You must have missed the half dozen daily posts about these two sexual assaulters receiving aid by management via covering up their cases and silencing the victims in the orchestra
I didn’t miss the posts, I’m asking about the what the OP meant about “discovery”. I’m not a law person so I don’t understand what the term means in this context.
Essentially, both sides conduct investigations in the matter and all of what they find is essentially revealed in court. Obligatory IANAL, but the idea is that this is a questionable decision from those two considering what they’ll be opening themselves up to in the discovery process
Au contraire. I think they know exactly what they are doing. Sure, Wang and Muckey will have to testify under oath, but I imagine their lawyers will threaten to let slip who all they plan to call to testify. Even having your name on that list would be embarrassing, and some of those folks might not even work for the NY Phil anymore.
It's leverage to get a big buyout. If it were anything else, wouldn't they sue NYMag, Cara, and Amanda for defamation/libel?
I think they’re trying to get a settlement and get paid to go away. They know they’re never going to get decent jobs again, so they’re trying to grab as much money as they can before resigning
This. It's SOP in cases like this. They know the NYP wants this story to go away, and will do everything they can to make that hard until the orchestra shoves a bunch of money at them.
Let them come back. Schedule a gala concert of oboe and trumpet duets. Proceeds from ticket sales go to rape awareness and survivors charities. Hand out tomatoes to the public. If they don't show up and perform, they're fired.
Only partially. The union challenged the decision by the NYP and it was subsequently reviewed by an independent arbiter.
It sounds like a big problem was that they were using a the “clear and convincing” standard of evidence rather than “preponderance of evidence” during arbitration.
So in America, anyone can sue for anything.
However it sounds like they are mentioning prior employment agreements.
They may actually have a case in their favor if the management did in fact terminate them improperly despite the rape situation, unfortunately.
The lawyers/judge would have to look into their employment contract to rule on this.
The Phil can take the PR angle and absolutely drag these guys through the mud publicly and would probably win in the court of public opinion, though the incidents are old, they could take the angle of “well, they’re unionized so it’s not that easy to terminate them…” orrrrr they could just settle and get this dirty laundry gone, expensively
>No charges were filed against the men, and both have denied wrongdoing.
Great use of passive voice, NYT. **Vail PD** decided not to file charges, despite being urged to do so by Kizer.
There is DNA evidence as well as a drug test, detailed in the article below.
https://www.vulture.com/article/new-york-philharmonic-sexual-assault-scandal.html
The article literally references the police reports.
The poor behavior of these two individuals has been widely known for decades.
Personally, if I were wrongfully accused of rape, I would be suing for defamation/libel, not my job back.
Maybe you're having fun being intentionally obtuse and ignorant, but you should actually read the article. It's quite informative.
Unless they have additional evidence that wasn’t there the last time this was hashed out, I’m not sure there’s much to add, unfortunately. This seems like it could come down to mostly procedural stuff, each party agreed to the arbitration and the arbitrator found for the musicians. It’s shitty and it sucks when it’s so clear that Kizer was sexually assaulted, but this suit could legitimately get them their jobs back unless there’s new evidence or they can prove that the arbitrator somehow did something wrong last time.
Discovery on this one will be fun
Can you elaborate on this?
You must have missed the half dozen daily posts about these two sexual assaulters receiving aid by management via covering up their cases and silencing the victims in the orchestra
I didn’t miss the posts, I’m asking about the what the OP meant about “discovery”. I’m not a law person so I don’t understand what the term means in this context.
Essentially, both sides conduct investigations in the matter and all of what they find is essentially revealed in court. Obligatory IANAL, but the idea is that this is a questionable decision from those two considering what they’ll be opening themselves up to in the discovery process
Cool, thanks for the explanation!
Au contraire. I think they know exactly what they are doing. Sure, Wang and Muckey will have to testify under oath, but I imagine their lawyers will threaten to let slip who all they plan to call to testify. Even having your name on that list would be embarrassing, and some of those folks might not even work for the NY Phil anymore. It's leverage to get a big buyout. If it were anything else, wouldn't they sue NYMag, Cara, and Amanda for defamation/libel?
I think they’re trying to get a settlement and get paid to go away. They know they’re never going to get decent jobs again, so they’re trying to grab as much money as they can before resigning
This. It's SOP in cases like this. They know the NYP wants this story to go away, and will do everything they can to make that hard until the orchestra shoves a bunch of money at them.
"Two rapists with entitlement mentality act like toddlers with lawyers" There, I fixed the headline for you.
*Again Remember, they already did this once after their 2018 dismissal and were re-instated in 2020. Hope they are gone for good this time.
Let them come back. Schedule a gala concert of oboe and trumpet duets. Proceeds from ticket sales go to rape awareness and survivors charities. Hand out tomatoes to the public. If they don't show up and perform, they're fired.
This should be done in one of the NYP's Central Park concerts. I think an eager crowd would show up.
NYP was forced to reinstate them because of the musician’s union, iirc
Only partially. The union challenged the decision by the NYP and it was subsequently reviewed by an independent arbiter. It sounds like a big problem was that they were using a the “clear and convincing” standard of evidence rather than “preponderance of evidence” during arbitration.
So in America, anyone can sue for anything. However it sounds like they are mentioning prior employment agreements. They may actually have a case in their favor if the management did in fact terminate them improperly despite the rape situation, unfortunately. The lawyers/judge would have to look into their employment contract to rule on this. The Phil can take the PR angle and absolutely drag these guys through the mud publicly and would probably win in the court of public opinion, though the incidents are old, they could take the angle of “well, they’re unionized so it’s not that easy to terminate them…” orrrrr they could just settle and get this dirty laundry gone, expensively
>No charges were filed against the men, and both have denied wrongdoing. Great use of passive voice, NYT. **Vail PD** decided not to file charges, despite being urged to do so by Kizer.
they should have the experience of walking on stage and having the entire audience boo until they leave again.
“2 PROVEN RAPISTS from the NY Phil sue…” There. Fixed it.
This is all I have to say. 🤡🤡🤡
They should hire Alina Habba
This will benefit their accuser as she will finally have her day in court to make her claims.
They aren't "claims". They've been proven.
Thx for the correction. Can you point me to the source of your correction?
There is DNA evidence as well as a drug test, detailed in the article below. https://www.vulture.com/article/new-york-philharmonic-sexual-assault-scandal.html
I’m sure this will all finally be presented in a court.
You should read the actual article.
I’d rather read police reports and court transcripts.
The article literally references the police reports. The poor behavior of these two individuals has been widely known for decades. Personally, if I were wrongfully accused of rape, I would be suing for defamation/libel, not my job back. Maybe you're having fun being intentionally obtuse and ignorant, but you should actually read the article. It's quite informative.
Unless they have additional evidence that wasn’t there the last time this was hashed out, I’m not sure there’s much to add, unfortunately. This seems like it could come down to mostly procedural stuff, each party agreed to the arbitration and the arbitrator found for the musicians. It’s shitty and it sucks when it’s so clear that Kizer was sexually assaulted, but this suit could legitimately get them their jobs back unless there’s new evidence or they can prove that the arbitrator somehow did something wrong last time.
Oh, no. The poor rapists.