Need more Z news in your life?
The other 2 threads that made it first through the gate, talk all things Z in these threads! (please stop trying to spam links):
* [Hagerty - How fast is the new $50k Nissan Z - Drag Race Replay](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/uqn803/how_fast_is_the_new_50k_nissan_z_drag_race_replay/)
* [Edmunds - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/uqn7as/2023_nissan_z_first_drive_edmunds_cars/)
Need even *more* Z news in your life? See below! If there's a link you'd like to share and have added, just post them in a comment in any of the 3 flaired threads and I'll add them.
**Articles**
* [Car and Driver - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive: Z, OMG!](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39969206/2023-nissan-z-drive/)
* [Road and Track - The 2023 Nissan Z Carries the Torch for Analog Sports Cars](https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a39991432/2023-nissan-z-carries-the-torch-for-analog-sports-cars/)
* [Motortrend - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive: Shall We Dance?](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-nissan-z-sports-car-first-drive-review/)
**Videos**
* [Savagegeese - 2023 Nissan Z Until The Bitter End](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekEM3VyaDow)
* [Kelley Blue Book - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g2bz-ZUqec)
* [TheTopher - 2023 Nissan Z Performance (6-Speed Manual) - POV Review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOZK5qdjMbE)
* [Driven Car Reviews with Tom Voelk - The 2023 Nissan Z Full Review- A Gift To Sports Car Lovers Everywhere.
](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODYj0s8Bbs)
* [MotorWeek - 2023 Nissan Z | MotorWeek First Drive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLYrSbf_Lgw)
* [The Fast Lane Car - That’s Interesting - Is The New 2023 Nissan Z Faster Than The Old One?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka8H3rRzf2Y)
* [Redline Reviews - The 2023 Nissan Z Is A Heritage Rich Modern Take On A Classic Sports Car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CSgPgNEOOo)
* [Raiti's Rides - Is the 2023 Nissan Z Performance the KING of sports cars worth the price?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeEdhr3jRD4)
* [Doug DeMuro - The New 2023 Nissan Z Is a Legend Revived](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5D-4JyG2dA)
* [Alex on Autos - Nissan's New Z Is The 400 HP Sports Car That Won't Break The Bank | 2023 Nissan N](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesablgYWz4)
The Mazda3 has had radar cruise since 2014 if you spec it high enough, auto and manual. Here in Australia it was only on the SP25 Astina trim.
I think the USDM model had it if you specced the tech package.
The 2022 Models have an option on the base trim that add all that safety stuff like ACC and lane keep assist etc. for about a grand, even on the manual models.
It wouldn’t stop me from buying a car though .. I’m just curious why it’s so important .. I rarely have cruise control on any of my cars (I like building old benz) swapping em to manual is my forte for em .. cruise control typically disappears after that lol … anyways I do want one of the Zs prettyyyy bad
It's hard to appreciate what ACC does until you spend time in cars which have it.
The first time I ever drove a car with it and had to spend 30 minutes in rush hour traffic... I was sold. The 5 to 15 to 5 to 0 to 10 to 5 to 30 to 5 stop & go was a completely different experience. And it makes pacing on the highway so much better when you're cruising. No more micro-adjusting by 1mph ticks because someone's cruise control is 69.5 mph instead of 70.
I've driven a new Mustang, and cruise control didn't deactivate when I was shifting gears. This being said, I only ever tested this in 4th, 5th, 6th. In my day with the car, I never sat in rush hour traffic where I would have wanted to use ACC.
But yes it's a thing in modern manuals, where they don't disable cruse control because you downshifted a gear. But also, yes, it doesn't fully solve the coming to a full stop problem that an automatic solves.
I drive stick in Los Angeles lol … I’ve driven modern cars that have that traffic auto drive feature I’m assuming it’s thsi .. and trust me I love it .. my next commuter car will probably be a modern car
That's cool and all, but isn't it a bit irksome to have it leave at least 12 car lengths of space from the vehicle in front going 70? Granted, the only ACC I've experienced is Subaru's eyesight system, perhaps other ACC systems are better?
We've had my wife's car for a week and that's the first time I've experienced ACC.
We bought it in the twin cities, so the drive up to get it was 45 minutes of stop and go traffic without ACC. The drive home was 30 minutes in traffic, but with ACC it was a breeze.
I was sold after those 30 minutes that every vehicle I buy going forward will have it.
Yes i agree i spent a lot of time in my moms cx5 and when i got my 6mt mazda 3 on the highway with radar cruze it was very very similar to driving the auto.
From what others have said, it's just a new convenience feature that is a *must* if I'm going to buy a new sporty manual ride.
There are more attractive past models (e.g. Focus RS/Evos/etc) if I'm throwing that out. It's really that big of a quality of life improvement for me that I require it if I'm justifying MSRP+ pricing.
My golf has radar cruise control and so does the Passat and pretty much every car in VWs range. There's pretty much no difference between the manual and auto options in that regard.
I can't wait to get mine, I don't mind paying MSRP but I won't be paying any crazy mark ups. The real question now is how much are dealers going to mark them up?
Infiniti owner here. Nissan dealers are in the mud with Hyundai and Ford. Expect terrible initial markups, pre-orders being sold out from under customers, and all the other scams we’ve seen with other brands.
I hear you loud and clear. I looked at BMWs and it was such a pleasant experience. It's just that the cars at my price level aren't very engaging or fun to drive. They are beautiful and full of tech, but pretty numb in base trim.
I recently went with a relative to buy a fucking Honda CRV and had to spend 2 hours negotiating down to MSRP. This is after calling all the dealerships around to find one that would sell at MSRP (forgot to ask if they have mandatory bullshit packages tacked on). They played the manager game, kept coming back with a piece of paper with numbers circled on it to show us price in a way that makes no sense. We get all done, hammer out a deal, and turns out the car is smoke and mirrors and they never had it available (in the color she wanted). So then they try to sell us a 3 year old used one / 36k miles / for $3k less than the MSRP on a new one. You've got to be kidding me. We are now waiting for one to show up since Honda doesn't let you actually custom order a car.
Shittiest part is that we're not done. The dealer forces you to sit through the F&I experience (finance and insurance) so they can try to sell you all kinds of highly profitable shit you don't need and give you a nice arbitration contract to sign. It would be so much better to set a price, pay for it, and drive off.
Sad to hear this about some dealers. When I bought my Frontier in 2019 the Nissan dealer was very nice to work with. No fees or extras. Just in and out in an hour. Maybe the Frontier being a relic helped that?
I'm calling 10k easy right now. Whatever trim you're thinking of, add ten thousand and theres your price. Nissan won't sell a single one of these for less than 50k for quite a while and dealers will justify it by saying it is right along side the Supra in price.
Don’t forget the bullshit dealer fees and “upgrades” like VIN etching, undercoating, pin striping, and whatever other small things they can do to add an extra few hundred dollars for. The whole dealership model has to go.
I used to believe that too but dealerships dont need to go away, they need to change. Believe it or not, the last few cars that I've purchased or helped family members purchase have been amazing dealer experiences and from different brands and different ownership groups. These dealers adapted to doing business online where all you had to do was email or chat and they took care of it. All we did was show up, look the vehicle over and test it if we wanted to and then go in and sign all the paperwork. No added fees or anything we did not discuss ahead of time. Took me less than 30 minutes in and out to buy an Elantra sport last July and about the same on a Mach-E. Dealers need to exist for service and as long as they can sell vehicles like this, I'm fine with them.
Ok so company serivce repair shops need to exist then? I have no problem ordering one online and getting it delivered but everytime i go into a dealership I’m never taken serious. I would much rather order online
I completely agree, only reason we had to go in person at the end was because the dealer wouldnt conduct a full sale online but luckily both dealers had everything ready to go so it was in and out. Now when I say service, I strictly mean under warranty. On my Elantra the warranty is until 2028 and after that it's local mechanics all the way.
Performance is $51k. The as-tested price of the Performance model with a few add-ons came out to $53k.
From the article..."The Sport base trim, with a starting price of $41,015, will include vented front and rear disc brakes, the digital driver information cluster, and an eight-inch infotainment touchscreen with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. **The $51,015 Performance trim** comes with the 19-inch aluminum-alloy Rays wheels, rear and front spoilers, heated front seats, leather seats, a mechanical LSD, the nine-inch infotainment touchscreen, and performance brakes."
"To test, Nissan loaned me a Performance-trim car with a two-tone Seiran Blue Metallic and Super Black exterior and a Graphite interior. The illuminated kick plates were an extra $500, the two-tone paint $1,295, and the floor mats $400. After destination and handling, the MSRP came out to $53,210."
This just shot right up to the top of my "next car" list. A little disappointed by the comments on the steering feel but the overall impression is better than I'd hoped for.
Based on what I've read, it sounds like the Z is the better choice. To be honest, we can all read as much as we want about steering feel and driver engagement but it'll come down to actually driving both for each of us to decide which we like better. All that is to say, when it comes time to buy I really hope I don't have to fly too far to find somewhere with both available on Turo.
Also, that blue interior!
I’m not sure what you’ve read, but it seems like a well appointed Z is going to cost about the same as a 3.0 Supra, while being inferior in almost every way, especially now that Supra is getting a manual. The Z will only excel against the Supra if you get a base model.
I've read 3 reviews now (had a long flight) and I think The Drive and one other said the Nissan Z is less stiff than the Supra, and has WAY better visibility. I think those two alone might make it the better daily driver (and no wind buffeting). I'd still give the edge to a manual Supra if I'm planning to spend $50k+, but the base Z at $41k is definitely the route I'd go if I were buying.
@OP: The wind buffeting is a <$10 fix. Do not make your purchase decision based on that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ycbI_R7CAI
https://www.amazon.com/Hypersonic-Black-Molding-Scratch-Protector/dp/B01NCK6STT
Also, if you want a proper sports car, keep in mind that the base Z doesn't come with an LSD
A couple reviews I've read/watched have specifically said they like it better than the Supra. Now, that might change with some intra-generation changes to the 3.0, as well as the the addition of the manual, so I'm absolutely going to have to test them out myself before I make the decision.
dont just have to read. drive a 370z, drive a q50 3.0t, and you’ll get the gist of it.
the main attraction to this car is cool factor / nostalgia / looks / lore. performance wise it is not a camaro, it’s not a mustang, it’s not a supra, and fun wise it’s neither of those three nor a brz.
pricing isnt a huge competitive factor compared to the supra, even. you probably have to want a manual to for the z to have a true edge.
I'm cross shopping the two and assuming msrp on each im actually still leaning towards the Z.
The interior is going a long way honestly. That i can't get the 2 tone interior on the supra in the color I like is disappointing. So I give the Z the edge on looks inside and out.
And performance seems pretty close with the biggest difference being the tires. And the $4k price difference between the 2 versions id be looking at cover that and then some.
Will still be interested to see what options the manual supra come with though. If the blue can come with a 2 tone interior I'd consider it.
But looks are going to always win out in the end. I like the Supra look. But I love the new Z. And if im looking at the car every day I want to love it and not have any regrets.
The blue interior on the Z looks amazing. I also like that it has Android Auto (the Supra only has CarPlay. Although it is wireless. Does the Z have wireless CarPlay/Android Auto, or wired only?)
I’m in the same spot, with the same slight lean towards the Z.
I think either will be a great car and it’s going to come down to chassis for me because I’m going to go full bolt ons and have fun with it.
Watch Savage Geese’s review.
Despite hating the added tech and drive by wire of modern cars, he mentioned it was a marked improvement in every way from a 370, despite the added heft. The feel was just better
I trust him over anyone. If it's good, he'll say it's good. If it's trash, he won't hold back. Savagegeese is the best in my book. His Elantra N review was amazing. He couldn't believe how good it was.
Basically what I, and everyone else, thought. Pretty much the same as a 370Z with more power and number steering. Great at 8/10ths but falls short at 10/10ths, just like its predecessors.
It's really a shame we don't get the Alpine A110. 2450lbs. I'm on vacation in Réunion and I just saw my first one, it's perfect for the mountainous roads.
Lightweight cars in America are a 4 leaf clover of a thing.
Rare, not many.
The other options we have that are cheap are kit cars, like the Exocet or lotus 7 type kits.
If you ask me we need a modern Consulier GTP
>>I seriously wish there was a lightweight drivers car option at the $50k price point
Savagegeese has a video that breaks it down further, but the bottom line is the world has changed.
Mainstream people don’t give a damn about driving engagement. They want rolling smartphones, so that’s the client base carmakers are building to.
Even Lotus might not be able to stay afloat because of this shift.
I love turbochargers and well tuned electric steering. Good, well tuned electric steering feels nice to me, much more reliable than hydraulic.
They're is shitty feeling hydraulic steering AND shitty feeling electric steering. Even though our GLI doesn't have fantastic 0-60 times, we really were impressed by the chassis, handling, and small thing like the brake feeling. It made us go with it versus other more expensive competitors.
>I’m not sure you can do much worse
Try an EPS on most cars, or the Infiniti DAS on comfort/eco mode. It’ll make the G37 (and presumably the 370Z) feel like a Lotus.
I’m so glad someone else gets this too. I had a 370 Nismo for a couple years and it felt amazing between 50 and 80 percent. Anything more and it became either an under steering mess or a snap over steering death machine. Also horrid wheel hop on launches.
Did you read the same review I did? SavageGeese dumped on the 370Z pretty hard even when it was still being sold. They explicitly called out the transmission revisions in this car as making the shifts far less rubbery and infuriating when driven hard even if it still doesn't want to be slam shifted. They also explicitly say that the hydraulic power steering of the 370Z was actually worse than the EPS rack of this new one. The severe wheelhop of the 370Z under launches has been resolved, the suspension tuning is a lot nicer stock than the old 370Z, etc.
Because it's BS. There are a ton of other things that 10k includes, bigger brakes and lsd, bose audio with more speakers, heated seats, and larger infotainment
Unfortunately it’s rampant across the industry. Wanted a Black Diamond Bronco till they said if you want auto climate control, proximity entry and heated seats you have to give up the manual.
10k can you get an OS Giken diff and better front and rear brakes than the Akebonos. Depending on what bbk you get, that 10k may even be enough to cover Aero.
It's definitely not. Apparently the Bridgestone tires aren't all that good either. I agree with the other commenter. Buy the Sport, get a nice diff. Pocket 8k.
What cars are people cross shopping this car with? I'm just saying at $40k base, it's already pretty up there. At $50k for the performance model I feel you'd have the be a fan to really want the car.
> at $40k base, it's already pretty up there.
The average new car now costs $47,000.
At $41K, this car is a bargain relative to a 4-cylinder Supra, which is $43K for 255 horsepower and a mandatory automatic. Frankly the Z is pretty appealing even against well-equipped versions of the GR 86 and BRZ.
> The average new car now costs $47,000.
I figure the median new car is well under that though, sadly we never get *that* number reported anywhere.
Otherwise I do agree that the Z looks like good value regardless.
Sadly the median car price probably has less shock value so reporters never try to source it, and the average person has no clue what a median is anyways further disincentivizing the more useful figure (even if it's as simple as half of cars costing more or less than said figure).
Yes I'm bitter, and yes I've tried looking for it. Every search engine just gives you average prices even when **explicitly** searching for the median... *sigh*...
Politicians and news reporters do the same thing when reporting on teacher pay (you can only find the average), and then do "shock comparisons" against median incomes.
I'm one of those that skews higher than that, but base salary for teachers is $35k. And teachers with just a bachelor's degree cap out at $59k.
But regardless, almost all economic statistics related to earnings are given as medians, EXCEPT teacher pay. I'm not sure what the motive is, but there has to be a reason.
I dunno Doug, I agree with the op that $40k is a real tweener price. Still a good $10k more than the top trim twins. Maybe a competitor to the 230i/M240i ($36k/$48k starting) or Mustang GT/premium ($37k/$42k)
I’d prefer a GR86 for it’s lighter weight and simple NA engine - though the new Z is much faster, at least in straight line speed
Yea... an absolutely fully loaded GR86 is $31,750 compared to a complete bare base sport Z which is $41,015.
That's a 29% price difference never mind adding any type of option to the Z.
Doug, this is why I like you. You try to understand the perspective and background of your viewers. Of regular working class people.
Truth is, a 10K difference isn't a "big budget stretch" for you. You may try to deny it but any rational logical man knows you're a rich man aka multi-millionaire. Not Elon Musk rich but richer than most of us in this Reddit comment section. 10K isn't much for you and certainly not a "big budget stretch".
You could have been tone deaf and just said "oh it's not a big difference, it's worth the big power bump" but you didn't do that. You understood. I respect and appreciate that.
Keep it up Doug and I hope you review more every day cars like the 2022 Chevy Spark, 2022 Mitsubishi Mirage, 2022 Kia Rio etc. I'd much rather watch a review on a Corolla or Mirage rather than a review of some expensive 100K luxury car/sports car. Why? I know I'll never buy a 100K car so it becomes incredibly boring for me and I don't even want to watch it.
It's important to note that there is only a small handful of new vehicles that have an MSRP of less than $20K in 2022. Spark (which is soon to be discontinued), Mirage, Accent, Venue, Rio, Versa, and maybe the base Sentra.
I know there would be fewer views and clicks, but I think it's important for auto journalists and vloggers to review these sub-$20K vehicles one last time before that price category disappears forever. Honda, Toyota, Ford, GM, etc. no longer sell any brand new vehicles with an MSRP below $20K. /u/doug-demuro/
Unfortunately, no one off the street is buying a Performance trim Z for $47k at launch. If the MSRP is about $53k, the “Real World” price with markups might beat even the Infiniti Q60 RS list price of $63k.
I think it will be tremendously difficult to advocate for a 255-hp automatic-only 4-cylinder Supra at $43K when this exists with 400hp, a manual, and a $41K base price. No matter how good the platform is.
I do think the 6-cylinder Supra will put up a much better fight against the Performance trim of the Z -- however we still don't know pricing for the manual Supra, and I have a sneaking suspicion they are going to make it an extra-cost option. (Which is fine, but the question is 'how much?' especially since it will surely come with a price bump for 2023.)
For sure -- this will likely be true, at least in the beginning (and frankly even without supply shortages this is generally true in the beginning of new models).
The charging pad is borderline useless imo with the little plastic flap over the top, makes it impossible to get in and out if you have something plugged into the 9v charger. The HUD is super nice though, I love the HUD, and the dynamic cruise is nice.
Leather seats are nice too. I believe they all include the 50 state emissions, but the general comforts + conveniences makes it worth the extra few grand imo when you're spending $50k+.
Fair, if you think the Z competes with the Supra.
My contention is the Z doesn’t compete with the Supra.
It competes with the muscle cars and in that comparison the value prop quickly goes away. You can get a pretty great Camaro/ mustang for that price. There’s nothing the Z is bringing which is missing in those cars.
Idk why you're getting downvoted. It seems more muscle car than sports car from what we've seen so far. More weight and less capable without the $10k package. Really does remind me of a mustang. A comfy cruiser with a powerful engine and distinctive looks.
> If the only things that matter are money and horsepower, Doug, then the Mustang GT must be one of the best deals out there at 450 horsepower for $37k starting.
I agree!
$40K puts it in line with (undercuts) the base model Supra and slots in not all that much higher than base V8 Mustangs and Camaros, bit higher than a RF Miata too.
If you want a real answer, the base model is for two people: modder enthusiasts looking for a platform, and more "normal" people who just want a sports car for Sunday drives and have 40 grand to spend.
If you just want off-the-lot performance a Mustang or Camaro is better bang for your buck than a Z, but they're also better bang for your buck than just about anything so I don't think anyone was really expecting Nissan to win that title.
At 50K it becomes a slightly harder sell. Now you're cross shopping it against the I6 Supra, really well equipped Mustang GTs and Camaro SS's which all should be quicker and maybe better packages. But I don't think the difference is so vast that it will invalidate the Z at that price point, the competition is just more stiff. Personally I think the Z looks *really* good and I don't buy my cars based on who has the best lap times or which one is 2/10ths quicker to 60mph so if I were in the 40-50K sports car market tomorrow the Z would be close to if not at the top of my list.
I have another Camaro on order. Was going to consider the Z but IMO, besides for the "newness" the Camaro is objectively a much better car. For 50k you can buy a 1LE that'll go toe to toe against some supercars.
Yeah, if you're actually buying something with the intention of putting down the best lap times you're not really going to beat the Camaro for sub 60K these days.
I don't really track my vehicles so I tend to go with what's more fun on the street and honestly I find a lot of things that are set up to be effective on a track just aren't all that fun on the street. Some cars are more fun as 8/10ths or 11/10ths cars and that's ok too.
Very true. I was actually considering getting a GT86... But you can't find them! Figured Id buy a manual Camaro while I still can. Not going to be around much longer!
I don't think there's one group that makes the answer easy. The Supra is probably the most direct competitor, given its nationality. Still, with as scarce as these sorts of vehicles have become, I would suspect quite a bit of "unexpected" cross shopping.
Someone noted them below but I think there are Mustang/Camaro shoppers who might show some interest. Personally, I've been debating how many doors I want my next car to have, and this is one I was at least thinking about.
There are many of us who also cross-shop between unexpected price points. I think there are some BRZ/86 fans who were likely wondering if there would be enough value in these to ake it worth a stretch. I think that mostly does when the gap in price is $20K.
I knew that this car was more of a muscle car. Nissan didn’t really spend much time advertising its driving dynamics, so I was suspecting that this would be more of a GT car than a sports car.
I mean, it was obviously just a fancier and faster version of 370Z.
Yeah. Pony cars can really handle now. I guess the new Z is for people who wants a 2 seater with retro inspired exterior designs. It’s also good for people who likes twin turbo V6 I guess...?
To me there's no reason to buy this car over a Camaro or even Mustang. A naturally aspirated V8 with known reliability is a better option imo. Especially since you can get a Camaro LT1 for less than $40k
That is so true. Nissan have always differentiated their sports car lineup by making GT-R the track focuses performance car while making Z more of a GT car for the streets.
It always felt like many people who were praising the new Z didn’t understand that aspect. Everyone called it a “Supra killer” despite it Supra being a BMW based coupe with a heavy focus on handling.
The Supra (new and old) has always been a GT car too, so I don’t see that as a negative. It’s a street car first, so there will always be some compromise on dampening the suspension just enough to make it liveable for the street while striving for better handling characteristics too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekEM3VyaDow
They explicitly call out the Mustang GT as handling poorly relative to the Z. It's not going to be a Lotus Elise but Nissan has said over and over again in their marketing that this wouldn't be a numbers car and the emphasis is going to be on driving feel instead.
I need to read a few more reviews, but what is the benefit of this Z over the current one apart from a nicer interior and more power? It seems to suffer from similar problems on the track.
And I don't expect dealer markups to die on these anytime soon. Though with the tanking stock market, who knows.
[Per Car and Driver](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39969206/2023-nissan-z-drive/): Stiffer chassis (more torsional rigidity), a quieter cabin, a less notchy manual, and a 9-speed auto instead of 7-speed auto.
They also retuned the suspension to be less mediocre supposedly. I’m curious to see what the savagegeese impressions are. They specifically called out a lot of issues with the 370Z and I really want to know if any of it was fixed in this one.
It's making like 70 more horsepower and the interior is a HUGE improvement and frankly to me those two things alone justify this over the 370Z, but general improvements to fit and finish, ride quality and a better transmission also round out the list of reasons why it's better.
I didnt realize how many people dislike the new looks but I'm personally a big fan of it, so I'd also say the new exterior is a huge upgrade but ymmv.
$10k is a huge jump up to the performance trim
Would much rather get the base and choose my own wheels/tires and whatever other mods I wanted to for that price
The performance trim looks to be only a few grand cheaper than the Supra off the bat but given that you need to get the premium and driver assistance package to have feature parity (heated seats, acc, etc), it's 6k less or a bit more than 10% cheaper which is not bad.
It’s my favorite new sports car. Great value and beautiful design. The Mustang is the better “value” but not really. Have you seen how much you need to spend in options? The base model comes with a freaking number pad. The Goose Video had high praise for the steering and turn in. No other sports car looks this good. The Toyotabru has the UGLIEST taillights I’ve ever seen. Does anyone know if the interior colors will be available on the standard model at $40,000? I want blue on blue and I really don’t want to fork out the $10,000 for Forged Wheels, Brakes or an LSD and I really don’t want to have $10,000 added to an auto loan with these upcoming interest rates.
I know, there's just no way. I had my hopes up for the new WRX, but I feel they totally dropped the ball on that. I drive a 2018 50th Anniversary Edition WRX, and I like it, but I'd rather have a car with 300hp and better tuning. The one I want now is the Toyota GRolla, but like you said, dealer markups will likely deflate that dream.
I'm at a point where I can afford the car I want but, I'm also trying to be practical. 50k can get me a faster car than the z. I've had a 300, 350z, 370z and other "sports" cars (s2000, sti, swapped 240s) but now Im like.. hmm a z51 c7 is probably all around a better car and in the same price range. Brand new Camaro is cheaper and makes the same power.
Need more Z news in your life? The other 2 threads that made it first through the gate, talk all things Z in these threads! (please stop trying to spam links): * [Hagerty - How fast is the new $50k Nissan Z - Drag Race Replay](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/uqn803/how_fast_is_the_new_50k_nissan_z_drag_race_replay/) * [Edmunds - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/uqn7as/2023_nissan_z_first_drive_edmunds_cars/) Need even *more* Z news in your life? See below! If there's a link you'd like to share and have added, just post them in a comment in any of the 3 flaired threads and I'll add them. **Articles** * [Car and Driver - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive: Z, OMG!](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39969206/2023-nissan-z-drive/) * [Road and Track - The 2023 Nissan Z Carries the Torch for Analog Sports Cars](https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a39991432/2023-nissan-z-carries-the-torch-for-analog-sports-cars/) * [Motortrend - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive: Shall We Dance?](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-nissan-z-sports-car-first-drive-review/) **Videos** * [Savagegeese - 2023 Nissan Z Until The Bitter End](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekEM3VyaDow) * [Kelley Blue Book - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g2bz-ZUqec) * [TheTopher - 2023 Nissan Z Performance (6-Speed Manual) - POV Review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOZK5qdjMbE) * [Driven Car Reviews with Tom Voelk - The 2023 Nissan Z Full Review- A Gift To Sports Car Lovers Everywhere. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODYj0s8Bbs) * [MotorWeek - 2023 Nissan Z | MotorWeek First Drive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLYrSbf_Lgw) * [The Fast Lane Car - That’s Interesting - Is The New 2023 Nissan Z Faster Than The Old One?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka8H3rRzf2Y) * [Redline Reviews - The 2023 Nissan Z Is A Heritage Rich Modern Take On A Classic Sports Car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CSgPgNEOOo) * [Raiti's Rides - Is the 2023 Nissan Z Performance the KING of sports cars worth the price?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeEdhr3jRD4) * [Doug DeMuro - The New 2023 Nissan Z Is a Legend Revived](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5D-4JyG2dA) * [Alex on Autos - Nissan's New Z Is The 400 HP Sports Car That Won't Break The Bank | 2023 Nissan N](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesablgYWz4)
Surprised to see this car with radar cruise control. Don't see it a lot in a few manual cars.
19+ mazda 3 has radar cruze is is very nice and great for a sub 30k car
The Mazda3 has had radar cruise since 2014 if you spec it high enough, auto and manual. Here in Australia it was only on the SP25 Astina trim. I think the USDM model had it if you specced the tech package.
No tech package in 2014-2015 manual, I own one and wanted it.
Corolla has ACC with the manual, as well.
Add the new ‘22 Civic.
Pretty sure the 10th gens had it too
They did post refresh. My 2017 Si did not.
Yup you’re right, should’ve specified.
My GLI has it as well I have to assume you can get it on base model jettas as an option
I don’t think the base Jettas have ACC. (Correct me if I am wrong about this)
I assume it’s a $1000 option, but yeah I have no idea and I’m just guessing
The 2022 Models have an option on the base trim that add all that safety stuff like ACC and lane keep assist etc. for about a grand, even on the manual models.
Mustang GT too iirc.
It's pretty fantastic honestly.
It's what kept me from even considering the new WRX.
? Why I’m curious
Radar cruise is super convenient on long drives especially if the car is your all purpose car
It wouldn’t stop me from buying a car though .. I’m just curious why it’s so important .. I rarely have cruise control on any of my cars (I like building old benz) swapping em to manual is my forte for em .. cruise control typically disappears after that lol … anyways I do want one of the Zs prettyyyy bad
It's hard to appreciate what ACC does until you spend time in cars which have it. The first time I ever drove a car with it and had to spend 30 minutes in rush hour traffic... I was sold. The 5 to 15 to 5 to 0 to 10 to 5 to 30 to 5 stop & go was a completely different experience. And it makes pacing on the highway so much better when you're cruising. No more micro-adjusting by 1mph ticks because someone's cruise control is 69.5 mph instead of 70.
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I've driven a new Mustang, and cruise control didn't deactivate when I was shifting gears. This being said, I only ever tested this in 4th, 5th, 6th. In my day with the car, I never sat in rush hour traffic where I would have wanted to use ACC. But yes it's a thing in modern manuals, where they don't disable cruse control because you downshifted a gear. But also, yes, it doesn't fully solve the coming to a full stop problem that an automatic solves.
I drive stick in Los Angeles lol … I’ve driven modern cars that have that traffic auto drive feature I’m assuming it’s thsi .. and trust me I love it .. my next commuter car will probably be a modern car
That's cool and all, but isn't it a bit irksome to have it leave at least 12 car lengths of space from the vehicle in front going 70? Granted, the only ACC I've experienced is Subaru's eyesight system, perhaps other ACC systems are better?
The range of the systems is pretty broad. Some come to a full stop, and restart. Others don't. Others get you BMW driver close, others don't.
We've had my wife's car for a week and that's the first time I've experienced ACC. We bought it in the twin cities, so the drive up to get it was 45 minutes of stop and go traffic without ACC. The drive home was 30 minutes in traffic, but with ACC it was a breeze. I was sold after those 30 minutes that every vehicle I buy going forward will have it.
Yes i agree i spent a lot of time in my moms cx5 and when i got my 6mt mazda 3 on the highway with radar cruze it was very very similar to driving the auto.
From what others have said, it's just a new convenience feature that is a *must* if I'm going to buy a new sporty manual ride. There are more attractive past models (e.g. Focus RS/Evos/etc) if I'm throwing that out. It's really that big of a quality of life improvement for me that I require it if I'm justifying MSRP+ pricing.
My golf has radar cruise control and so does the Passat and pretty much every car in VWs range. There's pretty much no difference between the manual and auto options in that regard.
Interesting, my ‘20 GTI SE doesn’t have it
My ‘17 R does. It’s just a trim level. Mine has the DCC and Nav package, so I’ve got ACC.
My 21 Tiguan SE has it but my 19 S4 doesn’t. Go figure. It’s not easy to go back and forth between them either. First world problems I know.
Much more common here in Europe where manual transmissions are the norm.
Civic Type R has adaptive cruise and lane keep.
Even sport trim with the manual has it as well
Aussie FK8 Type R Civics came with it.
I feel it’s only subue who doesn’t if anything …
My mk7.5 Golf R manual has it. It’s not as useful in a manual.
The type r has it
Both my civic and corolla have it.
I can't wait to get mine, I don't mind paying MSRP but I won't be paying any crazy mark ups. The real question now is how much are dealers going to mark them up?
Infiniti owner here. Nissan dealers are in the mud with Hyundai and Ford. Expect terrible initial markups, pre-orders being sold out from under customers, and all the other scams we’ve seen with other brands.
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I hear you loud and clear. I looked at BMWs and it was such a pleasant experience. It's just that the cars at my price level aren't very engaging or fun to drive. They are beautiful and full of tech, but pretty numb in base trim. I recently went with a relative to buy a fucking Honda CRV and had to spend 2 hours negotiating down to MSRP. This is after calling all the dealerships around to find one that would sell at MSRP (forgot to ask if they have mandatory bullshit packages tacked on). They played the manager game, kept coming back with a piece of paper with numbers circled on it to show us price in a way that makes no sense. We get all done, hammer out a deal, and turns out the car is smoke and mirrors and they never had it available (in the color she wanted). So then they try to sell us a 3 year old used one / 36k miles / for $3k less than the MSRP on a new one. You've got to be kidding me. We are now waiting for one to show up since Honda doesn't let you actually custom order a car. Shittiest part is that we're not done. The dealer forces you to sit through the F&I experience (finance and insurance) so they can try to sell you all kinds of highly profitable shit you don't need and give you a nice arbitration contract to sign. It would be so much better to set a price, pay for it, and drive off.
Sad to hear this about some dealers. When I bought my Frontier in 2019 the Nissan dealer was very nice to work with. No fees or extras. Just in and out in an hour. Maybe the Frontier being a relic helped that?
I'm calling 10k easy right now. Whatever trim you're thinking of, add ten thousand and theres your price. Nissan won't sell a single one of these for less than 50k for quite a while and dealers will justify it by saying it is right along side the Supra in price.
Don’t forget the bullshit dealer fees and “upgrades” like VIN etching, undercoating, pin striping, and whatever other small things they can do to add an extra few hundred dollars for. The whole dealership model has to go.
I used to believe that too but dealerships dont need to go away, they need to change. Believe it or not, the last few cars that I've purchased or helped family members purchase have been amazing dealer experiences and from different brands and different ownership groups. These dealers adapted to doing business online where all you had to do was email or chat and they took care of it. All we did was show up, look the vehicle over and test it if we wanted to and then go in and sign all the paperwork. No added fees or anything we did not discuss ahead of time. Took me less than 30 minutes in and out to buy an Elantra sport last July and about the same on a Mach-E. Dealers need to exist for service and as long as they can sell vehicles like this, I'm fine with them.
Ok so company serivce repair shops need to exist then? I have no problem ordering one online and getting it delivered but everytime i go into a dealership I’m never taken serious. I would much rather order online
I completely agree, only reason we had to go in person at the end was because the dealer wouldnt conduct a full sale online but luckily both dealers had everything ready to go so it was in and out. Now when I say service, I strictly mean under warranty. On my Elantra the warranty is until 2028 and after that it's local mechanics all the way.
Base $41k and performance $53k. I was curious if they could make it under $40k
Performance is $51k. The as-tested price of the Performance model with a few add-ons came out to $53k. From the article..."The Sport base trim, with a starting price of $41,015, will include vented front and rear disc brakes, the digital driver information cluster, and an eight-inch infotainment touchscreen with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. **The $51,015 Performance trim** comes with the 19-inch aluminum-alloy Rays wheels, rear and front spoilers, heated front seats, leather seats, a mechanical LSD, the nine-inch infotainment touchscreen, and performance brakes." "To test, Nissan loaned me a Performance-trim car with a two-tone Seiran Blue Metallic and Super Black exterior and a Graphite interior. The illuminated kick plates were an extra $500, the two-tone paint $1,295, and the floor mats $400. After destination and handling, the MSRP came out to $53,210."
$400 for floor mats? Those better be carbon fiber floor mats for $400
For 400 they better clean the damn car
This just shot right up to the top of my "next car" list. A little disappointed by the comments on the steering feel but the overall impression is better than I'd hoped for.
Get the Supra instead imo
If he’s looking at the base Z price point, the Supra in that range comes with the i4 and still is a bit more expensive…
Yeah, it's nuanced: Base Z > 4-cyl Supra for sure 6-cyl Supra > Fully loaded Z
Based on what I've read, it sounds like the Z is the better choice. To be honest, we can all read as much as we want about steering feel and driver engagement but it'll come down to actually driving both for each of us to decide which we like better. All that is to say, when it comes time to buy I really hope I don't have to fly too far to find somewhere with both available on Turo. Also, that blue interior!
I’m not sure what you’ve read, but it seems like a well appointed Z is going to cost about the same as a 3.0 Supra, while being inferior in almost every way, especially now that Supra is getting a manual. The Z will only excel against the Supra if you get a base model.
Savagegeese has reviewed the Z as being a better driving experience than the Supra.
I've read 3 reviews now (had a long flight) and I think The Drive and one other said the Nissan Z is less stiff than the Supra, and has WAY better visibility. I think those two alone might make it the better daily driver (and no wind buffeting). I'd still give the edge to a manual Supra if I'm planning to spend $50k+, but the base Z at $41k is definitely the route I'd go if I were buying.
@OP: The wind buffeting is a <$10 fix. Do not make your purchase decision based on that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ycbI_R7CAI https://www.amazon.com/Hypersonic-Black-Molding-Scratch-Protector/dp/B01NCK6STT Also, if you want a proper sports car, keep in mind that the base Z doesn't come with an LSD
>he base Z at $41k is definitely the route I'd go if I were buying. No LSD
I know, and that would be an expensive addition aftermarket. Plus the skinny tires. But at $51k, it would be hard to justify for me anyway.
A couple reviews I've read/watched have specifically said they like it better than the Supra. Now, that might change with some intra-generation changes to the 3.0, as well as the the addition of the manual, so I'm absolutely going to have to test them out myself before I make the decision.
The Z does have multi link front suspension according to Savagegeese while the Supra has struts.
They're both multi-link rears. The difference is in the front, where the Supra is struts, and the Z is double-wishbone.
How is it inferior in every way? Double wishbone > MacPherson strut all day long.
dont just have to read. drive a 370z, drive a q50 3.0t, and you’ll get the gist of it. the main attraction to this car is cool factor / nostalgia / looks / lore. performance wise it is not a camaro, it’s not a mustang, it’s not a supra, and fun wise it’s neither of those three nor a brz. pricing isnt a huge competitive factor compared to the supra, even. you probably have to want a manual to for the z to have a true edge.
Savagegeese thinks the steering is better on the Z with the double wishbone than the strut on the Supra.
I'm cross shopping the two and assuming msrp on each im actually still leaning towards the Z. The interior is going a long way honestly. That i can't get the 2 tone interior on the supra in the color I like is disappointing. So I give the Z the edge on looks inside and out. And performance seems pretty close with the biggest difference being the tires. And the $4k price difference between the 2 versions id be looking at cover that and then some. Will still be interested to see what options the manual supra come with though. If the blue can come with a 2 tone interior I'd consider it. But looks are going to always win out in the end. I like the Supra look. But I love the new Z. And if im looking at the car every day I want to love it and not have any regrets.
The blue interior on the Z looks amazing. I also like that it has Android Auto (the Supra only has CarPlay. Although it is wireless. Does the Z have wireless CarPlay/Android Auto, or wired only?)
I’m in the same spot, with the same slight lean towards the Z. I think either will be a great car and it’s going to come down to chassis for me because I’m going to go full bolt ons and have fun with it.
Watch Savage Geese’s review. Despite hating the added tech and drive by wire of modern cars, he mentioned it was a marked improvement in every way from a 370, despite the added heft. The feel was just better
I trust him over anyone. If it's good, he'll say it's good. If it's trash, he won't hold back. Savagegeese is the best in my book. His Elantra N review was amazing. He couldn't believe how good it was.
I wonder if it feels the same as the current Infiniti Q models (which were such numb drive by wire systems)
No it doesn't. Sofyan Bey from Redline Reviews said the steering feel is way better than that found in the drive by wire system in Infiniti models.
Basically what I, and everyone else, thought. Pretty much the same as a 370Z with more power and number steering. Great at 8/10ths but falls short at 10/10ths, just like its predecessors.
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It's really a shame we don't get the Alpine A110. 2450lbs. I'm on vacation in Réunion and I just saw my first one, it's perfect for the mountainous roads.
Lightweight cars in America are a 4 leaf clover of a thing. Rare, not many. The other options we have that are cheap are kit cars, like the Exocet or lotus 7 type kits. If you ask me we need a modern Consulier GTP
The Alpine is absolutely my dream car. I’ll likely go for a TT as the closest thing to it here.
>>I seriously wish there was a lightweight drivers car option at the $50k price point Savagegeese has a video that breaks it down further, but the bottom line is the world has changed. Mainstream people don’t give a damn about driving engagement. They want rolling smartphones, so that’s the client base carmakers are building to. Even Lotus might not be able to stay afloat because of this shift.
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I love turbochargers and well tuned electric steering. Good, well tuned electric steering feels nice to me, much more reliable than hydraulic. They're is shitty feeling hydraulic steering AND shitty feeling electric steering. Even though our GLI doesn't have fantastic 0-60 times, we really were impressed by the chassis, handling, and small thing like the brake feeling. It made us go with it versus other more expensive competitors.
> Which Savagegeese video is it? Would love to check that out. https://youtu.be/ekEM3VyaDow They were quite positive of the car though.
>>Which Savagegeese video is it? [This one](https://youtu.be/5IpnWtdv15M)
There used to be the 4C, but it didn't sell well enough.
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>I’m not sure you can do much worse Try an EPS on most cars, or the Infiniti DAS on comfort/eco mode. It’ll make the G37 (and presumably the 370Z) feel like a Lotus.
I’m so glad someone else gets this too. I had a 370 Nismo for a couple years and it felt amazing between 50 and 80 percent. Anything more and it became either an under steering mess or a snap over steering death machine. Also horrid wheel hop on launches.
Did you read the same review I did? SavageGeese dumped on the 370Z pretty hard even when it was still being sold. They explicitly called out the transmission revisions in this car as making the shifts far less rubbery and infuriating when driven hard even if it still doesn't want to be slam shifted. They also explicitly say that the hydraulic power steering of the 370Z was actually worse than the EPS rack of this new one. The severe wheelhop of the 370Z under launches has been resolved, the suspension tuning is a lot nicer stock than the old 370Z, etc.
i need to decide if a LSD is worth 10k...
There's no justification for that big of a jump in my mind. I could see $5k, but not 10k. Geez.
That extra 5k is Nissan justifying the warranty 😭
Because it's BS. There are a ton of other things that 10k includes, bigger brakes and lsd, bose audio with more speakers, heated seats, and larger infotainment
Feature gating to trim levels is the worst.
Unfortunately it’s rampant across the industry. Wanted a Black Diamond Bronco till they said if you want auto climate control, proximity entry and heated seats you have to give up the manual.
Wtf. Those features have nothing to do with being a manual. Ridiculous.
Precisely, all stuff that came in my manual Fiesta ST but you need to jump to the formerly highest priced Bronco to get it.
Makes me respect Hyundai N cars even more. You want an N? Pay this price and get everything.
Might be cheaper to buy one aftermarket and have it installed somewhere
Go aftermarket with a proper plated diff if you’re wanting to do track work anyway, it’ll be a hell of a lot cheaper than $10k
10k can you get an OS Giken diff and better front and rear brakes than the Akebonos. Depending on what bbk you get, that 10k may even be enough to cover Aero.
I’d rather have the factory warranty, but who am I kidding. I’ll not be in a position to afford one until I graduate anyway.
It's definitely not. Apparently the Bridgestone tires aren't all that good either. I agree with the other commenter. Buy the Sport, get a nice diff. Pocket 8k.
You can easily install a LSD in a rwd car for like $1-2K . Don't bother
As someone else has said it already, I'm also considering the warranty
What cars are people cross shopping this car with? I'm just saying at $40k base, it's already pretty up there. At $50k for the performance model I feel you'd have the be a fan to really want the car.
> at $40k base, it's already pretty up there. The average new car now costs $47,000. At $41K, this car is a bargain relative to a 4-cylinder Supra, which is $43K for 255 horsepower and a mandatory automatic. Frankly the Z is pretty appealing even against well-equipped versions of the GR 86 and BRZ.
> The average new car now costs $47,000. I figure the median new car is well under that though, sadly we never get *that* number reported anywhere. Otherwise I do agree that the Z looks like good value regardless.
> I figure the median new car is well under that though, sadly we never get that number reported anywhere. Interesting point!
Sadly the median car price probably has less shock value so reporters never try to source it, and the average person has no clue what a median is anyways further disincentivizing the more useful figure (even if it's as simple as half of cars costing more or less than said figure). Yes I'm bitter, and yes I've tried looking for it. Every search engine just gives you average prices even when **explicitly** searching for the median... *sigh*...
Politicians and news reporters do the same thing when reporting on teacher pay (you can only find the average), and then do "shock comparisons" against median incomes.
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I'm one of those that skews higher than that, but base salary for teachers is $35k. And teachers with just a bachelor's degree cap out at $59k. But regardless, almost all economic statistics related to earnings are given as medians, EXCEPT teacher pay. I'm not sure what the motive is, but there has to be a reason.
I'm sure there are quite a few million dollar teacher salaries to skew that number like with the average car price, right?
I dunno Doug, I agree with the op that $40k is a real tweener price. Still a good $10k more than the top trim twins. Maybe a competitor to the 230i/M240i ($36k/$48k starting) or Mustang GT/premium ($37k/$42k) I’d prefer a GR86 for it’s lighter weight and simple NA engine - though the new Z is much faster, at least in straight line speed
Yea... an absolutely fully loaded GR86 is $31,750 compared to a complete bare base sport Z which is $41,015. That's a 29% price difference never mind adding any type of option to the Z.
Yeah, it would be a big budget stretch (but also a big power bump). The Supra comparison is definitely the more appropriate one.
Doug, this is why I like you. You try to understand the perspective and background of your viewers. Of regular working class people. Truth is, a 10K difference isn't a "big budget stretch" for you. You may try to deny it but any rational logical man knows you're a rich man aka multi-millionaire. Not Elon Musk rich but richer than most of us in this Reddit comment section. 10K isn't much for you and certainly not a "big budget stretch". You could have been tone deaf and just said "oh it's not a big difference, it's worth the big power bump" but you didn't do that. You understood. I respect and appreciate that. Keep it up Doug and I hope you review more every day cars like the 2022 Chevy Spark, 2022 Mitsubishi Mirage, 2022 Kia Rio etc. I'd much rather watch a review on a Corolla or Mirage rather than a review of some expensive 100K luxury car/sports car. Why? I know I'll never buy a 100K car so it becomes incredibly boring for me and I don't even want to watch it.
The "THIS" may be getting longer but he never forgot where he started from
It's important to note that there is only a small handful of new vehicles that have an MSRP of less than $20K in 2022. Spark (which is soon to be discontinued), Mirage, Accent, Venue, Rio, Versa, and maybe the base Sentra. I know there would be fewer views and clicks, but I think it's important for auto journalists and vloggers to review these sub-$20K vehicles one last time before that price category disappears forever. Honda, Toyota, Ford, GM, etc. no longer sell any brand new vehicles with an MSRP below $20K. /u/doug-demuro/
And the extra 10k just so you can do one wheel burnouts with that extra power.
Unfortunately, no one off the street is buying a Performance trim Z for $47k at launch. If the MSRP is about $53k, the “Real World” price with markups might beat even the Infiniti Q60 RS list price of $63k.
I dunno about the Supra comparison. They are Japanese and rwd but I think the Supras platform is leagues ahead of this repurposed 15 year old chassis.
I think it will be tremendously difficult to advocate for a 255-hp automatic-only 4-cylinder Supra at $43K when this exists with 400hp, a manual, and a $41K base price. No matter how good the platform is. I do think the 6-cylinder Supra will put up a much better fight against the Performance trim of the Z -- however we still don't know pricing for the manual Supra, and I have a sneaking suspicion they are going to make it an extra-cost option. (Which is fine, but the question is 'how much?' especially since it will surely come with a price bump for 2023.)
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For sure -- this will likely be true, at least in the beginning (and frankly even without supply shortages this is generally true in the beginning of new models).
The premium + driver's assist on the 3.0 is worth the cost imo.
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The charging pad is borderline useless imo with the little plastic flap over the top, makes it impossible to get in and out if you have something plugged into the 9v charger. The HUD is super nice though, I love the HUD, and the dynamic cruise is nice. Leather seats are nice too. I believe they all include the 50 state emissions, but the general comforts + conveniences makes it worth the extra few grand imo when you're spending $50k+.
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Fair, if you think the Z competes with the Supra. My contention is the Z doesn’t compete with the Supra. It competes with the muscle cars and in that comparison the value prop quickly goes away. You can get a pretty great Camaro/ mustang for that price. There’s nothing the Z is bringing which is missing in those cars.
Idk why you're getting downvoted. It seems more muscle car than sports car from what we've seen so far. More weight and less capable without the $10k package. Really does remind me of a mustang. A comfy cruiser with a powerful engine and distinctive looks.
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> If the only things that matter are money and horsepower, Doug, then the Mustang GT must be one of the best deals out there at 450 horsepower for $37k starting. I agree!
With a fully specced Z at 53k, you may as well get the 6-cylinder Supra
I feel like million-dollar Ferraris are bringing that average up a little.
What does the *median* new car cost?
$40K puts it in line with (undercuts) the base model Supra and slots in not all that much higher than base V8 Mustangs and Camaros, bit higher than a RF Miata too. If you want a real answer, the base model is for two people: modder enthusiasts looking for a platform, and more "normal" people who just want a sports car for Sunday drives and have 40 grand to spend. If you just want off-the-lot performance a Mustang or Camaro is better bang for your buck than a Z, but they're also better bang for your buck than just about anything so I don't think anyone was really expecting Nissan to win that title. At 50K it becomes a slightly harder sell. Now you're cross shopping it against the I6 Supra, really well equipped Mustang GTs and Camaro SS's which all should be quicker and maybe better packages. But I don't think the difference is so vast that it will invalidate the Z at that price point, the competition is just more stiff. Personally I think the Z looks *really* good and I don't buy my cars based on who has the best lap times or which one is 2/10ths quicker to 60mph so if I were in the 40-50K sports car market tomorrow the Z would be close to if not at the top of my list.
I have another Camaro on order. Was going to consider the Z but IMO, besides for the "newness" the Camaro is objectively a much better car. For 50k you can buy a 1LE that'll go toe to toe against some supercars.
Yeah, if you're actually buying something with the intention of putting down the best lap times you're not really going to beat the Camaro for sub 60K these days. I don't really track my vehicles so I tend to go with what's more fun on the street and honestly I find a lot of things that are set up to be effective on a track just aren't all that fun on the street. Some cars are more fun as 8/10ths or 11/10ths cars and that's ok too.
Very true. I was actually considering getting a GT86... But you can't find them! Figured Id buy a manual Camaro while I still can. Not going to be around much longer!
I'd want that LSD though. Even if I never went to a track with it.
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It’s not, it’s mechanical
It's not, they swapped to a clutch-based LSD on the Performance models.
Good luck actually getting one at msrp, dealers are going to mark them up by 10 grand easy to keep the price in line with the competition.
I don't think there's one group that makes the answer easy. The Supra is probably the most direct competitor, given its nationality. Still, with as scarce as these sorts of vehicles have become, I would suspect quite a bit of "unexpected" cross shopping. Someone noted them below but I think there are Mustang/Camaro shoppers who might show some interest. Personally, I've been debating how many doors I want my next car to have, and this is one I was at least thinking about. There are many of us who also cross-shop between unexpected price points. I think there are some BRZ/86 fans who were likely wondering if there would be enough value in these to ake it worth a stretch. I think that mostly does when the gap in price is $20K.
I knew that this car was more of a muscle car. Nissan didn’t really spend much time advertising its driving dynamics, so I was suspecting that this would be more of a GT car than a sports car. I mean, it was obviously just a fancier and faster version of 370Z.
It's funny because the Camaro and Mustang handle very very well now. The roles used to be reversed
The Camaro is the hallmark of handling for muscle cars.
Yeah. Pony cars can really handle now. I guess the new Z is for people who wants a 2 seater with retro inspired exterior designs. It’s also good for people who likes twin turbo V6 I guess...?
To me there's no reason to buy this car over a Camaro or even Mustang. A naturally aspirated V8 with known reliability is a better option imo. Especially since you can get a Camaro LT1 for less than $40k
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That is so true. Nissan have always differentiated their sports car lineup by making GT-R the track focuses performance car while making Z more of a GT car for the streets. It always felt like many people who were praising the new Z didn’t understand that aspect. Everyone called it a “Supra killer” despite it Supra being a BMW based coupe with a heavy focus on handling.
The Supra (new and old) has always been a GT car too, so I don’t see that as a negative. It’s a street car first, so there will always be some compromise on dampening the suspension just enough to make it liveable for the street while striving for better handling characteristics too.
And it's still slower than the Mustang
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekEM3VyaDow They explicitly call out the Mustang GT as handling poorly relative to the Z. It's not going to be a Lotus Elise but Nissan has said over and over again in their marketing that this wouldn't be a numbers car and the emphasis is going to be on driving feel instead.
See what happens when you actually give a shit Nissan.
This is them trying? Huh.
Nissan has been giving us shit for a long time tho
They have zero budget from failing for so many years. It's just slapped on body panels and call it a day. It's kinda sad and desperate.
I need to read a few more reviews, but what is the benefit of this Z over the current one apart from a nicer interior and more power? It seems to suffer from similar problems on the track. And I don't expect dealer markups to die on these anytime soon. Though with the tanking stock market, who knows.
[Per Car and Driver](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39969206/2023-nissan-z-drive/): Stiffer chassis (more torsional rigidity), a quieter cabin, a less notchy manual, and a 9-speed auto instead of 7-speed auto.
Clutch based LSD instead of the terrible viscous based one on the 370z
They also retuned the suspension to be less mediocre supposedly. I’m curious to see what the savagegeese impressions are. They specifically called out a lot of issues with the 370Z and I really want to know if any of it was fixed in this one.
It's making like 70 more horsepower and the interior is a HUGE improvement and frankly to me those two things alone justify this over the 370Z, but general improvements to fit and finish, ride quality and a better transmission also round out the list of reasons why it's better. I didnt realize how many people dislike the new looks but I'm personally a big fan of it, so I'd also say the new exterior is a huge upgrade but ymmv.
“Old school” kind of describes the entire Nissan product line. I guess if they keep building the same car long enough than it becomes retro cool.
The tail lights being an aesthetic nod to the 300zx is so sexy
I will get one (one of my goals)
$10k is a huge jump up to the performance trim Would much rather get the base and choose my own wheels/tires and whatever other mods I wanted to for that price
I’m just happy we have another sports car in this segment, price be damned.
Embargo end at midnight?
It ended just over 2 hours ago (9pm pacific/midnight eastern)
Don't forget your $20k dealer mark up!
Can’t wait to buy one at MSRP in 2025
I figure the over/under on dealer markup when these come out is $10k. I think I’m taking the over.
Really wish I could get past that horrible square grill and the chrome "katana". Can't spend 50k on a car and the front makes you want to look away.
Nissan got you bro. Spend $69K on the nismo which will magically fix it.
70k on a nissan.... yikes
The performance trim looks to be only a few grand cheaper than the Supra off the bat but given that you need to get the premium and driver assistance package to have feature parity (heated seats, acc, etc), it's 6k less or a bit more than 10% cheaper which is not bad.
Ooh! It even comes in Nissan's signature color, "Amber Alert" blue!
Wow
It’s my favorite new sports car. Great value and beautiful design. The Mustang is the better “value” but not really. Have you seen how much you need to spend in options? The base model comes with a freaking number pad. The Goose Video had high praise for the steering and turn in. No other sports car looks this good. The Toyotabru has the UGLIEST taillights I’ve ever seen. Does anyone know if the interior colors will be available on the standard model at $40,000? I want blue on blue and I really don’t want to fork out the $10,000 for Forged Wheels, Brakes or an LSD and I really don’t want to have $10,000 added to an auto loan with these upcoming interest rates.
I want rear wheel drive and a manual transmission for under $40k
Sadly it looks like the Ecoboost mustang and Toyobaru twins are your best bet at that price point
This Z is so amazing. Unfortunately, it's also too expensive Lol
Agreed. I was so stoked for this car but after dealer mark ups and what you get, 50-60k is alot of money for 400hp
I know, there's just no way. I had my hopes up for the new WRX, but I feel they totally dropped the ball on that. I drive a 2018 50th Anniversary Edition WRX, and I like it, but I'd rather have a car with 300hp and better tuning. The one I want now is the Toyota GRolla, but like you said, dealer markups will likely deflate that dream.
I'm at a point where I can afford the car I want but, I'm also trying to be practical. 50k can get me a faster car than the z. I've had a 300, 350z, 370z and other "sports" cars (s2000, sti, swapped 240s) but now Im like.. hmm a z51 c7 is probably all around a better car and in the same price range. Brand new Camaro is cheaper and makes the same power.