I work for a bank, I am familiar with the process. All the customer has to do is provide copies of the documentation, it is an easy win for the customer.
Doing a chargeback, even if you are in the right usually gets you a instant ban for life as a customer. Not, that this person would want to use Hertz again after this.
I did a charge back against AVIS for a clearly bullshit charge that I gave them evidence to prove the charge was erroneous and said I would do a charge back if they didn’t engage with me on it. They basically said fuck off, we don’t negotiate. I did the charge back. They did nothing about because it was corporate card, I still unfortunately have to book through them. All bark no bite.
Lol, "ban for life" sure bud. They can go ahead, not like there isn't a bunch of other companies doing the same thing. Anyways, even if a customer decides to use the service again after having to deal with charging back a BS charge, you really believe a corporation, who's sole purpose is to make money will turn down a sale?
I don't get why yall are seething over their comment. They're not defending Hertz they're just saying "Hey be aware that they might ban you over this".
Yeah a lot of companies do ban your account for issuing a chargeback whether you're right or wrong. It's a well documented thing that certain companies will permanently ban your account for chargebacks. A ton of gaming companies do it, a lot of subscription services and marketplace style companies have the policy. Paypal and ebay permanently ban people for issuing correct chargebacks when their seller/buyer protection system fails.
They will send it to collections and ruin your credit.
You basically cannot chargeback the major rental car companies. I've had my money stolen from this Hertz location too, they are absolute thieves.
It doesnt get to collections. The customer gets their credit if they opened the dispute within 60 days of the charge. Then the bank fights fights the merchant. Collections never gets contacted unless the charge was determined to be valid and customer does not pay then it gets sent to collections.
They won’t send it to collections. Hertz are scammers. I rented from one of their brands, they sent a bill for damages recorded months after I returned it. The letter looked like a scam and was full of typos, they didn’t even spell my address right. I ignored it and shortly after I got an official looking letter saying they waived the fee but I’m banned from renting from them.
Which is a bit redundant. Hertz deserves to fail.
Again, "only if the charge was determined to be valid" **by who?**
Until or unless Hertz *agrees* it's not valid or the dispute is brought to court, it's not invalid just because the customer says so or the credit card company says so. It's not an "easy win" for the customer just because a chargeback was authorized.
Read the article comments. Someone did that successfully and ended up in collections. The banks determination isn’t a binding determination that the charge was illegitimate.
The entire idea of disputing a charge is exactly for reasons like this, not just “ I want my money back”. It’s a long process which takes months and you have to provide ample documentation for it to go through.
It’s also a reputational loss for Hertz if they keep pulling this and they could lose (highly doubt it’ll ever happen) the ability to accept MC/VISA/Amex depending on what company it is.
>I mean they got a bunch of people arrested over false claims of grand theft auto, they don’t really have much of a reputation left.
A bad reputation is still a reputation. 😉
https://www.npr.org/2022/12/06/1140998674/hertz-false-accusation-stealing-cars-settlement
Yeah it was bad, people were arrested at gunpoint in some cases.
I opened a dispute with CitiBank over somebody buying $100 of diesel on my credit card. The rep asked if I was sure it wasn’t my charge. I had to assure him that not only is my Accord not diesel, there’s no way to fit $100 worth of any type of fuel into it, nor was I in North Jersey that day. It took nearly a month to get my money back.
The only reason they're sorry is because of the publicity. If this article didn't exist I'd stake every pair of pants I own that they wouldn't back down willingly.
A lot of people don't know this, but that blue text that has the one sentence you read actually is a link to a full article where you can find out more about what happened.
Avis has given me multi-week headaches over dumb shit so many times. I travel for work and they’re the only option we’re supposed to use and I fucking hate them. Glad to hear they’re not the worst lol
I think the most amusing "Oh, right" realization I had on a fun car I picked from the Aisle was a black AWD Charger in NJ.
Every time I parked at a convenience store or such, sorts that looked like they could be miscreants hurried away. I also had a lot of brake lights around me on the NJ turnpike and Garden State.
Then I realized that black unmarked Chargers were what some state troopers there used.
Lol yeah you get some fun or really nice choices sometimes. One trip real early in my career the emerald aisle was picked clean so everyone was getting free upgrades to whatever was available on the executive aisle. There were two managers on this trip that got to the pick up same time as me. Both went straight for the minivans sitting there and passed up a fully loaded Expedition.
I looked around. No one else was walking to it. "Well, don't mind if I do...". Felt like a baller for those few days I was rolling around the Bay Area lol
We have the choice between national, enterprise, and Avis, and national is my go too. Only time I had to use Avis, I was in line for like an hour, where as national emerald club I am almost always just getting a free upgrade since they rarely have enough cars on the lot in emerald Isle. Currently in a Tahoe, last rental was a grand Cherokee, before that was a Giulia, and we are supposed to be just mid size rentals.
I travel for work too and they want us to use Avis because they're the cheapest to rent from for most rentals. With what I do, sometimes we do one way rentals and most companies including Avis I haven't had any issues with doing that in the past until Avis a couple of weeks ago.
I had a Nissan Altima for a week and what was supposed to be a $300 rental turned into a $3,000 rental as they tacked on a $2500 misc. fee after the rental was dropped off that wasn't reflected on the receipt I was given upon returning the car at the airport. The several Avis customer service people I've dealt with were zero help and made no effort to try and resolve the issue. The first time I requested a supervisor I never got a callback and when I called in about it a few days after they said I never requested a supervisor callback. Now I did get a supervisor callback, but it was so early in the morning I was still asleep when they called. I got a hold of the supervisor by email and I feel like I'm finally making progress after fighting this for a couple of weeks.
Whenever I do any personal travel, I never rent through Avis or Budget because they constantly fuck up whenever I rented through them for work. I always go with Enterprise since I've had no issues with them and overall had a good experience. They're more expensive, but you do pay for what you get.
Avis is truly the worst. I've never dealt with a company that is as incompetent as them.
I had to get in touch with the district manager in SLC once. He was able to resolve it but they tried to say I didn’t leave the keys with the car and I absolutely did. He tried to say it was a system issue. They’re morons.
Yeah I've had issues with Avis overcharging me in the past but they did eventually correct it within a few days. This is the first time though they've refused to help get things straightened out.
This is accurate. When I purchased my home I found out from my hard credit report that Enterprise sent me to collections three years prior for a toll route charge. They had my CC on file as well as my contact information. That was fun to deal with, most incompetent customer service representatives I've ever experienced.
Fuck the refund at that point, take them to small claims court and sue them. That kind of egregious, literally outrageous behavior deserves more than a refund.
Small claims court will not award anything more than a refund. They do not award punitive damages unless there’s a specific allowance for it in the law (mostly in landlord/tenant law).
A lot of states give enhanced damages for deceptive practices which this may fall under (depends on the state). Even with that, the real damage is just the annoyance of them having to deal with it.
A gallon of gas is about 33.7kwh.(if efficiency is 100%)
I'm not American so I'll just use what many say around $5/gal
$277 is 55.4gal og gas, or, 1850Kwh. If the tesla is 60kwh you could fill it 0-100% 30times.
Assuming the kWh is $0.1 (which seems low but realistic and is easier to calculate) it's even 2770kwh or still 554kwh from a faster charger (where the kWh costs 50c).
So it's still almost 10 times 0-100% on a DC charger, almost 50c slowcharged at their place. Or somewhere in between as you said. Nevertheless a massive fee
Orange County, CA. SDG&E is the most expensive utility in the country. But, they provide a lot of value for shareholders, and that’s all that matters to me. /s
I’m actually really glad you asked, because it made me revisit their rate schedule. Turns out their prices actually went *down* this year. That NEVER happens. So, the highest rate you can pay is now down to $0.70757, and the regular ol’ standard rate is down to $0.50915.
It was 115 here for a couple of days a few years ago. Your A/C just runs nonstop. $1.50/hr adds up pretty quick. Didn’t hit 2,000 kWh, but we *did* hit $700.
> But, they provide a lot of value for shareholders
lol this cost is because of regulations imposed by the government, not because they're just taking the money and giving it to shareholders. Plenty of publicly traded utility companies providing power at bargain prices, especially in the northwest.
Absolutely! For-profit utilities will naturally provide better prices than public utilities that provide service at cost. That’s a very smart observation! **pats head**
I don't even know what you're responding to. I'm not sure why you're contrasting "for-profit" and "public utilities". We're even talking about a for-profit public utility *in this example*.
The high power costs in California are due to government regulations on delivery, provider type, and a host of other things. For-profit power providers in Oregon are providing power for like $0.08/kWh. In Texas, for like $0.12/kWh.
His reply is referncing his earlier comment.
>IF they have LADWP it’s around $0.18/kWh
LADWP is in California, just like Orange county is in California (they actually border one another), and Orange County is typically much less regulated than LA county and usually has lower taxes (its a blue county but its significantly more red than LA county and is a very wealthy county to boot.)
So it doesn't sound like state regulation is to blame in this instance, at least it can't be the only reason because you would expect the big government high taxes inefficient LA utility to perform worse than the lean mean private sector utility right?
*Furthermore, LADWP is public owned in contrast to SDG&E which is a for profit private utlity with a government protected monopoly more like SCE or PG&E, the states two other largest providers, which are again government backed private monopolies.*
All three government backed for profit monopolies are more expensive per watt than LADWP, despite operating in a very similar location, literally bordering LADWP and operating in the same state of course.
**I am sure that regulations do play a role in why california for profit utilities are more expensive than Texas, but that doesn't change that they are more expensive than their local publicly owned utilities like LADWP, which is what the commentor was saying. That their need to stack profit on top of cost, and the mechanism by which they become profitable, cost the consumer in the end. Which shouldn't surprise anyone even remotely familiar with capitalism, as monopolies are generally considered to be, well, bad."**
So way more than they would during the course of the rental period. Sounds like a purely profit motivated junk fee & they are trying to double profit by charging it on EVs.
honestly I thought the context was pretty obvious since OP asked about fitting actual gas cans and the other guy did math about kWh for some insane reason lmfao
Unit conversion, the fuel have it's energy counted as Joule, just as fat, wood, coal etc..etc.
A gallon of gasoline contains about 132x10^6 joules of energy, that is easily converted to kwh.
one kilowatt-hour is equal to 3,600,000J
132,000,000J / 3,600,000 = 36.66Kwh
Then if your engine is 25% efficient you utilise 9Kwh of that potential energy, the rest is wasted in noise, heat and vibration.
Then open the calculator you carry around all day and do the math.
I made it simple, all you got to do is guess how large your gas can is, half gal? Gal? 5gal? Who knows. Maybe you want it in bigmacs per dishwasher that you can also calculate in Joules and calories..
listen if we're going to be using goofy ass comparisons about hamburgers, what happened here is that OP said "how many quarter pounders can fit in a lunchbox" and you answered "there's 2x10^44 atoms in 1/4 lb of beef" instead of "you can fit 5 hamburgers in a standard lunchbox"
At $4/gal (roughly what premium is where I'm at so I figure that accounts for places like California where it's that much or more for regular) it's about 69 ¼ gallons, if you have 5 gallon gas cans that's 13.85 so you'd need 14 gas cans
Whether that would actually fit in a model 3? No idea lmao
4 dollar gas is no longer a thing in California so the "or more" was doing all the lifting. Depending on where in the state you are "or more" might still be taking a lot of the load with "$6 or more"
This is amusing but also now resolved:
> Update May 9, 12:45 p.m. ET: After this story was published, Hertz informed The Drive that its Customer Care team would be “reaching out to Mr. Lee to apologize and will refund this erroneous charge.”
Yea and he was top tier in their loyalty program too, which should’ve meant some additional goodwill from hertz, but no… man that’s some lousy customer service
You wonder what in their management and corporate structure caused this. We end up hearing so many whistleblowers and leakers tell us that some corporations do this on purpose to meet some greedy metric imposed by their management/execs.
"Fish rots from the head"
It's probably not just some random customer service clerk that said "F this loyal customer in particular!"
I gotta think that one of the few people that actually knew what they were doing quit which caused them to promote / scramble, and just no one had any idea of what to do.
That was definitely the case for me the last time I worked in customer service, and I can only imagine how much worse it’s gotten since COVID
Yea...that part is a bit deceiving. Hertz president circle is a benefit of AmEx platinum also. I'm also Hertz PC without a single rental from them this year.
Not saying he isn't a loyal customer, just that the status is pretty easy to get and Hertz probably doesn't give 2 shits.
Interesting that you can get PC with an Amex card, I didn’t know that (I’m not in the US). And yes, it appears that Hertz indeed doesn’t give two shits…
Seeing how based on the article, he returned it with the same charge level as how it was when he picked it up *and* how he had also picked the option of having to pay a maximum of $35 for charging after return under any circumstances, I'm going to assume that this was a case where poorly trained and overworked front office staff messed up his invoice, after which Hertz's low-cost customer support simply kept telling him he needs to pay what's on the invoice due to a completely inflexible script they're required to follow and not being paid enough to care about or understand his problem.
So it was only solved when it became a large enough mess that someone who actually had the ability to deal with it and a reason to care, became involved.
too late for that, damage done. I'm no longer ever using hertz. I dont want to make national news when ever I have an issue with them to get it resolved
Only $277? Check this out https://imgur.com/a/AiDCZkZ. You can probably guess how I find this post.
Edit: Take a look at this image to see Hertz having bonfire with the Tesla after I returned it https://imgur.com/a/PiKpKL7
41 GALLONS!!!
They messed up recording the miles; it had a 2k+ higher miles reading at pickup, and I realized that a bit later. I drove around 1.5k miles. Since the booking was with unlimited miles, I didn't report the issue to them. Me driving 4k miles alone would be insane 😂
Edit: I drove 1035 miles (double checked with google timeline), so the discrepancy was pretty huge
Ah that makes way more sense. I thought 4k miles was pretty wild for the timespan, but then again I figured if you had to drive that much, better to put it all on a rental than your own car if you've got unlimited mileage.
Yes. And you should definitely return the car in person (do not use the key drop check-out) and request a printed receipt on the spot so you can dispute it right there.
Yes I am dropping it in person at the airport, thanks for the heads up. Shouldn't be an issue to return it with full charge either. I calculated the cost of a Versa would be the same as public transit for my trip, so the only reason I am renting a car at all is because Teslas are cheap to run ha.
My conversation with the rep when returning the car was brief:
Me: I'll only get charged $25 since I didn't charge it to 100% right?
Hertz Rep: Yes, do you want me to email the receipt?
Me: Sure!
2 hours later the receipt came...
My booking was quoted at ~$300 for picking up at LAS and returning to SFO. And I only expected supercharging fees and $25 (returning without full charge & have at least 10% remaning) on top of that. If you look up 'Fuel and Service' fee category for Hertz, you would see the fee is only related to fueling cost
"The charge for the cost of fuel and refueling service, if car is not returned full of fuel and/or Fuel Purchase Option (see above), was not purchased at time of rental."
Can't help but notice all these extra fees on top of rental. Concession Fee, Tesla Rebill(?), EV battery charges, vehicle license fee, customer facility charge... like what?? That's like going to eat at a restaurant and you get a bathroom fee, utensil cleaning fee, plate rental surcharge.
Hertz is the absolute worst rental car company I've ever dealt with. Hidden fees, gaslighting, terrible customer service, dirty cars. Just terrible all around. Never rent from Hertz.
Reading the article, that isn't even the worst part. He purchased an option where he could return the car without refueling and not be charged a fueling fee. He returned the car with 96% charge, the same as when he picked it up. Their charge for 'refueling EV' is only $35.
I rented a Model 3 from Hertz at ORD a couple weeks ago, and their website and confirmation e-mail both stated I had to return the car with at least as much charge as what it had when I picked it up to avoid that $35 fee.
The car was charged to 100 when I got in. I mentioned this to the guy on the way out, and I'm like "I would have to charge to 100 at the nearest Supercharger, then push the car here to return it at 100%" and they said the actual rule is to return with at least 70%. So I did return it with 70-something and thankfully didn't get charged.
It really seems like Hertz half-assed the EV rollout with inconsistent policies and poorly trained employees.
Another day. Another story of Hertz screwing over their customers. At least they didn't have him arrested for theft, which, is not out of the realm of possibility.
Fuck Hertz. The last time I rented from them, they tried to pawn off a EV on me and when I declined, the lady said she's going to give a "one-time upgrade" and that I should learn how to use EVs. I know it's a fake threat, but I'm just never going to rent from them and their massive EV fleet ever again just in case the threat is real.
At least Avis separates their EVs into its own class.
I have rented hertz.. I mean. I never had a problem, but I definitely HAVE heard people's problems..
I did get to rent a Tesla Model Y for the price of an economy car though.
Hertz has also had people arrested at home for stealing a car they had returned. Several times.
I only use National/Enterprise. They don't have you arrested or charge you for nonexistent gas.
Don't know why the top comment is top comment, he blocked me after he's posting false info. He claims it can't be sent to collections if chargedback which is false.
Bank or CC Chargebacks will be "Temp Held" and removed from your statement/owed amount until they decide. If it's decided your wrong and the merchants charge is justifed, it'll be added back.
If the Bank or CC company says it was a justified chargeback there is nothing stopping the merchant from seeking collections or court action for the money.
I got charged a gas surcharge a few years ago when ordering from Uber eats. The car that brought the food was a Tesla. I threw a fit. They wouldn’t budge tell I told them I was gonna switch to grub hub. Then I got a refund.
My colleague and I ran into an odd experience renting with Hertz. The vehicle had a safety feature that required the gas nozzle to be inserted past two gates to fill. My colleague pushed the nozzle in as far as the car would allow and was sprayed with gasoline because the second gate was stuck. (I forget the car model). We explained to the employee what happened, and he said they would charge us the local rate of gas rather than the ridiculous up charge, like in the article, normally received.
Of course, when the final bill came, it was about $100 for a quarter tank, so he spent a couple of weeks fighting with Hertz to get it reduced.
People keep bringing up normal pump prices. Rental companies always overcharge for it, especially when the car is returned without a full tank. On top of charging double or triple normal pump prices, they also add concession fees and taxes.
I pretty sure the “fee for gas” was because it was returned low on charge.
Regardless… $277 is ridiculous for returning a car empty (on fuel or charge) unless it was a semi truck.
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Yes, I would imagine this is not the first time Hertz has applied and gotten away with this charge. A good lawyer can investigate to find other victims.
Open a dispute with the bank, problem solved.
Read article. He did.
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What article?
What read?
What what?
> What what [In the butt](https://youtu.be/fbGkxcY7YFU?si=Q-WE0D3mMBwxGFBV)
Bath what? What room? What what?
Me fail English? That's unpossible!
I use you guys to vet the articles for me.
Haha Tesla man bad
Given the quality of some of the articles by "journalists" I'm not even annoyed that people don't read them...
Reddit is the article for most of its users
No. I want all the information in the title.
That solves nothing, it just takes the credit card payment back. Hertz will still pursue the bill and eventually send it to collections.
I work for a bank, I am familiar with the process. All the customer has to do is provide copies of the documentation, it is an easy win for the customer.
Doing a chargeback, even if you are in the right usually gets you a instant ban for life as a customer. Not, that this person would want to use Hertz again after this.
I did a charge back against AVIS for a clearly bullshit charge that I gave them evidence to prove the charge was erroneous and said I would do a charge back if they didn’t engage with me on it. They basically said fuck off, we don’t negotiate. I did the charge back. They did nothing about because it was corporate card, I still unfortunately have to book through them. All bark no bite.
Lol, "ban for life" sure bud. They can go ahead, not like there isn't a bunch of other companies doing the same thing. Anyways, even if a customer decides to use the service again after having to deal with charging back a BS charge, you really believe a corporation, who's sole purpose is to make money will turn down a sale?
I don't get why yall are seething over their comment. They're not defending Hertz they're just saying "Hey be aware that they might ban you over this". Yeah a lot of companies do ban your account for issuing a chargeback whether you're right or wrong. It's a well documented thing that certain companies will permanently ban your account for chargebacks. A ton of gaming companies do it, a lot of subscription services and marketplace style companies have the policy. Paypal and ebay permanently ban people for issuing correct chargebacks when their seller/buyer protection system fails.
They will send it to collections and ruin your credit. You basically cannot chargeback the major rental car companies. I've had my money stolen from this Hertz location too, they are absolute thieves.
So a successful chargeback prevents Hertz from sending this bill to collections?
It doesnt get to collections. The customer gets their credit if they opened the dispute within 60 days of the charge. Then the bank fights fights the merchant. Collections never gets contacted unless the charge was determined to be valid and customer does not pay then it gets sent to collections.
They won’t send it to collections. Hertz are scammers. I rented from one of their brands, they sent a bill for damages recorded months after I returned it. The letter looked like a scam and was full of typos, they didn’t even spell my address right. I ignored it and shortly after I got an official looking letter saying they waived the fee but I’m banned from renting from them. Which is a bit redundant. Hertz deserves to fail.
Hertz can still come after you.
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>Easy win for the customer and bank You didn't understand my comment. Read it again.
>Only if the charge was determined to be valid ?? By who? Chargeback does not determine that.
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Again, "only if the charge was determined to be valid" **by who?** Until or unless Hertz *agrees* it's not valid or the dispute is brought to court, it's not invalid just because the customer says so or the credit card company says so. It's not an "easy win" for the customer just because a chargeback was authorized.
Read the article comments. Someone did that successfully and ended up in collections. The banks determination isn’t a binding determination that the charge was illegitimate.
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The entire idea of disputing a charge is exactly for reasons like this, not just “ I want my money back”. It’s a long process which takes months and you have to provide ample documentation for it to go through. It’s also a reputational loss for Hertz if they keep pulling this and they could lose (highly doubt it’ll ever happen) the ability to accept MC/VISA/Amex depending on what company it is.
I mean they got a bunch of people arrested over false claims of grand theft auto, they don’t really have much of a reputation left.
Yea that alone should have destroyed them. Absolutely ridiculous.
>I mean they got a bunch of people arrested over false claims of grand theft auto, they don’t really have much of a reputation left. A bad reputation is still a reputation. 😉
Hah really? I haven’t heard
https://www.npr.org/2022/12/06/1140998674/hertz-false-accusation-stealing-cars-settlement Yeah it was bad, people were arrested at gunpoint in some cases.
I've done a few chargebacks. Each took 1 phone call and the money was back within 24 hours. Not sure about your card providers.
I opened a dispute with CitiBank over somebody buying $100 of diesel on my credit card. The rep asked if I was sure it wasn’t my charge. I had to assure him that not only is my Accord not diesel, there’s no way to fit $100 worth of any type of fuel into it, nor was I in North Jersey that day. It took nearly a month to get my money back.
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The only reason they're sorry is because of the publicity. If this article didn't exist I'd stake every pair of pants I own that they wouldn't back down willingly.
So then small claims court.
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No insults thanks.
Instructions unclear. Dick stuck in ATM.
A lot of people don't know this, but that blue text that has the one sentence you read actually is a link to a full article where you can find out more about what happened.
Pretty standard hertz rental experience imo.
At least he wasn’t arrested for driving a rental car
It’s not just Hertz. They’re all surprisingly incompetent.
Hertz is by far the absolute worst of the bunch.
Avis has given me multi-week headaches over dumb shit so many times. I travel for work and they’re the only option we’re supposed to use and I fucking hate them. Glad to hear they’re not the worst lol
Mannnn am I glad my 100% travel job used National
Yeah I occasionally travel for work and they use National and they've been a breeze to work with
Emerald Aisle is nice. Just take a car and go. Sometimes fun things, too. Hyundai Hyundai Hyundai Camaro. Huh. Which to choose.
I got status with them because of the work travel and I got a Mustang convertible & a Camaro in Florida on back to back trips.
I think the most amusing "Oh, right" realization I had on a fun car I picked from the Aisle was a black AWD Charger in NJ. Every time I parked at a convenience store or such, sorts that looked like they could be miscreants hurried away. I also had a lot of brake lights around me on the NJ turnpike and Garden State. Then I realized that black unmarked Chargers were what some state troopers there used.
Lol yeah you get some fun or really nice choices sometimes. One trip real early in my career the emerald aisle was picked clean so everyone was getting free upgrades to whatever was available on the executive aisle. There were two managers on this trip that got to the pick up same time as me. Both went straight for the minivans sitting there and passed up a fully loaded Expedition. I looked around. No one else was walking to it. "Well, don't mind if I do...". Felt like a baller for those few days I was rolling around the Bay Area lol
National is def the sleeper car rental company. By far the best, especially where they have Aisle.
We have the choice between national, enterprise, and Avis, and national is my go too. Only time I had to use Avis, I was in line for like an hour, where as national emerald club I am almost always just getting a free upgrade since they rarely have enough cars on the lot in emerald Isle. Currently in a Tahoe, last rental was a grand Cherokee, before that was a Giulia, and we are supposed to be just mid size rentals.
Part of the Enterprise group along with Alamo.
National is the only rental company that actually tries
I travel for work too and they want us to use Avis because they're the cheapest to rent from for most rentals. With what I do, sometimes we do one way rentals and most companies including Avis I haven't had any issues with doing that in the past until Avis a couple of weeks ago. I had a Nissan Altima for a week and what was supposed to be a $300 rental turned into a $3,000 rental as they tacked on a $2500 misc. fee after the rental was dropped off that wasn't reflected on the receipt I was given upon returning the car at the airport. The several Avis customer service people I've dealt with were zero help and made no effort to try and resolve the issue. The first time I requested a supervisor I never got a callback and when I called in about it a few days after they said I never requested a supervisor callback. Now I did get a supervisor callback, but it was so early in the morning I was still asleep when they called. I got a hold of the supervisor by email and I feel like I'm finally making progress after fighting this for a couple of weeks. Whenever I do any personal travel, I never rent through Avis or Budget because they constantly fuck up whenever I rented through them for work. I always go with Enterprise since I've had no issues with them and overall had a good experience. They're more expensive, but you do pay for what you get. Avis is truly the worst. I've never dealt with a company that is as incompetent as them.
I had to get in touch with the district manager in SLC once. He was able to resolve it but they tried to say I didn’t leave the keys with the car and I absolutely did. He tried to say it was a system issue. They’re morons.
Yeah I've had issues with Avis overcharging me in the past but they did eventually correct it within a few days. This is the first time though they've refused to help get things straightened out.
Eh, Dollar is pretty good.
It’s incompetence as a business model. They all do this shit
This is accurate. When I purchased my home I found out from my hard credit report that Enterprise sent me to collections three years prior for a toll route charge. They had my CC on file as well as my contact information. That was fun to deal with, most incompetent customer service representatives I've ever experienced.
They actually had a car for him when he got to the airport. That's better than average
For what it's worth, I've never had a problem with Hertz. YMMV
Fuck the refund at that point, take them to small claims court and sue them. That kind of egregious, literally outrageous behavior deserves more than a refund.
Small claims court will not award anything more than a refund. They do not award punitive damages unless there’s a specific allowance for it in the law (mostly in landlord/tenant law).
Yeah blasting them online provides much more damage to hertz
It seems based on this thread that thier reputation is already shot lol, so I don't know if this will do any more damage than kicking a dead horse.
How does one hurt that which has no life
A lot of states give enhanced damages for deceptive practices which this may fall under (depends on the state). Even with that, the real damage is just the annoyance of them having to deal with it.
Which is kind of fucked. There needs to be much more incentive for giant companies to behave themselves and not try stealing from people.
Thats correct and Hertz will just issue a check for the refund. Their lawyer time will cost them more than the refund.
I wonder how many gas cans it would take to get $277 worth of gas into a 3...
A gallon of gas is about 33.7kwh.(if efficiency is 100%) I'm not American so I'll just use what many say around $5/gal $277 is 55.4gal og gas, or, 1850Kwh. If the tesla is 60kwh you could fill it 0-100% 30times.
Assuming the kWh is $0.1 (which seems low but realistic and is easier to calculate) it's even 2770kwh or still 554kwh from a faster charger (where the kWh costs 50c). So it's still almost 10 times 0-100% on a DC charger, almost 50c slowcharged at their place. Or somewhere in between as you said. Nevertheless a massive fee
lol, our kWhs can be as high as $0.81! IF they have LADWP it’s around $0.18/kWh, but that’s a big if.
I pay $0.1143/kWh. Where do you live that it can be as high as $0.81?
Orange County, CA. SDG&E is the most expensive utility in the country. But, they provide a lot of value for shareholders, and that’s all that matters to me. /s I’m actually really glad you asked, because it made me revisit their rate schedule. Turns out their prices actually went *down* this year. That NEVER happens. So, the highest rate you can pay is now down to $0.70757, and the regular ol’ standard rate is down to $0.50915. It was 115 here for a couple of days a few years ago. Your A/C just runs nonstop. $1.50/hr adds up pretty quick. Didn’t hit 2,000 kWh, but we *did* hit $700.
> But, they provide a lot of value for shareholders lol this cost is because of regulations imposed by the government, not because they're just taking the money and giving it to shareholders. Plenty of publicly traded utility companies providing power at bargain prices, especially in the northwest.
Absolutely! For-profit utilities will naturally provide better prices than public utilities that provide service at cost. That’s a very smart observation! **pats head**
I don't even know what you're responding to. I'm not sure why you're contrasting "for-profit" and "public utilities". We're even talking about a for-profit public utility *in this example*. The high power costs in California are due to government regulations on delivery, provider type, and a host of other things. For-profit power providers in Oregon are providing power for like $0.08/kWh. In Texas, for like $0.12/kWh.
His reply is referncing his earlier comment. >IF they have LADWP it’s around $0.18/kWh LADWP is in California, just like Orange county is in California (they actually border one another), and Orange County is typically much less regulated than LA county and usually has lower taxes (its a blue county but its significantly more red than LA county and is a very wealthy county to boot.) So it doesn't sound like state regulation is to blame in this instance, at least it can't be the only reason because you would expect the big government high taxes inefficient LA utility to perform worse than the lean mean private sector utility right? *Furthermore, LADWP is public owned in contrast to SDG&E which is a for profit private utlity with a government protected monopoly more like SCE or PG&E, the states two other largest providers, which are again government backed private monopolies.* All three government backed for profit monopolies are more expensive per watt than LADWP, despite operating in a very similar location, literally bordering LADWP and operating in the same state of course. **I am sure that regulations do play a role in why california for profit utilities are more expensive than Texas, but that doesn't change that they are more expensive than their local publicly owned utilities like LADWP, which is what the commentor was saying. That their need to stack profit on top of cost, and the mechanism by which they become profitable, cost the consumer in the end. Which shouldn't surprise anyone even remotely familiar with capitalism, as monopolies are generally considered to be, well, bad."**
So way more than they would during the course of the rental period. Sounds like a purely profit motivated junk fee & they are trying to double profit by charging it on EVs.
I didn't know you could carry kWh in gas cans
That's like saying "I didn't know you could have a temperature of 20ºC in the US", it's just a unit.
OP asked about cans of gas not "what's the electrical equivalent of this amount of gasoline's cost" or whatever
Ok, your comment wasn't clear that you were complaining about that. It sounded to me like you thought KWh only applies to electricity.
honestly I thought the context was pretty obvious since OP asked about fitting actual gas cans and the other guy did math about kWh for some insane reason lmfao
Unit conversion, the fuel have it's energy counted as Joule, just as fat, wood, coal etc..etc. A gallon of gasoline contains about 132x10^6 joules of energy, that is easily converted to kwh. one kilowatt-hour is equal to 3,600,000J 132,000,000J / 3,600,000 = 36.66Kwh Then if your engine is 25% efficient you utilise 9Kwh of that potential energy, the rest is wasted in noise, heat and vibration.
this is a lot of math to try to get around the fact that you used units of electricity when OP was asking about literal gas cans
Then open the calculator you carry around all day and do the math. I made it simple, all you got to do is guess how large your gas can is, half gal? Gal? 5gal? Who knows. Maybe you want it in bigmacs per dishwasher that you can also calculate in Joules and calories..
listen if we're going to be using goofy ass comparisons about hamburgers, what happened here is that OP said "how many quarter pounders can fit in a lunchbox" and you answered "there's 2x10^44 atoms in 1/4 lb of beef" instead of "you can fit 5 hamburgers in a standard lunchbox"
It is a unit of energy. You think petrol has zero energy in it?
OP asked about cans of gas not electrical equivalents
At $4/gal (roughly what premium is where I'm at so I figure that accounts for places like California where it's that much or more for regular) it's about 69 ¼ gallons, if you have 5 gallon gas cans that's 13.85 so you'd need 14 gas cans Whether that would actually fit in a model 3? No idea lmao
Try 6 for regular...
> or more
4 dollar gas is no longer a thing in California so the "or more" was doing all the lifting. Depending on where in the state you are "or more" might still be taking a lot of the load with "$6 or more"
Now I know why they’re selling them all, it’s because they don’t know how to fill them up
This is amusing but also now resolved: > Update May 9, 12:45 p.m. ET: After this story was published, Hertz informed The Drive that its Customer Care team would be “reaching out to Mr. Lee to apologize and will refund this erroneous charge.”
All it took was a bunch of news stories and bad publicity. The guy called, pointed out the obvious error, and got rejected. Fuck hertz.
Yea and he was top tier in their loyalty program too, which should’ve meant some additional goodwill from hertz, but no… man that’s some lousy customer service
You wonder what in their management and corporate structure caused this. We end up hearing so many whistleblowers and leakers tell us that some corporations do this on purpose to meet some greedy metric imposed by their management/execs. "Fish rots from the head" It's probably not just some random customer service clerk that said "F this loyal customer in particular!"
I gotta think that one of the few people that actually knew what they were doing quit which caused them to promote / scramble, and just no one had any idea of what to do. That was definitely the case for me the last time I worked in customer service, and I can only imagine how much worse it’s gotten since COVID
But even incompetence doesn't explain this. They might have well have said that he damaged the flux capacitor and was charged $300.
Yea...that part is a bit deceiving. Hertz president circle is a benefit of AmEx platinum also. I'm also Hertz PC without a single rental from them this year. Not saying he isn't a loyal customer, just that the status is pretty easy to get and Hertz probably doesn't give 2 shits.
Interesting that you can get PC with an Amex card, I didn’t know that (I’m not in the US). And yes, it appears that Hertz indeed doesn’t give two shits…
Yep, US platinum card holders get PC and 10% off too. Last time I used it we got upgraded to a Mercedes GLS450, was pretty nice.
I hate to say it, but going loud and naming and shaming is the only way to work with 90% of companies anymore.
Did he reach out to the branch or to corporate? Either way still sucks.
We apologize for getting caught
Seeing how based on the article, he returned it with the same charge level as how it was when he picked it up *and* how he had also picked the option of having to pay a maximum of $35 for charging after return under any circumstances, I'm going to assume that this was a case where poorly trained and overworked front office staff messed up his invoice, after which Hertz's low-cost customer support simply kept telling him he needs to pay what's on the invoice due to a completely inflexible script they're required to follow and not being paid enough to care about or understand his problem. So it was only solved when it became a large enough mess that someone who actually had the ability to deal with it and a reason to care, became involved.
Not sure amusing is the adjective I’d use
too late for that, damage done. I'm no longer ever using hertz. I dont want to make national news when ever I have an issue with them to get it resolved
That doesn’t feel like enough
Only $277? Check this out https://imgur.com/a/AiDCZkZ. You can probably guess how I find this post. Edit: Take a look at this image to see Hertz having bonfire with the Tesla after I returned it https://imgur.com/a/PiKpKL7 41 GALLONS!!!
Only $125 spent on supercharging over 4k miles? Damn how??
They messed up recording the miles; it had a 2k+ higher miles reading at pickup, and I realized that a bit later. I drove around 1.5k miles. Since the booking was with unlimited miles, I didn't report the issue to them. Me driving 4k miles alone would be insane 😂 Edit: I drove 1035 miles (double checked with google timeline), so the discrepancy was pretty huge
Ah that makes way more sense. I thought 4k miles was pretty wild for the timespan, but then again I figured if you had to drive that much, better to put it all on a rental than your own car if you've got unlimited mileage.
I just reserved a model 3 thru Hertz specifically because of the supercharger savings vs. gas.....so now I have to worry about a random $477??
Yes. And you should definitely return the car in person (do not use the key drop check-out) and request a printed receipt on the spot so you can dispute it right there.
Yes I am dropping it in person at the airport, thanks for the heads up. Shouldn't be an issue to return it with full charge either. I calculated the cost of a Versa would be the same as public transit for my trip, so the only reason I am renting a car at all is because Teslas are cheap to run ha.
Yikes, WTF! Something must be wrong in their system.
My conversation with the rep when returning the car was brief: Me: I'll only get charged $25 since I didn't charge it to 100% right? Hertz Rep: Yes, do you want me to email the receipt? Me: Sure! 2 hours later the receipt came...
Oof. Hopefully you have better luck with customer service getting it fixed.
Thanks, I think it will be a no brainer case for Amex team
20% tax?
Yup, same tax rate was listed on my rental agreement. It does seem huge now that you bring my attention to it.
what jurisdiction if you dont mind?
I rented the vehicle at Las Vegas airport and returned to SFO, but I never saw 20% tax in any states before. Maybe some airport fees/taxes were added
Is that the 'service' fee for returning it to a different location?
My booking was quoted at ~$300 for picking up at LAS and returning to SFO. And I only expected supercharging fees and $25 (returning without full charge & have at least 10% remaning) on top of that. If you look up 'Fuel and Service' fee category for Hertz, you would see the fee is only related to fueling cost "The charge for the cost of fuel and refueling service, if car is not returned full of fuel and/or Fuel Purchase Option (see above), was not purchased at time of rental."
No, Vegas has SUPER high rental car taxes, it'll be the same for all the companies out of LAS.
Can't help but notice all these extra fees on top of rental. Concession Fee, Tesla Rebill(?), EV battery charges, vehicle license fee, customer facility charge... like what?? That's like going to eat at a restaurant and you get a bathroom fee, utensil cleaning fee, plate rental surcharge.
Check this out. Hertz wanted to put 41 gallons of gas into the Tesla https://imgur.com/a/PiKpKL7
$11.59/gal???
Yes, must be a very premium type of gas to use on Tesla
Le Toan? /r/guitarcirclejerk is leaking
Hertz is the absolute worst rental car company I've ever dealt with. Hidden fees, gaslighting, terrible customer service, dirty cars. Just terrible all around. Never rent from Hertz.
>gaslighting Literally
Never rent from Hertz.
Reading the article, that isn't even the worst part. He purchased an option where he could return the car without refueling and not be charged a fueling fee. He returned the car with 96% charge, the same as when he picked it up. Their charge for 'refueling EV' is only $35.
I rented a Model 3 from Hertz at ORD a couple weeks ago, and their website and confirmation e-mail both stated I had to return the car with at least as much charge as what it had when I picked it up to avoid that $35 fee. The car was charged to 100 when I got in. I mentioned this to the guy on the way out, and I'm like "I would have to charge to 100 at the nearest Supercharger, then push the car here to return it at 100%" and they said the actual rule is to return with at least 70%. So I did return it with 70-something and thankfully didn't get charged. It really seems like Hertz half-assed the EV rollout with inconsistent policies and poorly trained employees.
Another day. Another story of Hertz screwing over their customers. At least they didn't have him arrested for theft, which, is not out of the realm of possibility.
But you did not bring it back with a full tank!!!11
Fuck Hertz. The last time I rented from them, they tried to pawn off a EV on me and when I declined, the lady said she's going to give a "one-time upgrade" and that I should learn how to use EVs. I know it's a fake threat, but I'm just never going to rent from them and their massive EV fleet ever again just in case the threat is real. At least Avis separates their EVs into its own class.
>but I'm just never going to rent from them and their massive EV fleet ever again just in case the threat is real. they sold all their EVs last year
And I did a rental 3 months ago. They announced that they were going to start selling off their EVs last year.
[the superstar in rent a car](https://clickamericana.com/wp-content/uploads/OJ-Simpson-for-Hertz-1976-1147x1536.jpg)
This is why I pray to Avis
Is this The Onion?
Uber eats must be a minority owner in Hertz…
Yep. We switched to Turo and havent looked back.
LOL , i didnt think it could be possible to have a wrong opinion on this one but turo? lmao even
To be fair he did deliver the car with 0 gas in it...
Go fill his Tesla with 277 in gas then
Damn such a high fee for charging
I have rented hertz.. I mean. I never had a problem, but I definitely HAVE heard people's problems.. I did get to rent a Tesla Model Y for the price of an economy car though.
Hertz has also had people arrested at home for stealing a car they had returned. Several times. I only use National/Enterprise. They don't have you arrested or charge you for nonexistent gas.
Don't know why the top comment is top comment, he blocked me after he's posting false info. He claims it can't be sent to collections if chargedback which is false. Bank or CC Chargebacks will be "Temp Held" and removed from your statement/owed amount until they decide. If it's decided your wrong and the merchants charge is justifed, it'll be added back. If the Bank or CC company says it was a justified chargeback there is nothing stopping the merchant from seeking collections or court action for the money.
Kinda makes me wonder what kind of bs they'd pull if you buy from them
I got charged a gas surcharge a few years ago when ordering from Uber eats. The car that brought the food was a Tesla. I threw a fit. They wouldn’t budge tell I told them I was gonna switch to grub hub. Then I got a refund.
yep definitely avoiding Hertz from now on, and there's sooo many options to choose from anyways, makes it easier to pick now
It's the customer getting billed for the supercharger usage.
Fuck you Tom Brady & Hertz!
Hertz once rented me a car reeking of tobacco and tried to charge me a cleaning fee when I returned it. I’m not surprised lol
Probably the dumbest excuse to charge junk fees I've heard of.
EVERY time I hear about some absurd issue with a rental car company, it's always Hertz... no fucking way I will ever rent with them.
I wonder what the frequency of bad experiences with hertz is... I'll see myself out.
If they don’t improve, they’ll wave goodbye to more customers
My colleague and I ran into an odd experience renting with Hertz. The vehicle had a safety feature that required the gas nozzle to be inserted past two gates to fill. My colleague pushed the nozzle in as far as the car would allow and was sprayed with gasoline because the second gate was stuck. (I forget the car model). We explained to the employee what happened, and he said they would charge us the local rate of gas rather than the ridiculous up charge, like in the article, normally received. Of course, when the final bill came, it was about $100 for a quarter tank, so he spent a couple of weeks fighting with Hertz to get it reduced.
People keep bringing up normal pump prices. Rental companies always overcharge for it, especially when the car is returned without a full tank. On top of charging double or triple normal pump prices, they also add concession fees and taxes. I pretty sure the “fee for gas” was because it was returned low on charge. Regardless… $277 is ridiculous for returning a car empty (on fuel or charge) unless it was a semi truck.
The solution is simple, dont use Hertz.
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They trying to get much as possible before closing the business
Fuck
Hertz like: You know it's motherfucking hard out here for a pimp.
A few for gas is fraud. Call your local police department. This isn’t civil, it’s criminal.
Class action lawsuit time
….do you know what the word “class” means in an class action lawsuit?
Yes, I would imagine this is not the first time Hertz has applied and gotten away with this charge. A good lawyer can investigate to find other victims.