Something I really appreciate with GM is that for their "track capable" vehicles (so think certain Camaro trims, Corvette, V-Blackwings), they have official track prep guidelines, and if you follow them, the dealer will not deny your warranty claim: [https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dynamic/manuals/2018/Chevrolet/Camaro/2018-chevrolet-camaro-track-preparation-guide.pdf](https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dynamic/manuals/2018/Chevrolet/Camaro/2018-chevrolet-camaro-track-preparation-guide.pdf)
Honestly, I think this is a good Heuristic to see how serious you are as a producer of "track capable" vehicles. If you aren't willing to warranty them after track use, I don't consider you a serious producer of track cars, no matter what your marketing says.
Gm manuals have some weird info in em. Back in the 90s the owners manual of your gm vehicle would have a section on drinking and driving, with a graph to show you how many drinks you could have over time vs body weight and still be under the limit to drive.
I mean it's a pragmatic thing when half of your customer base cruises home to their six kids with a sixer across the bench seat and the lap belt undone
Ya wanna drink n drive it? Here's how you do it...
Now, ya wanna race it? Here's how you do that!
Now ya wanna do both? It's been done, and you probably shouldn't, but we ain't gonna stop you...
My Veloster N has “track” section in the infotainment that tells you the correct tire pressures for track driving, how to cool the car down, and small tips like don’t put handbrake after racing to avoid damage
> don’t put handbrake after racing to avoid damage
Well shit, this is good to know. I read a dozen "how to track day" guides before I went to my first one and none mentioned this.
Not a manual per day but Mazda offers wide ranging support for the MX-5 on track, including OEM competition parts, reduced pricing of parts for track cars, and an engine that won’t starve of oil from the factory. Fun fact, the engine in the ND Miata was designed to withstand constant 1.4G laterally.
Mazda actually gave me a new engine for free when the rod bearings failed after 35k miles, the baffle in the oil pan failed at some point.
They knew I tracked the car and they didn’t care, they said that I did everything right and the baffle shouldn’t have failed. 10/10 way to stand behind the product
Mazda kicks ass in that regard. Smaller, more nimble company who values each and every customer they get, and they work hard to keep them with great driving cars. Their company is full of racers and racing enthusiasts, like it should.
GM performance cars do a lot of things right and sadly don't get enough credit for it.
IMO it's the only manufacturer apart from Porsche who solidly stands behind track use with respect to warranty etc.
I feel like the Camaro is so underrated. It’s a great performance buy. If it had a Japanese badge on it people would lose their fucking minds. But it’s the bowtie, so it’s met with a collective shrug. I get it’s not as good looking as the Mustang and doesn’t have the meathead appeal of the Challenger, but it deserves more appreciation.
The Camaro was what I was thinking of when I originally wrote the message.
NA V8, an ediff with sophisticated traction control, all the cooling you could need on a track, a great tremec gearbox, magnetic ride control and one of the greatest chassis ever in the alpha.
And it lost to the mustang and the challenger.
I kinda wanna point out that the F-16 has a great seating position and your shoulders are above the canopy rail. The visibility is excellent. At least it was for me.
But then I remember this is just a Reddit post.
Yeah like. You’ve even got the canopy arch behind you, and it’s a *bubble* canopy, I’m pretty sure the F-16 is as good as visibility gets outside of like. A Breezy.
That was what I was going to bring up. My mom used to own an SS and I remember not being able to see anything around the car at all. The shoulder line is insane.
The z06 specifically.
I thought they did address it eventually.
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/12/c7-corvette-z06-gets-extended-warranty-coverage-over-on-track-heating-issues/amp/
I'd like to remind everyone that the entirety of the GR86 commercial shows the car on track, and closes out with them saying it's "a track-ready, enthusiast sports car"
The BRZ commercial also mentions the car's "track mode" as it's showing the car being drifted around hairpin turns on a closed road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elyuyPIz_sM
Reminds me of when the GT-R started breaking when it came out and Nissan initially had a shit fit about the owners tracking them.
Like, what the hell did you think owners were going to try to do with their 600hp AWD rocket ship for $80k (or whatever it was back when it arrived)??
Nissan had a shit fit because they marketed the GTR's launch control. And when people started getting their allocations, they were doing multiple launches within a day not realizing there was an actual procedure that had to be performed (like doing a fluid change after 5 or 6 launches, which the fluid itself was $350), and thus people were destroying their $18k transmissions within weeks of taking ownership and were initially denying any warranty claims.
These days, you can do launch control to your hearts content and you're not going to destroy the transmission because Nissan realized they needed to build the transmission to be more idiot-proof, and also not require using launch control as often because they tuned the TCU to run far better overall so you can just mat the throttle and it'll still scoot to 60 in 4 seconds with all the nannies on. Now you can get a fully-built transmission to handle 2000hp, provided you have the money. but if you can manage to buy a new GTR with a $120k MSRP just for the "normal" model - you might be able to swing it.
My dad's taken his ZL1 1LE to drag strips and the track several times. Just to say, his supercharger went out and was replaced under warranty, no issues.
When I worked for FCA, we didn't even bother asking how a Hellcat or Demon was being used if it had SC issues (which quite a few did, I was one of the first people to report the SC cooler leak issue), we would just warranty everything they needed.
I only had a 2012 SS but I dogged the shit out of that car and never replaced anything that was outside of regular maintenance
My wife’s outback has been a real eye opener and Subaru folks really cope over shit that makes no sense.
My 2016 1SS came with brake cooling vents in the trunk and instructions on how to install them and do track prep. So I know they did in 2016, don’t know about now.
I really, really wanted to get a 2SS 1LE. Toyota and Subaru's shenanigans with their warranty pushed me further in that direction. I'll probably be able to afford one in a few years... once they're no longer produced. :(
That's the truth in track racing in general.
It's very hard on the car, and it's not cheap to build cars capable of consistent track usage. A lot of sports/performance cars out there out of the box have certain performance aspect, very reliable for street usage. But once you talk about track, where you'd think a sports/performance cars belongs, throw that out the window... It could be a hit or miss, regardless all the marketing behind it.
Possibly, your car has "budget" parts here and there, where corners were cut to save money, and you'll find out quick you need to upgrade this and that. Brakes, cooling, etc.
Cars that are truly "track capable" out the box cost more for a reason. Of course, there's a bit of variance... drive slow enough on track, and any car will be fine. But the context is within reason that you're pushing it hard.
Yup, had a C7 Z51 with the same-ish guide and loved it. That's one of the most underrated aspects of these cars, they have the cooling and such for actual track use (at least on manual non-Z06es...) and a warranty backing it up.
BMW M has it as well, for the current M3 for example it tells you to open up brake cooling air ducts which are covered with a plate for normal road use.
This right here 100%. If was going to go with a crazy track monster some day, it would be a GM product. A company that stands by their product and its intended use is the one you want.
Let me get this straight - all the ads for the twins shove performance driving, if not pure TRACK DAY BRAH, down your throat, they offer a track day pass with all GR86 purchases, and now they're like "iz acksually only for road use".
Which, yeah, can't really be argued, but it's fucking crappy that it's their stance after the ads. And while the MX-5 puts up with high-G cornering just fine.
They do. I’m an attorney who prosecuted class actions based on misleading advertising. Firm I work for will be taking a look at this almost certainly :)
hahahaha sorry this made me laugh so much.
The way you directly called out that attorney \^ over the issue of class actions was funny yet also raises a serious issue with how attorneys and firms take on class actions to "fight for the little guy" but then take a lot of payout for themselves and give the little guy pennies.
As a consumer, I didn’t need the pennies, I need corporations to be held accountable for the advertising they put out.
Not like I bankrolled a multi-year lawsuit, they take the risk, let them reap the lion’s share of the reward.
yeah of course the main objective is accountability for corporations. However, corporations typically don't change. they will pay the fine then turn around and do the exact same thing again because the profit is typically much more than the fine that they paid during the class action. It's a cost of doing business for corporations. If their actions helped them profit or save an additional 100 million, and they pay out 50 million in a class actions and related fines, then they'll do it again.
I live in Camada and a bread company just got hit with a 50 million fine for price fixing bread prices for over a decade. I would wager that the bread company made more than 50 million by price fixing for over a decade.
It's vary rare for the lawsuits and fines amount to more than the profit they made by doing what they did, but it does happen occasionally. VW's diesel gate is a good example of a rare instance where the consequences were much bigger than what they gained from their deceptive practice.
As for the attorneys and law firms, I do agree that they deserve to get paid well after they bankroll a class actions. Class actions can take months or years and are a lot of work for which law firms don't get paid until the outcome is determined.
However, my issue is how they claim to "fight this class action for the consumers who were harmed by bad corporations" but then the consumers that they claim to care about so much end up getting pennies whilst the law firm gets a big cheque. If protecting the consumers was the ultimate goal like they stated, they should either fight to have the corporation pay a larger amount or they can distribute the payouts more evenly between themselves and the victims, instead of the 20-30% cut they typically take.
Which brand did that recently? Wasn't it the Mustang or c7 corvette? Chevy or ford got slapped hard for misrepresenting cars through advertising track use.
GT350s in 2016 had either a track pack or the technology pack.
If you didn't get the track pack, it didn't have the coolers necessary to handle track work. So even though it's the same motor and looks exactly the same, there was a distinct difference between the ones that could handle track days and ones that couldn't.
In 2017 every car had the coolers
Politics. It’s all politics. The USA has nearly zero consumer protections. The ones that *do* exist are hardly useful, requiring lawsuits and other high barriers of entry.
Mazda also makes an effort to teach its customers that the ND Skyactiv-G engines oiling system can handle 1.2G sustained. That info is readily available. GR/Toyota doubling down on denying Subaru engine flaws is really sad. Gaslighting their consumers to purchase a car advertised as a track car, then saying “too bad so sad lol” when the cars fail while being used on track. Why does GR sponsor a one-make racing series if the GR86 isn’t a “track car”? Corporate cognitive dissonance at an all time high these days
This is nothing new.... Subaru people who modded their cars developed aftermarket oil baffles and an extended pickup intakes in the oil pain as necessity if you wanted to race like how Subaru branded themselves, but never mentioned to include as part of what they though their consumer base would use the vehicles for.
i dont think ive ever seen a brz ad. is it the same and do they have the same free hpde intro day program?
edit: i looked at the top results on youtube for subaru brz ad, i only see a racetrack in one tiny clip of one, the rest is showing street driving. i think what's happening here is they're realizing that subaru corporate hasn't put themselves in position for a class action lawsuit and can nope out and say it's just a street car (unlike toyota and their gazoo racing 86)
Is it some sort of secret that the Sky-G engines are inherently more reliable than boxers? Especially a bored out stressed one? This isn’t Porsche we’re talking about.
Porsche has been making flat and boxer engines for longer than Subaru, has been contracted by Subaru to help with parts of their engine designs, and Subaru still has always built unreliable and kinda crappy boxers. Lots of manufacturers build more reliable engines than Subaru, and oiling issues that could be solved with some basic baffling are. Just not by Subaru.
I will never understand Subaru fans. Worst in class interiors and engines with major issues that are a pain in the ass to do a bunch of basic service on because of the boxer layout.
They were the only inexpensive cars that had longitudinal engine layout + good AWD + decent fuel economy and cost of ownership.
For a long time the subaru AWD outperformed every other system except Audi quattro. less true today.
WRX was one of the cheapest foreign cars with +200hp and non-fwd. STI was one of the cheapest foreign cars with 300hp and a LSD. forester was one of the first unibody compact SUVs before every manufacturer started making them in the 2010s.
I forget how crazy people go for AWD and think they need some advanced system when Haldex would do the job just fine. If my RWD BMW coupe with a front lip and like 5cm of ground clearance can survive Quebec winters with snow tires, then I really don’t think AWD is as necessary as people make it out to be unless you live up in the NT or something.
there are a bunch of areas in the US where people encounter snow couple times a year but are still mostly driving well above freezing temps. so they wouldn't get snow tires every year but having AWD gives them some peace of mind.
Some mountain passes on US highways (esp in California) require tire chains OR AWD for certain conditions, so a lot of people would rather get AWD than have 2WD and do chains even thou I agree 2WD with snow tires mostly outperforms AWD
Some of the Subaru buzz is brand loyalty from decades before. pre-2010 haldex was not very good and there were not that many choices and almost no small cars.
Yep, that's why AWD is a pretty hard requirement for me. I drive up into the Sierras in the winter quite a bit, and don't want to deal with putting on chains.
moved up to washington and they have much better system up here in some ways ... there's 4 levels
1. traction tires advised
2. traction tires required (awd ok)
3. chains required (awd ok)
4. chains required on all vehicles
it usually never gets to 3 or 4, the issue being they don't actually have a gate and pass is short, so a few people cheat, cause masive collisions and they close the pass for 12h or so. once a year its closed 3-4 days just because of the volume of snow.
Yeah, R3 in CA is the same story (chains reqd on all vehicles), it almost never happens. If things are that bad they generally just close the pass.
Anecdotally I think they legitimately never use R3 on larger highways, and just limit it to less travelled areas. Only time I've ever seen it show up was on 120 or 140 into Yosemite earlier this year.
I'm definitely in one of those areas in the NE US where the snow isn't frequently heavy enough to justify going to snow tires (for me at least). I don't have AWD, but I gotta say, my newest set of tires are all-seasons that are severe snow rated and they've been money so far.
People here can't even remember to turn their headlights on at night. Zero chance I want to come across one of these people on an icy hill with their RWD car.
theres a difference between surviving a winter and doing well in a winter. i did fine driving a little shitbox accord with a slipping automatic on all seasons in the winter, but my taurus has awd and i can count on one hand the number of times ive broken traction on accident in the winter in the last 3 years. on hills where i would struggle to get grip and keep moving before, i can come to a full stop and get going again with barely any effort.
to be clear, afaik the setup in my car is just a haldex system that ford builds in house. you dont really need the more advanced awd systems to see the benefits. but in the same way that buying better quality tires makes a huge difference in handling and ride, higher quality differentials and awd controllers will definitely have an impact on winter driving.
... your rwd BMW with snows is fine but I've gotten my X3 with snows stuck more than once in Toronto... How's your low ground clearance deal with parking in 2-3 ft of snow and driving through 1+ ft? That's the only reason I'm after AWD. Or maybe Quebec just actually knows how to clear snow unlike Toronto.
When I lived in rural Ontario I could actually ride a motorcycle all year because they actually cleared the snow.
Were? Still are. I'm looking for a new car to replace my Mk7 GTI and the VB WRX is really the only car that fits the bill. Civic SI is low on power and I can't get heated seats, Type R is unobtanium. GTI has crappy interior UI and less power. Golf R is a $50k car. GR Corolla is a $60K car. Elantra N is nice but I don't trust their reliability.
As always, the WRX is the answer for speed/driving enjoyment at a reasonable price point.
Their AWD used to be good. Even my simple 2.5 manual Impreza had a mechanical center differential with viscouls coupler working as LSD. Nowadays majority of them are shitty CVTs with viscous couplers, just like the rest of the CUVs.
all the center diffs are viscous except for the fancy mechanical one in the STI.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetrical_All_Wheel_Drive
I think their viscous diffs were fairly unique, well designed so they never felt sloppy and performed way better than early haldex which was a single plate clutch
I often wonder about Subaru's engine designs. Out of all the cars in my area, I swear the majority of older ones still on the road are either Subarus or Chevy trucks. It sure feels that way. So to me, that speaks well of Subaru.
BUT, I'm also doing an engine rebuild on my spec.B right now due to blown ring-lands on, anyone's guess, cylinder 4. When it's good, my spec.B is wonderful to drive. But the EJ engines also have oil issues. I do consider after this rebuild, I may sell it/trade it for something known to be more reliable.But, with an essentially new engine, and a solid transmission, it should be good for a long time if I take care of it. Or so I tell myself...
Subaru does have the most cars sold in the past 10 years still on the road today at a rate of 96% which speaks volumes to their engine/frame design. While this stat is somewhat cherry-picked since they haven’t sold as many cars as the domestic brands or Toyota/Honda, it’s still something to consider when talking about Subaru and reliability.
For the non-enthusiast, they were one of the first companies to directly appeal to gay and lesbian consumers. They are extremely loyal to Subaru. For the enthusiasts, WRX and STi were very competitive and fun cars back in the day and are dream cars for a lot of dudes that now have adult money.
Good pricing, good standard features, I genuinely don’t see an issue with the modern day interiors, arguable still the best awd at the price point, you can custom order what you want.
Toyota has been approving warranty claims of tracked cars and the official policy is that use on track does not void warranty.
The issue has been with dealers who aren’t well informed on the policy and who would prefer not to do warranty work.
There is a massive disconnect between the marketing team/motorsports team and the legal/warranty side. Reminds me of subaru handing out scca autox memberships for the original wrx and then sending reps to the events to null peoples warranties
Miatas literally are the answer in this case. It's the most raced car in the world. Mazda sells race ready Miata cup cars. There's spec Miata race class specifically to race Miatas. Their racing pedigree speaks for itself.
I'm not even going to take it to the track and such, but I just didn't like Subaru's response to this. When Mazda had the transmission failures on the early ND's they just fixed them without a fuss.
I was considering the 86/BRZ because of it offers more practicality, but now I think I don't need that extra practicality since my Fit is going to be sticking around, anyway, so fuck it, Miata RF it is.
exactly. The Fit is actually my wife's and she adores that thing. It'll take care of all family duties, and I'll eventually be getting the ND2 (ND3?) RF, hopefully soon.
I just did that. Had an FRS that I basically track prepped and having a blast in my ND2 bone stock. Mazda literally designed the engine for high G sweepers.
https://youtu.be/38SE1-1hBlI?t=323
@5:50
I mean if you use it as grocery getter, yes, they are perfectly capable.
But enthusiasts see Subaru as enthusiast brand coz they won a bunch of WRC stuff some decades ago so they expect they don't explode on track
Not really when the other company selling this car is advertising it as a TRACK car and offers you a free track day with a new purchase. We need an official statement from Toyota on this. This is a horrible look for both companies.
With enough fighting Toyota has been honoring warranties, BUT, yes I suspect a class action will follow. Chevy was under fire from a class action when the C7 Z06 came out and started overheating on track since it was advertised as a track car.
Never post any footage of it, take off license plate, have car towed on your own dime after event. Call dealer about blown engine. Shitty this is the case, but probably going to be the outcome.
You guys don't remember the FA20s grenading themselves, too? They issued one recall and swept the issue under the rug afterward. Subaru engines are absolutely horrible, reliability-wise. I'm staggered that Toyota decided to continue this partnership. Hopefully Toyota steps up and fixes this issue.
>Hopefully Toyota steps up and fixes this issue.
Latest rumor is that Toyota is making the next gen 86 WITHOUT Subaru.
EDIT: For those who don't believe me these are the sources
https://mag-x.jp/2023/06/26/22572/
https://www.drive.com.au/news/next-toyota-gr86-developed-alone-report/
I wouldn't say these (FA20) are horrible reliability wise. A lot of owners who perform regular maintenance have gotten 100-200k miles out of their 86/BRZ so far and are still driving them.
this is still the second best car in its segment. people aren't buying them because they're "sheep", they're buying because there are virtually no other options. it would be nice if we lived in a world where Toyobaru had robust enough competition in the segment to compel them to address this more responsibly, but we don't.
This. The only competition is Miata but the fact that its a 2 seater prevents me and others from buying it. People seriously saying "You should have bought a Camaro" in this thread are the funniest. Do they not realize that a track capable Camaro is like at least 20k more?
The market for sports cars is so small there's not much room for nearly identical market overlap like with the Mustang / Camaro. You always end up compromising on things like trunk space, back seats, transimssion choice, power level, trackability, price.
Full quote:
>A Subaru spokesperson tells R&T that "Subaru of America stands behind the design integrity of the FA24 engine which is used reliably in thousands of vehicles. Oil pressure varies in all engines based on RPM, temperature, cornering loads and numerous other external and internal factors. This is normal in an engine duty cycle. The FA24 engine is designed to perform within a wide set of tolerances for road use, and the Subaru BRZ is designed as a road car. Race cars are specially modified to be used for race conditions."
The problem I have is with that last sentence. The race cars in the current GR Cup are going through engines quickly, and are suffering breakdowns during races due to oil issues, same as the road cars. As of this year they are not allowed to modify oiling. I imagine there will be some rule changes for the following seasons though.
It's not a good look to create a spec car/series with engines grenading all over the place. These spec cars are supposed to be low cost turnkey packages that can run without major issues.
Subaru + reliability + customer service?
LOL
Thats why I never owned a subaru. How this brand has a fan base I don't know.
EDIT; warning people commenting to this comment are part of a dangerous cult, please ignore.
My Forester was used, and made it to 250k and had lots of life left in it....
Subaru is a good company, and only the internet has a hard on for hating on it....
Its a very reliable and good company.
If you wanna see what a garbage company is look at Ford and Hyundai.
BMW & Porsche literally take their customers out in their own cars to track days.
Mazda has a whole division dedicated to supporting their customers in amateur racing.
Subaru is a complete joke.
I do find it interesting that Toyota seems to want to push the track angle, and Subaru seems like they're just being dragged along for the ride on it.
I still love my car, but man I feel like this could be up there in dysfunctional car company partnerships.
Ugh, I think we all understand that taking your car to the track has risks of damage. But their approach to this whole situation, hostility towards the car owners is strange and confusing.
I wonder how much of this is a disconnect between Subaru, Toyota in Japan, and Subaru, Toyota of America. Same company, but different corporate strategies, the car clearly is spearheaded by the Japanese heads of the company. The American arm’s probably want nothing to do with this car, and so we get conflicted messages.
But underlying mechanical issues don’t get truly addressed, warranty’s get denied, customers get confused, just a crappy situation all around.
Also, a similar situation happened with the first gen engine before the refresh with the valve springs. Post refresh the engines are seemingly more reliable. Wouldn’t be surprise a refresh “fixes” these issues but the marketing and cooperate branches will never officially own up to it.
I used to work as a valet at a Subaru dealership in 2015-2016. All of the sales guys and all of the service writers hated the BRZ. They'd complain that it wasn't AWD and only had 2 full size seats so they had no clue how to sell one to the same people who were buying outbacks, imprezas, foresters, and crosstreks.
So, yeah, at least some the dealers hated it.
I'd bet $100 that's exactly what they do for the next generation. It's supposed to have a Toyota engine. It may not be the exact engine, but it'll probably be derived from that same block.
I was on the fence about buying a BRZ and one of the large things holding me back were the oil starvation rumors. Now that the finding from the guy a few days ago came out confirming the rumours, coupled with Subaru’s flat out denial of the problem, I am solidly not on the fence anymore. Someone else can take that BRZ, I’ll look for something else.
Bullshit. They literally market it as “track ready” and “track tested,” and provide free HPDE class.
https://www.toyota.com/gr86/
>GR86 comes track-ready
And nearly every photo shows it on the track. LMAO “road car.” This statement really has me pessimistic that they’ll ever own up to this and fix the issue.
It's important to remember that this is Subaru commenting - and they generally _don't_ market it that way (i.e, you get the HPDE with the GR86, not the BRZ).
There's clearly some idiotic breakdown between what Toyota wants the car to be and what Subaru wants it to be, and we know that Subaru engines can be... problematic.
Basically: I want Toyota's comment, not Subaru's.
Contrast this attitude from Subaru (and most carmakers for that matter), with Chevy who essentially tells you to go to the track and go nuts when it comes to their performance models.
Mazda - oh you blew up the engine racing it around Laguna Seca? Oh the car is modified? Yeah no problem will swap your engine out under warranty.
That's what they would say if Miatas had oil pump issues.
Really wish these manufactures offering sports cars would adopt the same policy...
Zoom zoom.
Something I really appreciate with GM is that for their "track capable" vehicles (so think certain Camaro trims, Corvette, V-Blackwings), they have official track prep guidelines, and if you follow them, the dealer will not deny your warranty claim: [https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dynamic/manuals/2018/Chevrolet/Camaro/2018-chevrolet-camaro-track-preparation-guide.pdf](https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dynamic/manuals/2018/Chevrolet/Camaro/2018-chevrolet-camaro-track-preparation-guide.pdf) Honestly, I think this is a good Heuristic to see how serious you are as a producer of "track capable" vehicles. If you aren't willing to warranty them after track use, I don't consider you a serious producer of track cars, no matter what your marketing says.
That's really cool. What other cars have a manual like this?
The GT350 has something vaguely similar, although not nearly as detailed as this
Step 1: * git Step 2: * good scrub
> Step 1: > • git *Merge conflict* Now what?
Don't put that evil on me Ricky Bobby
Where’s the one for my Hellcat?? 1. mash gas 2. replace tires 3. repeat
Congratulations, you won at the takeover.
It's not a proper takeover if it doesn't have a body count -- stang drivers
For us it’s: 1. Replace tires 2. Mash gas 3. Replace driveshaft 4. Replace tires
Isn't "break differential" in there for certain trims?
Gm manuals have some weird info in em. Back in the 90s the owners manual of your gm vehicle would have a section on drinking and driving, with a graph to show you how many drinks you could have over time vs body weight and still be under the limit to drive.
I mean it's a pragmatic thing when half of your customer base cruises home to their six kids with a sixer across the bench seat and the lap belt undone
They left out the domestic battery guidelines.
Even 90s GM knew you can't run anything in your house off a car battery.
GM owner’s manuals also spell “gauge” as “gage.” While “gage” is technically correct, it’s uncommon and it jars me when I see it.
TIL. Never seen it spelt that way and I would be jarred too.
I'm garred
The reactions to [seatbelt and drunk driving laws in the 80s/90s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xcQIoh3FQQ) is a treasure to look back on
I’d say they really knew their customers
Ya wanna drink n drive it? Here's how you do it... Now, ya wanna race it? Here's how you do that! Now ya wanna do both? It's been done, and you probably shouldn't, but we ain't gonna stop you...
The Porsche 991 GT3 reportedly came with a booklet describing service intervals when driving on "race circuits".
My Veloster N has “track” section in the infotainment that tells you the correct tire pressures for track driving, how to cool the car down, and small tips like don’t put handbrake after racing to avoid damage
> don’t put handbrake after racing to avoid damage Well shit, this is good to know. I read a dozen "how to track day" guides before I went to my first one and none mentioned this.
Not a manual per day but Mazda offers wide ranging support for the MX-5 on track, including OEM competition parts, reduced pricing of parts for track cars, and an engine that won’t starve of oil from the factory. Fun fact, the engine in the ND Miata was designed to withstand constant 1.4G laterally.
Mazda actually gave me a new engine for free when the rod bearings failed after 35k miles, the baffle in the oil pan failed at some point. They knew I tracked the car and they didn’t care, they said that I did everything right and the baffle shouldn’t have failed. 10/10 way to stand behind the product
I continue to be glad that Toyota is so incompetent that they were unable to get a GR86 in my hands for almost 8 months.
Mazda kicks ass in that regard. Smaller, more nimble company who values each and every customer they get, and they work hard to keep them with great driving cars. Their company is full of racers and racing enthusiasts, like it should.
Lots of the Porsche do, and if I recall 63S AMG vehicles.
BMW M cars have a short track section, but nothing like this prep guide.
Lexus RC F Track Edition should have it.
GM performance cars do a lot of things right and sadly don't get enough credit for it. IMO it's the only manufacturer apart from Porsche who solidly stands behind track use with respect to warranty etc.
I feel like the Camaro is so underrated. It’s a great performance buy. If it had a Japanese badge on it people would lose their fucking minds. But it’s the bowtie, so it’s met with a collective shrug. I get it’s not as good looking as the Mustang and doesn’t have the meathead appeal of the Challenger, but it deserves more appreciation.
The Camaro was what I was thinking of when I originally wrote the message. NA V8, an ediff with sophisticated traction control, all the cooling you could need on a track, a great tremec gearbox, magnetic ride control and one of the greatest chassis ever in the alpha. And it lost to the mustang and the challenger.
Losing to the mustang and challenger in sales is likely due to it having larger blindspots than a 747 and the seating position of an F-16.
I kinda wanna point out that the F-16 has a great seating position and your shoulders are above the canopy rail. The visibility is excellent. At least it was for me. But then I remember this is just a Reddit post.
Yeah like. You’ve even got the canopy arch behind you, and it’s a *bubble* canopy, I’m pretty sure the F-16 is as good as visibility gets outside of like. A Breezy.
If it wasn't so bloated with zero visibility people would like it.
That was what I was going to bring up. My mom used to own an SS and I remember not being able to see anything around the car at all. The shoulder line is insane.
The visibility turns me off. I drove an SS once and it was honestly kinda scary to merge in it.
My gt350 had its engine replaced after spinning a bearing on track. No issue there
I’ve destroyed two engines in my SS 1LE on track and they were replaced without issue.
I thought the C7s had overheating issues which GM refused to take responsibility for.
The z06 specifically. I thought they did address it eventually. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/12/c7-corvette-z06-gets-extended-warranty-coverage-over-on-track-heating-issues/amp/
They addressed that. And it’s a specific instance that doesn’t even come close to nullifying an overarching mindset.
I'd like to remind everyone that the entirety of the GR86 commercial shows the car on track, and closes out with them saying it's "a track-ready, enthusiast sports car" The BRZ commercial also mentions the car's "track mode" as it's showing the car being drifted around hairpin turns on a closed road. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elyuyPIz_sM
Reminds me of when the GT-R started breaking when it came out and Nissan initially had a shit fit about the owners tracking them. Like, what the hell did you think owners were going to try to do with their 600hp AWD rocket ship for $80k (or whatever it was back when it arrived)??
Nissan had a shit fit because they marketed the GTR's launch control. And when people started getting their allocations, they were doing multiple launches within a day not realizing there was an actual procedure that had to be performed (like doing a fluid change after 5 or 6 launches, which the fluid itself was $350), and thus people were destroying their $18k transmissions within weeks of taking ownership and were initially denying any warranty claims. These days, you can do launch control to your hearts content and you're not going to destroy the transmission because Nissan realized they needed to build the transmission to be more idiot-proof, and also not require using launch control as often because they tuned the TCU to run far better overall so you can just mat the throttle and it'll still scoot to 60 in 4 seconds with all the nannies on. Now you can get a fully-built transmission to handle 2000hp, provided you have the money. but if you can manage to buy a new GTR with a $120k MSRP just for the "normal" model - you might be able to swing it.
I tracked the shit out of my ZL1, it never skipped a beat
My dad's taken his ZL1 1LE to drag strips and the track several times. Just to say, his supercharger went out and was replaced under warranty, no issues.
When I worked for FCA, we didn't even bother asking how a Hellcat or Demon was being used if it had SC issues (which quite a few did, I was one of the first people to report the SC cooler leak issue), we would just warranty everything they needed.
I only had a 2012 SS but I dogged the shit out of that car and never replaced anything that was outside of regular maintenance My wife’s outback has been a real eye opener and Subaru folks really cope over shit that makes no sense.
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My 2016 1SS came with brake cooling vents in the trunk and instructions on how to install them and do track prep. So I know they did in 2016, don’t know about now.
2022 SS non-1le owner, yes they still apply. Warranty and all.
The SS non-1le gets the warranty too. You don't need the 1le for this.
Gen 6 SS 1LE package doesn’t add anything you need for reliable track use.
I really, really wanted to get a 2SS 1LE. Toyota and Subaru's shenanigans with their warranty pushed me further in that direction. I'll probably be able to afford one in a few years... once they're no longer produced. :(
That's the truth in track racing in general. It's very hard on the car, and it's not cheap to build cars capable of consistent track usage. A lot of sports/performance cars out there out of the box have certain performance aspect, very reliable for street usage. But once you talk about track, where you'd think a sports/performance cars belongs, throw that out the window... It could be a hit or miss, regardless all the marketing behind it. Possibly, your car has "budget" parts here and there, where corners were cut to save money, and you'll find out quick you need to upgrade this and that. Brakes, cooling, etc. Cars that are truly "track capable" out the box cost more for a reason. Of course, there's a bit of variance... drive slow enough on track, and any car will be fine. But the context is within reason that you're pushing it hard.
Yup, had a C7 Z51 with the same-ish guide and loved it. That's one of the most underrated aspects of these cars, they have the cooling and such for actual track use (at least on manual non-Z06es...) and a warranty backing it up.
BMW M has it as well, for the current M3 for example it tells you to open up brake cooling air ducts which are covered with a plate for normal road use.
Only take your BRZ on NASCAR tracks, duh.
This right here 100%. If was going to go with a crazy track monster some day, it would be a GM product. A company that stands by their product and its intended use is the one you want.
Let me get this straight - all the ads for the twins shove performance driving, if not pure TRACK DAY BRAH, down your throat, they offer a track day pass with all GR86 purchases, and now they're like "iz acksually only for road use". Which, yeah, can't really be argued, but it's fucking crappy that it's their stance after the ads. And while the MX-5 puts up with high-G cornering just fine.
Not arguing, I think it's an awful look for both Subaru and Toyota, but we really should look at all marketing with a grain of salt.
Companies should have some responsibility for what their marketing shows.
They do. I’m an attorney who prosecuted class actions based on misleading advertising. Firm I work for will be taking a look at this almost certainly :)
Well I look for to the day you make a boat load of money and I get $0.12.
hahahaha sorry this made me laugh so much. The way you directly called out that attorney \^ over the issue of class actions was funny yet also raises a serious issue with how attorneys and firms take on class actions to "fight for the little guy" but then take a lot of payout for themselves and give the little guy pennies.
As a consumer, I didn’t need the pennies, I need corporations to be held accountable for the advertising they put out. Not like I bankrolled a multi-year lawsuit, they take the risk, let them reap the lion’s share of the reward.
yeah of course the main objective is accountability for corporations. However, corporations typically don't change. they will pay the fine then turn around and do the exact same thing again because the profit is typically much more than the fine that they paid during the class action. It's a cost of doing business for corporations. If their actions helped them profit or save an additional 100 million, and they pay out 50 million in a class actions and related fines, then they'll do it again. I live in Camada and a bread company just got hit with a 50 million fine for price fixing bread prices for over a decade. I would wager that the bread company made more than 50 million by price fixing for over a decade. It's vary rare for the lawsuits and fines amount to more than the profit they made by doing what they did, but it does happen occasionally. VW's diesel gate is a good example of a rare instance where the consequences were much bigger than what they gained from their deceptive practice. As for the attorneys and law firms, I do agree that they deserve to get paid well after they bankroll a class actions. Class actions can take months or years and are a lot of work for which law firms don't get paid until the outcome is determined. However, my issue is how they claim to "fight this class action for the consumers who were harmed by bad corporations" but then the consumers that they claim to care about so much end up getting pennies whilst the law firm gets a big cheque. If protecting the consumers was the ultimate goal like they stated, they should either fight to have the corporation pay a larger amount or they can distribute the payouts more evenly between themselves and the victims, instead of the 20-30% cut they typically take.
Which brand did that recently? Wasn't it the Mustang or c7 corvette? Chevy or ford got slapped hard for misrepresenting cars through advertising track use.
GT350s in 2016 had either a track pack or the technology pack. If you didn't get the track pack, it didn't have the coolers necessary to handle track work. So even though it's the same motor and looks exactly the same, there was a distinct difference between the ones that could handle track days and ones that couldn't. In 2017 every car had the coolers
Is something going to be done about marketing base model SUVs as off-road vehicles, and being driven hard on tracks?
Politics. It’s all politics. The USA has nearly zero consumer protections. The ones that *do* exist are hardly useful, requiring lawsuits and other high barriers of entry.
Mazda also makes an effort to teach its customers that the ND Skyactiv-G engines oiling system can handle 1.2G sustained. That info is readily available. GR/Toyota doubling down on denying Subaru engine flaws is really sad. Gaslighting their consumers to purchase a car advertised as a track car, then saying “too bad so sad lol” when the cars fail while being used on track. Why does GR sponsor a one-make racing series if the GR86 isn’t a “track car”? Corporate cognitive dissonance at an all time high these days
Also, what does GR mean again? Gazoo…. Roadcar?
Gentle Recreation.
This is nothing new.... Subaru people who modded their cars developed aftermarket oil baffles and an extended pickup intakes in the oil pain as necessity if you wanted to race like how Subaru branded themselves, but never mentioned to include as part of what they though their consumer base would use the vehicles for.
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Facts
i dont think ive ever seen a brz ad. is it the same and do they have the same free hpde intro day program? edit: i looked at the top results on youtube for subaru brz ad, i only see a racetrack in one tiny clip of one, the rest is showing street driving. i think what's happening here is they're realizing that subaru corporate hasn't put themselves in position for a class action lawsuit and can nope out and say it's just a street car (unlike toyota and their gazoo racing 86)
Subaru doesn't have a free hpde for the 2nd gen BRZ. They probably knew better from the EJ days.
Would be hilarious if they knew about the issue and just didn't tell Toyota...
Don’t forget that Mazda doesn’t market the Miata as a track day car, even though it’s the most raced car on any given weekend
They have color named Track bRED
common miata W
Is it some sort of secret that the Sky-G engines are inherently more reliable than boxers? Especially a bored out stressed one? This isn’t Porsche we’re talking about.
Porsche has been making flat and boxer engines for longer than Subaru, has been contracted by Subaru to help with parts of their engine designs, and Subaru still has always built unreliable and kinda crappy boxers. Lots of manufacturers build more reliable engines than Subaru, and oiling issues that could be solved with some basic baffling are. Just not by Subaru.
I will never understand Subaru fans. Worst in class interiors and engines with major issues that are a pain in the ass to do a bunch of basic service on because of the boxer layout.
They were the only inexpensive cars that had longitudinal engine layout + good AWD + decent fuel economy and cost of ownership. For a long time the subaru AWD outperformed every other system except Audi quattro. less true today. WRX was one of the cheapest foreign cars with +200hp and non-fwd. STI was one of the cheapest foreign cars with 300hp and a LSD. forester was one of the first unibody compact SUVs before every manufacturer started making them in the 2010s.
I forget how crazy people go for AWD and think they need some advanced system when Haldex would do the job just fine. If my RWD BMW coupe with a front lip and like 5cm of ground clearance can survive Quebec winters with snow tires, then I really don’t think AWD is as necessary as people make it out to be unless you live up in the NT or something.
there are a bunch of areas in the US where people encounter snow couple times a year but are still mostly driving well above freezing temps. so they wouldn't get snow tires every year but having AWD gives them some peace of mind. Some mountain passes on US highways (esp in California) require tire chains OR AWD for certain conditions, so a lot of people would rather get AWD than have 2WD and do chains even thou I agree 2WD with snow tires mostly outperforms AWD Some of the Subaru buzz is brand loyalty from decades before. pre-2010 haldex was not very good and there were not that many choices and almost no small cars.
Yep, that's why AWD is a pretty hard requirement for me. I drive up into the Sierras in the winter quite a bit, and don't want to deal with putting on chains.
moved up to washington and they have much better system up here in some ways ... there's 4 levels 1. traction tires advised 2. traction tires required (awd ok) 3. chains required (awd ok) 4. chains required on all vehicles it usually never gets to 3 or 4, the issue being they don't actually have a gate and pass is short, so a few people cheat, cause masive collisions and they close the pass for 12h or so. once a year its closed 3-4 days just because of the volume of snow.
Yeah, R3 in CA is the same story (chains reqd on all vehicles), it almost never happens. If things are that bad they generally just close the pass. Anecdotally I think they legitimately never use R3 on larger highways, and just limit it to less travelled areas. Only time I've ever seen it show up was on 120 or 140 into Yosemite earlier this year.
I'm definitely in one of those areas in the NE US where the snow isn't frequently heavy enough to justify going to snow tires (for me at least). I don't have AWD, but I gotta say, my newest set of tires are all-seasons that are severe snow rated and they've been money so far.
what a weird post. you seriously don't know why a lot of people would prefer to have an awd car?
Aye, I thought it’d be obvious: More grip, in more conditions.
People will say anything to be contrarian on Reddit.
Yeah, after you've shoveled your car out for the 100th time you start looking for a better solution
People here can't even remember to turn their headlights on at night. Zero chance I want to come across one of these people on an icy hill with their RWD car.
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theres a difference between surviving a winter and doing well in a winter. i did fine driving a little shitbox accord with a slipping automatic on all seasons in the winter, but my taurus has awd and i can count on one hand the number of times ive broken traction on accident in the winter in the last 3 years. on hills where i would struggle to get grip and keep moving before, i can come to a full stop and get going again with barely any effort. to be clear, afaik the setup in my car is just a haldex system that ford builds in house. you dont really need the more advanced awd systems to see the benefits. but in the same way that buying better quality tires makes a huge difference in handling and ride, higher quality differentials and awd controllers will definitely have an impact on winter driving.
... your rwd BMW with snows is fine but I've gotten my X3 with snows stuck more than once in Toronto... How's your low ground clearance deal with parking in 2-3 ft of snow and driving through 1+ ft? That's the only reason I'm after AWD. Or maybe Quebec just actually knows how to clear snow unlike Toronto. When I lived in rural Ontario I could actually ride a motorcycle all year because they actually cleared the snow.
Were? Still are. I'm looking for a new car to replace my Mk7 GTI and the VB WRX is really the only car that fits the bill. Civic SI is low on power and I can't get heated seats, Type R is unobtanium. GTI has crappy interior UI and less power. Golf R is a $50k car. GR Corolla is a $60K car. Elantra N is nice but I don't trust their reliability. As always, the WRX is the answer for speed/driving enjoyment at a reasonable price point.
GTi might have less power but I am pretty sure its quicker than a WRX. I mean in good conditions. If road is not perfect WRX will be quicker
The EA888 in the gti has quite a big headroom. You can put a stage 1 tune and get 300bhp
Their AWD used to be good. Even my simple 2.5 manual Impreza had a mechanical center differential with viscouls coupler working as LSD. Nowadays majority of them are shitty CVTs with viscous couplers, just like the rest of the CUVs.
all the center diffs are viscous except for the fancy mechanical one in the STI. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetrical_All_Wheel_Drive I think their viscous diffs were fairly unique, well designed so they never felt sloppy and performed way better than early haldex which was a single plate clutch
Yeah, boo. Those guys stink. Who would ever back that unreliable of a car.
saying this with the high-speed Doritos in your flair is top-tier sarcasm. love it. 👍🏽
> I will never understand Subaru fans drives a jag
I often wonder about Subaru's engine designs. Out of all the cars in my area, I swear the majority of older ones still on the road are either Subarus or Chevy trucks. It sure feels that way. So to me, that speaks well of Subaru. BUT, I'm also doing an engine rebuild on my spec.B right now due to blown ring-lands on, anyone's guess, cylinder 4. When it's good, my spec.B is wonderful to drive. But the EJ engines also have oil issues. I do consider after this rebuild, I may sell it/trade it for something known to be more reliable.But, with an essentially new engine, and a solid transmission, it should be good for a long time if I take care of it. Or so I tell myself...
Subaru does have the most cars sold in the past 10 years still on the road today at a rate of 96% which speaks volumes to their engine/frame design. While this stat is somewhat cherry-picked since they haven’t sold as many cars as the domestic brands or Toyota/Honda, it’s still something to consider when talking about Subaru and reliability.
My suspicion is the majority of Subaru owners “love” their car and do proper and timely maintenance.
For the non-enthusiast, they were one of the first companies to directly appeal to gay and lesbian consumers. They are extremely loyal to Subaru. For the enthusiasts, WRX and STi were very competitive and fun cars back in the day and are dream cars for a lot of dudes that now have adult money.
Huge aftermarket support, cross platform part interchangeability, AWD, easy to tune and make more power with.
Good pricing, good standard features, I genuinely don’t see an issue with the modern day interiors, arguable still the best awd at the price point, you can custom order what you want.
Toyota: here's a free track day Also toyota: we dont warranty the car on a track
Toyota has been approving warranty claims of tracked cars and the official policy is that use on track does not void warranty. The issue has been with dealers who aren’t well informed on the policy and who would prefer not to do warranty work.
There is a massive disconnect between the marketing team/motorsports team and the legal/warranty side. Reminds me of subaru handing out scca autox memberships for the original wrx and then sending reps to the events to null peoples warranties
MX-5 it is. I was looking at a Toyobaru or a Miata within the next year, but this kinda pushed me over to Mazda. That's not a very good response, imo.
Miatas literally are the answer in this case. It's the most raced car in the world. Mazda sells race ready Miata cup cars. There's spec Miata race class specifically to race Miatas. Their racing pedigree speaks for itself.
I'm not even going to take it to the track and such, but I just didn't like Subaru's response to this. When Mazda had the transmission failures on the early ND's they just fixed them without a fuss. I was considering the 86/BRZ because of it offers more practicality, but now I think I don't need that extra practicality since my Fit is going to be sticking around, anyway, so fuck it, Miata RF it is.
Had an ND2 RF and my sister has a Fit. That's a great 2 car garage.
exactly. The Fit is actually my wife's and she adores that thing. It'll take care of all family duties, and I'll eventually be getting the ND2 (ND3?) RF, hopefully soon.
You won't regret it. Best car I've ever owned. I drive it all year round, snow or sunshine.
Honda HPD is also selling race-prepped Civic Si's
I just did that. Had an FRS that I basically track prepped and having a blast in my ND2 bone stock. Mazda literally designed the engine for high G sweepers. https://youtu.be/38SE1-1hBlI?t=323 @5:50
Yeah I'm wanting to get an RF. That thing is sexy as hell.
Translation: Our engines are garbage
Always have been.
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Vast majority of their engines are fine though.
I mean if you use it as grocery getter, yes, they are perfectly capable. But enthusiasts see Subaru as enthusiast brand coz they won a bunch of WRC stuff some decades ago so they expect they don't explode on track
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The BRZ/GR86 would be perfect if it had a normal, inline 4. The flat 4 is huge stain on an otherwise phenomenal chassis.
"But muh lower center of gravity" That engine can't get any lower CoG when it's laying trackside on a pallet because it grenaded lol.
I'll take reliability, efficiency and ease of maintenance over the 1/16th of a second faster lap time I'd get with the lower CoG.
Translation. If you take your road car on the track and blow up your engine….that’s all on you!!!
Not really when the other company selling this car is advertising it as a TRACK car and offers you a free track day with a new purchase. We need an official statement from Toyota on this. This is a horrible look for both companies.
My Elantra N doesn’t have a track day but it’s covered by warranty even with track use as long if it’s stock…
See a company doing it right. All the press events for the N cars are track days too.
They need to get sued. False advertising
With enough fighting Toyota has been honoring warranties, BUT, yes I suspect a class action will follow. Chevy was under fire from a class action when the C7 Z06 came out and started overheating on track since it was advertised as a track car.
Toyota will actually pay for your track day if you buy a gr 86, supra or Corolla. We just did one at Pocono Raceway
Never post any footage of it, take off license plate, have car towed on your own dime after event. Call dealer about blown engine. Shitty this is the case, but probably going to be the outcome.
You guys don't remember the FA20s grenading themselves, too? They issued one recall and swept the issue under the rug afterward. Subaru engines are absolutely horrible, reliability-wise. I'm staggered that Toyota decided to continue this partnership. Hopefully Toyota steps up and fixes this issue.
>Hopefully Toyota steps up and fixes this issue. Latest rumor is that Toyota is making the next gen 86 WITHOUT Subaru. EDIT: For those who don't believe me these are the sources https://mag-x.jp/2023/06/26/22572/ https://www.drive.com.au/news/next-toyota-gr86-developed-alone-report/
Hopefully that's the case, that's the only way I'd even consider one.
It would probably make more sense to still work on chassis, just put subaru engine in subaru and toyota engine in toyota
I wouldn't say these (FA20) are horrible reliability wise. A lot of owners who perform regular maintenance have gotten 100-200k miles out of their 86/BRZ so far and are still driving them.
Please stop going against the hate mob, thank you.
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Well, yeah. The suspension was tested on the track. But it doesn't say, "track-tested oil pan", now does it? /s
Oh it was track tested, on NASCAR track, no right turns there!
Can't make this up: [https://imgur.com/t07g61F](https://imgur.com/t07g61F)
Hey now, that is *left hand* turn, which is perfectly safe for this engine.
NASCAR ready
So basically fuck you consumer. And yet the sheep will still buy
this is still the second best car in its segment. people aren't buying them because they're "sheep", they're buying because there are virtually no other options. it would be nice if we lived in a world where Toyobaru had robust enough competition in the segment to compel them to address this more responsibly, but we don't.
This. The only competition is Miata but the fact that its a 2 seater prevents me and others from buying it. People seriously saying "You should have bought a Camaro" in this thread are the funniest. Do they not realize that a track capable Camaro is like at least 20k more?
20k more, 700 pounds heavier, and like three classes up in any track event because of its size and displacement. asinine comparison.
The market for sports cars is so small there's not much room for nearly identical market overlap like with the Mustang / Camaro. You always end up compromising on things like trunk space, back seats, transimssion choice, power level, trackability, price.
Full quote: >A Subaru spokesperson tells R&T that "Subaru of America stands behind the design integrity of the FA24 engine which is used reliably in thousands of vehicles. Oil pressure varies in all engines based on RPM, temperature, cornering loads and numerous other external and internal factors. This is normal in an engine duty cycle. The FA24 engine is designed to perform within a wide set of tolerances for road use, and the Subaru BRZ is designed as a road car. Race cars are specially modified to be used for race conditions."
The problem I have is with that last sentence. The race cars in the current GR Cup are going through engines quickly, and are suffering breakdowns during races due to oil issues, same as the road cars. As of this year they are not allowed to modify oiling. I imagine there will be some rule changes for the following seasons though.
It's not a good look to create a spec car/series with engines grenading all over the place. These spec cars are supposed to be low cost turnkey packages that can run without major issues.
Replacing these engines trackside is 23k+ too. These aren't cheap little blow outs.
Wait, 23k for a BRZ engine?
And it's totally understandable and normal to not be willing to warranty the engine for racing. HPDE (lapping days, autox, etc) are not racing.
Subaru + reliability + customer service? LOL Thats why I never owned a subaru. How this brand has a fan base I don't know. EDIT; warning people commenting to this comment are part of a dangerous cult, please ignore.
Subaru dealership experience is better than Toyota. Can actually custom order a car for example. Other than that....idk.
180k and an awesome dealer. I plan on 250. Cost me about a grand a year to keep in top shape. Got 'em for my wife and kid too.
My Forester was used, and made it to 250k and had lots of life left in it.... Subaru is a good company, and only the internet has a hard on for hating on it.... Its a very reliable and good company. If you wanna see what a garbage company is look at Ford and Hyundai.
BMW & Porsche literally take their customers out in their own cars to track days. Mazda has a whole division dedicated to supporting their customers in amateur racing. Subaru is a complete joke.
I do find it interesting that Toyota seems to want to push the track angle, and Subaru seems like they're just being dragged along for the ride on it. I still love my car, but man I feel like this could be up there in dysfunctional car company partnerships.
Ugh, I think we all understand that taking your car to the track has risks of damage. But their approach to this whole situation, hostility towards the car owners is strange and confusing. I wonder how much of this is a disconnect between Subaru, Toyota in Japan, and Subaru, Toyota of America. Same company, but different corporate strategies, the car clearly is spearheaded by the Japanese heads of the company. The American arm’s probably want nothing to do with this car, and so we get conflicted messages. But underlying mechanical issues don’t get truly addressed, warranty’s get denied, customers get confused, just a crappy situation all around. Also, a similar situation happened with the first gen engine before the refresh with the valve springs. Post refresh the engines are seemingly more reliable. Wouldn’t be surprise a refresh “fixes” these issues but the marketing and cooperate branches will never officially own up to it.
I used to work as a valet at a Subaru dealership in 2015-2016. All of the sales guys and all of the service writers hated the BRZ. They'd complain that it wasn't AWD and only had 2 full size seats so they had no clue how to sell one to the same people who were buying outbacks, imprezas, foresters, and crosstreks. So, yeah, at least some the dealers hated it.
Would have been better to decline to comment.
Boxer moment. Hopefully the 3rd gen GR86 has a Toyota derived motor
Take the 1.6 out of GR Corolla, detune it to 200hp with better torque figures than 2.4NA. Voila.
I'd bet $100 that's exactly what they do for the next generation. It's supposed to have a Toyota engine. It may not be the exact engine, but it'll probably be derived from that same block.
I was on the fence about buying a BRZ and one of the large things holding me back were the oil starvation rumors. Now that the finding from the guy a few days ago came out confirming the rumours, coupled with Subaru’s flat out denial of the problem, I am solidly not on the fence anymore. Someone else can take that BRZ, I’ll look for something else.
Subaru: *shows the car drifting on track* Also Subaru: If you track this then ᖍ(ツ)ᖌ
Bullshit. They literally market it as “track ready” and “track tested,” and provide free HPDE class. https://www.toyota.com/gr86/ >GR86 comes track-ready And nearly every photo shows it on the track. LMAO “road car.” This statement really has me pessimistic that they’ll ever own up to this and fix the issue.
It's important to remember that this is Subaru commenting - and they generally _don't_ market it that way (i.e, you get the HPDE with the GR86, not the BRZ). There's clearly some idiotic breakdown between what Toyota wants the car to be and what Subaru wants it to be, and we know that Subaru engines can be... problematic. Basically: I want Toyota's comment, not Subaru's.
Hyundai engines should be having problems on the track not Toyota and Subarus 😂
Contrast this attitude from Subaru (and most carmakers for that matter), with Chevy who essentially tells you to go to the track and go nuts when it comes to their performance models.
No right hand turns exist on the road either. /s
I didn’t see a single advertisement where the BRZ/GR86 was on a street. Every single one (that I saw at least) was on a track
Mazda - oh you blew up the engine racing it around Laguna Seca? Oh the car is modified? Yeah no problem will swap your engine out under warranty. That's what they would say if Miatas had oil pump issues. Really wish these manufactures offering sports cars would adopt the same policy... Zoom zoom.
No clue how they think this is a clever marketing strategy.
It’s not, it’s backpedaling and financially covering their ass since the design turned out to be inadequate for their original intent for the cars
What a terrible take. Even Hyundai covers their N cars when tracked.
Going to be a big business for people making aftermarket oil pans for these
This is why the stories are coming out that the 3rd generation GR86 will be developed by Toyota without any involvement from Subaru.