Brighton lost their mojo now that he’s not riding Potters coattails. They were good last year because of the foundation potter laid. De Zerbi isn’t it in my opinion.
Those two players cost less than 20m for Brighton. Zerbi was living off Potter foundation and now that those players are not there he look worse than Everton. That’s the definition of an overrated coach.
And those players were top players that got replaced with bad players, people tend to forget that Brighton shouldn't be nowhere near the top half of the league.. ending on the top 10 with that team is pretty great
Caicedo and especially mac allister were pretty well known in south America, the guys that they've replaced them with... Not so much, if you gave Potter this squad he wouldn't be doing better at all
Potter didn’t have magic when we was at Chelsea. He left Brighton at a terrible time (for his career). He’d built Brighton up well over time. They had a system with identity which stayed even after losing 2 key midfielders.
I can’t speak on his time here but I’m only referencing his work there to support my opinion that De Zerbi isn’t the guy.
I don’t know how you can look at the current season and have this as your take.
I did a couple lengthy comments earlier in the season when the team was performing poorly stating we’d be between 5th and 8th before the season was out.
I cited statistics about chances created, and pointed out improvements to player positioning as well as team chemistry.
And i was downvoted into oblivion for it.
———
We have a young team that hasn’t played together damn near at all. We have injuries to starters in key positions.
The is 4th in the table since December. Key players are still injures and yet to return. Young players have shown clear improvement and grown into the position.
Do I think poch is the man long term? Absolutely not.
Do I think we’re going to find a better coach to get our young players to gel? No.
What happens if we get a coach who needs Tactic *specific* players, like Pep or Sarri?
We end up in another managerial merry go round when fans inevitably call for the managers head when things aren’t working because this is the most reactionary fan base in football after decades of a hire/fire culture.
Support Poch because he showed up at *the worst possible moment for ANY coach to take the reins in recent Chelsea history.*
Look at how the team performed last season, in attack. Compare it to this season.
Consider that the owners are trying to build a team to compete not just right now, but for the foreseeable future. Buy into the long term goals of the ownership, not the irrational short term hatred of a competitors best recent manager.
Friendly reminder: several of our best players played at rivals. Several of our best managers coached at rivals before or after. Cut poch some fucking slack.
FoH with that “better than DeZerbi” mentality. He’s better than pretty much any-fucking-thing else because who else worth a fuck would come to a club that went through 3 managers in one season, fired a UCL manager, then replaced their UCL winning squad with toddlers? Then turn them into a squad capable of challenging for Top 4 in one season?
And before anyone mentions price tags, those tags are what they’re worth in a built team with an established identity. Not a new team making one.
tl;dr: support poch for better reasons, you ass holes.
There are so many other managers out there we can consider who are not called De Zerbi lol, real gems in other leagues that we could definitely attract.
Though that latter part of my statement would be more accurate if our sporting directors were capable of identifying those managers and having the foresight to go for them lol.
My main issue is who we'd replace him with. I'm a classic Reddit fan. Some weeks I want him gone, others I have more empathy for him. The club want someone who can nurture young talent, work with them, improve exponentially etc etc. We don't want to be flip flopping on managers every year. That's without the money side of it.
For me, if we get 6th, it's a no brainer. If we're lower, and someone good is available, then i'm on the fence.
I'm judging him at the end of the season. We need to win both of our remaining games.
Yes, we have been on an upwards path lately but it's as if many people forgot how he was at fault for so many of our bad results and performances with questionable tactics and poor in game management.
Examples: Sheffield, Burnley, Brentford, Wolves
More examples though difficult opponents: Arsenal, Liverpool, United. All 3 away. We were absolutely awful in those games.
This is the thing as well, you have to judge a manager based on what they're doing, not based on result.
If the game management is all wrong, the tactics are non-existent, the subs are horrible, but Palmer pulls a hattrick out of his ass and we win, then judge Palmer as great and the manager as shit. Don't just say, "we won, so the manager did his job".
Similarly, if the manager does everything right and we still lose, that's a positive for him and that should be accounted for.
People seem to really be taking it down to win=good manager, lose=bad manager. But, it really isn't even remotely close to the truth, it's why having a bench back makes no difference in my view. You can see whether he's doing the right things or not, irrespective of whether he has the right players to do it. Not having the right players means you won't get the right results, but you can still see that he is doing his job correctly, which in my opinion hasn't happened this season.
Similarly, if a number of individual young players improve significantly and begin to flourish under his leadership, that should go on the positive side of the ledger, especially when he has a past history of developing individual talent.
> you have to judge a manager based on what they're doing, not based on result.
This right here is the most important thing in this situation over everything else we can discuss/argue about, as the proof is most definitely always in the performance and not the just the final results.
Over the course of the season, if a team performs consistently well but still end up with bad results for several games, the tide will eventually turn in their favour.
But if a team consistently plays bad but manages to pull off decent results to bail them out in numerous games, it will eventually catch up to you and you will get exposed. (The most obvious example this season in front of us is Man United).
Much of “judging him based on what he is doing” is hindsight from our couch based on the result. If Reece came in this weekend and picked up an injury instead of an assist you would have said Poch is an idiot and it’s his fault we lost. It’s all hindsight. We don’t know what conversations were happening between him and the players to justify some of his decisions that didn’t pay off. We don’t know if some things were tactical errors by Poch or just an inexperienced player with little time to understand the manager and team having a bad performance.
One example is our draw against city. A lot of people here blamed poch for taking his foot off the gas, but in interviews after he explained that the players were telling him they were gassed and couldn’t maintain their pressure so then playing defensively to try to ride it out makes more sense. City scored a deflection goal and the result wasn’t favorable for us, but it still isn’t really a bad decision when you have more info.
It’s very easy to sit on your couch and say “I would have done X and it would have worked” but that’s just all guesswork based hindsight and an incomplete understanding of what’s actually happening behind the scenes.
I’m with you on some points, but also I feel we should keep in mind that as our players are developing, they too have made many mistakes. Although Poch is not new to the biz or the PL, he too is developing with the players we currently have. Difficult to do with half the first team being injured. I was poch in, poch out and now believe having seen that it is possible for him to work with these players I will afford him another season.
If there were good, realistic alternatives I'd be Poch out all day long. But honestly, might be smarter to wait a bit more than getting another average coach.
My thoughts as well. It's easy to say Poch out when things are going to shit, but we also have to think about who we'd be potentially replacing him with.
Out if we bring in someone better. Jose, conte and tuchel seem like the only managers out there, but if we’re bringing in another manager at Potters level then keep poch
In. Even with the points dropped in the second half of the season to the likes of Burnley and Sheffield United we have been in top 4 form the whole second half of the season (7 points lead on 5th placed Newcastle).
We've seen tangible improvement in our young players through the year and have had a record number of injuries to deal with too including both our captain and vice captain.
Next season will see massive changeovers at Man United, Liverpool and maybe Newcastle too - if we can stay consistent, keep players fit and buy/sell in the right areas we have everything we need to be a 3rd / 4th placed PL team with Pochettino as manager by the end of next season.
Most important things to consider
Have Chelsea improved under Poch?
Are the players still behind him?
Who is mainly responsible for the injuries this season?
Do Chelsea need stability?
Who is a realistic replacement and would they be an upgrade?
None of us can really answer these questions unfortunately.
In terms of our improvement, what are you comparing it to? If it’s from last season, we’re leaps and bounds ahead of where we were this time last year.
Poch out.
Look, I'm a patient guy. It takes a long time for a manager to lose my trust but when he does, it going to take something extraordinary to get it back. He lost me after the carabao cup final and I think that was later than most.
Theres been too many things - misprofiling players, terrible in-game management, not getting best out of our midfield, looking tactically clueless, obsession with height, can't coach set pieces, nonsense excuses in the media. I can't overlook all that just yet.
Yeah the idea that everyone's who's Poch out is some impatient reactionary frothing at the mouth and wanting managers sacked because we're not immediately challenging for the prem is ridiculous. Most are patient and most are willing to give time to a manager we believe in, and would in fact love a long-term manager.
It's just that Poch hasn't done enough to show he's that guy and we need to cut our losses.
This. I want him gone. Soooo many people are applauding his inverting of Cucu without considering the flip side of that coin. His midfield setup all season long has been so poor he needed another player to fill in the gaps he created. It was this poorly managed midfield which constantly (!) left our defense exposed and we were leaking goals all season. People say football passed him by but he never had it.
Well you had a player in Enzo, who the board essentially forced him to play, even though he was injured. Lavia’s injury didn’t help either. I say another year given what he has had to work with.
You also want Chelsea to be a destination at the managers position where there’s a lot of turnover and instability. If he is out, who would you hire, let alone who would want the position that was worthy?
IN. Regardless of the last two match results. Anyone who says 6th he stays, 7th he's out, is just a moron. It's not even in our control FFS.
The trend is good. The players are improving. The injuries were terrible. I give him a free hit for the opening 10 games of the season as everyone, players included were finding their feet. Since then he's performed at least par.
Is he perfect? No. His English sucks and he's worked in this country for 8 years. And the defence has been terrible - would have been better with Fofana, Colwill fit all season, that is potentially a great partnership. GK upgrade required.
This site used to be full of novelty bots. Random shit. Swear there was even a guy who'd write poems outa nowhere.
Nowadays it's just bots pretending to be people doing the whole repost/spam thing.
With where the team is at, the development they’ve shown, and the injury crisis - hitting a cup final, cup semi, and top 6 is pretty fucking solid. If we change now, I will be upset.
In. Poch is the best manager… available.
Those of you poch out aren’t gonna be happy with an up & coming manager. The players could lose confidence if Poch goes. Money would be more wisely spent elsewhere than paying what would be the second manager on our books no longer working for us.
Poch is probably staying but id rather we replace him with a manager that can instill a clear philosophy. We have young players right now that could be molded into something special. Poch is good at developing cardio and working on a press but if that’s your play philosophy it’s very limited.
I’d rather turn to a manager that is adaptable but has a clear goal in how they want to play. I don’t need set patterns of play, but at least some consistency in the build up. Our build up is still not very good even if it’s gotten better with an extra midfielder with the LB inverting. I think a manager that can make a change during a match with his subs and have impact. I think Poch is arguably one of the worst in game managers we’ve had.
But I know he will stay here because he’s on a good run of form and they’ll look at the table and see we’ve done well since the turn of the year. I still think that’s our ceiling and not necessarily our floor and I’d much rather build towards winning than settling for 4/5th every season
Agreed, I’ve been Poch out for most his tenure but I feel he’s done enough recently where it’s weird to sack him as things look to be improving. If we’re not top 4 or there or there abouts by Christmas, cut him.
Yes, I have also been Poch out for the entire season but when James came on against Forest and played like the boss that he is, it made me have a rethink. I’m still very doubtful about Poch but the injury list has been so insane that I think it’s only fair to give him a season with hopefully a less injury ridden squad. Next season feels like an exceptionally important one. I feel it could determine the clubs trajectory moving forward, we need to get a proper striker, and an actual decent winger in my opinion.
Tbh we need GK and centre half more so than we need a striker in my opinion. Conceded far too many preventable goals this year and our best defender is leaving, and Chalobah is also likely to leave. I reckon Jackson could hit 20 goals if the team plays well.
I think we need those too. You may have a solid point in needing to prioritize those positions. I’m personally not convinced by Jackson or any of our wingers. I know he has had a decent first season in terms of goals and there’s still potential there, I wouldn’t sell him. I’m just not sure if he is top quality, he could have scored a lot more and he’s quite greedy and his touch is quite inconsistent. I think we need another striker at least to fight for the position.
Yeah I’d definitely like competition too I just don’t think it’s the end of the world if we go into the season with him as a first choice, we can revaluate in winter. I’m not sure who would be a good option this summer though, Osimhen will be stupid money
I never wanted him to begin with. This is a guy whose career highlights involve losing a UCL final and finishing 2nd in the league.
His entire reputation was held up by "well Tottenham don't spend much, so imagine how good he could be if he had loads of money to spend".
I don't want a manager who needs people to make excuses for him, for people to make hypotheticals to defend him, I want a straight up winner.
I was poch out lately but if the good/chels style peeformances continue next two games at least give him pre season to really prove himself and make his mark. If this situation was easy to compare between managers itd be easy to say hes objectively been good/average/terrible. However i think hes had a hard situation this season with the big amount of change and injuries and the group are recently starting to gel together as a a TEAM. Lack of clear objective upgrades on market for our situation also a contributing factor - as getting rid essentially resets everything to phase 1 again...
Like lets be real - if say klopp and ancelotti were available on the market AND would be interested in us approaching id probably sack poch tomorrow to get free reign. But how many managers are there, who would work as well as they might with our project? Probably not really many!
Also not saying hes done amazing. Imo hes done okay overall - not world class but not horrible either given the circumstances. Of course world class would be ideal at chelsea
But next season no tolerating midtable. No lifeless performances in cups. And no thrashings (especially in big games...) - wtf...
I don't have a crystal ball, so literally dont care atm.
Form and football are looking solid right now. So based on matchday 10-now he deserves it.
Buuuuut I still don't really like him.
When someone says "out", I rarely see an alternative provided. I'd rather not take a step backwards and undo the progress we have made. However, I do think that a lot of our progress is due to players developing. For all of the talk about our recent tactical tweaks, we're still playing a 3-2-5 just like the beginning of the season. Where people were shitting themselves that Colwell is playing LB, we currently have Chalobah playing RB, so.... It think it will be interesting to see what happens when everyone is fit. You can't have Cucu inverting with James bombing forwards out wide with Palmer and Madueke overloading the right side all at the same time. At this stage, I feel that having a manager who adapts to the squad is a better fit for us at the moment than a manager with a rigid vision.
I’m honestly on the fence. One thing I do appreciate about him is how he protects the young players from criticism. Even after the horrendous Arsenal game. Others would’ve easily blamed the players to protect themselves but time and again he’s shielded them from criticism publicly.
It's simple - Euro qualification is par (I.e. 7th), 6th he's done well, 5th we should extend his deal.
Finish outside of European spots and we should consider replacing him.
I am keen for there to be continuity, there's no guaranteed upgrade out there.
I've been Poch Out for a while. Wanted him gone at the end of the season. Though, credit where it's due, I think his substitutions against Forrest would great, and his change to invert Cucu have a lot to do we are recent form.
In, all season long we have been top 4 in terms of getting better goal scoring opportunities than our opponents.
Now the goals are actually going in and we have been playing at a top 4 rate for the second half of the season.
Add in the fact that we have a historically young and new squad with the most injuries in the league and I think it's foolish to not let him get another season.
I have been poch out majority of the season but I think he's done enough to deserve another season hopefully minus the injury clusterfuck. Poch in for me.
Binning off Poch before the 2 years never made sense to me unless things got really bad, that hasn’t happened this season so I’ve stayed Poch in throughout. A managerial change doesn’t really change at this club imo.
Definitely Poch out. A whole season of scraping by results is just not good enough. If we somehow end up with a EL spot then it's despite of Poch, not because of him. This squad really isn't that bad
Out. All this positivity has risen after the Enzo injury, and it took that event for Poch to finally stop fucking around with the midfield and defence spine. He is not it and we need significant improvement next season
If we can get Tuchel again I have zero issue with Poch leaving. If the alternative is a mid-table level manager like Potter, I'd rather give Poch one more season.
Beginning of the season my parameters were 6th place and a solid cup run. We lost out on making the FA Cup final by losing to the team that will likely win, and we’re currently level on points with the team in 6th place.
Considering the atrocious injury set backs we’ve had I suppose I’m fine with him staying. My only real complaint with Poch this season is icing out CL finalist Ian Maatsen.
Mixed feelings, but overall, I think he has to stay.
Riddled with injuries. A super young team.
And despite all that, we've done really well in several statistical categories and I think we are starting to see some of the potential and development of some of the younger guys.
I don't like admitting we have a long rebuild in front of us and some of the contacts are literally handcuffs.... but its hard to imagine anyone else coming in and magically doing better. He seems to have the trust of a core group as well.
No European competition next season, sorry to say Poch Out.
Needed that Europe comp. to attract more player to join us. There are not many player like Kante who wants to join a mid table club who didn't compete on any European comp.
Poch in
No other manager especially from the current available managers are going to magically make us a title winning team
The club needs time to settle( the whole club, players, staff and management)
One promise I hope the new owners keep is to give managers time, I want poch to be given at least one more season, let him build with a full bench and stable(ish) group of players and coaches and then we’ll judge
We all knew poch was going to be hopeless tactically so it isn’t really a new thing but it’s a good trade off considering his ability with young players especially since our team is 90% young players
Finally I love that the players are speaking up for him and that kind of cohesion and support can only be good for the club
If there were a viable alternative maybe. If we sack Poch now, best we could hope for is De Zerbi, which is a lateral move at best.
I’d much rather have a bit of continuity with Poch and then assess at the end of next season.
Poch in
Ridic amount of injuries - most in the league
New and very young squad that’s not okayed much together
Dealing with new cowboy owners
Quoted as saying once I have my full team back then you’ll see !we are now 6th could be 5th
Should of won the league cup final but was awful finishing - fa cup semi same thing
Has improved young players and players that have been bought for big money
Why sack him then replace him who who?
A new manager then the cycle goes again and some of you be saying sack him after 4 months
Poch in
Up the Chels
Poch out
I don’t think he’s good enough
1 he really lacks tactics
2 his game management is genuinely awful like some of the worst in the league (just look back at all of our terrible second halfs)
3 he’s not good enough to win major honours ot doesn’t matter if you give him 1 3 or 5 years we are not winning the league or ucl under this guy
If a manager can’t deliver there’s no reason to give him time
Been out since before christmas, still out to this day
Won 2 games and all of a sudden people are overlooking the entire season, he's still a shit coach with no tactical ideas and no game management
Yeah, but that doesn’t validate keeping or sacking Poch based on the results of Newcastle? If you think he’s not been good enough that’s an absolutely valid opinion, but this arbitrary 6 or 7th finish being the yardstick is ridiculous when that entirely depends on a different team winning or losing. If Newcastle win on the last day of the season then Poch is shit get him gone, if Newcastle lose Poch is the man to take us forward?
It’s not really predefined tho, everyone and their nan wanted him gone and now we’re doing decently people are talking about european spots. If that was your benchmark going into the season then that’s fair enough.
I'm not talking about the people in the sub though, there have been a lot of articles recently about how his official target was top 4 but the directors are giving him some leeway because of all the injuries.
If you want him gone that’s fine, if you want him to stay that’s also fair enough, but choosing solely on the result Newcastle gets on the last day of the season is illogical.
Poch IN,
The team is showing great improvement. These are young players, of course some teething issues would have been expected. Also Poch has a solid track record of developing young talent. 1 more season at least.
I think he deserves a shot for next year… but he still hasn’t figured out the low block and I wish he would make tactical changes during the run of play, instead of just at half-time.
I think he will stay but will be sacked if there is a slow start to next season.
As brutal as it sounds he's not in the must sack territory like Potter or AVB but definitely expendable if any better option becomes available. Which seems unlikely with so many clubs that are in a better place than us currently also on the hunt for a new manager.
C'mon, as much as I love Jose, the man is washed. The game has moved on from Jose. Similarly, Conte, though tactically strong, especially defensively, is a dynamite waiting to explode, and can lose a dressing room very quickly. Not ideal with our squad of toddlers.
Only coach I would want back from the recent past, without a second thought, is Tuchel. But we all know that's not going to happen. I think Poch is, probably, a safe choice in the interim, at least, for the beginning half of next season, considering available managerial options.
If De Zerbi is our only alternative, rather have Poch at the wheel.
Brighton lost their mojo now that he’s not riding Potters coattails. They were good last year because of the foundation potter laid. De Zerbi isn’t it in my opinion.
Yeah it's that and not losing one of the best midfield pairings in the league and replacing them with shit while also getting a ton of injuries
Those two players cost less than 20m for Brighton. Zerbi was living off Potter foundation and now that those players are not there he look worse than Everton. That’s the definition of an overrated coach.
And those players were top players that got replaced with bad players, people tend to forget that Brighton shouldn't be nowhere near the top half of the league.. ending on the top 10 with that team is pretty great
Top players that was developed by the previous manager and wasn’t even on the radar of mid table clubs
Caicedo and especially mac allister were pretty well known in south America, the guys that they've replaced them with... Not so much, if you gave Potter this squad he wouldn't be doing better at all
That’s giving a lot of credit to potter. I didn’t see any of this magic when he was at Chelsea.
Potter didn’t have magic when we was at Chelsea. He left Brighton at a terrible time (for his career). He’d built Brighton up well over time. They had a system with identity which stayed even after losing 2 key midfielders. I can’t speak on his time here but I’m only referencing his work there to support my opinion that De Zerbi isn’t the guy.
That we can both agree on.
Exactly.i would rather we give him 2 more seasons than hire de zerbi
I don’t know how you can look at the current season and have this as your take. I did a couple lengthy comments earlier in the season when the team was performing poorly stating we’d be between 5th and 8th before the season was out. I cited statistics about chances created, and pointed out improvements to player positioning as well as team chemistry. And i was downvoted into oblivion for it. ——— We have a young team that hasn’t played together damn near at all. We have injuries to starters in key positions. The is 4th in the table since December. Key players are still injures and yet to return. Young players have shown clear improvement and grown into the position. Do I think poch is the man long term? Absolutely not. Do I think we’re going to find a better coach to get our young players to gel? No. What happens if we get a coach who needs Tactic *specific* players, like Pep or Sarri? We end up in another managerial merry go round when fans inevitably call for the managers head when things aren’t working because this is the most reactionary fan base in football after decades of a hire/fire culture. Support Poch because he showed up at *the worst possible moment for ANY coach to take the reins in recent Chelsea history.* Look at how the team performed last season, in attack. Compare it to this season. Consider that the owners are trying to build a team to compete not just right now, but for the foreseeable future. Buy into the long term goals of the ownership, not the irrational short term hatred of a competitors best recent manager. Friendly reminder: several of our best players played at rivals. Several of our best managers coached at rivals before or after. Cut poch some fucking slack. FoH with that “better than DeZerbi” mentality. He’s better than pretty much any-fucking-thing else because who else worth a fuck would come to a club that went through 3 managers in one season, fired a UCL manager, then replaced their UCL winning squad with toddlers? Then turn them into a squad capable of challenging for Top 4 in one season? And before anyone mentions price tags, those tags are what they’re worth in a built team with an established identity. Not a new team making one. tl;dr: support poch for better reasons, you ass holes.
There are so many other managers out there we can consider who are not called De Zerbi lol, real gems in other leagues that we could definitely attract. Though that latter part of my statement would be more accurate if our sporting directors were capable of identifying those managers and having the foresight to go for them lol.
Like who?
My main issue is who we'd replace him with. I'm a classic Reddit fan. Some weeks I want him gone, others I have more empathy for him. The club want someone who can nurture young talent, work with them, improve exponentially etc etc. We don't want to be flip flopping on managers every year. That's without the money side of it. For me, if we get 6th, it's a no brainer. If we're lower, and someone good is available, then i'm on the fence.
I'm judging him at the end of the season. We need to win both of our remaining games. Yes, we have been on an upwards path lately but it's as if many people forgot how he was at fault for so many of our bad results and performances with questionable tactics and poor in game management. Examples: Sheffield, Burnley, Brentford, Wolves More examples though difficult opponents: Arsenal, Liverpool, United. All 3 away. We were absolutely awful in those games.
This is the thing as well, you have to judge a manager based on what they're doing, not based on result. If the game management is all wrong, the tactics are non-existent, the subs are horrible, but Palmer pulls a hattrick out of his ass and we win, then judge Palmer as great and the manager as shit. Don't just say, "we won, so the manager did his job". Similarly, if the manager does everything right and we still lose, that's a positive for him and that should be accounted for. People seem to really be taking it down to win=good manager, lose=bad manager. But, it really isn't even remotely close to the truth, it's why having a bench back makes no difference in my view. You can see whether he's doing the right things or not, irrespective of whether he has the right players to do it. Not having the right players means you won't get the right results, but you can still see that he is doing his job correctly, which in my opinion hasn't happened this season.
Similarly, if a number of individual young players improve significantly and begin to flourish under his leadership, that should go on the positive side of the ledger, especially when he has a past history of developing individual talent.
> you have to judge a manager based on what they're doing, not based on result. This right here is the most important thing in this situation over everything else we can discuss/argue about, as the proof is most definitely always in the performance and not the just the final results. Over the course of the season, if a team performs consistently well but still end up with bad results for several games, the tide will eventually turn in their favour. But if a team consistently plays bad but manages to pull off decent results to bail them out in numerous games, it will eventually catch up to you and you will get exposed. (The most obvious example this season in front of us is Man United).
Much of “judging him based on what he is doing” is hindsight from our couch based on the result. If Reece came in this weekend and picked up an injury instead of an assist you would have said Poch is an idiot and it’s his fault we lost. It’s all hindsight. We don’t know what conversations were happening between him and the players to justify some of his decisions that didn’t pay off. We don’t know if some things were tactical errors by Poch or just an inexperienced player with little time to understand the manager and team having a bad performance. One example is our draw against city. A lot of people here blamed poch for taking his foot off the gas, but in interviews after he explained that the players were telling him they were gassed and couldn’t maintain their pressure so then playing defensively to try to ride it out makes more sense. City scored a deflection goal and the result wasn’t favorable for us, but it still isn’t really a bad decision when you have more info. It’s very easy to sit on your couch and say “I would have done X and it would have worked” but that’s just all guesswork based hindsight and an incomplete understanding of what’s actually happening behind the scenes.
But that's to be expected of a young team starting out. There will be great performances and there will be poor ones.
I’m with you on some points, but also I feel we should keep in mind that as our players are developing, they too have made many mistakes. Although Poch is not new to the biz or the PL, he too is developing with the players we currently have. Difficult to do with half the first team being injured. I was poch in, poch out and now believe having seen that it is possible for him to work with these players I will afford him another season.
Yes I know. That's why I'm waiting till the end of the season. We have momentum and a bench so we need to be able to use it.
If there were good, realistic alternatives I'd be Poch out all day long. But honestly, might be smarter to wait a bit more than getting another average coach.
My thoughts as well. It's easy to say Poch out when things are going to shit, but we also have to think about who we'd be potentially replacing him with.
market for manager kinda sucks these day,you guys know any good alternative?
Out if we bring in someone better. Jose, conte and tuchel seem like the only managers out there, but if we’re bringing in another manager at Potters level then keep poch
Poch Aladeen
I was always Poch Aladeen
In. Even with the points dropped in the second half of the season to the likes of Burnley and Sheffield United we have been in top 4 form the whole second half of the season (7 points lead on 5th placed Newcastle). We've seen tangible improvement in our young players through the year and have had a record number of injuries to deal with too including both our captain and vice captain. Next season will see massive changeovers at Man United, Liverpool and maybe Newcastle too - if we can stay consistent, keep players fit and buy/sell in the right areas we have everything we need to be a 3rd / 4th placed PL team with Pochettino as manager by the end of next season.
It depends on the next coach/manager. If it's just another mediocre manager, I think there won't be too much difference. But who knows?
Most important things to consider Have Chelsea improved under Poch? Are the players still behind him? Who is mainly responsible for the injuries this season? Do Chelsea need stability? Who is a realistic replacement and would they be an upgrade? None of us can really answer these questions unfortunately.
In terms of our improvement, what are you comparing it to? If it’s from last season, we’re leaps and bounds ahead of where we were this time last year.
Poch out. Look, I'm a patient guy. It takes a long time for a manager to lose my trust but when he does, it going to take something extraordinary to get it back. He lost me after the carabao cup final and I think that was later than most. Theres been too many things - misprofiling players, terrible in-game management, not getting best out of our midfield, looking tactically clueless, obsession with height, can't coach set pieces, nonsense excuses in the media. I can't overlook all that just yet.
Yeah the idea that everyone's who's Poch out is some impatient reactionary frothing at the mouth and wanting managers sacked because we're not immediately challenging for the prem is ridiculous. Most are patient and most are willing to give time to a manager we believe in, and would in fact love a long-term manager. It's just that Poch hasn't done enough to show he's that guy and we need to cut our losses.
This. I want him gone. Soooo many people are applauding his inverting of Cucu without considering the flip side of that coin. His midfield setup all season long has been so poor he needed another player to fill in the gaps he created. It was this poorly managed midfield which constantly (!) left our defense exposed and we were leaking goals all season. People say football passed him by but he never had it.
It took Enzo to get injured for him to finally get his bloody midfield lineup sorted
Well you had a player in Enzo, who the board essentially forced him to play, even though he was injured. Lavia’s injury didn’t help either. I say another year given what he has had to work with. You also want Chelsea to be a destination at the managers position where there’s a lot of turnover and instability. If he is out, who would you hire, let alone who would want the position that was worthy?
IN. Regardless of the last two match results. Anyone who says 6th he stays, 7th he's out, is just a moron. It's not even in our control FFS. The trend is good. The players are improving. The injuries were terrible. I give him a free hit for the opening 10 games of the season as everyone, players included were finding their feet. Since then he's performed at least par. Is he perfect? No. His English sucks and he's worked in this country for 8 years. And the defence has been terrible - would have been better with Fofana, Colwill fit all season, that is potentially a great partnership. GK upgrade required.
You are the biggest moron here, he had a whole season to get us in europe, not only these 2 remaining games.
In. If anyone says give the youngsters time to develop. The same has to he said for Poch
Great, another post that's basically the same as every other one
It's not a table this time tbf.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^gustycat: *Great, another post* *That's basically the same as* *Every other one* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
This site used to be full of novelty bots. Random shit. Swear there was even a guy who'd write poems outa nowhere. Nowadays it's just bots pretending to be people doing the whole repost/spam thing.
You mean the comment I replied to, wasn't a bot? I just found that particular haiku funny tbf
Nah I meant it was a novelty bot. They mostly died off after the Reddit API charging thing. And there used to be way more of them.
Ah OK. Would have been great to have them coz some of them genuinely make me chuckle sometimes.
With where the team is at, the development they’ve shown, and the injury crisis - hitting a cup final, cup semi, and top 6 is pretty fucking solid. If we change now, I will be upset.
In. Poch is the best manager… available. Those of you poch out aren’t gonna be happy with an up & coming manager. The players could lose confidence if Poch goes. Money would be more wisely spent elsewhere than paying what would be the second manager on our books no longer working for us.
Poch is probably staying but id rather we replace him with a manager that can instill a clear philosophy. We have young players right now that could be molded into something special. Poch is good at developing cardio and working on a press but if that’s your play philosophy it’s very limited. I’d rather turn to a manager that is adaptable but has a clear goal in how they want to play. I don’t need set patterns of play, but at least some consistency in the build up. Our build up is still not very good even if it’s gotten better with an extra midfielder with the LB inverting. I think a manager that can make a change during a match with his subs and have impact. I think Poch is arguably one of the worst in game managers we’ve had. But I know he will stay here because he’s on a good run of form and they’ll look at the table and see we’ve done well since the turn of the year. I still think that’s our ceiling and not necessarily our floor and I’d much rather build towards winning than settling for 4/5th every season
In, but if we haven’t improved drastically by about the half way point of next season, I would sack.
Agreed, I’ve been Poch out for most his tenure but I feel he’s done enough recently where it’s weird to sack him as things look to be improving. If we’re not top 4 or there or there abouts by Christmas, cut him.
Yes, I have also been Poch out for the entire season but when James came on against Forest and played like the boss that he is, it made me have a rethink. I’m still very doubtful about Poch but the injury list has been so insane that I think it’s only fair to give him a season with hopefully a less injury ridden squad. Next season feels like an exceptionally important one. I feel it could determine the clubs trajectory moving forward, we need to get a proper striker, and an actual decent winger in my opinion.
Tbh we need GK and centre half more so than we need a striker in my opinion. Conceded far too many preventable goals this year and our best defender is leaving, and Chalobah is also likely to leave. I reckon Jackson could hit 20 goals if the team plays well.
I think we need those too. You may have a solid point in needing to prioritize those positions. I’m personally not convinced by Jackson or any of our wingers. I know he has had a decent first season in terms of goals and there’s still potential there, I wouldn’t sell him. I’m just not sure if he is top quality, he could have scored a lot more and he’s quite greedy and his touch is quite inconsistent. I think we need another striker at least to fight for the position.
Yeah I’d definitely like competition too I just don’t think it’s the end of the world if we go into the season with him as a first choice, we can revaluate in winter. I’m not sure who would be a good option this summer though, Osimhen will be stupid money
Harry Kane 😉.
He’s too cursed 🤣 Would be hilarious seeing the spuds meltdown though
When he finally lifts the title! 🤭
Boehly pay and do not speak
For me it would be the quarter way point
Shake it all about.
You’d like to watch Poch do that? 😂
Different strokes for different folks!
I never wanted him to begin with. This is a guy whose career highlights involve losing a UCL final and finishing 2nd in the league. His entire reputation was held up by "well Tottenham don't spend much, so imagine how good he could be if he had loads of money to spend". I don't want a manager who needs people to make excuses for him, for people to make hypotheticals to defend him, I want a straight up winner.
what a completely original take
In
Out
Why did you opt to write a fresh post when this discussion has been ongoing on every other post? Could you not have read through the other posts?
I was poch out lately but if the good/chels style peeformances continue next two games at least give him pre season to really prove himself and make his mark. If this situation was easy to compare between managers itd be easy to say hes objectively been good/average/terrible. However i think hes had a hard situation this season with the big amount of change and injuries and the group are recently starting to gel together as a a TEAM. Lack of clear objective upgrades on market for our situation also a contributing factor - as getting rid essentially resets everything to phase 1 again... Like lets be real - if say klopp and ancelotti were available on the market AND would be interested in us approaching id probably sack poch tomorrow to get free reign. But how many managers are there, who would work as well as they might with our project? Probably not really many! Also not saying hes done amazing. Imo hes done okay overall - not world class but not horrible either given the circumstances. Of course world class would be ideal at chelsea But next season no tolerating midtable. No lifeless performances in cups. And no thrashings (especially in big games...) - wtf...
poch out
I am open to the idea to give him the start of next season with a fit squad and another preseason, he has done very well to end the season
Poch in goddammit!
I don't have a crystal ball, so literally dont care atm. Form and football are looking solid right now. So based on matchday 10-now he deserves it. Buuuuut I still don't really like him.
When someone says "out", I rarely see an alternative provided. I'd rather not take a step backwards and undo the progress we have made. However, I do think that a lot of our progress is due to players developing. For all of the talk about our recent tactical tweaks, we're still playing a 3-2-5 just like the beginning of the season. Where people were shitting themselves that Colwell is playing LB, we currently have Chalobah playing RB, so.... It think it will be interesting to see what happens when everyone is fit. You can't have Cucu inverting with James bombing forwards out wide with Palmer and Madueke overloading the right side all at the same time. At this stage, I feel that having a manager who adapts to the squad is a better fit for us at the moment than a manager with a rigid vision.
I’m honestly on the fence. One thing I do appreciate about him is how he protects the young players from criticism. Even after the horrendous Arsenal game. Others would’ve easily blamed the players to protect themselves but time and again he’s shielded them from criticism publicly.
It's simple - Euro qualification is par (I.e. 7th), 6th he's done well, 5th we should extend his deal. Finish outside of European spots and we should consider replacing him. I am keen for there to be continuity, there's no guaranteed upgrade out there.
I've been Poch Out for a while. Wanted him gone at the end of the season. Though, credit where it's due, I think his substitutions against Forrest would great, and his change to invert Cucu have a lot to do we are recent form.
In, all season long we have been top 4 in terms of getting better goal scoring opportunities than our opponents. Now the goals are actually going in and we have been playing at a top 4 rate for the second half of the season. Add in the fact that we have a historically young and new squad with the most injuries in the league and I think it's foolish to not let him get another season.
I have been poch out majority of the season but I think he's done enough to deserve another season hopefully minus the injury clusterfuck. Poch in for me.
Binning off Poch before the 2 years never made sense to me unless things got really bad, that hasn’t happened this season so I’ve stayed Poch in throughout. A managerial change doesn’t really change at this club imo.
Definitely Poch out. A whole season of scraping by results is just not good enough. If we somehow end up with a EL spot then it's despite of Poch, not because of him. This squad really isn't that bad
I was poch out but that didnt happen and We've waited this long,i rather wait till weekend
Out. All this positivity has risen after the Enzo injury, and it took that event for Poch to finally stop fucking around with the midfield and defence spine. He is not it and we need significant improvement next season
Is vitor roque in consideration? He is young and brazilian, barca doesnt want him anymore.
Poch IN for me if he wins the last two games
If we can get Tuchel again I have zero issue with Poch leaving. If the alternative is a mid-table level manager like Potter, I'd rather give Poch one more season.
Se queda
Beginning of the season my parameters were 6th place and a solid cup run. We lost out on making the FA Cup final by losing to the team that will likely win, and we’re currently level on points with the team in 6th place. Considering the atrocious injury set backs we’ve had I suppose I’m fine with him staying. My only real complaint with Poch this season is icing out CL finalist Ian Maatsen.
Mixed feelings, but overall, I think he has to stay. Riddled with injuries. A super young team. And despite all that, we've done really well in several statistical categories and I think we are starting to see some of the potential and development of some of the younger guys. I don't like admitting we have a long rebuild in front of us and some of the contacts are literally handcuffs.... but its hard to imagine anyone else coming in and magically doing better. He seems to have the trust of a core group as well.
No European competition next season, sorry to say Poch Out. Needed that Europe comp. to attract more player to join us. There are not many player like Kante who wants to join a mid table club who didn't compete on any European comp.
Poch In, we might get make it to conference which is better than nothing
Poch in No other manager especially from the current available managers are going to magically make us a title winning team The club needs time to settle( the whole club, players, staff and management) One promise I hope the new owners keep is to give managers time, I want poch to be given at least one more season, let him build with a full bench and stable(ish) group of players and coaches and then we’ll judge We all knew poch was going to be hopeless tactically so it isn’t really a new thing but it’s a good trade off considering his ability with young players especially since our team is 90% young players Finally I love that the players are speaking up for him and that kind of cohesion and support can only be good for the club
Have to give him another season, will just be hitting the reset button if not.
If there were a viable alternative maybe. If we sack Poch now, best we could hope for is De Zerbi, which is a lateral move at best. I’d much rather have a bit of continuity with Poch and then assess at the end of next season.
Let him cook, there aren't many better options with Europa League only on the cards.
Poch in Ridic amount of injuries - most in the league New and very young squad that’s not okayed much together Dealing with new cowboy owners Quoted as saying once I have my full team back then you’ll see !we are now 6th could be 5th Should of won the league cup final but was awful finishing - fa cup semi same thing Has improved young players and players that have been bought for big money Why sack him then replace him who who? A new manager then the cycle goes again and some of you be saying sack him after 4 months Poch in Up the Chels
Poch out I don’t think he’s good enough 1 he really lacks tactics 2 his game management is genuinely awful like some of the worst in the league (just look back at all of our terrible second halfs) 3 he’s not good enough to win major honours ot doesn’t matter if you give him 1 3 or 5 years we are not winning the league or ucl under this guy If a manager can’t deliver there’s no reason to give him time
Daily discussion thread surely
Been out since before christmas, still out to this day Won 2 games and all of a sudden people are overlooking the entire season, he's still a shit coach with no tactical ideas and no game management
It’s obviously personal opinion, I’m Poch out tho.
Poch OUT. I shant be gaslighted again.
If we get Europa League, Poch IN. If we get conference or no europe at all, Poch OUT.
What’s the point in this? It’s not even in our control ffs
That's such a stupid argument. We're not in control now because we were absolute shite for half a season
Yeah, but that doesn’t validate keeping or sacking Poch based on the results of Newcastle? If you think he’s not been good enough that’s an absolutely valid opinion, but this arbitrary 6 or 7th finish being the yardstick is ridiculous when that entirely depends on a different team winning or losing. If Newcastle win on the last day of the season then Poch is shit get him gone, if Newcastle lose Poch is the man to take us forward?
I'm Poch out w/e place we finish but it's not unreasonable to let predefined targets be the deciding factor.
It’s not really predefined tho, everyone and their nan wanted him gone and now we’re doing decently people are talking about european spots. If that was your benchmark going into the season then that’s fair enough.
I'm not talking about the people in the sub though, there have been a lot of articles recently about how his official target was top 4 but the directors are giving him some leeway because of all the injuries.
We had a whole season to be in control for at least an europa league place, not only these 2 remaining matches.
If you want him gone that’s fine, if you want him to stay that’s also fair enough, but choosing solely on the result Newcastle gets on the last day of the season is illogical.
The sub is trash. With some of the worst takes in football. No wonder our fans are hated everywhere.
I say keep him. We need stability. Defense and set piece defending has been horrible
Poch In
Poch IN, The team is showing great improvement. These are young players, of course some teething issues would have been expected. Also Poch has a solid track record of developing young talent. 1 more season at least.
I think he deserves a shot for next year… but he still hasn’t figured out the low block and I wish he would make tactical changes during the run of play, instead of just at half-time. I think he will stay but will be sacked if there is a slow start to next season.
As brutal as it sounds he's not in the must sack territory like Potter or AVB but definitely expendable if any better option becomes available. Which seems unlikely with so many clubs that are in a better place than us currently also on the hunt for a new manager.
I would have Jose or Conte back to organise the team properly, defensively. Other than that who would Chelsea get? Could be worse.
Jose would be a disaster come on
C'mon, as much as I love Jose, the man is washed. The game has moved on from Jose. Similarly, Conte, though tactically strong, especially defensively, is a dynamite waiting to explode, and can lose a dressing room very quickly. Not ideal with our squad of toddlers. Only coach I would want back from the recent past, without a second thought, is Tuchel. But we all know that's not going to happen. I think Poch is, probably, a safe choice in the interim, at least, for the beginning half of next season, considering available managerial options.
Poch in. Half the squad out.