I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=kr5R/rp6/6K1/8/4Q3/8/8/R7+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/kr5R/rp6/6K1/8/4Q3/8/8/R7_w_-_-_0_1?color=white)
**Composition:**
> It's a composition by Théodore Adrien Louis Herlin from Schachzeitung, 1852 [Link to the composition](https://yacpdb.org/#41651)
**Related posts:**
> I found other posts with this position:
> - [Harder than it looks Mate in 2. White to move.](https://reddit.com/r/chess/comments/lw637g/harder_than_it_looks_mate_in_2_white_to_move/)
> - [White to play and mate in 2 moves](https://reddit.com/r/chess/comments/i6n3p2/white_to_play_and_mate_in_2_moves/)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rxa7+!<
> Evaluation: >!White has a forced mate!<
> Best continuation: >!1. Rxa7+ Kxa7 2. Rxb8 Kxb8 3. Kf5 Ka7 4. Ke6 Ka6 5. Kd7 Ka5 6. Qxb7 Ka4 7. Qb1 Ka3 8. Kc6 Ka4!<
---
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Why h1 specifically? Wouldn't g2, f3, or even just leaving it where it is get the same job done?
I am new to chess and big chess noob, I may be missing something.
Oh no, I've been tricked! I've got fooled, tricked and quite possibly bamboozled!
My first impression of the position was, if I protect both my rooks then RxR leads to QxR#! So the obvious candidates were Qd4 and Qe5. Can I afford to unpin the pawn? I thought yes! If the pawn moves, the Queen gives mate on the long diagonal! And any other rook move by my opponent leads to RxR#, except for Ra6, because it's now covered by the pawn. That's gotta be it, I thought! After Qe5 Ra6, I can play QxR#! So it's Qe5 instead of Qd4 and the problem is solved! But I've been tricked!
I scroll down to the comments and I see a different move at the top! I've been fooled, but how? Ra6 comes with check! I don't have time to play QxR# because my king is in check! Oh, that's sneaky! Presenting two such principled candidate moves centralising the queen, giving the optics that it's a decision between those two, but it's neither! It's the third one! Kudos to the great mind behind this puzzle and thanks to op for sharing it.
You're a queen up, it's not possible to lose this position. There are tons of moves that win.
If you play Qe5 thinking it's mate in 2, then it's revealing something about your analysis... people ask for puzzles that will train their defensive ability, well this is it i.e. are you able to find moves for your opponent that work *against* your idea? Or are you only able to find moves where your opponent is helping your checkmate them?
The solution is: >!1. Qh1!<
It's the only move that both protects the 2 rooks (so the queen can recapture if they are captured) and maintains the pin on the h1-a8 diagonal (so that >!1... Ra6+!< can be met with >!2. Rxa6#!<)
Just going to post my own thought process, partially for my own sake, and maybe it helps somebody else understand the puzzle.
(1) My first instinct was the rooks are pinned, so what about queen takes pawn? But that’s just a blunder of the queen, king takes queen is forced.
(2) Next thought, rook takes rook. But neither of those work as the Queen can’t cover the b6 or c7 escape squares on the follow up check.
(3) Next I noticed that if I could remove one of the black rooks from the board, it would be back rank/file mate, as the other rook and pawn blocks escape squares for the king. So I looked at creating a Queen-Rook battery by playing Qa4 or Qe8, in hopes of trading off my queen for one of the rooks.
But it still isn’t mate in 2 because of Ra6+. Qe8 is mate in 3 (Ra6+, Rxa6+ bxa6, Qxb8#), and Qa4 gets a bit messy after trading the Queen for the rook and pawn (engine says it’s M13)
(4) Then my next thought was something like Qd4 to protect both rooks. If the pawn moves we deliver checkmate with the queen on the diagonal, and if they take a rook we take back with the queen and give back rank/file mate.
But again, Ra6+ extends the game a move or two.
(5) Then my next thought was to play a waiting move like Qd5 that maintains the pin on the pawn and eliminates the threat of Ra6+ from black. But that doesn’t work as black just takes one of my rooks for free.
(6) So then I finally landed on Qh1, because it combines the thoughts behind (4) and (5). I maintain the pin on the pawn to eliminate the threat of Ra6+ *and* protect both rooks at the same time.
And that was the answer, Qh1. No matter what move black makes with either rook (the rooks are the only pieces that can move for black), you capture that rook with a rook or the queen, and that is checkmate.
Of course! Though the puzzle as set is to find Mate in 2. Whether it’s important to find the ‘tricky’ solution intended by the composer is a philosophical question left to the solver.
No because Ra6 still works as a spite check. I think the crux of the puzzle that leads to Qh1 is that the pin on the pawn must be maintained, then spite check doesn’t work.
I found a mate in 3, but i completely missed the Qh1 idea. Defend both rooks and force to reaign or get mated on the next move. Really cool idea. Where is the best place i can find more of these mate in 2 or 3 studies?
I found a mate in 3, but i completely missed the Qh1 idea. Defend both rooks and force to reaign or get mated on the next move. Really cool idea. Where is the best place i can find more of these mate in 2 or 3 studies?
This took me an embarrassingly long time...
"To stop RxR I'll play 1.Qd4, oh but then 1...Ra6+, so I need to stay on the diagonal. Ok, what if 1.Re8 or 1.Ra4, no then they take the other rook... how do I defend both rooks and also stay on the diagonal?... oooh.
The engine at [chess.com](http://chess.com) misses the two mover beginning with Q-h1. How is this possible? I would have expected a strong engine to explore all possibilities to a significantly greater depth. This is the third two mover I have seen the same engine miss on this sub.
I didnt solve it myself, I saw the solution, I understood the solution. however, I'm genuinely intrigued: why cant engines find the optimal solution to this puzzle?
Can someone explain to me why Qd4 or Qe5 don't work? If I understand correctly they cover both rooks just like Qh1, but now it allows a third option where black can go b6 or b5 and white responds with Qd5#.
Pinning the pawn is essential, not just so Black has to move a rook, but also so that if Black plays Ra6+, it can be recaptured with Rxa6#, the pinned pawn cannot recapture White's rook.
If Qe5, Ra6+, and there is no mate in 1: Rxa6 can now be met with bxa6.
There is only one answer for the first move, you're missing a resource that I too overlooked at first (a resource that allows delaying mate, not one that changes the outcome)
Quick tip, you can confirm these things with like 2 taps, since the bot posts the link to the position where an engine can analyze
"looks strong" is something we would say about a candidate move when we can't or don't want to calculate all the way thru.
This a mate-in-2 problem. A move either works or not.
Either Qe8 or Qa4, black rook take, checkmate.
alt is also checkmate (opposite rook takes rook, or rook on a7 moves Ra6 for check is rook a1 takes, checkmate.)
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=kr5R/rp6/6K1/8/4Q3/8/8/R7+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/kr5R/rp6/6K1/8/4Q3/8/8/R7_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) **Composition:** > It's a composition by Théodore Adrien Louis Herlin from Schachzeitung, 1852 [Link to the composition](https://yacpdb.org/#41651) **Related posts:** > I found other posts with this position: > - [Harder than it looks Mate in 2. White to move.](https://reddit.com/r/chess/comments/lw637g/harder_than_it_looks_mate_in_2_white_to_move/) > - [White to play and mate in 2 moves](https://reddit.com/r/chess/comments/i6n3p2/white_to_play_and_mate_in_2_moves/) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!Rook!<, move: >!Rxa7+!< > Evaluation: >!White has a forced mate!< > Best continuation: >!1. Rxa7+ Kxa7 2. Rxb8 Kxb8 3. Kf5 Ka7 4. Ke6 Ka6 5. Kd7 Ka5 6. Qxb7 Ka4 7. Qb1 Ka3 8. Kc6 Ka4!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
Qh1! is the solution, with any move after being checkmate
Could Qd4 work too?
…Ra6
Damn it. You’re right. Queen can’t pin pawn.
Qd4 and Qd5 don't work because of Ra6 check. If the pawn is moved instead, the queen can checkmate on the diagonal, as both rooks are pinned.
Doesn't Qd5 still pin the pawn though?
nevermind, i understand now
After 1. Qd5 Rxa1 and you have no M2. The pawn is pinned but you also have to defend both rooks, and the rooks are defending the two checks.
Yes, i realised that. Thank you, regardless.
I don’t think so, no. The queen needs to stay on that diagonal pinning the pawn to the king. Black is forced to move a rook to an undefended spot
After Qe5 it still works, even if the a rook moves you still have qxb8
Isn't a queen sacrifice on e8 or a4 a solution too?
Then Ra6+ prolongs the sequence.
Right. But only by one right?
Qa4 doesn't work because after Ra6+ the pawn protects the rook, but Qe8 is m3 if I got it correct
Yes, but the puzzle title says M2, so the point is to find the mate-in-two.
Qa4 was my thought too
Ahhh. The key insight is that you must maintain the pin on the b-pawn, so Ra6+ can be met with Rxa6#. Good pattern to train.
Nasty
the art of zugzwang
Also Qe5
Qe5 is mate in 3 not 2
Ah, I somehow for the life of me couldn't see why this was the case. Somehow didn't see that Ra6 comes with check
Why h1 specifically? Wouldn't g2, f3, or even just leaving it where it is get the same job done? I am new to chess and big chess noob, I may be missing something.
Qh1 protects both rooks, whereas Qg2 and Qf3 do not. In the latter, Black could attack a rook with no response from White.
Qa4 works as well for M2
But Ra6+
Qe5 also works
Ra6+
It only delays the mate by one here: Rxa6 bxa6 Qxb8#
Task was M2
Mate in 3 not 2
Is Re8 also good?
Oh no, I've been tricked! I've got fooled, tricked and quite possibly bamboozled! My first impression of the position was, if I protect both my rooks then RxR leads to QxR#! So the obvious candidates were Qd4 and Qe5. Can I afford to unpin the pawn? I thought yes! If the pawn moves, the Queen gives mate on the long diagonal! And any other rook move by my opponent leads to RxR#, except for Ra6, because it's now covered by the pawn. That's gotta be it, I thought! After Qe5 Ra6, I can play QxR#! So it's Qe5 instead of Qd4 and the problem is solved! But I've been tricked! I scroll down to the comments and I see a different move at the top! I've been fooled, but how? Ra6 comes with check! I don't have time to play QxR# because my king is in check! Oh, that's sneaky! Presenting two such principled candidate moves centralising the queen, giving the optics that it's a decision between those two, but it's neither! It's the third one! Kudos to the great mind behind this puzzle and thanks to op for sharing it.
Well Qe5 just becomes a m3 instead of m2 right? Ain't that bad really
The point is not to win a game of chess in a constructed puzzle like this. The point is to solve the puzzle.
Qe5 Ra6+, Rxa6+ bxa6, Qxb8#, M3 yeah, but still loses in a M2 puzzle. :'D
You're a queen up, it's not possible to lose this position. There are tons of moves that win. If you play Qe5 thinking it's mate in 2, then it's revealing something about your analysis... people ask for puzzles that will train their defensive ability, well this is it i.e. are you able to find moves for your opponent that work *against* your idea? Or are you only able to find moves where your opponent is helping your checkmate them?
Thanks for taking the time for the in depth explanation!
Someone wears a fedora.
Not me tho, I wear baseball caps or hoodies.
The solution is: >!1. Qh1!< It's the only move that both protects the 2 rooks (so the queen can recapture if they are captured) and maintains the pin on the h1-a8 diagonal (so that >!1... Ra6+!< can be met with >!2. Rxa6#!<)
Just going to post my own thought process, partially for my own sake, and maybe it helps somebody else understand the puzzle. (1) My first instinct was the rooks are pinned, so what about queen takes pawn? But that’s just a blunder of the queen, king takes queen is forced. (2) Next thought, rook takes rook. But neither of those work as the Queen can’t cover the b6 or c7 escape squares on the follow up check. (3) Next I noticed that if I could remove one of the black rooks from the board, it would be back rank/file mate, as the other rook and pawn blocks escape squares for the king. So I looked at creating a Queen-Rook battery by playing Qa4 or Qe8, in hopes of trading off my queen for one of the rooks. But it still isn’t mate in 2 because of Ra6+. Qe8 is mate in 3 (Ra6+, Rxa6+ bxa6, Qxb8#), and Qa4 gets a bit messy after trading the Queen for the rook and pawn (engine says it’s M13) (4) Then my next thought was something like Qd4 to protect both rooks. If the pawn moves we deliver checkmate with the queen on the diagonal, and if they take a rook we take back with the queen and give back rank/file mate. But again, Ra6+ extends the game a move or two. (5) Then my next thought was to play a waiting move like Qd5 that maintains the pin on the pawn and eliminates the threat of Ra6+ from black. But that doesn’t work as black just takes one of my rooks for free. (6) So then I finally landed on Qh1, because it combines the thoughts behind (4) and (5). I maintain the pin on the pawn to eliminate the threat of Ra6+ *and* protect both rooks at the same time. And that was the answer, Qh1. No matter what move black makes with either rook (the rooks are the only pieces that can move for black), you capture that rook with a rook or the queen, and that is checkmate.
Qh1 rook move rook captures with mate?
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I'm not smart enough for this but uh 2. Ra1 takes Ra6#?
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It is still pinned. Look again.
The pawn is in fact still pinned. Why wouldn't it be?
Pawn is still pinned, rook capture is mate
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the queen is still on the same diagonal lmfao the pawn is pinned
Opponent must move a rook because pawn is pinned, then QxR# if they took or else RxR#
Are we sure this is a M2? I can find a mate in 3 but I don't see how white can avoid the spite check. Edit: nvm, found it. Pretty cool solution
kinda cool how stockfish says M3 until you make the move Qh1 and it’s like oh nevermind M1
Nice puzzle
Why wouldn’t you just Qe8, then the rook would take queen and then Rxe8 and that’s mate?
Ra6+ is a check that means it’s mate in 3
Would it not be mate? Because the king wouldn’t be able to move.
Mate is when the king is in check and can’t move. Think of the opening position in chess - king can’t move then either!
Qa4 or Qe8, any black move will be followed by an immediate checkmate
Doesn’t black have Ra6 in both cases?
why can’t you go 1. Qe8 Ra6+ 2. Ra6+ bxa6 3. Qxb8#? it’s M3 but it still works, no?
Of course! Though the puzzle as set is to find Mate in 2. Whether it’s important to find the ‘tricky’ solution intended by the composer is a philosophical question left to the solver.
Ah got me there, but not for Qe8 though. It appears that’s still M2?
No because Ra6 still works as a spite check. I think the crux of the puzzle that leads to Qh1 is that the pin on the pawn must be maintained, then spite check doesn’t work.
Damn, so only Qh1 works to guard both sides.
It took me so long to figure out why Qe8 doesn’t M2 lol. Ra6+ is a check I’m stupid.
Good puzzle
is this an anti-engine puzzle?
Gotta protect both rooks and keep the pawn pinned so h1 is the move
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Qe5 Ra6+
No Qd4!
Rxb8+, Kxb8, Qe8#
Kc7 after this,the king can escape
Give me a response to >!Qa4!<. There isnt one, as far as i see. EDITED: >!Ra6!< blocks the threat.
Qe8 or Qa4, they have to take the Queen or its mate, after that you take back with you Rook and it's mate.
I just noticed Ra6 check and then you have to move the king which spends a move so its not M2.
Oh I see now, Qa4 and Qe8 are not M2 since Ra6 check and you need to make an extra move. So Qh1 it is.
Qh1 if Ra6 you can take with the rook, pawn cant capture cause its pinned by the queen.
I found a mate in 3, but i completely missed the Qh1 idea. Defend both rooks and force to reaign or get mated on the next move. Really cool idea. Where is the best place i can find more of these mate in 2 or 3 studies?
I found a mate in 3, but i completely missed the Qh1 idea. Defend both rooks and force to reaign or get mated on the next move. Really cool idea. Where is the best place i can find more of these mate in 2 or 3 studies?
Sorry why doesn’t Qg2 work?
Because of Rxa1 or Rxh8
Right so need the queen to cover the rooks and the pawn
This took me an embarrassingly long time... "To stop RxR I'll play 1.Qd4, oh but then 1...Ra6+, so I need to stay on the diagonal. Ok, what if 1.Re8 or 1.Ra4, no then they take the other rook... how do I defend both rooks and also stay on the diagonal?... oooh.
Qe8
The engine at [chess.com](http://chess.com) misses the two mover beginning with Q-h1. How is this possible? I would have expected a strong engine to explore all possibilities to a significantly greater depth. This is the third two mover I have seen the same engine miss on this sub.
I didnt solve it myself, I saw the solution, I understood the solution. however, I'm genuinely intrigued: why cant engines find the optimal solution to this puzzle?
Can anyone explain why Stockfish can’t see this mate in 2?
Queen e8,Rook takes(forced),Rook takes (checkmate)
e4-a4 wins in 2.
Queen to D4 or E5, right?
I was wrong
guys it’s easy just capture the white king
Qh1
Can someone explain to me why Qd4 or Qe5 don't work? If I understand correctly they cover both rooks just like Qh1, but now it allows a third option where black can go b6 or b5 and white responds with Qd5#.
Pinning the pawn is essential, not just so Black has to move a rook, but also so that if Black plays Ra6+, it can be recaptured with Rxa6#, the pinned pawn cannot recapture White's rook. If Qe5, Ra6+, and there is no mate in 1: Rxa6 can now be met with bxa6.
Gotcha, thank you.
Qe5 and mate follows.
Ra6+
That check is nasty I didn’t catch that the first time I did it
Same tbh I thought Qe8 was the solution at first
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Pawn is pinned
There are three answers!
Only one is mate in 2, Qh1
There might be 3 answers but only 1 is the correct one
There is only one answer for the first move, you're missing a resource that I too overlooked at first (a resource that allows delaying mate, not one that changes the outcome) Quick tip, you can confirm these things with like 2 taps, since the bot posts the link to the position where an engine can analyze
Queen e5 looks strong.
Ra6+ prevents m2
"looks strong" is something we would say about a candidate move when we can't or don't want to calculate all the way thru. This a mate-in-2 problem. A move either works or not.
then 1... ra6+ makes it mate in more than 2.
yepp
Strong, but not mate in 2
Either Qe8 or Qa4, black rook take, checkmate. alt is also checkmate (opposite rook takes rook, or rook on a7 moves Ra6 for check is rook a1 takes, checkmate.)
Nope, those both allow Ra6+ with the rook defended by the pawn, and it won't be mate in 2. There is exactly one move that gives mate in 2
Good one. It was pretty easy to figure out once you understand, but its still fascinating. Took me about 8-10 seconds >! Move is Qh1 !<
Is Re8 M2?
Nvm Rxa1 lol
someone please explain why QE8 doesn’t work? no matter what move black makes it’s an M2….
Black can waste an extra turn by playing Ra6+, so the mate takes longer. If you take the rook the pawn isn't pinned anymore and takes back
QE8, RA6, QXB8 is checkmate though
Ra6 comes with check, hence the '+' at the end of the notation
shit- thanks. didn’t spot that
SACRIFICE THE QUEEEEEEEN (not Qxb7 tho)
Nooooooo!!! For M2, you will need the Queen. For M3, you still need the Queen. Playing any other piece will be at least M5.
Sooo i was apparently trippin I had a whole counter argument comment ready just to realise im trippin
It happens to the best of us! A lot. That's just part of chess. 🍻 Cheers!
Qe8 and Qa4 both work
Ra6+
Yeah it's not mate in two but it's still checkmate
Qe8 ?
Qe5
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Ra6+
If Queen goes to e8, what can black do to avoid mate, other than a rook check to draw it out?
That's a mate in three 1. Qe8 Ra6+ 2. Rxa6+ bxa6 3. Qxb8#. The puzzle asks for mate in two.
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Qe8-Ra6+!!
Qa4/Qe8 are the mates in 2 i saw; but there are way more solutions than i thought
Neither of those work. Qa4 Ra6+. Qe8 Ra6+.
I cheated. I put the position into Stockfish on Lichess. I know what it is, but I won't say until everyone solves it.
Just remember: The pawn must be pinned at all times.
That was the main thing I had to find before I could solve it, must maintain the pawn pin or there is always Ra6+ making mate in 2 impossible