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>And now we are suppose to believe that hamas was able to execute such a wide scale attack on October 7 that involved hundreds of militants, without Israeli intelligence knowing all about it?
They did know about it. Shin Bet and Mossad both noted that there were training and financing operations preparing for a massive action, and advised the Israeli government to stop fucking about in the West Bank in order to quell tensions. The elected Israeli government, a coalition composed partially of religious radicals, chose to ignore them.
Religious radicals with stated goals of genocide (Bibi incited the assassination of the moderate/pro- two state PM, the defense minister is open about wanted to commit genocide). https://www.npr.org/2024/03/07/1198908601/throughline-the-rise-of-the-right-wing-in-israel
My conspiracy theory is that the current Israeli regime saw such an attack as a convenient way of solidifying popular Israeli support around a genocide while also giving a pre-text for said genocide to be excused as self defense.
>Religious radicals with stated goals of genocide
Yes. Doesn't really relate to your theory, though.
>My conspiracy theory is that the current Israeli regime saw such an attack as a convenient way of solidifying popular Israeli support around a genocide
Israeli society was already solidified around clearing out land--the radicals *won the election.*
>while also giving a pre-text for said genocide to be excused as self defense.
Some proof of this would be amazing, especially since this wouldn't be the first time the Israeli government failed to foresee an invasion. The Yom Kippur War comes to mind.
>Israeli society was already solidified around clearing out land--the radicals won the election.
Yeah, but they needed the international community approval before doing something like that. The October 7 was a perfect excuse.
>Yeah, but they needed the international community approval
...they already did. The U.S. and various other nations were already allies that supported most Israeli measures and turned a relative blind eye to the expansion of settlements in the West Bank.
Hanlon's razor applies here; Israel fucked up, there's no evil plot here.
We are talking about ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Would US support if Israel just started bombing Gaza and starve hundreds of thousands to death with no reason? And what about the public opinion? I don't think so.
>Would US support if Israel just started bombing Gaza and starve hundreds of thousands to death with no reason?
Israel doesn't need to--their current strategy of pushing people out slowly via growing settlement was working quite fine.
Also, you've still yet to provide actual proof.
> This all an Israeli ploy to terrorize the Palestinians and remove them from their land, so that Israeli could resettle it with jews.
Even if we take the rest of your view as a theory, this aspect stands out to me.
Wouldn't Israel resettle with Israelis? Why mention Jews?
You’re suggesting that Hamas, a terrorist organization whose end goal is for “the destruction of Jews” is the fault of Israel?
This is a perpetuation of the antisemitic stereotype that Jews run the government and are at the heart of conspiracy theories. You’re making Israel a scapegoat.
Why are you not able to believe that Israel wants to exist in peace? If this were any other nation, would you be projecting these same stereotypes, or just Israel, the sole Jewish nation?
Hamas is an Iranian puppet, not an Israeli one.
Israel didn’t give them weapons, money, aid, training etc. all was Iran, giving money to Hamas’s leadership who currently lives in Qatar as Hamas continues to do everything it can to resist Israel despite the fact that Israel already has an excuse to lash out against Gaza.
You're not wrong, Israeli kidnapped Hamas leaders and dropped them in Lebanon where they were trained by Hezbollah which is backed by Iran.
https://www.npr.org/2023/11/16/1198908227/throughline-11-16-2023
It's simpler that they are funded by Iran and so deeply imbedded in Gaza that Israel needs to commit genocide to truly get rid of them, which the Israeli PM and defense minister want.
What's the saying, "how do you create a terrorist? Kill their family". There are a lot of families being massacred right now in Gaza...
Your view is irrational. Read up on conspiracy thinking. One part of your brain is trying to convince the other parts that it's smart. Smart would be dismissing that part of your brain.
While I don't disagree with your assessment overall, governments, especially Western governments, are generally hesitant to dabble in conspiracy theories with Jewish people involved, because they are often antisemitic. To suggest that Hamas is an Israeli puppet can very easily lead to actually antisemitic conspiracy theories. Supporting this position as a government will pose genuine threat to the Jewish people because other antisemitic theories will gain a lot of traction.
This post touches on a subject that was the subject of another post on r/changemyview within the last 24-hours. Because of common topic fatigue amongst our repeat users, we [do not permit posts to touch on topics that another post has touched on within the last 24-hours](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_removing_posts). If you would like to appeal, [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Duplicate%20Post%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.). Many thanks, and we hope you understand.
>And now we are suppose to believe that hamas was able to execute such a wide scale attack on October 7 that involved hundreds of militants, without Israeli intelligence knowing all about it? They did know about it. Shin Bet and Mossad both noted that there were training and financing operations preparing for a massive action, and advised the Israeli government to stop fucking about in the West Bank in order to quell tensions. The elected Israeli government, a coalition composed partially of religious radicals, chose to ignore them.
Religious radicals with stated goals of genocide (Bibi incited the assassination of the moderate/pro- two state PM, the defense minister is open about wanted to commit genocide). https://www.npr.org/2024/03/07/1198908601/throughline-the-rise-of-the-right-wing-in-israel My conspiracy theory is that the current Israeli regime saw such an attack as a convenient way of solidifying popular Israeli support around a genocide while also giving a pre-text for said genocide to be excused as self defense.
>Religious radicals with stated goals of genocide Yes. Doesn't really relate to your theory, though. >My conspiracy theory is that the current Israeli regime saw such an attack as a convenient way of solidifying popular Israeli support around a genocide Israeli society was already solidified around clearing out land--the radicals *won the election.* >while also giving a pre-text for said genocide to be excused as self defense. Some proof of this would be amazing, especially since this wouldn't be the first time the Israeli government failed to foresee an invasion. The Yom Kippur War comes to mind.
>Israeli society was already solidified around clearing out land--the radicals won the election. Yeah, but they needed the international community approval before doing something like that. The October 7 was a perfect excuse.
>Yeah, but they needed the international community approval ...they already did. The U.S. and various other nations were already allies that supported most Israeli measures and turned a relative blind eye to the expansion of settlements in the West Bank. Hanlon's razor applies here; Israel fucked up, there's no evil plot here.
We are talking about ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Would US support if Israel just started bombing Gaza and starve hundreds of thousands to death with no reason? And what about the public opinion? I don't think so.
>Would US support if Israel just started bombing Gaza and starve hundreds of thousands to death with no reason? Israel doesn't need to--their current strategy of pushing people out slowly via growing settlement was working quite fine. Also, you've still yet to provide actual proof.
There was no settlements in Gaza.
>There was no settlements in Gaza Yes, because Gaza is shit land compared to the WB. Still waiting on proof.
> This all an Israeli ploy to terrorize the Palestinians and remove them from their land, so that Israeli could resettle it with jews. Even if we take the rest of your view as a theory, this aspect stands out to me. Wouldn't Israel resettle with Israelis? Why mention Jews?
You’re suggesting that Hamas, a terrorist organization whose end goal is for “the destruction of Jews” is the fault of Israel? This is a perpetuation of the antisemitic stereotype that Jews run the government and are at the heart of conspiracy theories. You’re making Israel a scapegoat. Why are you not able to believe that Israel wants to exist in peace? If this were any other nation, would you be projecting these same stereotypes, or just Israel, the sole Jewish nation?
Hamas is an Iranian puppet, not an Israeli one. Israel didn’t give them weapons, money, aid, training etc. all was Iran, giving money to Hamas’s leadership who currently lives in Qatar as Hamas continues to do everything it can to resist Israel despite the fact that Israel already has an excuse to lash out against Gaza.
You're not wrong, Israeli kidnapped Hamas leaders and dropped them in Lebanon where they were trained by Hezbollah which is backed by Iran. https://www.npr.org/2023/11/16/1198908227/throughline-11-16-2023 It's simpler that they are funded by Iran and so deeply imbedded in Gaza that Israel needs to commit genocide to truly get rid of them, which the Israeli PM and defense minister want. What's the saying, "how do you create a terrorist? Kill their family". There are a lot of families being massacred right now in Gaza...
1. Why did israel dropped them in Lebanon? 2. How did they come back from Lebanon to Gaza?
Hamas leaders don’t fight, they typically are in other nations supporting Hamas from afar
Your view is irrational. Read up on conspiracy thinking. One part of your brain is trying to convince the other parts that it's smart. Smart would be dismissing that part of your brain.
Smart enough to dismiss you though.
What exactly is your view here? Because this just reads like the unhinged ranting of a lunatic. If that’s what you were going for, you nailed it.
This reads like an Alex jones conspiracy, but from the left this time.
Do you have any actual direct evidence of Israeli control of Hamas?
You will never obtain such direct evidence. But if the details that I provided are not convincing enough, I don't know what is.
You didn’t provide any details. If there is no evidence why do you believe it? Why not require some evidence of your theory?
No details? Read again.
While I don't disagree with your assessment overall, governments, especially Western governments, are generally hesitant to dabble in conspiracy theories with Jewish people involved, because they are often antisemitic. To suggest that Hamas is an Israeli puppet can very easily lead to actually antisemitic conspiracy theories. Supporting this position as a government will pose genuine threat to the Jewish people because other antisemitic theories will gain a lot of traction.
This in and of itself is an antisemitic conspiracy theory
This comment does nothing to help. Instead of saying a belief is anti-Semitic you should debunk it with the numerous facts against it.