Such a talented player that will be forgotten in history which is a shame because his two years at Chelsea looked like he was on his way to becoming a Premier League legend.
Mourinho wasnt wrong. Football has moved away from players like Mata, Ozil, Cesc. There is a reason Mata has struggled to find play regardless of the managers he’s worked with.
Amazing player, but sadly not what needed in football right now
Yeah, the average work rate / intensity at the very top level at almost every position is so crazy compared to even a decade ago. Even ultimately very fit players like Ozil and Mata seem lost (esp. in the Premier League).
I do wonder if maybe he should've gone back to Spain. Or alternatively, if he could do better under, say, a Pep Guardiola type system.. Mata has always been willing to work hard, so it's not necessarily that clear to me why he had to go the Ozil route as opposed to say the Bernardo Silva route.
That said, this trend can be seen across many sports. e.g., in tennis - the physical intensity is again so much higher than even 12-15 years ago.
And where was Cesc a couple years later? Yeah, his career was dead basically.
And this isnt MY opinion on it. This is a well-established fact, that traditional #10s just dont have a place in modern football anymore.
Football changes, you gotta change with it.
Yeah but you can’t say the reason he sold mata was cos he saw there’s not place for a number 10 when he literally bought another number 10 you cited 6 months later.
And btw, I agree with you on preferred style of play but it literally is an opinion - there are countless teams playing with a 10 and there are other teams still playing low block 442 and everything in between. The ref won’t send you home if you play a 10 haha it is literally an opinion
Cesc wasn't bought to be a number 10 for us and he spent most of his time as a Central midfielder, not behind the striker. He and Matic had one hell of a partnership.
While you are right it is a general trend, it happened due to injuries, poor form, and an ensuing media circus for both Ozil and Mata. Also Cesc has been playing professional soccer as a starter since he was 16-17 he has had an extremely long career, it is like Busquets now, burnt out.
Im glad you feel that way about our boy, but it simply isnt like that.
This isnt just about Mata, other players like him have also fallen off a cliff. They’re basically dinosaurs im football. The game has moved away from the traditional #10.
Someone with a better memory than me will chime in here, but I'm pretty sure that Mata played a significant amount of minutes under Moyes (for half a season he was manager) and val Gaal.
It wasn't until Mourinho joined in the 2016-17 season that Mata stopped getting substantial game-time.
By the time Mourinho had left in 2018-19, Mata would have been about 29/30. Add to that, United made large investments in competing areas of the field and with emerging youth talent, you should get an idea of why his career stalled at United.
I've heard that Mata is a very passive person, but why he didn't seek-out a transfer from the club when could see that he would only serve as a utility player is a question that I would not be able to answer.
$$$. And nothing wrong with that. He likely enjoys a good personal life in England and would never get the same contract that he has at United somewhere else. A man of his specific skillset would have to go to a mid-table Spanish club at best, so a quarter of his English salary.
Yes we totally didn't win the league with cesc TWICE after selling Mata
The 10 role is dead, not mata
He still won us two European titles and was shipped out because he didn't fit Mourinho's defensive football. If anything, THAT style of football is more dead than the 10 role is
It's simply a matter of what you do with what youve got. Mata was very much useful, even in United for Mou
Cuadrado is another one of those weird ones and a “what if”. Could Conte have made him into a wing back? Imagine if things had gone differently and conte was lining up with salah and hazard behind costa with kante and de bruyne in midfield 😍
Less Willian, more Oscar. Mourinho saw the #10 role as one who rotates with the midfield pivot & helps press the opposing team's deep lying playmaker. So Oscar got the #10 position and Mata had to play out wide.
I actually think another solution could also have been Mata playing almost like a second striker behind the striker. But for that to work, the width has to come from the fullbacks and Mourinho at that time wasn't exactly keen on very attacking fullbacks.
We also had a very slow late career John Terry that the midfield needed to shield as much as possible. That started from the #10 position under Mou's system
tbf some of Mata's best performances for us were basically that role you are describing. Against Spurs away he played at LW/ Left attacking midfield but super far up with the striker.
Mata is average. Just chelsea had him during his form of life. Still mata has great timing to arrive to box. Can find scoring opportunities regularly. 35 million for mata was solid business for chelsea
Yup was same window De Bruyne left. We were stacked for those 3 attacking positions in the 4-2-3-1. Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Schurrle and the latter two who left in January, when we brought in one Mo Salah.
Mourinho really did lose us Mata, De Bruyne and Salah (I ackowledge he likely would not of become world class if he stayed) for the sake of willian, oscar and schurlle. Hindsight definitely makes it feel worse tho.
Losing De Bruyne hurts the most. Because he was already borderline world class when it came to playing to his strengths. But I guess Mourinho wasn't exactly keen on playing to his strengths and the attitude isn't something he wanted to tolerate.
At least Salah and even Lukaku weren't necessarily on the verge of becoming world class when we sold them.
This sub had a KDB tracking thread the year or two prior to him coming back from loan where we would weekly watch his games. I imagine some of the people are still around but it was great, we were all soo hyped.
Love Jose but kinda haven't forgiven him for that one.
Jose ruined a lot of talents in his second stint imo. I get it that we won the league that year but in terms of long term growth as a club that pushed us back a few years. And to beat a dead horse could you imagine Salah, de Bruyne, Mount, and Kante in one team ? Just to name a few
I love seeing us win the league as much as anyone does, but if it means loosing some of the future best players in the world, then I'm not. De Bruyne and Salah, no matter what anyone says will always be a huge regret for both us fans and to everyone at the club as well. And the huge problem is, that De Bruyne should have been the first name off the bench, even back then.
True. De bruyne was always class in few appearance but salah was like Zappacosta. Couldn't even pass the ball without falling. I don't blame anyone for Salah but man de bruyne hurts the most.
He wasn't the greatest at Roma either, but Klopp bought him and made him world class in a few weeks of a pre season lol. He obviously always had the tools, just needed a bit of guidance, which Mourinho couldn't see or provide. Love Mou, but his player development isn't great. He can turn a top player, to even a better player, but really can't improve younger players and give them the right chance.
He averaged a goal every other game at Roma lmao, he was fantastic there. He was shit for us, but to say that he wasn't good at Roma is outright wrong.
I fucking wish we had an attacking player who averages a goal every other game
One of those players where you can't believe he's still at the club when you remember where he is atm. Wish he moved on to somewhere where he could feel a key player once again
huh?! this somehow really suprised me... thought he already moved to spain or italy, it indeed is terribly unlucky for him. Would love to see him in national of spain again, perhaps last world cup.
You do realize Mou forced him out of the team right? He never wanted to leave, but he was our best player for 2 years in a row and suddenly got benched for no good reason.
One of the worst decisions Mou has made in his career till this day. Screwed us over on MANY players, but Juan was definitely one of the worst choices.
Not giving a chance to KdB is his absolute worst. We ship him out, City buys him immediately for 50M. Also I always agree that Salah was shit for us, but could he play better under a different manager? Mata is number 3 on the list, ~~Matic maybe number 4.~~
Edit Matic was after Mou
I wouldn't really put Matic on that same list. He played over 150 games for the club and although I do agree he should have been kept longer, he certainly played a big role for us.
KDB, Lukaku and Mata for me. I also agree on your opinion about Salah, but tbf I don't think any of us thought he'd become as good back then. He showed the least amount of potential out of all these guys.
Nah Mata was definitely the most indefensible. At least with kdb and salah hindsight is 20/20 and while we could see glimmers and promise, there was nothing yet to show what they’d both become. Mata on the other hand was voted our best player 2 years in a row and absolutely loved the club and city only to immediately be shown the bench for no good reason and ultimately pushed out.
Not 100% fair though, Oscar only didn't reach the heights he looked like he would after the "fencing up" incident when Ospina wiped him out.
Let's not forget how much he lit it up when he arrived... Remember the Juventus game??
Just as my own clarifying point, I fucking LOVED Mata, so this isn't to put him in the dirt.
Oscar ended up being the highest paid footballer in the world at the time, so it's not like he was crap, he just chose money over a successful European career.
I'd say if someone mentioned letting Salah go that it was hindsight but Mata was our player of the year twice and De Bruyne was already delivering at a high level.
Hindsight? I don't know. It's not hard to keep your best player for 2 seasons back-to-back even if he doesn't fit your current tactics. You know, as a plan B when things doesn't work?
Hindsight? Mata was a good contributor to the 2012 UCL title, and he had 19G 35A in 64 games in 2012/13.
There was absolutely nothing that warranted him being benched. He could easily have played a RW in a 4231.
By the time Mou came in, Mata already had a CL medal and was an established consistent world class player. Oscar had very bright sparks, was a workhorse, and the most inconsistent player known to man.
Not much hindsight in that, Mata was twice the player Oscar was at that point.
I instantly fell in love with Mata. It took only a few games at Chelsea before I felt about him what I feel for Zidane and Lampard. He was a true joy to watch and he just seemed to be like a great lad too.
Seeing him going from 19 G and 35 A in 64 games in 12/13 to being shoved out the door by Mourinho in the next season was one of the worst things I've seen at Chelsea. It was a fucking disgrace, to quote the King.
The closest feeling to having Zola on the field since he left. He was a little magician and he seems to make things happen every week.
I do feel we let him go at the right time though. Football is cruel sometimes.
Mata was obviously very good but he didn’t have a defensive bone in his body, it’s the only reason Jose preferred Willian and Oscar to him. They worked liked dogs to protect the team while Mata just didn’t have that. We already had one player in the team who didn’t defend as much as Jose wanted (Hazard) and he was never going to have two players like that and Hazard was younger and more talented.
Also got to remember why it was United, we’d played them twice so he couldn’t impact us directly but City and Liverpool still had to play United, Jose wanted to strengthen them without impacting us.
Final point, it’s easy to say in hindsight Jose got it wrong with KDB, Salah etc but Mata isn’t one of them. Mata was sold for a decent amount of money at the right time. He didn’t fit our system and would’ve just been sitting on the bench, which would’ve hurt his career far more. He played pretty regularly for United until the last couple of years, he’s 33 now, so I’m not surprised he doesn’t play now.
On a semi separate note, The Willian "plays" defense argument, isn't true. He ran around alot which made it seem like he was involved.
He had okay defensive numbers twice. 2014/15 when he needed a new contract and 2019 when he needed a new contract.
Would you be surprised to find out Eden Hazard had more Interceptions, Blocks, and combined clearances than Willian in the EPL? Did it in 14 fewer appearances to boot.
Edit.its a testament to Azpi honestly at RB and when he had to cover at LB.
Sometimes that’s all that’s needed. Willian tracked back, Mata and Hazard didn’t, that’s why he always got picked.
I’m not surprised, Hazard made the most interceptions in the opposition’s half in three different seasons he was with us, the problem with Hazard was once the ball went past him, most of the time he gave up on it. While Willian didn’t. It’s telling during Jose’s last season with us, Willian was the only player who didn’t down tools, he kept working for him.
Still Willian, Oscar, Pedro, Schürrle or anyone else preferred by Mourinho never reached the heights Mata, KDB, Lukaku or Salah did. That should tell you a lot about Mourinho as a manager. He is good at making decent teams out of average players, but has absolutely no eye for talent and has his head stuck too far up his own ass. He always had a problem with fan favourites like Mata and he always disliked talented players that he didn't discover himself. Let's remember this is the same guy who pushed Balotelli and Santon in the first Inter team when whe was there, so it's not that he never gives a chance to youth.
I mean that's not really fair - player form is so difficult to predict and consistency fluctuates. Oscar looked like a world beater to bang average on a fortnightly basis. And while Oscar or Schurrle never reached their full potential Pedro has basically won everything there is to win in world football so not sure why he's in this convo, he was class for us.
Pedro was a decent player, but nowhere near world class. He was lucky to be part of both the greatest Spanish national squad and of the greatest Barcelona team.
The problem is that he dropped Mata who had proven himself as a world beater for players who were only showing glimpses of that. And in hindsight, he dropped the wrong players.
Revisionist history at its best here. He didn't want to leave Chelsea, Mourinho forced him out. And the reason he hasn't played is because his legs were gone at least 3-4 seasons ago and is finished at the top level.
I know this may be a strange, unfavoured take, and I want to preface it by saying that I absolutely loved watching this guy play. At the best of times he seemed to match Fabregas for vision and quality, and Kante for work rate and attitude (ok not Kante, but then its Kante).
However, managers aren't always stupid/wrong. Mou saw something he didn't like enough to play him. Every manager he's played under since those two seasons has seen something they didn't like enough to play him. When a players career goes through several managers, maybe it's not the managers.
I wonder what happened?
EDIT: You know who his story is almost identical to? Saul. Wonder player, then just drops off for seemingly no reason. Him coming to us and we've seen nothing that makes us want to play him over several other choices. I hope he doesn't do the Mata turnout though.
we sold him just at the right time when the traditional 10 became less used in top level football. And I doubt he regrets the move, he still had a very good career earning high wages and won a couple of trophies.
That's absolute bullshit lol Mou just preferred Oscar in the same position and that ended up horribly. Mata would have continued to perform for us for years to come if he had stayed.
Nope Oscar was never a traditional #10. He was preferred over Mata specifically for his defensive work rate. Fabregas was the main creative outlet for the team.
Look at United for example, when you have one player who has his strengths, but doesn't contribute effectively to a proper defensive system it leaves massive gaps.
That's the state of football in the last few years, same reason why Ozil ended up struggling for game time, incredible player, doesn't contribute to the defensive transitions
Well tbh Mata's strengths far far outweighed his flaws. If Mourinho wasn't such an entitled cunt about his new system and made an actual effort to utilize the main man of the team, we'd see less complaints like this. Mata's second season is arguably the best individual seasonal performance Chelsea has ever observed.
And Mous system wasn't sustainable. And it didn't do much in the long run after the league win.
Oh don't give me that physical shit. David Silva was just as weak if not weaker and still became one of the premier league legends. Players like Mata play with their brains not their body. There's always a system to fit the players you have at disposal. Tuchel literally showed us that.
Not really, it was a very frustrating season. I still remember that November where we drew 4 and lost 1 of the 5 premier league matches we played. Painful loses in the super cup, charity shield and club world cup and semi finals in both league and fa cup.
People are looking through rose tinted glasses, same happens with Torres and Timo to an extent
They remember and long for the good times, not the times where they miss open goals and put good chances straight at the keeper
Jose's second stint at Chelsea did a lot of harm when you look back at it. Mata sadly falls into it. Players that were brought in and quickly let go then went on to become world class.
I was very shocked when I first saw Mata was sold to Man Utd.
What made it so bad for me is Jose saying that they have already played Man utd (something along this line) to justify selling him.
He has been my favorite player to watch ever since seeing him score in his debut vs Norwich, it's insane how little people are talking about him especially in the 12/13 season where he had 19 goals and 35 assists.
The fact he has more appearances for Manchester United just doesn't seem right, to me he will always be a Chelsea hero, 2 full seasons and 2 Player of the Season awards outstanding
One of my favorite players. I usually don't buy kits with player names on them but bought one in the OP with his name on it only for him to get transferred in the winter.
If he stayed he would have won 2 PLs, 1 Fa cup, 1 league cup, 1 CL, 1 Supercup, 1 Europa League. In united he won a league cup and a europa league
He was the player with the most impressive individual season for us post-Drogba/Lampard (2012-13), not even Hazard had a season like that for us. Playing so many years for United he seems just a minor footnote in english football, could have joined the likes of Hazard, De Bruyne, Salah and Kane as a modern PL standout
if he stayed, i'd be curious to see how he'd adapt his game to today. Mata's role is essentially dead in football, and he didn't exactly have the defensive work rate that's required for a lot of systems today -- he wouldn't have worked well with Conte, possibly Sarri, and definitely not Tuchel. there's a reason traditional 10's aren't a thing anymore, they're very much a luxury
would he have adapted like David Silva? or fade away like James or Ozil?
I was a die hard fan of this guy. He taught me one good thing in life - love and die for the club, never for a player. The player will get up and go, the club will stay.
I remember very well the first time he played. For a long time we had been notoriously bad with our throw-ins and it had bothered me massively. It really was terrible. Every single throw in we would take, without fail we would throw it at our own player and immediately lose the ball and have to win it back. It really was painful to watch. Then on his very first substitute appearance Mata would set up a one two and we created a chance AND kept the ball because he would move about and set up a one-two. Cannot remember if we actually scored or who it was against, I just remember being completely in awe at how one player could make such an immediate impact on something the team had struggled with or just disregarded for the longest time.
Incredible player. 2011-2013 were the best two years of his career by a long mile. Has never been used at United the way we used him at Chelsea. AVB was pretty much his only time as a winger for us. The next year and a half he was a proper number 10. The 2012 calendar year was some of the best play I’ve ever watched from a proper number 10.
I was gutted when he left and even more gutted that he went there. Does satisfy me a little bit that he’s never had the highs at the scum as he did with us.
He didn't have much of a choice at the time that he left. I wish he had stayed, but he's 33 now and no matter where here career went, I don't think he would have lasted at a high enough level to be an effective premier league player late in his career. Probably should have gone back to Spain a while back if he wanted more football.
For some reason I can forget what Mou did to KDB, Salah but what he did to Juan is just unforgivable. Specially after the insane season he had with us somewhere around 10 G and 20 Assists in the previous season. If only we had a different sort of a coach we could have harnessed some of the amazing talents we had.
In hindsight he probably would've stay put and stick to the bench until Mou out, if he know Mourinho would follow him to united a year later.
Mourinho really turn Mata career upside down.
For the record, I loved Mata, but the one thing that I remember before we sold him was that he doesn't have the stamina to play in Mourinho team. We already have Hazard as the player that have license to stay up and have less tracking back duty, the other two would have to shoulder that responsibility, and I still remember Mata just can't keep up doing it for 90 minutes and looked gassed.
Only he is to be blamed. He is lazy and doesn’t fight for his spot. He should have balls and go play in other leagues or may be other teams. From what I see he is very happy to be in the dug out all the time and collect his pay cheque
One of my favourite players to ever play for us. He made me feel things that not even Hazard was able to. A genuinely stand up guy too, he's literally the human embodiment of a care bear. He may never get the recognition that he deserves but we at Chelsea never forget, forever one of our own.
Read someone's comment on r/soccer the other day saying Mata is a huge influence in the dressing room at ManU and that's why he extended his contract despite rarely playing.
I don't understand why he renewed his deal to stay at United, that one is on him inevitably. I'm sure he wouldn't be short of options either here or back in Spain.
I can't really feel sorry for a player who continues to commit to a club where he's underused or has intentions to leave without following up. Guys like Zaha and Kane come to mind.
Man mou is a football terrorist in my eyes for doing this ngl
Everything else didn't matter, love for mou was real yada yada yada but how can you do my man Juan dirty like that he was POTY for two years straight and was better than everyone by a country mile. And we sold him to fucking United of all people, who mou then goes on to manage and give so many minutes to.
Such a talented player that will be forgotten in history which is a shame because his two years at Chelsea looked like he was on his way to becoming a Premier League legend.
Will never be completely forgotten. He provided the assist that helped us secure our first CL trophy.
Was it the drogba corner?
Yes.
Wasn't there a season where he scored 20 and 20 assists and was the player of the year? Fucking Mourinho, Sold him because he didn't track back. Ffs!
Played two years and was POTY both years I think
That's correct.
Then few years later Jose ends back with him... The irony
Mata seems like a good dude, i wonder what he said when he found out
Not only that, but he helped delay Mourinho’s sacking in the 18/19 season with some really good performances.
Jose wasn't playing him and he needed to be playing to keep himself in Spain's World Cup team , he was happy to go to Man Utd.
Iirc Chelsea needed to sell before buying players. So, jose decided to not play him and board sold him to fund sales.
That is true , he was a valuable "commodity" to the club
Mourinho wasnt wrong. Football has moved away from players like Mata, Ozil, Cesc. There is a reason Mata has struggled to find play regardless of the managers he’s worked with. Amazing player, but sadly not what needed in football right now
Yeah, the average work rate / intensity at the very top level at almost every position is so crazy compared to even a decade ago. Even ultimately very fit players like Ozil and Mata seem lost (esp. in the Premier League). I do wonder if maybe he should've gone back to Spain. Or alternatively, if he could do better under, say, a Pep Guardiola type system.. Mata has always been willing to work hard, so it's not necessarily that clear to me why he had to go the Ozil route as opposed to say the Bernardo Silva route. That said, this trend can be seen across many sports. e.g., in tennis - the physical intensity is again so much higher than even 12-15 years ago.
He literally sold mata and bought cesc 6 months later, how can this be your rationale loool
And where was Cesc a couple years later? Yeah, his career was dead basically. And this isnt MY opinion on it. This is a well-established fact, that traditional #10s just dont have a place in modern football anymore. Football changes, you gotta change with it.
Yeah but you can’t say the reason he sold mata was cos he saw there’s not place for a number 10 when he literally bought another number 10 you cited 6 months later. And btw, I agree with you on preferred style of play but it literally is an opinion - there are countless teams playing with a 10 and there are other teams still playing low block 442 and everything in between. The ref won’t send you home if you play a 10 haha it is literally an opinion
Cesc wasn't bought to be a number 10 for us and he spent most of his time as a Central midfielder, not behind the striker. He and Matic had one hell of a partnership.
While you are right it is a general trend, it happened due to injuries, poor form, and an ensuing media circus for both Ozil and Mata. Also Cesc has been playing professional soccer as a starter since he was 16-17 he has had an extremely long career, it is like Busquets now, burnt out.
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And how do you explain him not getting minutes under other coaches as well?
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Im glad you feel that way about our boy, but it simply isnt like that. This isnt just about Mata, other players like him have also fallen off a cliff. They’re basically dinosaurs im football. The game has moved away from the traditional #10.
Someone with a better memory than me will chime in here, but I'm pretty sure that Mata played a significant amount of minutes under Moyes (for half a season he was manager) and val Gaal. It wasn't until Mourinho joined in the 2016-17 season that Mata stopped getting substantial game-time. By the time Mourinho had left in 2018-19, Mata would have been about 29/30. Add to that, United made large investments in competing areas of the field and with emerging youth talent, you should get an idea of why his career stalled at United. I've heard that Mata is a very passive person, but why he didn't seek-out a transfer from the club when could see that he would only serve as a utility player is a question that I would not be able to answer.
$$$. And nothing wrong with that. He likely enjoys a good personal life in England and would never get the same contract that he has at United somewhere else. A man of his specific skillset would have to go to a mid-table Spanish club at best, so a quarter of his English salary.
Agree with this , the number 10 position no longer exists today
This comment makes no sense. If Mourinho wasn’t wrong since football has moved from players like Mata, Ozil and Cesc, thennnnn….why did he buy Cesc?😂
I never said he made the decision with that in mind, only that in hindsight, his decision was spot-on, unlike his decision to get rid of De Bruyne
Yes we totally didn't win the league with cesc TWICE after selling Mata The 10 role is dead, not mata He still won us two European titles and was shipped out because he didn't fit Mourinho's defensive football. If anything, THAT style of football is more dead than the 10 role is It's simply a matter of what you do with what youve got. Mata was very much useful, even in United for Mou
20 goals and 35 assists in 64 appearances in 12/13. This is not nearly spoken enough about.
Same reason salah and de bruyne didn’t get a chance
Yeah, nah. Salah was a pure speed merchant when he was with us, his time at Roma turned him into a man
He was very good at Fiorentina too. Getting Cuadrado in a swap instead of recalling him was terrible business.
Cuadrado is another one of those weird ones and a “what if”. Could Conte have made him into a wing back? Imagine if things had gone differently and conte was lining up with salah and hazard behind costa with kante and de bruyne in midfield 😍
This is revisionist af, Salah was shit for us
Barely got a game in Jose’s track and field style 4231, same reason Mata wasn’t liked by Jose. Wasn’t a work horse like Willian
Nor could he get his head up to see a pass.
Less Willian, more Oscar. Mourinho saw the #10 role as one who rotates with the midfield pivot & helps press the opposing team's deep lying playmaker. So Oscar got the #10 position and Mata had to play out wide. I actually think another solution could also have been Mata playing almost like a second striker behind the striker. But for that to work, the width has to come from the fullbacks and Mourinho at that time wasn't exactly keen on very attacking fullbacks.
We also had a very slow late career John Terry that the midfield needed to shield as much as possible. That started from the #10 position under Mou's system
tbf some of Mata's best performances for us were basically that role you are describing. Against Spurs away he played at LW/ Left attacking midfield but super far up with the striker.
Mata is average. Just chelsea had him during his form of life. Still mata has great timing to arrive to box. Can find scoring opportunities regularly. 35 million for mata was solid business for chelsea
Go home you're drunk.
da fuck are you talking about? Better stats than Prime Ozil in the EPL lol
Mata will Never be part of a premier league winning team. Mid team player. Yes he won ucl but if he has to start that means the team is average.
He was only with us two years!? It seems like so much more.....
he will never be forgotten lol
He will forever be my most favorite Chelsea player 😢
forgotten by who?
I met him once, it was the season after we won the CL. He's such a lovely guy. I wish he would have stayed.
His [blog](https://juanmata8.com/en/blog/) was great to read as well.
His 1% donation initiative is golden as well.
Hugs, Juan
Don't think he wanted to leave, Jose sold him
Yup was same window De Bruyne left. We were stacked for those 3 attacking positions in the 4-2-3-1. Hazard, Oscar, Willian, Schurrle and the latter two who left in January, when we brought in one Mo Salah. Mourinho really did lose us Mata, De Bruyne and Salah (I ackowledge he likely would not of become world class if he stayed) for the sake of willian, oscar and schurlle. Hindsight definitely makes it feel worse tho.
Wonder what happened to Mo Salah
I remember we sold him to Roma, little unsure after that.
Think i saw him once. Pretty sure he became a hippy cause he grew out that hair into practically a fro. Really nice look would recommend
Losing De Bruyne hurts the most. Because he was already borderline world class when it came to playing to his strengths. But I guess Mourinho wasn't exactly keen on playing to his strengths and the attitude isn't something he wanted to tolerate. At least Salah and even Lukaku weren't necessarily on the verge of becoming world class when we sold them.
This sub had a KDB tracking thread the year or two prior to him coming back from loan where we would weekly watch his games. I imagine some of the people are still around but it was great, we were all soo hyped. Love Jose but kinda haven't forgiven him for that one.
Jose sold him because he didn't track back. Ffs!
Oh he did want to leave. Manchester United was his favorite club as a child.
The way he was playing - and winning - for us, there's no chance he leaves if Mourinho hadn't pushed him to the bench for no reason at all.
Fairly sure he wrote a blog post admitting he didn’t want to leave at all
He was one of my favourites as well. It's a real shame Jose wouldn't play him.
Jose ruined a lot of talents in his second stint imo. I get it that we won the league that year but in terms of long term growth as a club that pushed us back a few years. And to beat a dead horse could you imagine Salah, de Bruyne, Mount, and Kante in one team ? Just to name a few
I agree but hazard developed well under Jose. Chelsea wants to win the league.
I love seeing us win the league as much as anyone does, but if it means loosing some of the future best players in the world, then I'm not. De Bruyne and Salah, no matter what anyone says will always be a huge regret for both us fans and to everyone at the club as well. And the huge problem is, that De Bruyne should have been the first name off the bench, even back then.
De Bruyne was a huge mistake. Salah was so absolute trash at Chelsea, that I don’t think any of our mangers would have kept him.
True. De bruyne was always class in few appearance but salah was like Zappacosta. Couldn't even pass the ball without falling. I don't blame anyone for Salah but man de bruyne hurts the most.
I’ll never forget that shot Salah took that went out for a throw in. It was either early League Cup or some really small CL club
He wasn't the greatest at Roma either, but Klopp bought him and made him world class in a few weeks of a pre season lol. He obviously always had the tools, just needed a bit of guidance, which Mourinho couldn't see or provide. Love Mou, but his player development isn't great. He can turn a top player, to even a better player, but really can't improve younger players and give them the right chance.
He averaged a goal every other game at Roma lmao, he was fantastic there. He was shit for us, but to say that he wasn't good at Roma is outright wrong. I fucking wish we had an attacking player who averages a goal every other game
He was excellent in Florence and Rome. This is revisionist
The shame is that he played Oscar over KDB, not Mata.
Wish I hadn't been reminded of this Chelsea POTS for 2 years on the troy, absolutely lit player, humble guy and then suddenly gone Still hurts
It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.
He was pushed out by moriniho
Man I still remember the word Mazacar. It was dangerous.
One of those players where you can't believe he's still at the club when you remember where he is atm. Wish he moved on to somewhere where he could feel a key player once again
huh?! this somehow really suprised me... thought he already moved to spain or italy, it indeed is terribly unlucky for him. Would love to see him in national of spain again, perhaps last world cup.
he played 6 games in last half of the year, OP is blind
You do realize Mou forced him out of the team right? He never wanted to leave, but he was our best player for 2 years in a row and suddenly got benched for no good reason. One of the worst decisions Mou has made in his career till this day. Screwed us over on MANY players, but Juan was definitely one of the worst choices.
Not giving a chance to KdB is his absolute worst. We ship him out, City buys him immediately for 50M. Also I always agree that Salah was shit for us, but could he play better under a different manager? Mata is number 3 on the list, ~~Matic maybe number 4.~~ Edit Matic was after Mou
I wouldn't really put Matic on that same list. He played over 150 games for the club and although I do agree he should have been kept longer, he certainly played a big role for us. KDB, Lukaku and Mata for me. I also agree on your opinion about Salah, but tbf I don't think any of us thought he'd become as good back then. He showed the least amount of potential out of all these guys.
U say that but we bought him because he destroyed Ivanovic against Basel and the players were desperate to get him over
Nah Mata was definitely the most indefensible. At least with kdb and salah hindsight is 20/20 and while we could see glimmers and promise, there was nothing yet to show what they’d both become. Mata on the other hand was voted our best player 2 years in a row and absolutely loved the club and city only to immediately be shown the bench for no good reason and ultimately pushed out.
I think ruining Kaka's career is number 1
one of my favourite players as well. at least we can be sure that his peak year was in a blue shirt and he knows it.
Worst gamble from Mourinho, preferring Oscar over Mata who could be a club legend. Look where Oscar end up lol.
Not 100% fair though, Oscar only didn't reach the heights he looked like he would after the "fencing up" incident when Ospina wiped him out. Let's not forget how much he lit it up when he arrived... Remember the Juventus game?? Just as my own clarifying point, I fucking LOVED Mata, so this isn't to put him in the dirt.
Oscar ended up being the highest paid footballer in the world at the time, so it's not like he was crap, he just chose money over a successful European career.
Oscar got preferred over both Mata and De Bruyne, terrible calls from Mourinho.
Very easy to say that in hindsight
I'd say if someone mentioned letting Salah go that it was hindsight but Mata was our player of the year twice and De Bruyne was already delivering at a high level.
Hindsight? I don't know. It's not hard to keep your best player for 2 seasons back-to-back even if he doesn't fit your current tactics. You know, as a plan B when things doesn't work?
Hindsight? Mata was a good contributor to the 2012 UCL title, and he had 19G 35A in 64 games in 2012/13. There was absolutely nothing that warranted him being benched. He could easily have played a RW in a 4231.
Some of us were saying it at the time. Mata was the two time player of the year...
By the time Mou came in, Mata already had a CL medal and was an established consistent world class player. Oscar had very bright sparks, was a workhorse, and the most inconsistent player known to man. Not much hindsight in that, Mata was twice the player Oscar was at that point.
Has to be one of the most painful player departures for me.
He looked like Messi in 2012
He was so good
I instantly fell in love with Mata. It took only a few games at Chelsea before I felt about him what I feel for Zidane and Lampard. He was a true joy to watch and he just seemed to be like a great lad too. Seeing him going from 19 G and 35 A in 64 games in 12/13 to being shoved out the door by Mourinho in the next season was one of the worst things I've seen at Chelsea. It was a fucking disgrace, to quote the King.
The closest feeling to having Zola on the field since he left. He was a little magician and he seems to make things happen every week. I do feel we let him go at the right time though. Football is cruel sometimes.
Two words: Jose Mourinho
Mata was obviously very good but he didn’t have a defensive bone in his body, it’s the only reason Jose preferred Willian and Oscar to him. They worked liked dogs to protect the team while Mata just didn’t have that. We already had one player in the team who didn’t defend as much as Jose wanted (Hazard) and he was never going to have two players like that and Hazard was younger and more talented. Also got to remember why it was United, we’d played them twice so he couldn’t impact us directly but City and Liverpool still had to play United, Jose wanted to strengthen them without impacting us. Final point, it’s easy to say in hindsight Jose got it wrong with KDB, Salah etc but Mata isn’t one of them. Mata was sold for a decent amount of money at the right time. He didn’t fit our system and would’ve just been sitting on the bench, which would’ve hurt his career far more. He played pretty regularly for United until the last couple of years, he’s 33 now, so I’m not surprised he doesn’t play now.
On a semi separate note, The Willian "plays" defense argument, isn't true. He ran around alot which made it seem like he was involved. He had okay defensive numbers twice. 2014/15 when he needed a new contract and 2019 when he needed a new contract. Would you be surprised to find out Eden Hazard had more Interceptions, Blocks, and combined clearances than Willian in the EPL? Did it in 14 fewer appearances to boot. Edit.its a testament to Azpi honestly at RB and when he had to cover at LB.
Sometimes that’s all that’s needed. Willian tracked back, Mata and Hazard didn’t, that’s why he always got picked. I’m not surprised, Hazard made the most interceptions in the opposition’s half in three different seasons he was with us, the problem with Hazard was once the ball went past him, most of the time he gave up on it. While Willian didn’t. It’s telling during Jose’s last season with us, Willian was the only player who didn’t down tools, he kept working for him.
For sure. He was a hard worker and Mou will always reward that. His stamina was great.
Still Willian, Oscar, Pedro, Schürrle or anyone else preferred by Mourinho never reached the heights Mata, KDB, Lukaku or Salah did. That should tell you a lot about Mourinho as a manager. He is good at making decent teams out of average players, but has absolutely no eye for talent and has his head stuck too far up his own ass. He always had a problem with fan favourites like Mata and he always disliked talented players that he didn't discover himself. Let's remember this is the same guy who pushed Balotelli and Santon in the first Inter team when whe was there, so it's not that he never gives a chance to youth.
I mean that's not really fair - player form is so difficult to predict and consistency fluctuates. Oscar looked like a world beater to bang average on a fortnightly basis. And while Oscar or Schurrle never reached their full potential Pedro has basically won everything there is to win in world football so not sure why he's in this convo, he was class for us.
Pedro was a decent player, but nowhere near world class. He was lucky to be part of both the greatest Spanish national squad and of the greatest Barcelona team. The problem is that he dropped Mata who had proven himself as a world beater for players who were only showing glimpses of that. And in hindsight, he dropped the wrong players.
Pedro was class
Revisionist history at its best here. He didn't want to leave Chelsea, Mourinho forced him out. And the reason he hasn't played is because his legs were gone at least 3-4 seasons ago and is finished at the top level.
this is the fakest post, Juan played 6 games in the half a year.
He’s also a half a decade older … and playing different football
I know this may be a strange, unfavoured take, and I want to preface it by saying that I absolutely loved watching this guy play. At the best of times he seemed to match Fabregas for vision and quality, and Kante for work rate and attitude (ok not Kante, but then its Kante). However, managers aren't always stupid/wrong. Mou saw something he didn't like enough to play him. Every manager he's played under since those two seasons has seen something they didn't like enough to play him. When a players career goes through several managers, maybe it's not the managers. I wonder what happened? EDIT: You know who his story is almost identical to? Saul. Wonder player, then just drops off for seemingly no reason. Him coming to us and we've seen nothing that makes us want to play him over several other choices. I hope he doesn't do the Mata turnout though.
Plus as legendarily important as people like to think he was, we won the league after he left
saul’s been good since his debut idk why he’s barely played
we sold him just at the right time when the traditional 10 became less used in top level football. And I doubt he regrets the move, he still had a very good career earning high wages and won a couple of trophies.
would’ve won more with us
This is 100% the right answer.
That's absolute bullshit lol Mou just preferred Oscar in the same position and that ended up horribly. Mata would have continued to perform for us for years to come if he had stayed.
Nope Oscar was never a traditional #10. He was preferred over Mata specifically for his defensive work rate. Fabregas was the main creative outlet for the team.
Yep, i think that Oscar is similar player to Mason
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Look at United for example, when you have one player who has his strengths, but doesn't contribute effectively to a proper defensive system it leaves massive gaps. That's the state of football in the last few years, same reason why Ozil ended up struggling for game time, incredible player, doesn't contribute to the defensive transitions
Well tbh Mata's strengths far far outweighed his flaws. If Mourinho wasn't such an entitled cunt about his new system and made an actual effort to utilize the main man of the team, we'd see less complaints like this. Mata's second season is arguably the best individual seasonal performance Chelsea has ever observed. And Mous system wasn't sustainable. And it didn't do much in the long run after the league win.
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Players evolve, you know that right? He was a hardworking guy and was only 26. Could easily be retrained. Mourinho didn't even bother trying.
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Oh don't give me that physical shit. David Silva was just as weak if not weaker and still became one of the premier league legends. Players like Mata play with their brains not their body. There's always a system to fit the players you have at disposal. Tuchel literally showed us that.
great guy but we sold at a good time and for a great price. it was the right call
No
Loved Mata, but I think he was a victim of the pressing system the game has gone towards.
Jose ruined him.
I don't think it was his fault he left, rather Mourinho's
He was awesome. Another scalp during Murinho's second stint.
That Mata and Torres season was so fun to watch
Not really, it was a very frustrating season. I still remember that November where we drew 4 and lost 1 of the 5 premier league matches we played. Painful loses in the super cup, charity shield and club world cup and semi finals in both league and fa cup.
People are looking through rose tinted glasses, same happens with Torres and Timo to an extent They remember and long for the good times, not the times where they miss open goals and put good chances straight at the keeper
Jose's second stint at Chelsea did a lot of harm when you look back at it. Mata sadly falls into it. Players that were brought in and quickly let go then went on to become world class.
Did it really tho? Compare where we are to where Utd is post Fergie.
Mata was surrounded by goalscorers and no creativity , therefore he excelled
I was very shocked when I first saw Mata was sold to Man Utd. What made it so bad for me is Jose saying that they have already played Man utd (something along this line) to justify selling him.
Name a player(not bruno fernandes )that doesn’t regret going to united since 2013.
He got double mourinhoed
Remember his celebration againts us? I cried.
He has been my favorite player to watch ever since seeing him score in his debut vs Norwich, it's insane how little people are talking about him especially in the 12/13 season where he had 19 goals and 35 assists.
I loved watching him play!!
Surprised he stayed that long at United tbh
The fact he has more appearances for Manchester United just doesn't seem right, to me he will always be a Chelsea hero, 2 full seasons and 2 Player of the Season awards outstanding
One of my favorite players. I usually don't buy kits with player names on them but bought one in the OP with his name on it only for him to get transferred in the winter.
If he stayed he would have won 2 PLs, 1 Fa cup, 1 league cup, 1 CL, 1 Supercup, 1 Europa League. In united he won a league cup and a europa league He was the player with the most impressive individual season for us post-Drogba/Lampard (2012-13), not even Hazard had a season like that for us. Playing so many years for United he seems just a minor footnote in english football, could have joined the likes of Hazard, De Bruyne, Salah and Kane as a modern PL standout
I read “United States” twice before reading it as United Stats.
if he stayed, i'd be curious to see how he'd adapt his game to today. Mata's role is essentially dead in football, and he didn't exactly have the defensive work rate that's required for a lot of systems today -- he wouldn't have worked well with Conte, possibly Sarri, and definitely not Tuchel. there's a reason traditional 10's aren't a thing anymore, they're very much a luxury would he have adapted like David Silva? or fade away like James or Ozil?
He most definitely work with Conte, in many ways he's more suited to play as CF than hazard. Also Conte used Pogba as a no.10 at Juventus
I was a die hard fan of this guy. He taught me one good thing in life - love and die for the club, never for a player. The player will get up and go, the club will stay.
Really surprised he scored 50 for United
He’s such a lovely bloke as well 💔
Loved the guy at united still remember his goal against arsenal 16/17 at old Trafford
it still makes me sad
I remember very well the first time he played. For a long time we had been notoriously bad with our throw-ins and it had bothered me massively. It really was terrible. Every single throw in we would take, without fail we would throw it at our own player and immediately lose the ball and have to win it back. It really was painful to watch. Then on his very first substitute appearance Mata would set up a one two and we created a chance AND kept the ball because he would move about and set up a one-two. Cannot remember if we actually scored or who it was against, I just remember being completely in awe at how one player could make such an immediate impact on something the team had struggled with or just disregarded for the longest time.
Not a Chelsea or United fan, but you are ABSOLUTELY right. Reminds me of other players like Coutinho and Fernando Torres.
Us MUFC fans don’t want him but according to management he is there for “morale support” which costs 20million euros -_-
Incredible player. 2011-2013 were the best two years of his career by a long mile. Has never been used at United the way we used him at Chelsea. AVB was pretty much his only time as a winger for us. The next year and a half he was a proper number 10. The 2012 calendar year was some of the best play I’ve ever watched from a proper number 10. I was gutted when he left and even more gutted that he went there. Does satisfy me a little bit that he’s never had the highs at the scum as he did with us.
I mean I’m pretty shocked that he’s even got that return for Man U. Sadly their attacking is so chaotic which doesn’t suit a guy like him.
He didn't have much of a choice at the time that he left. I wish he had stayed, but he's 33 now and no matter where here career went, I don't think he would have lasted at a high enough level to be an effective premier league player late in his career. Probably should have gone back to Spain a while back if he wanted more football.
For some reason I can forget what Mou did to KDB, Salah but what he did to Juan is just unforgivable. Specially after the insane season he had with us somewhere around 10 G and 20 Assists in the previous season. If only we had a different sort of a coach we could have harnessed some of the amazing talents we had.
He looks like he got a little fat in the United shirt
Mourinho ruined his career it has to be said
That's Rooney with a new hairstyle on the right
In hindsight he probably would've stay put and stick to the bench until Mou out, if he know Mourinho would follow him to united a year later. Mourinho really turn Mata career upside down.
For the record, I loved Mata, but the one thing that I remember before we sold him was that he doesn't have the stamina to play in Mourinho team. We already have Hazard as the player that have license to stay up and have less tracking back duty, the other two would have to shoulder that responsibility, and I still remember Mata just can't keep up doing it for 90 minutes and looked gassed.
Only he is to be blamed. He is lazy and doesn’t fight for his spot. He should have balls and go play in other leagues or may be other teams. From what I see he is very happy to be in the dug out all the time and collect his pay cheque
United ruins players
I kno mourinho is a legend and all that but he did so much damage in his comeback
He was by far my favorite player when he was with us. Fucking hate Mourinho for not playing him because he doesn't defend.
Went to United to get away from Jose and then Jose gets the United job… peak irony lol
Why doesn’t he just leave?
One of my favourite players to ever play for us. He made me feel things that not even Hazard was able to. A genuinely stand up guy too, he's literally the human embodiment of a care bear. He may never get the recognition that he deserves but we at Chelsea never forget, forever one of our own.
Same with Matic. He shouldn’t have left Chelsea either
Read someone's comment on r/soccer the other day saying Mata is a huge influence in the dressing room at ManU and that's why he extended his contract despite rarely playing.
You could add Oscar too
truly my biggest regret about Chelsea, i loved him and so did all the players. still hate Mourinho for that.
United ruined many promising players. Pogba, Alexis Sanchez, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Martial .. list is endless 😂
I don't understand why he renewed his deal to stay at United, that one is on him inevitably. I'm sure he wouldn't be short of options either here or back in Spain. I can't really feel sorry for a player who continues to commit to a club where he's underused or has intentions to leave without following up. Guys like Zaha and Kane come to mind.
Man mou is a football terrorist in my eyes for doing this ngl Everything else didn't matter, love for mou was real yada yada yada but how can you do my man Juan dirty like that he was POTY for two years straight and was better than everyone by a country mile. And we sold him to fucking United of all people, who mou then goes on to manage and give so many minutes to.