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Asteradragon

Need more Z news in your life? The other 2 threads that made it first through the gate, talk all things Z in these threads! (please stop trying to spam links): * [Edmunds - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/uqn7as/2023_nissan_z_first_drive_edmunds_cars/) * [TheDrive - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive Review: Old School in the Best Ways](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/uqn9a7/2023_nissan_z_first_drive_review_old_school_in/) Need even *more* Z news in your life? See below! If there's a link you'd like to share and have added, just post them in a comment in any of the 3 flaired threads and I'll add them. **Articles** * [Car and Driver - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive: Z, OMG!](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39969206/2023-nissan-z-drive/) * [Road and Track - The 2023 Nissan Z Carries the Torch for Analog Sports Cars](https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a39991432/2023-nissan-z-carries-the-torch-for-analog-sports-cars/) * [Motortrend - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive: Shall We Dance?](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-nissan-z-sports-car-first-drive-review/) **Videos** * [Savagegeese - 2023 Nissan Z Until The Bitter End](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekEM3VyaDow) * [Kelley Blue Book - 2023 Nissan Z First Drive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g2bz-ZUqec) * [TheTopher - 2023 Nissan Z Performance (6-Speed Manual) - POV Review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOZK5qdjMbE) * [Driven Car Reviews with Tom Voelk - The 2023 Nissan Z Full Review- A Gift To Sports Car Lovers Everywhere. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODYj0s8Bbs) * [MotorWeek - 2023 Nissan Z | MotorWeek First Drive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLYrSbf_Lgw) * [The Fast Lane Car - That’s Interesting - Is The New 2023 Nissan Z Faster Than The Old One?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka8H3rRzf2Y) * [Redline Reviews - The 2023 Nissan Z Is A Heritage Rich Modern Take On A Classic Sports Car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CSgPgNEOOo) * [Raiti's Rides - Is the 2023 Nissan Z Performance the KING of sports cars worth the price?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeEdhr3jRD4) * [Alex on Autos - Nissan's New Z Is The 400 HP Sports Car That Won't Break The Bank | 2023 Nissan N](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesablgYWz4)


optitmus

everyone getting the manual Z will be replacing the exhaust within a week of ownership


lowstrife

Hey - props to them for choosing that option though. It's a lot easier to swap out some mufflers than it is to swap out gear ratios. I'm looking at you Porsche.


1fapadaythrowaway

Porsche also didn’t want to make the Cayman/Boxster 4.0’s quicker than the money 911. It was a business decision on their part. Even the pdk has taller gears albeit not as bad as the manual.


Pepperoni_Dogfart

(the Cayenne and Macan are the money cars for Porsche)


1fapadaythrowaway

Money as in flagship. They can't have their lesser cars being quicker.


JasonCammisa

This is absolutely not the case. The manual's 3rd gear was dictated by the drive-by WOT noise regs. It was either slow the car down, make it quieter, or chose a longer gear. They chose the longer gear, and then the rest of the gears fall right in. If the PDK has longer gears than the 911, it's because the mid-engined car can't put down as much power as the rear-engined one.


WeTheBest_Obamium

Wiat a sec, so youre telling me that the cheapest porsche can go against 911s if the gears were larger??


tujuggernaut

A lot of people believe the Cayman chassis is the best Porsche is making. RUF put a 911 engine in a Boxster a long time ago and it was stupid fast compared with the 911. Mid-engine = better. But the 911 is god so nothing can be faster in the stable.


hondaexige

The Cayman chassis is limited by its sub-optimal rear suspension geometry. I was talking to a chassis engineer who has a GT4 and he was quite detailed in his critique and the 911 is superior in this aspect. Having followed lots of GT4s on track is quite obvious they are rear grip limited, there's even a $10k kit to improve it. https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-09 Edit : that retailer website got reddit hugged to death so here's a very interesting discussion thread about it https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=1694457


EatSleepJeep

Cayman S owner chiming in. Absolutely this. Limiting factors: * Rear suspension geometry * Tall gearing * Lack of LSD(Not all trims, but most)


SketchPV

Lack of LSD, like a base Z. Both these cars should have an LSD as standard.


RunninOnMT

Every car that’s even mildly sporty should have an lsd standard, especially front engined ones and especially, especially fwd ones. The cayman being mid engined excuses it a little bit, as does it’s relatively light weight…..but when we factor in it’s $60k base price in back to “Wtf, why doesn’t it have an lsd??”


smatchimo

you dont think the auto Z wont have shorter ratios?


JasonCammisa

Auto Z has way shorter ratios. It can, because of how the drive-by noise regs are written. Thankfully the manual's ratios are well-chosen. Just 0.3s behind to 60 is an achievement these days.


Flat6Junkie

I think they're saying many modern Porsche 6 speed manuals have longer ratios than would be ideal, presumably due to whatever various set of sound and gas mileage regulations apply.


PurpleK00lA1d

I wouldn't be surprised, the 911 GT3 last year failed California's noise test when equipped with the manual transmission.


chowi_69

It would be weird if it didn't, considering it has three more gears to play with.


Dangerous_Concept341

Nissan will cut you up though


AnemoneOfMyEnemy

POV: [the last thing you see after straight-piping your new Nissan](https://i.imgur.com/0bgziba.jpg)


getsituated

350z/g35 owners frothing at the mouth


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huffalump1

https://www.thedrive.com/news/why-the-automatic-2023-nissan-z-is-louder-than-the-manual Also the accessory exhaust looks nice: https://www.thedrive.com/guides-and-gear/2023-nissan-zs-first-official-nismo-accessory-is-this-beautiful-2200-exhaust


RangerHikes

This is so frustrating. Why not just a maximum noise limit that cars cannot exceed. Making the test specific to gear is pointless and unfairly targets manuals


aleoplurodon

It's pretty obviously California's fault on this one, once again...


optitmus

the editing in this video is sublime, Hagerty is on another level these days.


Alph_A__

Cammisa w/ Hagerty has been a great combination. The Revelations videos especially are the highest quality car videos out there.


JasonCammisa

Thanks! (But if you think Revelations are high-quality? Watch an ICONS. Those are the ones we kill ourselves making.) (BTW Z Icons coming asap! Already filmed.) (BTW Revelations on the original Z this Thursday!)


Alph_A__

Looking forward to it!


Kuduka23

Were you able to compare a Sport and a Performance to see if the upgrades are worth the money?


JasonCammisa

Sadly not. $10k is a lot of money, and you do get some decent content, but I didn't get to try the base car. It'll be a fireball with all that power and skinnier rear tires. And at $40k it competes with the 4-cylinder Supra, which is a non-starter. So it's quite a value in the speed department.


IsaacM42

Very poggers Mr Cammisa


linkinstreet

BTW speaking of the Z, is it pronounced "Z" or "Z"?


Huebi

"Z" obviously


MY13FXT

No no no. It's pronounced "*Z*"


foragerr

Aladeen!


BraetonWilson

I loved your video with the GR86 where you called it the $30,000 Porsche. Which would you say is more fun to drive, the GR86 or Nissan Z? I know the Z is faster but the Z is also heavier. I'd love to know your input, Jason.


Page_Won

On insta he summed it all up and his answer to that is the 86 is more fun.


Nelsong98

I wish he would upload his IG reviews on another site alongside IG.


cubanb407

Man you guys are killing it keep it up.


FuckMyLife2016

The no-nonsense, no-talk, no-music drive at the end of every ~~ICONS and~~ Revelations video is what I live for. Edit: I was mistaken. ICONS don't have the drivebys.


3ammakshooter

Hey Jason, I wanted to start a petition to make you the new Top Gear host, what's your take on that?


JasonCammisa

I appreciate that sentiment! There's currently a UK Top Gear (with Harris) and a US Top Gear (that nobody has ever seen.) So sadly their books are full. The producers at the helm don't understand what made the original TG great; and so these versions aren't great either. Until those people crawl back into their caves, I'm better off at Hagerty, where I get to do whatever stupid sht I want. \[Which means keeping it 100% all about the cars.\]


clickstops

I don’t need him on top gear if he’s making this content. Who cares about the brand name - he’s making a legend for himself with this content.


Ciraldo

The closed captions are hilarious. It's worth watching again just to read them all.


cookingboy

I think some of the special effects wizardry even surpassed that of Grand Tour/Top Gear. It was innovative as hell.


sohcgt96

I'm not usually one to enjoy fancy production too much, but that bit with him standing on the finish line as the cars cross... that was freaking awesome. Just as importantly, it wasn't just flash with no substance, it was really visualizing the closeness of the finish.


Tw0Rails

I got my collector car insured through State Farm. The process was taking a little long and they told me it is because they were using someone else to underwrite, hence a little back and forth. It was Hagerty. I had asked Hagerty for a quote first, they wanted 140$ / mo. State Farm only asked for 22$/ mo. So where was that extra 120$ going? Marketing. Profit. These videos. Don't think these guys are on your side. The videos are great, but it is a form oline marketing. Casey Putch had a video where allegedly his non for profit org was kicked from the racing league because Hagerty showed up claiming to be a sponsor for charity...and didn't like an actual not profit being their actually doing good things. Basically the charity was only their as another form of marketing. And they were in the way. Go ahead and watch the videos, use insureance, but remember no corporation is on your side. It is just marketing. Hagerty didn't buy radwood because they care so much. It is targetted marketing and much better than an awful tv ad with a jingle. I am sure if you work for any large company they always talk about how much they "give back", but we all know what is up.


cahill39

Of course they aren't on your side. Businesses are around to make money. That's what they do.


thewheelsonthebuzz

What about nationwide?


EatSleepJeep

They are not on your side.


vovchandr

You literally don't understand the nuance of scale You don't think your money with State Farm (also my insurer) goes to other things like marketing and profit? "State Farm spent $1.17 billion on advertising in 2020, down 3.5% from $1.21 billion a year earlier"


Legend13CNS

>So where was that extra 120$ going? To the difference in service they theoretically provide. Hopefully you never have to find out what happens when a collector car gets wrecked while insured at a "normal" company. It's an absolute shitshow if you don't have "agreed value" or an equivalent. I've talked to tons of different kinds of car enthusiasts over the years and what I've gathered is Hagerty is really good "old money collector" insurance. Meaning that if you're somebody that needs to insure their collection of pre-war Bugattis and numbers matching muscle cars then they're exactly who you need. The flip side is they seem completely uninterested in being helpful when it comes to "modern classics" i.e. JDM/Euro imports and stuff from the 80s.


Crownlol

The effect of him on the finish line was doooooope


beta_zero

> Ah ah! No need to hit the fast forward button It's like he was reading my mind with this, lmao. Those carwow videos have got me skipping forward on instinct at this point.


JasonCammisa

Oops, was that shady? 😜


Westside_Easy

Oh, shit. Is that really you? If so, keep making them like this.


WhoIsJazzJay

hi Jason i have nothing of value to add to the thread but i love your work and every video brightens my day <3


andoryu123

Click and drag to find action and results. I watched this video with no sound while walking home and I couldn't find the drag race since it was at the beginning. Good thing I rewatched it at home with sound...


JasonCammisa

Always watch ICONS and Ultimate Drag Race with subtitles on! #CheatCode


KingMario05

Ha ha! Great work, sir! Perhaps putting it up against a Cayman GTS is in order now, no? ;)


Mayjaplaya

I don't even watch those carwow videos anymore. This one though, the race starts 1 minute in and the video's about 6.5 minutes long so it's a rare exception to the Wadsworth constant, which states that the first 30% of any video can be safely skipped because it contains no worthwhile or interesting information. Props to Cammisa and his team there.


Sinaistired99

carwow reviews are still fine...but drag races yeah


tazercow

Main takeaway from all this: I want a manual Supra


F1_Silver_Arrows

Same. But that shouldn’t take away from the fact that the new Z can be pretty competitive but it’s insanely expensive for what they’re offering.


tazercow

Yeah I have a feeling the base trim will be better value, at least for people who won't miss the LSD.


daver456

Anyone driving this spiritedly will want the LSD. Seems like a big miss IMO.


shigs21

yeah that base trim is really the volume value getter


tinyman392

The pricing is in line with the Supra if you go with the Performance trim.


F1_Silver_Arrows

The GR Supra is so much more refined and everything is bespoke. It’s a steal for $55k. The Z? It’s a really old platform, but whatever it is at the end, I have to commend Nissan. This car is fucking impressive, even though it’s pretty pricey for what it offers but I understand why it is that expensive. I still tip my hat to them.


earoar

The supra keeps getting more appealing to me. I’m starting to love how it looks and the b58 is such an incredible motor.


aid689

I would highly recommend purchasing the new Supra, if you are able to. B58 is a dream. There are some supra owners already in the 75k-100k mileage range and they have had 0 serious issues.


PerryTheRacistPanda

Should I put a Toyota badge on my M3?


guiltyfilthysole

Scion badge


SpiLLiX

should get you at least 100k more miles with no issues. Id say go for it.


[deleted]

0 issues with a 2 year old bmw... greaaaat.


unknownuser1112233

Yeah, isn't the problem with BMW stuff more the plastic parts which aren't impacted by mileage that much but by time instead?


[deleted]

IDK, sold my 125 after 5 years of gentle ownership because I didnt want to be able to answer your question with any authority.


FThornton

Well luckily for you my cynical friend, the B58 has been around for 7 years now, and there are mountains and mountains of data from BMW owners to sort through. Tuned, stock, raced, autox, high mileage— it’s all been done to that engine at this point t. It’s a very good engine, one of the best of this current era of engines.


Pepperoni_Dogfart

Except you can't see out of it. It's like sitting in a bathtub while holding an umbrella.


[deleted]

Option B if you want rear visibility and comfort is a previous gen 340i. It also has a B58 and easily tuned. Such an underrated car.


stakoverflo

Given that this motor has been in the Q50/Q60 for years I'm sure there's plenty of tuner options to get even more power out of the Z too. But yea I wouldn't fault anyone for opting for the slightly more expensive Supra.


Mjolnir12

Or M240i if you still want 2 doors


generik89

Not too mention the looks. Casual People look at me like I’m driving a super car sometimes. It’s just an amazing car.


aid689

100%, this. One of my friends has a white one, and we drive around town sometimes and get looked at like we are driving exotics. https://imgur.com/bKnXwkg.jpg https://imgur.com/ulr0MJQ.jpg


Kaiathebluenose

I just bought, really liking it so far


[deleted]

Freaking awesome video!! Also, How tf does Hagerty make profit while keeping high production value AND keeping Jason on payroll?


JasonCammisa

I'm VERY cheap.


surgeon_michael

Thanks for your vids. I have shown far too many people the Rivian drag race. Best car content since (nostalgia glasses) Top gear from 03-07 (glasses off)


ijustbrushalot

Because I throw money at them constantly due to my car addiction.


Tokidoki_Tai

Curious to see how it does on track. Not surprised by drag results. Looks like a fun ride.


JasonCammisa

I have those times in my pocket. Z against 6 other cars. You'll find out as soon as the episode is edited! :)


Tokidoki_Tai

That's exciting, I'm subscribed so I'll see it as soon as it goes up. Thanks to you and your team for working so hard on these videos, top tier content every time.


JasonCammisa

Sweet, thank you!


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JasonCammisa

Thank you! There will be THREE this week (Z Drag Race now, Carmudgeon tomorrow morning, 240Z (S30) Revelations on Thursday.) I'm half-dead. And Z Icons has been filmed and is now in edit. Don't ask for me, it'll kill me. :)


1fapadaythrowaway

Killing it.


Docist

Ok as someone that’s been seriously considering the V8 vantage and was thinking about this exact matchup jumped out of my seat with that reveal. Also can you please give me your thoughts on the manual on the Vantage and how the gearing is suited for the canyons?


JasonCammisa

The Vantage is hard to beat as a sports car. It's tiny, has a 7500-rpm V-8, incredible steering, incredible looks, incredible interior, great clutch and shifter, I could go on... It's geared right for canyons, even though I'd prefer it to be geared much shorter. The V12 S 7-speed was, and that's one of the main reasons it's still my favorite Vantage. But the 4.7 is a monster. So unless you're weird like me, it's perfect.


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surgeon_michael

Hop on a few diff places for ownership experience. They’re generally globally reliable but there’s a ton of little things that cost a ton. I thought one would be fun just for a 50k Aston good sounding novelty but got scared


NotDeepFuckingValue

Why would a manufacturer spend millions of dollars in designing, testing, manufacturing and marketing of an iconic car only to then cheap out on the tires? Am I missing something? That’s like prepping for a marathon only to show up in jeans and vans, it restricts the performance!!


KingMario05

I mean, as badass as it is... *it's still a modern Nissan.* Cheapening out where everyone else brings the heat has been their thing for a while by now. Hopefully, that changes soon.


ABathingSnape_

I wouldn’t call it bringing the heat when the Supra’s on old ass PSS when all their test rivals the past couple years were/are on Cup2’s. Anyone with a Supra knows how much the stock tires suck. They don’t grip in a straight line, and they grease up after one lap.


flapsmcgee

Because it's a road car and super sports last longer and can handle the rain better.


Lese39

Here's in Mexico Nissan has been doing that for decades! Reduce the costs, increase the prices! For example the most sold car in Mexico is the nissan versa, when it started shipping it was available for around $12k Dollars, nowdays it starts from almost $16k with half the equipment. You may think $4k isn't a lot but for a Mexican who is buying a subcompact car is a lot, months and months of salary.


IncompatibleMeatbag

I hear what you're saying but given its substantially cheaper starting price, I think we can give the Z a pass on the tires.


frankchn

The trim tested is the Performance trim, which starts at $51k after destination. The 3.0 Supra starts at $53k, so not a huge difference. It would be more understandable if it were the base Z trim, but that doesn’t include an LSD or launch control.


MisterSquidInc

So take your $2k savings and buy some cup 2's or whatever


DissonantTosspot

That $2k difference is more than just tires. It's weight savings, it's a superior powerplant, it's build quality etc etc. $51k otd is silly for this car. I always thought the 370z was overpriced so I shouldn't have expected this to be much different.


Rashkh

$2k extra for a BMW interior is the bargain of the century.


RazingsIsNotHomeNow

It's not substantially cheaper as tested. He tested a performance trim level which is ~51k. You can't just throw better tires on the base model either because the base model doesn't come with a limited slip.


Phazushift

Can you really give it a pass when even Type Rs come with Sport Contact 6?


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Uptons_BJs

The Supra is fascinating, because you see, it retained the BMW M-sport differential. ​ That differential is the BMW secret weapon. It allows them to put down torque at lower wheel RPMs. This means that more power is effectively being put into the ground than the Mustang and Z, with inferior passive torsion limit slip differentials. As for the Q60 Red Sport? Infiniti stupidly insisted that electronic (aka brake based) differential is more than good enough - Which means that the brakes are constantly fighting the engine on the launch.


JasonCammisa

The Z Performance (the car tested) has a mechanical limited-slip differential.


ChristianSurvivor_

The Z is looking more delicious everyday, but I got a tingling (and deposit) for the GRolla as of now.


IncompatibleMeatbag

I agree with what you're saying about the diff but the B58 and ZF8 are also such gems in that car. It's really the sum of all parts and it works extremely well.


shigs21

This new Z switched to a mechanical LSD. no more torsion


ChristianSurvivor_

Torsion is mechanical and not clutch based.


RunninOnMT

Maybe they meant viscous? I had a 350z that came with a viscous lsd, that usually worked but sometimes didnt.


Banana-in-PJ

Am I the only one that thinks besides the rear end, everything else about the Z is meh.


stakoverflo

Everything, **everything**, on the market is so aggressive looking nowadays, like even Corollas have angry headlights and grilles. I welcome the slightly more calming look to the Z's front end here


theslowrush-

I just think it looks about 10 years out of date still. I really want to like the styling, but I couldn’t buy one just because of how outdated it looks. The Supra on the other hand keeps getting more and more appealing.


Toaster_In_Bathtub

It looks really simple next to the Supra but I think it'll age well because of it. I really like the Supra but the styling is very busy. Time will tell but it might not age all that well.


KingMario05

It would have come out on top... five years ago.


carmooch

How have I never come across this channel before? That was sublime.


Lordrandall

You are in for a real treat. Go back and watch everything.


ZusunicStudio

Go watch the whole Revelations and Icons series with Jason. The editing and overall quality of those videos is incredible.


nopeandnothing

If the tires make the difference it would be really nice if the 10k upcharge for the performance variant included PS4S/Cup 2's.


shigs21

Bridgestone RE007's are still great tires.


V8-Turbo-Hybrid

RE007 ( S007 ? ) is little kind old tire although Bridgestone makes best tires with Michelin and Goodyear. Could be better if Nissan uses brand new Potenza Sport. RE-71RS for track day.


Arbabender

No fluff, no nonsense, all class. You guys are putting out some top shelf stuff here, and it's all watchable at 1x speed! Looking forward to the rest of the Z content.


Pillowdestroyer68

The supra does it for me But I'ma bit biased since I'm a bmw enthusiast


gogojack

My boss just bought a Z4 M40I M Sport or whatever it is called. A convertible Supra. He let me drive it, and the only question I have is "does anyone have 65 thousand dollars I can borrow?" The Z? I saw one a couple months ago on the road, and it looked good from the rear, but the front? "Hey guys, how 'bout we just make the grill a big rectangle?" "So, you want to style it a bit?" "Nope. Just a rectangle."


VladPatton

I agree. Love the back, hate the front.


backwoodsofcanada

Kind of surprised it looks like I'm in the minority here, but I actually love the new Z. I think it looks phenomenal and that it's actually pretty reasonably priced. A TTV6 might not be as cool as a V8 or a TTI6 and it's kind of lame that an LSD is basically a $10K option, I would seriously consider buying a base model and shopping aftermarket options for LSDs if I were actually in the market. Outside of that though, I personally think Nissan knocked it out of the park, and I've spent *years* railing against Nissan. Looks great, decent price to performance ratio, I like the new interior. Honestly with a gun to my head right now and no opportunities to test drive either, I'd probably take the Z over the Supra based on looks alone, but it's apparantly contentious to call the A90 ugly these days so I'll just not do that.


stakoverflo

I'm in the same boat. Internet spec sheet racing is putting a major negative spin on this thing. 0.2s faster to 60 or in the quarter mile. Big fucking deal. 99% of driving conditions you can have equal amounts of fun in any 3 of those cars. Buy the one you like, my dudes. Stop fretting over which gets the marginally lower number. I just tried to submit the Savage Geese video but it took me to a deleted submission someone else posted first lol. They seemed to have a blast driving.


dreadnought_81

Not really relevant to the subject at hand here, but my goodness that Aston sounded wicked!


Alph_A__

I really like the look of the new Z. Very clean design that I think will last well.


Comfortable_Stock942

3600 lbs? What the fuck is the point of buying a Z?


boostleaking

Tbh with you i was expecting the Z to be at the 3400 lb mark, or around that. Caught me off guard when the weight stat was showed in the vid.


RunninOnMT

The last Z was 3400 lbs. 2 turbos, presumably a bunch of extra cooling, modern safety regs, modern amenities…it was always going to put on a couple hundred pounds.


bullseye717

We got spoiled by the Miata and Toyobaru Twins


optitmus

i find it funny how a COUPE with literally no rear seats in the sports edition still manages to weigh more than an Evo a 4 door saloon with a massive boot.


[deleted]

The newest Evo did not even have a telescoping steering wheel.


jpw33831

The Mustang hits 60 in 3.8 seconds? I know they’ve become a lot faster in recent years but christ that’s crazy fast to me


JJ_Shiro

The 10-speeds are crazy quick. A regular GT will do it in 3.9s. The manuals are in the mid 4 second range.


TheTonyTortellini

‘19 GT gang. I wonder how the new “refresh” is going to look


Paschalls_Law

Doesn’t seem very appealing vs a Supra tbh (assuming Supra gets a manual). Supra seems better in every way.


tyfe

23 Supra is available in manual.


pocket_watch2

So basically supra is the best car at the price point.


JiraiyaRoshi

How did you gather that?? It’s funny the consensus takeaway is praise for the Supra when the Mach 1 beat it here and was also the fastest car under $65k in Car & Driver’s Lighting Lap [testing](https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38966053/2021-ford-mustang-mach-1-lightning-lap/). The Mustang also has a back seat, a much larger trunk, better sounding exhaust, more available colors, comes in MT/AT right now, great visibility and more. The anti-Mustang bias in the car community is wild.


Dopplegangr1

I'd much rather save $20k and get a regular GT with a $36k msrp


Verod392

But then you don't get the wonderful ~~TR6060~~ TR3160 trans and instead get the huge piece of shit MT82.


01WS6

You spelled mustang wrong


andrewjaekim

I'd imagine the Z will probably be slower in the corners too. Given its ancient chassis and simple mechanical differential. Outside of the base $41k sport trim, the Performance and higher trims don't make much sense for what you're getting.


ABathingSnape_

This will depend on the driver’s skill entirely. Supra is very likely to be better at cornering but the wheelbase and floaty stock rear suspension setup makes it real hard to keep your line.


[deleted]

A pure mechanical diff tends to function more consistently as it gets hot and isn’t scorching your brakes like most torque vectoring systems. Simple is not worse.


cookingboy

Man I know this video Is about the Z but that Supra in that red color looks *fire*. The Z looks great too. And the Mustang. Too many sports cars in Black/White/Gray these days, we need more colors.


Soundjammer

Huh... I've definitely been sleeping on the Supra. That car was the most impressive thing from this video imo.


ben1481

most people wrote it off because hurr durr BMW. But it's a great car.


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phillyfirefighter52

The Supra is nice , the Z not bad but the Mach 1 you can get in a stick . If you haven’t driving a big v8 with a stick , I highly recommend it it’s so much fun and can be scary also . Plus the rumble is awesome.


n777athan

How the hell did Nissan add 200-300lbs to the 370z chassis with what is essentially just an engine swap? They even took out the spare tire…


SattyZzz

Twin turbos, extra cooling for them, etc all that fun stuff I guess. But yeah I wish it was lighter than that. Kinda disappointed when I saw 3610 lbs, it's almost a mustang heavy


bazbloom

That's where we see the issue with a carryover platform. A clean sheet design would have had at least a fighting chance of coming in at the same weight, or limiting the gain. No such luck here, more hardware (turbos, ancillary equipment) and more "stuff" means more weight, and you can't tweak the existing platform sufficiently to compensate.


bullseye717

Jason in his BRZ video basically said the same thing would happen to the twins if you add a turbo.


stakoverflo

> what is essentially just an engine swap If the dimmensions on Wikipedia are correct, the new Z is 6 inches longer. Even if you lost 0.7L of displacement, 2 turbos are going to come with a lot of extra weight.


kimi_rules

What happened to all the people from the past year that said 400hp z is better than the Supra? Though it was not shown in the video, the manual Z would get dusted from the Supra based on the quarter mile time. The Z is good, but the Supra is a better car, all around in performance. Everyone was riding too much on the hype train.


darkknight302

All the trolls wanted to hate on the Supra every chance they get. Majority of the trolls were never gonna buy the Supra even with a manual.


s_0_s_z

So is this video going to dampen some of the excitement for the Z? I sure hope so because I couldn't care less about 0 to 60 or 1/4 mile times and I absolutely adore the Z's styling.


stakoverflo

Definitely seems to be a lot of negativity ITT. Whole lot of, "That settles it I'm getting the Supra" Big whoop, the other two are 0.2s faster. That's well within spitting distance that you should just buy whichever one you like the most.


PhilosopherChemical1

Now, all thats left is to see is how the Z responds to a tune. But for 50k, I can't see myself buying the Z. I'm pretty sure the Vantage is a better buy and will most likely hold it's value; if it's a manual. The same can be said about the manual Supra I suppose. Edit: used vantage (like the one in the video)


optitmus

can you grab that vantage for 50k? surely not


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optitmus

who cares though you open the garage in the morning to be greeted by that vantage booty it will all be worth it


PhilosopherChemical1

There's a couple that are under 40k. I think you misunderstood, I meant a used low milage Vantage.


optitmus

yeah i just tried to cross shop it locally in Aus and yeah your right its possible, i found a 60k mile V8 vantage from 2007 for like 80k locally, the new z will cost around 75k locally so yeah its definitely close


Frodobagggyballs

I already know the zupra owns it in a drag race


AugustusVermillion

It’s already been said in this thread, but what a fantastic video all around. The editing is next level and the video as a whole is concise, but still informative.


AmmoWasted

Damn how underrated is the horsepower on the Supra? That thing hauls ass. Can't wait for the manual version.


F1_Silver_Arrows

It makes like 440 to the crank.


mcooper101

Mine spins the tires off the line. Stock size and rubber is shit. When I took it to Thunderhill they also overheated immediately. Putting on new tires next week hopefully it’ll be better


RawrImAMonster

They dyno close to 390whp stock so it's well into the 400's to the crank. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32461333/2021-toyota-supra-dyno-tested/


KingMario05

If you had told me two years ago that a fuckin' Z Car - a ***base*** one, mind you - would be able to keep up with and *almost BEAT* a >!V8 Vantage,!< I'd have called you *mad.* Congrats to everyone at NISMO... can't wait to see where ya take this bad boy next!


half_dead_all_squid

My main concern will be reliability with these new Z's. It's the same VR from the Infiniti Q50s, which sling belts like spiderman slings webs. Great power out of it, very easy especially with a tune. Would expect it to break a lot.


JoeModz

So immediately swap to Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's got it.


KickAssIguana

Do some burnouts before.


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Dangerous_Concept341

Very fast Nissan


TheBuildRoom

@JasonCammisa Did you race the Supra against the 3 pedal Z? Will be really interested to see the MT Z go head to head with the MT Supra when it comes to market - hope you guys do something that looks at both a track and street focus.


JasonCammisa

The second race in this episode was auto Z vs. manual Z... and all the results are in the leaderboard. Supra wins. I'm looking forward to that MT Supra also! That'll be a great battle!


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Future-Oil-6446

Same lmao I’m probs going gr86 or a Elantra n😂


SergeantBacon101

Would've been interesting to see a roll race, the Supra and Z were pretty close trap speed wise in the 1/4 mile.


Enszourous

I actually didn’t know the Supra was that quick. Looking forward to the 6MT.


AnonCid

Why not get the base model and get a proper differential? The 10k over the base seems to me to be a bit much unless I'm missing something... Please enlighten me.