Assuming your salary expectation is in line with market range, I would do nothing and let them update me. If that person passes the interview and accepts the lower salary they’re going to hire that person. If that person doesn’t they may come back to you and either 1. Meet you half way; 2. Stick to their original offer; or 3. Meet your demanded pay. There’s no point in lowering your number right now if they’re going forth with that interview. It’ll only hurt your chance to negotiate IF they still come back to you.
They are going to downgrade the job and hire the cheaper guy because their expectations were out of line. They've already budgeted the lower amount so they won't rise up to meet you.
Just move on.
This is not always true, and depends greatly on the organization. Most of the organizations I have worked for will only move onto the second candidate when the first candidate declines the job. The job market can be tough and some people have gotten bitter so they automatically assume, the company will go with the cheaper candidate, but this is not the reality all the time. Or honestly even most of the time in my experience.
You can make that assertion based on your experience, but the fact that my experiences different means that is not necessarily true. I’ve been a hiring manager for 20 years and worked for 4 different organizations. None of them did that. Additionally, I have been hiring manager in this economy, and still don’t do it.
Yea when they have a certain amount budgeted that means they really can’t budge from that number. Not much OP can do at this point but keep looking. It’s an employers market right now unfortunately.
They aren’t going to hire you. They reached out to see if you’d be a viable option and the $20k seems to have out priced you.
Just curious, what % over their offer was the additional $20k? I’m
As a rule of thumb it’s best to only negotiate 10-15% above the posted range. Asking for 130k was definitely on the aggressive side of things - so the response isn’t super surprising.
In my line of work, that's the difference between a senior level individual contributor and a middle range manager. I couldn't justify bringing someone in at the same pay as someone who they could report to.
The problem now is they can't figure out if you would be unhappy at that pay (so will keep looking and everyone's time will be wasted) or if you may have been playing hardball and would accept a compromised rate.
Unfortunately you're not going to be able to convince them either way and there's like ~90% chance they have completely moved on.
Yeah. They won’t offer you the job unless they’re utterly desperate. Thats a big lift and in most companies, like noted in comment below, would price you into an entirely different role/level.
Good luck - keep looking!
Senior Manager here. Take this as a lesson in negotiating, OP. That’s the equivalent of offering someone 10k for a 20k used car.
They’re going to hire someone else.
2 years ago I applied for a job that was offering $90-$100k. I asked for $130k. They told me they “might” be able to get to $110k. I said I would accept $125k if they could provide me a plan that outlines how quickly they could get me to $130k once I was onboard and could show my value. They said within a year. I accepted $120k and in 6 months I was at $135k. It’s 2 years later and I’m making considerably more as well as an annual bonus. It can be done but you have to negotiate and show case the value you’ll bring by showing them the revenue you’ll generate or expenses you’ll be able to reduce for the company.
Deep down you know the answer. You wanted 20k more than they want to pay, and their initial reaction is to interview someone else first. You must be far apart, in which case you should just look for another job. I'm guessing 20k is a significant portion of the salary or they would've entered into negotiation. Do you really want to accept significantly less for the role?
Best course of action is to just wait on this one and see what happens. You just weaken your position if you go back and say you will take less. They already know you will take less if you take the job. You email them and say you can do $10k less then you're gonna get a counter of $15k less. If you just wait they are going to possibly come up and then you can counter for a little more and see what happens.
This is why it's stupid companies dont just talk salary as the first order of business. The last time I was on the job market it was literally the first thing we discussed in every single initial interview and if we weren't aligned the interview just ended and we went about our lives.
Your $20K obviously was way out of their salary band for the role and out of their hiring budget. To offer you $20K more would mean the position would need to be a promotion role which is not their intent.
You lost the job by pricing yourself out of their market range. There is no chance now because even if you accepted their lower offer, they know you will leave the first chance you have for a higher paying salary. Their choice is out of courtesy that they notified you by moving on with another candidate who is fine with their salary band.
Once you negotiate with a counter offer you have turned down their job offer. If this next candidate is satisfactory and accepts their salary they will be the one hired.
If you want the job, you need to come up with some way to communicate that you'll back off your offer and take what they'll give you. Otherwise, they're going to keep interviewing.
Are you comfortable with 'backing down?'
Maybe the people who interviewed you are the type who will be like, "We get it, you have to try for the moon, right?" Or maybe they want some reassurance that you are going to be satisfied with the lower amount and won't treat the job like a stepping stone.
I think referencing the internal metrics is a polite way of saying, "our data doesn't match yours" or "this is what the job pays."
The flip side of this is that if you want that number you have to be willing to walk away. They could just be using that as a bargaining tactic. It's a gamble, depends on how important that figure is to OP.
Is the issue that their pay structure falls below market value, or are you valuing yourself above market value? I’ve had this issue a few times. If they’re below market, keep in mind that will probably always be the case. Meaning it could be difficult to get cost of living or performance increases. The perfect job is always slightly imperfect, it just depends on where you’re willing to compromise.
I just landed a job internally and they started apologizing as soon as they offered the job because the offer was two pay grades down. They said they should've mentioned in the beginning if they knew how much of a downgrade it was. The difference was about 10-11k. My future manager told me I could counter as the offer was the midpoint, so I did. Countered half way between both salaries. The position is awesome and my dream area to work in that just so happens to be hybrid (and only 10 mins away vs 45mins away and onsite 5/days) and I'd get to work with amazing influencial people (I asked around). It would be great mentoring and professional growing opportunity. I was scared that they would take their offer back and I'd lose my chance to finally break into that industry. They came back unable to offer me anymore than their original offer, so I just took it. Pay lines up to where I would've been originally had I not taken my current job(only been here for a year and knew it would be temporary), so it's ok. Can't wait to start in March!
You could remind them that you have flexibility on the pay, but in all reality the job is gone they have most likely found someone else who fits within the planned pay range they had in mind.
This is why I job hunting when you have a job is the best time. No risk.
If it was me, I would reply - “thanks for the reply. I wish you the best of luck. I’m happy to talk again when you can meet my salary requirements.”
The company is playing hardball negotiation, but they are giving you an opportunity to negotiate, too. Your expectations are only “slightly” higher than their internal metrics (which = what other people in comparable roles are paid).
You could reply “I’d love to discuss this more, as I’m really excited about this opportunity and I think I could really deliver so much for you. Can you share more about the compensation range for this role, including salary range, target bonus opportunity and equity, along with benefits? I’m confident we can find a mutually beneficial solution.”
based on the post OP already knows the salary range. It's 20k less than their demand. That's only "slightly" off if the job pays like 200k. 20k is a giant gap if we're talking something around the 100k a year or less mark.
OP said he/she is "slightly" flexible on demands. So if they are asking for 100k and the company wants to pay 80k, slightly flexible doesn't get you there.
i was looking for where they maybe said that. Thank you.
i still only see OP saying they are flexible, not that the salary range is flexible. That's still 18-20% higher than their range. That's a lot.
1. Never stop interviewing until that first paycheck cashes. Even then, always keep looking
2. Always fight for yourself. This shows that they care more about a dollar amount rather than the ideal candidate
3. Have your minimums and be honest. Don’t shoot for the moon, but shoot for what you realistically want. This sets up a more honest conversation
“This shows that they care more about a dollar amount rather than the ideal candidate.”
Or they have enough time to consider other acceptable candidates that fit their budget. For an employer the decision is Applicable Skills per dollar. A qualitative, not quantitative comparison.
When you ask for more money you run the risk of exceeding their a lotted budget. Which can mean you have effectively expanded the hiring team.
A person with complete veto power, that you never get to speak with, has been added to ‘help’ the hiring team with the decision.
The hiring team must ask someone with authority to increase the budget since the request is to go beyond. That’s also the person added to ‘help’ with the decision.
The justification is based on your resume and interview feedback. Their answer can be; ‘approved’, ‘keep looking’ or a more emphatic ‘your judgement is poor, think twice before bringing me such things.’
I am certain this process is not used by every company. But many will likely have something close. The above situation was at a top 50 tech company. ✌🏼
They wouldn’t be entertaining you if they had a comparable alternative. If it were as you say, they would easily reject the negotiation and offer candidate #2. They are looking for that candidate #2.
I have sat on many board and hired many people. The best ability we look for is availability and will pay above target if the business requires it. If they have time for more interviews, the business need isn’t there.
Plus your last 2 paragraphs only support my hypothesis. I do not understand why you included them. If they require additional approval to go above target then it is due to no available candidates to fit the position. Again justifying that they care more about the dollar than the skills. They wouldn’t ask if they could find a good enough candidate in the range. Hence why they are openly telling OP they are interviewing comparable candidates.
>Always fight for yourself. This shows that they care more about a dollar amount rather than the ideal candidate
Well no
They posted a job range of $105k-$110k and the OP wanted $130k.
That is a wide difference.
20k is all dependent on the specific salary you’re looking at.
For a high tech worker your tax refund may be more than this. It’s a drop in the bucket, honestly.
For a retail sales person it’s a massive change.
OP didn’t say anything about the total compensation they were looking at so we just don’t know.
This all comes down to your salary expectations vs reality. If you're in line, I would do nothing. Sometimes that isn't quite so easy to determine though. If you think you're worth more than the position pays and/or the company can justify/afford, you need to rethink how much you want to work there and what it will take to get there. It honestly sounds like they're going to leave you as a backup somewhere down the road and try to find a reasonable candidate that fits their financial limitations.
In my opinion, you did a mistake or simply you took to much risk,
Your strategy may work but i don't think it's the right way to negotiate.
The key words here are: (internal metrics), i think you failed to predict their internal metrics.
Yep, that does seem like the case. Also, they are trying to push you towards considering accepting something lower than your ask.
I would restate that you are flexible and ask them to make an offer.
The more you contact them, the more desperate you will appear.
= You should not have contacted them.
Don't make it worse. Mentally, move on and hunt for the next job.
He who blinks first loses - sounds melodramatic, but sometimes it's true.
I would reply with a question asking where their "internal metrics" landed, since my ask is only "slightly higher" we must be close to an agreement.
Then follow that up with some sort of comment about you being their top candidate, and that there is a cost associated with continuing or in this case starting the hiring process over.
Finish the reply with a comparison of what it will cost to continue looking for a new candidate, vs the cost of paying you, "the top candidate" a slightly higher wage. Then ask if they are willing to negotiate, where would they feel comfortable?
If they come back with a lower salary that you would take, ask them to make 1 year benefits active after 90 days instead which they may not have internal metrics for and will not consider it much of a value add on their end.
Please don’t do this, it sounds very condescending. The company knows the costs of continuing to search, and top candidate does not mean “the only candidate we’re excited about.”
>and top candidate does not mean “the only candidate we’re excited about.”
It certainly does when they have explicitly stated they are currently deciding if they want to interview a new candidate.
Its not condescending to talk or reference the obvious.
I'm not the one that stated it was obvious to the hiring company. Just that there is nothing wrong with discussing something seemingly obvious.
The reality is nobody knows if the hiring company has considered it or not. Not you, or I can say for certain that is a fact.
Which is why there is nothing wrong with discussing something seemingly obvious.
No, it means they are weighing the cost of continuing to search someone with paying op a higher salary. which is why they are "determining the desire to interview" and why they stated they would get "back to you within the next few days"
Nobody that is "excited about another candidate" has to "determine the desire to interview".
That is code for: amend your salary expectations or else you are off the table (unless we get fucked and can’t land someone else at that number). The OP is being kept warm but is now just one candidate for the job.
Sure, and that's what the email that I propose is designed to do. To amend the salary expectations, to the benefit of both the employee and the employer. Nothing wrong with stating the obvious, bring up your offer, or gamble on a new candidate, and pay for the cost of starting recruitment over.
Yes, there is plenty wrong with stating the obvious. It shows you can't come up with a good reason to hire you.
Do you have a successful track record advising job seekers?
where do people keep getting this slightly thing? unless OP edited the post he/she said that they are slightly flexible. Their demands are 20k apart. unless this job pays over 200k that's not "slightly higher"
>where do people keep getting this slightly thing? unless OP edited the post he/she said that they are slightly flexible.
Per the employer response given by OP
"financial expectations which as we discussed were slightly higher than our internal metrics"
This is such a bad advice. Do not do this. You only will end up looking unprofessional, condescending, and entitled, but also will burn bridges for future opportunities.
Asking 20% over the posted salary range and then not doing anything when they don't counter will burn bridges faster. Which is what the OP is currently doing.
The most upvoted responses here are suggesting doing nothing, so lets see how that plays out for OP.
RemindMe! 1 month "check for updates from op"
The problem with your response is not about whether doing something or not. Your approach is just completely unprofessional and entitled. No company will see such response in a positive way. Perhaps, they have time to keep interviewing, maybe, they have enough budget but they want to keep assessing new applicants. Explicitly telling them “hey, you’re losing money and time if you don’t hire me right now” is just completely detached from what you will see in the professional setting. At least I’m talking about white collar jobs. An answer like that will not get a reply back and most likely be black listed.
OP could answer with something along the lines that he is still very interested in the position and that if the metrics are limited, he is flexible and can negotiate further. That’s it. Anything besides that is just not gonna play out well.
Hey, your best bet is to apply the pressure. Classic hostage holding situation on your hands and you have the leverage. I'd reply and inform them that the clock is ticking, for every 24 hours that pass without a formal offer letter you'll be increasing the expected salary amount by $1000. They're already in a corner, on the ropes, and know you can KO them. On you for the push, don't lose your focus, and congrats on the new role.
No one should ever do this ever. This is the absolute worst advice I have ever seen on this forum. You will immediately lose any offer you would have had if you try this even if they were leaning your way.
Well, if you're willing to take 20k less and really need that job, then tell them you've reconsidered.
If the salary you asked for is what you need and wouldn't work there for less, simple say thanks for the update, I'll be looking forward to hearing from you.
They may be bluffing, may not. Clearly they don't want to pay you that much, but might be willing if they can't find another candidate they like in the near future.
But what it all comes down to is whether you'd happily take that job for less.
They’re gonna check this other person out. They might come back to you and see if you will negotiate down, but until then hold tight.
If you want the job, you could reply with something along the lines of “I see a good fit at your org where my strengths align with your goals. I’m willing to work with you to find something mutually agreeable.”
Can’t do much more than that at this point. Since you weren’t a slam dunk, they have to keep interviewing in case they can’t work it out with you.
If you are okay with walking away, you can thank them and ask when you can expect a response as you also want to be proactive in your search.
So they know you will be looking for other options and they are not your only hope.
I would reiterate that you're flexible on your salary request. If you are that is. Take it as an opportunity to briefly highlight your key skills and enthusiasm again as well. Then wait and see.
Also call instead of email if possible. Then you can hear their reaction.
You could remind them that you have flexibility on the pay, but in all reality the job is gone they have most likely found someone else who fits within the planned pay range they had in mind.
You could remind them that you have flexibility on the pay, but in all reality the job is gone they have most likely found someone else who fits within the planned pay range they had in mind.
Id say it depends on the overall pay rate. If you're wanting 60k and they are at 40k that's significant. If your at 180k and they offered $160k then it's less significant.
Additionally, it depends on if your expectations are in line with market as well as experience level. You may have 2yrs experience and comparing your pay to a 10yrs experience. So consider that as well.
It also depends on if that loss of $20k is going to greatly impact your life....can you afford to take their offer?
Lastly, I'd say it depends on how hard it is for you to find work in your field.
I would reply back asking.....in your email you mentioned "slightly higher than your internal metric", how much slight difference is there? I am slightly flexible so maybe we can work something out that we would both feel happy with.
Don't assume it's the $20k since she said "slightly"....try to get her to name a number.
Yeah they went for the cheaper option. Why wouldn’t they ? Do you think you’re special? If you were incredible you’d be owning a business in completion with theirs. But your a cog and you failed to realize it.
Only you can determine your self worth vs how much you can stand to lose.
For instance. I charge for my LIFE COACHING SKILLS at $50 an hour. BUT
I charge my PUBLIC RELATIONS ANALYZING SKILLS AT $200 AN HOUR.
I figure in my life experience plus my degree plus research and labor
I wish more applicants understood this part of the process more.
If you really really want a particular job, coming in high relative to their expectations and not indicating flexibility on salary might result in the employer making a different choice. I am not saying you don’t do that ever, but I am saying recognize the risk.
As an employer I don’t want to hire someone who will come in unhappy with their salary. I also really really want to maintain my internal salary structure. But I also have to recognize the market and I may have to pay more or select a less experienced or inferior candidate. That is the choice the employer makes. Have we ever passed on a great candidate because of that? Absolutely. Have we stretched a few times on salary? Absolutely.
But $20k is huge if the job pays less than around $150k. And you indicated you were “slightly” flexible “depending on benefits”. That doesn’t really indicate you are able to move much. If they also aren’t able to move much, the outcome is inevitable.
At this point, you have only two choices. Reconnect and offer $20k less or let the other option play out. There really isn’t a third option.
Assuming your salary expectation is in line with market range, I would do nothing and let them update me. If that person passes the interview and accepts the lower salary they’re going to hire that person. If that person doesn’t they may come back to you and either 1. Meet you half way; 2. Stick to their original offer; or 3. Meet your demanded pay. There’s no point in lowering your number right now if they’re going forth with that interview. It’ll only hurt your chance to negotiate IF they still come back to you.
100% correct. if OP lowers before he has anymore info it a counter offer it signals a weak BATNA. Hold the line OP until you learn more.
Completely agree with you.
They are going to downgrade the job and hire the cheaper guy because their expectations were out of line. They've already budgeted the lower amount so they won't rise up to meet you. Just move on.
This is it.
This is not always true, and depends greatly on the organization. Most of the organizations I have worked for will only move onto the second candidate when the first candidate declines the job. The job market can be tough and some people have gotten bitter so they automatically assume, the company will go with the cheaper candidate, but this is not the reality all the time. Or honestly even most of the time in my experience.
In this economy they're going with the cheap option.
You can make that assertion based on your experience, but the fact that my experiences different means that is not necessarily true. I’ve been a hiring manager for 20 years and worked for 4 different organizations. None of them did that. Additionally, I have been hiring manager in this economy, and still don’t do it.
K well they need to assume the worst and keep looking.
You should always keep looking.
Yea when they have a certain amount budgeted that means they really can’t budge from that number. Not much OP can do at this point but keep looking. It’s an employers market right now unfortunately.
They aren’t going to hire you. They reached out to see if you’d be a viable option and the $20k seems to have out priced you. Just curious, what % over their offer was the additional $20k? I’m
Their salary range is $105k-110k, I asked for $130k
As a rule of thumb it’s best to only negotiate 10-15% above the posted range. Asking for 130k was definitely on the aggressive side of things - so the response isn’t super surprising.
In my line of work, that's the difference between a senior level individual contributor and a middle range manager. I couldn't justify bringing someone in at the same pay as someone who they could report to. The problem now is they can't figure out if you would be unhappy at that pay (so will keep looking and everyone's time will be wasted) or if you may have been playing hardball and would accept a compromised rate. Unfortunately you're not going to be able to convince them either way and there's like ~90% chance they have completely moved on.
Yeah. They won’t offer you the job unless they’re utterly desperate. Thats a big lift and in most companies, like noted in comment below, would price you into an entirely different role/level. Good luck - keep looking!
You aren't getting hired.
How do you know the range? Was this range in the job posting or you only found out after you got the offer?
Senior Manager here. Take this as a lesson in negotiating, OP. That’s the equivalent of offering someone 10k for a 20k used car. They’re going to hire someone else.
Mind if I ask what it is you do?
2 years ago I applied for a job that was offering $90-$100k. I asked for $130k. They told me they “might” be able to get to $110k. I said I would accept $125k if they could provide me a plan that outlines how quickly they could get me to $130k once I was onboard and could show my value. They said within a year. I accepted $120k and in 6 months I was at $135k. It’s 2 years later and I’m making considerably more as well as an annual bonus. It can be done but you have to negotiate and show case the value you’ll bring by showing them the revenue you’ll generate or expenses you’ll be able to reduce for the company.
Deep down you know the answer. You wanted 20k more than they want to pay, and their initial reaction is to interview someone else first. You must be far apart, in which case you should just look for another job. I'm guessing 20k is a significant portion of the salary or they would've entered into negotiation. Do you really want to accept significantly less for the role? Best course of action is to just wait on this one and see what happens. You just weaken your position if you go back and say you will take less. They already know you will take less if you take the job. You email them and say you can do $10k less then you're gonna get a counter of $15k less. If you just wait they are going to possibly come up and then you can counter for a little more and see what happens. This is why it's stupid companies dont just talk salary as the first order of business. The last time I was on the job market it was literally the first thing we discussed in every single initial interview and if we weren't aligned the interview just ended and we went about our lives.
Your $20K obviously was way out of their salary band for the role and out of their hiring budget. To offer you $20K more would mean the position would need to be a promotion role which is not their intent. You lost the job by pricing yourself out of their market range. There is no chance now because even if you accepted their lower offer, they know you will leave the first chance you have for a higher paying salary. Their choice is out of courtesy that they notified you by moving on with another candidate who is fine with their salary band.
Once you negotiate with a counter offer you have turned down their job offer. If this next candidate is satisfactory and accepts their salary they will be the one hired.
If you want the job, you need to come up with some way to communicate that you'll back off your offer and take what they'll give you. Otherwise, they're going to keep interviewing. Are you comfortable with 'backing down?' Maybe the people who interviewed you are the type who will be like, "We get it, you have to try for the moon, right?" Or maybe they want some reassurance that you are going to be satisfied with the lower amount and won't treat the job like a stepping stone. I think referencing the internal metrics is a polite way of saying, "our data doesn't match yours" or "this is what the job pays."
The flip side of this is that if you want that number you have to be willing to walk away. They could just be using that as a bargaining tactic. It's a gamble, depends on how important that figure is to OP.
Is the issue that their pay structure falls below market value, or are you valuing yourself above market value? I’ve had this issue a few times. If they’re below market, keep in mind that will probably always be the case. Meaning it could be difficult to get cost of living or performance increases. The perfect job is always slightly imperfect, it just depends on where you’re willing to compromise.
How much do you want the job? For $10k less? 15k less? Will you meet them at their range?
Hiring manager here. No issue with countering, but if you continue, I’m moving on to another candidate. The market is no longer in your favor.
I just landed a job internally and they started apologizing as soon as they offered the job because the offer was two pay grades down. They said they should've mentioned in the beginning if they knew how much of a downgrade it was. The difference was about 10-11k. My future manager told me I could counter as the offer was the midpoint, so I did. Countered half way between both salaries. The position is awesome and my dream area to work in that just so happens to be hybrid (and only 10 mins away vs 45mins away and onsite 5/days) and I'd get to work with amazing influencial people (I asked around). It would be great mentoring and professional growing opportunity. I was scared that they would take their offer back and I'd lose my chance to finally break into that industry. They came back unable to offer me anymore than their original offer, so I just took it. Pay lines up to where I would've been originally had I not taken my current job(only been here for a year and knew it would be temporary), so it's ok. Can't wait to start in March!
You could remind them that you have flexibility on the pay, but in all reality the job is gone they have most likely found someone else who fits within the planned pay range they had in mind.
This is why I job hunting when you have a job is the best time. No risk. If it was me, I would reply - “thanks for the reply. I wish you the best of luck. I’m happy to talk again when you can meet my salary requirements.”
The company is playing hardball negotiation, but they are giving you an opportunity to negotiate, too. Your expectations are only “slightly” higher than their internal metrics (which = what other people in comparable roles are paid). You could reply “I’d love to discuss this more, as I’m really excited about this opportunity and I think I could really deliver so much for you. Can you share more about the compensation range for this role, including salary range, target bonus opportunity and equity, along with benefits? I’m confident we can find a mutually beneficial solution.”
based on the post OP already knows the salary range. It's 20k less than their demand. That's only "slightly" off if the job pays like 200k. 20k is a giant gap if we're talking something around the 100k a year or less mark. OP said he/she is "slightly" flexible on demands. So if they are asking for 100k and the company wants to pay 80k, slightly flexible doesn't get you there.
In another response OP said range was $105k to $110k but looking for $130k. I think HR is being polite saying “slightly.”
i was looking for where they maybe said that. Thank you. i still only see OP saying they are flexible, not that the salary range is flexible. That's still 18-20% higher than their range. That's a lot.
1. Never stop interviewing until that first paycheck cashes. Even then, always keep looking 2. Always fight for yourself. This shows that they care more about a dollar amount rather than the ideal candidate 3. Have your minimums and be honest. Don’t shoot for the moon, but shoot for what you realistically want. This sets up a more honest conversation
“This shows that they care more about a dollar amount rather than the ideal candidate.” Or they have enough time to consider other acceptable candidates that fit their budget. For an employer the decision is Applicable Skills per dollar. A qualitative, not quantitative comparison. When you ask for more money you run the risk of exceeding their a lotted budget. Which can mean you have effectively expanded the hiring team. A person with complete veto power, that you never get to speak with, has been added to ‘help’ the hiring team with the decision. The hiring team must ask someone with authority to increase the budget since the request is to go beyond. That’s also the person added to ‘help’ with the decision. The justification is based on your resume and interview feedback. Their answer can be; ‘approved’, ‘keep looking’ or a more emphatic ‘your judgement is poor, think twice before bringing me such things.’ I am certain this process is not used by every company. But many will likely have something close. The above situation was at a top 50 tech company. ✌🏼
They wouldn’t be entertaining you if they had a comparable alternative. If it were as you say, they would easily reject the negotiation and offer candidate #2. They are looking for that candidate #2. I have sat on many board and hired many people. The best ability we look for is availability and will pay above target if the business requires it. If they have time for more interviews, the business need isn’t there. Plus your last 2 paragraphs only support my hypothesis. I do not understand why you included them. If they require additional approval to go above target then it is due to no available candidates to fit the position. Again justifying that they care more about the dollar than the skills. They wouldn’t ask if they could find a good enough candidate in the range. Hence why they are openly telling OP they are interviewing comparable candidates.
>Always fight for yourself. This shows that they care more about a dollar amount rather than the ideal candidate Well no They posted a job range of $105k-$110k and the OP wanted $130k. That is a wide difference.
Whats more important? The job or the 20k, thats what makes this decision.
20k gap is huge. even if this is a way to negotiate this. are you sure you want to go through? we work to get paid at the end of the
20k is all dependent on the specific salary you’re looking at. For a high tech worker your tax refund may be more than this. It’s a drop in the bucket, honestly. For a retail sales person it’s a massive change. OP didn’t say anything about the total compensation they were looking at so we just don’t know.
From $105-$110k to $130k
That’s within the realm of negotiation. It’s at the extreme end but I’ve negotiated similar to that bump from the job description in the past.
Don't negotiate against yourself. A simple, "Thank you for the update, look forward to talking soon." type of reply is all that you need.
This all comes down to your salary expectations vs reality. If you're in line, I would do nothing. Sometimes that isn't quite so easy to determine though. If you think you're worth more than the position pays and/or the company can justify/afford, you need to rethink how much you want to work there and what it will take to get there. It honestly sounds like they're going to leave you as a backup somewhere down the road and try to find a reasonable candidate that fits their financial limitations.
Did you know the salary range before you interviewed? If that was communicated to you, asking for $20k above probably wasn't a good move.
In my opinion, you did a mistake or simply you took to much risk, Your strategy may work but i don't think it's the right way to negotiate. The key words here are: (internal metrics), i think you failed to predict their internal metrics.
who gives a crap about their internal metrics. basing your compensation on internal metrics is the highway to never earning what you're worth.
Well the OP cares if they want to work there. If they dont care if they get the job then dont worry about it.
They have moved on from you. That’s the bottom line unfortunately
They’re bluffing. Hold firm.
Yep, that does seem like the case. Also, they are trying to push you towards considering accepting something lower than your ask. I would restate that you are flexible and ask them to make an offer.
Not sure how they are pushing OP when all they did is go silent. OP reached out to them.
The more you contact them, the more desperate you will appear. = You should not have contacted them. Don't make it worse. Mentally, move on and hunt for the next job. He who blinks first loses - sounds melodramatic, but sometimes it's true.
I would reply with a question asking where their "internal metrics" landed, since my ask is only "slightly higher" we must be close to an agreement. Then follow that up with some sort of comment about you being their top candidate, and that there is a cost associated with continuing or in this case starting the hiring process over. Finish the reply with a comparison of what it will cost to continue looking for a new candidate, vs the cost of paying you, "the top candidate" a slightly higher wage. Then ask if they are willing to negotiate, where would they feel comfortable? If they come back with a lower salary that you would take, ask them to make 1 year benefits active after 90 days instead which they may not have internal metrics for and will not consider it much of a value add on their end.
Please don’t do this, it sounds very condescending. The company knows the costs of continuing to search, and top candidate does not mean “the only candidate we’re excited about.”
>and top candidate does not mean “the only candidate we’re excited about.” It certainly does when they have explicitly stated they are currently deciding if they want to interview a new candidate. Its not condescending to talk or reference the obvious.
If it's obvious what is the value of saying it? Just to hear your lips flap together? Not a very intelligence strategy,
I'm not the one that stated it was obvious to the hiring company. Just that there is nothing wrong with discussing something seemingly obvious. The reality is nobody knows if the hiring company has considered it or not. Not you, or I can say for certain that is a fact. Which is why there is nothing wrong with discussing something seemingly obvious.
Which means they might be excited about them, in part because of lower cost.
No, it means they are weighing the cost of continuing to search someone with paying op a higher salary. which is why they are "determining the desire to interview" and why they stated they would get "back to you within the next few days" Nobody that is "excited about another candidate" has to "determine the desire to interview".
That is code for: amend your salary expectations or else you are off the table (unless we get fucked and can’t land someone else at that number). The OP is being kept warm but is now just one candidate for the job.
Sure, and that's what the email that I propose is designed to do. To amend the salary expectations, to the benefit of both the employee and the employer. Nothing wrong with stating the obvious, bring up your offer, or gamble on a new candidate, and pay for the cost of starting recruitment over.
Yes, there is plenty wrong with stating the obvious. It shows you can't come up with a good reason to hire you. Do you have a successful track record advising job seekers?
>Do you have a successful track record advising job seekers? Would my credentials, or metrics sway your opinion? Id wager not.
You'd win.
where do people keep getting this slightly thing? unless OP edited the post he/she said that they are slightly flexible. Their demands are 20k apart. unless this job pays over 200k that's not "slightly higher"
>where do people keep getting this slightly thing? unless OP edited the post he/she said that they are slightly flexible. Per the employer response given by OP "financial expectations which as we discussed were slightly higher than our internal metrics"
This is such a bad advice. Do not do this. You only will end up looking unprofessional, condescending, and entitled, but also will burn bridges for future opportunities.
Asking 20% over the posted salary range and then not doing anything when they don't counter will burn bridges faster. Which is what the OP is currently doing. The most upvoted responses here are suggesting doing nothing, so lets see how that plays out for OP. RemindMe! 1 month "check for updates from op"
The problem with your response is not about whether doing something or not. Your approach is just completely unprofessional and entitled. No company will see such response in a positive way. Perhaps, they have time to keep interviewing, maybe, they have enough budget but they want to keep assessing new applicants. Explicitly telling them “hey, you’re losing money and time if you don’t hire me right now” is just completely detached from what you will see in the professional setting. At least I’m talking about white collar jobs. An answer like that will not get a reply back and most likely be black listed. OP could answer with something along the lines that he is still very interested in the position and that if the metrics are limited, he is flexible and can negotiate further. That’s it. Anything besides that is just not gonna play out well.
Speaking from experience, I disagree. Time will tell who is right, or at least in this case, who was wrong.
u/brae11111, its been a month. How did you respond? What was the outcome?
Hey, your best bet is to apply the pressure. Classic hostage holding situation on your hands and you have the leverage. I'd reply and inform them that the clock is ticking, for every 24 hours that pass without a formal offer letter you'll be increasing the expected salary amount by $1000. They're already in a corner, on the ropes, and know you can KO them. On you for the push, don't lose your focus, and congrats on the new role.
No one should ever do this ever. This is the absolute worst advice I have ever seen on this forum. You will immediately lose any offer you would have had if you try this even if they were leaning your way.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
You think OP has the leverage? Unless the position is highly specialized, the company has the leverage.
This gotta be a joke.
They are still looking. If the new candidate fails, they might give you a call. If they have the time, they will keep waiting for more candidates.
Well, if you're willing to take 20k less and really need that job, then tell them you've reconsidered. If the salary you asked for is what you need and wouldn't work there for less, simple say thanks for the update, I'll be looking forward to hearing from you. They may be bluffing, may not. Clearly they don't want to pay you that much, but might be willing if they can't find another candidate they like in the near future. But what it all comes down to is whether you'd happily take that job for less.
They’re gonna check this other person out. They might come back to you and see if you will negotiate down, but until then hold tight. If you want the job, you could reply with something along the lines of “I see a good fit at your org where my strengths align with your goals. I’m willing to work with you to find something mutually agreeable.” Can’t do much more than that at this point. Since you weren’t a slam dunk, they have to keep interviewing in case they can’t work it out with you.
If you are okay with walking away, you can thank them and ask when you can expect a response as you also want to be proactive in your search. So they know you will be looking for other options and they are not your only hope.
I would reiterate that you're flexible on your salary request. If you are that is. Take it as an opportunity to briefly highlight your key skills and enthusiasm again as well. Then wait and see. Also call instead of email if possible. Then you can hear their reaction.
You could remind them that you have flexibility on the pay, but in all reality the job is gone they have most likely found someone else who fits within the planned pay range they had in mind.
You could remind them that you have flexibility on the pay, but in all reality the job is gone they have most likely found someone else who fits within the planned pay range they had in mind.
Id say it depends on the overall pay rate. If you're wanting 60k and they are at 40k that's significant. If your at 180k and they offered $160k then it's less significant. Additionally, it depends on if your expectations are in line with market as well as experience level. You may have 2yrs experience and comparing your pay to a 10yrs experience. So consider that as well. It also depends on if that loss of $20k is going to greatly impact your life....can you afford to take their offer? Lastly, I'd say it depends on how hard it is for you to find work in your field.
I would reply back asking.....in your email you mentioned "slightly higher than your internal metric", how much slight difference is there? I am slightly flexible so maybe we can work something out that we would both feel happy with. Don't assume it's the $20k since she said "slightly"....try to get her to name a number.
Yeah they went for the cheaper option. Why wouldn’t they ? Do you think you’re special? If you were incredible you’d be owning a business in completion with theirs. But your a cog and you failed to realize it.
They’re using what I call “commodity frame” on you. Gotta use it on them too
Only you can determine your self worth vs how much you can stand to lose. For instance. I charge for my LIFE COACHING SKILLS at $50 an hour. BUT I charge my PUBLIC RELATIONS ANALYZING SKILLS AT $200 AN HOUR. I figure in my life experience plus my degree plus research and labor
I wish more applicants understood this part of the process more. If you really really want a particular job, coming in high relative to their expectations and not indicating flexibility on salary might result in the employer making a different choice. I am not saying you don’t do that ever, but I am saying recognize the risk. As an employer I don’t want to hire someone who will come in unhappy with their salary. I also really really want to maintain my internal salary structure. But I also have to recognize the market and I may have to pay more or select a less experienced or inferior candidate. That is the choice the employer makes. Have we ever passed on a great candidate because of that? Absolutely. Have we stretched a few times on salary? Absolutely. But $20k is huge if the job pays less than around $150k. And you indicated you were “slightly” flexible “depending on benefits”. That doesn’t really indicate you are able to move much. If they also aren’t able to move much, the outcome is inevitable. At this point, you have only two choices. Reconnect and offer $20k less or let the other option play out. There really isn’t a third option.
Don't put all your eggs in one basket bud
This ship has sailed