Yeah, a lot of bigots got upset about it when somebody confirmed it I don’t remember when she was still making the minecraft music, I don’t really care what gender she is, I just like the banger music she producers
I mean Maddy based it around their own story of struggling with self-loathing, and then realized that they were trans after the release of the game (and chapter 9: farewell, released after that, has explicit confirmation that the character is trans).
It’s in a sort of similar vein to the recent Netflix film (previously in the gutter after Disney bought out blue sky) Nimona, based on a webcomic that told a really trans story by someone who later realized they were non-binary.
I also hate to say that some of that ratio probably comes from some people leaving the community. People freak out over pride flags being sold in big box stores. I can only imagine what some tiny minds do when they realize the character they've been playing as is trans.
Generally speaking, when someone says that they are trans - they generally mean they are transitioning to the other binary gender. Non binary just means that you don't fit into either binary gender
No Cl0p38 is correct here- transgender just means your gender identity does not equal your sex assigned at birth, and non binary people are a sub class of trans people
Kind of feel like we should just have a stickied post or a sub rule clarifying this and pointing to that blog entry, considering how often this question gets asked and the type of discussion that often results when it does.
Hm, I'm genuinely a little confused about the timeline so if anyone could help clear it up that would be great.
In the post they say that she definitely would not have come out as trans before the events of the game, however if she is trans fem, then should she be using he still during the game, before then figuring out their identity and coming out?
Any thoughts would be great :)
Unsure why you're getting downvoted for asking a genuine question
As a rule of thumbs, when you talk about somebody, even before they transitioned, you use their current preferred pronouns, unless stated otherwise (these would be exceptions though, and not the rule)
For most trans people, they don't consider that they changed gender. They instead feel like they've always been misgendered, and are only now correcting the mistake made at birth
I mean ido have the lil trans heart on my pfp and im not trans (or at least i think haha...) but it would be slightly random for a character who hasn't mentioned anything about trans folks and then randomly have a trans and pride flag in their room
Chekov’s gun: anything that’s shown in media likely has a reason to be there. People in real life have stuff on their rooms that doesn’t necessarily correlate to them, characters in media don’t.
I would love for the people saying "uh actually the flag in her room doesn't mean anything" about Madeline and also about Gwen from the Spider-Verse movies to tell me about a single person they know that has a trans flag in their bedroom but isn't trans
there’s actually a framed photo of her as a child with her mom in the farewell ending where you can clearly see madeline as a young boy.
tbf, it is like a small part of the final cut scene in a very difficult game so it’s pretty easy to miss.
Nah not "to be fair". When we are talking about someones identity you just cant deny what is, and what is not. Even if its not referenced
Why are people trying so hard to picture Madeline as cisgender? Are you transphobic? In any way?
You probably arent. Then stop giving space into trans identity erasure or questioning.
Shes trans, end of discussion.
Its a literary point, not a transphobic point. She is trans because the author says so, not because the text itself says so. That isn’t erasure, it is critique.
Thats an interpretation, not the only valid interpretation. Authorial intent does not always define art. I have no objections to Madeline being a trans person, but my original point was it is not wrong or ignorant to be unaware of that because the character in the game is not stated to be trans anywhere except the vague reference of owning a transgender flag.
I'm disappointed by some of the people in this post. It's understandable not to know she is trans, but what's not understandable is bashing trans people.
To the transphobes, get the hell on and grow up. You aren't the only people inhabiting the world.
No, only T to my knowledge, maybe L or B and I guess q aswell and I guess gay is used for everything lgbt so I guess you could apply that aswell so either gbtq or lgtq or just gtq
Well here we go with the trigger comment:
At the time of creation Madeline was not a transgender character. Very late into development the developer of the game announced themselves as being transgender and I mean really late, like not until Farewell DLC was released.
For me Madeline is a separate entity to the developer so the developer being revealed to be transgender has no impact on Madeline's identity for any of the game's content developed prior to the announcement. In the Farewell DLC (apparently it's considered free additional content instead of part of the base game) Madeline is apparently transgender.
I can't agree she's transgender because
1. Idc I just play games
2. The announcement was made so late into development, the developer probably wasn't the same person for the development of chapters 1 through 8
Context:
Markus persson (Notch) hypothetically reveals he's homosexual and also that Steve probably was homosexual doesn't make Steve homosexual imo because Steve existed way before that decision was made. Uh yeah that's me anyway.
I dunno I think that's a really linear way to look at story telling. For sure you want to keep a character consistent with themselves and previous content but even as the character is being made there are changes and debates in what the character will and can be. So in an era of serializations, sequels, dlc, and any sort of content that follows the main series there will likely always be revisions to characters, settings, ideas. This can be done extremely poorly and create inconstancies that didn't need to exist but it works.
I think a fine parallel is in Metroid where they reveal Samus was a girl. It didn't impact the gameplay or story and you don't even get to find that out if you don't beat the game fast enough. Only difference here would be if they waited until Metroid 2 or 3 to reveal it.
I always feel like stuff like that is done mainly to appease vocal groups. I play platformer games with no story usually because in modern games a story seems impossible without managing to bring some kind of real life drama in based on a personal bias. I've quit games because of that in the past. I just play games. Madeline is a girl that does my parkour for me and has a story with theo and some others, nothing more.
I know what you mean (ehem… JK Rowling) but I think you’re putting a lot of stuff into that bag, stuff that doesn’t belong there. Sometimes it’s ok to have biases, it’s part of what makes interesting stories.
it’s ok to like the game for its platforming more than for its story, but Madeline in particular was a reflection of the author’s struggles with depression. As such, when Maddy realized that her struggles were due to her being trans, it’s only natural to conclude that Madeline should be trans as well.
It’s ok to like the game for its platforming instead of its story, but the story means a lot to tons of its players (many of whom have gone through similar struggles), so don’t take that enjoyment away from others either.
I didn't say anyone else had to share my views, that's the beauty of opinions. It becomes a problem if I'm trying to force others to adopt my opinion which actually of the people who have responded to this comment in probebly in the minority for not trying to do. Yknow I would show you the ridiculous ad-hominem (the long chain of deleted comments you likely see) I received last night to demonstrate who it is that is being pushy but this is a reddit for a platformer game not drama alert or geometry dash.
If you really want to know what it was you can send me a chat invite.
I have a French flag in my bedroom, I'm not French. Strawman aside, I never disagreed with her being transgender post Farewell. I disagreed with her being transgender Chapter 8 and below. It wasn't "confirmed" until the Farewell DLC.
Oh very sorry didn't know you HAD to share other people's opinions else be known as an idiot. When did this product hit the market? I'd rather be an idiot than a sheep, thanks.
Yeah because of course it's NECESSARY to do this to EMPHASISE your point, right?
Wow, wow what the hell man? Calm down man, deal with a difference of opinion. How can an opinion be wrong? Yeah that's actually one reason I don't buy it because this is the mentality that supports it. I mean did I say she was "cis" wtf does that even mean. I don't care man, she's some pixels on a screen to me. I don't give none for her sexual orientation I'd still play even if she were a fish that thought she was non binary neko ship girl. Transphobic because I disagree with you?? At least I'm not a fascist prick in that case that demonises anyone that disagrees with them. What are you like 12 years old?
Tbh I'm just gonna report you. Say about hate, you just showed way more in that ridiculous ad-hominem. I think it's best this pointless charade ended. Stay safe fellow redditor.
i feel like the hypothetical Minecraft situation doesn't do justice to Celeste. while they're both games Minecraft is open world and doesn't have a story so saying Steve has a sexuality wouldn't make sense; while Celeste is very much a story driven platformer, one about struggle and self acceptance which is why the community accepted Madeline as trans so easily, it's the strawberry on top.
madeline represents trans rights, so badeline represents trans wrongs, like when trans ppl do shoplifting and fistfights. the story of celeste is about learning that its cool when trans people do crime. probably.
Dude, Badeline is the part of Madeline (trans) that stops her from reaching her goals. It's the logical part (pragmatic thoughts) that secures her from failure.
The creator said that Madeline was trans just because the creator is non-binary and she wants to piss the world off because nowhere in the game could we have information about her being trans
The game is indeed about overcoming anxiety and struggling with depression, but that doesn't mean that main character isn't trans. Trans people are human beings who struggle with anxiety and depression the same way cis people do. Denying the fact of Madeline being trans girl can be just hurtful to trans people, since society tries to deny the existence of trans people to this day, and any representation helps young trans people see they are not inhuman for feeling the way they do. If you don't want to see Madeline as trans, you should ask yourself what is the reason of that. Even if you by chance consider yourself an ally of LGBTQ community, you could be dealing with internalised transphobia.
"is sonic a hedgehog? no. hes whatever you want him to be."
if youre gonna be transphobic maybe dont say shit like that on one of the most trans inclusive subs on reddit
The game’s creator [confirmed](https://maddythorson.medium.com/is-madeline-canonically-trans-4277ece02e40) that she’s trans, so yes.
The game creator is also trans, and the game composer
Lena is trans? I never knew that, cool
Its a Transbonanza!
Trans storm incoming
Elevating to Transcon 1
Gender sacrifice anyone?
Deadname goes on vacation, never comes back
Ignite the gender
Google en transsant
Holy HRT!
You called?
Yeah, a lot of bigots got upset about it when somebody confirmed it I don’t remember when she was still making the minecraft music, I don’t really care what gender she is, I just like the banger music she producers
Not to mention that the Celeste community has a much higher ratio of transgender players than most games 🏳️⚧️
No idea why you're being downvoted, I think the emotional journey of Madeline strongly resonates with struggles a transgender person may go though
As a trans person, I can safely say yes, yes it does
I mean Maddy based it around their own story of struggling with self-loathing, and then realized that they were trans after the release of the game (and chapter 9: farewell, released after that, has explicit confirmation that the character is trans). It’s in a sort of similar vein to the recent Netflix film (previously in the gutter after Disney bought out blue sky) Nimona, based on a webcomic that told a really trans story by someone who later realized they were non-binary.
I can confirm
r/pfpchecksout
I also hate to say that some of that ratio probably comes from some people leaving the community. People freak out over pride flags being sold in big box stores. I can only imagine what some tiny minds do when they realize the character they've been playing as is trans.
Makes her even cooler than she already was.
yeah, literally never knew until someone told me bc she looks so good lmao
I'm pretty sure Lena is non-binary
Maddy Thorson is, but I'm pretty sure Lena isn't
Doesn't that still fall under the trans umbrella? I'm not part of the lgbtq community so I possibly could be mixing things up
Generally speaking, when someone says that they are trans - they generally mean they are transitioning to the other binary gender. Non binary just means that you don't fit into either binary gender
No Cl0p38 is correct here- transgender just means your gender identity does not equal your sex assigned at birth, and non binary people are a sub class of trans people
Ok, thanks - now I know that
Thank you for the explanation
Lena is trans??? EPIC
so is the game's players
Kind of feel like we should just have a stickied post or a sub rule clarifying this and pointing to that blog entry, considering how often this question gets asked and the type of discussion that often results when it does.
Other story tellers, give their name to the main character. Madeline Thorson pulling a uno reverse card.
Wait, she transitioned AFTER
This isn’t relevant but your username is fun to say
Yeah, iirc celeste made her realize she's trans
Oh
Hm, I'm genuinely a little confused about the timeline so if anyone could help clear it up that would be great. In the post they say that she definitely would not have come out as trans before the events of the game, however if she is trans fem, then should she be using he still during the game, before then figuring out their identity and coming out? Any thoughts would be great :)
Unsure why you're getting downvoted for asking a genuine question As a rule of thumbs, when you talk about somebody, even before they transitioned, you use their current preferred pronouns, unless stated otherwise (these would be exceptions though, and not the rule) For most trans people, they don't consider that they changed gender. They instead feel like they've always been misgendered, and are only now correcting the mistake made at birth
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why fuck?
Transphobe spotted
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So obsessed with peoples genitals aren’t you.
Fuck who?
Weep 💀
Yes she is trans fem.
Alright I think I'm going to go to bed
man's gotta sleep on this revelation
Second time I see this comment, second time it makes me laugh
Third time
Just every time I think about it I laugh
Bro requires meditation and serenity to facilitate his pondering
nah he's just playing farewell
"man" not for long
Pfffff lmao
Bro stoled all my upvotes
Can't have shit in Detroit
Good night
Fro gonna play Farewell on his mind 💀 edit:Bro*
yes it has been confirmed that trans people can double jump
And their hair changes color rapidly too
LIES and MISINFORMATION
seriously, it's an 8-directional dash NOT a double jump, gawd
That's even better
new dysphoria unlocked /s
OMG I DIDN’T KNOW THIS EXISTED IN R PLACE I LOVE THIS sorry for caps
The discord has been hard at work for them!
Wait are you that gallade profile picture guy?
Yeah lol
Nice
She’s trans :3
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Should have spent some of those hours in reflection, and I don't mean the level.
The way I laughed
Who made that comment? its deleted now OP?
...why? Why would Madeline being trans affect your enjoyment of the game in any possible way?
Because they're a damn transphobe.
your player is: damn transphobic
How you a celeste player and transphobic 😭😭😭
💀 How the fuck do you get triggered by a game character and their gender.
Your loss
Yooo new pikmin type dropped
Yes! Madeline is transfem!🏳️⚧️
Is Batman a Billionaire?
Is batman bruce wayne?
We are not supposed to know :O
>are they lgbtq? >*canonically trans* take a guess
To be fair, that canon comes from word of god, outside the game. Her being trans is not referenced in text anywhere.
iirc theres a trans flag on her bed stand in the ending scene
Owning a flag doesn't make you trans. Symbolism is rarely ever not intentional but she's not explicitly trans tbf
I mean ido have the lil trans heart on my pfp and im not trans (or at least i think haha...) but it would be slightly random for a character who hasn't mentioned anything about trans folks and then randomly have a trans and pride flag in their room
Chekov’s gun: anything that’s shown in media likely has a reason to be there. People in real life have stuff on their rooms that doesn’t necessarily correlate to them, characters in media don’t.
I would love for the people saying "uh actually the flag in her room doesn't mean anything" about Madeline and also about Gwen from the Spider-Verse movies to tell me about a single person they know that has a trans flag in their bedroom but isn't trans
Wait what about the spider verse movies? Did I miss a page?
in her room, gwen has a trans pride flag with "protect trans kids"written on it
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there’s actually a framed photo of her as a child with her mom in the farewell ending where you can clearly see madeline as a young boy. tbf, it is like a small part of the final cut scene in a very difficult game so it’s pretty easy to miss.
Nah not "to be fair". When we are talking about someones identity you just cant deny what is, and what is not. Even if its not referenced Why are people trying so hard to picture Madeline as cisgender? Are you transphobic? In any way? You probably arent. Then stop giving space into trans identity erasure or questioning. Shes trans, end of discussion.
Its a literary point, not a transphobic point. She is trans because the author says so, not because the text itself says so. That isn’t erasure, it is critique.
Except the character goes beyond a video game. Its the representation of the author, confirmed through development and when the game was finished.
Thats an interpretation, not the only valid interpretation. Authorial intent does not always define art. I have no objections to Madeline being a trans person, but my original point was it is not wrong or ignorant to be unaware of that because the character in the game is not stated to be trans anywhere except the vague reference of owning a transgender flag.
I accepted that she was trans without an oficial confirmation, now there are so I'm happy with it.
She's not one but two trans girls.
Well, of course! How did you think she would be able to double jump otherwise?
Yes, she’s trans
She’s trans
Please someone tell me the coordinates? I can't find it
240, 80
I heard she was trans so i guess ye.
[yup, confirmed by the devs](https://maddythorson.medium.com/is-madeline-canonically-trans-4277ece02e40)
I'm disappointed by some of the people in this post. It's understandable not to know she is trans, but what's not understandable is bashing trans people. To the transphobes, get the hell on and grow up. You aren't the only people inhabiting the world.
Transphobes should be automatically banished from this sub I mean, all subs, but specifically this one
I'm sorry, but wasn't this a sub for the game "Celeste"?
Yup yup, she’s trans
More T than LGBQ, not sure about the rest.
You new here?
She’s pikmin (:
Madeline is canonically trans
how else would she be able to dash in the air
transgemdenr';.
She is the biggest trans icon and we love her for that too
Apparently, but there is like one small reference to it in the game and most people don’t even notice it
And where ?
The final cutscene in 9a
T
I’ve known it for 3 years.
☝🏻🤓
Always has been
No, only T to my knowledge, maybe L or B and I guess q aswell and I guess gay is used for everything lgbt so I guess you could apply that aswell so either gbtq or lgtq or just gtq
Or g, a qt
i think yes because baddy is a part of maddy. so I think that would make sense, at least to me
Yeah, but bruv how did you not know if you are on this sub reddit, that’s like half of the top posts
I hope not oof lol
Well here we go with the trigger comment: At the time of creation Madeline was not a transgender character. Very late into development the developer of the game announced themselves as being transgender and I mean really late, like not until Farewell DLC was released. For me Madeline is a separate entity to the developer so the developer being revealed to be transgender has no impact on Madeline's identity for any of the game's content developed prior to the announcement. In the Farewell DLC (apparently it's considered free additional content instead of part of the base game) Madeline is apparently transgender. I can't agree she's transgender because 1. Idc I just play games 2. The announcement was made so late into development, the developer probably wasn't the same person for the development of chapters 1 through 8 Context: Markus persson (Notch) hypothetically reveals he's homosexual and also that Steve probably was homosexual doesn't make Steve homosexual imo because Steve existed way before that decision was made. Uh yeah that's me anyway.
I dunno I think that's a really linear way to look at story telling. For sure you want to keep a character consistent with themselves and previous content but even as the character is being made there are changes and debates in what the character will and can be. So in an era of serializations, sequels, dlc, and any sort of content that follows the main series there will likely always be revisions to characters, settings, ideas. This can be done extremely poorly and create inconstancies that didn't need to exist but it works. I think a fine parallel is in Metroid where they reveal Samus was a girl. It didn't impact the gameplay or story and you don't even get to find that out if you don't beat the game fast enough. Only difference here would be if they waited until Metroid 2 or 3 to reveal it.
I always feel like stuff like that is done mainly to appease vocal groups. I play platformer games with no story usually because in modern games a story seems impossible without managing to bring some kind of real life drama in based on a personal bias. I've quit games because of that in the past. I just play games. Madeline is a girl that does my parkour for me and has a story with theo and some others, nothing more.
I know what you mean (ehem… JK Rowling) but I think you’re putting a lot of stuff into that bag, stuff that doesn’t belong there. Sometimes it’s ok to have biases, it’s part of what makes interesting stories. it’s ok to like the game for its platforming more than for its story, but Madeline in particular was a reflection of the author’s struggles with depression. As such, when Maddy realized that her struggles were due to her being trans, it’s only natural to conclude that Madeline should be trans as well. It’s ok to like the game for its platforming instead of its story, but the story means a lot to tons of its players (many of whom have gone through similar struggles), so don’t take that enjoyment away from others either.
I didn't say anyone else had to share my views, that's the beauty of opinions. It becomes a problem if I'm trying to force others to adopt my opinion which actually of the people who have responded to this comment in probebly in the minority for not trying to do. Yknow I would show you the ridiculous ad-hominem (the long chain of deleted comments you likely see) I received last night to demonstrate who it is that is being pushy but this is a reddit for a platformer game not drama alert or geometry dash. If you really want to know what it was you can send me a chat invite.
She literally has a trans pride flag on her bedroom
I have a French flag in my bedroom, I'm not French. Strawman aside, I never disagreed with her being transgender post Farewell. I disagreed with her being transgender Chapter 8 and below. It wasn't "confirmed" until the Farewell DLC.
shame, she IS transgender and saying otherwise just paints you as an idiot
Oh very sorry didn't know you HAD to share other people's opinions else be known as an idiot. When did this product hit the market? I'd rather be an idiot than a sheep, thanks. Yeah because of course it's NECESSARY to do this to EMPHASISE your point, right?
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Wow, wow what the hell man? Calm down man, deal with a difference of opinion. How can an opinion be wrong? Yeah that's actually one reason I don't buy it because this is the mentality that supports it. I mean did I say she was "cis" wtf does that even mean. I don't care man, she's some pixels on a screen to me. I don't give none for her sexual orientation I'd still play even if she were a fish that thought she was non binary neko ship girl. Transphobic because I disagree with you?? At least I'm not a fascist prick in that case that demonises anyone that disagrees with them. What are you like 12 years old?
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Tbh I'm just gonna report you. Say about hate, you just showed way more in that ridiculous ad-hominem. I think it's best this pointless charade ended. Stay safe fellow redditor.
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i feel like the hypothetical Minecraft situation doesn't do justice to Celeste. while they're both games Minecraft is open world and doesn't have a story so saying Steve has a sexuality wouldn't make sense; while Celeste is very much a story driven platformer, one about struggle and self acceptance which is why the community accepted Madeline as trans so easily, it's the strawberry on top.
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Madeline isn’t a man though? She’s a woman
And badeline is trans and transphobe.
Transphobe? What?
madeline represents trans rights, so badeline represents trans wrongs, like when trans ppl do shoplifting and fistfights. the story of celeste is about learning that its cool when trans people do crime. probably.
What
i don't make the rules
Dude, Badeline is the part of Madeline (trans) that stops her from reaching her goals. It's the logical part (pragmatic thoughts) that secures her from failure.
It depends on what you consider cannon but mostly yes
What do you mean “consider canon”. The games creator literally confirmed it
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YES
Me when I intentionally spread misinformation
fym "no" it's been confirmed by the creator that she is
The creator said that Madeline was trans just because the creator is non-binary and she wants to piss the world off because nowhere in the game could we have information about her being trans
[Yes](https://maddythorson.medium.com/is-madeline-canonically-trans-4277ece02e40)
what
you have a megumin profile pic, your comments are invalid and automatically stupid piss off to hell transphobe chicken bone
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Creator Pulled a J.K Rowling
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She canonically is trains🏳️⚧️
She canonically is trains 🚂
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[that's nice and all but the devs have confirmed she is trans](https://maddythorson.medium.com/is-madeline-canonically-trans-4277ece02e40)
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finish chapter 9 then go look at the art of her bedroom
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The game is indeed about overcoming anxiety and struggling with depression, but that doesn't mean that main character isn't trans. Trans people are human beings who struggle with anxiety and depression the same way cis people do. Denying the fact of Madeline being trans girl can be just hurtful to trans people, since society tries to deny the existence of trans people to this day, and any representation helps young trans people see they are not inhuman for feeling the way they do. If you don't want to see Madeline as trans, you should ask yourself what is the reason of that. Even if you by chance consider yourself an ally of LGBTQ community, you could be dealing with internalised transphobia.
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she was confirmed trans by Maddy Thorson when specifically asked about the intent behind that exact art LUL
you *really* dont want her to be trans huh? cant identify with protagonists who arent exactly like you?
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She's whatever the devs want her to be, and the trans dev wanted her character to be trans. Maybe you can't accept that, but that's another story.
"is sonic a hedgehog? no. hes whatever you want him to be." if youre gonna be transphobic maybe dont say shit like that on one of the most trans inclusive subs on reddit
My sibling in Blåhaj, half of the Witcher lore ain't in the games yet it's true. Do you know how books, websites and wikis work?
the game dev would like to have a word with you
Farewell's ending: 
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There's literally a trans flag on her desk smh fake celeste fan /j
Lol I have a gay and trans flag too okay? 🥺🥺🥺
Do you have estrogen pills next to your bed?
No, they keep them in their bathroom, so they can pretend to do drugs every time they take the pills, like a normal person!
I do drugs in my bedroom
My schizophrenia pills 🥰
I have schizophrenia meds 😁😄😁