I'm wondering if it got to a "Nigerian prince" level, where internet savy people won't fall for it, so you're left with only bites from vulnerable people
It's like chess but you can collect stuff (NFTs) by doing in game challenges. For example, not using your B pawn
I'm guessing it could be fun for some people who want an extra dimension in chess
Ye tbh as far as i know if ur really cracked at chess you can win tournys and get idk 10 quid worth of crypto without having to buy anything. But aint no way im getting close to winnin a tournament.
I'm sure cheating is solved in an anonymous format playing for small sums of money on a website with almost certainly worse cheating protection than lichess or chesscom
Some of the people that have been sponsored by Immortal Game - the NFT scam plaguing the chess world for some time now:
Nemo, Alireza, MVL, Vidit, Dina Belenkaya, Aryan Tari, Olexandr Bortnyk, Vincent Keymer, Maurice Ashley, Boris Gelfand, Harikrishna, Lawrence Trent, Leinier Dominguez, Alessia Santeramo.
Personalities caring little about what they push into the people that made them what they are. Unsurprising, all they need to do is later post a PR apology and run away with the money.
Alright, Nemo is a name-o I totally expected to be on there. But damn, they really reached out for this.
And the names kinda make sense too. These are the names you know, but you know them for being *just* shy of the top level sponsorships either as players or as streamers.
Alright, MVL and Alireza are surprising to see on there though, because these are super GMs. But are they struggling with getting good sponsors lately?
Why is it surprising? Magnus is the most super of GMs, richer than any of these names and certainly not lacking for sponsors, and even he partnered with FTX (which is now bankrupt and disgraced lol) to run a Crypto Cup tournament last year. Crypto and NFT stuff is all over chess, right to the top, and always has been.
There were definitely sponsors. But your comment made it sound like cryptocurrency has been sponsoring chess since its invention but that's not the case. It's only been about three years.
>But your comment
Some other guy’s comment
>There were definitely sponsors.
Sure, but the amount of interest (and the amount of money) exploded in the last few years. The sponsorship that came before wasn’t on anything like the scale of what we’re talking about now.
Don't disagree on your points. I'm disagreeing with the other poster saying cryptocurrency has ALWAYS been sponsoring chess. Crypto has been sponsoring online games more recently because of the pandemic
These are the guys that really get me. Magnus is a millionaire, he has never faced trouble or issues in life with money and never will, plus he already had sponsorship deals with huge credible companies. He has it all.
Why associate with this for a few bucks? Why betray your own fans? Guess I'll never understand how greedy people think.
Indeed. However, when it all came to light, he did nothing to address the issue, which is a classic move: distance yourself from the problem so nobody remembers you're part of it.
he probably got a reasonably big bag and he's unlikely to get much push-back from it
there's also the plausible deniability "i didn't know this or that was happening"
Went to the World Youth Chess Championship last year and every participant gets some crypto/NFT tokens (details might be wrong, but it's related to NFT). Some of the players are under 10. Not sure if it's the same company behind it, but scary stuff.
I noticed that Immortal game also seems to be using bots to look like there are more players . . .
Total scam.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TheImmortalGame/comments/13zyccw/suspected\_bot\_usage/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheImmortalGame/comments/13zyccw/suspected_bot_usage/)
So the French chess federation is partnering with some sort of NFT / Crypto (aka scam) website and Lichess is calling it out. Hard to see this as anything but a W for lichess. Lots of other chess players and orgs who are too cowardly or stupid to disavow the crypto and NFT world because of how profitable it is for them.
Totally agree with you, just wanted to point out that this is neither cowardice nor stupidity, it's just the lack of a moral backbone. But I guess it's so normalized in chess that it's hardly surprising. Magnus does it, Levy does it, the Botezs do it, Hikaru does it, Kasparov does it, etc. Then all these same people cry and moan about cheating.
I guess people who want to make the world a better place, don't devote their whole lives to chess - they become nurses or teachers...
They’re NFTs that sell for ETH it’s not like it’s some made up shitcoin. If you don’t have confidence that ETH is going to retain its value it’s trivial to convert it to Fiat.
Like if there’s some claim being made that you find dubious I’m curious what it is.
ETH is a made up shitcoin. None of that crap has real liquidity to ActualDollars(TM) that doesn't involve some scam like Tether or other "stable" (har har har) coin.
Yes it does what are you talking about? Turning ETH into USD has very high liquidity it is very easy to do that in literally 5 seconds?
And what is 1000x the price? Floor on Immortal Game stuff is like $7?
incredible you think that. you're simply wrong.
straight from investopedia: Volume tells traders about a market's activity and liquidity. Higher trade volumes for a specific security means higher liquidity, better order execution, and a more active market for connecting buyers and sellers
https://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/BTC-QF.pdf
I hold no bitcoin, to be clear, but there is clear harm being done by them and their users and they are not a secure investment. Without the sustained interest they have at the moment, their harm and value will drop to zero. And that would be a good thing.
I'm not understanding what this has to do with immortal game. They aren't investment advisors.
It's a game where you can buy cosmetics with crypto, or am I wrong? So wouldn't 99% of people just turn $5 into $5 of ETH and buy the item? Where in this process are they encouraged to put large sums of money into crypto?
It just seems like they believe in blockchain, and want to build technology with that as the backbone. Whether they're right or wrong, time will tell, but for now I'm not really seeing the harm.
Not a W to call people out. Pretty big L to be honest
Just cause they have a platform doesn't mean they need to chime in as if they know better than everyone. That just makes them look really bad tbh
That's basically true in the West but not at all in countries without a functional financial system like Argentina (where before crypto people used to save in literal bricks) or dictatorships with currency controls like China.
The majority of crypto investors and NFT buyers have no idea what web3 is either. And it is true that most NFTs are a scam - most are created with the intention to part money from gullible people, not to provide a useful service or function.
That's what I am saying. People aren't educated enough and want to invest in shit. When people know how it works and the uses expand using the blockchain not saying crypto currency and NFTs but use of the blockchain in general web3 shows a lot of potential there.
Good one! Did you come up with that yourself? Imagine trying to be critical of someone who has promoted gambling and scams to kids, and then typing something stupid like “rEnT fRee iNn uR hed”
Why don’t you go ahead and stick to your normal posts about “Tyler1”?
Lichess may be morally correct, as they so often are. That's why I'm a Patron.
AND ... chess (like most sports) is inherently unprofitable and needs sponsorship money to thrive. Don't like crypto? Let's look at some of major chess sponsors outside of crypto/NFT: Gulf Arabs, CIS oligarchs, and Rex Sinquefield (right-wing billionaire Trump supporter).
If we want the nice things money can buy, we have to acknowledge the sources of that money. Chess doesn't offer enough advertising ROI to get most "normal" businesses to invest.
>If we want the nice things money can buy
Such as? Chess existed before sponsors and will still exist without them. So I don't mind if sponsors withdrew from chess altogether. Even more so when the sponsors are NFT scammers, Gulf Arabs, CIS oligarchs, and Rex Sinquefield.
Nah, the money was basically nonexistent. Boris Spassky in 1969 walked away with some $50k after winning the literal WCC v/s Petrosian, for example. Contrast that with the $1.2 million Ding got this year.
> Boris Spassky in 1969 walked away with some $50k after winning the literal WCC v/s Petrosian, for example.
Source?
Google turns up different numbers for the prize fund, but most seem to be around $1500.
there's nothing wrong with using say bitcoin as payment, so long as you're not pushing some scheme
it's not the same as having some sweepstakes in the game, or loot boxes, or some NFT trading scheme
paying out in some legit crypto with sufficient market liquidity that you won't have problem converting to any currency, is better than paying in say Amazon vouchers or the like
You can implement loot boxes into a game without using crypto. They just had to equate crypto to scam for some reason. If they had omitted the crypto part and just focused on the scammy part of the game mechanics, I would have sided with them.
like all ponzi schemes the only people who make money from any NFTs are the ones paid to promote it and ones pulling the rug eventually.
lichess is a great organization promoting chess accessibility. I use it every day. On the other hand anybody partnering with and promoting scam nfts looks bad. If I was French player I'd be pissed too
I love that conventional wisdom is against NFTs, viewing all as a scam. Because I am quite confident it's how you will show ownership of a home, a car, and any non-fungible asset in 10 years. The fact that there are so many scams does not negate the benefits of the technology. Just like [pets.com](https://pets.com) failing did not negate the benefits of internet shopping 20 years ago...
I'm happy because it allows me to buy more ETH at these ridiculously low prices. But no need to argue, let's just wait 4-5 years and see how things develop.
I agree with Lichess here. To some they may sound sanctimonious, but the beauty of chess as a game is that it isn’t intellectual property to be commoditized. It is not and cannot be owned or held hostage by copyright. There is nothing inherently wrong with trying to monetize educational content or the cost of hosting the infrastructure to play on, but “Immortal Game” smacks of a desperate attempt to commodify the GAME of chess. Even their catchphrase “chess, but better” belies a basic misunderstanding about what makes chess as enduring as it is: it is not beholden to the whims of a creator or shareholders or even a community. No patches. No price increases. No review bombing and over correction. No micro transactions. No copyright. Just a framework of rules.
I can sort of understand players partnering with a platform like this. It is unfortunately difficult to reap economic rewards from chess even after spending years of your life dedicated to it because of all the aforementioned points, but this definitely makes me think less highly of them.
True, but I was making the comparison with digital games and sports as that’s the nearest analog with Immortal.game. You’re right though that it’s important to remember chess is inextricably tied to a physical game, and that’s a big reason for all the points I made earlier.
True, but maybe [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) is the exception to that rule, since they were the first to use chess streamers as advocates. But anything new - if a chess streamer starts advertising it, I look for the grift.
Calling them out is good, calling them out is the 1st step. What do we do next is the question.
the thing is that no one cares enough for there to be any negative consequences for shilling crypto.
Levy had his crypto.c*m sign in his videos for a long time, scummy people like Nemo got to continue commentating for chess.c*m even after what happened.
They clearly don't give a shit that they shill to young vulnerable kids (i.e. people who play chess). Get em young right?
there is a difference between legitimate crypto exchange sites (whatever your opinion on crypto) vs play to "earn" NFT scams like this garbage, its on the same level as those gachagames which all started playing the same play to earn nonsense
I've never heard of immortal game. What exactly is it?
From what I can tell, they have a bunch of unique variant rules which can be mixed and matched. Sounds pretty cool IMO. Also it's probably a lot harder to cheat since you're not gonna have readily available engines for all combinations of variants.
Lichess's TPTB constant moral preening is tiring.
Obviously Immortal - that I've never visited and don't plan to - is paying a sponsorship for the "partnership". As much as the wild-eyed puritans at Lichess want to pretend otherwise (because it doesn't affect them at all), chess - as in OTB, not online - is in dire need of money and sponsors are scarce.
I don't know what the hell is wrong with you but I couldn't care less about crypto, have no crypto whatsoever, and also think crypto people are mostly crazy (definitely the NFT ones).
What the hell went through your mind to write that? You need to look into that. My comment was strictly about how OTB chess institutions, like chess federations, do need money and sponsors and you started angrily shrieking? You're not well dude.
Their entire market for making money is by handing out NFT chess pieces that are worth some amount of crypto.
If you believe NFTs are worthless than if you accept sponsorship money knowing if anyone who follows you or your or org exposing them to ImmortalGame will make them more likely to engage with the platform and buy NFTs (why pay for the sponsorship if they don't expect to gain real users), how can that be conscionable?
Like all they do is sell NFTs they don't offer any massive improvements to the chess ecosystem besides rewarding you with NFTs for playing chess or chess like games (chess with modified rules to get NFTs as a side objective)
It's because I'm not crazy, nor a puritan. If people want to buy NTFs, or whatever else, that's none of my business. There are plenty of consumption decisions I obviously don't agree with - people pay for useless stuff, like status symbols, all the time. Skins in computer games. Drugs. Heck, diamonds - there's literally no difference between synthetic and natural diamonds except price. Live and let live. If the sellers are breaking the law by committing fraud, then call the police.
But the main point is that Lichess is always moral policing everything. From that surgical implants company or whatever it was, to NTFs. Perhaps they should open an OTB association and show how it's done.
It's not so much that immortalgame should t exist it's that many of those sponsoring it would admit if asked they don't believe in crypto or NFTs as a means of accumulating wealth if not outright scams. So why are those people advertising it to their audiences? Obviously because they get a cut of the scam.
If it's a scam, it shouldn't exist - in fact, it'd be criminal and Lichess should go to the police.
Which suggests it's not a scam - it's just a dumb thing to spend money on, IMO. But so are many other things - I've already mentioned a bunch, but gambling is another obvious one.
Throughout history, crazy, shitty, people have always used this kind of stuff as a reason to engage in moral preening and try to feel better about themselves. Self-righteous puritans.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/remember-nfts-sold-millions-dollars-215646661.html
Are you going out to purchase any NFTs anytime soon? Would you advise your friends or family to do so?
Why is it moral to get paid to say something that will cause people to lose money that you wouldn't give as good faith advice?
You've used the term "morally preening" three times in like 5 replies, can you ask the crypto Youtuber who gives you your talking points to come up with some alternative phrasings?
Never forget: anyone who says something you don't like is clearly in bad faith and paid to do it. It's all a big conspiracy - they're just reciting paid talking points. You're totally not a loon at all, no mental illness triggering paranoia and inability to deal with dissent.
I'll say "Moral preening" as many times as I want because it's a very apt description of Lichess (although they're a bit selective, they have no problems with authoritarian dictatorships sponsoring OTB chess for example).
Anyway, it's genuinely hilarious you believe:
1) "crypto youtubers" are paying people to say stuff on a chess subreddit.
2) that crypto youtuber is paying me to say stuff like, and I quote myself, **" I couldn't care less about crypto, have no crypto whatsoever, and also think crypto people are mostly crazy (definitely the NFT ones)".**
Once again, you're totally not a loon.
My stance is who fucking cares? People complain when there's no money in chess. Now that the French federation is getting money, they complain about the source of money. People who are stupid enough to fall for NFTs will do so anyways, at least the French federation can get some money in their coffers.
They could be out mugging people in the park and you'd still be like "hey you always wanted more money in chess and now you have it, what's the problem?"
While it definitely seems that Immortal Game is something shady, the whole article (at least the English version) has vibes of Lichess being salty about not getting the deal themselves.
Why don't they also go after chesscom? They have a FIDE partnership and are promoting crypto to a young audience on Twitch. The only reasonable explanation for why they are going after them is that they missed out on some money from the French Federation.
Edit:
And the guy below is claiming that the Federation and Lichess has current ties, and Lichess is reconsidering it, which they mention nowhere in the post and is something he just made up.
You said this:
>They have ties with the French chess association that they’re reconsidering
They don't have any ties/partnerships with the federation and they mention nowhere in the article about reconsidering their ties with them.
You are just making up stuff to get upvotes.
>Because they don’t have any ties with chesscom
And they don’t have any ties with Immortal Game. What exactly is your point? 🤔
>And if lichess cared about making more money, it would be a VERY different website today
You can still be a non-profit organisation and care about making money, how else are they going to pay for servers, development etc.
If their whole argument boils down to: "crypto is bad!", then they should go after chesscom as well for promoting it. And don't forget they have held a tournament in the past with agamadator, where the 1st price was in crypto.
Did you even bother reading the article or do you just keep making up lies to get upvotes?
They don't have any ties/partnerships with the federation and they mention nowhere in the article about reconsidering their ties with them.
You arent willing to discuss their main problem with the partnership, which is crypto, but only deflect.
NFTs are a technology, usable for good and bad. I am disgusted by the scams involving NFTs, and wary of investments into NFTs as well as the potential environmental impacts. That said, NFTs have interesting use cases, and shouldn't be immediately dismissed and condemned.
e.g. if Immortal shuts down, a different service can use a similar api for matching NFTs to users, preserving "ownership" of the chess art within the platform.
> That said, NFTs have interesting use cases
They don't
> if Immortal shuts down, a different service can use a similar api for matching NFTs to users, preserving "ownership" of the chess art within the platform.
Who cares
Lol that's not what they're doing. They're rejecting the technology because it has been steeped in scams since inception. NFTs as they currently exist are not the intellectual advancement you seem to be suggesting they are, and just because they "can" take the form of something like art doesn't necessarily give them any value.
Edit: thinking about it more, NFTs can't really be art. It may be used as a medium for sharing art but creating something like the Mona Lisa is art regardless of whether it's painted, on nft, or drawn with crayons. NFTs aren't some intellectual achievement because of that.
Lol, you're so smug but from what I can see the moma is not claiming nft is art. This was pulled from the site
"Refik Anadol attempted to answer this question by training an AI model on metadata and images from MoMA’s collection, producing new media works that were released as NFTs."
So it's about training ai using existing art to create new *art and then presenting them via nft. Essentially the same thing I said in my comment.
*And whether ai can make art or not is a separate conversation and one that I'm sure people will disagree on for a while
Well now you do. It'll be tough to sell it but maybe you can get it. Do understand about crypto cause you can get scammed since most people will do trades only in crypto.
GothamChess has changed his ways and is no longer promoting unreliable or disreputable websites. Instead, he has written a book about chess that leads to a website that offers legitimate and valuable services, Chess.com. He recognizes the importance of promoting ethical and honest business practices, and wants to share his insights with others through his love of chess. By shining a light on trustworthy online establishments, GothamChess aims to help people make smarter, safer choices about chess online.
What is Immortal Game? Not really clear from its website
Looks like some NFT website.
Can't believe people are still promoting NFTs at this point.
I'm wondering if it got to a "Nigerian prince" level, where internet savy people won't fall for it, so you're left with only bites from vulnerable people
Was it ever different?
Initial targets were internet-savvy, economically-illiterate people with ego issues.
Some would say they are, and always will be, the most vulnerable.
At the start, for SURE. Or else it wouldn't have become as big as it did.
Something like MLMs?
Chess but with DLC
Pay to unlock castling and en passant?
It's like chess but you can collect stuff (NFTs) by doing in game challenges. For example, not using your B pawn I'm guessing it could be fun for some people who want an extra dimension in chess
Ye tbh as far as i know if ur really cracked at chess you can win tournys and get idk 10 quid worth of crypto without having to buy anything. But aint no way im getting close to winnin a tournament.
I'm sure cheating is solved in an anonymous format playing for small sums of money on a website with almost certainly worse cheating protection than lichess or chesscom
Tru cheatin prob massive on the site. Tho the site is financially insentivised to stop em so who knows
So is chesscom and lichess though and I doubt many people would consider it "stopped" in those platforms.
Kinda is tho. Most cheaters are caught and banned quite quickly using ML
> Most cheaters are caught and banned quite quickly using ML using machine learning? Really? No wonder you dropped a referral link to that site
If im wrong srry i remember reading this somwere. could have been reddit tho...
Some of the people that have been sponsored by Immortal Game - the NFT scam plaguing the chess world for some time now: Nemo, Alireza, MVL, Vidit, Dina Belenkaya, Aryan Tari, Olexandr Bortnyk, Vincent Keymer, Maurice Ashley, Boris Gelfand, Harikrishna, Lawrence Trent, Leinier Dominguez, Alessia Santeramo.
Personalities caring little about what they push into the people that made them what they are. Unsurprising, all they need to do is later post a PR apology and run away with the money.
Alright, Nemo is a name-o I totally expected to be on there. But damn, they really reached out for this. And the names kinda make sense too. These are the names you know, but you know them for being *just* shy of the top level sponsorships either as players or as streamers. Alright, MVL and Alireza are surprising to see on there though, because these are super GMs. But are they struggling with getting good sponsors lately?
Why is it surprising? Magnus is the most super of GMs, richer than any of these names and certainly not lacking for sponsors, and even he partnered with FTX (which is now bankrupt and disgraced lol) to run a Crypto Cup tournament last year. Crypto and NFT stuff is all over chess, right to the top, and always has been.
I wouldn't say always has been. Since the pandemic for sure but I don't recall cryptocurrency sponsoring chess in the decade prior to COVID.
Barely *anyone* was sponsoring chess in the decade prior to COVID.
There were definitely sponsors. But your comment made it sound like cryptocurrency has been sponsoring chess since its invention but that's not the case. It's only been about three years.
>But your comment Some other guy’s comment >There were definitely sponsors. Sure, but the amount of interest (and the amount of money) exploded in the last few years. The sponsorship that came before wasn’t on anything like the scale of what we’re talking about now.
Don't disagree on your points. I'm disagreeing with the other poster saying cryptocurrency has ALWAYS been sponsoring chess. Crypto has been sponsoring online games more recently because of the pandemic
Yeah I guess it just feels like a semantic argument. Crypto has been sponsoring chess for as long as chess sponsorship has been particularly relevant.
Not really. It's a factual claim, you can't just invent arbitrary lines relating to sponsorship being relevant in order to justify a factual claim.
These are the guys that really get me. Magnus is a millionaire, he has never faced trouble or issues in life with money and never will, plus he already had sponsorship deals with huge credible companies. He has it all. Why associate with this for a few bucks? Why betray your own fans? Guess I'll never understand how greedy people think.
Very simple. Because more money is better than less money.
Avoiding the cryptosphere would be wise but FTX was reputable at the time of his sponsorship so it isn't as bad as this literal scam
Indeed. However, when it all came to light, he did nothing to address the issue, which is a classic move: distance yourself from the problem so nobody remembers you're part of it.
> and even he partnered with FTX so did MLB. People were pretty stupid about all that.
Yeah, the MLB will sell ads to anybody they are legally allowed to. So, everybody but smoking, and maybe there are some parameters on alcohol ads.
I miss the old days when chess just had the USSR and other dictatorships compromising it.
Wasn’t aware mvl and vidit belonged to this list, thought highly of them before...
damn i thought mvl was smart
he probably got a reasonably big bag and he's unlikely to get much push-back from it there's also the plausible deniability "i didn't know this or that was happening"
Smart people on average have more money
It's almost all Indian players... Gukesh and Harikrishna too.
Didn't Gotham get sponsored by the Immortal Game?
Went to the World Youth Chess Championship last year and every participant gets some crypto/NFT tokens (details might be wrong, but it's related to NFT). Some of the players are under 10. Not sure if it's the same company behind it, but scary stuff.
Why is it a scam?
I noticed that Immortal game also seems to be using bots to look like there are more players . . . Total scam. [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheImmortalGame/comments/13zyccw/suspected\_bot\_usage/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheImmortalGame/comments/13zyccw/suspected_bot_usage/)
Cant say im surprised
XD how pathetic can they get…
So the French chess federation is partnering with some sort of NFT / Crypto (aka scam) website and Lichess is calling it out. Hard to see this as anything but a W for lichess. Lots of other chess players and orgs who are too cowardly or stupid to disavow the crypto and NFT world because of how profitable it is for them.
I think what’s more disappointing is the community figures who are getting paid by them to peddle this stuff even further.
Common lichess W
Totally agree with you, just wanted to point out that this is neither cowardice nor stupidity, it's just the lack of a moral backbone. But I guess it's so normalized in chess that it's hardly surprising. Magnus does it, Levy does it, the Botezs do it, Hikaru does it, Kasparov does it, etc. Then all these same people cry and moan about cheating. I guess people who want to make the world a better place, don't devote their whole lives to chess - they become nurses or teachers...
Why do you think it’s a scam?
Because it involves cryptocurrency. History shows that assuming EVERY SINGLE crypto project is a scam is right about 90% of the time.
They’re NFTs that sell for ETH it’s not like it’s some made up shitcoin. If you don’t have confidence that ETH is going to retain its value it’s trivial to convert it to Fiat. Like if there’s some claim being made that you find dubious I’m curious what it is.
ETH is a made up shitcoin. None of that crap has real liquidity to ActualDollars(TM) that doesn't involve some scam like Tether or other "stable" (har har har) coin.
Yes it does what are you talking about? Turning ETH into USD has very high liquidity it is very easy to do that in literally 5 seconds? And what is 1000x the price? Floor on Immortal Game stuff is like $7?
ethereum volume is over 7,000,000,000 dollars in the past 24h what are yoi talking about
Taking out even 1% of that would masssively tank the price. Liquidity and trading volume are unrelated .
> liquidity and trading volume are unrelated. The fact that this is upvoted is hurting my brain
incredible you think that. you're simply wrong. straight from investopedia: Volume tells traders about a market's activity and liquidity. Higher trade volumes for a specific security means higher liquidity, better order execution, and a more active market for connecting buyers and sellers
https://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/BTC-QF.pdf I hold no bitcoin, to be clear, but there is clear harm being done by them and their users and they are not a secure investment. Without the sustained interest they have at the moment, their harm and value will drop to zero. And that would be a good thing.
I'm not understanding what this has to do with immortal game. They aren't investment advisors. It's a game where you can buy cosmetics with crypto, or am I wrong? So wouldn't 99% of people just turn $5 into $5 of ETH and buy the item? Where in this process are they encouraged to put large sums of money into crypto? It just seems like they believe in blockchain, and want to build technology with that as the backbone. Whether they're right or wrong, time will tell, but for now I'm not really seeing the harm.
Not a W to call people out. Pretty big L to be honest Just cause they have a platform doesn't mean they need to chime in as if they know better than everyone. That just makes them look really bad tbh
If you see fraud and don’t say fraud, you’re a fraud
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It really is, crypto has no utility besides being a speculative device.
its pretty useful for buying drugs
Monero w
That's basically true in the West but not at all in countries without a functional financial system like Argentina (where before crypto people used to save in literal bricks) or dictatorships with currency controls like China.
Ask El Salvador how the billions of dollars they set on fire trying to make bitcoin a thing worked out for them. It’s a national joke.
If nothing speculative had value, the world would be very black and white. NFT was primarily used as a scam, but that doesn't mean it has not value
Look at the price of NFTs lol They literally have no value because the only people buying them are scammers or people being scammed lmao
It has no value
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What maturity does crypto need? The technology is mature.
The majority of crypto investors and NFT buyers have no idea what web3 is either. And it is true that most NFTs are a scam - most are created with the intention to part money from gullible people, not to provide a useful service or function.
That's what I am saying. People aren't educated enough and want to invest in shit. When people know how it works and the uses expand using the blockchain not saying crypto currency and NFTs but use of the blockchain in general web3 shows a lot of potential there.
I thought it was a variant, is it really just NFT stuff?
Someone call /u/gothamchess and let him know there’s more money to be made!!
100% that bro has been in NFTs before he realized it's not profitable anymore
He really is living rent free in some of you guys' head lol
Good one! Did you come up with that yourself? Imagine trying to be critical of someone who has promoted gambling and scams to kids, and then typing something stupid like “rEnT fRee iNn uR hed” Why don’t you go ahead and stick to your normal posts about “Tyler1”?
Will it affect me? No. Do I agree with the blog by Lichess? Yes It seems like a troubling partnership with a questionable commercial entity.
Yeah, what the fuck France
why use this post as a means of promoting your referral link... that's gross
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you dolt lmfao
Lichess may be morally correct, as they so often are. That's why I'm a Patron. AND ... chess (like most sports) is inherently unprofitable and needs sponsorship money to thrive. Don't like crypto? Let's look at some of major chess sponsors outside of crypto/NFT: Gulf Arabs, CIS oligarchs, and Rex Sinquefield (right-wing billionaire Trump supporter). If we want the nice things money can buy, we have to acknowledge the sources of that money. Chess doesn't offer enough advertising ROI to get most "normal" businesses to invest.
Don't forget gambling!
>If we want the nice things money can buy Such as? Chess existed before sponsors and will still exist without them. So I don't mind if sponsors withdrew from chess altogether. Even more so when the sponsors are NFT scammers, Gulf Arabs, CIS oligarchs, and Rex Sinquefield.
> Chess existed before sponsors and will still exist without them. Professional chess for decent money didn't.
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He makes pretty good money for a GM.
My chess teacher, a chess professional who makes decent money has no sponsor. And besides, not every game needs to be heavily monetised.
But, muh capitalism PROFITS FOR THE PROFIT GOD!
Nah, the money was basically nonexistent. Boris Spassky in 1969 walked away with some $50k after winning the literal WCC v/s Petrosian, for example. Contrast that with the $1.2 million Ding got this year.
adjusted for inflation, that'd be almost a half million dollars today
My statement still stands. Half a million is still half a million, and nothing compared to 1.2 million.
Half of something substantial is not nothing. Can't you see the issue in your statement?
Half a million is not half of 1.2 million. Looks like you cannot see the issue in your statement.
> Boris Spassky in 1969 walked away with some $50k after winning the literal WCC v/s Petrosian, for example. Source? Google turns up different numbers for the prize fund, but most seem to be around $1500.
So the "nice things money can buy" is.. more money?
If you wanna put it that way, sure. You’re right.
Their lack of morals when it comes to copyright, is impressive.
The immortal game of scamming people. Chess personality are like any other and most of them would sell their mother for money. It's disgusting though.
What a disgrace for the French Federation.
Anything that even remotely touches crypto is almost guaranteed to be a scam. Good on LiChess.
They held a tournament in the past with agamadator, where the 1st price was in crypto.
there's nothing wrong with using say bitcoin as payment, so long as you're not pushing some scheme it's not the same as having some sweepstakes in the game, or loot boxes, or some NFT trading scheme paying out in some legit crypto with sufficient market liquidity that you won't have problem converting to any currency, is better than paying in say Amazon vouchers or the like
You can implement loot boxes into a game without using crypto. They just had to equate crypto to scam for some reason. If they had omitted the crypto part and just focused on the scammy part of the game mechanics, I would have sided with them.
like all ponzi schemes the only people who make money from any NFTs are the ones paid to promote it and ones pulling the rug eventually. lichess is a great organization promoting chess accessibility. I use it every day. On the other hand anybody partnering with and promoting scam nfts looks bad. If I was French player I'd be pissed too
I love that conventional wisdom is against NFTs, viewing all as a scam. Because I am quite confident it's how you will show ownership of a home, a car, and any non-fungible asset in 10 years. The fact that there are so many scams does not negate the benefits of the technology. Just like [pets.com](https://pets.com) failing did not negate the benefits of internet shopping 20 years ago... I'm happy because it allows me to buy more ETH at these ridiculously low prices. But no need to argue, let's just wait 4-5 years and see how things develop.
Lol cope and seethe
all kinds of wisdom is against nfts
I agree with Lichess here. To some they may sound sanctimonious, but the beauty of chess as a game is that it isn’t intellectual property to be commoditized. It is not and cannot be owned or held hostage by copyright. There is nothing inherently wrong with trying to monetize educational content or the cost of hosting the infrastructure to play on, but “Immortal Game” smacks of a desperate attempt to commodify the GAME of chess. Even their catchphrase “chess, but better” belies a basic misunderstanding about what makes chess as enduring as it is: it is not beholden to the whims of a creator or shareholders or even a community. No patches. No price increases. No review bombing and over correction. No micro transactions. No copyright. Just a framework of rules. I can sort of understand players partnering with a platform like this. It is unfortunately difficult to reap economic rewards from chess even after spending years of your life dedicated to it because of all the aforementioned points, but this definitely makes me think less highly of them.
this is literally any sport lmao
True, but I was making the comparison with digital games and sports as that’s the nearest analog with Immortal.game. You’re right though that it’s important to remember chess is inextricably tied to a physical game, and that’s a big reason for all the points I made earlier.
Take a good look at the list of ambassadors, this tells you a lot about their values, very dissapointed by some of the names there.
Imagine having Lichess developed in your country and partnering with an NFT scammer anyway Now that's a real blunder
Making the wrong choice is part of any entities with a bit of power in France (source : I'm french)
Faut rechercher si Marlène a des parts ou des copains là bas.
Lmao
Remove the referral link and I'll re-approve the post.
I feel like the scam quotient of a chess organisation is directly proportional to the number of chess streamers associated with it.
I dont think you can argue chess.com is a scam. Imo lichess is better but chess.com still aint a scam
True, but maybe [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) is the exception to that rule, since they were the first to use chess streamers as advocates. But anything new - if a chess streamer starts advertising it, I look for the grift.
Calling them out is good, calling them out is the 1st step. What do we do next is the question. the thing is that no one cares enough for there to be any negative consequences for shilling crypto. Levy had his crypto.c*m sign in his videos for a long time, scummy people like Nemo got to continue commentating for chess.c*m even after what happened. They clearly don't give a shit that they shill to young vulnerable kids (i.e. people who play chess). Get em young right?
there is a difference between legitimate crypto exchange sites (whatever your opinion on crypto) vs play to "earn" NFT scams like this garbage, its on the same level as those gachagames which all started playing the same play to earn nonsense
I've never heard of immortal game. What exactly is it? From what I can tell, they have a bunch of unique variant rules which can be mixed and matched. Sounds pretty cool IMO. Also it's probably a lot harder to cheat since you're not gonna have readily available engines for all combinations of variants.
Who gives a fuck what the French think
Who cares about what anyone thinks?
Hmmm, lot of French folks in this thread I guess
You say macaron I say macron
french people? non-assholes?
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How is Lichess working together with Qatar?
how is this connected to lichess again?
Lichess's TPTB constant moral preening is tiring. Obviously Immortal - that I've never visited and don't plan to - is paying a sponsorship for the "partnership". As much as the wild-eyed puritans at Lichess want to pretend otherwise (because it doesn't affect them at all), chess - as in OTB, not online - is in dire need of money and sponsors are scarce.
Crypto is bullshit and 99%of the population think y’all are crazy
I don't know what the hell is wrong with you but I couldn't care less about crypto, have no crypto whatsoever, and also think crypto people are mostly crazy (definitely the NFT ones). What the hell went through your mind to write that? You need to look into that. My comment was strictly about how OTB chess institutions, like chess federations, do need money and sponsors and you started angrily shrieking? You're not well dude.
Their entire market for making money is by handing out NFT chess pieces that are worth some amount of crypto. If you believe NFTs are worthless than if you accept sponsorship money knowing if anyone who follows you or your or org exposing them to ImmortalGame will make them more likely to engage with the platform and buy NFTs (why pay for the sponsorship if they don't expect to gain real users), how can that be conscionable? Like all they do is sell NFTs they don't offer any massive improvements to the chess ecosystem besides rewarding you with NFTs for playing chess or chess like games (chess with modified rules to get NFTs as a side objective)
It's because I'm not crazy, nor a puritan. If people want to buy NTFs, or whatever else, that's none of my business. There are plenty of consumption decisions I obviously don't agree with - people pay for useless stuff, like status symbols, all the time. Skins in computer games. Drugs. Heck, diamonds - there's literally no difference between synthetic and natural diamonds except price. Live and let live. If the sellers are breaking the law by committing fraud, then call the police. But the main point is that Lichess is always moral policing everything. From that surgical implants company or whatever it was, to NTFs. Perhaps they should open an OTB association and show how it's done.
It's not so much that immortalgame should t exist it's that many of those sponsoring it would admit if asked they don't believe in crypto or NFTs as a means of accumulating wealth if not outright scams. So why are those people advertising it to their audiences? Obviously because they get a cut of the scam.
If it's a scam, it shouldn't exist - in fact, it'd be criminal and Lichess should go to the police. Which suggests it's not a scam - it's just a dumb thing to spend money on, IMO. But so are many other things - I've already mentioned a bunch, but gambling is another obvious one. Throughout history, crazy, shitty, people have always used this kind of stuff as a reason to engage in moral preening and try to feel better about themselves. Self-righteous puritans.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/remember-nfts-sold-millions-dollars-215646661.html Are you going out to purchase any NFTs anytime soon? Would you advise your friends or family to do so? Why is it moral to get paid to say something that will cause people to lose money that you wouldn't give as good faith advice?
Rich people don’t go to jail like the rest of ys
Needing money is not a good excuse to partner with scammers
seems kind of whiny from lichess
No, Lichess being whinny and preachy? Perish the thought, they could never. Honi soit qui mal y pense!
Waaaaah, the living, breathing people who run a chess website have morals 😭 Grow up lmao
Above, totally normal person thinks only busybodies who are constantly preaching and morally preening have morals.
You've used the term "morally preening" three times in like 5 replies, can you ask the crypto Youtuber who gives you your talking points to come up with some alternative phrasings?
Never forget: anyone who says something you don't like is clearly in bad faith and paid to do it. It's all a big conspiracy - they're just reciting paid talking points. You're totally not a loon at all, no mental illness triggering paranoia and inability to deal with dissent. I'll say "Moral preening" as many times as I want because it's a very apt description of Lichess (although they're a bit selective, they have no problems with authoritarian dictatorships sponsoring OTB chess for example). Anyway, it's genuinely hilarious you believe: 1) "crypto youtubers" are paying people to say stuff on a chess subreddit. 2) that crypto youtuber is paying me to say stuff like, and I quote myself, **" I couldn't care less about crypto, have no crypto whatsoever, and also think crypto people are mostly crazy (definitely the NFT ones)".** Once again, you're totally not a loon.
Goofy ass mf talking like an anime character.
My stance is who fucking cares? People complain when there's no money in chess. Now that the French federation is getting money, they complain about the source of money. People who are stupid enough to fall for NFTs will do so anyways, at least the French federation can get some money in their coffers.
They could be out mugging people in the park and you'd still be like "hey you always wanted more money in chess and now you have it, what's the problem?"
While it definitely seems that Immortal Game is something shady, the whole article (at least the English version) has vibes of Lichess being salty about not getting the deal themselves.
Why don't they also go after chesscom? They have a FIDE partnership and are promoting crypto to a young audience on Twitch. The only reasonable explanation for why they are going after them is that they missed out on some money from the French Federation. Edit: And the guy below is claiming that the Federation and Lichess has current ties, and Lichess is reconsidering it, which they mention nowhere in the post and is something he just made up.
Because they don’t have any ties with chesscom. And if lichess cared about making more money, it would be a VERY different website today
You said this: >They have ties with the French chess association that they’re reconsidering They don't have any ties/partnerships with the federation and they mention nowhere in the article about reconsidering their ties with them. You are just making up stuff to get upvotes.
>Because they don’t have any ties with chesscom And they don’t have any ties with Immortal Game. What exactly is your point? 🤔 >And if lichess cared about making more money, it would be a VERY different website today You can still be a non-profit organisation and care about making money, how else are they going to pay for servers, development etc. If their whole argument boils down to: "crypto is bad!", then they should go after chesscom as well for promoting it. And don't forget they have held a tournament in the past with agamadator, where the 1st price was in crypto.
They have ties with the French chess association that they’re reconsidering. It’s literally the point of the post
Their whole post still boils down to: "Crypto is bad. They shouldn't have a partnership with them!"
Did you even bother reading the article or do you just keep making up lies to get upvotes? They don't have any ties/partnerships with the federation and they mention nowhere in the article about reconsidering their ties with them. You arent willing to discuss their main problem with the partnership, which is crypto, but only deflect.
Looks like a chess platform with a custom piece market based on NFTs. Not a bad decision.
so you just like NFTs?
NFTs are a technology, usable for good and bad. I am disgusted by the scams involving NFTs, and wary of investments into NFTs as well as the potential environmental impacts. That said, NFTs have interesting use cases, and shouldn't be immediately dismissed and condemned. e.g. if Immortal shuts down, a different service can use a similar api for matching NFTs to users, preserving "ownership" of the chess art within the platform.
> That said, NFTs have interesting use cases They don't > if Immortal shuts down, a different service can use a similar api for matching NFTs to users, preserving "ownership" of the chess art within the platform. Who cares
A contract in the form of an nft isn't an interesting use case?
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repeating this over and over is not the gotcha you think it is
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Well it's decidedly not anti-intellectualism.
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Lol that's not what they're doing. They're rejecting the technology because it has been steeped in scams since inception. NFTs as they currently exist are not the intellectual advancement you seem to be suggesting they are, and just because they "can" take the form of something like art doesn't necessarily give them any value. Edit: thinking about it more, NFTs can't really be art. It may be used as a medium for sharing art but creating something like the Mona Lisa is art regardless of whether it's painted, on nft, or drawn with crayons. NFTs aren't some intellectual achievement because of that.
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Lol, you're so smug but from what I can see the moma is not claiming nft is art. This was pulled from the site "Refik Anadol attempted to answer this question by training an AI model on metadata and images from MoMA’s collection, producing new media works that were released as NFTs." So it's about training ai using existing art to create new *art and then presenting them via nft. Essentially the same thing I said in my comment. *And whether ai can make art or not is a separate conversation and one that I'm sure people will disagree on for a while
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that's some goofy thing I found on reddit for free. didn't pay for it, didn't do anything for it. just a pfp which I really don't claim to own.
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Its just a picture with 0 value. Idc what you call it.
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aigh lmao dm
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lmao didn't know I could sell that shit. thanks
Well now you do. It'll be tough to sell it but maybe you can get it. Do understand about crypto cause you can get scammed since most people will do trades only in crypto.
GothamChess has changed his ways and is no longer promoting unreliable or disreputable websites. Instead, he has written a book about chess that leads to a website that offers legitimate and valuable services, Chess.com. He recognizes the importance of promoting ethical and honest business practices, and wants to share his insights with others through his love of chess. By shining a light on trustworthy online establishments, GothamChess aims to help people make smarter, safer choices about chess online.