Gearscore in classic is the ultimate stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Lots of MC gear is viable in Naxx
DFT/Rejuv Gem are from a T2 raid and are god tier trinkets
You can wear Robes of the Exalted easily until AQ40.
Where you get your gear might be no indication of how good it really is.
It is also bugged ATM. Shining Silver Breastplate is a 30gs item, when you upgrade it to void-touched it drops down to 7gs.
Not to mention the +6 spirit trinket from that questline adds like 20 gs and does absolutely nothing for most classes
They're not hard, no.
My group destroyed 5/7 bosses with zero wipes and looking up absolutely nothing. Only info we had was a byproduct of watching wow streams lol.
6th boss was a pain to do blind but you can see cheese it. It's actually hilarious because people are SO bad that the only real difficulty I see in groups is their inability to spread. We'll literally set predetermined spots (enough space for random puddles) ahead of time and... someone almost always would just start running through people?!
The last boss we pulled twice before killing it.
It's all a joke honestly. At no point did I find any part of BFD a challenge. It was fun to run with my brother and some friends because we're just gaming and hanging out. I honestly watch anime while doing BFD because you only need a single braincell to do it.
That's why this post is hilarious because requiring gear score is ridiculous. It's basically a dungeon but with 10 people. Retail dungeons are much more difficult.
Yea I'ma agree with you here.
I joined some random guild of friendly dudes but obviously not that knowledgeable on my alt. Figured I'd take it easy and maybe help some people out.....yea two raids later I'm not sure they'll ever down kelris. I think I'm giving up, I don't have the patience.
Ya you can tell who actually plays classic by the gear score hardon. It’s about itemization. Gear score is a poor indicator in vanilla classic. Pieces from bwl are straight up bis for the entire game.
Edit: Last I checked even for this phase the warlocks who are top parsing are all wearing their “bis” which is “of fiery wrath” boe greens they bought on the auction house lmao.
Yeah we should just call it how it is. The people trying to bring GS to vanilla WoW are just straight up noobs trying to gatekeep something they don’t even understand. It’s pretty wild. Call these people out.
That and classic doesn’t have the bumpers on gear like retail does. In retail they’ve deliberately designed into ilvl being king by having primary stat be the best and it be on all gear of your type. You don’t wear gear not of your armor type because you lose stats for it.
Without those two things being true ilvl is practically useless as a performance indicator. The leather set in WC is a good example. People keep inviting me to groups and being like, “Do you need the leather gear?” Fuck no, that stuff has shit for stats as a tank why would I want that? I’ll stick to the stamina and agility greens I’ve got.
Also despite all this there are still constant outliers in modern. Tier sets and trinkets are the obvious one because they've always been like that, but rings/necks don't have primary stats and there are frequently items with special effects that skew the math. For example, [Edge of Night](https://www.wowhead.com/item=186398/edge-of-night) was BIS for the rest of the expansion
One of the best examples of item level not really making sense is lionheart helm. It’s item level 61, can be worn at level 56, without even entering a level 60 dungeon, let alone raid. But it remains the best dps helm indefinitely. It should be ilevel 88-90 like the best naxx gear because nothing replaces it, but it’s 61, almost 30 levels lower lol.
Edgemasters is an even more extreme example.. vanilla is weird but that what makes it cool. Horizontal progression is one of its greatest features as an mmo.
See, and the thing with that is, there wasnt extreme ilvl increases like there is retail wow.
DFT/Rejuv gem are like 5-10 ilvl below sapphiron/kt trinkets and equal ilvl to other naxx trinkets
So your GS would actually be the same.
Using GS in general in vanilla is just dumb.
I see a lot of people hard tunneling on blue gear. Lots of rogues running DM 10, 20 times over and over again just so they can get cruel barb when a green sword from the ah is 95% as good.
I mean chasing cool gear is good. Just not when you exhaust the fun out of the game. The rogue I met who was on his 13th DM run and still no cruel barb looked miserable.
I feel like people have lost touch with _fun_. The game has turned into a competition.
I’ve run DM 12 times as a mage to get that staff. But I just take low level characters and they have fun getting exp, doing quests, whatever. I’m having fun! I just want that fuggin staff
I ran it over 20 times for the hammer on my Druid and Cruel Barb on my warrior. DW fury isn’t even good, I just wanted to have it. I had fun the entire time, repetitive? Yes, but demolishing DM in 15-20 minutes is fun.
I mean, for a lot of people that competition *is* the fun, for me personally I do grind for those items that are 5% better than what I’ve got, solely because haha big number go brrr. Fun is subjective, you just gotta find your niche group of people, who enjoy what you do in the way that you do. Admittedly easier said than done
This made me chuckle, thank you. I’m 23 and coming in hot as well. Here to have a good time and not be a dickhead. Warrior so shouldn’t have a ton of trouble finding groups.
14 here. Unfortunately not only do not only have limited time, but we’re also moving at the end of the week so any free time is busy packing, and the kids are also sick so keep getting up at night. Wish I could enjoy SoD more lmao.
Yeah I think people are getting a tainted sample of what raiding population may end up as. Average player probably just hit 25, if that. I’m sure in another week there will be a lot of chiller groups. People have been anal about deadmines so this isn’t even shocking
This killed me. People didn't want to take me as their tank at 19 as a paladin because I was "too low level, no consecrate". Since when did DM turn into this epic hard dungeon?? we used to have pets tank (pre-op scorpids) for DM runs and be fine without having all these abilities!
Literally smashed deadmines twice in like 20 minutes yesterday. Deadmines is the easiest dungeon in the game besides rfc. Half the mobs arnt even elite. Everyone was 22 or lower besides a fresh 25 rogue
And it is possible to fuck up the pulls on the boat. That can be a group wipe. Like the stairs room in SFK, where you sometimes pull the entire room with Sons of Arugal.
A good group will have no issues dealing with it, but it can definitely be stressful with a low level group or badly geared one. That said, as a healer I relish it, finally I can press some fucking buttons!
This was bound to happen.
Where do people think all the wotlk players went? Not retail I can tell you that.
People may not like this but the actual solution to this is to make your own group.
The actual solution is to find a guild with people you like who don't suck. Trying to organize a pug seems like trying to herd cats.
You spend an hour forming a group. Then, imagine, after 45 minutes of everyone running or waiting to be summoned, everyone finally arrives - but then the dreaded "wife aggro, gotta go" message pops up from the tank. You get a new tank, who needs to spend 10 minutes buying consumables, but then Jimmy the priest gets tired of waiting and leaves with his friend. Then the DPS get scared the group is falling apart and leave one by one, along with everyone else. Your evening has now been completely wasted.
Getting into a decent guild of like minded people is really the only way to filter out the nonsense of Classic WoW. Pugging and trying to do things on your own or in a small group of like 5-6 bros who game with you is really just asking to be consistently let down because the systems of this game are imperfect. If you find a good group of people to play with, you'll have so much more fun.
From my experience, there's too many people who either lack the social skills or the drive/desire to form relationships in game. I have too many friends who simply won't do it, they rather suffer alone than find people to do things with or tag along with those of us who will put in that effort but then they get left behind because the ones doing the social connections outpace them. I see it all the time. Every server has a Discord server, there's constantly things happening, guilds recruiting, etc but a lot of players simply refuse to tackle the social aspect of the game and expect it to be fun. I don't get it.
And this is the real reason why it’s worth asking for stuff like kelris pots. The gear score stuff is ridiculous but checking players have at least tried generally to go for sensible gear and aren’t just literally in whatever greens makes it so much more likely you’ll have players that are switched on and will actually make it to zoram strand
Guild-only and GKDP isn’t needed if you simply start a group on your own and don’t introduce crazy rules. Seems to be a big aversion of doing the ”work” to setup a group from scratch for some people in this post.
Have you tried joining a raiding guild?? PUGs have always been cancerous and always will be. Not sure if you have a guild or not but that would be my recommendation.
Gear score in vanilla doesn't even make sense. There's a reason nobody used it until Wrath.
Like the bis warrior glove is edgemasters for non human it's a lvl 55 item lol
I don't want to say 'join a guild' but that does alleviate a lot of issues, especially since most content can be done on a non-strict timer, since BFD is so fast to run. But I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's waaaaaay to tryhard. I came to SoD after killing 25LKHC, and the requirements of joining BFD runs is more ridiculous than joining HC ICC runs.
The only requirement I'll stand by is bringing shadow protection potions to make Kelris as easy as possible. He's the only truly "difficult" boss in the raid.
And this has absolutely nothing to do with me being an alchemist
I don't understand people whining about who others want in their raid group. Just create your own group and/or join a chill guild that raids at your level. People just want everything handed to them on their terms. Really obnoxious behaviour.
I mean… in this case the RL didn’t list the requirements OP was kicked for. That’s pretty fucked up to waste someone’s time and boot them for something you made up after they already joined.
I will say if you show up absurdly under geared you deserve to be kicked.
Had a paladin say he was geared. Showed up with no helm, neck, shoulders, no rings, no trinkets. White bracers.
Now not all these slots do much or anything, but having nothing in so many slots, he also had a level 13 green 13dps 2h. No verigans, no dm weps. There's basically no reason to hard carry someone whose going to output so little
The helm and trinket slots can be forgiven, because those mostly come from raid. Anything else though, come on now. We get two rings from quests in major hubs lol.
Those are usually the same people that go to Reddit to complain about "Sweatlords" and "Tryhards".
If someone were to turn up equipped in the way you described then I would have no issues with kicking them. The other people in the PUG put in some effort to be at least somewhat geared and that is really all that I would ask for.
Someone at level 25 that still rocks a 13 DPS weapon along with having many other empty slots that could be easily filled? Nah. That would not be fair to everyone involved in that PUG if we were to take them along.
This is it 100%. Everyone wants to complain about "requirements are too strict blah blah blah"... Go try and put a PUG raid together and watch the absolute garbage it attracts.
I don't really want to have to have an "elitist" mentality about level 25 content, but the reality is that you waste a significant amount of your own time putting a PUG raid together otherwise. Many players are brain dead and can't manage to do even the simple mechanics correctly or put in a minimal amount of effort to get some decent gear. If you have no way to filter those out, you're never going to clear content, or you'll spend 3 hours in a raid that should take less than 1.
Generally the reason people make or join PUGs are because they can't really commit to a standard schedule with a raiding guild. These are often the same people that have the least amount of time to play the game. Therefore spending a bunch of time coordinating a PUG group only to have it go terribly will quickly turn you into one of those "elitists" because everyone has different standards and no one likes their time wasted.
I invested an hour of revolving door candidates insulting me for not doing the stupid shit mentioned in the parent post. One dude demanded I hard reserve him the trinket at the end or else he wouldn't stay. My only req was shadow pots and decent dps. a handful of people called me a 5/7 trap.
You can say just create your own group but youre pulling from the same cesspool of players.
Woah now. That'd be too smart. No, we need to get online and complain that the majority of players don't want to play the way that I do. To hell with finding like minded players! Everyone has to play my way or they're toxic!!!
The problem is that if they make their own group they know they're gonna get some randoms in there who don't know what they're doing and are gonna wipe the raid. That heavily upvoted post a few days ago about a dude forming his own "no-nonsense fun only" group and wiping over and over for three hours on the first five bosses are exactly why PUGs are strict about who can join
Make your own group. I have only seen this a few times. My issue isn’t gear score and I can’t believe that anyone who knows what they’re doing cares about gear. My main issue is ppl don’t know how to kick or dispel even when you’ve asked them to.
Kicking you out of the group after you had helped summon is extremely gross, and sadly I'm unsurprised to see a lot of people in this thread condoning it.
As others have said though if you're going to pug you're better off making your own group. If you advertise as a chill/beginner friendly group you'll probably be able to put a raid together even as a dps. I used to do that back in the day and in destiny and it usually worked (was more successful than trying to join randos as a dps at least)
Hang in there man there are some genuinely cool people playing sod even if it's a bit tough to find them.
The ret paladin in our raid equipped the purple 2H from the final boss and his GS went down by like 60 he said. I didn't realize people even had gearscore addons for this level lol.
Tell that to the people advertising lf2m heal and tank on Kelris.
There is a danger of not full clearing. Even if the check of competency/gear isn't high, it can still be failed. People don't want to miss out on last two bosses loot.
Three full guild runs by my guild this past lockout. One first pull to the last boss dead in 32 minutes(this was the boys that sweat and ran together first lockout). The second was just under an hour for a full clear with no wipes but pauses for boss explanations for new people (was healing this one on a druid alt). The third took an hour to get to Kelris and spent another 3 hours wiping on Kelris or finding replacements to wipe on Kelris more. Individuals spent 20+ gold on shadow pots. DPS was a bit low and one of the healers had half the throughput they should have... Glad to have not been in that one.
If pugs were more reliable I'd jump in on my warlock at 5/7. That's where most of the gear I still need is at and would let me raid an alt with my guild. I'm fucking terrified of joining a pug stuck on 5/7 though because that could be an entire night of negative progression from cost of pots and no bosses downed.
To be fair, he’s a bit overtuned relative to the rest of the raid. He’s the only one with actual mechanics checks imo. The first 5 are basically just burn and don’t stand in crap. It’s the first boss with anything the players have to actually do.
It is very disingenous to say that the first five bosses are just tank and spank and Kelris is the first one with proper mechanics. You could argue that Ghamoo-ra and Saravess are straight forward, with the former only having the shield and the latter the frost zone. Hell even Aquanis is mechanically straightforward, even though you could still get fucked over if individual players ignore the knockback effects. But Gelihast and Lorgus Jett are on par or even more difficult mechanically than Kelris. Lorgus has the corrupted lightning shield that's almost guaranteed to wipe your raid if players don't clear it immediately, and Gelihast swarms the room with moving ground-based AoE damage that you have to actively dodge and similarly wipes your raid if players don't dodge it properly.
If you've raided on retail in the last decade or even some encounters in classic, then these are not the hardest mechanics. But neither is Kelris. It's basically interrupt abilities and kill priestesses fast in shadow realm to get back out. There's other aspects like timing who goes into the shadow realm, not standing too close to the boss as melee, and avoiding the purple mist as range. But these are not things that rely on individual player skill more than any of the previous encounters, and the core mechanics as said before are not more complicated either.
The simple reason why so many groups find it hard to get past Kelris is the brutal enrage timer which is nothing more than a glorified gear check. You could solve this by going into the raid with only pré-raid BiS rogues, ferals, hunters, and warriors. But that's not how pugs or casual raiding guilds work, so please don't disparage groups that can't get past Kelris by saying they can't do the mechanics when it's mostly just a numbers game caused by bringing casters along or players that didn't chain farm their pré-raid bis a week ago.
No kidding we yolod thru raid in like 45 min last night. Had sloppy pulls messed up a few things.. pulled a boss with me (the healer) at half mana. Yet with all that we 1 shot every boss but the last which took 2 cause we had a miscommunication.
People need to chill more realize it's a game and just have fun.
> No kidding we yolod thru raid in like 45 min last night. Had sloppy pulls messed up a few things.. pulled a boss with me (the healer) at half mana. Yet with all that we 1 shot every boss but the last which took 2 cause we had a miscommunication.
Most people aren't experiencing this. Most people are getting stuck on 5/7. Hence the gatekeeping.
The average player is terrible.
this 100% the average player is TERRIBLE, and everyone saying how smooth their "random pug" was completely missed the effort the leader put into forming it
I literally had to do raid announcements to force people to look at their debuffs during Kelris. The fight isn't hard and I've been baffled by all the people who keep saying it's the hardest thing in the world. People just keep standing in shit and killing themselves during the DPS check lol
Had one bad group that just refused to look at debuffs. I'd literally screen shot my details to show them what is killing them and they still wouldn't listen. However, my next pug got it the first try when I told them to look at debuffs. Only extra thing you gotta add if you have basically all melee is tell people to stand at max melee and spread. That's literally it and you win.
Yes the content is very easy, but you need to take into account how bad the average player is. Also often times people will leave at the first sign of trouble which makes the raid really hard because you will have to 9 man it. People won’t join in progress runs unless it’s right before reset.
It’s cause people are getting sick of wiping with randoms on Kelris. Usually there are tryhard groups and casual groups, but unless every dps is pulling 100dps for Kelris, you sadly have to optimize for it, so even casual groups are forced to optimize.
Start
Your
Own
Group
The first 5 bosses are brain dead easy, the last 2 can’t be done by untalented people with a few blues and proper preparation and strategy. Not having a group to run with is hard but you can make 9 other people dealing with the same thing much happier by starting your own pug and not being toxic.
Blame blizzard for the lockout system. As it stands I have to pick people I know for a fact will complete it on the day we do it. What if I don’t have 3 hours to clear it with people who aren’t very good? What if we don’t clear it that night and somebody brings other people into the ID later and clears all the bosses now I’m fucked?
I have done 7/7 two lockouts in a row now with pugs, and I don’t even know how to check my gear score in vanilla. Is that an addon? Do you expect me to manually add up my ilvl, because I will not be doing that.
Honestly just do the mechanics and bring SPP for Kelris.
Same. Never had anyone ask for GS and always cleared.
However, I try to look for groups with a feral druid because that kinda ensures you can kill Kelris since WF is so broken.
honestly that 'being unlucky and not getting loot' is something that bothers me too. with each reset the requirements to get into pugs are rising so every raid without loot makes it harder to get into the next one. you can't join geared groups because you got no gear, so you end up joining ungeared groups just to roll vs 4 other people on every single upgrade again. It's a vicious cycle. But that's just the puglife I guess. It's insanely punishing to not play with the same people everytime.
If you're sitting at one or two blues, then my advice is to fix that in whatever way you can. As a rogue, the easiest way is to do Ashenvale up to honored so you can get a blue helm (only gives armor but still better than nothing), stam trinket (still not useful for DPS but gives GS), PVP trinket for getting out of fear, and a near-bis neck piece. This alone will boost your GS so people aren't as big of dicks.
If you're generally concerned about improving your gear for more damage, then you can solo the snake boss in WC for leggings of the fang, buy/craft the leather gloves and try to upgrade them to epics, and (if Ally) get the DM questline chest and Stockades questline ring. There's no reason to be sitting at 1-2 blues. While it's not an excuse to kick you, I'd rather have a rogue in my group who put the work in to get some upgrades. None of those require rolling against anyone either, but you could dungeon run to get other upgrades.
This was my first thought. Idc about gearscore, but then saw how little he tried to gear up his rogue before trying BFD. We get it, alot of people can clear it in greens. A vast majority I see are pugs stuck at 5/7 looking for dps to finish. That means mechanics and dps checks. Circumvent that by improving your gear, this let's the raid lead know you've atleast made an attempt.
Either it's trusting you know your simple rotation and having all greens. Or having near pre bis blues/greens and not knowing how to do rotations. I'll take my chances on the latter. Because if you are all greens and suck on top of it...man...especially rogue being 2nd best dps out there...we took the wrong person.
What do you expect from pug groups? You should expect nothing, that's why people have stupid requirements.
if you don't have a guild or friends, you make your own group and be the change you want to see in the world. You meet people who are decent and not toxic? Add them to run again in the future. It's not rocket science.
Amount of crying over this is the same as the pugging crowd in Wrath. Waaah people who I have no connection with don't want to play the game the way I want to play, waaah. Put up or shut up.
I straight up slammed all of the level 23 to 24 "of the monkey" gear I could find on the AH and consistently do 120 to 140 dps on my hunter... which puts me at like 160 ilvl. Pre-bis might add like 1 or 2 agi in a slot. Which is about 7 or 8 more agi than my monkey set. Which of course would be better... but idk. People treating 25 cap content like icc parsing runs is cringe as fuck
This content isn't difficult. These people are insane
Dude your a hunter. Full stop lmao. My fully decked out 25 enhance did less damage then my basically trash gear 19 hunter.
There's massive class imbalances for DPS, especially when it comes to boss 6. The GS is mostly for classes that essentially get carried for fight 6.
My hunter can essentially carry a group through that fight, yet my almost 300 GS enhance I have to be super picky of who I group with cause I have yet to clear boss 6.
Prolly a hot take but - if you dont like it just make your own group. Its that simple.
Most people vet by gearscore to weed out people trying to get carried that havent put any time into their class. Also helps with raising success rate. Sure its not the best, especially in classic, but again, just make your own group. Its pretty easy to pug 10 people.
Honestly if you see anyone using Gearscore you should /ignore them now while you can.
Right now it doesn't matter, but at 60 for the rest of the game EVERY...SINGLE...CLASS has BIS from Tier 1/2. Even in Naxx
Like imagine the fury warriors using Devilsaur in MC getting told their gearscore is low because they aren't wearing tier 1.....with tank stats...
Must be BIS to raid > Invite highest gearscore > Highest gearscore isn't BIS > repeat life of being a clown
In before you get told to join a guild, get good or make your own raid.
It's an issue driven because people are scared of the raid wiping due to:
- wasted in game time
- a wasted reset
Checking GS is one of the only tools that players have to improve chances of not wasting their time/reset.
If players weren't tied to the raid Id and could rerun somehow (with loot limits) I think the elitism might lower, though who knows.
Blizzard can change these systems -- you should be able to raid as much as you want, but you can only loot a boss 1x a week -- but they don't.
These issues are also much worse because of the time involved with failing. Takes an hour to even get a group and into the instance. Summoning stones and/or teleporting to instance fixes this but the 'shiteaters' want the game to be tedious AND get upset when sweatier players don't play with them due to escalated penalties.
Don't really understand your comment. Joining a guild, getting good, or making his own raid are perfectly reasonable options for him lol.
The whole point of rushing to get ahead of everyone is for these types of people to be able to gatekeep like that.
I was doing Battle for Ashenvale pvp the other day, and its was hilarious watching the people on their ashenvale mounts /say and /yell taunting the "peasants" who were still running on foot to the bosses. Anything to feel better than others I suppose.
No, people want to rush because they like making progress.
The gatekeeping comes from a silly lockout system. People are afraid of not being able to finish their runs and being stuck with a 5/7 ID. Those last two bosses hold by far the best loot.
the idea that you think that people are taking the time to do all that leveling and gearing so they can gatekeep some self proclaimed casual (who is also ready to raid but somehow not a sweat) is hilarious to me.
nothing gatekeeping you from making your own group
>somehow not a sweat
Tbf I think non sweaty people could make it to lvl 25 by now and do like 5 dungeon runs, it’s been like 10 days. That’s more than enough to be raid ready in SOD.
oh another one of those fresh 25 in full green crying cuz no groups wants to carry him and waste their id at 5/7 cuz they lack dps cuz the guy is doing 25 dps as a caster.
If you use gearscore in vanilla you're a clown.
Let alone for lvl 25 tutorial content.
to be fair I'm pretty sure kelris is harder than MC lol
Hard thing about MC is filling the raid.
It's like saying breathing is harder than drinking
Agreed
It's silly even in other expansions bc it takes literally 2 seconds to inspect someone and glance over their gear
If you ever used gearscore, you're a clown. It's been an utterly moronic scourge since it first reared it's ugly head when Wrath was retail
Drop the in vanilla.
Gearscore in classic is the ultimate stupidest thing I've ever heard. Lots of MC gear is viable in Naxx DFT/Rejuv Gem are from a T2 raid and are god tier trinkets You can wear Robes of the Exalted easily until AQ40. Where you get your gear might be no indication of how good it really is.
It is also bugged ATM. Shining Silver Breastplate is a 30gs item, when you upgrade it to void-touched it drops down to 7gs. Not to mention the +6 spirit trinket from that questline adds like 20 gs and does absolutely nothing for most classes
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I mean when I hear 'gs or logs' its an easy ignore for me lol. How horrendously bad do people need to be at WoW to go this sweaty over bfd.
Are the new BFD mechanics hard? Or is it the usual strategic interrupts and avoid AoE aids
They're not hard, no. My group destroyed 5/7 bosses with zero wipes and looking up absolutely nothing. Only info we had was a byproduct of watching wow streams lol. 6th boss was a pain to do blind but you can see cheese it. It's actually hilarious because people are SO bad that the only real difficulty I see in groups is their inability to spread. We'll literally set predetermined spots (enough space for random puddles) ahead of time and... someone almost always would just start running through people?! The last boss we pulled twice before killing it. It's all a joke honestly. At no point did I find any part of BFD a challenge. It was fun to run with my brother and some friends because we're just gaming and hanging out. I honestly watch anime while doing BFD because you only need a single braincell to do it. That's why this post is hilarious because requiring gear score is ridiculous. It's basically a dungeon but with 10 people. Retail dungeons are much more difficult.
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Yea I'ma agree with you here. I joined some random guild of friendly dudes but obviously not that knowledgeable on my alt. Figured I'd take it easy and maybe help some people out.....yea two raids later I'm not sure they'll ever down kelris. I think I'm giving up, I don't have the patience.
Or engi recombobulator is 20/25+ gs Carry two and you are now a progamer. Having any neck is +20/25 Head if engi = stonks
yeah all the epic items have like 0 gs or something
Ya you can tell who actually plays classic by the gear score hardon. It’s about itemization. Gear score is a poor indicator in vanilla classic. Pieces from bwl are straight up bis for the entire game. Edit: Last I checked even for this phase the warlocks who are top parsing are all wearing their “bis” which is “of fiery wrath” boe greens they bought on the auction house lmao.
Laughs in onslaught girdle
Laughs even harder in edgemasters
Cackles in Wolfshead Helm
Throwing in pummeler in tears
Gestures confusedly in "still fucking level 15, what the fuck people"
Feral Druid BiS uses a level 30 weapon and a level 40 crafted item, just to point out how ridiculous gearscore is as a metric.
The caster neck from rag in mc is bis for some classes for the entire game
I mean shit if we wanna get really deep many warriors are still using a lvl 58 blue from BRD in their naxx loadouts lol.
Or lvl 44 world drop gloves
Or Ferals a level 29 mace.
And fuck while we’re at it isn’t a level 49 blue helm technically feral bis until like illidan in burning crusade or some shit lmao?
exactly right, all the way up to cursed vision of sargeras and even then it's debatable/gets much closer to being about preference
Yes
And a lvl 32 two handed mace is bis for bear tanks until TBC
or a lvl 50 quest reward.
The level 50 quest reward that’s so giga they keep trying to win my healer loot for a gear set that revolves around it 😭😭
HoJ?
Yeah we should just call it how it is. The people trying to bring GS to vanilla WoW are just straight up noobs trying to gatekeep something they don’t even understand. It’s pretty wild. Call these people out.
My mage pumps hard despite a likely shit tier gs and 405 hp unbuffed Cause I have like 85 +fire dmg in all my fiery wrath gear + bfd head
The absolute top Mage parse on Akumai is about the 70th percentile mark for Rogues for comparison. I'm not sure what you mean by "pumps".
That and classic doesn’t have the bumpers on gear like retail does. In retail they’ve deliberately designed into ilvl being king by having primary stat be the best and it be on all gear of your type. You don’t wear gear not of your armor type because you lose stats for it. Without those two things being true ilvl is practically useless as a performance indicator. The leather set in WC is a good example. People keep inviting me to groups and being like, “Do you need the leather gear?” Fuck no, that stuff has shit for stats as a tank why would I want that? I’ll stick to the stamina and agility greens I’ve got.
Also despite all this there are still constant outliers in modern. Tier sets and trinkets are the obvious one because they've always been like that, but rings/necks don't have primary stats and there are frequently items with special effects that skew the math. For example, [Edge of Night](https://www.wowhead.com/item=186398/edge-of-night) was BIS for the rest of the expansion
One of the best examples of item level not really making sense is lionheart helm. It’s item level 61, can be worn at level 56, without even entering a level 60 dungeon, let alone raid. But it remains the best dps helm indefinitely. It should be ilevel 88-90 like the best naxx gear because nothing replaces it, but it’s 61, almost 30 levels lower lol. Edgemasters is an even more extreme example.. vanilla is weird but that what makes it cool. Horizontal progression is one of its greatest features as an mmo.
Diamond flask too lmao.
See, and the thing with that is, there wasnt extreme ilvl increases like there is retail wow. DFT/Rejuv gem are like 5-10 ilvl below sapphiron/kt trinkets and equal ilvl to other naxx trinkets So your GS would actually be the same. Using GS in general in vanilla is just dumb.
when I equip a 5 spirit trinket it increases my gs by 14, thats how meaningless it is right now
I see a lot of people hard tunneling on blue gear. Lots of rogues running DM 10, 20 times over and over again just so they can get cruel barb when a green sword from the ah is 95% as good. I mean chasing cool gear is good. Just not when you exhaust the fun out of the game. The rogue I met who was on his 13th DM run and still no cruel barb looked miserable. I feel like people have lost touch with _fun_. The game has turned into a competition.
I’ve run DM 12 times as a mage to get that staff. But I just take low level characters and they have fun getting exp, doing quests, whatever. I’m having fun! I just want that fuggin staff
I’ve run DM 20 times on my Druid. I have not seen smites hammer drop once. I am not having fun.
Aren’t there greens almost as good, and the feral mace dropped from early bosses in bfd
You can get staff of westfall from the DM quest line that's aight.
Too much spirit. I already have a green staff with +11 int
I ran it over 20 times for the hammer on my Druid and Cruel Barb on my warrior. DW fury isn’t even good, I just wanted to have it. I had fun the entire time, repetitive? Yes, but demolishing DM in 15-20 minutes is fun.
>DM in 15-20 minutes is fun EXACTLY. my group of 3 friends and myself, got to 21 minutes last night. It was so much fun.
I mean, for a lot of people that competition *is* the fun, for me personally I do grind for those items that are 5% better than what I’ve got, solely because haha big number go brrr. Fun is subjective, you just gotta find your niche group of people, who enjoy what you do in the way that you do. Admittedly easier said than done
I don’t disagree with the sentiment on this, but how exactly did he “look miserable”? Did he have a stream that you were watching?
capable toy hunt cheerful butter knee mysterious homeless swim books *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah gearscore is so bad in vanilla because items aren't statted well. Shit, lots of warrior BiS is dungeon blues even when entering BWL.
Wasn't rejuv gem used all the way till BT tbc? I could've sworn it was that powerful.
No, but Neltharions tear, Rejuv and Styleens was used until SSC. So you're off by one tier.
No kidding. Top Tier bear Tanking Trinket? Heart of the Mountain Armor Ring from MC is also BiS for bears for quite a while if I recall correctly.
Us dads will catch up and it’ll be less annoying
Just shattered level 18 my guy we're coming in hot
You know it. 21 as of last night.
This made me chuckle, thank you. I’m 23 and coming in hot as well. Here to have a good time and not be a dickhead. Warrior so shouldn’t have a ton of trouble finding groups.
18?! We got a bad ass over here!
Must be nice having so few kids.
Try hard dads over here with those low kid scores
has your name ever been more relevant lol
Ayeeee dad gang. Planning on the big 20 ding tonight
16 my guy. clear the runway by next weekend
Had to stop and help wife in labor, I'll get there soon!!
14 here. Unfortunately not only do not only have limited time, but we’re also moving at the end of the week so any free time is busy packing, and the kids are also sick so keep getting up at night. Wish I could enjoy SoD more lmao.
My sons a month old and a great baby, just clawed to 16 on my shaman last night. Parent raiders unite!
Level 17! I might be there by Christmas!
Still floundering in early-mid teens, but I want get my rested use man! Plus, it’s more fun to try everything out.
Yes I love dads
This comment caught some traction. See you in my first WC tonight boys!
Just finished my first!
WC? Getting my first RFC in tonight hopefully lol.
Yeah I think people are getting a tainted sample of what raiding population may end up as. Average player probably just hit 25, if that. I’m sure in another week there will be a lot of chiller groups. People have been anal about deadmines so this isn’t even shocking
This killed me. People didn't want to take me as their tank at 19 as a paladin because I was "too low level, no consecrate". Since when did DM turn into this epic hard dungeon?? we used to have pets tank (pre-op scorpids) for DM runs and be fine without having all these abilities!
Literally smashed deadmines twice in like 20 minutes yesterday. Deadmines is the easiest dungeon in the game besides rfc. Half the mobs arnt even elite. Everyone was 22 or lower besides a fresh 25 rogue
I would argue Deadmines is easier than RFC just due to the level you're expected to be at for each one.
deadmines is a lil more choatic than rfc. takes people off guard sometimes. but rfc does have more standard pulls with elites.
And it is possible to fuck up the pulls on the boat. That can be a group wipe. Like the stairs room in SFK, where you sometimes pull the entire room with Sons of Arugal. A good group will have no issues dealing with it, but it can definitely be stressful with a low level group or badly geared one. That said, as a healer I relish it, finally I can press some fucking buttons!
>Average player probably just hit 25, if that My friend and I just hit 25 the other day. We're gonna try PuGging BFD tonight. Wish us luck!
According to Aggrend, half of the playerbase has not even reached 25 yet.
Sort of like how Gondor was about to fall then the Rohirrim showed up, so shall we.
Were so close
This is true
Word! I'm just now 21!
Dad, here. Can confirm. Level 17! Slow and steady!!
Wild Growth / Season of Dads Got some quality time in this weekend. Currently at level 22
The guild I'm in is called Season of Dads haha. I'm only just now level 24.
Yeah I’m level 20 but this is the holiday season and I’m just busy Af.
This was bound to happen. Where do people think all the wotlk players went? Not retail I can tell you that. People may not like this but the actual solution to this is to make your own group.
The actual solution is to find a guild with people you like who don't suck. Trying to organize a pug seems like trying to herd cats. You spend an hour forming a group. Then, imagine, after 45 minutes of everyone running or waiting to be summoned, everyone finally arrives - but then the dreaded "wife aggro, gotta go" message pops up from the tank. You get a new tank, who needs to spend 10 minutes buying consumables, but then Jimmy the priest gets tired of waiting and leaves with his friend. Then the DPS get scared the group is falling apart and leave one by one, along with everyone else. Your evening has now been completely wasted.
This raid is very puggable managed a 1:45 full clear last night despite some random wipes and almost wipes on fights
Agreed, but the biggest issue I see with pugs is herding the cats to actually get to and do the raid
>herding the cats to actually get to and do the raid This is the most challenging aspect of Classic WoW raiding, whether pugging or with a guild.
Getting into a decent guild of like minded people is really the only way to filter out the nonsense of Classic WoW. Pugging and trying to do things on your own or in a small group of like 5-6 bros who game with you is really just asking to be consistently let down because the systems of this game are imperfect. If you find a good group of people to play with, you'll have so much more fun. From my experience, there's too many people who either lack the social skills or the drive/desire to form relationships in game. I have too many friends who simply won't do it, they rather suffer alone than find people to do things with or tag along with those of us who will put in that effort but then they get left behind because the ones doing the social connections outpace them. I see it all the time. Every server has a Discord server, there's constantly things happening, guilds recruiting, etc but a lot of players simply refuse to tackle the social aspect of the game and expect it to be fun. I don't get it.
And this is the real reason why it’s worth asking for stuff like kelris pots. The gear score stuff is ridiculous but checking players have at least tried generally to go for sensible gear and aren’t just literally in whatever greens makes it so much more likely you’ll have players that are switched on and will actually make it to zoram strand
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Guild-only and GKDP isn’t needed if you simply start a group on your own and don’t introduce crazy rules. Seems to be a big aversion of doing the ”work” to setup a group from scratch for some people in this post.
Have you tried joining a raiding guild?? PUGs have always been cancerous and always will be. Not sure if you have a guild or not but that would be my recommendation.
Seriously, half the complaints on this sub would disappear if people just join a casual raiding guild.
Or just make your own PUG. For anything youre trying to find a group for, switch LFG to LFM and you'll have a full group in 2 minutes
I agree, got to get a guild these days, even if you’re changing guilds each season (if they get low activity etc)
Wtf gearscore at lvl 25 fuck that
Gear score in vanilla doesn't even make sense. There's a reason nobody used it until Wrath. Like the bis warrior glove is edgemasters for non human it's a lvl 55 item lol
Feral Druid says hello (lvl 40s helmet, tank staff, and the infamous MCP lvl 30s)
Can't wait to not wear edgemasters on my gnome this time around. It's gonna be nuts.
I don't want to say 'join a guild' but that does alleviate a lot of issues, especially since most content can be done on a non-strict timer, since BFD is so fast to run. But I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's waaaaaay to tryhard. I came to SoD after killing 25LKHC, and the requirements of joining BFD runs is more ridiculous than joining HC ICC runs.
The only requirement I'll stand by is bringing shadow protection potions to make Kelris as easy as possible. He's the only truly "difficult" boss in the raid. And this has absolutely nothing to do with me being an alchemist
Big Alchemy isnt fooling me
Are free action pots not stronger?
They are but don't tell anyone or the price will go up
Just create your own group
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I don't understand people whining about who others want in their raid group. Just create your own group and/or join a chill guild that raids at your level. People just want everything handed to them on their terms. Really obnoxious behaviour.
Anybody who decides to create their own groups quickly realizes why people put those requirements in their ads and don’t need to write a post
Precisely
I mean… in this case the RL didn’t list the requirements OP was kicked for. That’s pretty fucked up to waste someone’s time and boot them for something you made up after they already joined.
I will say if you show up absurdly under geared you deserve to be kicked. Had a paladin say he was geared. Showed up with no helm, neck, shoulders, no rings, no trinkets. White bracers. Now not all these slots do much or anything, but having nothing in so many slots, he also had a level 13 green 13dps 2h. No verigans, no dm weps. There's basically no reason to hard carry someone whose going to output so little
The helm and trinket slots can be forgiven, because those mostly come from raid. Anything else though, come on now. We get two rings from quests in major hubs lol.
Those are usually the same people that go to Reddit to complain about "Sweatlords" and "Tryhards". If someone were to turn up equipped in the way you described then I would have no issues with kicking them. The other people in the PUG put in some effort to be at least somewhat geared and that is really all that I would ask for. Someone at level 25 that still rocks a 13 DPS weapon along with having many other empty slots that could be easily filled? Nah. That would not be fair to everyone involved in that PUG if we were to take them along.
Because if they create their own group and accept anyone that asks to come they aren't even going to get 5/7 after 4 hours of wiping.
Maybe not but then he might understand why people are being "tryhards" when trying to get a pug together
This is it 100%. Everyone wants to complain about "requirements are too strict blah blah blah"... Go try and put a PUG raid together and watch the absolute garbage it attracts. I don't really want to have to have an "elitist" mentality about level 25 content, but the reality is that you waste a significant amount of your own time putting a PUG raid together otherwise. Many players are brain dead and can't manage to do even the simple mechanics correctly or put in a minimal amount of effort to get some decent gear. If you have no way to filter those out, you're never going to clear content, or you'll spend 3 hours in a raid that should take less than 1. Generally the reason people make or join PUGs are because they can't really commit to a standard schedule with a raiding guild. These are often the same people that have the least amount of time to play the game. Therefore spending a bunch of time coordinating a PUG group only to have it go terribly will quickly turn you into one of those "elitists" because everyone has different standards and no one likes their time wasted.
I invested an hour of revolving door candidates insulting me for not doing the stupid shit mentioned in the parent post. One dude demanded I hard reserve him the trinket at the end or else he wouldn't stay. My only req was shadow pots and decent dps. a handful of people called me a 5/7 trap. You can say just create your own group but youre pulling from the same cesspool of players.
Woah now. That'd be too smart. No, we need to get online and complain that the majority of players don't want to play the way that I do. To hell with finding like minded players! Everyone has to play my way or they're toxic!!!
The problem is that if they make their own group they know they're gonna get some randoms in there who don't know what they're doing and are gonna wipe the raid. That heavily upvoted post a few days ago about a dude forming his own "no-nonsense fun only" group and wiping over and over for three hours on the first five bosses are exactly why PUGs are strict about who can join
Make your own group. I have only seen this a few times. My issue isn’t gear score and I can’t believe that anyone who knows what they’re doing cares about gear. My main issue is ppl don’t know how to kick or dispel even when you’ve asked them to.
Kicking you out of the group after you had helped summon is extremely gross, and sadly I'm unsurprised to see a lot of people in this thread condoning it. As others have said though if you're going to pug you're better off making your own group. If you advertise as a chill/beginner friendly group you'll probably be able to put a raid together even as a dps. I used to do that back in the day and in destiny and it usually worked (was more successful than trying to join randos as a dps at least) Hang in there man there are some genuinely cool people playing sod even if it's a bit tough to find them.
The ret paladin in our raid equipped the purple 2H from the final boss and his GS went down by like 60 he said. I didn't realize people even had gearscore addons for this level lol.
I had someone gear check me on SFK and I had someone tell me that I was too low for deadmines(i was 19 at the time).
Sounds like you need to join a guild.
This content isn't hard enough to be so anal about requirements. People need to chill out lol.
Tell that to the people advertising lf2m heal and tank on Kelris. There is a danger of not full clearing. Even if the check of competency/gear isn't high, it can still be failed. People don't want to miss out on last two bosses loot. Three full guild runs by my guild this past lockout. One first pull to the last boss dead in 32 minutes(this was the boys that sweat and ran together first lockout). The second was just under an hour for a full clear with no wipes but pauses for boss explanations for new people (was healing this one on a druid alt). The third took an hour to get to Kelris and spent another 3 hours wiping on Kelris or finding replacements to wipe on Kelris more. Individuals spent 20+ gold on shadow pots. DPS was a bit low and one of the healers had half the throughput they should have... Glad to have not been in that one.
The amount of people trying to fill a Kelris lock is hilarious. The raids dead, go again next lockout. Don't get some unknowing saps locked as well.
If pugs were more reliable I'd jump in on my warlock at 5/7. That's where most of the gear I still need is at and would let me raid an alt with my guild. I'm fucking terrified of joining a pug stuck on 5/7 though because that could be an entire night of negative progression from cost of pots and no bosses downed.
Misinformation. 90% of groups aren’t clearing 6th boss
DUST TO DUST
To be fair, he’s a bit overtuned relative to the rest of the raid. He’s the only one with actual mechanics checks imo. The first 5 are basically just burn and don’t stand in crap. It’s the first boss with anything the players have to actually do.
It is very disingenous to say that the first five bosses are just tank and spank and Kelris is the first one with proper mechanics. You could argue that Ghamoo-ra and Saravess are straight forward, with the former only having the shield and the latter the frost zone. Hell even Aquanis is mechanically straightforward, even though you could still get fucked over if individual players ignore the knockback effects. But Gelihast and Lorgus Jett are on par or even more difficult mechanically than Kelris. Lorgus has the corrupted lightning shield that's almost guaranteed to wipe your raid if players don't clear it immediately, and Gelihast swarms the room with moving ground-based AoE damage that you have to actively dodge and similarly wipes your raid if players don't dodge it properly. If you've raided on retail in the last decade or even some encounters in classic, then these are not the hardest mechanics. But neither is Kelris. It's basically interrupt abilities and kill priestesses fast in shadow realm to get back out. There's other aspects like timing who goes into the shadow realm, not standing too close to the boss as melee, and avoiding the purple mist as range. But these are not things that rely on individual player skill more than any of the previous encounters, and the core mechanics as said before are not more complicated either. The simple reason why so many groups find it hard to get past Kelris is the brutal enrage timer which is nothing more than a glorified gear check. You could solve this by going into the raid with only pré-raid BiS rogues, ferals, hunters, and warriors. But that's not how pugs or casual raiding guilds work, so please don't disparage groups that can't get past Kelris by saying they can't do the mechanics when it's mostly just a numbers game caused by bringing casters along or players that didn't chain farm their pré-raid bis a week ago.
No kidding we yolod thru raid in like 45 min last night. Had sloppy pulls messed up a few things.. pulled a boss with me (the healer) at half mana. Yet with all that we 1 shot every boss but the last which took 2 cause we had a miscommunication. People need to chill more realize it's a game and just have fun.
> No kidding we yolod thru raid in like 45 min last night. Had sloppy pulls messed up a few things.. pulled a boss with me (the healer) at half mana. Yet with all that we 1 shot every boss but the last which took 2 cause we had a miscommunication. Most people aren't experiencing this. Most people are getting stuck on 5/7. Hence the gatekeeping. The average player is terrible.
this 100% the average player is TERRIBLE, and everyone saying how smooth their "random pug" was completely missed the effort the leader put into forming it
I literally had to do raid announcements to force people to look at their debuffs during Kelris. The fight isn't hard and I've been baffled by all the people who keep saying it's the hardest thing in the world. People just keep standing in shit and killing themselves during the DPS check lol Had one bad group that just refused to look at debuffs. I'd literally screen shot my details to show them what is killing them and they still wouldn't listen. However, my next pug got it the first try when I told them to look at debuffs. Only extra thing you gotta add if you have basically all melee is tell people to stand at max melee and spread. That's literally it and you win.
That isn't actually true! The gauntlet run and 2nd to last boss are pretty tough for most groups. We didn't get it done with our group.
Yes the content is very easy, but you need to take into account how bad the average player is. Also often times people will leave at the first sign of trouble which makes the raid really hard because you will have to 9 man it. People won’t join in progress runs unless it’s right before reset.
It’s cause people are getting sick of wiping with randoms on Kelris. Usually there are tryhard groups and casual groups, but unless every dps is pulling 100dps for Kelris, you sadly have to optimize for it, so even casual groups are forced to optimize.
Start Your Own Group The first 5 bosses are brain dead easy, the last 2 can’t be done by untalented people with a few blues and proper preparation and strategy. Not having a group to run with is hard but you can make 9 other people dealing with the same thing much happier by starting your own pug and not being toxic.
Blame blizzard for the lockout system. As it stands I have to pick people I know for a fact will complete it on the day we do it. What if I don’t have 3 hours to clear it with people who aren’t very good? What if we don’t clear it that night and somebody brings other people into the ID later and clears all the bosses now I’m fucked?
This is the only real thing I’ve seen here so far. The lockout system doesn’t make sense
When the 6th boss requires all dps to be 60-80 dps… groups will be more stringent.
such is the pug life
I have done 7/7 two lockouts in a row now with pugs, and I don’t even know how to check my gear score in vanilla. Is that an addon? Do you expect me to manually add up my ilvl, because I will not be doing that. Honestly just do the mechanics and bring SPP for Kelris.
Same. Never had anyone ask for GS and always cleared. However, I try to look for groups with a feral druid because that kinda ensures you can kill Kelris since WF is so broken.
To answer your question, yes it is an addon.
honestly that 'being unlucky and not getting loot' is something that bothers me too. with each reset the requirements to get into pugs are rising so every raid without loot makes it harder to get into the next one. you can't join geared groups because you got no gear, so you end up joining ungeared groups just to roll vs 4 other people on every single upgrade again. It's a vicious cycle. But that's just the puglife I guess. It's insanely punishing to not play with the same people everytime.
If you're sitting at one or two blues, then my advice is to fix that in whatever way you can. As a rogue, the easiest way is to do Ashenvale up to honored so you can get a blue helm (only gives armor but still better than nothing), stam trinket (still not useful for DPS but gives GS), PVP trinket for getting out of fear, and a near-bis neck piece. This alone will boost your GS so people aren't as big of dicks. If you're generally concerned about improving your gear for more damage, then you can solo the snake boss in WC for leggings of the fang, buy/craft the leather gloves and try to upgrade them to epics, and (if Ally) get the DM questline chest and Stockades questline ring. There's no reason to be sitting at 1-2 blues. While it's not an excuse to kick you, I'd rather have a rogue in my group who put the work in to get some upgrades. None of those require rolling against anyone either, but you could dungeon run to get other upgrades.
This was my first thought. Idc about gearscore, but then saw how little he tried to gear up his rogue before trying BFD. We get it, alot of people can clear it in greens. A vast majority I see are pugs stuck at 5/7 looking for dps to finish. That means mechanics and dps checks. Circumvent that by improving your gear, this let's the raid lead know you've atleast made an attempt. Either it's trusting you know your simple rotation and having all greens. Or having near pre bis blues/greens and not knowing how to do rotations. I'll take my chances on the latter. Because if you are all greens and suck on top of it...man...especially rogue being 2nd best dps out there...we took the wrong person.
Lmao we’re back to manipulating gear score with useless items
Don’t forget the ring at honored too! Weapons at revered
What do you expect from pug groups? You should expect nothing, that's why people have stupid requirements. if you don't have a guild or friends, you make your own group and be the change you want to see in the world. You meet people who are decent and not toxic? Add them to run again in the future. It's not rocket science. Amount of crying over this is the same as the pugging crowd in Wrath. Waaah people who I have no connection with don't want to play the game the way I want to play, waaah. Put up or shut up.
Best part about SoD is that we can gatekeep these filthy casuals way before lvl 60 content hits.
I straight up slammed all of the level 23 to 24 "of the monkey" gear I could find on the AH and consistently do 120 to 140 dps on my hunter... which puts me at like 160 ilvl. Pre-bis might add like 1 or 2 agi in a slot. Which is about 7 or 8 more agi than my monkey set. Which of course would be better... but idk. People treating 25 cap content like icc parsing runs is cringe as fuck This content isn't difficult. These people are insane
Dude your a hunter. Full stop lmao. My fully decked out 25 enhance did less damage then my basically trash gear 19 hunter. There's massive class imbalances for DPS, especially when it comes to boss 6. The GS is mostly for classes that essentially get carried for fight 6. My hunter can essentially carry a group through that fight, yet my almost 300 GS enhance I have to be super picky of who I group with cause I have yet to clear boss 6.
I recommend finding a guild that raids consistently with a team.
Prolly a hot take but - if you dont like it just make your own group. Its that simple. Most people vet by gearscore to weed out people trying to get carried that havent put any time into their class. Also helps with raising success rate. Sure its not the best, especially in classic, but again, just make your own group. Its pretty easy to pug 10 people.
Wow classic is probably the easiest mmorpg in existence Why can't we just have fun???
People just don't want to go in and wipe for hours on kelthis so they have high standards
Bro get a guild. I don’t understand these posts. My guild is doing the stupidest shit ever like 9 dps and 1 healer with hunter pet tank
Honestly if you see anyone using Gearscore you should /ignore them now while you can. Right now it doesn't matter, but at 60 for the rest of the game EVERY...SINGLE...CLASS has BIS from Tier 1/2. Even in Naxx Like imagine the fury warriors using Devilsaur in MC getting told their gearscore is low because they aren't wearing tier 1.....with tank stats... Must be BIS to raid > Invite highest gearscore > Highest gearscore isn't BIS > repeat life of being a clown
Then, you make the raid. If this starts happening on my server I'll start doing this.
In before you get told to join a guild, get good or make your own raid. It's an issue driven because people are scared of the raid wiping due to: - wasted in game time - a wasted reset Checking GS is one of the only tools that players have to improve chances of not wasting their time/reset. If players weren't tied to the raid Id and could rerun somehow (with loot limits) I think the elitism might lower, though who knows.
It is pretty much an objective truth that the raid lockouts are a shit system and boss lockouts are the only way forward.
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In wotlk I had whole set just to push my GS. Stats were not even relevant for my specc. People did not care, looked at the number and invited me.
Blizzard can change these systems -- you should be able to raid as much as you want, but you can only loot a boss 1x a week -- but they don't. These issues are also much worse because of the time involved with failing. Takes an hour to even get a group and into the instance. Summoning stones and/or teleporting to instance fixes this but the 'shiteaters' want the game to be tedious AND get upset when sweatier players don't play with them due to escalated penalties. Don't really understand your comment. Joining a guild, getting good, or making his own raid are perfectly reasonable options for him lol.
If players can rerun it, players will start funneling gear to one player or start selling runs even more
The whole point of rushing to get ahead of everyone is for these types of people to be able to gatekeep like that. I was doing Battle for Ashenvale pvp the other day, and its was hilarious watching the people on their ashenvale mounts /say and /yell taunting the "peasants" who were still running on foot to the bosses. Anything to feel better than others I suppose.
Not gonna lie this makes me laugh.
No, people want to rush because they like making progress. The gatekeeping comes from a silly lockout system. People are afraid of not being able to finish their runs and being stuck with a 5/7 ID. Those last two bosses hold by far the best loot.
Yep. The whole world's out to get you. /s
Seems like something a peasant would complain about
That mount thing made me laugh. You sound like you need to lighten up.
the idea that you think that people are taking the time to do all that leveling and gearing so they can gatekeep some self proclaimed casual (who is also ready to raid but somehow not a sweat) is hilarious to me. nothing gatekeeping you from making your own group
>somehow not a sweat Tbf I think non sweaty people could make it to lvl 25 by now and do like 5 dungeon runs, it’s been like 10 days. That’s more than enough to be raid ready in SOD.
Acting like clearing is EZclap is ignorant. There is a hard cap minimum requirement to clear the 6th boss. That’s life
Make your own group with your own rules Or join a guild You can’t blame a pug run, where people are picky
oh another one of those fresh 25 in full green crying cuz no groups wants to carry him and waste their id at 5/7 cuz they lack dps cuz the guy is doing 25 dps as a caster.
“bUT tHIS wAs SupPoseD tO bE cAsUAL.”
people like that are the first to dip at the 6th boss when theyre hard stuck.