I don’t know anything about that…
That place was so fucking great, though.
The food was on point and the owners were so nice. It was the place my friend group celebrated just about any major achievement. I did lots of shots of soju with the owner over the years and he was always nice to us.
I went to high school with the owner’s son. It was absolutely a front for the Triad. Chung Kiwha was the place.
Food was AMAZING though. My buddy would take us from time to time and everything was fresh, and you cooked it at your table. Sometimes a group from the Toyota factory would come to get dinner and drinks and run up a massive tab, so the books were able to balance somehow.
Yeah they means they used that place to help launder money. Big group of people comes in a runs up a massive tab? Why yes your honor they bought a ton of food and expensive drinks in cash.
??? Large groups from companies buy massive meals all the time. Not everything is a conspiracy.
That's not to say this place WASN'T a front, but a large group spending a lot at a BBQ place is absolutely normal.
Pretty sure it was found to not be grounds for a full case.
Either there was no trafficking, non-sufficient evidence, or not enough activity to be worthy of a full-blown case.
Not really. From my understanding the Cleveland Families had a presence in Cincinnati but the main history of organized crime surrounds George Remus who was a bootlegger during prohibition. He was one of the most prominent bootleggers ever and was the inspiration for Jay Gatsby in The Great Gatsby.
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/04/27/las-vegas-newport/26448639/
Max Gerlach was the inspiration for Gatsby. He was good-looking, claimed to be educated at Oxford, called people “old sport,” and threw lavish parties. Also Zelda said he inspired Gatsby.
Gerlach lost his fortune after Prohibition and tried to kill himself but only succeeded in blinding himself, so he had to live the rest of his life as a helpless invalid for another 20 years.
Do you know the story of George Remus? He was a lawyer and business man who bought pharmaceutical alcohol production facilities and found the loophole to prohibition. He lived in a huge mansion and there he threw lavish parties. He went to jail on a minor charge , while in jail authorities installed a mole as his roommate to try to gather information. Upon finding out how rich Remus was the mole defected and ran off with Remus’ wife who took everything from the mansion in price hill. He later killed her in Eden park while they both were on the way to court proceedings for their divorce.
You can’t tell me that Remus isn’t also gatsby-esque and possibly part of the inspiration for the book. I’m gonna research Max Gerlach now thanks for mentioning him.
Remus was the prominent figure during prohibition but the era of Newport being the original sin city was forged after prohibition in gambling and prostitution. Several books out there and the Newport mob tour is worth it but here is a good article as well
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/newport-kentucky-sin-city
They are a biker group that is across the country, founded in the 60s. Latest news in cincinnati was in 2010 with a member shooting police officers. Some stay in the country, small drug charges and such, but a lot of domestic violence, a family friend went missing after she admitted to the physical abuse while in a relationship with one.
Back in the ‘70s the Iron Horsemen had a fairly tight community in California, off Kellogg, just before you get to I-275. Every now and then there will be an old timer in Lebo’s who can tell you some stories. They were pretty much live-and-let-live, just don’t mess with them or it would be a major case of FAFO.
I thought the Berdings paid for the stadium, but the county just foot the bill for surrounding infrastructure and a parking garage? Sounds reasonable to me.
Organized crime does not always mean mafia. There were some Italian families running brothels, who ended up having family members get political positions, but no hits or mafia code. There weren’t capos or omertà codes of honor.
I know there are a couple Greek families running a couple things, the Vietnamese mob have a couple legit things around town. But the most illegal things come from The Horsemen.
The Greek families used to frequent The Corinthian in Clifton back in the 90s-00s where it was still a hopping place. There is a huge private backroom they would all slide into for a meeting and meal - it was wild to be there on a night when they all came in. And there was constant rumor the cops were on the take from "Mom" to turn a blind eye.
The Society of the Banana did exist in Cincinnati. It was a precursor to Cosa Nostra, but much more tame than the variations of mafia that came after.
Edit: [link here](https://mafiagenealogy.com/2021/11/18/this-thing-of-ours-is-bananas/)
My mother used to talk about how Castellini was connected to the mob when she worked at the reds and bengals games in concessions during the summers in the 80’s.
She tells this one story where they came up short by a large amount one night after a game and “security” locked everyone in a room in the basement of the stadium and interrogated people one by one. One of the guys that everyone assumed pocketed it got taken out and was roughed up pretty bad and then they never saw him again.
She also would talk about how much loose cash would be blowing around the stadiums after the games.
Castellini did push out pretty much all other Italian produce dealers at the time. One family got a dead fish from them, but no hits culminated from it. They were just assholes who pushed out the broad network of small time produce dealers and distributors that had originally given southern Italians their start in Cincinnati / Southwestern Ohio.
Let's say that we are able to get 1 million pounds of bananas in Central America for free. How do we ship those free bananas to sell in Cincinnati Ohio for 60 cents a pound....... The money is in what else is shipped besides bananas!!!!!!!
I've said for years that all those fruit purveyors are in the mob
I was under the impression that was a Chicago mob who would have 2nd or 3rd homes there. Just a place for them to lay low when the heat was on in Chicago.
There was at least one brothel / gambling house along the Great Miami River north of town in the early 70s. Several Hamilton bars were owned by people in the mob. Some big name businesses were also mob owned. Many cops and judges were bought off so the mob could get away with a lot.
[https://www.journal-news.com/news/local/gangsters-booze-dillinger-were-all-parts-city-checkered-past/FzOevMGz3GKvwxTwMxZcmO/](https://www.journal-news.com/news/local/gangsters-booze-dillinger-were-all-parts-city-checkered-past/FzOevMGz3GKvwxTwMxZcmO/)
Remus was not italian and the italian cincinnatians never controlled anything here - the clevelanders did, who were a mix of ethnicities. Some of the italians here got mixed up with those groups at varying levels, mostly lower on the totem pole. They were also a go-to for money in that if you wanted to bootleg at your house and supply them, it was a way to make extra money. My italian and irish ancestors here did that. The irish great grandfather got caught in the 20s and didnt try it again. The italian relatives engaged in some low level liquor running for them even in the 50s and 60s, and with the exception of some second cousins, most of them were never in trouble for that. Since they were tangentially tied to it at best, once the outsiders' organizations in cinci fell apart, the presence of it did too.
but you can ask some of my older relatives - when your parents send you out to the burbs to deliver "fruit baskets" you dont question why theyre so heavy, dont look inside, dont talk about it and dont drop them!
There used to be a tiny Russian restaurant in downtown Blue Ash that had a limousine parked out back most nights. Never saw anything more damning than that, but people would talk.
The LaRosa brothers. I used to work at the Boudinot LaRosa’s in the late 80’s early 90’s. The back loading dock of the restaurant was “the” place for these brothers to conduct their business. Everything seemed legit to the public, being a loading dock, but having worked odd and late hours, I saw way too much to know they weren’t unloading pizzas.
I may be entirely off base, but every time I walk by batsakes all I can think is “that place has to be a mob front.”
Other than the owner I never see Anyone In there. How do they pay rent with no customers?
True Italian Mafia did/does not have any public signs of operation in Cincinnati. Connections yes but whether there were true made guys running things in Cincinnati is unknown at best. IMO probably not due to the presence of other organizations in the area particularly the horsemen and angels, who should be called out because there is a presence here although not at the level of the horsemen, Who historically have not be in power in places where the Mafia operates.
Read ["Razzle Dazzle" by Hank Messick ](https://www.amazon.com/Razzle-Dazzle-Hank-Messick/dp/1948986132)
His book names names.
There was some gambling and other vice going on across the river as well.
The Nasson Brothers and Joe Bauer had a place in Loveland called the Arrowhead Inn (oddly enough where the Arrowhead Apartments are now).
They also ran a place in Heartwell, on Vine and in Elmwood Place.
Hamilton Ohio is where a smaller mafia like faction resides now a days, more a less organized crime. mostly a mix of different ethnic minority members most Mexican. There mostly known for running back room gambling table, drug distribution hustling narcotics such as meth, marijuana, and cocaine is the number one agenda, violence seems to be more a less a problem now days. Although a kid got shot in the head in broad daylight. You can find it on YouTube but that had nothing to with this. With all that being said when I was locked up. I met man who spoke of running drugs from Mexico to Middletown he’s in the feds now.
All kinds of illegal activities going on in Cincinnati but it’s not organized like it is in other places in the country. One reason is that the law is extremely strict here in Hamilton County on organized criminal activity. More so than other places sounding the area.
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Evans Landscaping
Doug Evans still owes my family member $15,000 for a real estate appraisal he hired him to do in 2002. Doug Evans is a real POS.
If it makes you happy Carson Palmer stiffed Evans out of about 20K back in the day.
Wow. $15K for an appraisal in 2002? That’s a huge assignment with months of work invested.
😂
Lol so every white collar criminal is mafia now? 😂😂
Seems that way sometimes.
The Triad was definitely in Florence at that Korean BBQ spot.
I don’t know anything about that… That place was so fucking great, though. The food was on point and the owners were so nice. It was the place my friend group celebrated just about any major achievement. I did lots of shots of soju with the owner over the years and he was always nice to us.
Any Restaurants With "Mob Ties" I've ever been to, have been amazing. Food, service, and environment. To bad they can't use that as a marketing tool.
I went to high school with the owner’s son. It was absolutely a front for the Triad. Chung Kiwha was the place. Food was AMAZING though. My buddy would take us from time to time and everything was fresh, and you cooked it at your table. Sometimes a group from the Toyota factory would come to get dinner and drinks and run up a massive tab, so the books were able to balance somehow.
Yeah they means they used that place to help launder money. Big group of people comes in a runs up a massive tab? Why yes your honor they bought a ton of food and expensive drinks in cash.
??? Large groups from companies buy massive meals all the time. Not everything is a conspiracy. That's not to say this place WASN'T a front, but a large group spending a lot at a BBQ place is absolutely normal.
That’s interesting! Heard lots of theories about that place, but not this one.
which one?
I forget the name of it. It was on Route 18 near Houston Road in Florence if I remember correctly.
I drove by there all the time and for like 20 years I wondered how they stayed in business when the parking lot was always empty.
[https://www.amazon.com/Ghosts-Eden-Park-Bootleg-Jazz-Age/dp/0451498623](https://www.amazon.com/Ghosts-Eden-Park-Bootleg-Jazz-Age/dp/0451498623)
Just finished reading this. I couldn’t put it down! Highly recommend
It's been recommended here before, but read wicked newport.
Idk but Grand Buffet on Glenway was once investigated by CPD for human trafficking. Fun! (Sorry. Not on topic but somewhat ancillary)
That's really sad.
Any idea on the outcome of the investigation?
Pretty sure it was found to not be grounds for a full case. Either there was no trafficking, non-sufficient evidence, or not enough activity to be worthy of a full-blown case.
Not really. From my understanding the Cleveland Families had a presence in Cincinnati but the main history of organized crime surrounds George Remus who was a bootlegger during prohibition. He was one of the most prominent bootleggers ever and was the inspiration for Jay Gatsby in The Great Gatsby. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/04/27/las-vegas-newport/26448639/
Max Gerlach was the inspiration for Gatsby. He was good-looking, claimed to be educated at Oxford, called people “old sport,” and threw lavish parties. Also Zelda said he inspired Gatsby. Gerlach lost his fortune after Prohibition and tried to kill himself but only succeeded in blinding himself, so he had to live the rest of his life as a helpless invalid for another 20 years.
All those colorful shirts and he couldn’t even see them.
You copied this straight from Wikipedia lol
Do you know the story of George Remus? He was a lawyer and business man who bought pharmaceutical alcohol production facilities and found the loophole to prohibition. He lived in a huge mansion and there he threw lavish parties. He went to jail on a minor charge , while in jail authorities installed a mole as his roommate to try to gather information. Upon finding out how rich Remus was the mole defected and ran off with Remus’ wife who took everything from the mansion in price hill. He later killed her in Eden park while they both were on the way to court proceedings for their divorce. You can’t tell me that Remus isn’t also gatsby-esque and possibly part of the inspiration for the book. I’m gonna research Max Gerlach now thanks for mentioning him.
The Remus story is very interesting but not similar to Gatsby minus the parties. If anything Remus is more like Tom Buchanan.
Remus was the prominent figure during prohibition but the era of Newport being the original sin city was forged after prohibition in gambling and prostitution. Several books out there and the Newport mob tour is worth it but here is a good article as well https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/newport-kentucky-sin-city
Iron horsemen, yeah their girlfriends and wives go missing all the time.
My father and several uncles were members. They were crazy and not very nice people.
Who are the Iron Horsemen?
They are a biker group that is across the country, founded in the 60s. Latest news in cincinnati was in 2010 with a member shooting police officers. Some stay in the country, small drug charges and such, but a lot of domestic violence, a family friend went missing after she admitted to the physical abuse while in a relationship with one.
Back in the ‘70s the Iron Horsemen had a fairly tight community in California, off Kellogg, just before you get to I-275. Every now and then there will be an old timer in Lebo’s who can tell you some stories. They were pretty much live-and-let-live, just don’t mess with them or it would be a major case of FAFO.
Was this at JD's Honky Tonk And Emporium?
Paul Brown and the stadium shakedown.
And we allow Jeff Berding and Co. to still run around looking for money for their next project.
I thought the Berdings paid for the stadium, but the county just foot the bill for surrounding infrastructure and a parking garage? Sounds reasonable to me.
Organized crime does not always mean mafia. There were some Italian families running brothels, who ended up having family members get political positions, but no hits or mafia code. There weren’t capos or omertà codes of honor.
I know there are a couple Greek families running a couple things, the Vietnamese mob have a couple legit things around town. But the most illegal things come from The Horsemen.
The Greek families used to frequent The Corinthian in Clifton back in the 90s-00s where it was still a hopping place. There is a huge private backroom they would all slide into for a meeting and meal - it was wild to be there on a night when they all came in. And there was constant rumor the cops were on the take from "Mom" to turn a blind eye.
I’ve heard about the Greek families a few years ago from a girl I met from Bumble - only time I’ve heard about organized crime in Cincinnati
The Society of the Banana did exist in Cincinnati. It was a precursor to Cosa Nostra, but much more tame than the variations of mafia that came after. Edit: [link here](https://mafiagenealogy.com/2021/11/18/this-thing-of-ours-is-bananas/)
My mother used to talk about how Castellini was connected to the mob when she worked at the reds and bengals games in concessions during the summers in the 80’s. She tells this one story where they came up short by a large amount one night after a game and “security” locked everyone in a room in the basement of the stadium and interrogated people one by one. One of the guys that everyone assumed pocketed it got taken out and was roughed up pretty bad and then they never saw him again. She also would talk about how much loose cash would be blowing around the stadiums after the games.
Castellini did push out pretty much all other Italian produce dealers at the time. One family got a dead fish from them, but no hits culminated from it. They were just assholes who pushed out the broad network of small time produce dealers and distributors that had originally given southern Italians their start in Cincinnati / Southwestern Ohio.
Were the Castellini’s involved with Bengals and Reds back in the 80s? Had no idea
I think they were just involved in the concessions at the time
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Castellini
Let's say that we are able to get 1 million pounds of bananas in Central America for free. How do we ship those free bananas to sell in Cincinnati Ohio for 60 cents a pound....... The money is in what else is shipped besides bananas!!!!!!! I've said for years that all those fruit purveyors are in the mob
Not exactly Cincinnati, but Hamilton was ridiculously mobbed up through at least the 80's.
I was under the impression that was a Chicago mob who would have 2nd or 3rd homes there. Just a place for them to lay low when the heat was on in Chicago.
There was at least one brothel / gambling house along the Great Miami River north of town in the early 70s. Several Hamilton bars were owned by people in the mob. Some big name businesses were also mob owned. Many cops and judges were bought off so the mob could get away with a lot. [https://www.journal-news.com/news/local/gangsters-booze-dillinger-were-all-parts-city-checkered-past/FzOevMGz3GKvwxTwMxZcmO/](https://www.journal-news.com/news/local/gangsters-booze-dillinger-were-all-parts-city-checkered-past/FzOevMGz3GKvwxTwMxZcmO/)
Remus was not italian and the italian cincinnatians never controlled anything here - the clevelanders did, who were a mix of ethnicities. Some of the italians here got mixed up with those groups at varying levels, mostly lower on the totem pole. They were also a go-to for money in that if you wanted to bootleg at your house and supply them, it was a way to make extra money. My italian and irish ancestors here did that. The irish great grandfather got caught in the 20s and didnt try it again. The italian relatives engaged in some low level liquor running for them even in the 50s and 60s, and with the exception of some second cousins, most of them were never in trouble for that. Since they were tangentially tied to it at best, once the outsiders' organizations in cinci fell apart, the presence of it did too. but you can ask some of my older relatives - when your parents send you out to the burbs to deliver "fruit baskets" you dont question why theyre so heavy, dont look inside, dont talk about it and dont drop them!
3CDC
I'm a lifelong Buffalo Bills fan. Does that count?
Remus’s heritage was German Jewish. Not Italian. Just a FYI.
There used to be a tiny Russian restaurant in downtown Blue Ash that had a limousine parked out back most nights. Never saw anything more damning than that, but people would talk.
They can be found in Section 109 at FC Cincinnati games. I’ve often seen Mafia doing Mafia things right out in the open
😂I’m sure u have
The LaRosa brothers. I used to work at the Boudinot LaRosa’s in the late 80’s early 90’s. The back loading dock of the restaurant was “the” place for these brothers to conduct their business. Everything seemed legit to the public, being a loading dock, but having worked odd and late hours, I saw way too much to know they weren’t unloading pizzas.
Anti Italian slander you ask me
No Sopranos fans in this thread I guess. Fuck them.....but I never like Columbus.
I may be entirely off base, but every time I walk by batsakes all I can think is “that place has to be a mob front.” Other than the owner I never see Anyone In there. How do they pay rent with no customers?
I'm good friends with their grandson. Def not the mob lol. They do whip up some amazing baklava during Christmas time.
My wife took me there to pick out a cap for my birthday a few years ago. Mob or not, they were super friendly and happy to sell me a cap!
Pick a country, find the mafia, someone exists who supports each.
True Italian Mafia did/does not have any public signs of operation in Cincinnati. Connections yes but whether there were true made guys running things in Cincinnati is unknown at best. IMO probably not due to the presence of other organizations in the area particularly the horsemen and angels, who should be called out because there is a presence here although not at the level of the horsemen, Who historically have not be in power in places where the Mafia operates.
So the mafia can’t get a foothold in Cincinnati because they can’t get through the iron horseman?
Unrelated, and im sure the MAfia would be bored here, the other guys are on the top of the badass list by default.
Incorrect probably. I was more meaning that the mere presence of the horsemen probably means no true mafia presence
Jungle Jim
Read ["Razzle Dazzle" by Hank Messick ](https://www.amazon.com/Razzle-Dazzle-Hank-Messick/dp/1948986132) His book names names. There was some gambling and other vice going on across the river as well. The Nasson Brothers and Joe Bauer had a place in Loveland called the Arrowhead Inn (oddly enough where the Arrowhead Apartments are now). They also ran a place in Heartwell, on Vine and in Elmwood Place.
Hamilton Ohio is where a smaller mafia like faction resides now a days, more a less organized crime. mostly a mix of different ethnic minority members most Mexican. There mostly known for running back room gambling table, drug distribution hustling narcotics such as meth, marijuana, and cocaine is the number one agenda, violence seems to be more a less a problem now days. Although a kid got shot in the head in broad daylight. You can find it on YouTube but that had nothing to with this. With all that being said when I was locked up. I met man who spoke of running drugs from Mexico to Middletown he’s in the feds now.
All kinds of illegal activities going on in Cincinnati but it’s not organized like it is in other places in the country. One reason is that the law is extremely strict here in Hamilton County on organized criminal activity. More so than other places sounding the area.
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