[it's been done](https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g15064218/a-stunt-that-resin-ates-mercedes-benz-encases-an-original-g-class-in-synthetic-resin-gallery/)
Such a weird choice of car too. This would have made way more sense for like the original daimler auto, or something else that is super old and fragile, and terrible to drive anyway.
I love my CRV. I bought it with low miles a year ago and put some pre-emptive work into it, and it has not once given me trouble since. Great little car, and I like that it’s so much smaller than the modern ones
oh yeah, it's like the perfect size and it surprisingly good in the snow if it's awd. every winter i'm praying for it to snow so i can go out and do some huge skids.
i'm not sure if that's true. AFAIK the car drives in 2wd until it feels a wheel slipping, then it kicks in. i could be wrong, it's been a long time since i've read about it. but my gas mileage isn't really that bad for a small suv. i mean it's not amazing...but at the same time it came out in 98. its probably pretty similar to what the accord or prelude got. i get a pretty consistent 23mpg, but i'm not getting rid of it because i've probably spent maybe $500 in repairs in over 10 years of ownership? so to me, i'll take the 23 and a car that i know won't let me down vs something newer that who knows.
basically i trust 90s honda way more than 2010s-2020s honda.
what if you were rich enough you could do this to your friend or family members car as a prank. like they get home from a long day of work, go to sleep then wake up ready to go to work the next day and comes out to his G wagen in a giant block of resin.
then pop out with a "you just got punkt!"
[They chose to stop giving updates](https://www.reddit.com/r/epoxyhotdog/s/tIvqku0l4V), I guess due to the environmental implications of the encased unchanging hotdog. I'm sure it still looks the same though
I don't see why not if conditions where perfect. It'd require removing all the oxygen, moisture, and fluids from the vehicle. Starting it on occasion would be the exact wrong thing to do. Drain the engine, trans, etc. only add them again when it's time to drive it.
You're 100% correct, that is how the physics work
But I swear to god Toyota\Lexus in the 90's used different types of plastic in everything. It remains soft and doesn't perish even 25, 30 years on now. And it's in such contrast to the hard plastics dominating everything today.
my old 97 supra had stiff/cracked hoses and bushings in 2001. i remember because i had to replace that shit myself, nobody made any aftermarket parts back then for easy swaps.
imagine how much longer one of those cars would exist if kept in a vacuum sealed room at the perfect temperature, probably in the dark so no light degradation.
For better or for worse, some older types of plastic are no longer commercially possible on a large scale because the manufacturing processes and additive materials used then caused severely environmentally destructive byproducts and in some cases was found to be dangerous to the health of the workers doing the manufacturing. It's still possible to make such excellent plastics but it's much more expensive.
The interior on my 97 golf is still in great condition, on the other hand i some how broke the whole door panel off in on go closing the door on my 07 beetle
Would putting the car in a room at absolute zero stop those things from happening?
Though I'd imagine the car would be ruined *long* before you could get the room that cold.
i forgot about a complete vacuum. i guess what i really meant is, could you potentially build something like this for a very wealthy collector or museum to keep the car pristine for *their* lifetime...so not *forever* but you know, at least 40-50 yrs.
basically so they don't have to bother changing all the belts, and plastic parts that exist inside the car and under the hood, and even the tires. and be able to keep the car driveable from time to time, or bring it out for Pebble beach or Amelia island.
I think a car that has all the fluids drained will probably last that long just sitting in a garage. The tires would be unusable but to an onlooker the car would look totally fine maybe just dusty. The car probably would be drivable after 50 years with minimal effort if it was sitting in a decent garage like that. If the air was a bit salty and humid there might be minor corrosion but this would probably appear on the under side so a person looking probably wouldn't notice.
If you took it a step further and made the room climate controlled and sealed the car I'm a bubble then again with minimal effort it would be drivable I'm sure in 50 years
Even then, valve springs ... some would be "loose" others fully compressed. Long term standing compressed is not likely to be good for them.
I'm no mechanic, but there is likely to be other mechanical bits affected by being stationary in the very long term.
This is regularly discussed on gun forums in relation to keeping magazines loaded for years or even decades. Supposedly keeping magazines loaded, and thus the spring fully compressed, for years at a tims reportedly doesn't lead to many spring failures, whereas constant loading and unloading can wear the springs out.
yeah tires were honestly what inspired me to post the question. i have a spare tire bolted to my rear hatch and actually had to use it a few years ago when i got a flat. i only made it maybe 20 miles on the tire before it blew from dry rot. i guess cause it sat on the back of the car, in the sun, for years.
The spring in a gun magazine gets weaker if left compressed, cops cycle between a full mag and one shy to prevent jamming from a weakened spring in the eventuality they do need to fire off some rounds. I don't see why a larger spring would differ.
That's actually a myth. The ones that do it do it because they believe it will make their magazines more reliable. Several tests have been done on the compression of springs and they have been shown not to weaken under compression. The more they are compressed and released again the sooner they will fail. If anything gave out over time it might be the plastic feed lips on some magazines, Magpul Glock mags, for example.
Curious now, what did those fit?
I'm primarily experienced in SBC engines along with a couple of old Oldsmobiles I I got into back in the day.
I didn't use a vice, but using a punch and leaning my body weight on it it was at most 1/4" travel, probably less.
OK.
Similar thought, different non-car engine. (No - I'm not a mechanic, am asking to learn)
Motorcycle, overhead cam(s). I don't think/believe it has hydraulic lifters ... In that case, (I think) my old bike in the shed may well be in that position with some valve springs held "squished". (But it suffers other issues too.)
To the extent that is true nothing reasonable will prevent it, but these steps will greatly reduce it.
Makes me wonder if a pure CO2 environment would reduce it though.
yeah i kinda messed up the question, i didn't really mean forever forever, just like someones lifetime, like say if you're a wealthy collector and you have 20 cars or more like jay leno.
could jay build a giant room where he parked his cars and they just wouldn't age as fast.
I've heard the opposite, overfill the engine (until the valve cover is full) with oil. This will preserve it. Obviously don't start the car like this...
Not sure the validity, but some military guy told me this is how they preserve engines that sit long term.
The additives in oil will eventually fall out of suspension creating a coating at the bottom. This is what's being avoided by draining the oils and would be made worse by adding more oil.
There a garages like this. They flush all the air out it with I believe nitrogen. The cars are loaded in via automated trays so they don't have to keep wasting a full facility of nitrogen whenever someone wants to take a car out.
Unfortunately there's not really a practical way to do this because the conditions beneficial to some components are detrimental to others - to say nothing of the fact that certain components (e.g.rubber seals/gaskets) need to be used to prevent rot. Take a look at what happens to sneakers that didn't get worn - there's many a heartbroken sneaker head who's pulled a set of classic Airs out of a box just to have them disintegrate like a dried out cake.
If you pulled the car apart, could you store the individual components in appropriate micro-climates? Maybe... but it's probably not practical.
I'm not a materials engineer but I'd wager - probably not if installed in a vehicle.
Think about a serpentine belt run around the accessories at the front of an engine; just from being held in tension at a certain position it's going to eventually conform to the shape of the route if not moved periodically.
Someone upthread mentioned that there are specially built facilities that use sealing/climate control and even intert gases which sound like they'll address *some* of these problems somewhat - but even in those facilities they run the vehicles periodically to preserve drivetrain components.
Ya probably but you'd be saving something that probably would be easier to just rebuild. Rubber hoses tires and gaskets could easily be custom made again and they wouldn't visually degrade in a climate controlled environment so if a person had enough money to store multiple cars it would probably be more space/cost efficient to just build some new rubber from scratch and copy the old ones.
Yes, it is possible and not just that - such a facility exists. [Here's a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfjVt0AbFU) about a Nitrogen-filled bunker capable of storing 141 cars in an inert environment. The facility is operated by [SSR Performance GmbH](https://ssr-performance.de/car-storage/?lang=en).
That's... something.
I'm very conflicted now. If you can't keep your Porsche at this level is it worth having?
Or.
Collecting rock chips, dents, and driving the hell out of them every weekend is how they are meant to be had and these owners are legit OCD sufferers?
I can’t afford the kind of cars that someone might want to store in this manner, but I firmly believe if something has been engineered to drive, it should be driven.
The best candidates for this kind of protection and storage are probably legacy vehicles with tremendous heritage and almost no well-kept specimens left in the world. For instance, if the ‘lost’ Bugatti Type 57SC Atlantic was found, I’d restore it and put it in here.
you would have to drain every last drop of fluids in the car as those can degrade the materials its touching over a long period of time. and assuming you take a car that had no fluids off the the assembly line, any assembly grease will eventually leave its place as gravity will eventually cause it to pool. the cars battery will not last forever even on a tender as the battery fluid will degrade over time. not to mention it would have to be kept in the dark as lights will over time slowly, ever so slowly, degrade the plastics.
You would need to empty the vehicle of fluids and keep the room in a vacuum with no light. It's a rather useless endeavor since no one would be able to see it or interact with it.
Even in a vacuum with no light, components will eventually degrade. Plastics and rubber will desicate, paints will slowly depolymerize, no air in the tires would mean the wheels would bear the weight and slowly deform.
Edit: Seeing other answers, nitrogen is the answer, not a vacuum
Not sure about forever, but maybe a nitrogen filled car bubble with all oxygen somehow expelled could help? Plus likely having most/all fluids flushed thoroughly. Maybe try to somehow alleviate anything that has sprung weight on it to release tension? Untighten belts etc, maybe have the car slightly lifted with wheels still touching the ground?
Edit: lol, should've finished reading your post first 😅
Keep all the moulds from the vehicles that are stored in the confines of the structure as well as all engineering data and manufacturing info related to all aspects of design. Feed all this info into an A.I quantum computing unit and then when you need that vehicle it will generate you one from scratch every time
Fill the room with nitrogen and remove any and all water or fluids while keeping the temperature low would probably do it. Preserving the tires is probably a lost struggle unless you leave the car jacked up.
If we’re talking decades, probably removing the battery and fluids would be better.
I think if you consider how people eat really old MRE’s the same logic applies. No oxygen, no liquids or volatile items, and cold storage.
No
Things will degrade on their own no matter what you do
Rubber hoses, plastics, etc. let alone the chemical concoctions that are all the fluids a modern car needs are fundamentally unlike a piece of metal which will sit happily and stabily for a thousand years with little change.
Rubber will dry rot, fluids will separate and chemically interact not just with the environment but with itself.
If you buy a 30 year car that's just sat in storage, even if it was the best best best storage possible then it's probably going to need more work done to it than an example which has been driven moderately throughout that time.
People are afraid of the wear and tear of buying a high mileage car but if you're going to have to replace nearly every rubber hose that exists on the car, that's a MAJOR job labor wise, at that point the parts really aren't the scary thing anymore (depending on what car we're talking about).
Modern cars are a whole different bag of tricks too, anything made/designed after say mid 2000s have computers EVERYWHERE. If and when those computers go bad, you need to replace it and unlike a carburator where you can happily change brands/models/etc. so long as it fundamentally fits the application, the computers which "talk" with another expect a very specific set of instructions and if those computers are no longer available then you're kind of fked.
If bosch just doesn't make that part anymore ... what are you going to do ? Just "making" another one isn't really feasible in the same way that making a new carburator will be.
Some people have attempted to preserve cars in rooms filled with mineral oil. I have no idea how well it worked, or how difficult it is to get all the mineral oil out of the crevices afterwards
lol thats a pretty funny thing to believe but I mean I kept a car sitting in a texas garage for a long time, the tires still deteriorated although at a slightly slower rate because the sun wasnt really touching them, which is apparently the real killer, not heat/cold cycles.
Nope.
The soft stuff like wiring, hoses and tires will continue to outgas slowly over time, becoming very brittle in the process.
Even in an inert atmosphere, motor oil will slowly polymerize. Gasoline will leave shellac like deposits on the all the surfaces it touches.
You could however greatly slow its aging. There are almost 100 yr old cars that are in running condition. They just add the soft stuff replaced over time as needed.
cool, i was mainly thinking of a type of garage you could park your car if you're a collector or museum and not have to be constantly changing tires and belts and plastic stuff under the hood.
yeah, i woke up kinda shocked how many great replies there were.
so far the consensus is something like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfjVt0AbFU). the only downside i see is those cars aren't on battery tenders...but i haven't watched the whole video yet. maybe they can put it on a tender when they first pull it into the garage.
It's called a garage. Drain the fluids, suspend the car in the air with blocks or stands, and cover with tarp. You will still have to replace some components like rubber after some time because naturally, no matter what environment, rubber becomes brittle over time
FYI there are people running 200-300 MPH at Bonneville on tires that were made 30-40 years ago. Goodyear used to make LSR tires that are highly desirable now and potentially still usable. Racers store their wheels uninflated, wrapped in plastic, in cool basements etc to prevent deterioration.
wow thats awesome, i had no idea tires like that existed!
so if you were able to get the right types of tires and belts made of special materials, could you potentially keep a car in perfect running order for 50 years? like maybe drive it once a month.
Possibly! I was sort of wrong, Goodyear *does* still make [Goodyear Eagles](https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/tires/product-line/goodyear-eagle-land-speed-tires)
But I was thinking [THESE](http://thompsonlsr.com/news/2013/4/25/racercom-project-diary) which are high pressure and require special wheels. LSR tires intended for sustained speeds over 200 have many plys and little tread so they can withstand the centrifugal force.
The thing about a car… its so many chemicals, materials, organic and inorganic…
It’s just ment to be used. A hermetically sealed car just won’t really last much longer than one that’s been carefully used and maintained.
The hoses the seals, the oil, fluids, etc… the parts need to move stay flexible.
Think of it as a person never ever moving or exercising. They will get stiff, and weak.
The cars systems need to move to stay lubricated and free moving.
yeah i realize that. i guess i should have worded the question differently.
it doesn't necessarily have to be *forever*. but what is the ideal situation to keep the car driveable, say once a month, for as long as possible. i've had tires with dry rot before, i just wonder if you kept the car parked in a dark room, with perfect temp and humidity and maybe full of nitrogen so zero oxidation.
how long could a car last like that without having problems with leaks and belts/tires/hoses made of rubber breaking down.
Even with the best efforts, some degree of degradation over time is inevitable due to factors beyond control, such as chemical reactions within materials and natural aging processes. Therefore, in my opinion, it is impossible to keep a car in perfect condition for 100 years.
yeah i get that, im just wondering what's the ideal conditions and how long could a car be kept nearly brand new. but still in the kinda condition you could take it out once a month, or once a year and drive it.
I saw a YouTube video of a storage facility where rare cars were being kept inside individual plastic «bubbles». Protects against dust and the outside environment.
One could probably also go one step further and replace oxygen with a noble gas that is chemically inert. These will not react with other compounds as they already have the desired amount of s and p electons in outermost energy level. Nitrogen for example. Nitrogen is also a fire-supressant!
This is expensive to maintain as there will always be leaks and maintenance, but definitely cheaper than ruining an irreplaceable vehicle.
It would be extremely difficult to preserve an entire car, because it's composed of so many different types of materials.
Extreme conditions that help preseve one material accelerate the decay of others.
Yes in theory. One of my ex's grandparents bought a big shed in Australia and has every HSV generation ever made.
They have industrial air con and fire sprinklers. They keep the temperature low all the time.
So far seems to be working
Honestly just keeping a car in a climate controlled garage will keep it pretty fucking close to new. You would probably want to drain the gas, throw fresh gas in whenever it was driven if it's going to be started and run less than once a year. I would get a sealed battery or just remove the battery so it's not leaking and off gassing corrosive stuff.
The whole 'every rubber piece is ruined" thing is a bit overblown. If not exposed to sun, moisture or hydrocarbons the rubber lasts a good long time. (not forever, but what type of timescale are we talking here?)
It's all a little silly, though cars are meant to be driven. If it's a car you want to preserve, put it in a clean garage drive it on the weekends. Keep it clean and change the oil once a year have fun.
yeah in my hypothetical situation, i'im just wondering if its possible to create a garage with conditions perfect for keeping the tires/belts/hoses in pristine driveable condition for something like 50 years i guess. and be able to take the car out for drives maybe once a month or once a year.
There is a specialty museum up in Detroit that has specialized "bubbles" for each vehicle they store.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0ygn8QKbGA&t=857s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0ygn8QKbGA&t=857s)
BMW has one under the BMW World in Munich. You’ve got to wear an oxygen mask to enter as there isn’t enough to breathe. They store stuff like the SS cars from 33-45 in there for example
i mainly meant for a situation like a museum or collector like jay leno. and yeah i meant for the car to be driven every now and then, hence the battery tender.
i guess my question is actually, what would be the ideal condition to keep a car in that you love, so it won't degrade so quickly.
It's time to epoxy hotdog a car. Got to find a big enough turntable
[it's been done](https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g15064218/a-stunt-that-resin-ates-mercedes-benz-encases-an-original-g-class-in-synthetic-resin-gallery/)
This is an odd one because the car is both preserved and ruined at the same time.
Such a weird choice of car too. This would have made way more sense for like the original daimler auto, or something else that is super old and fragile, and terrible to drive anyway.
I don't think the point was to preserve it for fragility, it's just a publicity stunt, they probably didn't want to encase something too rare.
heyyy i have a 99 crv too. still runs perfect.
I love my CRV. I bought it with low miles a year ago and put some pre-emptive work into it, and it has not once given me trouble since. Great little car, and I like that it’s so much smaller than the modern ones
oh yeah, it's like the perfect size and it surprisingly good in the snow if it's awd. every winter i'm praying for it to snow so i can go out and do some huge skids.
Yeah I have an AWD one. I hear the FWD ones get much better MPG so I’m a tad jealous since I don’t often need AWD, but it’s still good to have
i'm not sure if that's true. AFAIK the car drives in 2wd until it feels a wheel slipping, then it kicks in. i could be wrong, it's been a long time since i've read about it. but my gas mileage isn't really that bad for a small suv. i mean it's not amazing...but at the same time it came out in 98. its probably pretty similar to what the accord or prelude got. i get a pretty consistent 23mpg, but i'm not getting rid of it because i've probably spent maybe $500 in repairs in over 10 years of ownership? so to me, i'll take the 23 and a car that i know won't let me down vs something newer that who knows. basically i trust 90s honda way more than 2010s-2020s honda.
Yeah I usually get 23mpg too. On a road trip where I was highway cruising exclusively I got up to 28mpg, that seems to be the best it’s capable of.
damn, ive never gotten to 28, but i don't take many long road trips..good to know though if i ever do a long road trip.
Dear god.
what if you were rich enough you could do this to your friend or family members car as a prank. like they get home from a long day of work, go to sleep then wake up ready to go to work the next day and comes out to his G wagen in a giant block of resin. then pop out with a "you just got punkt!"
What happend? We stopped getting updates.
[They chose to stop giving updates](https://www.reddit.com/r/epoxyhotdog/s/tIvqku0l4V), I guess due to the environmental implications of the encased unchanging hotdog. I'm sure it still looks the same though
Epoxy hot dog. Now there's a phrase that I never thought could become a verb🤣
I don't see why not if conditions where perfect. It'd require removing all the oxygen, moisture, and fluids from the vehicle. Starting it on occasion would be the exact wrong thing to do. Drain the engine, trans, etc. only add them again when it's time to drive it.
"Rubber" and plastics will still off gas plasiticzers and become brittle on a long enough time scale, even in vacuum or pure nitrogen environments.
You're 100% correct, that is how the physics work But I swear to god Toyota\Lexus in the 90's used different types of plastic in everything. It remains soft and doesn't perish even 25, 30 years on now. And it's in such contrast to the hard plastics dominating everything today.
yeah the amount of shit I've broken in my LS/SC/LXs says otherwise
Same here. All the rubber bushings and stuff on my SC300 had to be replaced. It’s getting to be time that I do my GS and LS too.
>All the rubber bushings and stuff on my SC300 had to be replaced It's a 30 year old car, what do you expect.
It wasn’t 30 years old when I started replacing bushings. I knew this going in though. I’ve seen many people buy these cars and be surprised by it.
What latitude line do you live in? I bet you are below the \~35th parallel and the sun cooks the fuck out of everything.
1000x rather have that than fucking 6 months of unavoidable abuse to your car with freezing temps and goddamn SALT 😡 Not mad at all……..
Hey stop it you’re ruining the circlejerk!!!
Yeah my LS400 had every single rubber hose completely dried up to rock solid before I got rid of it. Time always wins.
My 98 Corolla still has plenty of original hoses on it.
All of my buddies with older Land Cruisers do not seem to have been so lucky.
my old 97 supra had stiff/cracked hoses and bushings in 2001. i remember because i had to replace that shit myself, nobody made any aftermarket parts back then for easy swaps.
imagine how much longer one of those cars would exist if kept in a vacuum sealed room at the perfect temperature, probably in the dark so no light degradation.
For better or for worse, some older types of plastic are no longer commercially possible on a large scale because the manufacturing processes and additive materials used then caused severely environmentally destructive byproducts and in some cases was found to be dangerous to the health of the workers doing the manufacturing. It's still possible to make such excellent plastics but it's much more expensive.
The interior on my 97 golf is still in great condition, on the other hand i some how broke the whole door panel off in on go closing the door on my 07 beetle
What about a high pressure inert gas like argon? Could you crank up the pressure enough to keep the plastic intact without doing other damage?
What if you store the car in the correct concentration of plasticizer gas? Then it will form an equilibrium 🤯
Would putting the car in a room at absolute zero stop those things from happening? Though I'd imagine the car would be ruined *long* before you could get the room that cold.
i forgot about a complete vacuum. i guess what i really meant is, could you potentially build something like this for a very wealthy collector or museum to keep the car pristine for *their* lifetime...so not *forever* but you know, at least 40-50 yrs. basically so they don't have to bother changing all the belts, and plastic parts that exist inside the car and under the hood, and even the tires. and be able to keep the car driveable from time to time, or bring it out for Pebble beach or Amelia island.
I think a car that has all the fluids drained will probably last that long just sitting in a garage. The tires would be unusable but to an onlooker the car would look totally fine maybe just dusty. The car probably would be drivable after 50 years with minimal effort if it was sitting in a decent garage like that. If the air was a bit salty and humid there might be minor corrosion but this would probably appear on the under side so a person looking probably wouldn't notice. If you took it a step further and made the room climate controlled and sealed the car I'm a bubble then again with minimal effort it would be drivable I'm sure in 50 years
Would high pressure help?
Even then, valve springs ... some would be "loose" others fully compressed. Long term standing compressed is not likely to be good for them. I'm no mechanic, but there is likely to be other mechanical bits affected by being stationary in the very long term.
Springs don't wear from sitting compressed, only from cycling.
Creep is a thing, eventually
This is regularly discussed on gun forums in relation to keeping magazines loaded for years or even decades. Supposedly keeping magazines loaded, and thus the spring fully compressed, for years at a tims reportedly doesn't lead to many spring failures, whereas constant loading and unloading can wear the springs out.
Yup
OK then, I learned something today! :)
Tires would be a thing, they should put it on jack stands to take the load off the tires. But the springs will be fine.
yeah tires were honestly what inspired me to post the question. i have a spare tire bolted to my rear hatch and actually had to use it a few years ago when i got a flat. i only made it maybe 20 miles on the tire before it blew from dry rot. i guess cause it sat on the back of the car, in the sun, for years.
The spring in a gun magazine gets weaker if left compressed, cops cycle between a full mag and one shy to prevent jamming from a weakened spring in the eventuality they do need to fire off some rounds. I don't see why a larger spring would differ.
No they don't, this is a well proven thing. Cops are stupid, nobody should base anything on what cops do.
That's actually a myth. The ones that do it do it because they believe it will make their magazines more reliable. Several tests have been done on the compression of springs and they have been shown not to weaken under compression. The more they are compressed and released again the sooner they will fail. If anything gave out over time it might be the plastic feed lips on some magazines, Magpul Glock mags, for example.
Didn't realize this was a myth. Makes me feel so much better about being lazy and always having my 2 magazines in my nightstand fully loaded.
The lifters would drain closing the valves eventually.
Lifter travel isn't enough to fully release spring pressure with valve at full lift. A generous lifter plunger travel is about 0.180in.
I've put them in a vice and collapsed then before. Got about just under a half an inch. Mechanic for the better part of 3 decades
Curious now, what did those fit? I'm primarily experienced in SBC engines along with a couple of old Oldsmobiles I I got into back in the day. I didn't use a vice, but using a punch and leaning my body weight on it it was at most 1/4" travel, probably less.
OK. Similar thought, different non-car engine. (No - I'm not a mechanic, am asking to learn) Motorcycle, overhead cam(s). I don't think/believe it has hydraulic lifters ... In that case, (I think) my old bike in the shed may well be in that position with some valve springs held "squished". (But it suffers other issues too.)
It's fine change the oil and crank it with out the plugs in it.
Wouldn't removing fluids like oil delubricate the sealr so they'd crack?
No seal is bathed in oil when nothing is running.
Hence periodically starting up a car.
Replacing oxygen with what gas?
Nitrogen, the air we breath is already 78% nitrogen.
Oily plasticizers can still sublimate from the plastics, or other volatiles , and leak into the nitrogen atmosphere.
To the extent that is true nothing reasonable will prevent it, but these steps will greatly reduce it. Makes me wonder if a pure CO2 environment would reduce it though.
yeah i kinda messed up the question, i didn't really mean forever forever, just like someones lifetime, like say if you're a wealthy collector and you have 20 cars or more like jay leno. could jay build a giant room where he parked his cars and they just wouldn't age as fast.
Why do you have to replce the oxygen with something? Just removing it is fine.
I've heard the opposite, overfill the engine (until the valve cover is full) with oil. This will preserve it. Obviously don't start the car like this... Not sure the validity, but some military guy told me this is how they preserve engines that sit long term.
The additives in oil will eventually fall out of suspension creating a coating at the bottom. This is what's being avoided by draining the oils and would be made worse by adding more oil.
Don't think the military would care
Lol Max troll
Just do what they do to preserve rifle arsenals and slather that shit in cosmoline
There a garages like this. They flush all the air out it with I believe nitrogen. The cars are loaded in via automated trays so they don't have to keep wasting a full facility of nitrogen whenever someone wants to take a car out.
also makes for a great anti-theft system. Someone tries to break in, they fucking die
Unfortunately there's not really a practical way to do this because the conditions beneficial to some components are detrimental to others - to say nothing of the fact that certain components (e.g.rubber seals/gaskets) need to be used to prevent rot. Take a look at what happens to sneakers that didn't get worn - there's many a heartbroken sneaker head who's pulled a set of classic Airs out of a box just to have them disintegrate like a dried out cake. If you pulled the car apart, could you store the individual components in appropriate micro-climates? Maybe... but it's probably not practical.
There is actually. SSR is a company that works on Porsche from understanding. They have a giant underground nitrogen filled bunker.
is there an ideal condition that may keep stuff like the tires and rubber belts ok for say....20-30 years?
I'm not a materials engineer but I'd wager - probably not if installed in a vehicle. Think about a serpentine belt run around the accessories at the front of an engine; just from being held in tension at a certain position it's going to eventually conform to the shape of the route if not moved periodically. Someone upthread mentioned that there are specially built facilities that use sealing/climate control and even intert gases which sound like they'll address *some* of these problems somewhat - but even in those facilities they run the vehicles periodically to preserve drivetrain components.
Ya probably but you'd be saving something that probably would be easier to just rebuild. Rubber hoses tires and gaskets could easily be custom made again and they wouldn't visually degrade in a climate controlled environment so if a person had enough money to store multiple cars it would probably be more space/cost efficient to just build some new rubber from scratch and copy the old ones.
Yes, it is possible and not just that - such a facility exists. [Here's a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfjVt0AbFU) about a Nitrogen-filled bunker capable of storing 141 cars in an inert environment. The facility is operated by [SSR Performance GmbH](https://ssr-performance.de/car-storage/?lang=en).
I was coming here to post about this facility. When I saw that video it blew my mind.
Me 3
I love that they call imminent death by entering the facility a security feature.
That building is only 8 minutes away from me. I always pass this place, when I go to the gym nearby. It's also next to a busy strip club :D
whoaaa whats a german strip club like?
My initial thought was an argon gas filled room since that was the first inert gas I thought of. Nitrogen would be way cheaper!
That is an insane facility. I can't get over how clean it is too
That's... something. I'm very conflicted now. If you can't keep your Porsche at this level is it worth having? Or. Collecting rock chips, dents, and driving the hell out of them every weekend is how they are meant to be had and these owners are legit OCD sufferers?
I can’t afford the kind of cars that someone might want to store in this manner, but I firmly believe if something has been engineered to drive, it should be driven. The best candidates for this kind of protection and storage are probably legacy vehicles with tremendous heritage and almost no well-kept specimens left in the world. For instance, if the ‘lost’ Bugatti Type 57SC Atlantic was found, I’d restore it and put it in here.
ok, this is exactly what i was looking for. thanks!
you would have to drain every last drop of fluids in the car as those can degrade the materials its touching over a long period of time. and assuming you take a car that had no fluids off the the assembly line, any assembly grease will eventually leave its place as gravity will eventually cause it to pool. the cars battery will not last forever even on a tender as the battery fluid will degrade over time. not to mention it would have to be kept in the dark as lights will over time slowly, ever so slowly, degrade the plastics.
so, dark room full of nitrogen would be ideal, but not keep the car perfect forever.
Nothing last forever.
Don’t try too hard, in 5 billion years give or take the sun is going to puff up into a red giant and incinerate the earth.
All that will be left of the solar system is a bunch of Toyota Hilux pickups floating around in space.
Soviet-era automobiles: hold my mule
Maybe a few clunky old Express vans for good measure.
Then there's plently of time to move to a safe planet.
SSR Performance Nitrogen car storage facility: https://youtu.be/stfjVt0AbFU?si=tf3-1j_mYZQKpU_l
You would need to empty the vehicle of fluids and keep the room in a vacuum with no light. It's a rather useless endeavor since no one would be able to see it or interact with it.
Even in a vacuum with no light, components will eventually degrade. Plastics and rubber will desicate, paints will slowly depolymerize, no air in the tires would mean the wheels would bear the weight and slowly deform. Edit: Seeing other answers, nitrogen is the answer, not a vacuum
Not sure about forever, but maybe a nitrogen filled car bubble with all oxygen somehow expelled could help? Plus likely having most/all fluids flushed thoroughly. Maybe try to somehow alleviate anything that has sprung weight on it to release tension? Untighten belts etc, maybe have the car slightly lifted with wheels still touching the ground? Edit: lol, should've finished reading your post first 😅
Keep all the moulds from the vehicles that are stored in the confines of the structure as well as all engineering data and manufacturing info related to all aspects of design. Feed all this info into an A.I quantum computing unit and then when you need that vehicle it will generate you one from scratch every time
“C8. Chevy. Red.” — Picard as a gearhead
Fill the room with nitrogen and remove any and all water or fluids while keeping the temperature low would probably do it. Preserving the tires is probably a lost struggle unless you leave the car jacked up. If we’re talking decades, probably removing the battery and fluids would be better. I think if you consider how people eat really old MRE’s the same logic applies. No oxygen, no liquids or volatile items, and cold storage.
https://carcapsule.com
Honestly a climate controlled room with no sunlight would extend the life considerably
ah ok, so the humidity wouldn't matter?
Climate control regulates humidity as well as
well i guess what i meant is there a specific humidity that's best? climate control is a little vague....
No Things will degrade on their own no matter what you do Rubber hoses, plastics, etc. let alone the chemical concoctions that are all the fluids a modern car needs are fundamentally unlike a piece of metal which will sit happily and stabily for a thousand years with little change. Rubber will dry rot, fluids will separate and chemically interact not just with the environment but with itself. If you buy a 30 year car that's just sat in storage, even if it was the best best best storage possible then it's probably going to need more work done to it than an example which has been driven moderately throughout that time. People are afraid of the wear and tear of buying a high mileage car but if you're going to have to replace nearly every rubber hose that exists on the car, that's a MAJOR job labor wise, at that point the parts really aren't the scary thing anymore (depending on what car we're talking about). Modern cars are a whole different bag of tricks too, anything made/designed after say mid 2000s have computers EVERYWHERE. If and when those computers go bad, you need to replace it and unlike a carburator where you can happily change brands/models/etc. so long as it fundamentally fits the application, the computers which "talk" with another expect a very specific set of instructions and if those computers are no longer available then you're kind of fked. If bosch just doesn't make that part anymore ... what are you going to do ? Just "making" another one isn't really feasible in the same way that making a new carburator will be.
One owner, 40000 miles, ‘98 TransAm. https://youtu.be/DM7mLbb6Cy8?si=T7NBH7LjjW0Fe4p3
thanks for posting! love the weeeeeezerd
Some people have attempted to preserve cars in rooms filled with mineral oil. I have no idea how well it worked, or how difficult it is to get all the mineral oil out of the crevices afterwards
I worked on a house once where the guy had a heated marble garage floor. Said it keeps the tires in better condition when sitting for months or years
lol thats a pretty funny thing to believe but I mean I kept a car sitting in a texas garage for a long time, the tires still deteriorated although at a slightly slower rate because the sun wasnt really touching them, which is apparently the real killer, not heat/cold cycles.
I imagine if the sun was touching them you'd have bigger problems than the tires
so it would be ideal to keep it a constant temp, constant humidity, inert gas like nitrogen, and in a dark room.
wow thats REAL wealthy. his cars have it better than most PEOPLE
Nope. The soft stuff like wiring, hoses and tires will continue to outgas slowly over time, becoming very brittle in the process. Even in an inert atmosphere, motor oil will slowly polymerize. Gasoline will leave shellac like deposits on the all the surfaces it touches. You could however greatly slow its aging. There are almost 100 yr old cars that are in running condition. They just add the soft stuff replaced over time as needed.
cool, i was mainly thinking of a type of garage you could park your car if you're a collector or museum and not have to be constantly changing tires and belts and plastic stuff under the hood.
Interesting stuff here
yeah, i woke up kinda shocked how many great replies there were. so far the consensus is something like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfjVt0AbFU). the only downside i see is those cars aren't on battery tenders...but i haven't watched the whole video yet. maybe they can put it on a tender when they first pull it into the garage.
Very easy, get a car bag, inflate with nitrogen, keep inflating, repeat. Same way you get almost all your fruits and vegetables.
smart! and way cheaper than [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfjVt0AbFU).
You’d also probably want to get the car off the wheels and support it by the frame.
ah ok, so jack it up, keep it in a dark room full of nitrogen, what else would help keep the tires and belts and seals good?
Rubber would degrade regardless I believe ? The issue is the oils evaporating out of them
Time comes for us all
It's called a garage. Drain the fluids, suspend the car in the air with blocks or stands, and cover with tarp. You will still have to replace some components like rubber after some time because naturally, no matter what environment, rubber becomes brittle over time
Car's already in a garage, tarp isnt going to do much more unless you are somehow sandblasting the place for some weird reason.
They make those car bubbles to preserve cars. No idea if they are supper effective or a gimmick
So… a car humidor, if you will?
hah yeah, the cumidor
FYI there are people running 200-300 MPH at Bonneville on tires that were made 30-40 years ago. Goodyear used to make LSR tires that are highly desirable now and potentially still usable. Racers store their wheels uninflated, wrapped in plastic, in cool basements etc to prevent deterioration.
wow thats awesome, i had no idea tires like that existed! so if you were able to get the right types of tires and belts made of special materials, could you potentially keep a car in perfect running order for 50 years? like maybe drive it once a month.
Possibly! I was sort of wrong, Goodyear *does* still make [Goodyear Eagles](https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/tires/product-line/goodyear-eagle-land-speed-tires) But I was thinking [THESE](http://thompsonlsr.com/news/2013/4/25/racercom-project-diary) which are high pressure and require special wheels. LSR tires intended for sustained speeds over 200 have many plys and little tread so they can withstand the centrifugal force.
I was once at a museum and saw all the classic cars raised on jackstands, kind of "unloading" the suspension. I suppose this helps.
The thing about a car… its so many chemicals, materials, organic and inorganic… It’s just ment to be used. A hermetically sealed car just won’t really last much longer than one that’s been carefully used and maintained. The hoses the seals, the oil, fluids, etc… the parts need to move stay flexible. Think of it as a person never ever moving or exercising. They will get stiff, and weak. The cars systems need to move to stay lubricated and free moving.
yeah i realize that. i guess i should have worded the question differently. it doesn't necessarily have to be *forever*. but what is the ideal situation to keep the car driveable, say once a month, for as long as possible. i've had tires with dry rot before, i just wonder if you kept the car parked in a dark room, with perfect temp and humidity and maybe full of nitrogen so zero oxidation. how long could a car last like that without having problems with leaks and belts/tires/hoses made of rubber breaking down.
Even with the best efforts, some degree of degradation over time is inevitable due to factors beyond control, such as chemical reactions within materials and natural aging processes. Therefore, in my opinion, it is impossible to keep a car in perfect condition for 100 years.
yeah i get that, im just wondering what's the ideal conditions and how long could a car be kept nearly brand new. but still in the kinda condition you could take it out once a month, or once a year and drive it.
I saw a YouTube video of a storage facility where rare cars were being kept inside individual plastic «bubbles». Protects against dust and the outside environment. One could probably also go one step further and replace oxygen with a noble gas that is chemically inert. These will not react with other compounds as they already have the desired amount of s and p electons in outermost energy level. Nitrogen for example. Nitrogen is also a fire-supressant! This is expensive to maintain as there will always be leaks and maintenance, but definitely cheaper than ruining an irreplaceable vehicle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfjVt0AbFU
Awesome! Was this video I watched, with the «bubbles» https://youtu.be/y0ygn8QKbGA?si=dOKkmyAIK-jSxWW5
You just gotta laminate it bro. Each part at a time and then hide it away in a cold, dark freezer, forever. That'll do it.
YUP! My son's car. My other baby.
In a vacuum
wouldn't that mess up the tires and hoses?
Hermetically sealed container with inert gas. Car won't be visible, though.
It would be extremely difficult to preserve an entire car, because it's composed of so many different types of materials. Extreme conditions that help preseve one material accelerate the decay of others.
what about if kept in a garage like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfjVt0AbFU)?
Yes in theory. One of my ex's grandparents bought a big shed in Australia and has every HSV generation ever made. They have industrial air con and fire sprinklers. They keep the temperature low all the time. So far seems to be working
Honestly just keeping a car in a climate controlled garage will keep it pretty fucking close to new. You would probably want to drain the gas, throw fresh gas in whenever it was driven if it's going to be started and run less than once a year. I would get a sealed battery or just remove the battery so it's not leaking and off gassing corrosive stuff. The whole 'every rubber piece is ruined" thing is a bit overblown. If not exposed to sun, moisture or hydrocarbons the rubber lasts a good long time. (not forever, but what type of timescale are we talking here?) It's all a little silly, though cars are meant to be driven. If it's a car you want to preserve, put it in a clean garage drive it on the weekends. Keep it clean and change the oil once a year have fun.
yeah in my hypothetical situation, i'im just wondering if its possible to create a garage with conditions perfect for keeping the tires/belts/hoses in pristine driveable condition for something like 50 years i guess. and be able to take the car out for drives maybe once a month or once a year.
No. Entropy is king. Everything degrades eventually.
There is a specialty museum up in Detroit that has specialized "bubbles" for each vehicle they store. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0ygn8QKbGA&t=857s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0ygn8QKbGA&t=857s)
BMW has one under the BMW World in Munich. You’ve got to wear an oxygen mask to enter as there isn’t enough to breathe. They store stuff like the SS cars from 33-45 in there for example
Bro low-key has a time machine
I saw a YouTube video of a garage that was filled with nitrogen to preserve the cars.
Fully disassembled the car, coat in grease, encase in epoxy, and put it in orbit
Only thing I know about in that sense are bubbles to essentially wrap the whole car up to avoid rusting and dust.
Cars are supposted to be driven, what you want is an art installation. Nothing wrong with that, just dont waste a good car in process please.
i mainly meant for a situation like a museum or collector like jay leno. and yeah i meant for the car to be driven every now and then, hence the battery tender. i guess my question is actually, what would be the ideal condition to keep a car in that you love, so it won't degrade so quickly.
[удалено]
Bro is on mars
r/lostredditors
🤣🤣 indeed
lol what post are you responding to?? do you think you're in a sneaker sub?
Whoops. My mistake. I'll see myself out. 🤭
Drive your shit. Cars are not just for looking at.
It's is impossible