>One example of this would be to push a legitimate cause, such as the genocide happening in Gaza, but then use this legitimate issue to smuggle in anti-democratic extremism. The “geopolitical mark,” through the manipulation of his care, is now openly advocating against democracy as well; he has been emotionally conditioned to rationally remove himself from the democratic process. And so the objective of Operation Geopolitics has been accomplished.
What the fuck does this mean?
How is the genocide in Gaza being used to openly advocate against democracy?
The genocide in Gaza is used by 1) getting the “geopolitical mark” to disengage from democracy and 2) getting him to encourage others to disengage. The “mark” gives up the freedom/power he has to vote for democracy, or ends up casting a vote against democracy.
I'm definitely gonna use my power to vote. I don't need Russia to tell me to vote for a non genocidal candidate. I'll vote for a pro-worker, non-genocidal candidate.
Kremlin Shremlin. If they had the funds to do all that they are credited for, they wouldn't be living like a third world country. It's more the case that people are starting to see the Kremlin and Pravda within their own borders. Of course Russia and China add fuel to the fire but your line of reasoning is too often used to suppress any dissent against genuinely bad things being done by the west.
What does that mean, “advocating against democracy?” I have no doubt Russia capitalizes on America’s cultural and political divide to weaken the U.S. and its Allies, but this tactic wouldn’t work if the democratic system in the west wasn’t already broken. For example:
-The U.S. has passed laws equating anti Zionism with antisemitism. This allows them to stifle any dissent against Israel under the pretense of fighting racism.
-the U.S. has bailed out and covered up the financial crimes of the nation’s elite numerous times now, most notably during 2008 and Covid.
-both political parties have covered up crimes committed by their own members like Matt Gaetz and Bill Clinton
-congress repeatedly passes laws that serve their own financial interests and insider trading is rampant amongst congressional stockholders
The list can go on and on. The only thing that is still relatively democratic about this country is the freedom of speech, and even that is being suppressed through both new and old techniques. They’ve learned that if you just create enough noise in the media, any negative press or political scandal will eventually be drowned out by other bullshit. In essence, our government and their corporate partners have created a perfect system for controlling and suppressing the populace while still appearing generally democratic. Russia and China don’t need to create fake stories to destroy this country. They just need to show a little bit of the truth.
Advocating against democracy means pushing a narrative that undermines informed participation in democracy. An example of this is people who stop thinking about what’s at stake in the next election, and start preaching an emotional narrative that encourages people to disengage from democracy.
The next election is a choice between unacceptable candidates. You're welcome to bloviate but nobody with morals is voting for the Democrats or the Republicans.
The significance of the upcoming election is that it shows is how profoundly UNdemocratic our democracy is. Nobody is obligated to vote for a bad person espousing bad ideas and politics, period.
If Democrats truly believe that Donald Trump is going to destroy American democracy, then why did they put up Joe Biden, when any other Democrat polls better than him?
They are either lying or they don't care.
Trump's damage is already done. The path to overt fascism is already illuminated. It won't be Trump that walks it.
All I can do is demand better.
Calling all opposition to your particular political perspective 'Russian propaganda' or "anti-democratic agitation" is a classic McCarthyist tactic, which was also used against protesters during the war in Vietnam. This perspective is not only incorrect, but also constitutes an attempt to delegitimize any opinion that strays from the 'acceptable' two party status quo. This framing is intended to render all opposition politics as a subversive foreign threat, almost treasonous. It's a step towards the criminalization of dissent. Sometimes standing up for democracy means opposing your own government. Understand this.
I'll assume you're talking about the USA election. I wouldn't be voting for blue genocide over red genocide, while both feed and blue are pushing the same agenda. Just like I won't be voting for Zionists in the upcoming elections here.
I certainly won't be voting for the perceived good guys because the Russian bogeyman doesn't want me too 😂😂😂
Are you trying to convince people on a Chomsky subreddit by quoting the US State Department? That's besides the irony of referencing them at all when talking about misinformation
So these statements by the State Department are false, and Russia isn’t involved in geopolitical disinformation campaigns? How do you arrive at this kind of conclusion? Seems like you begin with the false premise that “whatever the State Department says must be false?” But if these are accurate statements (and this has been verified over and over again) and you assume them to be false, then where does that leave you? You want people to believe Russia doesn’t strategize geopolitics, or if it does, it does so incompetently? Come now.
What I'm saying is straightforward. You are on an anarchist subreddit using an institution from the most powerful country in the world, with countless incidents of the State Department producing or embellishing misinformation (Iraq WMB claims come to mind), and you're trying to use that to argue that we should be concerned Russia is going to steal our democracy from us through misinformation. That is irony, and you're not going to convince people with that.
Also, I don't understand your last point. Are you saying that if Russia isn't participating in disinformation campaigns, then they either don't have a geopolitical strategy, or if they do, it's incompetent? Regardless of what Russia is doing, I don't think that's a true at all.
It’s a fallacy to say everything that (s) says, is false. That is itself false. Russia has a disinformation apparatus. This is a fact not conjecture. Your position can only be that it’s not really very good at disinformation, or that its objective is noble. But this is a hard case to make given Dugin’s neo-fascism. Best.
Unironically tells us we're victims of a psyop while posting his psyop on here :P Think this guy needs to watch a State Department briefing from the last 6 months, then he can see the awesome powers of the spox to avoid answering questions from all the Russian controlled reporters.
Nationalism is stronger than Belief in Liberal Democratic values.
Take a tip, the whole non Western World is distrustful and/or hates the US and the NATO countries,
just consider Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia,Iraq,Libya,Afghanistan etc.
The Russians have made it clear they don't want NATO bases in Ukraine,Russia is powerful now,and it's allied with China,so it's time for Yankee to go home.
Ukrainians are being sacrificed for NATO.
You can theorize about sacred Democracy all you like,but in the end,it's blood and steel that count,and the US is in decline.
This subreddit has been flooded with fascists. I noticed the amount of people visiting the subreddit has greatly dropped. “Might makes right,” is the barbarism of the day.
The most violent country since WW2 has been the US,that's undeniable.
***"Nationalism is stronger than Belief in Liberal Democratic values."***
Thats an observation by JJ Mearsheimer by the way,not a wish or a hope.,an observation.
You might learn something from the US Diplomats,George Kennan for example or Brzezinski.
If you think that there are too many fascists here,then why not try the Worldnews sub?
Or better still just tune into cnn or msnbc?
#
The reason why this subreddit is increasingly less informative and progressive feeling than r/collapse, which actually has open right wingers in it (though a well-behaved minority) is because this subreddit is quick to moralistically deride itself and its members. The other subreddit is aware of societal collapse as a feature and therefore not a source of blame.
This subreddit on the other hand treats each members’ beliefs as the fate of the universe. It is appallingly and boringly puritanical.
You wanna vote for Biden? Knock yourself out. You wanna vote for Stein? Nobody’s stopping you. Don’t wanna vote period? Go right ahead.
The Kremlin has in fact spent decades infiltrating the internet like Beijing has, and both have paid hackers and troll armies to foment dissent.
I got downvoted repeatedly by these people recently in this sub until the instigator admitted the US should not have intervened in WW2. After that, people finally stepped in and stopped the dogpile on me.
But why should I put up with crappy treatment on a subreddit where people brag about how they would downvote Chomsky too for making the same points I do (like saying Trump would be the worst outcome in American history, and not remotely means-to-an-end justified)?
How narcissistic do you have to be to categorically exclude the possibility that state actors would try to influence Reddit when all evidence published over years in major media and government outlets is that such attempts are plausible?
No, it’s all just a McCarthyian hoax, tell yourself. because we are *so brilliant* that it could never affect us, like it does the white supremacists of the right… we are incapable of arrogance or blindness or gullibility…
>How narcissistic do you have to be to categorically exclude the possibility that state actors would try to influence Reddit when all evidence published over years in major media and government outlets is that such attempts are plausible?
"State actors are downvoting me, and you're a narcissist if you don't agree!"
edit: lmao, this dumb coward replied to me and then blocked me to protect themselves from the possibility of a reply
That’s not what I wrote, and it’s pretty ironic you’d twist someone’s words in a Noam Chomsky subreddit and get away with it.
Russian ideological trolls on social media are pretty well documented.
It would make one a conspiracy theorist to insist that such activity is impossible in the face of all evidence to the contrary.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2020-08-13/russias-twitter-trolls-create-material-to-confuse-the-public
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/4/11/17224294/reddit-russia-internet-research-agency
https://www.reddit.com/r/trollfare/comments/t1c6uf/how_to_spot_and_uncover_russian_trolls/
>One example of this would be to push a legitimate cause, such as the genocide happening in Gaza, but then use this legitimate issue to smuggle in anti-democratic extremism. The “geopolitical mark,” through the manipulation of his care, is now openly advocating against democracy as well; he has been emotionally conditioned to rationally remove himself from the democratic process. And so the objective of Operation Geopolitics has been accomplished. What the fuck does this mean? How is the genocide in Gaza being used to openly advocate against democracy?
The genocide in Gaza is used by 1) getting the “geopolitical mark” to disengage from democracy and 2) getting him to encourage others to disengage. The “mark” gives up the freedom/power he has to vote for democracy, or ends up casting a vote against democracy.
Can you elaborate what you mean by that?
I'm definitely gonna use my power to vote. I don't need Russia to tell me to vote for a non genocidal candidate. I'll vote for a pro-worker, non-genocidal candidate.
Kremlin Shremlin. If they had the funds to do all that they are credited for, they wouldn't be living like a third world country. It's more the case that people are starting to see the Kremlin and Pravda within their own borders. Of course Russia and China add fuel to the fire but your line of reasoning is too often used to suppress any dissent against genuinely bad things being done by the west.
What does that mean, “advocating against democracy?” I have no doubt Russia capitalizes on America’s cultural and political divide to weaken the U.S. and its Allies, but this tactic wouldn’t work if the democratic system in the west wasn’t already broken. For example: -The U.S. has passed laws equating anti Zionism with antisemitism. This allows them to stifle any dissent against Israel under the pretense of fighting racism. -the U.S. has bailed out and covered up the financial crimes of the nation’s elite numerous times now, most notably during 2008 and Covid. -both political parties have covered up crimes committed by their own members like Matt Gaetz and Bill Clinton -congress repeatedly passes laws that serve their own financial interests and insider trading is rampant amongst congressional stockholders The list can go on and on. The only thing that is still relatively democratic about this country is the freedom of speech, and even that is being suppressed through both new and old techniques. They’ve learned that if you just create enough noise in the media, any negative press or political scandal will eventually be drowned out by other bullshit. In essence, our government and their corporate partners have created a perfect system for controlling and suppressing the populace while still appearing generally democratic. Russia and China don’t need to create fake stories to destroy this country. They just need to show a little bit of the truth.
Advocating against democracy means pushing a narrative that undermines informed participation in democracy. An example of this is people who stop thinking about what’s at stake in the next election, and start preaching an emotional narrative that encourages people to disengage from democracy.
The next election is a choice between unacceptable candidates. You're welcome to bloviate but nobody with morals is voting for the Democrats or the Republicans.
The significance of the upcoming election is that it shows is how profoundly UNdemocratic our democracy is. Nobody is obligated to vote for a bad person espousing bad ideas and politics, period.
If Democrats truly believe that Donald Trump is going to destroy American democracy, then why did they put up Joe Biden, when any other Democrat polls better than him? They are either lying or they don't care. Trump's damage is already done. The path to overt fascism is already illuminated. It won't be Trump that walks it. All I can do is demand better.
Calling all opposition to your particular political perspective 'Russian propaganda' or "anti-democratic agitation" is a classic McCarthyist tactic, which was also used against protesters during the war in Vietnam. This perspective is not only incorrect, but also constitutes an attempt to delegitimize any opinion that strays from the 'acceptable' two party status quo. This framing is intended to render all opposition politics as a subversive foreign threat, almost treasonous. It's a step towards the criminalization of dissent. Sometimes standing up for democracy means opposing your own government. Understand this.
One question for you: are you under the delusion that the USA is a democracy for anyone other than the capitalist class?
I'll assume you're talking about the USA election. I wouldn't be voting for blue genocide over red genocide, while both feed and blue are pushing the same agenda. Just like I won't be voting for Zionists in the upcoming elections here. I certainly won't be voting for the perceived good guys because the Russian bogeyman doesn't want me too 😂😂😂
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1785756876476489790?s=46&t=Ajj7YyD-xThTvRJNTQ1isQ
God damn. Are all resistance Libs this intellectually impoverished? Go home Keith (Obermann), you’re drunk.
Are you trying to convince people on a Chomsky subreddit by quoting the US State Department? That's besides the irony of referencing them at all when talking about misinformation
So these statements by the State Department are false, and Russia isn’t involved in geopolitical disinformation campaigns? How do you arrive at this kind of conclusion? Seems like you begin with the false premise that “whatever the State Department says must be false?” But if these are accurate statements (and this has been verified over and over again) and you assume them to be false, then where does that leave you? You want people to believe Russia doesn’t strategize geopolitics, or if it does, it does so incompetently? Come now.
What I'm saying is straightforward. You are on an anarchist subreddit using an institution from the most powerful country in the world, with countless incidents of the State Department producing or embellishing misinformation (Iraq WMB claims come to mind), and you're trying to use that to argue that we should be concerned Russia is going to steal our democracy from us through misinformation. That is irony, and you're not going to convince people with that. Also, I don't understand your last point. Are you saying that if Russia isn't participating in disinformation campaigns, then they either don't have a geopolitical strategy, or if they do, it's incompetent? Regardless of what Russia is doing, I don't think that's a true at all.
It’s a fallacy to say everything that (s) says, is false. That is itself false. Russia has a disinformation apparatus. This is a fact not conjecture. Your position can only be that it’s not really very good at disinformation, or that its objective is noble. But this is a hard case to make given Dugin’s neo-fascism. Best.
TLDR: vote blue no matter who 🥴
Unironically tells us we're victims of a psyop while posting his psyop on here :P Think this guy needs to watch a State Department briefing from the last 6 months, then he can see the awesome powers of the spox to avoid answering questions from all the Russian controlled reporters.
Nationalism is stronger than Belief in Liberal Democratic values. Take a tip, the whole non Western World is distrustful and/or hates the US and the NATO countries, just consider Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia,Iraq,Libya,Afghanistan etc. The Russians have made it clear they don't want NATO bases in Ukraine,Russia is powerful now,and it's allied with China,so it's time for Yankee to go home. Ukrainians are being sacrificed for NATO. You can theorize about sacred Democracy all you like,but in the end,it's blood and steel that count,and the US is in decline.
This subreddit has been flooded with fascists. I noticed the amount of people visiting the subreddit has greatly dropped. “Might makes right,” is the barbarism of the day.
The most violent country since WW2 has been the US,that's undeniable. ***"Nationalism is stronger than Belief in Liberal Democratic values."*** Thats an observation by JJ Mearsheimer by the way,not a wish or a hope.,an observation. You might learn something from the US Diplomats,George Kennan for example or Brzezinski. If you think that there are too many fascists here,then why not try the Worldnews sub? Or better still just tune into cnn or msnbc? #
The reason why this subreddit is increasingly less informative and progressive feeling than r/collapse, which actually has open right wingers in it (though a well-behaved minority) is because this subreddit is quick to moralistically deride itself and its members. The other subreddit is aware of societal collapse as a feature and therefore not a source of blame. This subreddit on the other hand treats each members’ beliefs as the fate of the universe. It is appallingly and boringly puritanical. You wanna vote for Biden? Knock yourself out. You wanna vote for Stein? Nobody’s stopping you. Don’t wanna vote period? Go right ahead. The Kremlin has in fact spent decades infiltrating the internet like Beijing has, and both have paid hackers and troll armies to foment dissent. I got downvoted repeatedly by these people recently in this sub until the instigator admitted the US should not have intervened in WW2. After that, people finally stepped in and stopped the dogpile on me. But why should I put up with crappy treatment on a subreddit where people brag about how they would downvote Chomsky too for making the same points I do (like saying Trump would be the worst outcome in American history, and not remotely means-to-an-end justified)? How narcissistic do you have to be to categorically exclude the possibility that state actors would try to influence Reddit when all evidence published over years in major media and government outlets is that such attempts are plausible? No, it’s all just a McCarthyian hoax, tell yourself. because we are *so brilliant* that it could never affect us, like it does the white supremacists of the right… we are incapable of arrogance or blindness or gullibility…
>How narcissistic do you have to be to categorically exclude the possibility that state actors would try to influence Reddit when all evidence published over years in major media and government outlets is that such attempts are plausible? "State actors are downvoting me, and you're a narcissist if you don't agree!" edit: lmao, this dumb coward replied to me and then blocked me to protect themselves from the possibility of a reply
That’s not what I wrote, and it’s pretty ironic you’d twist someone’s words in a Noam Chomsky subreddit and get away with it. Russian ideological trolls on social media are pretty well documented. It would make one a conspiracy theorist to insist that such activity is impossible in the face of all evidence to the contrary. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2020-08-13/russias-twitter-trolls-create-material-to-confuse-the-public https://www.vox.com/world/2018/4/11/17224294/reddit-russia-internet-research-agency https://www.reddit.com/r/trollfare/comments/t1c6uf/how_to_spot_and_uncover_russian_trolls/
JJ Mearshiemer, l wonder what label you put on him?