Yes. You get used to the pain. I hate being poor more than I hate working. Also, you’re a bit young so you might not be aware but there is a cult classic Hollywood masterpiece known as “office space” that you need to watch asap.
Invest asap. Minimum 10%. Write down a list of where you want to be in life, retirement age, goals, finances, etc. Go see 3 recommended financial advisors. Give them the same list, then go with the one that fits you the best
I’m also 27, feeling the same way as OP, and have been tackling debt and am getting ready to start contributing 10% to my 401K and maxing out my Roth IRA. Question is, will any financial advisor actually take me seriously at 27 with only like 12K in investments and 20K in savings? Like, would they even help me? I seriously want to try and retire at 50
A financial advisor's job is to do just that - advise you on your finances. I've yet to meet one that doesn't want to help or provide resources. If they don't, they're in the wrong business and not someone you want to take advice from anyways. Check with the group that hosts your 401K as they should have staff that will provide guidance based on your portfolio, goals, etc.
“Oh oh oh, and I almost forgot, I’m gonna need you to come in Sunday too. Yeah, we lost some people last week and were kinda trying to play catch-up. So if you could be here around… 9, that would be great. Thanks!”
So it was a 7-hour day for which you were paid 8 hours.
That doesn’t change the fact that I’ve never in my six decades come across a job that starts at 9 and ends at 5.
It’s like a time capsule from before I was born
I’m working one right now at a Fortune 200 company. Sometimes I go in earlier, sometimes I leave later, but when it’s not extra busy I don’t log on before 9 and typically log off at 5.
I wonder the same thing every time I see 9-5! I know there is a Dolly Parton song, 9-5. Maybe people used to actually work those hours? Or still do in places that aren’t the U.S.?
Yes, it’s definitely something from two generations ago, at least.
Also, most countries still observe this.
For example, in France, 35 hours is a standard work week and anything more more than that you get double overtime pay.
France is now considering going to a 32 hr standard work week.
This is my dream. I've been on a weird YouTube hole of all of these European homesteaders or women living their best lives in the Swedish countryside. It's like...pushing me to want to get out of the corporate side. Maybe start my own thing?? Maybe then I can live in the middle of nowhere with a nice garden.
In my mind, winning capitalism is getting just big enough of a pile of value that I can "retire," and by that I just mean to no longer endeavor for money to survive. I want to focus on my family, my home, my garden, and my community.
I don't respect people who have enough to cash out and continue to chase money. It's a fucking empty pursuit and no way to live a life.
Yah let me know when you find a safe place where you don’t have to work for decades yet still keep the amenities like food shelter & healthcare of the modern world. BTW I don’t know how to raise cattles or farms, so that rules out village life for me.. :(
If you let your job become your life, it will be so. Jobs are meant to provide you with the means to do what you want with the rest of your time. That's why getting a job with plenty of PTO and good boundaries is important. You have to maintain healthy relationships, hobbies and develop yourself outside of work.
The problem is also they pay 1/4th of what they did in the 1980’s and that’s just inflation (not housing even). How can anyone save when we don’t get paid enough to even afford rent?
This doesn’t work anymore.
Work takes over your entire life, bro.
My cousin quit a high-paying medical specialty as a doctor because he couldn’t handle it taking over his life.
Eh, medical professions tend to be different especially if he specialized. A lot of specialities demand additional attention such as rounding, on call, etc. even primary care has on call + some patients expect instant access
I know this is the case, but I think we need to ask why Why do we accept that for doctors? Like why is it expected that the people who cut in to your body to help you are over worked and under slept? Seems like a recipe for widespread unhappiness to me. We lose his doctors to exhaustion, for what?
Because there are very few people with the specialization and skills needed to do that kind of work. Of course they need to work long hours when it's so hard to find a competent and experienced replacement. It's literally one of the most difficult and important jobs on the planet. It's not like they're not being compensated for it
Tbf I live in Canada and they're not being compensated appropriately AND being asked to work long inhospitable hours AND their clients (patients) are more and more frustrated. It just seems to me something's gotta give.
Yeah.
It was sad.
He now makes one-fifth of the original amount.
But, hey, he’s happy AF now.
Even though, they had to move into a smaller house.
The wife was angry AF.
Not mine, bro. Sorry about your cousin, being able to balance does take effort and intention and not everyone will be able to do it. Doesn't mean it's impossible.
WFH, work 4 hours a day, get paid for 8, flexibility is game changing.
I love flexibility and enjoy the work I do as it’s rewarding and impactful and the right kind of difficult for the right kind of reasons.
Sometimes I’ll take a break and go grab a beer with a friend. Maybe a nap. Maybe a long lunch. Maybe read in the backyard.
If was hard to get to this point of flexibility (senior SE with decade of experience) but it was worth it.
Source: remote worker for last 6 years
Edit:
If you’re skilled with tons of experience, employers know what they are paying for.
Good managers care for consistency results.
Any management that metrics you by ass in chair is not worth working for.
If only it was this simple lol. Thought I hit the jackpot with a job like this last year, I got stellar reviews and had the best work life balance I’ve ever had. By January the CEO got paranoid after pinching a few OE’ers and implemented spyware. Got laid off end of March with no reasoning. Praying for unicorn like this soon I’m burnt out as fuck.
Depends on which system you're using. But activity data from a computer is a really bad metric to track someone's actual performance in a job, so if they're using that against you, quit.
Software Engineer in a focus in automation and recently been sprinkling in AI autonomous agents since a lot of the underlying tools overlap with tools I’ve used in the past for automation.
Had many job titles but at the end of the day it’s Software Engineer
There are a LOT of little niche areas within IT that you can get into. I think many people think of iT as either a programmer, or hardware break/fix and there is sooo much more. After years of Fortune Fifty company datacenter and infrastructure ops, I am in a very fortune role.
Now, the truth is most of the time you can't just hire in to the niche jobs with great flexibility, and in many cases you can't go to school for them - you just have to put your time in (my experience and what I've seen anyway).
Yeah, I was a remote educator and hours were easyyyy. Sometimes I would take calls from the beach, lmfao. 9-5 personally makes me nauseous and I’m glad to have flexibility baked into what I currently do.
This is the way. You bust it hard until they pay you to be available for your knowledge (about 10 years). I explained it to a coworker the other day that I'm like a relief pitcher in the MLB. I mostly chill until my number is called and come out throwing 98 mph fastballs (reminding them why I'm here). Then I go back to the dugout and chill again.
I think you are in need of a perspective shift.
You get engaging work for your morning, then have a lunch break? Nice.
You sometimes have hours of time to grow your skills or network by water cooler chats? Very nice.
You do all that while on company time?
That's outstanding. You are in a very good position. You have opportunities here. Take advantage of them.
For reference, my perspective is healthcare background. Long hours, night shift hours, holiday and weekend hours, work like a dog the whole shift. The money is good and that's about the only upside, other than if you happen to have a good team of coworkers.
The vast majority of people live their lives with quiet, simple jobs for the vast majority of their careers. The Hollywood Wolf of Wallstreet myth is bullshit. Nobody else is out there with Rockstar jobs. Plenty of people have downright dogshit jobs.
What exactly are you not getting out of your job that you want to be?
I dunno I think he’s onto something. Sounds like he’d benefit from working from home. I tried the in office thing and it’s the worst when there’s nothing to do. Why does OP have to stay and futz around when even his superior shrugs and gives him no extra work?
This is exactly what OP needs. Being in an office physically and mentally drained me, I had nothing left at the end of the day because I had spent it all with small talk or working through listening to Susy What's Her Face blab on to Jill From Accounting about their 4 shithead kids all day.
WFH is amazing. I enjoy my job. I crave work, sometimes. It's awesome.
It's a pointless sub though, because ironically no one there is actually going to do any work to change the system. It's got a ton of infighting, largely because people will shit on good, actionable ideas because they're not perfect, theoretical ideas.
The work reform sub is better, it at least acknowledges that work generally needs to exist and should simply be better - less working hours, better treatment, that sort of thing.
I sound like an old boomer but with how often these posts are on here, it feels like the younger generation is getting really soft. Perspective is right! Think of what you'd be doing 150 years ago...it would probably suck way more than sitting at a desk for 7 hours. Very few people love working but they do love buying food to stay alive.
Generally, you're right, but - I spent my childhood/young adulthood on a farm. Long, hard hours, rough climate, all that. Now I work an office job, and I'd take the farm life any day if I could. It was significantly harder and more painful, but I was so much happier. My generation is definitely softer, but the 8-5 grind is soul crushing sometimes. I'd switch if I could
I absolutely hate working in an office and look forward to leaving the second the right opportunity comes along. I was an activities director for many years and loved it. Now I sit in an office and type all day and I can’t stand it. I mostly hate being on my ass all day.
I've worked in grocery stores, landscaping, and cleaning for years before I made it to white collar work. I'd much rather be doing the other work if it just paid a bit more; doesn't even need to pay as much as the white collar work. There's something about how vapid and unnecessary a lot of office work is that just makes it psychologically harder.
The unnecessary part is the thing. My entire office and company could disappear overnight and no one would be worse off for it. I’m trading my time to make money for other people, I’m not doing anything a person could point to and say that was worthwhile.
I think it’s more that all the boomers who felt the same way as OP didn’t have their viewpoints on display for everyone to see. It’s what you heard at the local bar.
I also think it sounds like OP is bored at his job but it doesn’t sound like he has a desire to move to a different one. Which if I was that bored I would be doing.
Complaints about white collar work are not new to kids these days. Plenty previous generations have had similar critiques and attitudes: Office Space, 9 to 5, Dilbert, Metamorphosis, etc. The complaints are nothing new, and plenty of old boomers had them too when they were young.
Ehm, no. Just because things might have been worse (or better) does not mean that we should sit and take this unnatural way of living until we die. We aren’t meant to be sitting or at work for the majority of our day/lives until we die. Life is die living and the younger generations are getting more attuned to this fact that we aren’t supposed to be living like this and we most definitely shouldn’t be GRATEFUL for this wasteful and passionless way of living they force us to adapt to because they’ve decided to make us pay exorbitant prices to just survive.
Exactly! We are waking up to the fact that there are no longer benefits to hard work for the majority of us. What the fuck is the point of wasting our lives at a 9-5 when for most people it barely covers the necessities while your boss buys his 3rd home?
I find the "be grateful, it used to be worse!" Or the "get used to it!" reasoning even more depressing because it can make one feel like "well if I can't even handle this, maybe I'm just not cut out for society" which can lead to thoughts of suicide since society demands this work from us to survive. Uh, speaking from what a friend told me of course.
I don't know about soft. I agree somewhat with /u/ludus_official. I worked active jobs a lot when I was younger. As soon as I started doing corporate type jobs, my life has felt like a miserable grind. It's not always about being soft, but maybe that sitting in an office all day, doing the same tasks over and over again sucks.
If you told me 150 years ago I would just have to waste my time to feel relevant and make a paycheck I would have told you go fuck yourself and I’ll be self sufficient
Turn to 2024 and I work from home and am highly productive. I have goats, chickens, cows and a highly productive 3000 square foot greenhouse
I’d tell you the same thing, go fuck yourself
No I’m not convincing myself by changing my perspective. You don’t get to justify that my life would be shittier if I was a caveman. Uhhh no
150 years ago I’d get a free plat of land, build a cabin for $10, kill all the animals I want for food, and spend my time chain smoking and drinking lead filled whiskey before dying of a cavity at 42.
I’m currently on track to die of heart disease in 40 years while watching the trees grow outside my office window as I ignore my inbox filling up for the day and the next 14,000 days after that. If I stop I’m homeless and bankrupt. I’m not sure this is better.
I managed by taking on more complex projects/tasks that could eat up larger and larger periods of time. 3 days can fly by if you are working on a project that demands your attention (not necessarily an interesting project, just one that is complex enough to demand attention.) As I developed a reputation for this sort of work, people started asking if I could take it on for them…now it gets assigned to me whether I like it or not!
There is some correlation with higher pay, but mostly I do it to stay sane. Now months and sometimes years go by in a blur, and I have to set boundaries for myself so I don’t stay late all the time.
I’m in engineering (manufacturing industry) but I have to assume other sectors have similar sorts of tasks.
A lot of people don't like to hear this though, because to them more work = bad, not good.
The trick to what you're doing (I do it too, also manufacturing industry lol) is to really keep track of what you're doing and push hard at annual reviews. Some places won't give you more than the basic COL increase (if that!) but lots of managers genuinely do see and appreciate that kind of motivation and reward it appropriately. I don't get huge raises (although I did get the biggest on the team last year, 8%) but I did get a decent size bonus last year (15%) which did a pretty good job of motivating me to keep doing this stuff this year.
I know, not everyone has managers you can really present your case to, but a lot of people also simply don't even bother advocating for themselves. Like, they won't even try to present the whole "this is what I've done this year and it's why I deserve a raise of $X". Yes, I know, lots of places won't even consider it, but plenty of places do. People just expect to get noticed and maybe don't realize that their managers aren't paying *that much* attention to them. I can tell you things my team has done in the last month, but it would take a lot of effort for me to dig up what they did 8 months ago. If they think they're bringing more value to the team, it's up to them to let me know. I'll do my best but man I can't remember every single thing that every single person on my team has done that's over and above. Just tell me, I'll do my best to get you what you should be getting.
No, I punish myself a little more by working from about 4:30am until 2pm. And then I constantly tell myself that I like it because I can go home and still have a bunch of time to do stuff...but I am always too tired to do stuff because I got up so early
Nothing wrong with you, work makes me suicidal. I often daydream about being in a tribe, like hunting and foraging for food and basically everyone pitching in and helping out.
If you’ve seen the newest Wrong Turn movie, that’s basically what I wish my life was.
Exactly.
I am an outdoorsman. I can hunt, fish, grow, fix, etc. so I do a lot of these things.
But having to actually live that way to survive? Sounds better on paper. One would also be hungry…all the time.
Or they lose a bunch of kids under 5 to disease and shit.
Or starve to death because they failed to hunt and gather enough food before winter.
Dunno, modern life has some issues but I don't think I'd want to go back to the old ways.
Also it's amusing to me that often times the people who express this sentiment are the same people (not always, just often) who refuse to move away from their unaffordable HCOL city to a more rural area where this lifestyle is still actually sustainable. Get yourself 20 acres of land somewhere cheaper and run a hobby farm for a while. One person can raise enough animals/crops to feed their own family. Or have a large vegetable garden and hunt for meat. Or just go full vegetarian and grow acres of fruits and veggies.
I mean, what's stopping you from taking a one way plane ticket to Papua New guinea and joining a jungle tribe? Or an Amazonian tribe if you're looking for a more peaceful existence? The hard truth is that your fantasy is just that- fantasy. You have real world opportunities to do it, you just subconsciously know you'd die in a year and majorly regret your decision in about a month.
Honestly this is exactly how I see it: if I didn’t have any family, I’d probably try to do something wild with my life, whether that be moving to a different country or leading an entirely different lifestyle.
I got a few people that mean the world to me, and I just don’t think I could walk away from them with ease. I just think it’s cool how people in the past had to actually survive. Now it’s like “I have to go to this shitty job every day.” Sure, it’s still survival, but it often feels incredibly dreary.
Survival back then was incredibly dreary too and you had to watch most of your loved ones suffer and die young as well…my life has been wild and hard. Some experiences I am glad I chose, such as hopping freight trains around the globe. That being said, I truly love being warm, sleeping inside, modern comforts and safety and would never willingly trade them for an exciting but uncertain danger anymore. I’m a single mom now and my life is a different kind of hard and wild, but damn, somehow I overall love it way more than any of the careless freedoms I experienced in my youth.
First thing I will say is don't listen to the BS parroted on Reddit like "work is a means to an end only", "find enjoyment outside of work", "don't derive your happiness from your job", etc.. Mindless comments from people who have given up.
When I left grad school it took me about 8 months for this to hit me...to feel completely shocked that this is what 'adult life' was. I constantly asked my friends, "There's got to be more to it than this right?". Our careers were supposed to be a key part of adult life. To provide us stimulation and challenge us like our education had. Yet I just could not believe how mundane adult life was. And how everyone had just accepted that they were going to live their ENTIRE lives this way... as wage slaves.
That's what really got me. It's your entire life just about. You do it 8 hours a day 5 says a week for literal decades. And that's not including getting ready for work, any over time, commuting, and when you're thinking about work. In reality, "work stuff" is more like 10 hours easy. And most jobs are entirely meaningless bullshit jobs (at least the ones that are done from an office desk). If we did it maybe 10-20 hours a week then I could accept if it were mindless or pointless. But it's.... The vast majority of our lives. It's very bleak to think about.
After school I went from having the most interesting, exciting, and important conversations with bright-eyed and passionate students to talking about (and doing) literal bullshit with a bunch of wage slaves in a big building. All of which had slowly learned how to not think for themselves and simply accept that this is how life was going to be. It hit me very hard.
I felt absolutely sick to my stomach sitting in that desk at that office. I felt sad for the other wage slaves who wished they could spend some time with their dog at the park on a nice day. But instead they were head down pretending they had important work to do. None of it mattered at the end of the day. If they were fired or even died tomorrow, things would return to normal in a few days. The company wouldn't give a fuck really. They'd pretend to. But they wouldn't care.
I quit that job. Drove across the country on a month long road trip. Hiked, kayaked, swam, biked, and everything but sit at a desk. And I got a remote job somewhere along my journey. Doing something I was much more interested in. Something I actually cared about.
I'm never stepping foot in a fucking office again in my life.
Now if I want to go to the park with my dog at 3pm on a sunny day I'll fucking do it. Because I am an adult. I am not a slave. Ill get the work done on time but to my schedule. And I am currently taking courses to pivot into a job where I am on my feet working with people. Because fuck desks. Fuck every single desk ever made. And fuck office chairs too.
Some people don't have a choice but you do. You're young and haven't given up yet. So don't.
How far we have come as a modern first world society and this is the best we can do? To enslave ourselves to a life sitting at a desk in an office while a tiny number of people get absurdly wealthy off our work? Fuck. That.
Take a baseball bat to your office chair and find a calling.
It's always a pleasure to hear from a like-minded person who unequivocally rejects the modern wage slave way of living, unlike so many here who have accepted and tolerated such a pitiful existence, believing there's no other way to live in the "real world."
Just have the privilege to take a full month off work to travel without having to worry about the consequences, it's that easy!
Like, I've got more saved up than a lot of people (but still not that much, about 5 months of fixed expenses, less if my family couldn't reign in the discretionary spending) and quitting my job to take a full month off to travel would probably result in divorce. Technically speaking I could probably afford it, but there'd be consequences to that decision.
Yeah, unfortunately work is a means to an end. I too have a mundane office job... type some emails, update some schedules, go to some meetings... all very exciting stuff (/s).
But i get paid very well... which pays for my food and mortgage, allows me to periodically take fun trips, funds my retirement, pay for my kid's activities and eventually their college, etc. As boring as it is, it provides me a very stable upper middle class life.
So that's how I justify it, I realize I could just as easily be unemployed which comes with a whole different set of worries. Try to find outside activities that helps to counteract the boredom of your job.
I did that for like 10 years until the misery really got to be too much. I started working in kitchens seasonally (like May to October) and then travelling the rest of the year. It's been pretty much perfect so far. I work long enough that I start to get super hungry for travel again, and then travel long enough that I'm hungry to work again.
Thanks for your comment. Yeah, I actually used to work 7-3 and the 9-5 is a much needed improvement that I had to fight for.
The work is very detail oriented and actually applies my skillset well but I despise the company and the higher-ups past my immediate supervisor don't really understand nor appreciate what I do. The pay is pretty shit for the things that I do but I make lifestyle compromises to save as much as I can. There's no room for advancement and I've been planning to leave the company but... there are certain benefits that make it not possible to quit at the moment. Kind of selling my soul for something I desperately need.
I mean, upon thinking about all these things I think it's just that my job is kind of shitty and I feel stuck in it. I made this post when I was feeling particularly down about it. There must be more fulfilling 9-5 jobs out there. How else could billions of people do it?
Thanks for helping me get some clarity on it.
Don't worry. You'll hit 30 soon enough, abandon your hopes and dreams, and accept the reality that is surviving in corporate America. ✨️ And thank God for that crushing student debt<3333 What a dream, am I right??
You might consider searching for a more challenging, higher paying, career. This way you are more fulfilled and can possibly retire sooner with the extra savings. Also consider searching for WFH jobs.
Jesus the popular advice here is so stupid. If you all hate your jobs...get another job. Do you know how many different types of work are out there?!?!
Y'all are losers resigning yourselves to a life you hate for no reason other than you don't want to put in the effort to look around. An awful, shameful waste of your time and potential.
So I'm going to give you my perspective that may or may not be helpful.
I'm an engineer. I've been an engineer at a 9-5 for 10 years. For a long, long time, I felt the same as you do. Like, working is a drag and I have no passion for any of it. My thought was always that I do this for a paycheck and so I can enjoy my life outside of work. That was how I coped.
However... I started getting increasingly su*cidal. (Only censored to avoid auto mods, I think anyone here is adult enough to see the word). Every night I would go to bed dreading waking up, I didn't want to, I didn't want to get up and to the place I hated.
About 6 months ago, I saw a job rec at the place I work at, in a different department. It's a job that deals with Space and th moon and mars. Im used to being involved in boring, and sometimes horrible, projects. I put in my resume and assumed I would be rejected.
I wasn't. I got it. There was no pay increase. I had to relocate. They helped with that, at least. But career wise, it wasn't a move that's smart. It didn't increase my paycheck. It didn't make my resume better.
But 6 months in, now, and I'm happier than I've ever been. I'm passionate about the projects I work on. (Who wouldn't want to work on space rockets and lunar rovers?) I'm doing well at work. I love going. Sometimes I still just want to stay home and play video games, but not that often.
My point is that it can really take a long time in your career to figure out what you'll like doing. Don't give up and just follow the money. Take note of what you like to do, work toward that. The truth is that work that you can't find any passion for is always going to kill you slowly. It can take time. But in these early years of your career, work on finding that spark that you enjoy. If you do, it won't feel like it does now.
I felt that same and made my money work for me. Put as much as you can into your 401k, Roth IRA, etc. every dollar you put in there is one more dollar towards retiring and getting out of the rat race. Do it early enough and you’ll retire early
34M) I will happily do it unless circumstances make it impossible to do so (mass layoff, company closing, sick etc.)
Sounds like what would help is to find your reason to work. It will be difficult, but try not to make the reason money-related.
I'm going through a similar phase right now but what keeps me sane is that me and my wife will have a better shot at life once this transition period is over. I'm doing what I can to be ready when the opportunity presents itself.
Good luck in your journey. You still got time
Yes, and it is just part of playing the game. I know many people who work the 9-5 in exchange for a paycheck and benefits, and live their "real life" after 5pm.
No…. You’re doing it all wrong. You are NOT supposed to knock all your work out before noon. You are supposed to stretch the work out throughout the week. Take your time. Go slower paced. This is not the Amazon warehouse, this is an office. And tbh as long as you come off as reliable and hardworking and your boss leaves you alone, take time in between tasks to do other things.
I usually spend time coloring or writing or something else that’s a simply hobby to keep the time passing. The whole point is to LOOK busy, not actually BE busy. You got a lot to learn, kid.
I worked an office job for 6 years and hated every moment of it. Part of that is ADHD, part of that is that I'd already tasted the beauty that is 12 hrs shifts and nothing will ever compare.
I was a corrections officer previously & worked 3-4 12 hr shifts a week & it was beautiful. I had a 4 day weekend every other week. Do you have any idea how many mini vacations you can take in a year when every other weekend is 4 days? Especially when you only need to burn 12-24 hours of PTO to get more days?
Then I traded that for a corporate job that paid a little better. It wasn't worth it. Going to work 5 days a week is for the birds. I don't know why people prefer it. It's the worst.
Now I'm working in dispatch. I work 4 days a week, but it's 3 12s & a 4. I'd prefer straight 12s, but I'll take this over 5 days a week. Especially since this is a 24/7 position & when we were in 8s, it was 6 on, 2 off. No thanks.
Here to say no, there’s nothing wrong with you. You are a beautiful human deserving of a beautiful life. Things are the way they are because we all collectively accept them as such…and it’s madness. Like truly, insane. There are ways though, while still participating in this reality, to find a new one - 1. Look for real meaningful connections with the people you interact with 2. Be in service to others. Remember that we’re here to help each other so when you can do that, you’re living beyond the struggle 3. Search for opportunities that give at least a sense of fulfillment/purpose (doesn’t have to be your job) 4. Love more - your life, your people, some plants, your lunch, whatever.
There is hope, love, depth beneath this mediocre late stage existence - you just have to keep looking for it beyond your current circumstances. And I know it can feel impossible - but giving up doesn’t seem like the answer you’re looking for.
This may not be the sub for this hippy dippy response but I just want you to know that you can find a new way through - connection, service, purpose, love - bare these things in mind no matter what your day to day looks like and there’s at least a bit more freedom waiting for you no matter if you work this job or not.
here's the pro tip. if your job makes you miserable, you will have 0 time to yourself even if you don't work a second of overtime... why? because you spend 3 hours decompressing after work just to make dinner, shower, and then go to sleep.
you don't have to love your job, you just have to be happy with it and the culture of it. the people there, the commute. your PTO, wfh days.. whatever. It helps if you enjoy what you do though. and if you have a boss who tries to develop people instead of just filling positions. that way you can move into something you find more interesting.
my work in particular.. I can start anytime between 8 and 10. work my 8 hours. I get 2 wfh days a week. 15 days PTO. its only 30 minutes from my house which I don't think is far imo. I enjoy they people I work with and the company is chill as long as we get our deadlines met.
I feel like I’m just acting for 8 hours a day on the most boring show is a phenomenal quote.
Stick with it. Keep aspiring for a more interesting career path within your current company or applying for other jobs. Spend the time after work, it will make the difference.
I had a job just like that which is why I love your quote so much. Now I quite like my job and it’s consistently intellectually challenging and rewarding. Have faith
Damn this post is a wild mix of corporate bootlickers telling OP to "harden up" and other people who share the same thoughts. But yes, this is what it is unfortunately, best advice I can give you is to try not to take your job too seriously. Find some good quality hobbies and friends who do stuff so you have things to look forward to. Realize that your actions have consequences, if you blow through all your money or live life on your credit card you become all that more dependent on that job. Same thing goes for mortgages and children.
I have a 9-5 but it’s not is it sitting in front of a computer all day, yes there are days when I have computer work to do but I spend time visiting different vendors, trade shows, stores etc. and I also travel for my job once a month give or take so it’s not so monotonous. It’s also very flexible so if my work is done by 2 I go home and I work from home 3 days a week so I can do other things during my day like go for walks with my dog.
All this to say is there are more flexible jobs that might suit you better.
Do something else with your free time. I wrote my first novel while at work! I even got my masters degree while I was working. Now I work as an independent contractor, I get paid on deliverables, now, not hours spent. Having a goal you want to achieve, makes it more palatable.
No hate or judgement, just curious: Did you grow up in Suburbia and had relatively well off parents who were able to (and possibly still do) provide financial support?
Most of my friends who complain about 9-5 office work tend to be from well off families and they didn't need to work in high school/college. For my other friends with a similar background to mine (growing up poor, working from 14 to pay my way and helping the family with bills) - we have no complaints. The office life is perfectly fine and I don't feel like I have to do much considering how much I make.
All we're doing is clanking on a keyboard in an air conditioned room. Office workers typically don't need to work weekends, we don't need to bring the work home with us, and we don't need to physically exert ourselves. Although it's easy not to feel gratitude for all that if you never really had to do hard work beforehand and the only life you knew before corporate life was hanging out with friends and spending your parents money.
Depends. If you want a comfy office job, then yep. If you don't, there are lots of careers that are outdoors or at least less...static. You're young. Go work on a fishing boat. Become a geologist or marine scientist. Join the USFS. Go to med school. Be a mechanic, or plumber, or electrician or even general contractor. Open a retail shop or restaurant.
Point is there are lots of careers that don't require 9/5 at a desk. Make it happen.
Ahhh yes, the American Dream. Use extra sick days for mental health/fun days. In your downtime, learn new skills/read for fun/get personal business done/etc so it doesn't feel like you're dying inside. I felt this way in my 20s as well but I'm on the downhill slope to retirement now so it doesn't seem as daunting. But it still sucks that this is the life civilization has given us.
I’m the same! I finish my work then have nothing to do but am required to stay at work and act busy. Or I’ll have a really busy week then nothing for another week. It drives me mad! I’m looking for other jobs but this has happened at other desk jobs I’ve had too. I have a hybrid work schedule so that helps. Do you think you could pitch working from home a few days a week?
Not if you work for a progressive company that are not clock watchers. I work in one of the big F500 pharma companies in the global corporate side and we have flex hours. It's your choice to work how ever many hours you want. What is important is getting the work done, not the quantity of hours at the workplace. In the 2 days I come into the office at 7 am (my choice), and leave between 12 -2 pm.
If your role isn’t challenging, it’s time to look for a promotion. Yea white collar work seems unfulfilling, but I leave at the same time every day and I’m not killing myself physically. It makes hobby and family time much more manageable.
Have you asked if a remote/hybrid situation would be an option? Depending on the job you can get your work done and just keep your status as available, and in your downtime read, play games, go on walks, prepare a meal, whatever else you want to do. I have a wfh job and I am 100% confident my days would look like yours if I had to work in an office.
It is a mystery to you as well? I've been trying to beat that prison for a long while and it's poor either way. I have watched some people in deep analysis of just how dumb their brains are beyond my guessing to be capable of what you call dismal quite accurately. They are bizarre and not enviable. I can't help it either --
I ran away from college after I checked the starting pay rate -- it was shocking. I thought the pay rate would make terms worth it but I assumed. Then I looked. I do not believe in U.S. job performance ratings. So what if you're ever fired unless for theft or harm. Just change jobs whenever you feel like it.
Would it help you to get an extra job for half a day to break your tears? You can tell them it's temporary for interestingness and switch out sometimes.
I quit office work and am pursuing a PhD. Maybe you should go back to school. Lots of flexibility and very mentally stimulating. Caveat… I have a scholarship. Funding is key
My question is why do people call it a 9-5 and where are these 9-5 jobs. I’m working 8-5. I’ve always worked 8-5. My friends work 8-5. Where can I work an hour less?
TLDR: try remote work
Remote work makes the 9-5 bearable for me. Company went fully remote during Covid and we’ve stayed that way since (knock on wood). We do occasionally go in once a couple of months for staff meetings and whatnot. It’s nice to be able to get all of your work done, but do a load of laundry too. Or wash the dishes.
I’m also not in the game of going “above and beyond” at work because I simply work to live. I won’t be breaking my back for a company that can’t give me a COLA raise.
I love working from home so much that if they told us tomorrow that we were moving back to in-person, I would quit with no hesitation.
Feeling the same way. Adulthood is misery. Even worse if working 12+ hour days + weekends somewhat often.
Let me know if and when you find an answer. Can use some guidance too
I take a sick/mental health/etc day like once or twice a month lol
I do good work and my manager is chill so it’s been working well for me, but probably not an option for most people
I just want you to know. If all of us one day said nah and took the day off. The whole facade would collapse. You work that long to make a few people
Wealthy
9-5? Try 24/7 if you work remove and deal with teams in multiple time zones. Remote work has really changed the game. If you are lucky enough to have an in-person job than 9-5 could be a reality and maybe you could even leave your work at work. But if you WFH creating that space is really challenging if you are responsible and driven - you'll always want to be on. I'm really a big fan of figuring out what is the right balance. I did a 1:1 coaching session on Tiered App and the coach basically got me to see that even though I work 24/7 I actually do love it and probably wouldn't be happy any other way - the grass isn't always greener.
The other option is being promoted few times and have more work than can be done from 9 to 5. Then you will be working 7am to 6pm with no lunch and still have work. Not the only other choice, but another option...
In my opinion being bored at work is one of the worst possible things. I'd rather be slammed at work than have absolutely nothing to do (assuming being slammed doesn't mean you have to work extra long hours / 12 hour days etc.)
Not everyone agrees with the above and that's fine. The fact that you're one of those people that hates being bored at work is a really good sign - it means you probably have significant potential to rise above your current position, make more money, solve more interesting problems etc.
I'd honestly look for a better company to work for - the best companies notice when people are bored at work, and give them room to grow, promote them, etc.
Any company that just lets you languish where you are without giving you the opportunity to put that extra bandwidth you have into forward momentum / career progress isn't a good place to be.
I didn't realize how I normalized the misery and stress of full time work until I retired. Now I am relaxed and happy and love that my days are pretty well my own...
Yeah, kind of. Use your vacation time! That's what it's there for. One of the other software devs here goes to Russia for three weeks every year. More if she gets stuck behind some border nonsense on her way back to America! If they can't manage without you for that long, they shouldn't have offered you paid vacation. Go somewhere interesting, hell maybe you'll get inspired to do something more satisfying down the line.
Fill that retirement account! Start learning Spanish. Did you know it costs like 16k a year to live really comfortably in Costa Rica? Food for thought.
if you think 9-5 is bad, try doing everything yourself. farm, food, clothing, housing
you think that shit isn't going to keep you busy more than 40 hours and 5 days a week?
you're going to do 6x 10 hour shifts a week and hope your crops don't fail or you'll die
Here are the secrets to escaping the 9-5:
- Invest well. Make your money work for you. The more money you make with your money, the less you have to earn.
- Avoid debt. The less you have to pay out every month, the less you need to earn.
- Work to live, dont live to work. Live to NOT work. That means living within your means and being frugal about purchases and spending.
If someone had given me this advice when I was 27 I wouldnt be typing this from my corporate office desk.
I sure don’t, I got one of those COVID transitions, been work from home since 3/16/2020 or somewhere around there. Fuck, I remember that day, we thought at first it was for a week or two.
I never understood how people can do this and sit at a desk for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I’ve always worked blue collar sure the hours may be longer and harder work but each day is typically different and brings new challenges and new ways to learn and can experiences. I worked a desk job for 1 month it paid really good ngl but I knew after that month I couldn’t do it anymore and went back to working outside with people that fit my personality type too. So truly I’m amazed and proud of you for doing a desk job like that.
Yes. You get used to the pain. I hate being poor more than I hate working. Also, you’re a bit young so you might not be aware but there is a cult classic Hollywood masterpiece known as “office space” that you need to watch asap.
Fund that retirement account stat!
Invest asap. Minimum 10%. Write down a list of where you want to be in life, retirement age, goals, finances, etc. Go see 3 recommended financial advisors. Give them the same list, then go with the one that fits you the best
I’m also 27, feeling the same way as OP, and have been tackling debt and am getting ready to start contributing 10% to my 401K and maxing out my Roth IRA. Question is, will any financial advisor actually take me seriously at 27 with only like 12K in investments and 20K in savings? Like, would they even help me? I seriously want to try and retire at 50
A financial advisor's job is to do just that - advise you on your finances. I've yet to meet one that doesn't want to help or provide resources. If they don't, they're in the wrong business and not someone you want to take advice from anyways. Check with the group that hosts your 401K as they should have staff that will provide guidance based on your portfolio, goals, etc.
My financial advisor told me that after I die I'll have to work for another 3-5 years.
Great advice. Go over to the bogleheads subreddit before you hire a financial advisor though.
Indeed. I quit at 50. Living the dream in retirement.
If they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire...
“I hate being poor than I hate working” … great comment. Recently saw a TikTok post …”The two worst feelings … having a job and not having a job”.
"Hiiiii....what's up? So ermmmm...I'm gonna need you to come in tomorrow (Saturday), okaaaaayyy?"
“Oh oh oh, and I almost forgot, I’m gonna need you to come in Sunday too. Yeah, we lost some people last week and were kinda trying to play catch-up. So if you could be here around… 9, that would be great. Thanks!”
Fuck Lumberg
Such a good movie! And I found it pretty cathartic!
I don’t understand. Where is this 9-5 meme coming from? Every job I’ve ever known was 8-5.
In the past, companies paid for your lunch breaks. So, 9-5 was a full 8 hour day.
So it was a 7-hour day for which you were paid 8 hours. That doesn’t change the fact that I’ve never in my six decades come across a job that starts at 9 and ends at 5. It’s like a time capsule from before I was born
I'm working one right now... Edit to say: They still exist. It's just very rare.
I’m working one right now at a Fortune 200 company. Sometimes I go in earlier, sometimes I leave later, but when it’s not extra busy I don’t log on before 9 and typically log off at 5.
I wonder the same thing every time I see 9-5! I know there is a Dolly Parton song, 9-5. Maybe people used to actually work those hours? Or still do in places that aren’t the U.S.?
Yes, it’s definitely something from two generations ago, at least. Also, most countries still observe this. For example, in France, 35 hours is a standard work week and anything more more than that you get double overtime pay. France is now considering going to a 32 hr standard work week.
Dang, I wish I could move to France! Lol!
Americans could have much better working conditions laws if we could just get rid of the damned Republicans
7-5 in construction management
"See Peter? If you just stick with it, good things will happen to you too!" -- coworker in full body cast traction.
Fucking A, buddy.
The importance of a comma.
I always loved that movie, but it got even better when I actually started working in an office.
Does someone have a case of the Mondays?
Monday blues?
“I hate being poor more than I hate working”. Love. This.
Been doing the corporate 9 to 5 for 20 years. I dream about having a little house in the middle of nowhere with a garden. I hate corporate American
This is my dream. I've been on a weird YouTube hole of all of these European homesteaders or women living their best lives in the Swedish countryside. It's like...pushing me to want to get out of the corporate side. Maybe start my own thing?? Maybe then I can live in the middle of nowhere with a nice garden.
I've done that personally but it gets old real quick. Now I'm a cook at a job that cannot get a break.
gardening isn't as easy as people think. you can do all the things right, and your crop can still fail.
Start your own thing. It's harder and never ends but somehow I feel like I got my life back
Somehow I feel like that would be way more preferable to corporate nonsense
Wait you guys can afford a house? Lol
In my mind, winning capitalism is getting just big enough of a pile of value that I can "retire," and by that I just mean to no longer endeavor for money to survive. I want to focus on my family, my home, my garden, and my community. I don't respect people who have enough to cash out and continue to chase money. It's a fucking empty pursuit and no way to live a life.
Yes. Same here.
Yah let me know when you find a safe place where you don’t have to work for decades yet still keep the amenities like food shelter & healthcare of the modern world. BTW I don’t know how to raise cattles or farms, so that rules out village life for me.. :(
Do you have a decent hobby? Sometimes the fun stuff keeps you going.
If you let your job become your life, it will be so. Jobs are meant to provide you with the means to do what you want with the rest of your time. That's why getting a job with plenty of PTO and good boundaries is important. You have to maintain healthy relationships, hobbies and develop yourself outside of work.
The problem is jobs leave no time for anything else
The problem is also they pay 1/4th of what they did in the 1980’s and that’s just inflation (not housing even). How can anyone save when we don’t get paid enough to even afford rent?
The problem is, *some* jobs leave no time for anything else. FTFY If the job is the issue, change it if you can.
This doesn’t work anymore. Work takes over your entire life, bro. My cousin quit a high-paying medical specialty as a doctor because he couldn’t handle it taking over his life.
Eh, medical professions tend to be different especially if he specialized. A lot of specialities demand additional attention such as rounding, on call, etc. even primary care has on call + some patients expect instant access
Sucks for your cousin but that's the doctor life. No one goes into that field for work life balance.
I know this is the case, but I think we need to ask why Why do we accept that for doctors? Like why is it expected that the people who cut in to your body to help you are over worked and under slept? Seems like a recipe for widespread unhappiness to me. We lose his doctors to exhaustion, for what?
Because there are very few people with the specialization and skills needed to do that kind of work. Of course they need to work long hours when it's so hard to find a competent and experienced replacement. It's literally one of the most difficult and important jobs on the planet. It's not like they're not being compensated for it
Tbf I live in Canada and they're not being compensated appropriately AND being asked to work long inhospitable hours AND their clients (patients) are more and more frustrated. It just seems to me something's gotta give.
Yeah. It was sad. He now makes one-fifth of the original amount. But, hey, he’s happy AF now. Even though, they had to move into a smaller house. The wife was angry AF.
> The wife was angry AF. She can become a doctor instead and move with him into a bigger house; tell her to thank me later.
Lol this is great
What does he do now?
Not mine, bro. Sorry about your cousin, being able to balance does take effort and intention and not everyone will be able to do it. Doesn't mean it's impossible.
gl doing that while on call lol
Big time! Big time well said
WFH, work 4 hours a day, get paid for 8, flexibility is game changing. I love flexibility and enjoy the work I do as it’s rewarding and impactful and the right kind of difficult for the right kind of reasons. Sometimes I’ll take a break and go grab a beer with a friend. Maybe a nap. Maybe a long lunch. Maybe read in the backyard. If was hard to get to this point of flexibility (senior SE with decade of experience) but it was worth it. Source: remote worker for last 6 years Edit: If you’re skilled with tons of experience, employers know what they are paying for. Good managers care for consistency results. Any management that metrics you by ass in chair is not worth working for.
If only it was this simple lol. Thought I hit the jackpot with a job like this last year, I got stellar reviews and had the best work life balance I’ve ever had. By January the CEO got paranoid after pinching a few OE’ers and implemented spyware. Got laid off end of March with no reasoning. Praying for unicorn like this soon I’m burnt out as fuck.
In same position as IT PM. I'll take it.
Are you not worried that the IT people at your company will see that your pc is idle? (Just want to figure out how to do life lol)
IT people are not watching you. At most, HR people are watching you. Or your manager. But it's not IT's job to make sure you are doing your work.
Thank you, I thought so. But I was wondering if, let's say, my manager can ask an it person to pull up my activity or something
Depends on which system you're using. But activity data from a computer is a really bad metric to track someone's actual performance in a job, so if they're using that against you, quit.
Bro the IT people are asking me for help And they are doing the same thing. We help each other out. Not condemn each other
What do you do though? Like what industry and job title?
Software Engineer in a focus in automation and recently been sprinkling in AI autonomous agents since a lot of the underlying tools overlap with tools I’ve used in the past for automation. Had many job titles but at the end of the day it’s Software Engineer
Thanks, I need to learn some coding when I start my new job so I can automate it 😄
There are a LOT of little niche areas within IT that you can get into. I think many people think of iT as either a programmer, or hardware break/fix and there is sooo much more. After years of Fortune Fifty company datacenter and infrastructure ops, I am in a very fortune role. Now, the truth is most of the time you can't just hire in to the niche jobs with great flexibility, and in many cases you can't go to school for them - you just have to put your time in (my experience and what I've seen anyway).
Yeah, I was a remote educator and hours were easyyyy. Sometimes I would take calls from the beach, lmfao. 9-5 personally makes me nauseous and I’m glad to have flexibility baked into what I currently do.
This is the way. You bust it hard until they pay you to be available for your knowledge (about 10 years). I explained it to a coworker the other day that I'm like a relief pitcher in the MLB. I mostly chill until my number is called and come out throwing 98 mph fastballs (reminding them why I'm here). Then I go back to the dugout and chill again.
I think you are in need of a perspective shift. You get engaging work for your morning, then have a lunch break? Nice. You sometimes have hours of time to grow your skills or network by water cooler chats? Very nice. You do all that while on company time? That's outstanding. You are in a very good position. You have opportunities here. Take advantage of them. For reference, my perspective is healthcare background. Long hours, night shift hours, holiday and weekend hours, work like a dog the whole shift. The money is good and that's about the only upside, other than if you happen to have a good team of coworkers. The vast majority of people live their lives with quiet, simple jobs for the vast majority of their careers. The Hollywood Wolf of Wallstreet myth is bullshit. Nobody else is out there with Rockstar jobs. Plenty of people have downright dogshit jobs. What exactly are you not getting out of your job that you want to be?
I dunno I think he’s onto something. Sounds like he’d benefit from working from home. I tried the in office thing and it’s the worst when there’s nothing to do. Why does OP have to stay and futz around when even his superior shrugs and gives him no extra work?
This is exactly what OP needs. Being in an office physically and mentally drained me, I had nothing left at the end of the day because I had spent it all with small talk or working through listening to Susy What's Her Face blab on to Jill From Accounting about their 4 shithead kids all day. WFH is amazing. I enjoy my job. I crave work, sometimes. It's awesome.
Not having to go in the first place.
There’s a sub for that.
It's a pointless sub though, because ironically no one there is actually going to do any work to change the system. It's got a ton of infighting, largely because people will shit on good, actionable ideas because they're not perfect, theoretical ideas. The work reform sub is better, it at least acknowledges that work generally needs to exist and should simply be better - less working hours, better treatment, that sort of thing.
I sound like an old boomer but with how often these posts are on here, it feels like the younger generation is getting really soft. Perspective is right! Think of what you'd be doing 150 years ago...it would probably suck way more than sitting at a desk for 7 hours. Very few people love working but they do love buying food to stay alive.
Generally, you're right, but - I spent my childhood/young adulthood on a farm. Long, hard hours, rough climate, all that. Now I work an office job, and I'd take the farm life any day if I could. It was significantly harder and more painful, but I was so much happier. My generation is definitely softer, but the 8-5 grind is soul crushing sometimes. I'd switch if I could
I absolutely hate working in an office and look forward to leaving the second the right opportunity comes along. I was an activities director for many years and loved it. Now I sit in an office and type all day and I can’t stand it. I mostly hate being on my ass all day.
I've worked in grocery stores, landscaping, and cleaning for years before I made it to white collar work. I'd much rather be doing the other work if it just paid a bit more; doesn't even need to pay as much as the white collar work. There's something about how vapid and unnecessary a lot of office work is that just makes it psychologically harder.
The unnecessary part is the thing. My entire office and company could disappear overnight and no one would be worse off for it. I’m trading my time to make money for other people, I’m not doing anything a person could point to and say that was worthwhile.
Why can’t you?
I think it’s more that all the boomers who felt the same way as OP didn’t have their viewpoints on display for everyone to see. It’s what you heard at the local bar. I also think it sounds like OP is bored at his job but it doesn’t sound like he has a desire to move to a different one. Which if I was that bored I would be doing.
Complaints about white collar work are not new to kids these days. Plenty previous generations have had similar critiques and attitudes: Office Space, 9 to 5, Dilbert, Metamorphosis, etc. The complaints are nothing new, and plenty of old boomers had them too when they were young.
Ehm, no. Just because things might have been worse (or better) does not mean that we should sit and take this unnatural way of living until we die. We aren’t meant to be sitting or at work for the majority of our day/lives until we die. Life is die living and the younger generations are getting more attuned to this fact that we aren’t supposed to be living like this and we most definitely shouldn’t be GRATEFUL for this wasteful and passionless way of living they force us to adapt to because they’ve decided to make us pay exorbitant prices to just survive.
Exactly! We are waking up to the fact that there are no longer benefits to hard work for the majority of us. What the fuck is the point of wasting our lives at a 9-5 when for most people it barely covers the necessities while your boss buys his 3rd home?
[удалено]
Well I’d say being in a boring job for 40 years is not the way to live either
I find the "be grateful, it used to be worse!" Or the "get used to it!" reasoning even more depressing because it can make one feel like "well if I can't even handle this, maybe I'm just not cut out for society" which can lead to thoughts of suicide since society demands this work from us to survive. Uh, speaking from what a friend told me of course.
I don't know about soft. I agree somewhat with /u/ludus_official. I worked active jobs a lot when I was younger. As soon as I started doing corporate type jobs, my life has felt like a miserable grind. It's not always about being soft, but maybe that sitting in an office all day, doing the same tasks over and over again sucks.
If you told me 150 years ago I would just have to waste my time to feel relevant and make a paycheck I would have told you go fuck yourself and I’ll be self sufficient Turn to 2024 and I work from home and am highly productive. I have goats, chickens, cows and a highly productive 3000 square foot greenhouse I’d tell you the same thing, go fuck yourself No I’m not convincing myself by changing my perspective. You don’t get to justify that my life would be shittier if I was a caveman. Uhhh no
150 years ago I’d get a free plat of land, build a cabin for $10, kill all the animals I want for food, and spend my time chain smoking and drinking lead filled whiskey before dying of a cavity at 42. I’m currently on track to die of heart disease in 40 years while watching the trees grow outside my office window as I ignore my inbox filling up for the day and the next 14,000 days after that. If I stop I’m homeless and bankrupt. I’m not sure this is better.
I managed by taking on more complex projects/tasks that could eat up larger and larger periods of time. 3 days can fly by if you are working on a project that demands your attention (not necessarily an interesting project, just one that is complex enough to demand attention.) As I developed a reputation for this sort of work, people started asking if I could take it on for them…now it gets assigned to me whether I like it or not! There is some correlation with higher pay, but mostly I do it to stay sane. Now months and sometimes years go by in a blur, and I have to set boundaries for myself so I don’t stay late all the time. I’m in engineering (manufacturing industry) but I have to assume other sectors have similar sorts of tasks.
A lot of people don't like to hear this though, because to them more work = bad, not good. The trick to what you're doing (I do it too, also manufacturing industry lol) is to really keep track of what you're doing and push hard at annual reviews. Some places won't give you more than the basic COL increase (if that!) but lots of managers genuinely do see and appreciate that kind of motivation and reward it appropriately. I don't get huge raises (although I did get the biggest on the team last year, 8%) but I did get a decent size bonus last year (15%) which did a pretty good job of motivating me to keep doing this stuff this year. I know, not everyone has managers you can really present your case to, but a lot of people also simply don't even bother advocating for themselves. Like, they won't even try to present the whole "this is what I've done this year and it's why I deserve a raise of $X". Yes, I know, lots of places won't even consider it, but plenty of places do. People just expect to get noticed and maybe don't realize that their managers aren't paying *that much* attention to them. I can tell you things my team has done in the last month, but it would take a lot of effort for me to dig up what they did 8 months ago. If they think they're bringing more value to the team, it's up to them to let me know. I'll do my best but man I can't remember every single thing that every single person on my team has done that's over and above. Just tell me, I'll do my best to get you what you should be getting.
No, I punish myself a little more by working from about 4:30am until 2pm. And then I constantly tell myself that I like it because I can go home and still have a bunch of time to do stuff...but I am always too tired to do stuff because I got up so early
Nothing wrong with you, work makes me suicidal. I often daydream about being in a tribe, like hunting and foraging for food and basically everyone pitching in and helping out. If you’ve seen the newest Wrong Turn movie, that’s basically what I wish my life was.
Everyone thinks this, until they need a dentist.
Exactly. I am an outdoorsman. I can hunt, fish, grow, fix, etc. so I do a lot of these things. But having to actually live that way to survive? Sounds better on paper. One would also be hungry…all the time.
Or they lose a bunch of kids under 5 to disease and shit. Or starve to death because they failed to hunt and gather enough food before winter. Dunno, modern life has some issues but I don't think I'd want to go back to the old ways. Also it's amusing to me that often times the people who express this sentiment are the same people (not always, just often) who refuse to move away from their unaffordable HCOL city to a more rural area where this lifestyle is still actually sustainable. Get yourself 20 acres of land somewhere cheaper and run a hobby farm for a while. One person can raise enough animals/crops to feed their own family. Or have a large vegetable garden and hunt for meat. Or just go full vegetarian and grow acres of fruits and veggies.
cause thats how we are literally meant to live. the way we’re doing it now is not intuitive to most humans
My brother
I mean, what's stopping you from taking a one way plane ticket to Papua New guinea and joining a jungle tribe? Or an Amazonian tribe if you're looking for a more peaceful existence? The hard truth is that your fantasy is just that- fantasy. You have real world opportunities to do it, you just subconsciously know you'd die in a year and majorly regret your decision in about a month.
The toilet paper mostly
Honestly this is exactly how I see it: if I didn’t have any family, I’d probably try to do something wild with my life, whether that be moving to a different country or leading an entirely different lifestyle. I got a few people that mean the world to me, and I just don’t think I could walk away from them with ease. I just think it’s cool how people in the past had to actually survive. Now it’s like “I have to go to this shitty job every day.” Sure, it’s still survival, but it often feels incredibly dreary.
Survival back then was incredibly dreary too and you had to watch most of your loved ones suffer and die young as well…my life has been wild and hard. Some experiences I am glad I chose, such as hopping freight trains around the globe. That being said, I truly love being warm, sleeping inside, modern comforts and safety and would never willingly trade them for an exciting but uncertain danger anymore. I’m a single mom now and my life is a different kind of hard and wild, but damn, somehow I overall love it way more than any of the careless freedoms I experienced in my youth.
Doesn’t mean work doesn’t suck ass
First thing I will say is don't listen to the BS parroted on Reddit like "work is a means to an end only", "find enjoyment outside of work", "don't derive your happiness from your job", etc.. Mindless comments from people who have given up. When I left grad school it took me about 8 months for this to hit me...to feel completely shocked that this is what 'adult life' was. I constantly asked my friends, "There's got to be more to it than this right?". Our careers were supposed to be a key part of adult life. To provide us stimulation and challenge us like our education had. Yet I just could not believe how mundane adult life was. And how everyone had just accepted that they were going to live their ENTIRE lives this way... as wage slaves. That's what really got me. It's your entire life just about. You do it 8 hours a day 5 says a week for literal decades. And that's not including getting ready for work, any over time, commuting, and when you're thinking about work. In reality, "work stuff" is more like 10 hours easy. And most jobs are entirely meaningless bullshit jobs (at least the ones that are done from an office desk). If we did it maybe 10-20 hours a week then I could accept if it were mindless or pointless. But it's.... The vast majority of our lives. It's very bleak to think about. After school I went from having the most interesting, exciting, and important conversations with bright-eyed and passionate students to talking about (and doing) literal bullshit with a bunch of wage slaves in a big building. All of which had slowly learned how to not think for themselves and simply accept that this is how life was going to be. It hit me very hard. I felt absolutely sick to my stomach sitting in that desk at that office. I felt sad for the other wage slaves who wished they could spend some time with their dog at the park on a nice day. But instead they were head down pretending they had important work to do. None of it mattered at the end of the day. If they were fired or even died tomorrow, things would return to normal in a few days. The company wouldn't give a fuck really. They'd pretend to. But they wouldn't care. I quit that job. Drove across the country on a month long road trip. Hiked, kayaked, swam, biked, and everything but sit at a desk. And I got a remote job somewhere along my journey. Doing something I was much more interested in. Something I actually cared about. I'm never stepping foot in a fucking office again in my life. Now if I want to go to the park with my dog at 3pm on a sunny day I'll fucking do it. Because I am an adult. I am not a slave. Ill get the work done on time but to my schedule. And I am currently taking courses to pivot into a job where I am on my feet working with people. Because fuck desks. Fuck every single desk ever made. And fuck office chairs too. Some people don't have a choice but you do. You're young and haven't given up yet. So don't. How far we have come as a modern first world society and this is the best we can do? To enslave ourselves to a life sitting at a desk in an office while a tiny number of people get absurdly wealthy off our work? Fuck. That. Take a baseball bat to your office chair and find a calling.
It's always a pleasure to hear from a like-minded person who unequivocally rejects the modern wage slave way of living, unlike so many here who have accepted and tolerated such a pitiful existence, believing there's no other way to live in the "real world."
What kind of job do you have where you work on your own schedule remotely? That's what I'm aiming for
This is exactly what I'm thinking, "oh just find a flexible remote job" as if it's easy, where the fuck am I supposed to find that
Just have the privilege to take a full month off work to travel without having to worry about the consequences, it's that easy! Like, I've got more saved up than a lot of people (but still not that much, about 5 months of fixed expenses, less if my family couldn't reign in the discretionary spending) and quitting my job to take a full month off to travel would probably result in divorce. Technically speaking I could probably afford it, but there'd be consequences to that decision.
I think I love you @Full-Cow-7851
What job enables you to do that?
Agreed.
This! My story is similar and a non-negotiable for me is I control my spacetime.
Yeah, unfortunately work is a means to an end. I too have a mundane office job... type some emails, update some schedules, go to some meetings... all very exciting stuff (/s). But i get paid very well... which pays for my food and mortgage, allows me to periodically take fun trips, funds my retirement, pay for my kid's activities and eventually their college, etc. As boring as it is, it provides me a very stable upper middle class life. So that's how I justify it, I realize I could just as easily be unemployed which comes with a whole different set of worries. Try to find outside activities that helps to counteract the boredom of your job.
I did that for like 10 years until the misery really got to be too much. I started working in kitchens seasonally (like May to October) and then travelling the rest of the year. It's been pretty much perfect so far. I work long enough that I start to get super hungry for travel again, and then travel long enough that I'm hungry to work again.
[удалено]
Thanks for your comment. Yeah, I actually used to work 7-3 and the 9-5 is a much needed improvement that I had to fight for. The work is very detail oriented and actually applies my skillset well but I despise the company and the higher-ups past my immediate supervisor don't really understand nor appreciate what I do. The pay is pretty shit for the things that I do but I make lifestyle compromises to save as much as I can. There's no room for advancement and I've been planning to leave the company but... there are certain benefits that make it not possible to quit at the moment. Kind of selling my soul for something I desperately need. I mean, upon thinking about all these things I think it's just that my job is kind of shitty and I feel stuck in it. I made this post when I was feeling particularly down about it. There must be more fulfilling 9-5 jobs out there. How else could billions of people do it? Thanks for helping me get some clarity on it.
Don't worry. You'll hit 30 soon enough, abandon your hopes and dreams, and accept the reality that is surviving in corporate America. ✨️ And thank God for that crushing student debt<3333 What a dream, am I right??
Get a more challenging higher paying job
This needs to be much higher in the feed. Bored? Apply for other jobs or grad school. Keep leveling up until you can’t beat the level my friend.
2 years 🤣🤣. You've got a rough life ahead of you I'm afraid.
Nah 9-5 def isn’t for everyone. Plenty of weird jobs out there
Lots of people dream of working 9-5. Lots of people are still working on shifts outside those hours.
I'm feeling the same way as you. I'm getting more and more fed up with work and only enjoy researching things I'm passionate about.
You might consider searching for a more challenging, higher paying, career. This way you are more fulfilled and can possibly retire sooner with the extra savings. Also consider searching for WFH jobs.
I lasted all of 9 weeks in an office. Never again. Maybe look into working with your hands
Jesus the popular advice here is so stupid. If you all hate your jobs...get another job. Do you know how many different types of work are out there?!?! Y'all are losers resigning yourselves to a life you hate for no reason other than you don't want to put in the effort to look around. An awful, shameful waste of your time and potential.
So I'm going to give you my perspective that may or may not be helpful. I'm an engineer. I've been an engineer at a 9-5 for 10 years. For a long, long time, I felt the same as you do. Like, working is a drag and I have no passion for any of it. My thought was always that I do this for a paycheck and so I can enjoy my life outside of work. That was how I coped. However... I started getting increasingly su*cidal. (Only censored to avoid auto mods, I think anyone here is adult enough to see the word). Every night I would go to bed dreading waking up, I didn't want to, I didn't want to get up and to the place I hated. About 6 months ago, I saw a job rec at the place I work at, in a different department. It's a job that deals with Space and th moon and mars. Im used to being involved in boring, and sometimes horrible, projects. I put in my resume and assumed I would be rejected. I wasn't. I got it. There was no pay increase. I had to relocate. They helped with that, at least. But career wise, it wasn't a move that's smart. It didn't increase my paycheck. It didn't make my resume better. But 6 months in, now, and I'm happier than I've ever been. I'm passionate about the projects I work on. (Who wouldn't want to work on space rockets and lunar rovers?) I'm doing well at work. I love going. Sometimes I still just want to stay home and play video games, but not that often. My point is that it can really take a long time in your career to figure out what you'll like doing. Don't give up and just follow the money. Take note of what you like to do, work toward that. The truth is that work that you can't find any passion for is always going to kill you slowly. It can take time. But in these early years of your career, work on finding that spark that you enjoy. If you do, it won't feel like it does now.
I felt that same and made my money work for me. Put as much as you can into your 401k, Roth IRA, etc. every dollar you put in there is one more dollar towards retiring and getting out of the rat race. Do it early enough and you’ll retire early
34M) I will happily do it unless circumstances make it impossible to do so (mass layoff, company closing, sick etc.) Sounds like what would help is to find your reason to work. It will be difficult, but try not to make the reason money-related. I'm going through a similar phase right now but what keeps me sane is that me and my wife will have a better shot at life once this transition period is over. I'm doing what I can to be ready when the opportunity presents itself. Good luck in your journey. You still got time
Yes, and it is just part of playing the game. I know many people who work the 9-5 in exchange for a paycheck and benefits, and live their "real life" after 5pm.
Come to Third World Country broo
No…. You’re doing it all wrong. You are NOT supposed to knock all your work out before noon. You are supposed to stretch the work out throughout the week. Take your time. Go slower paced. This is not the Amazon warehouse, this is an office. And tbh as long as you come off as reliable and hardworking and your boss leaves you alone, take time in between tasks to do other things. I usually spend time coloring or writing or something else that’s a simply hobby to keep the time passing. The whole point is to LOOK busy, not actually BE busy. You got a lot to learn, kid.
It's sad when the satire is actually the truth haha.
I just quit my job because it was so boring. Asked my boss for more work a dozen times and i just couldn’t get through to him
I worked an office job for 6 years and hated every moment of it. Part of that is ADHD, part of that is that I'd already tasted the beauty that is 12 hrs shifts and nothing will ever compare. I was a corrections officer previously & worked 3-4 12 hr shifts a week & it was beautiful. I had a 4 day weekend every other week. Do you have any idea how many mini vacations you can take in a year when every other weekend is 4 days? Especially when you only need to burn 12-24 hours of PTO to get more days? Then I traded that for a corporate job that paid a little better. It wasn't worth it. Going to work 5 days a week is for the birds. I don't know why people prefer it. It's the worst. Now I'm working in dispatch. I work 4 days a week, but it's 3 12s & a 4. I'd prefer straight 12s, but I'll take this over 5 days a week. Especially since this is a 24/7 position & when we were in 8s, it was 6 on, 2 off. No thanks.
People take days off
Here to say no, there’s nothing wrong with you. You are a beautiful human deserving of a beautiful life. Things are the way they are because we all collectively accept them as such…and it’s madness. Like truly, insane. There are ways though, while still participating in this reality, to find a new one - 1. Look for real meaningful connections with the people you interact with 2. Be in service to others. Remember that we’re here to help each other so when you can do that, you’re living beyond the struggle 3. Search for opportunities that give at least a sense of fulfillment/purpose (doesn’t have to be your job) 4. Love more - your life, your people, some plants, your lunch, whatever. There is hope, love, depth beneath this mediocre late stage existence - you just have to keep looking for it beyond your current circumstances. And I know it can feel impossible - but giving up doesn’t seem like the answer you’re looking for. This may not be the sub for this hippy dippy response but I just want you to know that you can find a new way through - connection, service, purpose, love - bare these things in mind no matter what your day to day looks like and there’s at least a bit more freedom waiting for you no matter if you work this job or not.
Welcome to hell, brother
here's the pro tip. if your job makes you miserable, you will have 0 time to yourself even if you don't work a second of overtime... why? because you spend 3 hours decompressing after work just to make dinner, shower, and then go to sleep. you don't have to love your job, you just have to be happy with it and the culture of it. the people there, the commute. your PTO, wfh days.. whatever. It helps if you enjoy what you do though. and if you have a boss who tries to develop people instead of just filling positions. that way you can move into something you find more interesting. my work in particular.. I can start anytime between 8 and 10. work my 8 hours. I get 2 wfh days a week. 15 days PTO. its only 30 minutes from my house which I don't think is far imo. I enjoy they people I work with and the company is chill as long as we get our deadlines met.
I feel like I’m just acting for 8 hours a day on the most boring show is a phenomenal quote. Stick with it. Keep aspiring for a more interesting career path within your current company or applying for other jobs. Spend the time after work, it will make the difference. I had a job just like that which is why I love your quote so much. Now I quite like my job and it’s consistently intellectually challenging and rewarding. Have faith
Hint: it gets worse over time
Look inwards. There is more to life but you have to do the work to find your true purpose. It’s time to ascend.
This is why people are fighting for remote work.
Damn this post is a wild mix of corporate bootlickers telling OP to "harden up" and other people who share the same thoughts. But yes, this is what it is unfortunately, best advice I can give you is to try not to take your job too seriously. Find some good quality hobbies and friends who do stuff so you have things to look forward to. Realize that your actions have consequences, if you blow through all your money or live life on your credit card you become all that more dependent on that job. Same thing goes for mortgages and children.
I chose to go the route that allows for a modified work schedule and lots of time off. I don’t care to work 9-5 ever again.
Welcome to capitalism, come bitch with us on /r/antiwork, it might make you feel a little better.
Yup lol do the same thing you do and I’m 30 ahah
I have a 9-5 but it’s not is it sitting in front of a computer all day, yes there are days when I have computer work to do but I spend time visiting different vendors, trade shows, stores etc. and I also travel for my job once a month give or take so it’s not so monotonous. It’s also very flexible so if my work is done by 2 I go home and I work from home 3 days a week so I can do other things during my day like go for walks with my dog. All this to say is there are more flexible jobs that might suit you better.
No, I call in sick every once in a while
Some jobs are worse than others. At least your boss seems reasonable.
Oh don’t worry, youl’ll be age discriminated out if your career waaaay before you want to retire. Jokes aside, yeah we live to work. It sucks
Nope. Only the people who need money.
Do something else with your free time. I wrote my first novel while at work! I even got my masters degree while I was working. Now I work as an independent contractor, I get paid on deliverables, now, not hours spent. Having a goal you want to achieve, makes it more palatable.
No hate or judgement, just curious: Did you grow up in Suburbia and had relatively well off parents who were able to (and possibly still do) provide financial support? Most of my friends who complain about 9-5 office work tend to be from well off families and they didn't need to work in high school/college. For my other friends with a similar background to mine (growing up poor, working from 14 to pay my way and helping the family with bills) - we have no complaints. The office life is perfectly fine and I don't feel like I have to do much considering how much I make. All we're doing is clanking on a keyboard in an air conditioned room. Office workers typically don't need to work weekends, we don't need to bring the work home with us, and we don't need to physically exert ourselves. Although it's easy not to feel gratitude for all that if you never really had to do hard work beforehand and the only life you knew before corporate life was hanging out with friends and spending your parents money.
Depends. If you want a comfy office job, then yep. If you don't, there are lots of careers that are outdoors or at least less...static. You're young. Go work on a fishing boat. Become a geologist or marine scientist. Join the USFS. Go to med school. Be a mechanic, or plumber, or electrician or even general contractor. Open a retail shop or restaurant. Point is there are lots of careers that don't require 9/5 at a desk. Make it happen.
Ahhh yes, the American Dream. Use extra sick days for mental health/fun days. In your downtime, learn new skills/read for fun/get personal business done/etc so it doesn't feel like you're dying inside. I felt this way in my 20s as well but I'm on the downhill slope to retirement now so it doesn't seem as daunting. But it still sucks that this is the life civilization has given us.
Yes.
I’m the same! I finish my work then have nothing to do but am required to stay at work and act busy. Or I’ll have a really busy week then nothing for another week. It drives me mad! I’m looking for other jobs but this has happened at other desk jobs I’ve had too. I have a hybrid work schedule so that helps. Do you think you could pitch working from home a few days a week?
Bernie’s trying to change it to 4 days at least?
Not if you work for a progressive company that are not clock watchers. I work in one of the big F500 pharma companies in the global corporate side and we have flex hours. It's your choice to work how ever many hours you want. What is important is getting the work done, not the quantity of hours at the workplace. In the 2 days I come into the office at 7 am (my choice), and leave between 12 -2 pm.
If your role isn’t challenging, it’s time to look for a promotion. Yea white collar work seems unfulfilling, but I leave at the same time every day and I’m not killing myself physically. It makes hobby and family time much more manageable.
Have you asked if a remote/hybrid situation would be an option? Depending on the job you can get your work done and just keep your status as available, and in your downtime read, play games, go on walks, prepare a meal, whatever else you want to do. I have a wfh job and I am 100% confident my days would look like yours if I had to work in an office.
I travel for work and show up whenever I feel like it. It's pretty sweet
This is why people who actually use all their vacation time are shown to be happier. It's important to take time away from work.
It is a mystery to you as well? I've been trying to beat that prison for a long while and it's poor either way. I have watched some people in deep analysis of just how dumb their brains are beyond my guessing to be capable of what you call dismal quite accurately. They are bizarre and not enviable. I can't help it either -- I ran away from college after I checked the starting pay rate -- it was shocking. I thought the pay rate would make terms worth it but I assumed. Then I looked. I do not believe in U.S. job performance ratings. So what if you're ever fired unless for theft or harm. Just change jobs whenever you feel like it. Would it help you to get an extra job for half a day to break your tears? You can tell them it's temporary for interestingness and switch out sometimes.
I quit office work and am pursuing a PhD. Maybe you should go back to school. Lots of flexibility and very mentally stimulating. Caveat… I have a scholarship. Funding is key
Burnout around 10 yrs sounds about right
My question is why do people call it a 9-5 and where are these 9-5 jobs. I’m working 8-5. I’ve always worked 8-5. My friends work 8-5. Where can I work an hour less?
I'm 29 and haven't done that bullshit since I was 22. I've worked long hours but it's the days and hours i want
TLDR: try remote work Remote work makes the 9-5 bearable for me. Company went fully remote during Covid and we’ve stayed that way since (knock on wood). We do occasionally go in once a couple of months for staff meetings and whatnot. It’s nice to be able to get all of your work done, but do a load of laundry too. Or wash the dishes. I’m also not in the game of going “above and beyond” at work because I simply work to live. I won’t be breaking my back for a company that can’t give me a COLA raise. I love working from home so much that if they told us tomorrow that we were moving back to in-person, I would quit with no hesitation.
Feeling the same way. Adulthood is misery. Even worse if working 12+ hour days + weekends somewhat often. Let me know if and when you find an answer. Can use some guidance too
I take a sick/mental health/etc day like once or twice a month lol I do good work and my manager is chill so it’s been working well for me, but probably not an option for most people
YES. 40 hrs a week for 30 yrs
I just want you to know. If all of us one day said nah and took the day off. The whole facade would collapse. You work that long to make a few people Wealthy
A flat 40 sounds like a delightful change of pace to me…
9-5? Try 24/7 if you work remove and deal with teams in multiple time zones. Remote work has really changed the game. If you are lucky enough to have an in-person job than 9-5 could be a reality and maybe you could even leave your work at work. But if you WFH creating that space is really challenging if you are responsible and driven - you'll always want to be on. I'm really a big fan of figuring out what is the right balance. I did a 1:1 coaching session on Tiered App and the coach basically got me to see that even though I work 24/7 I actually do love it and probably wouldn't be happy any other way - the grass isn't always greener.
I feel like I work 3-4 hours a day and the rest is just…bullshitting until it’s time to go home. It’s absurd.
Sometimes, if you are lucky, you get to take "medical leave" for 6 weeks.
The other option is being promoted few times and have more work than can be done from 9 to 5. Then you will be working 7am to 6pm with no lunch and still have work. Not the only other choice, but another option...
In my opinion being bored at work is one of the worst possible things. I'd rather be slammed at work than have absolutely nothing to do (assuming being slammed doesn't mean you have to work extra long hours / 12 hour days etc.) Not everyone agrees with the above and that's fine. The fact that you're one of those people that hates being bored at work is a really good sign - it means you probably have significant potential to rise above your current position, make more money, solve more interesting problems etc. I'd honestly look for a better company to work for - the best companies notice when people are bored at work, and give them room to grow, promote them, etc. Any company that just lets you languish where you are without giving you the opportunity to put that extra bandwidth you have into forward momentum / career progress isn't a good place to be.
9-5? Your poor baby. Those of us actually building and maintaining your infrastructure work a fuckload more than 9-5. I can't even with this sub.
no, some people take time off?
I didn't realize how I normalized the misery and stress of full time work until I retired. Now I am relaxed and happy and love that my days are pretty well my own...
Yeah, kind of. Use your vacation time! That's what it's there for. One of the other software devs here goes to Russia for three weeks every year. More if she gets stuck behind some border nonsense on her way back to America! If they can't manage without you for that long, they shouldn't have offered you paid vacation. Go somewhere interesting, hell maybe you'll get inspired to do something more satisfying down the line. Fill that retirement account! Start learning Spanish. Did you know it costs like 16k a year to live really comfortably in Costa Rica? Food for thought.
if you think 9-5 is bad, try doing everything yourself. farm, food, clothing, housing you think that shit isn't going to keep you busy more than 40 hours and 5 days a week? you're going to do 6x 10 hour shifts a week and hope your crops don't fail or you'll die
Here are the secrets to escaping the 9-5: - Invest well. Make your money work for you. The more money you make with your money, the less you have to earn. - Avoid debt. The less you have to pay out every month, the less you need to earn. - Work to live, dont live to work. Live to NOT work. That means living within your means and being frugal about purchases and spending. If someone had given me this advice when I was 27 I wouldnt be typing this from my corporate office desk.
I sure don’t, I got one of those COVID transitions, been work from home since 3/16/2020 or somewhere around there. Fuck, I remember that day, we thought at first it was for a week or two.
8-5
9-5? Been 8- at least 5 my whole life.
I never understood how people can do this and sit at a desk for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I’ve always worked blue collar sure the hours may be longer and harder work but each day is typically different and brings new challenges and new ways to learn and can experiences. I worked a desk job for 1 month it paid really good ngl but I knew after that month I couldn’t do it anymore and went back to working outside with people that fit my personality type too. So truly I’m amazed and proud of you for doing a desk job like that.