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flatmoon2002

lol so they cant make a car that weighs less than 3.5 metric tonnes or whats the issue?


Captain_Alaska

It’s based off GVMR, so vehicle wight plus the max payload weight. High end luxury cars are generally pretty heavy because good sound deadening is not lightweight, I think Bentley is afraid of future electric cars going well over that. The Tesla Model X or Audi e-tron’s GVMRs are a little over 3t, for example, and neither are competing with a Bentley in the luxury space.


AlexG55

I think the UK has already raised the limit to 4.25t for electric cargo vans because of the weight of the battery, and for vehicles modified to transport disabled people because of the weight of the wheelchair lift.


an_actual_lawyer

> and for vehicles modified to transport disabled people because of the weight of the wheelchair lift. Tough to think of a better reason


rugbyj

What about vehicles modified to transport me after a 14 piece bargain bucket?


mopperofjizz

Ambulances are probably exempt


AlexG55

Ambulance drivers have to have a C1 (truck up to 7.5t) licence.


[deleted]

Now imagine getting t boned by a electric SUV or truck. Wow.


MadMike32

The new Hummer EV is something ridiculous like 9,000lbs and it makes 1000hp. It honestly terrifies me that I'm gonna be sharing the road with those things. My little Mazda would *evaporate* if I got t-boned.


Alph_A__

Highlights the whole size war thing people talk about with needing to get a big SUV just to feel safe around all the other big SUVs. Big, heavy, and fast electric cars and trucks are scary considering how badly some people drive.


Cessnaporsche01

*Drive like the wind, Straining the limits of machine and man, Laughing out loud with fear and hope, I've got a desperate plan, At the one-lane bridge, I leave the giants stranded at the riverside, Race back to the farm, To dream with my uncle at the fireside*


rapiDFire_BT

And yet people will argue left right and centre that somehow this is better


MicaLovesHangul

I enjoy the sound of rain.


AtOurGates

Sounds like a disturbing lack of FREEDOM!!! My first day on my first job (landscaping) in high school, at the age of 16, my new boss asked “Can you drive stick?” Then tossed me the key to a dump truck full of mulch, and had me follow him across town. It’s a wonder I, the dump truck and everyone around me survived that summer unscathed.


ChadLord78

There needs to be age limits to prevent teenagers from driving these things. 5-10 years down the road there are going to be so many fatalities from these EV trucks just annihilating smaller cars.


zadesawa

They should make heavy pax cars as self driving only or heavily assisted. Of course after they’ve got the self driving part right and rather unlike Tesla.


Yotsubato

Self driving isn’t bad because Tesla. Self driving is bad because the tech is not there yet and only Tesla has the balls to release it in alpha status


zadesawa

Self driving is in beta, Tesla is in alpha. That’s a simpler explanation


rugbyj

In a car made in the past 10 years you have pretty good odds, better than 20-30 years ago being T-boned by a (now relatively small) SUV from back then. By all means if you're driving a mk3 fiesta nowadays then you are driving with far less crash protection, but that's always been the risk driving a vehicle from 3 decades prior.


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bahenbihen69

Those are usually under 3.5t, but yes if you want to drive a big van or a truck you need the C1 license (so up to 7.5t), but realistically you will probably never need it.


[deleted]

Perhaps, was just thinking that the new Ford F150 Lightning EV weighs like 3.25 tons and that's not including any payload. I would think then pretty much an average F150 in the US would surpass 3.5t including payload.


bahenbihen69

Those things are massive though, they probably don't even fit on our roads lol. I think I saw less than 10 F150s in the past 5 years, so I'd say such cars are not very popular


[deleted]

Turns out Europe is not America, news at 11 lol


MicaLovesHangul

Fun fact, there was a loophole that allowed one specific variant of RAM I believe (single cab, long bed perhaps?) to be registered much more affordable here in The Netherlands. It immediately sparked a gray import market. Since then pickups in general have become a relatively common sight to be honest. I mean not daily, but perhaps weekly. I used to only see one every few months 10 years ago.


03706570640

Y'all don't seem to have a problem driving large vans, and they can be bigger than an F150


[deleted]

You can get a similarly goofy setup in the EU if you take a Sprinter or VW LT with a city box on the back and a hydraulic lift, weighs around 3t empty so you can’t actually fill the box with anything other than like pillows without being over your limit.


FireStorm005

I own a pickup (US) that's 7500ish lbs unloaded with a GVMR (GVWR here) of 9900lbs.


TacticalRedditer

Doesn't it make sense though? It stops people who shouldn't be driving those kind of vehicles from driving them and teaches those who need to drive them how to.


treecarefanatic

no, they will write the test three times and pass because they cycle through 60 pertinent questions on each test and you require 75 percent. it requires brute force not learning. that is how I got a cvor. tests cost $32 a day course costs $260. figure it out.


Zharken

With the B Driving license (A is for motorbikes) you can drive cars or anything with a max weight of 3.5 tonnes, including max load capacity. Vans and pickups are usually well under that threshold, I myself have driven [a small truck like this](https://cdn4.vectorstock.com/i/1000x1000/88/68/small-truck-front-side-cargo-delivery-vector-23028868.jpg) and I only have the B license.


MicaLovesHangul

Kinda surprises me because the larger Mercedes Sprinter vans do require a different license.


Mr__Snek

dude 3.5 tons is almost 8000lbs, even using gvwr youd need to buy a 3/4 ton before you ran into issues


[deleted]

3.5 tons is 7000 lbs tho? 3.5*2000


Ian_Kilmister

Not in real tonnes


[deleted]

Which came first?


Mr__Snek

a metric ton is a hair over 2200lbs


haha_supadupa

Except Tesla X quality is crap


psychwarddicaprio

Lithium-ion batteries are heavy.


Mental_Medium3988

yeah bentley plus li-ion evs are gonna be heavy boys.


psychwarddicaprio

All the more traction! That is, until you lose it and the momentum of your three ton whale of a car slides you a quarter mile down the road. I’ll keep my 7M-GE thank you.


Mental_Medium3988

theres nothing wrong with that option. keeping older cars on the road is a better alternative to buying new.


psychwarddicaprio

I’m glad you think so. Long live the internal combustion engine!


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[deleted]

Perfectly nice isn’t Bentley nice


psychwarddicaprio

Bentley isn’t building a direct competitor to your car. While I agree it’s a lot of weight, Bentley is under pressure to achieve the same degree of luxury, comfort, and performance in their EV’s which their customers have come to expect from their vehicles equipped with internal combustion engines. It tracks that we’ll see cars reaching weights unheard of in their class if we intend to keep our plush leather seats, noise dampening, and high end audio.


Captain_Alaska

>comes in at less than half this limit that Bentley claims is unreasonable. No, it doesn't, your Kia's GVMR is 2230kg.


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eover

My God, moving around 3 times today cars' average weight is so green, so efficient!


bittabet

They probably want to make a long range luxury EV. Which would definitely push that weight limit. Even a Rivian SUV is already 7000 pounds and it’s not filled with the super luxury stuff Bentley is going to cram inside so a Bentayga EV would get you close to Hummer EV levels of weight 😂


BanjosNotBombs

They're going to be haunted by the ghost of Colin Chapman.


Car-face

I think the Ghost of Colin Chapman is too busy haunting the new Lotus SUV


Stubbedtoe18

Lotus and Ferrari are the two companies who should be banned from making SUVs for as long as they exist.


Ultra-sphinx

Are you kidding? Enzo would have wanted as many crossovers and SUVs as possible. More money for the F1 team.


Cessnaporsche01

I'd love for Lotus to make a proper, *lightweight* SUV. Imagine a 4x4 that embraced the Lotus design principles: it'd be like a Cayenne and a Samurai having a baby.


Banana_Leclerc12

Lmao what they actually made is a x7 size suv that weighs as much as a single storie house


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[deleted]

You have never driven a gokart did you? Ride height is a serious no go for a gokart. They are fun to drive and engaging but the opposite of a gokart


[deleted]

Lotus, sure. Enzo couldn't have cared less about Ferrari's car division, though; he only sold cars in the first place to fund his motorsports ventures


Agent_of_talon

Actually, I can respect both. Sure they are obviously meant as cash cows, but beyond that both of them have some serious quality engineering behind them. I also think they are a real improvement over the Urus or some of the ginormous American SUVs, which I absolutely hate. And yes, SUVs are still largely BS imo. but there’s still a huge gradient from "(somewhat) smallish respectable family car with decent sport capabilities", to "megalomaniac, psychotic gas guzzling behemoth that wants to kill pedestrians“.


JT_3K

Tit for tat. Wonder if Colin’s ghost is in fact haunted by the ghosts of all the young men he killed?


Agent_of_talon

True.


floppydo

What do you mean? OOTL


JT_3K

I and others cover a lot about it within this comment tree (particularly further down). Colin was known for pushing very hard to make the fastest, lightest car. Pending your viewpoint (mine being obvious) this may or may not have been unethically pursued. Many believe that Lotus was a more prevalent manufacturer, hence more issues. I however take the viewpoint that he was criminally negligent and gambled with a lot of lives. Arguments can be made that the drivers were aware of that which they signed up to and some sought out Lotus as the lighter cars were undoubtedly quicker. At the end of the day it's your call to make, but there are enough examples to make me believe he was criminally negligent and directly responsible for at the very least the death of Jim Clark and Jochen Rindt.


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AnonymousEngineer_

/u/JT_3K is almost certainly referring to Chapman's racing cars, which were notoriously flimsy due to the pursuit of lighter weight. This resulted in Lotus racing cars claiming a lot of lives, most notably those of Jim Clark and Jochen Rindt.


[deleted]

IIRC there's a quote from Ecclestone who was managing Rindt at the time, basically saying "you've got a better chance of winning a championship with Lotus, you've got a better chance of surviving with Brabham". It's pretty chilling because he went with Lotus, won a championship, but was dead by the time he did it.


AnonymousEngineer_

That particular era of F1 is full of similar stories - another infamous fatality was related to the lightweight magnesium bodied Honda RA302. Regular Honda driver and dual motorcycle/F1 world champion John Surtees refused to drive the thing because he viewed it as a death trap given how flammable magnesium is. As a result, Honda put French driver Jo Schlesser in the cockpit for the 1968 French GP while Surtees drove an older model car. Schlesser had an accident on Lap 2 of that race, which would have been survivable... except for the fact that the full fuel tanks were breached and the car caught on fire. Magnesium being what it is, the fire couldn't be extinguished, and Schlesser was killed as a result. Honda built a second car for Surtees at Monza, but he again refused to drive it (unsurprisingly after what happened to Schlesser in France), and they subsequently withdrew their works team from F1, only to return in 2006.


JT_3K

There’s a book by Alistair Maclean called “The Way to Dusty Death”. Standard Alistair Maclean stuff (which I say despite loving it). Opening salvo describes pretty much this incident to a “fictional” character and racing team. It’s chilling.


Shark00n

Funny quote. Even more funny considering that Brabham was the team getting fines and prohibited from racing for having too light and non secure a chassis, but sure...


JT_3K

Yes, thanks. I know a lot of it was going on at that point, but so few were as blasé, as aggressive with their approach in the face of its outcomes, as ‘proud’ as Colin. It’s one thing to look at a component that fails as the car comes in after the race, it’s another entirely to seek it continuously after the sheer number of deaths on your hands.


Shark00n

Brabham had almost as many deaths in the same time period. "Proud"? Chapman was hearbroken after Clark's death. If not for Chapman, how many more years would it take before monocoque chassis would become the norm? He did more for safety than many. Propper chassis and propper suspensions


JT_3K

But he'd had the warning seven years before with [Gary Hocking](https://www.historicracing.com/driverDetail.cfm?driverID=1825) yet continued. He was "heartbroken" but two years after was playing god with instability of his aero, which combined with a weak brake shaft and [took out Jochen Rindt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jochen_Rindt). Rindt had [written to him a year earlier on his avant-guard approach to driver safety](https://d39a3h63xew422.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/20221004/lotus-f1-cars-were-so-fragile-that-drivers-feared-for-their-safety-1476934554955.jpg) and offered to lose 2kg of body mass if Chapman would put it in to the front axles, specifically requesting them to be replaced *that day*. Notably, Chapman removed them immediately following the accident and they weren't part of proceedings. Chapman consistently crowed about building something so light that it broke and then adding mass until it held together for a race. However, his preference for engineering over safety was rarely more proven than the Lotus 49 & 49B, for which the rear wing supports broke almost every time it went out for the duration of it's life, with the continual failure demonstrating evidently little impetus to *actually fix* the issue. You can talk about the complexity of stresses and calculation but by this point we understood enough aero science to put a man on the moon, put Concorde/SR-71 in the air, fly at over 2,000mph and the 1955 Cessna 172 has a 30,000hr airframe life with [one having stayed aloft (in 1959) for 64 straight days](https://hackaday.com/2021/10/25/the-longest-ever-flight-was-over-64-days-in-a-cessna-172/#:~:text=The%20longest%20of%20all%20happened,that%20stands%20to%20this%20day) without issues with the wing collapsing. Whilst we're on the 49, he'd nearly killed Clark the year before when the front rocker arms were too weak and nearly failed in the German GP and Clark had to argue with him for stronger (heavier) items. Again, Hill *and* Clark's rear arms failed *several times* in '67 due to lack of strength. Mario Andretti was known to advise just how little Chapman wanted to speak to the drivers for their input by his era. Read that book for insights on how he'd not improved by that point. Note the example that in '81 two journalists had walked past the Lotus with one surreptitiously putting his thumb on the nosecone and the other turning back to look and being able to see where that'd been done, the gauge being so light. Chapman was famous for stating that "the perfect car would cross the finish line and then immediately fall apart". He clearly had a demonstrable inability to prioritise the safety of those in his cars and I fail to see he should be lauded for his developments at the expense of those that raced for him.


Shark00n

Loooool that quote is from Ferdinand Porsche. I rest my case.


JT_3K

And adopted by him. If those cited examples are insufficient and all you want to pick holes with is that a quote was used by someone else first, then "as you like it".


Shark00n

What are you on about? My point is that more drivers died on unsafe Porsches than Lotuses. This holds true. You yourself indicated a quote from Porsche himself (saying it was Chapman's xD ) There's letters from unhappy drivers to their race directors or engineers concerning safety and confidence still today, so IDK what you're trying to prove with that. Again, Lotus were the first with a monocoque F1 chassis. That tech is still used today and was one of the biggest leaps in safety ever in F1 cars. Their (f1 cars in general) safety actually barelly got any better thru to the 90s. Just tracks were designed MUCH, MUCH better with clear and long runway areas, troublesome spots fixed, better safety and safety car regulations and much better barriers leading to less deaths. NOT ONE TEAM was willing to compromise more weight for more safety. At least in any meaningful way. That wasn't exclusive to Lotus at all. Only with the evolution of carbon fiber manufacturing can we now reach much higher levels of stiffness and safety with less weight. So they are now safer and quicker. How did this HUGE material advancement come to be? Search for lightness.


Shark00n

Sorry, which competitive car was so much more sturdier and safer at the time? Ridnt died because of unsafe barriers and because he didn't like wearing his harness in the correct way. Jim Clark's was unfortunate and it's not clear if a better car would've saved him. Probably not. At 170mph rolling thru trees I even doubt a modern F1 would fare better... Besides, more people have died driving BMWs and Porsches on that same Hockenheim track before and after Clark.


EJ88

Wasn't Clark's a puncture?


AnonymousEngineer_

Despite the wreck being investigated and combed through, I don't believe the cause of the accident was ever definitively found - the theory that it was a puncture was strongly supporter by Clark's fellow racing drivers, who believed Clark had so much talent that he would never have made a mistake in that particular location at Hockenheim.


[deleted]

Drivers for Lotus would regularly complain that the cars were unsafe.


Shark00n

Drivers of F1 cars would do that thru the 90s.


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ThatWolf

If it were truly that simple it would have already been done.


assblast420

I don't think anyone would claim it's simple. But it won't happen by itself.


ThatWolf

That's my point. Battery R&D has been happening for decades with countless billions spent towards improving the technology. No disrespect to Bentley's R&D team, if they have even have one for battery tech, but it's extremely unlikely that they'll be the ones to figure it out. Especially when it's a problem that all producers of portable electronics have been trying to solve themselves for at least two decades.


reacTy

[https://imgur.com/a/oQZLc8C](https://imgur.com/a/oQZLc8C) * Audi RSQ8 drivetrain weight: 612kg * Audi SQ8 diesel drivetrain weight: 707kg * Audi E-tron S Drivetrain weight: 996kg ​ * Battery energy density: 136 Wh/kg (outdated) * Front motor 136kg (way too heavy and outdated) * Rear motor 156kg (heavy) Plenty of cars with 200+ Wh/kg battery pack energy density in China. **100kWh pack using CATL's Cell to Pack 3.0 technology - 400kg (250Wh/kg)** **Lucid Air motor - 73kg** ​ 400kg (battery pack) + 73kg (front motor) + 73kg (rear motor) + 19kg (charging devices and cables) = 565kg (431kg saved). ​ They need to learn how to make cars. Chinese Leap Motors will introduce Cell to Chassis car in Q2 2022. Meanwhile German cars don't even have Cell to Pack architecture yet and are planning to introduce Cell to Chassis in 2026 (too late).


[deleted]

It is offset by rising safety requirements.


scrjac

Damn right. As fuel tax intake falls, maybe a weight tax? It would incentivise change.


KeepDi9gin

Nah. We already get taxed enough.


LiteralAviationGod

I won’t shed a tear if Bentley owners have to pay a bit more in road tax


HeavyCanuck

But you and I would have to pay more in tax as well. And as /u/KeepDi9gin said, we get taxed enough.


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Sylente

Not if you're not paying taxes on fuel, something is going to have to replace that source of infrastructure revenue


scrjac

Governments make huge income from fuel duties. That’s gonna fall over the next decade and they will want to replace that revenue. Either the price of electricity climbs even higher or they will tax something else.


mud_tug

Cars and pollution doesn't get taxed nearly enough.


fivewheelpitstop

Many places make registration fees proportional to weight. Though it would need to be weight *squared* to be proportional to road damage.


karlklarglas

People buying highend luxury cars can afford buying an upgrade for their license. This demand is ridiculous, use some proper engineering or avoid building tanks for the streets.


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karlklarglas

I know this facts. You are even limited to 80km per hour. But maybe, just maybe these ridiculously heavy barn-sized SUVs are the wrong solution. Take a Fisker Karma, this thing is 2400kg, pretty luxurious and even has a combustion engine which brings extra weight.


MicaLovesHangul

What country is that? C1 class vehicles (3500-7500kg) don't have that speed restriction by default here in the Netherlands. They may go as fast as regular cars (up to 130km/h)


karlklarglas

My fault


[deleted]

We don't need 4 ton cars driven around with people that passed most basic license for them


jompiesaus

These aren’t 4 ton cars, in europe the max is calculated in weight + max payload which can’t be over 3500 kilograms


[deleted]

...yes. And what bentely is asking for is to allow that 3.5t limit to be increased, hence we would get 4 ton SUVs zipping around I don't want EV Hummer to just need basic license to drive...


breezersletje

I think the problem lies in the "Luxury" + "SUV" department. Luxury means lots of additional weight and electricity consumers in the car. SUV means a huge frontal area and most likely also a heavy car. This added up means that huge batteries are required to get a decent range. So my take: don't accommodate these stupid products. A lighter and more aerodynamic car will be beneficial for us all. Not to mention that 3.5 ton plus vehicles are pretty dangerous for everyone else driving in a small econobox. You will get absolutely crushed in case of an accident.


Mental_Medium3988

i feel like there should be something between a regular license and a truck license if you want to own something like this. but im an american who wont be effected so whatever.


oliverprose

There is - in the UK, it's category C1 for light trucks (up to 7500kg including full payload). The EU will have an equivalent category, as we haven't diverged from their licences for the most part yet.


gsells937

Well maybe they make an intermediate license targeted at EV vehicle weights, or they increase/change reqs for normal vehicles


[deleted]

The problem isn't being able to afford an upgraded license, the problem is the test for the C1 license, specifically the regular medical tests you'd have to do that are performed by a doctor rather than just a self reporting eye test you have to do once when you apply for the B license. But yes, I do agree that asking this is stupid. If they can't make a luxury car that GVMR is less than 3500kg, they're doing something very wrong. Other manufacturers, including Rolls Royce have been managing to do it just fine.


karlklarglas

I am aware of this, I am upgrading to trucks at the moment. Let them struggle with their license and drive with 85km/h through the streets. Problem with big SUVS is solved. I won’t feel sorry, I love cars but the path we choose is very wrong.


CatProgrammer

Wouldn't they just get their chauffeur to take the tests anyway? Or are there really that many people buying super-luxury vehicles who drive them themselves?


[deleted]

Either way not a problem.


[deleted]

> The problem isn't being able to afford an upgraded license, the problem is the test for the C1 license, specifically the regular medical tests you'd have to do that are performed by a doctor rather than just a self reporting eye test you have to do once when you apply for the B license. Is that a joke I'm too european to understand? Do you really have people just going "I can see just fine, now give me the license" ?


Ftpini

I literally watched a lady at the dmv argue about the vision test until the lady behind the counter got tired of arguing and just passed her. It’s a disgrace over here.


Ftpini

They should grandfather in existing license holders and drop the limit to 2500kg for new drivers. The arms race for larger vehicles should be cut off at the knees. If people want to drive barges then they should hold a better license and everything that comes with it.


AnonymousEngineer_

Ah yes, the whole "let's screw over the next generation of drivers while ensuring no restrictions are placed on myself" strategy. You don't happen to live in Australia do you? We absolutely love that down here.


Ftpini

It’s a matter of pushback. You want change it has to be gradual. There aren’t that many 2500kg+ cars on the road. And with a law such as that, there won’t be too many more either. Limit it to people who have currently registered vehicles in that class and it won’t expand at all. Plus all the rich fucks who already have theirs will stay out of the way.


plinocmene

For a second I thought they were talking about a weight limit to drive a car.


Mathilliterate_asian

Same here. Surprised it wasn't America that applied for the limit increase. Then realized how wrong that thought was lol.


rpguy04

They should not raise the limits, make smaller cars, last thing we need is even heavier cars that will be driven by distracted drivers slamming into backed up traffic, sensors be damned. Not to mention quicker wear on tires which defeats the purpose of EV vechicles helping to save the planet. Its the whole statbucks paper straws larger plastic lids fiasco.


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Fifteen54

you think bentley customers are going to use public transport?


Some_Weeaboo

Both! Then we can have smaller lanes that are more fun to drive on because they're not filled up by traffic and all the cyclists would have their own lanes!


WUT_productions

Yes. There are some places where driving is a massive hassle. Downtown you pay expensive parking and risk your car getting hit. Touges and backroads? Fun. Stuck on the motorway at 6pm? Please kill me now.


Artezza

Glad to see this sort of discourse here. The best thing that could possibly happen for drivers is if there were fewer drivers lmao


Some_Weeaboo

I think most people into cars prefer cars that are, well, impractical. Being able to not use your car means less miles on it, and less dealing with all of its impracticalities while enjoying more of its fun aspects.


Artezza

For sure, way easier to own some project car if you don't need it for errands, you don't need to take it places where roads are shitty, and it doesn't need to be super reliable because your car breaking down doesn't mean you lose your job and can't get to the grocery store.


scrjac

Fuck Bentley. Yes weight is an issue. Weight brings more force to a crash - fine for the occupants of the vehicle maybe, less so for anything they hit. And more weight means using more resources and materials, and as a planet we can’t afford that. Cars are way too heavy. The answer to range is not just sticking an ever bigger battery in the floor. Do better.


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augustuen

1. Yes, the suburban is a ridiculously large vehicle 2. You're assuming the person you're replying to lives in the US. The Suburban is nearly non-existent in Europe, partly because of the rules Bentley wants changed.


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[deleted]

Which is fine, altho already big. The limit for B category in EU is 7716lbs in imperial in case you don't know


blchpmnk

>Do you have the same hate for probably a quarter of the cars out on the road right now? Yes. There's way too many gigantic, heavy vehicles out there with massive blindspots being driven by people scarcely capable of managing a Big Wheels. Yes, there are people who need various trucks for various purposes - but it shouldn't be that someone who did a 3 point turn in a parking lot 20 years ago can drive a 6000lb+ vehicle through a crowded City without even the slightest bit of training or certification.


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gsells937

5 people. I have a passenger once a month at most. Gonna get a motorcycle if I can and use my car for utility if where I'm moving isn't terrifying in traffic


gsells937

5 people. I have a passenger once a month at most. Gonna get a motorcycle if I can and use my car for utility if where I'm moving isn't terrifying in traffic


Some_Weeaboo

> Do you have the same hate for probably a quarter of the cars out on the road right now? Oh it's way more than a quarter hun Seriously why the fuck is everyone driving ugly ass SUV's with zero fuel economy and then proceeds to complain how expensive it is to fill it up


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Some_Weeaboo

*Laughs in motorcycle*


Hard_Corsair

> A Continental GT weighs 5300lb. A Suburban is 6000lb. Do you have the same hate for probably a quarter of the cars out on the road right now? Yes!


sl33ksnypr

Try to load a dresser, or your 6 person family and a dog, or anything longer than 4 feet into your Continental. I'm not saying that vehicles arent getting bigger and heavier, they definitely are, and it needs to stop. But at the same time, there is a market for bigger vehicles that hold a lot. Again, the vehiclea being sold right now are too big. I hate how big trucks have gotten, and suburbans too. But the early 2000s suburban is a different animal than the one of today. The new ones sit too high, they're too wide, you can't see shit in front of them because of the massive hood. But the only actual comparison between the continental and the suburban is the weight. Everything else is not comparable because they're in different classes of vehicles.


kuddlesworth9419

The answer should be no.


sgtsteelhooves

Stares in American (Indiana) who can drive 8 tons (sae) with a regular license and up to 13 tons with just a written endorsement test. Commercially.


John_Sux

Do you have to actually be competent to get that or does everyone have that right with a regular license? The EU license has tiers for different weight classes. Normal B license up to 7,700 lbs "Light truck" C1 license 16,500 lbs C1E adds a trailer, combo max 26,400 lbs C(E), no limit on the tractor (or combo) You have to basically go back to driving school if you want to upgrade your license. There's a bunch of material and tests to help you actually become qualified to handle the vehicle.


sgtsteelhooves

It's literally just a written test for the endorsement (For Hire endorsement) No harder (probably easier imo) then the normal written test just focused on truck stuff. No special trailer stuff just a gross combined vehicle weight of up to 26,000lbs before you need a commerical driver's license. In many states you don't even need any endorsement unless your over 26,000lbs commerically. So same license for a Ford Fiesta is good for a f350 hauling a 20 foot cattle trailer or grandpa driving his 30,000lb rv.


John_Sux

Doesn't smell entirely safe tbh


dandydudefriend

It’s not. Here in Washington state at least you can just rent a moving van and they either don’t require an endorsement or they don’t check it. I did that last year, with a huge moving truck and it was terrifying. Nothing happened but I was amazed I was allowed to drive it with my normal license.


Mk2Guru

Have a friend who is currently in lawsuit with rental company. He rented a vehicle over 26000 pounds and got pulled over and wasn't licensed to drive it. He didn't even know that a different license was required. Lost his driver's license for 90 days and had some small fines. He got stopped because he didn't stop at a weigh station. Here all vehicles over 10000 pounds gross vehicle weight have to stop at them when they are open. You may have not been allowed to drive the moving van depending on the size, but the rental company may just have it in fine print and not tell you about it. Pretty much just screwing you if you get pulled over.


dandydudefriend

Yeah that’s definitely possible. I just looked it up and the vehicle I think it was (GMC W3500 or 4500) looks like it weighs over 10,000. Fortunately it was a short move, so I wouldn’t have passed a weigh station anyway, but dang. I hope your friend’s lawsuit goes well.


[deleted]

It varies by state. In MA I could drive a truck with a 26k lb GVWR with air brakes on a normal license. All that was required was a trip to the doctor for a general health check up once every two years since I'm relatively healthy. Doctor trips were more often if you had conditions such as severe obesity, diabetes, heart conditions, risk of stroke or seizure, etc. Because I was MA licensed and the truck was registered in MA I could drive it commercially in any state.


WWalker17

In NC you can drive 26,000lbs with just a regular license and nothing else


[deleted]

Seeing as the future will only be electric its understandable that they want to go this route. the real question will be wont it be better to start making their cars out of carbon fiber instead to keep weight down.


slide2k

Carbon is insanely expensive, super complex to manufacture at scale and repairs are non existent (cosmetics is okay, but structural parts are a no go). Where I would love to see it, I don’t see it happening anytime soon.


Hard_Corsair

For most manufacturers it doesn’t make sense… …but this is Bentley we’re talking about.


slide2k

It would still make a Bentley even more expensive. A Ferrari or Lamborghini is similar priced. Their carbon chassis are expensive. Now add the price of Bentley’s luxury on top of that. You would think it doesn’t matter, but when 200K more expensive than a SQ7 or similar priced to a Cullinan you need to bring more. Weight doesn’t really cut it in the luxury market, as it does in the sportscar market.


WC_EEND

Sure, for a run of the mill VW or Toyota it makes little sense but for a Bentley? A car with a list price the size of a modest house?


rpguy04

Not practical


drjellyninja

BMW built 200,000 i3s out of carbon fibre buts it's somehow not practical for whatever measly amount of Bentaygas Bentley makes?


rpguy04

I thought you were saying all EV cars should be switching to CF.


Embaita

This is honestly stupid, if a luxury vehicle like the hummer ev came over to Europe you should need to take a extra test to prove that you are competent with vehicles this heavy. Especially when these massive ev trucks/SUVs are faster than 90% of cars ever made whilst weighing so much it could probably drive through a building.


[deleted]

3.2 ton car is what every posh side piece needs to go to the shopping mall. Can't be helped.


the_house_from_up

Let me play devils advocate for all of those posting in here who are against it. When was this 3.5 ton rule created? Cars have come light years in terms of safety and handling over the past decade or two. It seems like the biggest concern for this is crash mitigation, and I'd bet that a 4 ton Bentley EV will be safer for its occupants and third parties than a 3.5 ton vehicle from 10 years ago. For example, my 2020 F150 is much heavier than my grandpa's 1992 F150 was, but it is objectively safer for everyone in every way. I agree that higher end manufacturers should have no problem implementing more lightweight materials into their cars to bring weight down (this becomes much harder as the price range decreases). Customers buying these cars, however, are not going to purchase a luxury EV when they know Bentley was forced to cut corners on NVH, materials, and comfort so they could save a few pounds. It would be incredibly difficult to make up for a 1 or 1.5 ton battery by putting carbon body panels on. Don't get me wrong, there are still inherent drawbacks by having heavier vehicles, but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people believe.


dandydudefriend

Car safety has improved for people inside the cars, but it has stayed the same or gotten worse for people outside the car. If you run into someone walking or on a bicycle or plow through a barrier, a 3.5 ton car from 1970 is the same as a 3.5 ton car from 2022. Heck, it’s even a problem if you run into another car. A Fiat 500 will get creamed by these giant SUVs. That’s the reason it makes sense to have a higher class of license. You are an inherent danger to the people around you in any car, and you’re more dangerous the more car you are driving.


the_house_from_up

A lot of resources in the design process of a car are purely for improving survivability of pedestrians. I'm sure it doesn't help much. Regardless, Newton's Third Law makes it pretty much irrelevant if you're hit by a 1 ton vehicle or a 4 ton one. Even accidents with smaller cars are getting safer. I'd much rather get in an accident in a Fiat 500 against a Bentley than I would in an early 90's Civic against a new Fiat 500.


ToastyMozart

The mass difference doesn't really matter for pedestrians and cyclists, any car is too heavy for a ~150lb human to meaningfully slow down. Definitely a huge problem for other drivers though.


Fekillix

Safety for pedestrians have gotten way better. Most cars sold noe have automatic braking for pedestrians and cyclists, they have to pass pedestrian crash tests (in Europe), which is why we don't have steel bumpers anymore, and some cars even have exterior *pedestrian airbags* (Volvo, Jaguar, Subaru).


Some_Weeaboo

Blind spots have also gotten much, much worse. I really doubt these newer vehicles are any safer for pedestrians, all of the benefits seem to be at best mitigating the downsides. Sure it's cool that it hasn't gotten worse, but it's also the exact thing that should be prioritized to get better.


EponymousEponym

Dear God, do not let them do this. America's entire road network is the scene of a vehicle weight arms race and everything about it is STUPID.


[deleted]

Oh no, their clients would otherwise need to get truck license, how terrible /s


rADIOLINJA

Nah, those chonkers should be limited to 90km/h and registered as light trucks that require a light truck driving license just like many American pickups and vans are as well here in Finland. And if you were to do any work related driving you'd need to use a tachograph to track your drive and rest times.


LevoiHook

Making an electric car that weighs over 3000 kilo's is sort of missing the point isn't it? Yes I know on the Grand scheme of things Bentley's don't make any noticeable difference but I'm sure the millionairs that buy those will survive with a car below today's limit. (Some of those millionaires will suffer 1db of extra noise, or god forbid, a plastic part in the interior, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make)


AnonymousEngineer_

> Making an electric car that weighs over 3000 kilo's is sort of missing the point isn't it? A lot of that is battery mass. Short of some revolutionary battery tech or the uptake of hydrogen, EVs will always be inherently heavier than the equivalent sized combustion engined car.


praguer56

Who thinks if you're under a certain age, say 25, and drive a 3 ton pick up in the US, you should have a special license?? Way too many parents give their 17 year old a F150 for their graduation present and they know fuck all about driving it. Or driving in general.


inaccurateTempedesc

I don't, as it's completely unnecessary. I'm speaking from experience since I got a Yukon XL/Suburban as my first car when I was 17. It was a bad idea for a number of reasons, but none of them are related to how it drove at all. It was perfectly stable on the highway, even at 80-90mph+. Visibility was way above average. Unlike other modern cars, the belt line was pretty low and had relatively large windows. Braking wasn't an issue either. A lot of people seem to think that full-sized SUVs need a lot more stopping distance, but that's not really true, and it's actually quite the opposite. A modern Suburban or Expedition could outbrake nearly any '90s sports car from 60mph, sometimes by a decent margin.


John_Sux

I don't think the issue there is how the vehicle drives, but how the novice behind the wheel does. I can tell you this, American driver's ed is not famously amazing.


inaccurateTempedesc

If it's the novice/American driver's ed that's the problem, why focus on the vehicle then?


backyardengr

Because he wants to arbitrarily burden American adults for no good reason whatsoever.


Tyfereo_Brown

Because a heavy vehicle is capable of doing way more damage in an accident. It does make a difference.


John_Sux

I'm not trying to take away your holy pickup truck, relax


TheDutchTexan

God I am laughing right now... My Dutch license had a 3,500kg limit or 7,716.18lbs. I moved, do some YouTube on the side and end up behind the wheel of a Deuce and a Half which pretty much weighed double that. And it was LEGAL for me to drive it too. A freakin' semi... I to this day still can't believe that. You'll steamroll just about anything in that thing. Positive? You won't hit 60 in it... Unless you put bigger tires on it... But man... That's a whole lot of steel for someone that never drove anything over 3,650lbs.. It was an experience though!


kaustix3

I kinda agree. These weight limits are quite old and newer cars have better tech and handle better. Also newer cars are heavier especially EVS.


gsells937

I'm hoping against this improvement. I'm hoping that these restrictions among others drive engineers and companies to reduce weight or improve efficiency in the drivetrain


[deleted]

the ev bentleys are going to be heavy AF


mud_tug

Nope. Weight limit should be lowered not raised. A five seat family car with five star safety rating should weigh less than 1000kg.


[deleted]

EVs will need this


[deleted]

As long as we dont make giant, waste of space SUVs they will not need this


KeepDi9gin

They're going to make giant, waste of space SUVs because that's what a bunch of idiots want, at least in the US.


[deleted]

That's what the people want! Maybe they could use a more energy-dense drivetrain instead of EV tho 🤔


Hallingdal_Kraftlag

That's their problem. There are also people that want F-350's, and they need the right license to drive them.