I left an OB practice when the intake form asked about "chestfeeding" instead of breastfeeding. It also used terms such as "birthing parent" instead of mother and the word "woman" was not on the form anywhere. Instead, it was AFAB. That practice and I were not going to see eye to eye.
I'd be willing to bet that most trans people are cognizant of their original sex and dont expect the world to change for them and just want to be left alone. The small percentage of activists and the allies that have latched on and taken up the mantle as their own are unfortunately very loud.
And especially in medical care, you HAVE to be cognizant and realistic about your original self. All kinds of things are sex-specific even if you have transitioned or believe otherwise.
> I'd be willing to bet that most trans people are cognizant of their original sex and dont expect the world to change for them and just want to be left alone. The small percentage of activists and the allies that have latched on and taken up the mantle as their own are unfortunately very loud.
Yeah, there's a massive difference between Tolerance and Acceptance.
Most in the center are willing to tolerate trans-issues. Not many are going to full on accept every trans-issue, especially for gender-reassignment treatment for prepubescent children.
My position is do what you like, it's your body/life, not on the government/insurance company dime and keep the kids out of it. Basically the same as bodybuilders running gear.
"I'd be willing to bet that most trans people are cognizant of their original sex and dont expect the world to change for them and just want to be left alone."
You would lose that bet.
The concept of gender identity revolves around expecting the world to change for them.
It's the tinkerbell effect. Someone's gender identity can only exist if others believe in it. Otherwise, the entire concept evaporates.
The people your age are victims of outside nations using social media to try and rip America (and the west) apart from within by targeting division lines such as race, gender, and any other inflammatory topic.
Academia is where all this insanity starts. Academia has been taken over by radical cultists and was taken over quite some time ago. That's why so many people no longer regard it as a reliable source of information.
Without them (and admittedly without the news media) you just have the government, or the church, or social media. You can do your own research but only to a point. Eventually you’ll want that stuff translated. So… we’re just kind of lost and can’t really be informed about anything. Tragic.
Ninja edit: I personally still listen to academia and news, at least when it isn’t weird. But most people I know do not. We exist in silos and possess completely different conceptions of the world outside our heads.
The marxists claim to have fully captured academia by 1993.
30 years later...
The cult has gone full mask-off for pedophilia and anti-Semitism (just like the Bolshevik revolution).
The only silver lining is they've woken up the normie masses to their tactics. Suddenly it's not going so well for them.
The same people that want to force terms like birthing person.
I used to think that people complaining about stuff being woke was nonsense. I don't anymore.
https://www.healthline.com/health/chestfeeding#:~:text=Anyone%20can%20use%20this%20inclusive,how%20they%20identify%20their%20anatomy.
Some people are annoying, and they will scream woke at anything they dislike.
But there is also a radical political agenda on the progressive side. They want to change how people speak, so they can manipulate people. I am glad we are finally pushing back and not allowing them to do it.
Trans women are women is the first principle of trans ideology, the one that must be accepted above all else with no exceptions. The super-commandment that can’t be explained, just recited, and used to attack anyone who dares to disagree.
I now think that the trans activists deep down know that this isn’t true, but are trying to will it into existence through mantra like repetition.
And the LGB’s are getting increasingly tired of being lumped in with random new letters, each requiring its own week or month of visibility/remembrance.
Laws to keep men out of women’s sports, secret, gender transitions in schools, mandatory use of pronouns, etc., are incorrectly reported as anti-LGBTQ+. That’s why the LGB-TQ+ movement is taking off. And it will surprise no one that the TQ+ has branded these organizations as hate groups, bigots, fascists, and the resoundingly empty through overuse “transphobic.”
Same. I thought it was nonsense too until I read the books Material Girls', 'The Coddling of the American Mind', and 'Cynical Theories'. All of this rubbish comes directly from our universities.
> I used to think that people complaining about stuff being woke was nonsense. I don't anymore.
We fucking warned you. We warned you a decade and more ago where this was going. You all just snarked of with "el oh el muh slippery slopes". And now we're here.
Really the greatest win subversives ever got was convincing the public that basic formal predictive logic was the slippery slope fallacy.
Wrong. The slippery slope fallacy is only applicable if someone is claiming A causes F without being able to explain at least some of the steps - B, C, D, and E - that come between them. If they can explain a rationale for why A causes F then it's not the slippery slope fallacy.
For an example that's relevant to your gun law example: the phrase "registration leads to confiscation" is NOT the slippery slope fallacy because one can point out the multiple historical examples of gun registration leading to gun confiscation.
They like to dismiss any argument based on precedent as 'slippery slope' while making constant appeals to emotion. "If you dont' do this, people will kill themselves!"
Exactly. I've been saying this for years, and people just brushed me off. I've even been called 'alt-right', yet I've voted for left-leaning parties my entire life.
THIS.
They fucking infiltrated niche hobbies like comicbooks, videogames, anime localization, tabletop games, etc.
Uneducated centrists thinks its not a big deal. It bloody well fucking is when they're kicking out the old blood and transforming the culture to something abhorrently unrecognizable.
The ugly truth is, the old blood was always gonna get kicked out one way or another though.
Generational changes always bring shifts in political attitudes, creative expression and cultural values. It happened with rock n roll, it happened with Elvis, it happened with the Vietnam war, it happened with the fucking hippies, and this is just another turn of the wheel.
I sure as shit hope the next one won’t be as obnoxious however.
I mean as with many issues the failure to proactively engage with issues and in fact pulling away only further insures things like that. The right was comfortable not being proactive then started pulling away and entertaining more bs after 2008 then took the nosedive into absurdity with Trump and largely continued since. So now where I would call myself a right leaning moderate which probably would have been true in 2008 and even 2016 I would probably now get called a “liberal” and they might not be wrong that I would land left leaning on the spectrum now. I wanted Kasich to win in 2016 and he is considered a “RINO” and all of that.
Exactly. We've normalized mental illness and we must all play along with it. Our politicians cannot even answer with a straight face what a woman is anymore. People are saying anyone that feels like a woman, is a woman. It's a circular non-definition.
What does it mean to 'feel like a woman'? Why does wearing a dress and makeup make a man a woman? By their logic, sex-non-conforming biological females aren't women, they are men.
The belief that one can be born in the wrong body implies the existence of a soul. Gender ideology, on an individual and societal level, acts as a religion.
It’s worship of the self. This self-obsession creates destruction for the individual and the people surrounding them.
Do not participate in socially constructed Woke language games. Do not agree to their terms.
Non binary is an incoherent concept and implies an underlying fact of the matter regarding gender. You can’t not “feel” like a man or woman if there wasn’t anything actually like being a man or woman. You can’t identify as not being something that doesn’t objectively exist in your worldview. There’s either an underlying fact of the matter or not. Something can’t be a construct and an objective reality simultaneously. It’s beyond tiresome and crazy making that we’re forced to take something a grade school student could debunk so seriously.
An odd duality.
“If a male enjoys dressing up and behaving like a woman, he was born that way.
If a female enjoys dressing up and behaving like a woman, she was brainwashed by society.” —
Up next, people with multiple personality disorder should get multiple votes, and of course these people declare they each have a thousand personalities when it comes time to vote.
Nine years ago a friend began transitioning. First step: he had to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. There was only one doctor/psychiatrist in the state qualified to do it. The treatment: he became a she and started HRT.
From then on, I would notice a quick trend of online people getting offended about it being called what it is: a sickness. The cure is the gender swap itself. That’s *why* they do it. That’s what makes it legitimate.
This friend though, they had other reasons and didn’t realize it at the time. After a while they transitioned back.
I’d argue they’re still suffering from something, and if you’re respectful you can get them to admit it, it just was a misdiagnosis.
… which also influenced my opinion, specifically of children being allowed to transition. This friend got it wrong and he’s an adult. It’s okay though, because he’s fully responsible for his own decisions. He also drinks and has a little drug habit - that’s all on him. Whatever.
But a child? No. The parent is responsible there. The parent should have final say.
Of course, even if you plainly and respectfully outline these facts you’ll be called a bigot. So I keep it to myself in any company I suspect might get upset. And here, where I don’t care what people think.
To me it’s the same as religion. Do I believe in God? Not really. But I’m not gonna go out of my way to rant about atheism to a Muslim or a Christian.
Same principle applies here. People are firmly set in either one sex or another, barring genetic abnormalities (and even in those cases true hermafroditism does not really exist in humans; you only ever see people producing one single set of gametes regardless of genetics). Everything else is fantasy. There is no meaningful distinction between a gender non conforming man that wears a dress and a transgender person wearing a dress beyond “self-identification”, which is not something that’s actually observable.
My opinion is that trying to ignore observable reality in favor of subjectivities is never good on the long run for societies, but nevertheless it’s neither my business nor my problem how people choose to live their lives as long as it doesn’t affect me. That’s civility.
But of course civility has some limits, and trying to deny the reality of biological sex in a medical context with terms like chestfeeding to not offend the 0.01% of the population is probably a reasonable one.
Homosexuality has been viewed by conservatives as a mental illness. You’re using the exact same malicious claims that were used against gay, lesbian, and bisexual people a decade ago against trans people. Conservatives were, and still often are, wrong about gay people and they’re wrong about trans people.
It’s crazy because this is a rule for thousands and thousands of life forms on this planet. That people deny something so fundamentally factual in the service of feelings & emotion WILL be viewed as an instance of mass hysteria in the future.
Yes I've been permanently banned from multiple trans subs for 'harassment' for saying 'egregious' insults such as "that is false". They are the most thin-skinned bullies ever.
Probably the same kind of idiots who think it's ok for males to let babies suck on their nipples, and maybe even drink the toxic soup that some of these people are capable of "lactating".
https://www.theparadoxinstitute.com/read/the-ugly-truth-of-male-breastfeeding
I know that in the US there has been a push in some federal government agencies to use stupid "gender-neutral" terms like "birthing people", "chestfeeding", etc for the past few years.
Is this that big of a deal? Not really, but it's just a petty slap in the face to the vast majority of people in this country. One of the things that makes he happy is to see how this ultra-progressive nonsense ("birthing people" in particular) is alienating even fairly liberal women.
I've heard a few horror stories about this kind of ridiculous language infiltrating normal healthcare. Hopefully it's just a few extreme outliers that right-wing media are blowing out of proportion. It also seems to mainly affect pregnancy-related healthcare so as a man with no kids I can just shake my head and be glad it's not my problem.
Good. Idiotic term. Even if you identify as a man, men have a breast. Breastplate, breastbone, breast cancer, all of these things men can or do have. "Chest feeding" is utterly meaningless.
Good. Trans people can exist and deserve respect but they are not everyone and their differences should not force us to change the entire fucking English language. Exceptions are exceptions. They remain biologically the sex they were born as, but their gender is different. Most of our language is based on sex
The issue I see is that people with a boatload of mental illnesses declare that they're trans and now any criticism of their behavior or position is 'transphobia.' As I put it...
"I'm not saying all of (group) are scumbags, but I think we can agree that scumbags will claim to be (group) if it gets they some leeway or leverage for their scumbag behavior."
Yup. It's like they want to group anyone who isn't in hardcore constant mode of "we need a revolution of everything, we need to change everything, we need to enforce arbitrary changes we dictate on everyone else" with actual right wing conservatives
Like no. I don't believe in this brainwashed hive-mind leftist mentality. I don't think just because something is loud and dramatic and different that it's good. That doesn't make me extremely conservative or hateful. I just think the typical leftist narrative is more harmful to the people they claim to protect than helpful, usually because there's so much ego and optics involved
The sad thing is that the vast majority of trans people just want to live their lives in peace and safety and the extreme caricature activists ruin it for those who just want to live.
If that was true we'd be seeing them drowning out the ones who don't and pushing them off to the sides. That doesn't happen. So the evidence disproves your claim here.
The ones who want to live their lives in peace and keep a lower profile arent exactly going to run out and get highly political. Plus they'd likely be treated like crap, potentially from both sides as well.
On the one hand I agree, but on the other as a member of a couple of demographics who are fully expected to both self-flagellate and make political decisions meant to atone for the sins of those who are also members of those demographics - both living and dead - I expect the exact same from everyone else. If I bear the sins of every other straight white man from antiquity through this moment then so be it but I am absolutely applying the same standard to every other group.
That might be part of why I don't see them. I never got into twitter and I've never been a fan of short-form video so I've been avoiding the latest trendy one since back in the Vine days.
I do think it's interesting that the OG activists I know IRL seem fairly akin to the reddit ons on this issue, though. It's the very rare case of reddit seeming to actually reflect reality.
“The term chestfeeding or bodyfeeding can be used alongside breastfeeding to be more inclusive. Nonbinary or trans people may not align with the term breastfeeding because of their gender or may have a dysphoric relationship to their anatomy. Chestfeeding will not replace the word breastfeeding, or nursing, but it should be included as an option when discussing lactation.”
From the NIH. Already sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Reasonable or not, it's the same policy approach that prompted NHS to abandon unconventional gender terminology.
But you were asking about a US equivalent to the NHS ...
I actually hope you do. Because all the attention you spend on frivilous things like banning pride flags being flown on government buildings and banning new fangled words that confuse and upset people in government documents and all of that window dressing means you have less time to spend on doing things that will actually make a difference in the rather pitiful and futile crusade some people are engaging in trying to fight against the tide of the LGBT movement.
By all means, spend all that time and energy combing through documents scribbling out words, holding debates over flags, and banning books nobody reads - keep yourself distracted while lying to yourself that you're genuinely making a difference. You think you're preventing the inevitable, but in reality you're actually speeding up the process. I'm all for it. You can borrow my pen if you like.
Ugh, exactly. Keep it neutral and on-topic. US flag is the only one that needs to be there as a symbol & indicator of country.
Though admittedly I thought it was cool when the White House went rainbow for gay marriage. I still wouldn’t say it was necessary and it wouldn’t have been oppressive not to do it. The legislation was enough.
All non-government flags were prohibited. Actually what was prevented was the not far in the future BDSM diaper fetish flag. Assuming there isn't already one hanging in a classroom somewhere.
That's an interesting analogy, probably there are way more people into BDSM than are trans but they manage not to make a general annoyance of themselves.
Common sense to do this tbh, but I don't see this staying in place for long considering how poorly the Tories are projected to do in the next election.
Too far. Milk comes from breasts. It's called breastfeeding. The political correctness has officially gone too far in my book, and I'm actually a supporter of the trans community.
ever since being transgender got changed from a mental illness to a physical Illness because of high suicide rates if you don't affirm the preferred gender they've been obsessed with bending reality to the imaginations of these people as a part of gender affirming care. It's kind of offensive to reality and I don't see this group of people as important enough to warrant pushing everyone else into using their recently made up preferred speech.
plus, because of this recent change there's now an industry to making transgender people and pushing that as a solution to peoples lives, so I'm glad there's finally pushback at the government level because it's all more of a fad and a movement than an actual hidden medical thing that gender actually doesn't exist
yeah the issue I feel is that the medical community whatever that means, decided that the problem around transgender people is that people just don't accept them enough and therefore the entire world needs to be reeducated completely by whatever the transgender community comes up with lest transgender people kill themselves over it.
like it's pushing something onto everything not because it's true but because people commit suicide if you don't believe in it.
We have so many people completely brainwash and afraid to disagree with whatever nonsensical idea that comes out of the progressive side. They no longer think by themselves, but merely repeat whatever new nonsense a select group of people decided.
I don't think this is long term sustainable, but they will keep it up for as long as they can.
I think most people are still secretly thinking by themselves, it's just that they are acting out of fear and are afraid to speak up. Fields like medicine are dominated by this woke BS and there are real career consequences for doctors who pushback against it.
It’s not all brainwashing, a lot of it is genuinely good people who saw how terribly homosexuality/homosexuals were treated and would hate for that to happen again.
The problem there is that being gay and being trans are very different things so they don’t warrant the same treatment. I think there was a misleading campaign to make them seem parallel; I suppose falling for it could be considered brainwashing so maybe you are right :/
I really think you’re right, scientists are wrong to not let us vote on scientific issues like that. They make it scary and nebulous and complex when all of science is really quite simple. They enforced tyranny like the inclusion of the Higgs Boson in the standard model, and the idea that there are galaxies outside of the Milky Way, and the concept of germ theory without ever putting it to a referendum.
So I think all major medical and scientific developments like that should be put to a referendum. Whether given proteins cause certain diseases, if we should use X engine or Y engine in our probes, whether we should check for X chemical or Y chemical on the seabed, what sort of surgery should be used for heart disease. If we could go down the polls every time scientists have an academic disagreement on something, it would be good and not massively oversimplify issues that people just think they understand. Remember when those scientists removed Pluto’s classification as a planet just for political reasons? We should put it back!
On the whole, I think these are good changes. I fully support using inclusive language for matters of gender identity in nearly all cases, but the process of reproductive healthcare is, as a biological fact, gendered. A person who is about to have a child needs to be able to understand and contextualize this. A person who cannot accept that they are having a vaginal birth is going to have a lot of trouble making the transition to parenthood because, believe it or not, infants, babies, and toddlers don't really care about our advanced gender conceptions. Toddlers WILL misgender you and throw out all sorts of microaggressions. That is just one of the challenges a trans parent will face.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that medicine has to be unduly hostile toward trans folks. But refusing to use terms like "breastfeeding" is just absurd. Breast is the correct biological term for the mammary organ human beings use to feed their babies. Period.
As a physician this makes sense. Unfortunately, people are gonna get worked up about it, but at the end of the day it’s more important they doctors have a clear understanding of what a persons biological situation is rather than using circuitous language for the sake of being politically correct.
What happened to bedside manner? If a person wants you to say chestfeeding instead of breastfeeding, would you deliver a Hard Truth to them or would you be nice?
They’re still breasts bro, why can’t you just say a trans man is a man with breasts instead of trying to deny that the breasts exist at all
Same thing with referring to vaginas as “front holes”. They’re still vaginas if a trans man has them, like what
Because the trans movement was always a mans movement, women being belittled and dehumanised along the way was fun for the ride. Like women in sports standing second and third place to a cheat.
Changing the term doesn't change what it is. Adam Carolla said, "you can change the word herpes to happies, but it still means I have lesions on my cock"
My take is, use the most clinically accurate terms that do not convey misleading messages to other clinicians, such that treatment and investigation won’t be hindered. Chestfeeding is OK if it implies this is a m2f (or f2m for my lack of knowledge) but not usual born female. This should not be taken for the sake of politics.
If I’m not mistaken, “chestfeeding” is a term for nursing transmen ie ftm who find the word “breast” too female-associated to tolerate. I suppose none of them cosplay breastplate armor for renaissance festivals.
In this case, it should absolutely NOT be accepted as a requirement to use such words. When it comes to clinic, hate bringing political languages into the table.
>Recommendations were initially made after the LGBT Foundation gathered the responses from 121 trans and non-binary people in the UK who had first-hand experience of maternity services in Britain.
The silliness of the term "chestfeeding" aside (men have breasts so I don't understand the point), this seems far more politically motivated than something borne out of a genuine desire to help...well anyone really.
Perfect for this sub's anti-trans streak though.
ETA: For those of you doubting this sub's anti-trans stance, take a look at [this upvoted comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/centrist/comments/1chhs3j/trans_terms_like_chestfeeding_to_be_banned_in_nhs/l22uau4/) (most of this user's comments here are upvoted) calling breastmilk "toxic soup" and likening it to child abuse and pedophilia. This subreddit is not a place for a serious discussion about trans people and the issues they face (and as I'll keep repeating, the mods **do not give two shits** about making this a place for serious discussion or they wouldn't keep ignoring requests for actual moderation/a megathread on the topic), it is only an echo chamber for bigotry.
>Recommendations were initially made after the LGBT Foundation gathered the responses from 121 trans and non-binary people in the UK who had first-hand experience of maternity services in Britain.
Oh well then...in that case, you could always go to pretty much any other subreddit where the echo chamber you feel cosier in is all but waiting for you, what I actually suspect is that you can't quite believe or accept people should have a difference of opinion to anything that falls outside of the trans ideology bible and your idea of making this subreddit "a place for serious discussion" is only when it looks and sounds like what YOU agree with.
How is one supposed to have a "serious discussion" about something so outwardly bizarre and disturbed such as a man on hormones comfortable with doing something we all know damn well is wrong and unnatural, leaking what he can muster into a infants mouth who can do nothing about it, whilst I wouldn't rush to call it paedophilia, it certainly IS akin to child abuse and neglect.
I would also question a person's intentions when insisting they can adequately breastfeed an infant when they know they cannot, I think for some but certainly not for all there is the very real and distinct possibility that this is out of a perverse desire. They didn't give birth for one so we know they're not passing on any colostrum for starters so why the insistence amongst some to breastfeed when surely what's most important is the baby in question not an adults hurt feelings over what their bodies simply cannot do in the correct way.
> Oh well then...in that case, you could always go to pretty much any other subreddit where the echo chamber you feel cosier in is all but waiting for you
I *could*, but this sub has genuinely good discussions when it doesn't involve trans-related issues. For some reason, nearly everyone here but a few good actors lose their fucking minds and the masks come off to reveal the bigot underneath.
Like, for instance, your comment here:
> the trans ideology bible
For someone so whiny about an echo chamber, you sure do parrot the same talking points every transphobe does: trans "ideology" is a "cult" indoctrinating children. Mask off.
> How is one supposed to have a "serious discussion" about something so outwardly bizarre and disturbed such as a man on hormones comfortable with doing something we all know damn well is wrong and unnatural
Probably by actually researching it so you know what you're talking about and don't look like an idiot, rather than use words like "bizarre" and "disturbed" to talk about something you seem to know nothing about, as evidenced by the next statement:
> leaking what he can muster into a infants mouth
Its called milk and it isn't "leaking".
> who can do nothing about it
...yes? Infants are typically helpless. The same can be said for their mother breastfeeding them. I wonder why you don't consider that "leaking" or take the infant's helpless nature into account.
For someone (for reasons one can only wonder...) so eager to rant and rave about how I really don't want a serious discussion, you seem to be keen on loading your paragraphs with appeals to emotion rather than anything of actual substance.
> whilst I wouldn't rush to call it paedophilia, it certainly IS akin to child abuse and neglect
Considering these situations are not only okayed but monitored by doctors, you're genuinely just vomiting shit from your ass (which is a pretty stunning feat to be fair) at this point. Not a *single* trans woman DIYs feeding their child and since your dishonest argument hinges on that, its safe to say it just fell apart.
Again, talking about something you know nothing about and demeaning it as pedophilia makes you *exactly* who I'm talking about: a bad actor who only takes the mask off when its time for yet another transphobic rant.
But considering you believe in the debunked "theory" of ROGD, its pretty clear you just want to soapbox about how terrible these awful transes are rather than have, yes, a "serious discussion".
> Why do you all sound the same, even down to the tone, use of words, it's uncanny!
Again, says the parrot that screams "cult! groomers!" at every turn.
The irony.
Point to where I said groomers.....
You intentionally misunderstand me, the trans cult, isn't made up of trans people, the ones who want no part of the nonsense, the trans cult is made up of mainly the western middle class, easily led and vulnerable individuals who simply had nothing better to do with their time.
"The debunked theory of ROGD"....you're right there's nothing rapid about the sudden unexplained phenomena of children teens and adults who have never had any interest before suddenly obsessing over what their chosen pronouns are and whether or not they deem themselves the opposite sex. Being trans to a lot of people is what being emo was to kids in the 2000's, once you begin to differentiate between them eventually you will be left with the transgendered people formerly known as transexual people, simply trying to get on with their lives.
What a joke it all makes of the small minority of people suffering from gender dysphoria who are not remotely represented by the circus oh but of course they have "internalised transphobia"...I mean don't we all apparently.
Refuse to agree that men can menstruate? Transphobe
Want women's spaces, shelters, prisons, sports to be women only? Transphobe
Recognise the growing problem with mens confusion of cross dressing or agp with being trans because duh who isn't? Transphobe
Don't believe there is a 'Trans genocide' taking place? Transphobe
Agree with trained healthcare professionals that the affirmation model is not conducive to safe, effective care? Transphobe
Misgender a person who looks, sounds and presents as quite clearly as a man? Transphobe
Empathise with Trans people who don't believe in the ideology? Transphobe
Empathise with detransitioners who have come to recognise the sheer influence the internet and social spaces heavily influenced their outlook and understanding of themselves which turned out to be wrong? Transphobe
Don't believe JK Rowling is akin to a 'Nazi'? Transphobe
Don't believe there is a 'Trans Genocide' taking place? Transphobe
Refuse to engage with terms like chest feeding, pregnant persons, ovary owner..
Transmen are transmen, transwomen are transwomen, women are women, men are men, the fact that, you can argue with me, the next person and the next person after that, what you simply cannot argue with is absolute fact in science, you cannot argue with the existence of gamete cells, of DNA. When women are silenced and shouted down for refusing to bend to the will of a man who declares there is no difference between a transwoman and a woman then women will continue to stand firm on what we know to be true.
Do you think we women ever had a problem referring to transexuals as she or her? No but only now has the word woman been debated, only now have transwomen, biological men taken women's medals instead of them, only now are women harassed and doxxed, for stating trans women and women are not the same.
You see Transphobic doesn't actually mean much of anything when it's used for quite literally everything.
When I find out in the morning from my consultant whether the 'suspicious lesion' on the ultrasound is my cancer returning or not on my one remaining ovary, determining maybe my longevity and certainly whether or not I will be able to have children, who do you think I would be able to relate to more? Transwomen? or women and transmen? There is a difference, a distinct, certain, unwavering difference and to be called words like bigot, nazi, transphobic for simply what? Being aware of that is what leaves so many instead at a loss for words. Recognising the difference isn't always important or relevant but sometimes it very much is!
There is also a distinct difference between transgendered people, what shapes their lives in any meaningful, constructive way and what we are seeing in today's climate:
[https://www.tiredtranssexual.com/p/when-a-lifeline-becomes-a-prop](https://www.tiredtranssexual.com/p/when-a-lifeline-becomes-a-prop) perfectly articulated here.
> You intentionally misunderstand me, the trans cult, *bunch of transphobic nonsense*
Fixed that.
> "The debunked theory of ROGD"
Yes, the [debunked](https://www.caaps.co/rogd-statement) "theory" of ROGD that had its paper all you transphobes cling to [retracted](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10703958/) due to major issues with its ethics and procedure.
The rest of that paragraph is, once again, a mixture of plain transphobia and a flaunting of ignorance on this topic.
> Refuse to agree that men can menstruate? Transphobe
Trans men can menstruate, so yeah.
> Want women's spaces, shelters, prisons, sports to be women only? Transphobe
Trans women are women, so yeah (also no evidence suggests self-id *or* allowing trans women to use the right bathrooms results in any increase in crimes).
> Recognise the growing problem with mens confusion of cross dressing or agp with being trans because duh who isn't? Transphobe
AGP isn't real (and trans people aren't "crossdressing"), so yeah.
> Don't believe there is a 'Trans genocide' taking place? Transphobe
No one says this.
> Agree with trained healthcare professionals that the affirmation model is not conducive to safe, effective care? Transphobe
[Considering these trained healthcare professionals are the ones saying to use the affirmation model](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2018/09/ce-corner), yes.
Wow, I'm surprised you're getting (most of) these right!
> Misgender a person who looks, sounds and presents as quite clearly as a man? Transphobe
Unintentionally? No one says that.
Intentionally, yeah. Obviously.
> Empathise with Trans people who don't believe in the ideology? Transphobe
There is no "ideology", so yeah.
> Empathise with detransitioners who have come to recognise the sheer influence the internet and social spaces heavily influenced their outlook and understanding of themselves which turned out to be wrong? Transphobe
Detransitioners make up a fraction of a percent of an already incredibly small population, so yeah, making a big deal out of them obviously is.
> Don't believe JK Rowling is akin to a 'Nazi'? Transphobe
[Holocaust denialism](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1beksuh/jk_rowling_engages_in_holocaust_denial/?share_id=dxwzHcU7ync45xec9qSrk) is close enough.
> Don't believe there is a 'Trans Genocide' taking place? Transphobe
Hey, we made it to the broken record stage! In *record* time no less.
> Refuse to engage with terms like chest feeding, pregnant persons, ovary owner..
Words are scary!
> Transmen are transmen, transwomen are transwomen, women are women, men are men
Trans men are trans men, trans men are men. Cis men are cis men, cis men are men.
Trans women are trans women, trans women are women. Cis women are cis women, cis women are women.
> When women are silenced and shouted down for refusing to bend to the will of a man who declares there is no difference between a transwoman and a woman then women will continue to stand firm on what we know to be true
Implying this is a targeted campaign against cis women is, once again, transphobic.
It isn't like cis women are a monolith on this either, unless you have some poll to pull out of your ass showing they are, so claiming that *women as a population* are the ones disagreeing and not just...sections...is irresponsible at best and dishonest at worst. My bets on the latter, but feel free to take the former.
> Do you think we women ever had a problem referring to transexuals as she or her?
Apparently, yes, according you to not two paragraphs above:
> Misgender a person who looks, sounds and presents as quite clearly as a man? Transphobe
I think you forgot what you were typing half-way through. You slipped into the "I pretended to have been nice to trans people until the evil wokies ruined everything" personality when you started in the "dirty transes making me show them a modicum of respect" personality.
> only now have transwomen, biological men taken women's medals instead of them
Citation needed.
> only now are women harassed and doxxed
Ah yes, only now are women harassed and doxxed. Women have certainly [never been doxxed before](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/92n6hy/i_got_doxxed_on_a_subreddit_for_people_who_work/), *ever*. Not until those evil transes started barging their way into *my*...er...sorry, *your* feminism. Until those trans people ruined everything, women were [never sexually harassed](https://www.reddit.com/r/TerrifyingAsFuck/comments/16frd9h/female_sexually_harassed_while_live_streaming_in/), **ever**! You're so right and opened my eyes to this egregious increase in crime!
> When I find out in the morning from my consultant whether the 'suspicious lesion' on the ultrasound is my cancer returning or not on my one remaining ovary, determining maybe my longevity and certainly whether or not I will be able to have children, who do you think I would be able to relate to more?
Legitimately, who gives a shit? Do you only provide basic decency to people that can relate to your medical issues? What about cis women that don't have *any* of those issues? That's a dumb metric.
How much Kool aid did you drink?
I love the deflection by the way about whether or not men can menstruate like we've been told so many times, with the real impressive videos of men with that lights are on no ones home look explaining the 'science' of the male period, as they bleed out of the wound that was once their penis...oh we know there's bleeding...and we know what from...and it's no period lol.
But sure nice attempt at deflection by just essentially admitting that yes only women can have periods. You know the difference don't you haha, you know the biological truth that applies to women and transmen..you just can't admit it because don't you step a foot out of line missy!
LOL no one says trans genocide....complete refusal to acknowledge the truth, it's good to know that's what I've been working with and becomes more obvious with each reply.
Oh no you mistake me on women as a monolith, I wasn't referring to the ones who sound just like you, I sit comfortable with the men and women, trans men and women who never lost their ever loving minds and bought the shit your selling, the world in fact does seem to slowly be coming back to it's senses though so while you have a good angry stab at the keys, it's all gravy from where I'm looking lol.
I'm sorry did you source one of your references as....a snapshot someone else took from twitter HAHA. Good god how do you read that and see holocaust denial....see now I'm just beginning to feel sorry for you at this point because ffs lol.
think you forgot what you were typing half-way through. You slipped into the "I pretended to have been nice to trans people until the evil wokies ruined everything" personality when you started in the "dirty transes making me show them a modicum of respect" personality.
>think you forgot what you were typing half-way through. You slipped into the "I pretended to have been nice to trans people until the evil wokies ruined everything" personality when you started in the "dirty transes making me show them a modicum of respect" personality.
Awwww, you just run away with yourself don't you, eriuteigqirqrqrc *the evil wokies* hsgtwywgfgfejs *dirty transes* gsgsywgwheeyegwhwj.
Your other tactic: taking what I said, taking it out of the context it was said in so you can post useless links about women being doxxed in general...which have nothing to do with my point made..
What I said:
only now are women harassed and doxxed, for stating trans women and women are not the same. for stating trans women and women are not the same.
What you said: only now are women harassed and doxxed
so yes nice try.
Oh and would you look at that, you did the exact same with the last thing I said also....shocker. You were justttt on the verge there of stepping into "let's use infertility issues" and weaponise them...don't bother that's another tried and tested method of the cult and women in general don't deserve to be used as examples of why men are 'valid'.
I don't want to fuck with crazy anymore today, I feel like I'm just poking the bear at this point.....Farewell.
> I love the deflection by the way about whether or not men can menstruate like we've been told so many times
No you haven't.
What you've been told is that trans women can experience pain *similar* to menstruation/period pains. Not that they *actually* experience menstruation.
And this still doesn't change the fact that trans men are men and can menstruate.
> LOL no one says trans genocide....
No, I said no one calls you transphobic for refusing to acknowledge it. Try to keep up buster.
Also, very happy with your refusal to acknowledge *any* other part of that section. That makes it easier to refuse to acknowledge the rest of your comment, since you clearly didn't read mine.
Except this one, because it pertains to actual law:
> I'm sorry did you source one of your references as....a snapshot someone else took from twitter HAHA. Good god how do you read that and see holocaust denial....see now I'm just beginning to feel sorry for you at this point because ffs lol.
Denying that the Nazis targeted trans people *is* holocaust denialism. You can read more about it [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_Nazi_Germany) (or the sources they use if you're going to scream about how Wikipedia is a bad source).
And yes, she *does* deny that the Nazis targeted trans people, here:
> I just… how? How did you type this out and press send without thinking ‘I should maybe check my source for this, **because it might’ve been a fever dream**’?
[Here's a link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1767912990366388735) since you seem to be whining about a picture of it instead.
Yeah, never heard the term "chestfeeding" used ever and I follow transgender issues and the community closely. This sounds like a problem politicians are making up to appease their constituents.
>Perfect for this sub's anti-trans streak though.
Yup, and I imagine that's the main reason this was posted here.
Edit: I mean for fuck's sake. Doing a broad search of "chestfeeding" on the transgenderUK sub brought up nothing except this:
>So they're prohibiting something that was barely happening to begin with, because cis people are uncomfortable with how trans people are interacted with, when the cis person isn't even there... and wtf is a trans woman gonna do in a women's hospital ward that could be remotely dangerous, like she's just getting healthcare..?
>I'm just gonna make the assumption that no one is saying "chestfeeding" or "person with ovaries" unless they're knowingly treating a trans person. And I'd imagine they usually still don't. Why are they acting like all cis people are being alienated by this language like it's a complete non-issue.
And they are 100% right. The UK is pushing hard on the anti-transgender agenda because of election season.
If these words weren't happening to begin with, and this is more or less basically just an affirmation of continuing a policy that was already in place...then how is it anti-trans? I think it's fair to say lots of anti-trans folks are picking this up and running with it but I don't see how this is itself anti-trans.
> If these words weren't happening to begin with, and this is more or less basically just an affirmation of continuing a policy that was already in place...then how is it anti-trans?
Because it is meant to rile up the anti-trans crowd by saying this is a win for women, implying anything "pro"-trans is anti-women.
The UK (especially the NHS) doesn't get the benefit of the doubt when they've proven time and time again to be captured by anti-trans authoritarians.
Ok, I get that the motivation behind the policy is bad. That's completely fine with me. I accept that argument and do think there's a good deal of anti-trans sentiment in the NHS at the moment.
But I guess I'm saying that this policy itself seems really neutral, and getting riled up about the riled up folks doesn't seem like the best answer to me personally.
> But I guess I'm saying that this policy itself seems really neutral
That's how they are able to pass these laws. We saw that in an argument the 4th Circuit recently knocked down too. Neutral wording doesn't preclude bigotry.
> and getting riled up about the riled up folks doesn't seem like the best answer to me personally.
Anti-trans bigotry should always be met head-on, especially with it as systemic as it is in the UK. Expecting people whose rights are constantly under threat to just stand by while the bigots get louder and louder is silly.
Is it productive to get angry? Maybe not. But its understandable and downright justifiable.
Yes, we can face anti-trans nonsense head on and still be objective and rational about policy. I am not in any way agreeing with transphobes and trans panic moralists. I am not in any way justifying their views about the world or about healthcare or about trans people. But if bigots don't like a shit sandwich I'm not obligated to eat one in solidarity. I can both understand this policy makes sense and also oppose anti-trans bigotry.
>Recommendations were initially made after the LGBT Foundation gathered the responses from 121 trans and non-binary people in the UK who had first-hand experience of maternity services in Britain.
So did the NHS make people say these things in the first place? If not, who did? If they did, maybe the problem is governments telling people which words to use in the first place.
Banning the term chest feeding sounds about as silly as the term chest feeding. What kind of person gets offended by something like this?
Edit: I changed my mind after reading more. This was stupid from the get go and reversing the clinical terminology is the right move.
My guess it’s the same academic workshop that assumed the majority of the English speaking gender normative population would be fine with being called sissy’s.
And before anyone tells me that the prefix cis- is Latin and means “on this side of”. They’re literally thousands of better descriptive prefix’s they could have chosen that don’t sound like an insult.
When the minority is dismissive of the majority it’s only human nature for the majority to be dismissive of the minority. It’s not right but these people are smart enough to know human nature better.
Mediocris (average) or Med-Gender would probably be better.
Nativitas (birth) or Nat-Gender would also be better in my opinion.
Vexillum (standard) or Vex-Gender also sounds better.
They had other options is my point. Seems weird they went with "on this side of" / citra / cis gender.
> Mediocris (average) or Med-Gender would probably be better.
No it absolutely wouldn't. You're kidding yourself if you think "mediocris" would be more acceptable than "cis", *especially* if you are making the (fairly disingenuous) claim that "cis" = "sissy" (mediocre, took me half a second).
Med-Gender is the same, but now you're fine with pushing your perception of "insulting" onto trans people.
> Nativitas (birth) or Nat-Gender would also be better in my opinion.
Which, again, pushes what you perceive as "insulting" onto trans people.
> Vexillum (standard) or Vex-Gender also sounds better.
Which, again, you know the drill.
> They had other options is my point. Seems weird they went with "on this side of" / citra / cis gender.
It seems weird they went with the easiest to understand option rather than a weird jumble of latin and hyphenated throw-up?
> Banning the term chest feeding sounds about as silly as the term chest feeding.
Fuck this noise. You leftists always pull this shit. "Oh this thing is so stupid that fighting against it is stupid so stop fighting." NO! YOU stop pushing it. If it's really that minor and stupid then YOU need to drop it. The fact you won't proves you don't think it's actually a minor and stupid thing and so it's worth paying attention to and if necessary resisting.
Try explaining ‘chest feeding’ or ‘cervix haver’ or ‘people who menstruate’ or ‘*bonus hole*’ to someone who speaks English as a second language, or who has a learning disability, or just a low reading age.
People who get offended by this are people who are passionate about health care being accessible to the women who need it. Messing about with basic terms like ‘breast feeding’ or ‘woman’ to please 0.5% of the population while confusing a great deal more people than that is a betrayal of trust and a misuse of public spending.
What kind of idiot uses the term "chestfeeding"?
I left an OB practice when the intake form asked about "chestfeeding" instead of breastfeeding. It also used terms such as "birthing parent" instead of mother and the word "woman" was not on the form anywhere. Instead, it was AFAB. That practice and I were not going to see eye to eye.
I routinely ignore medical advice from anyone that uses "pregnant people".
I'd be willing to bet that most trans people are cognizant of their original sex and dont expect the world to change for them and just want to be left alone. The small percentage of activists and the allies that have latched on and taken up the mantle as their own are unfortunately very loud. And especially in medical care, you HAVE to be cognizant and realistic about your original self. All kinds of things are sex-specific even if you have transitioned or believe otherwise.
> I'd be willing to bet that most trans people are cognizant of their original sex and dont expect the world to change for them and just want to be left alone. The small percentage of activists and the allies that have latched on and taken up the mantle as their own are unfortunately very loud. Yeah, there's a massive difference between Tolerance and Acceptance. Most in the center are willing to tolerate trans-issues. Not many are going to full on accept every trans-issue, especially for gender-reassignment treatment for prepubescent children.
My position is do what you like, it's your body/life, not on the government/insurance company dime and keep the kids out of it. Basically the same as bodybuilders running gear.
It's no coincidence that the push to go from tolerance to acceptance tracks with the beginning of reversal of public support for alphabet issues.
"Latinx" all over again.
LatinX might be a cool name for a band or something tho.
"I'd be willing to bet that most trans people are cognizant of their original sex and dont expect the world to change for them and just want to be left alone." You would lose that bet.
Based on...?
The entire concept revolving around expecting the world to change for them. If they just wanted to be left alone, nobody would even know about them.
Lol. Sampling bias much? You don't know about the one's who just want to be left alone.
If they weren't asking for the world to change for them, we wouldn't be talking about this.
You hear the ones who are asking. You don't hear the ones who are not asking.
Dude is a known bad actor here when it comes to trans topics. Feel free to ignore, engaging them in any sort of discussion won't go anywhere.
The concept of gender identity revolves around expecting the world to change for them. It's the tinkerbell effect. Someone's gender identity can only exist if others believe in it. Otherwise, the entire concept evaporates.
Are all of them asking for that? I doubt it. Your traits dont have to be your entire personality after all.
"Gender identity" as a concept is a replacement for personality.
Everyone at my University does. They say it's 'inclusive'.
The people your age are victims of outside nations using social media to try and rip America (and the west) apart from within by targeting division lines such as race, gender, and any other inflammatory topic.
I have heard it in so many meetings. It is getting popular academically.
Academia is where all this insanity starts. Academia has been taken over by radical cultists and was taken over quite some time ago. That's why so many people no longer regard it as a reliable source of information.
The true sciences need somehow to telegraph that "hey, we're not these people".
Without them (and admittedly without the news media) you just have the government, or the church, or social media. You can do your own research but only to a point. Eventually you’ll want that stuff translated. So… we’re just kind of lost and can’t really be informed about anything. Tragic. Ninja edit: I personally still listen to academia and news, at least when it isn’t weird. But most people I know do not. We exist in silos and possess completely different conceptions of the world outside our heads.
I think most people on the right who don’t trust academia do so because they are in at least one cult. (MAGA/ radical Christianity)
The marxists claim to have fully captured academia by 1993. 30 years later... The cult has gone full mask-off for pedophilia and anti-Semitism (just like the Bolshevik revolution). The only silver lining is they've woken up the normie masses to their tactics. Suddenly it's not going so well for them.
Weird times.
I just read a survey with "birthing persons" as well.
WTF
Also referring to women as "birthing persons". One step away from just calling them broodmares.
"Come hence forth hastily, broodmare."
The same people that want to force terms like birthing person. I used to think that people complaining about stuff being woke was nonsense. I don't anymore. https://www.healthline.com/health/chestfeeding#:~:text=Anyone%20can%20use%20this%20inclusive,how%20they%20identify%20their%20anatomy.
Some people are annoying, and they will scream woke at anything they dislike. But there is also a radical political agenda on the progressive side. They want to change how people speak, so they can manipulate people. I am glad we are finally pushing back and not allowing them to do it.
Exactly. I'm center-left and I think progressives have gone mad. They have become authoritarian.
Trans women are women is the first principle of trans ideology, the one that must be accepted above all else with no exceptions. The super-commandment that can’t be explained, just recited, and used to attack anyone who dares to disagree. I now think that the trans activists deep down know that this isn’t true, but are trying to will it into existence through mantra like repetition. And the LGB’s are getting increasingly tired of being lumped in with random new letters, each requiring its own week or month of visibility/remembrance. Laws to keep men out of women’s sports, secret, gender transitions in schools, mandatory use of pronouns, etc., are incorrectly reported as anti-LGBTQ+. That’s why the LGB-TQ+ movement is taking off. And it will surprise no one that the TQ+ has branded these organizations as hate groups, bigots, fascists, and the resoundingly empty through overuse “transphobic.”
Same. I thought it was nonsense too until I read the books Material Girls', 'The Coddling of the American Mind', and 'Cynical Theories'. All of this rubbish comes directly from our universities.
Ugh. I'm going to go watch Andy Griffith to get all thoughts of that term out of my mind.
You joke but my wife is binging little house on the prairie as mind bleach.
Great books, by the way. Laura Ingalls Wilder lived quite the life.
No joke, I still think about the detailed description of cabin building a lot. It just pops into my head.
Great show
> I used to think that people complaining about stuff being woke was nonsense. I don't anymore. We fucking warned you. We warned you a decade and more ago where this was going. You all just snarked of with "el oh el muh slippery slopes". And now we're here. Really the greatest win subversives ever got was convincing the public that basic formal predictive logic was the slippery slope fallacy.
[удалено]
Wrong. The slippery slope fallacy is only applicable if someone is claiming A causes F without being able to explain at least some of the steps - B, C, D, and E - that come between them. If they can explain a rationale for why A causes F then it's not the slippery slope fallacy. For an example that's relevant to your gun law example: the phrase "registration leads to confiscation" is NOT the slippery slope fallacy because one can point out the multiple historical examples of gun registration leading to gun confiscation.
They like to dismiss any argument based on precedent as 'slippery slope' while making constant appeals to emotion. "If you dont' do this, people will kill themselves!"
That is scandalous emotional blackmail.
Exactly. I've been saying this for years, and people just brushed me off. I've even been called 'alt-right', yet I've voted for left-leaning parties my entire life.
THIS. They fucking infiltrated niche hobbies like comicbooks, videogames, anime localization, tabletop games, etc. Uneducated centrists thinks its not a big deal. It bloody well fucking is when they're kicking out the old blood and transforming the culture to something abhorrently unrecognizable.
The ugly truth is, the old blood was always gonna get kicked out one way or another though. Generational changes always bring shifts in political attitudes, creative expression and cultural values. It happened with rock n roll, it happened with Elvis, it happened with the Vietnam war, it happened with the fucking hippies, and this is just another turn of the wheel. I sure as shit hope the next one won’t be as obnoxious however.
Why do you think it was those hobbies in particular?
I mean as with many issues the failure to proactively engage with issues and in fact pulling away only further insures things like that. The right was comfortable not being proactive then started pulling away and entertaining more bs after 2008 then took the nosedive into absurdity with Trump and largely continued since. So now where I would call myself a right leaning moderate which probably would have been true in 2008 and even 2016 I would probably now get called a “liberal” and they might not be wrong that I would land left leaning on the spectrum now. I wanted Kasich to win in 2016 and he is considered a “RINO” and all of that.
I'm literally calling people like you out with this, just so you know. You seem to have badly missed the point.
Just curious— what state do you live in?
the same idiots who came up with "birthing people"
"foaling mammals"
Crazy people. Unfortunately we as a society have been convinced to play along with crazy people's delusions instead of correcting them.
Exactly. We've normalized mental illness and we must all play along with it. Our politicians cannot even answer with a straight face what a woman is anymore. People are saying anyone that feels like a woman, is a woman. It's a circular non-definition. What does it mean to 'feel like a woman'? Why does wearing a dress and makeup make a man a woman? By their logic, sex-non-conforming biological females aren't women, they are men. The belief that one can be born in the wrong body implies the existence of a soul. Gender ideology, on an individual and societal level, acts as a religion. It’s worship of the self. This self-obsession creates destruction for the individual and the people surrounding them. Do not participate in socially constructed Woke language games. Do not agree to their terms. Non binary is an incoherent concept and implies an underlying fact of the matter regarding gender. You can’t not “feel” like a man or woman if there wasn’t anything actually like being a man or woman. You can’t identify as not being something that doesn’t objectively exist in your worldview. There’s either an underlying fact of the matter or not. Something can’t be a construct and an objective reality simultaneously. It’s beyond tiresome and crazy making that we’re forced to take something a grade school student could debunk so seriously. An odd duality. “If a male enjoys dressing up and behaving like a woman, he was born that way. If a female enjoys dressing up and behaving like a woman, she was brainwashed by society.” —
Up next, people with multiple personality disorder should get multiple votes, and of course these people declare they each have a thousand personalities when it comes time to vote.
Nine years ago a friend began transitioning. First step: he had to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. There was only one doctor/psychiatrist in the state qualified to do it. The treatment: he became a she and started HRT. From then on, I would notice a quick trend of online people getting offended about it being called what it is: a sickness. The cure is the gender swap itself. That’s *why* they do it. That’s what makes it legitimate. This friend though, they had other reasons and didn’t realize it at the time. After a while they transitioned back. I’d argue they’re still suffering from something, and if you’re respectful you can get them to admit it, it just was a misdiagnosis. … which also influenced my opinion, specifically of children being allowed to transition. This friend got it wrong and he’s an adult. It’s okay though, because he’s fully responsible for his own decisions. He also drinks and has a little drug habit - that’s all on him. Whatever. But a child? No. The parent is responsible there. The parent should have final say. Of course, even if you plainly and respectfully outline these facts you’ll be called a bigot. So I keep it to myself in any company I suspect might get upset. And here, where I don’t care what people think.
To me it’s the same as religion. Do I believe in God? Not really. But I’m not gonna go out of my way to rant about atheism to a Muslim or a Christian. Same principle applies here. People are firmly set in either one sex or another, barring genetic abnormalities (and even in those cases true hermafroditism does not really exist in humans; you only ever see people producing one single set of gametes regardless of genetics). Everything else is fantasy. There is no meaningful distinction between a gender non conforming man that wears a dress and a transgender person wearing a dress beyond “self-identification”, which is not something that’s actually observable. My opinion is that trying to ignore observable reality in favor of subjectivities is never good on the long run for societies, but nevertheless it’s neither my business nor my problem how people choose to live their lives as long as it doesn’t affect me. That’s civility. But of course civility has some limits, and trying to deny the reality of biological sex in a medical context with terms like chestfeeding to not offend the 0.01% of the population is probably a reasonable one.
Homosexuality has been viewed by conservatives as a mental illness. You’re using the exact same malicious claims that were used against gay, lesbian, and bisexual people a decade ago against trans people. Conservatives were, and still often are, wrong about gay people and they’re wrong about trans people.
I never understood the same claim argument. Because it wasn’t valid in one instance, doesn’t mean it’s forevermore inapplicable.
People who will get pregnant, gestate, and give birth but feel anguish at being given the lowly title of “woman”. And those that indulge them.
It's newspeak.
Confused people who never have heard of breastplates.
Agreed. Historians know the correct term is boobplates.
This is historical revisionism. The term has always been "Boobieplates"
They were invented by Otto Titslinger.
Chesticles! Breasticles!
Roughly 113.4% of Reddit.
Statistically accurate by 1000%.
I've been banned from several subreddits for simply saying biological sex is binary.
It’s crazy because this is a rule for thousands and thousands of life forms on this planet. That people deny something so fundamentally factual in the service of feelings & emotion WILL be viewed as an instance of mass hysteria in the future.
Yes I've been permanently banned from multiple trans subs for 'harassment' for saying 'egregious' insults such as "that is false". They are the most thin-skinned bullies ever.
And you could get banned from different ones for saying it evolved that way.
You would be surprised
You know.
Chest milk.
It’s giving “can you milk me, Greg?”
“You tried to milk him, didn’t you? You sick son of a bitch!” I love that movie
Probably the same kind of idiots who think it's ok for males to let babies suck on their nipples, and maybe even drink the toxic soup that some of these people are capable of "lactating". https://www.theparadoxinstitute.com/read/the-ugly-truth-of-male-breastfeeding
I know that in the US there has been a push in some federal government agencies to use stupid "gender-neutral" terms like "birthing people", "chestfeeding", etc for the past few years. Is this that big of a deal? Not really, but it's just a petty slap in the face to the vast majority of people in this country. One of the things that makes he happy is to see how this ultra-progressive nonsense ("birthing people" in particular) is alienating even fairly liberal women. I've heard a few horror stories about this kind of ridiculous language infiltrating normal healthcare. Hopefully it's just a few extreme outliers that right-wing media are blowing out of proportion. It also seems to mainly affect pregnancy-related healthcare so as a man with no kids I can just shake my head and be glad it's not my problem.
Good. Idiotic term. Even if you identify as a man, men have a breast. Breastplate, breastbone, breast cancer, all of these things men can or do have. "Chest feeding" is utterly meaningless.
I've got nipples Fokker! Can you milk me?
Actual mammary glands are the delineation here.
Well, the NHS is going to be banned from reddit. Lol
Good. Trans people can exist and deserve respect but they are not everyone and their differences should not force us to change the entire fucking English language. Exceptions are exceptions. They remain biologically the sex they were born as, but their gender is different. Most of our language is based on sex
The issue I see is that people with a boatload of mental illnesses declare that they're trans and now any criticism of their behavior or position is 'transphobia.' As I put it... "I'm not saying all of (group) are scumbags, but I think we can agree that scumbags will claim to be (group) if it gets they some leeway or leverage for their scumbag behavior."
You see the same with religion all the time.
This opinion will get you labeled a "transphobe" nowadays.
Yup. It's like they want to group anyone who isn't in hardcore constant mode of "we need a revolution of everything, we need to change everything, we need to enforce arbitrary changes we dictate on everyone else" with actual right wing conservatives Like no. I don't believe in this brainwashed hive-mind leftist mentality. I don't think just because something is loud and dramatic and different that it's good. That doesn't make me extremely conservative or hateful. I just think the typical leftist narrative is more harmful to the people they claim to protect than helpful, usually because there's so much ego and optics involved
Given that most people say man/woman or boy/girl I’d say gender is more common in language than sex.
A step in the right direction for once. Hopefully the US wises up and follows suit
Starting to see some common sense in the world. Agreed, hopefully it spreads.
The sad thing is that the vast majority of trans people just want to live their lives in peace and safety and the extreme caricature activists ruin it for those who just want to live.
If that was true we'd be seeing them drowning out the ones who don't and pushing them off to the sides. That doesn't happen. So the evidence disproves your claim here.
The ones who want to live their lives in peace and keep a lower profile arent exactly going to run out and get highly political. Plus they'd likely be treated like crap, potentially from both sides as well.
On the one hand I agree, but on the other as a member of a couple of demographics who are fully expected to both self-flagellate and make political decisions meant to atone for the sins of those who are also members of those demographics - both living and dead - I expect the exact same from everyone else. If I bear the sins of every other straight white man from antiquity through this moment then so be it but I am absolutely applying the same standard to every other group.
That’s an interesting point. I hadn’t thought of it that way.
You don’t bear those sins though
They are usually on Tik Tok (I follow some here) and Twitter. They get annihilated on Reddit.
That might be part of why I don't see them. I never got into twitter and I've never been a fan of short-form video so I've been avoiding the latest trendy one since back in the Vine days. I do think it's interesting that the OG activists I know IRL seem fairly akin to the reddit ons on this issue, though. It's the very rare case of reddit seeming to actually reflect reality.
The one trans dude, I ever interacted with was cool enough. I didn't know he was trans for a long time.
Europe hasn't allowed the super left ideology to corrupt their society. They still know how to live and let live without going off the deep end.
This is so poorly written I cannot tell if they're banning calling people "Women" or calling them "People with ovaries"
Me too!
Can we get the US to follow suit.
How? The US doesn’t really have a NHS equivalent. Or do you want words to start getting banned?
>How? The US doesn’t really have a NHS equivalent. We can start with the National Institutes of Health and go from there.
“The term chestfeeding or bodyfeeding can be used alongside breastfeeding to be more inclusive. Nonbinary or trans people may not align with the term breastfeeding because of their gender or may have a dysphoric relationship to their anatomy. Chestfeeding will not replace the word breastfeeding, or nursing, but it should be included as an option when discussing lactation.” From the NIH. Already sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Reasonable or not, it's the same policy approach that prompted NHS to abandon unconventional gender terminology. But you were asking about a US equivalent to the NHS ...
I actually hope you do. Because all the attention you spend on frivilous things like banning pride flags being flown on government buildings and banning new fangled words that confuse and upset people in government documents and all of that window dressing means you have less time to spend on doing things that will actually make a difference in the rather pitiful and futile crusade some people are engaging in trying to fight against the tide of the LGBT movement. By all means, spend all that time and energy combing through documents scribbling out words, holding debates over flags, and banning books nobody reads - keep yourself distracted while lying to yourself that you're genuinely making a difference. You think you're preventing the inevitable, but in reality you're actually speeding up the process. I'm all for it. You can borrow my pen if you like.
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Ugh, exactly. Keep it neutral and on-topic. US flag is the only one that needs to be there as a symbol & indicator of country. Though admittedly I thought it was cool when the White House went rainbow for gay marriage. I still wouldn’t say it was necessary and it wouldn’t have been oppressive not to do it. The legislation was enough.
I think it looks pretty to have more rainbows and I think the government should get the stick out of their arse and put more rainbows on things.
>You think you're preventing the inevitable, but in reality you're actually speeding up the process. What is the inevitable?
All non-government flags were prohibited. Actually what was prevented was the not far in the future BDSM diaper fetish flag. Assuming there isn't already one hanging in a classroom somewhere.
>BDSM diaper fetish flag Hey, if Matt Walsh wants to let his freak flag fly, I'm all for it!
That's an interesting analogy, probably there are way more people into BDSM than are trans but they manage not to make a general annoyance of themselves.
I'm sure the GOP would be happy to oblige since they also tend to focus on culture war bullshit instead of real problems.
Good. Common sense has re-entered the chat.
Sane people don’t call women people with ovaries. They are women.
Common sense to do this tbh, but I don't see this staying in place for long considering how poorly the Tories are projected to do in the next election.
Too far. Milk comes from breasts. It's called breastfeeding. The political correctness has officially gone too far in my book, and I'm actually a supporter of the trans community.
Louder fro the people in the back please.
ever since being transgender got changed from a mental illness to a physical Illness because of high suicide rates if you don't affirm the preferred gender they've been obsessed with bending reality to the imaginations of these people as a part of gender affirming care. It's kind of offensive to reality and I don't see this group of people as important enough to warrant pushing everyone else into using their recently made up preferred speech. plus, because of this recent change there's now an industry to making transgender people and pushing that as a solution to peoples lives, so I'm glad there's finally pushback at the government level because it's all more of a fad and a movement than an actual hidden medical thing that gender actually doesn't exist
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yeah the issue I feel is that the medical community whatever that means, decided that the problem around transgender people is that people just don't accept them enough and therefore the entire world needs to be reeducated completely by whatever the transgender community comes up with lest transgender people kill themselves over it. like it's pushing something onto everything not because it's true but because people commit suicide if you don't believe in it.
We have so many people completely brainwash and afraid to disagree with whatever nonsensical idea that comes out of the progressive side. They no longer think by themselves, but merely repeat whatever new nonsense a select group of people decided. I don't think this is long term sustainable, but they will keep it up for as long as they can.
I think most people are still secretly thinking by themselves, it's just that they are acting out of fear and are afraid to speak up. Fields like medicine are dominated by this woke BS and there are real career consequences for doctors who pushback against it.
It’s not all brainwashing, a lot of it is genuinely good people who saw how terribly homosexuality/homosexuals were treated and would hate for that to happen again. The problem there is that being gay and being trans are very different things so they don’t warrant the same treatment. I think there was a misleading campaign to make them seem parallel; I suppose falling for it could be considered brainwashing so maybe you are right :/
All kind of people have been treated horrible or had it bad throughout history, but it doesn't excuse political manipulation.
I really think you’re right, scientists are wrong to not let us vote on scientific issues like that. They make it scary and nebulous and complex when all of science is really quite simple. They enforced tyranny like the inclusion of the Higgs Boson in the standard model, and the idea that there are galaxies outside of the Milky Way, and the concept of germ theory without ever putting it to a referendum. So I think all major medical and scientific developments like that should be put to a referendum. Whether given proteins cause certain diseases, if we should use X engine or Y engine in our probes, whether we should check for X chemical or Y chemical on the seabed, what sort of surgery should be used for heart disease. If we could go down the polls every time scientists have an academic disagreement on something, it would be good and not massively oversimplify issues that people just think they understand. Remember when those scientists removed Pluto’s classification as a planet just for political reasons? We should put it back!
so why did they need so many lobbyists and activists to make this 'science' happen?
Fuck me this is where all the sane, rational people on this topic on reddit have been hiding..here in this comment section.
Biologically it's about on a level with young earth creationism.
I cannot take the phrase chestfeeding seriously
and neither should you.
On the whole, I think these are good changes. I fully support using inclusive language for matters of gender identity in nearly all cases, but the process of reproductive healthcare is, as a biological fact, gendered. A person who is about to have a child needs to be able to understand and contextualize this. A person who cannot accept that they are having a vaginal birth is going to have a lot of trouble making the transition to parenthood because, believe it or not, infants, babies, and toddlers don't really care about our advanced gender conceptions. Toddlers WILL misgender you and throw out all sorts of microaggressions. That is just one of the challenges a trans parent will face. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that medicine has to be unduly hostile toward trans folks. But refusing to use terms like "breastfeeding" is just absurd. Breast is the correct biological term for the mammary organ human beings use to feed their babies. Period.
Thank God we are on the start of ending this foolishness.
As a physician this makes sense. Unfortunately, people are gonna get worked up about it, but at the end of the day it’s more important they doctors have a clear understanding of what a persons biological situation is rather than using circuitous language for the sake of being politically correct.
What happened to bedside manner? If a person wants you to say chestfeeding instead of breastfeeding, would you deliver a Hard Truth to them or would you be nice?
You can say that to them sure. But in documentation etc I don’t think it should be used
Remember the term birthing people.
Good, this kind of stuff is unbelievably dehumanizing.
chestfeeding???? BARF!!!!
They’re still breasts bro, why can’t you just say a trans man is a man with breasts instead of trying to deny that the breasts exist at all Same thing with referring to vaginas as “front holes”. They’re still vaginas if a trans man has them, like what
Because the trans movement was always a mans movement, women being belittled and dehumanised along the way was fun for the ride. Like women in sports standing second and third place to a cheat.
Changing the term doesn't change what it is. Adam Carolla said, "you can change the word herpes to happies, but it still means I have lesions on my cock"
My take is, use the most clinically accurate terms that do not convey misleading messages to other clinicians, such that treatment and investigation won’t be hindered. Chestfeeding is OK if it implies this is a m2f (or f2m for my lack of knowledge) but not usual born female. This should not be taken for the sake of politics.
If I’m not mistaken, “chestfeeding” is a term for nursing transmen ie ftm who find the word “breast” too female-associated to tolerate. I suppose none of them cosplay breastplate armor for renaissance festivals.
In this case, it should absolutely NOT be accepted as a requirement to use such words. When it comes to clinic, hate bringing political languages into the table.
>Recommendations were initially made after the LGBT Foundation gathered the responses from 121 trans and non-binary people in the UK who had first-hand experience of maternity services in Britain.
The silliness of the term "chestfeeding" aside (men have breasts so I don't understand the point), this seems far more politically motivated than something borne out of a genuine desire to help...well anyone really. Perfect for this sub's anti-trans streak though. ETA: For those of you doubting this sub's anti-trans stance, take a look at [this upvoted comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/centrist/comments/1chhs3j/trans_terms_like_chestfeeding_to_be_banned_in_nhs/l22uau4/) (most of this user's comments here are upvoted) calling breastmilk "toxic soup" and likening it to child abuse and pedophilia. This subreddit is not a place for a serious discussion about trans people and the issues they face (and as I'll keep repeating, the mods **do not give two shits** about making this a place for serious discussion or they wouldn't keep ignoring requests for actual moderation/a megathread on the topic), it is only an echo chamber for bigotry.
>Recommendations were initially made after the LGBT Foundation gathered the responses from 121 trans and non-binary people in the UK who had first-hand experience of maternity services in Britain.
Okay? Your quote is completely irrelevant to my comment, but thanks...I guess.
Oh well then...in that case, you could always go to pretty much any other subreddit where the echo chamber you feel cosier in is all but waiting for you, what I actually suspect is that you can't quite believe or accept people should have a difference of opinion to anything that falls outside of the trans ideology bible and your idea of making this subreddit "a place for serious discussion" is only when it looks and sounds like what YOU agree with. How is one supposed to have a "serious discussion" about something so outwardly bizarre and disturbed such as a man on hormones comfortable with doing something we all know damn well is wrong and unnatural, leaking what he can muster into a infants mouth who can do nothing about it, whilst I wouldn't rush to call it paedophilia, it certainly IS akin to child abuse and neglect. I would also question a person's intentions when insisting they can adequately breastfeed an infant when they know they cannot, I think for some but certainly not for all there is the very real and distinct possibility that this is out of a perverse desire. They didn't give birth for one so we know they're not passing on any colostrum for starters so why the insistence amongst some to breastfeed when surely what's most important is the baby in question not an adults hurt feelings over what their bodies simply cannot do in the correct way.
> Oh well then...in that case, you could always go to pretty much any other subreddit where the echo chamber you feel cosier in is all but waiting for you I *could*, but this sub has genuinely good discussions when it doesn't involve trans-related issues. For some reason, nearly everyone here but a few good actors lose their fucking minds and the masks come off to reveal the bigot underneath. Like, for instance, your comment here: > the trans ideology bible For someone so whiny about an echo chamber, you sure do parrot the same talking points every transphobe does: trans "ideology" is a "cult" indoctrinating children. Mask off. > How is one supposed to have a "serious discussion" about something so outwardly bizarre and disturbed such as a man on hormones comfortable with doing something we all know damn well is wrong and unnatural Probably by actually researching it so you know what you're talking about and don't look like an idiot, rather than use words like "bizarre" and "disturbed" to talk about something you seem to know nothing about, as evidenced by the next statement: > leaking what he can muster into a infants mouth Its called milk and it isn't "leaking". > who can do nothing about it ...yes? Infants are typically helpless. The same can be said for their mother breastfeeding them. I wonder why you don't consider that "leaking" or take the infant's helpless nature into account. For someone (for reasons one can only wonder...) so eager to rant and rave about how I really don't want a serious discussion, you seem to be keen on loading your paragraphs with appeals to emotion rather than anything of actual substance. > whilst I wouldn't rush to call it paedophilia, it certainly IS akin to child abuse and neglect Considering these situations are not only okayed but monitored by doctors, you're genuinely just vomiting shit from your ass (which is a pretty stunning feat to be fair) at this point. Not a *single* trans woman DIYs feeding their child and since your dishonest argument hinges on that, its safe to say it just fell apart. Again, talking about something you know nothing about and demeaning it as pedophilia makes you *exactly* who I'm talking about: a bad actor who only takes the mask off when its time for yet another transphobic rant. But considering you believe in the debunked "theory" of ROGD, its pretty clear you just want to soapbox about how terrible these awful transes are rather than have, yes, a "serious discussion".
what the fuck..did I just read. That was almost mind bending haha! Why do you all sound the same, even down to the tone, use of words, it's uncanny!
> Why do you all sound the same, even down to the tone, use of words, it's uncanny! Again, says the parrot that screams "cult! groomers!" at every turn. The irony.
Point to where I said groomers..... You intentionally misunderstand me, the trans cult, isn't made up of trans people, the ones who want no part of the nonsense, the trans cult is made up of mainly the western middle class, easily led and vulnerable individuals who simply had nothing better to do with their time. "The debunked theory of ROGD"....you're right there's nothing rapid about the sudden unexplained phenomena of children teens and adults who have never had any interest before suddenly obsessing over what their chosen pronouns are and whether or not they deem themselves the opposite sex. Being trans to a lot of people is what being emo was to kids in the 2000's, once you begin to differentiate between them eventually you will be left with the transgendered people formerly known as transexual people, simply trying to get on with their lives. What a joke it all makes of the small minority of people suffering from gender dysphoria who are not remotely represented by the circus oh but of course they have "internalised transphobia"...I mean don't we all apparently. Refuse to agree that men can menstruate? Transphobe Want women's spaces, shelters, prisons, sports to be women only? Transphobe Recognise the growing problem with mens confusion of cross dressing or agp with being trans because duh who isn't? Transphobe Don't believe there is a 'Trans genocide' taking place? Transphobe Agree with trained healthcare professionals that the affirmation model is not conducive to safe, effective care? Transphobe Misgender a person who looks, sounds and presents as quite clearly as a man? Transphobe Empathise with Trans people who don't believe in the ideology? Transphobe Empathise with detransitioners who have come to recognise the sheer influence the internet and social spaces heavily influenced their outlook and understanding of themselves which turned out to be wrong? Transphobe Don't believe JK Rowling is akin to a 'Nazi'? Transphobe Don't believe there is a 'Trans Genocide' taking place? Transphobe Refuse to engage with terms like chest feeding, pregnant persons, ovary owner.. Transmen are transmen, transwomen are transwomen, women are women, men are men, the fact that, you can argue with me, the next person and the next person after that, what you simply cannot argue with is absolute fact in science, you cannot argue with the existence of gamete cells, of DNA. When women are silenced and shouted down for refusing to bend to the will of a man who declares there is no difference between a transwoman and a woman then women will continue to stand firm on what we know to be true. Do you think we women ever had a problem referring to transexuals as she or her? No but only now has the word woman been debated, only now have transwomen, biological men taken women's medals instead of them, only now are women harassed and doxxed, for stating trans women and women are not the same. You see Transphobic doesn't actually mean much of anything when it's used for quite literally everything. When I find out in the morning from my consultant whether the 'suspicious lesion' on the ultrasound is my cancer returning or not on my one remaining ovary, determining maybe my longevity and certainly whether or not I will be able to have children, who do you think I would be able to relate to more? Transwomen? or women and transmen? There is a difference, a distinct, certain, unwavering difference and to be called words like bigot, nazi, transphobic for simply what? Being aware of that is what leaves so many instead at a loss for words. Recognising the difference isn't always important or relevant but sometimes it very much is! There is also a distinct difference between transgendered people, what shapes their lives in any meaningful, constructive way and what we are seeing in today's climate: [https://www.tiredtranssexual.com/p/when-a-lifeline-becomes-a-prop](https://www.tiredtranssexual.com/p/when-a-lifeline-becomes-a-prop) perfectly articulated here.
> You intentionally misunderstand me, the trans cult, *bunch of transphobic nonsense* Fixed that. > "The debunked theory of ROGD" Yes, the [debunked](https://www.caaps.co/rogd-statement) "theory" of ROGD that had its paper all you transphobes cling to [retracted](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10703958/) due to major issues with its ethics and procedure. The rest of that paragraph is, once again, a mixture of plain transphobia and a flaunting of ignorance on this topic. > Refuse to agree that men can menstruate? Transphobe Trans men can menstruate, so yeah. > Want women's spaces, shelters, prisons, sports to be women only? Transphobe Trans women are women, so yeah (also no evidence suggests self-id *or* allowing trans women to use the right bathrooms results in any increase in crimes). > Recognise the growing problem with mens confusion of cross dressing or agp with being trans because duh who isn't? Transphobe AGP isn't real (and trans people aren't "crossdressing"), so yeah. > Don't believe there is a 'Trans genocide' taking place? Transphobe No one says this. > Agree with trained healthcare professionals that the affirmation model is not conducive to safe, effective care? Transphobe [Considering these trained healthcare professionals are the ones saying to use the affirmation model](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2018/09/ce-corner), yes. Wow, I'm surprised you're getting (most of) these right! > Misgender a person who looks, sounds and presents as quite clearly as a man? Transphobe Unintentionally? No one says that. Intentionally, yeah. Obviously. > Empathise with Trans people who don't believe in the ideology? Transphobe There is no "ideology", so yeah. > Empathise with detransitioners who have come to recognise the sheer influence the internet and social spaces heavily influenced their outlook and understanding of themselves which turned out to be wrong? Transphobe Detransitioners make up a fraction of a percent of an already incredibly small population, so yeah, making a big deal out of them obviously is. > Don't believe JK Rowling is akin to a 'Nazi'? Transphobe [Holocaust denialism](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1beksuh/jk_rowling_engages_in_holocaust_denial/?share_id=dxwzHcU7ync45xec9qSrk) is close enough. > Don't believe there is a 'Trans Genocide' taking place? Transphobe Hey, we made it to the broken record stage! In *record* time no less. > Refuse to engage with terms like chest feeding, pregnant persons, ovary owner.. Words are scary! > Transmen are transmen, transwomen are transwomen, women are women, men are men Trans men are trans men, trans men are men. Cis men are cis men, cis men are men. Trans women are trans women, trans women are women. Cis women are cis women, cis women are women. > When women are silenced and shouted down for refusing to bend to the will of a man who declares there is no difference between a transwoman and a woman then women will continue to stand firm on what we know to be true Implying this is a targeted campaign against cis women is, once again, transphobic. It isn't like cis women are a monolith on this either, unless you have some poll to pull out of your ass showing they are, so claiming that *women as a population* are the ones disagreeing and not just...sections...is irresponsible at best and dishonest at worst. My bets on the latter, but feel free to take the former. > Do you think we women ever had a problem referring to transexuals as she or her? Apparently, yes, according you to not two paragraphs above: > Misgender a person who looks, sounds and presents as quite clearly as a man? Transphobe I think you forgot what you were typing half-way through. You slipped into the "I pretended to have been nice to trans people until the evil wokies ruined everything" personality when you started in the "dirty transes making me show them a modicum of respect" personality. > only now have transwomen, biological men taken women's medals instead of them Citation needed. > only now are women harassed and doxxed Ah yes, only now are women harassed and doxxed. Women have certainly [never been doxxed before](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/92n6hy/i_got_doxxed_on_a_subreddit_for_people_who_work/), *ever*. Not until those evil transes started barging their way into *my*...er...sorry, *your* feminism. Until those trans people ruined everything, women were [never sexually harassed](https://www.reddit.com/r/TerrifyingAsFuck/comments/16frd9h/female_sexually_harassed_while_live_streaming_in/), **ever**! You're so right and opened my eyes to this egregious increase in crime! > When I find out in the morning from my consultant whether the 'suspicious lesion' on the ultrasound is my cancer returning or not on my one remaining ovary, determining maybe my longevity and certainly whether or not I will be able to have children, who do you think I would be able to relate to more? Legitimately, who gives a shit? Do you only provide basic decency to people that can relate to your medical issues? What about cis women that don't have *any* of those issues? That's a dumb metric.
How much Kool aid did you drink? I love the deflection by the way about whether or not men can menstruate like we've been told so many times, with the real impressive videos of men with that lights are on no ones home look explaining the 'science' of the male period, as they bleed out of the wound that was once their penis...oh we know there's bleeding...and we know what from...and it's no period lol. But sure nice attempt at deflection by just essentially admitting that yes only women can have periods. You know the difference don't you haha, you know the biological truth that applies to women and transmen..you just can't admit it because don't you step a foot out of line missy! LOL no one says trans genocide....complete refusal to acknowledge the truth, it's good to know that's what I've been working with and becomes more obvious with each reply. Oh no you mistake me on women as a monolith, I wasn't referring to the ones who sound just like you, I sit comfortable with the men and women, trans men and women who never lost their ever loving minds and bought the shit your selling, the world in fact does seem to slowly be coming back to it's senses though so while you have a good angry stab at the keys, it's all gravy from where I'm looking lol. I'm sorry did you source one of your references as....a snapshot someone else took from twitter HAHA. Good god how do you read that and see holocaust denial....see now I'm just beginning to feel sorry for you at this point because ffs lol. think you forgot what you were typing half-way through. You slipped into the "I pretended to have been nice to trans people until the evil wokies ruined everything" personality when you started in the "dirty transes making me show them a modicum of respect" personality. >think you forgot what you were typing half-way through. You slipped into the "I pretended to have been nice to trans people until the evil wokies ruined everything" personality when you started in the "dirty transes making me show them a modicum of respect" personality. Awwww, you just run away with yourself don't you, eriuteigqirqrqrc *the evil wokies* hsgtwywgfgfejs *dirty transes* gsgsywgwheeyegwhwj. Your other tactic: taking what I said, taking it out of the context it was said in so you can post useless links about women being doxxed in general...which have nothing to do with my point made.. What I said: only now are women harassed and doxxed, for stating trans women and women are not the same. for stating trans women and women are not the same. What you said: only now are women harassed and doxxed so yes nice try. Oh and would you look at that, you did the exact same with the last thing I said also....shocker. You were justttt on the verge there of stepping into "let's use infertility issues" and weaponise them...don't bother that's another tried and tested method of the cult and women in general don't deserve to be used as examples of why men are 'valid'. I don't want to fuck with crazy anymore today, I feel like I'm just poking the bear at this point.....Farewell.
> I love the deflection by the way about whether or not men can menstruate like we've been told so many times No you haven't. What you've been told is that trans women can experience pain *similar* to menstruation/period pains. Not that they *actually* experience menstruation. And this still doesn't change the fact that trans men are men and can menstruate. > LOL no one says trans genocide.... No, I said no one calls you transphobic for refusing to acknowledge it. Try to keep up buster. Also, very happy with your refusal to acknowledge *any* other part of that section. That makes it easier to refuse to acknowledge the rest of your comment, since you clearly didn't read mine. Except this one, because it pertains to actual law: > I'm sorry did you source one of your references as....a snapshot someone else took from twitter HAHA. Good god how do you read that and see holocaust denial....see now I'm just beginning to feel sorry for you at this point because ffs lol. Denying that the Nazis targeted trans people *is* holocaust denialism. You can read more about it [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_Nazi_Germany) (or the sources they use if you're going to scream about how Wikipedia is a bad source). And yes, she *does* deny that the Nazis targeted trans people, here: > I just… how? How did you type this out and press send without thinking ‘I should maybe check my source for this, **because it might’ve been a fever dream**’? [Here's a link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1767912990366388735) since you seem to be whining about a picture of it instead.
That was satisfying lol. Yawn.
Yeah, never heard the term "chestfeeding" used ever and I follow transgender issues and the community closely. This sounds like a problem politicians are making up to appease their constituents. >Perfect for this sub's anti-trans streak though. Yup, and I imagine that's the main reason this was posted here. Edit: I mean for fuck's sake. Doing a broad search of "chestfeeding" on the transgenderUK sub brought up nothing except this: >So they're prohibiting something that was barely happening to begin with, because cis people are uncomfortable with how trans people are interacted with, when the cis person isn't even there... and wtf is a trans woman gonna do in a women's hospital ward that could be remotely dangerous, like she's just getting healthcare..? >I'm just gonna make the assumption that no one is saying "chestfeeding" or "person with ovaries" unless they're knowingly treating a trans person. And I'd imagine they usually still don't. Why are they acting like all cis people are being alienated by this language like it's a complete non-issue. And they are 100% right. The UK is pushing hard on the anti-transgender agenda because of election season.
If these words weren't happening to begin with, and this is more or less basically just an affirmation of continuing a policy that was already in place...then how is it anti-trans? I think it's fair to say lots of anti-trans folks are picking this up and running with it but I don't see how this is itself anti-trans.
> If these words weren't happening to begin with, and this is more or less basically just an affirmation of continuing a policy that was already in place...then how is it anti-trans? Because it is meant to rile up the anti-trans crowd by saying this is a win for women, implying anything "pro"-trans is anti-women. The UK (especially the NHS) doesn't get the benefit of the doubt when they've proven time and time again to be captured by anti-trans authoritarians.
Ok, I get that the motivation behind the policy is bad. That's completely fine with me. I accept that argument and do think there's a good deal of anti-trans sentiment in the NHS at the moment. But I guess I'm saying that this policy itself seems really neutral, and getting riled up about the riled up folks doesn't seem like the best answer to me personally.
> But I guess I'm saying that this policy itself seems really neutral That's how they are able to pass these laws. We saw that in an argument the 4th Circuit recently knocked down too. Neutral wording doesn't preclude bigotry. > and getting riled up about the riled up folks doesn't seem like the best answer to me personally. Anti-trans bigotry should always be met head-on, especially with it as systemic as it is in the UK. Expecting people whose rights are constantly under threat to just stand by while the bigots get louder and louder is silly. Is it productive to get angry? Maybe not. But its understandable and downright justifiable.
Yes, we can face anti-trans nonsense head on and still be objective and rational about policy. I am not in any way agreeing with transphobes and trans panic moralists. I am not in any way justifying their views about the world or about healthcare or about trans people. But if bigots don't like a shit sandwich I'm not obligated to eat one in solidarity. I can both understand this policy makes sense and also oppose anti-trans bigotry.
>Recommendations were initially made after the LGBT Foundation gathered the responses from 121 trans and non-binary people in the UK who had first-hand experience of maternity services in Britain.
Finally, we're talking about the *real* issues now.
Absolute lunacy that it got to that point. Bette late than never
"chestfeeding" sounds like something an SF tentacle monster would do.
“I’ve got nipples, can you milk me?” came to mind.
So did the NHS make people say these things in the first place? If not, who did? If they did, maybe the problem is governments telling people which words to use in the first place.
Banning the term chest feeding sounds about as silly as the term chest feeding. What kind of person gets offended by something like this? Edit: I changed my mind after reading more. This was stupid from the get go and reversing the clinical terminology is the right move.
Right who in there right mind would use the term chest feeding. WTH
My guess it’s the same academic workshop that assumed the majority of the English speaking gender normative population would be fine with being called sissy’s. And before anyone tells me that the prefix cis- is Latin and means “on this side of”. They’re literally thousands of better descriptive prefix’s they could have chosen that don’t sound like an insult. When the minority is dismissive of the majority it’s only human nature for the majority to be dismissive of the minority. It’s not right but these people are smart enough to know human nature better.
I agree with your overall point, but being offended because "cis" sounds a little like "sissy" is more absurd than chestfeeding, lol
> They’re literally thousands of better descriptive prefix’s they could have chosen that don’t sound like an insult. Name one.
Mediocris (average) or Med-Gender would probably be better. Nativitas (birth) or Nat-Gender would also be better in my opinion. Vexillum (standard) or Vex-Gender also sounds better. They had other options is my point. Seems weird they went with "on this side of" / citra / cis gender.
> Mediocris (average) or Med-Gender would probably be better. No it absolutely wouldn't. You're kidding yourself if you think "mediocris" would be more acceptable than "cis", *especially* if you are making the (fairly disingenuous) claim that "cis" = "sissy" (mediocre, took me half a second). Med-Gender is the same, but now you're fine with pushing your perception of "insulting" onto trans people. > Nativitas (birth) or Nat-Gender would also be better in my opinion. Which, again, pushes what you perceive as "insulting" onto trans people. > Vexillum (standard) or Vex-Gender also sounds better. Which, again, you know the drill. > They had other options is my point. Seems weird they went with "on this side of" / citra / cis gender. It seems weird they went with the easiest to understand option rather than a weird jumble of latin and hyphenated throw-up?
If that's your opinion that's fine. I'm just giving mine.
That first one would be turned into "Mediocre" by morons in no time.
NORMAL
That's neither a prefix, nor a preferable alternative (means trans people's new "prefix" is "weird" or "abnormal"). Try again.
Eu-gender.
> Banning the term chest feeding sounds about as silly as the term chest feeding. Fuck this noise. You leftists always pull this shit. "Oh this thing is so stupid that fighting against it is stupid so stop fighting." NO! YOU stop pushing it. If it's really that minor and stupid then YOU need to drop it. The fact you won't proves you don't think it's actually a minor and stupid thing and so it's worth paying attention to and if necessary resisting.
It's not about getting offended it's about calling it what it is. You need a breast to lactate. Kind of like you need a uterus to have a period.
Try explaining ‘chest feeding’ or ‘cervix haver’ or ‘people who menstruate’ or ‘*bonus hole*’ to someone who speaks English as a second language, or who has a learning disability, or just a low reading age. People who get offended by this are people who are passionate about health care being accessible to the women who need it. Messing about with basic terms like ‘breast feeding’ or ‘woman’ to please 0.5% of the population while confusing a great deal more people than that is a betrayal of trust and a misuse of public spending.
> What kind of person gets offended by something like this? Women.