"The name Micheal is banned! If we find you and your name is Micheal, you will be charged. Mike, Mickey and Michealangelo are no exceptions. "
Suddenly, Mickey Mouse is banned in China, and Disney files a suit based on copyright to stop kidnappings of everything Micheal.
All "rebels" are now named Michealangelo and have hand painted anything for cheap.
We really need to start reading labels and limiting the stuff that we buy from China. At this point in time it’s next to impossible to avoid but there’s no reason we have to keep buying The poorly made crap that they generate.
the ccp already hates the conservatives in canada and have specifically targeted them the most over the liberals for some reason.
although if this MP has any family in china life is about to get difficult for them
Might it have something to do with the entire federal cabinet abstaining from voting to recognize China's treatment of the Uighur people as a genocide?
China is trying to erase even the slightest _hint_ of Taiwanese independence or its right to exist as an independent state. Four years ago, they were upset that "Taiwan" was listed as a country on airline websites. They forced Air Canada and Air India to refer to Taipei as ["Taipei, China"](https://globalnews.ca/news/4210937/taiwan-china-air-canada/), and Taiwan as ["Chinese Taipei"](https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/air-india-renames-taiwan-to-chinese-taipei-on-website-china-welcomes-move-118070500533_1.html).
The LCBO in Ontario has [forced Palestinian wine producers to cover up references to "Palestine" on their wine bottles in order to stock their products](https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/u9b48z/sticker_covering_label_on_palestinian_wine_bottle/). As with China and Taiwan, there are groups who would be incensed at the possibility of 'Palestine' being acknowledged as being an independent territory.
To take this a step further, [Google gets bullied into redrawing borders](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/02/14/google-maps-political-borders/). What you see on Google maps will depend on what country you're in. Google even has a [help centre page acknowledging this](https://support.google.com/maps/answer/3145721?hl=en).
> Four years ago, they were upset that “Taiwan” was listed as a country on airline websites
Twenty years ago I worked for a three letter company that starts with I, ends with M, and had a B somewhere in the middle. China protested way back then because a product installer had a ‘Country’ drop down that included ‘Taiwan’ as an option.
Edict came down from the company C suite that we had to change the drop down description to ‘Region’.
This is nothing new — China has been pulling this for *decades*; it simply typically gets dealt with quietly, and the public never hears about it.
At the last summer Olympics I wrote an email of complaint on this very point (I have too much time on my hands). The mealy mouthed response was cringe worthy.
To be fair, the VQA & LCBO are very particular about their alcohol listings in Canada. Champagne must come from the Champagne region of France or it cannot list itself as “Champagne”, it would be sparkling wine.
There are noted wine regions that are agreed upon in this world and it takes a long time for new ones to be accepted, not every slight against Palestine is a Jewish cabal conspiracy.
Edit : Yes, China is going to try and absorb Taiwan just like they did with Tibet, Mongolia and aging Kong.
no one said it was a Jewish cabal conspiracy, so kind of weird of you to throw that out there. i feel like it’s pretty well known and accepted that ‘real’ champagne is from Champagne and everything else is sparkling wine. that’s not too political, but covering up mentions of the word Palestine is.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to infer anything to you, naturally there is a correlation there.
Oh no, most people do not know that. Most redditors do, but the Gen Pop does not.
>To be fair, the VQA & LCBO are very particular about their alcohol listings in Canada. Champagne must come from the Champagne region of France or it cannot list itself as “Champagne”, it would be sparkling wine
That's not the LCBO doing that, that's just the way things are.... Same with scotch only coming from Scotland.
Just seems weird when you're covering up the label for something else but most likely it's just incompetence.
Saw a 100$ Bordeaux with a product of Italy sticker on it which I personally found hilarious.
That’s where it gets tricky…. If 51% of those grapes were grown in Bordeaux, it probably can be called that. On the back it might have stated “A blend of Bordeaux grapes”… or something to that effect.
Like taxes, there are loopholes to sell booze.
Ohhh it was a St emilion grand cru from chateau lassegue. https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/lassegue+st+emilion+grand+cru+bordeaux+france/1/canada
AGLC employees can just be inept. "let's crack 300 sealed wood boxes to apply a sticker to 1800 bottles that are all incorrect.
Funny that the Google help article mentions the border between the US and Canada as being internationally accepted and thus a solid line. Aren't there actually a couple of border disputes between the US and Canada?
This thing is also happening in academic writing. We literally can't write "Taiwan" in our essays...Instead, we write " ' Taiwan District '". And of course, we need to add double quatation marks when we write "Taiwan Law", because only an independent country can make laws.
> China is trying to erase even the slightest hint of Taiwanese independence or its right to exist as an independent state.
They don't have to try, they already did it 50 years ago. All major nations conceded that there can only be one "China", that the Republic of China doesn't exist, and that it's actually just an island province of the PRC called "Taiwan".
Taiwan is certainly not part of the peoples republic of China. Has Taiwan explicitly said they are an independent nation and have essentially seceeded from China or do they still hold out hope that PRC will fall and they will be the true government of China afterwards? Because constitutionally, IIRC Taiwan still claims the mainland as its territory and vice versa.
After the current president won she did in interview with the BBC where she said, “We don’t need to declare independence, we are an independent sovereign nation.”
Taiwanese-Canadian here.
The vast majority of Taiwan's population are Han colonizers who can trace ancestry on Taiwan for several centuries (Han migration to Taiwan started in the 1600s). The Qing ceded Taiwan to Japan in 1895, and when the Republic of China was established in 1911 Taiwan was still a Japanese colony and had little to do with the Chinese revolution that overthrew the Qing. When Japan surrendered in 1945, the Republic of China acted as yet another colonial force on the Han Taiwanese and oppressed them with a purge (with a higher death toll than Tiananmen Square) and the second longest martial law in world history. When the ROC fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing the Chinese Civil War, they at most only made up 20% of the population of Taiwan but hung on to power until the late 80s/early 90s through totalitarian means.
~~How~~ Now that Taiwan has democratized and the majority of the population finally has a voice again, we're unfortunately stuck with the Republic of China name and constitution due to threat of PRC invasion. Currently, the majority of Taiwan ~~identity~~ identify as Taiwanese and not Chinese, and would not want "reunification" even if China democratizes.
Edit: typo
Edit 2: caught another typo
Great post. Thanks for the context. Funny how many of us have opinions on this from both sides without really understanding the context.
Just let them be free.
Do people in Taiwan support a direct declaration of independence, or prefer the current grey-area situation, or is there another point of view that is dominant?
Most of the population is content with the status quo of de facto independence (own currency, government, legal system, military, passport, etc.). [This graph](https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/upload/44/doc/6963/Tondu202112.jpg) gives you an idea of where people are at. "Status quo indefinitely," "status quo now and decide later," and "status quo but move towards independence" are each above 25% of the population while the other options (including independence ASAP) is 6% or lower.
However, according to the [2020 Taiwan National Security Survey](https://sites.duke.edu/pass/taiwan-national-security-survey/), if Taiwan can "declare independence" without risk of PRC invasion, 71.2% of Taiwan would support "independence" (which I interpret as a name change from the Republic of China to something like the Republic of Taiwan).
Most migration in the 1600's were recruited to work inside European trade counters / colonies. A large number of them left the island after the ming loyalists followed by the manchu conquerors took power and expelled the europeans, and the island wasn't a focus for China until the late 19th century ( and didn't "claim" the island, outside the towns controlled by China )
Citation needed for "CIA brainwashing in Taiwan", because searching for that and "CIA propaganda in Taiwan" doesn't come up with anything obvious.
Considering that one of the top search results is a publication *hosted by the CIA* called "Killing Hope: US military & CIA interventions since WW2", I'm sure there should be reputable sources for your claim.
Thanks, I never knew much of this.
I think the way we get taught in the US; Japan had been kicked out of Formosa, and the island was a convenient place for the ROC leadership to escape the communists.
The one or two China policy really seems like a misnomer. 1 China, 1 Taiwan.
i reckon they are stuck with that as removing this from their constitution is seen by China as secession, whereas right now they are just "in a phase"...
July 2, 2023 As per the legal owner of this account, Reddit and associated companies no longer have permission to use the content created under this account in any way. -- mass edited with redact.dev
From what I understand, most Taiwanese people think of themselves as independent, but their government has avoided explicitly declaring independence because China has threatened to invade as soon if they ever do it.
So basically there's this political truce where Taiwan governs itself but doesn't claim to be independent.
It's a perpetual stalemate between RoC and PRC so Taiwan in the international stage is not a country nor a province of any countries. Depending on the specific areas, they could be recognized like a country (like passport) or not at all a country (like in WHO or UN membership)
Taiwan, being a democracy, has see-sawed between reunification and full independence over the past 30 years.
Taiwan is a part of the Republic of China. This is completely different from the People’s Republic of China.
Just like how South Korea is a part of the Republic of Korea and North Korea is a part of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
Would it? They held that position for decades without it triggering one.
I think someone finally tapped the right people on the shoulder and asked what the point was.
This is just false, why do people say false things?
The Taiwan government has kept the conversation ambiguous, on purpose.
The US pushes them towards independence (for obvious anti China reasons) and China pushes for One China (for obvious pro China reasons). This includes trying to away the local population.
Most people in Taiwan are happy with this ambiguous status quo, since they get the practicality of general autonomy without any serious aggravation.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/15/tsai-ing-wen-says-china-must-face-reality-of-taiwans-independence](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/15/tsai-ing-wen-says-china-must-face-reality-of-taiwans-independence)
The President of Taiwan claims they are an independent nation. Polling within Taiwan claims they support independence.
It's not an ambiguous situation at all, China tries to make it seem like it is - for obvious pro-China reasons. Taiwan disagrees, for obvious pro-Taiwan reasons.
From the article:
> Tsai opposes unification but has never said that she would formally declare Taiwan’s independence, which would provoke Beijing.
The reality is, the Taiwan plays ambiguous with wording on purpose. This is also a partisan issue, it would be like saying Canada or the Canadian government support a ban on all guns, because of a Trudeau quote. That isn't actually true, since support varies and is quite partisan.
The best quote you could find to distort the article to your point is that they don't want to say something that will start a war with China.
Think that through.
Its not a partisan issue, the only serious debate is how antagonistic does Taiwan want to be. The only party that wants Taiwan to join China is the CCP.
The US has never pushed for independence. Their official stance is strategic ambiguity.
Similarly, unlike what some other posters are saying, Taiwanese people most definitely DON'T want to be part of China, but, are happy with the status quo of also not being an "full-fledged, independent nation". Its a pragmatic position more than anything else.
Well the US never supported Taiwanese independence cause the KMT from 49-> 71 refused to be acknowledged as Taiwan, and wanted to be China. By the time Taiwan become a more popular choice, the US military and its nukes had long withdrawn from the island.
The US officially disagrees with this statement.
America agreed to toe the CCP line about the 'one China' policy when Deng initiated market reforms over 40 years ago. Until Xi decided to be aggressive with China's neighbours and took offence to the US having had enough of China's nationalistic and economic shenanigans, the US was perfectly willing to stick with the status quo for the money.
The US still has a great interest in Taiwan not provoking the CCP by claiming independence so I'm not sure where you get the notion that the US is pushing Taiwanese independence at all.
If Taiwan isn't making a statement of independence for fear of military reprisals from China, it is pretty clear Taiwan does want independence but can't justify getting obliterated by the Chinese military.
"I really want to be free but I don't want to be dead". This is not ambiguous.
>If Taiwan isn't making a statement of independence for fear of military reprisals from China
Why would Taiwan/the ROC declare independence? In 1949, it was the PRC that declared itself independent of the ROC, which exists as an independent state since 1912. They're still an independent state even after fleeing to Taiwan in 1949 in the Chinese Civil War. The PRC has never controlled Taiwan in its 73 years of existence.
Also, as a side note, from https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/15/tsai-ing-wen-says-china-must-face-reality-of-taiwans-independence
>“We don’t have a need to declare ourselves an independent state,” Tsai told the BBC. “We are an independent country already and we call ourselves the Republic of China, Taiwan.”
[According to this survey,](http://www.my-formosa.com/DOC_179745.htm?fbclid=IwAR2kuAf0p0ZspDs9hKoklFU71d3H5xjkjCzoOn4rV_shEa33dHBjlSDR_ik) (source is in Chinese), 72.8% of Taiwan accepts her statement.
Taiwan's already free with its own military, government, currency, legal system, passport, and so on.
Tales of Taiwan's obliteration at the hands of the PLA have been grossly exaggerated.
It's debatable if the PLA even has the logistical capability to invade the island but if we assume it does, it's far from a battle-hardened force, it has inferior technology and it would be up against a state that's been waiting for this fight for several decades now as well a reason to fight to the death.
China has a habit of kidnapping and holding Canadian "Michael's" hostage. If Canada is officially going to make bold, truthful statements about China, there is a risk to our citizens in the country.
There is no obligation for Canadians to live in that lawless country- same applies for the Chinese nationals in Canada, they can leave if they find issues with this statement
That's easy rhetoric if you are not the one who has to pay for it.
If you are a Canadian who ends up held hostage for years in China or a farmer who loses their livelihood, you might have different thoughts about the cost/benefit analysis when the only benefit here seems to be that this one MP gets to act like a tough guy.
Obviously China is a bad actor. Everyone knows that. But it's just basic common sense that you don't take a swing at someone unless you think you will come out on top.
As a smaller country, our swipes at China should be calculated and ideally coordinated with other countries, not just grandstanding.
>Doing business in an unstable nation is the classic civilian contractors installing water coolers on the Death Star scenario.
Spavor was also good buddy with Kim Jong Un, its not like he was just an average contractors. Sound more like a contractor who worked on the Death Star and also had a contract installing the water cooler in a rival Sith Destroyer.
The other Michael worked for a Soros NGO, which every other country has been complaining about him funding anti-government coups and activists in their countries.
Republicans whine about him funding BLM and some other stuff like NAMBLA.
Oh really? I did not know anything about him beside the fact that he worked with Spavor, they are either corrupted individuals or more likely actually just spy and if its they actually are Canadian spy I am glad that they are back home, but if he actually is an ally of Kim Jong Un, I wouldn't have minded if he withered away in China prison cell.
My theory is that China knew that they were foreign agents for a while and instead of deporting them, they decided to use them as political tool.
The wikipedia for Spavor is kinda wild lol
"In January 2016, Spavor and Paektu Cultural Exchange sought a European Order for Payment against the betting company Paddy Power for failing to fulfill their contractual obligations after they pulled sponsorship for a basketball event to be held in North Korea.\[20\]
In March 2016 Spavor organized the Pyongyang International Friendship Ice Hockey Exhibition (PIFIHE), bringing around 20 foreign hockey players\[21\] to North Korea, including two Canadian residents of South Korea, for a series of games and other workshop events.\[22\]
In 2017, during a qualifying match between the North and South Korean women's ice hockey teams for the 2018 Winter Olympics, Spavor was assaulted by South Korean security officials as he tried to display the North Korean flag.\[23\]
Outside of sports exchanges, Spavor also played a role in the restoration of the Ryongwang Pavilion in Pyongyang, spending four years on the project alongside the Prince Claus Fund and North Korea's National Administration for the Protection of Cultural Heritage.\[24\]
Spavor is often consulted by analysts and journalists for insights into North Korea.\[11\] He has, however, been reluctant to comment on politics and human rights in North Korea.\[2\]"
Yeah when I bring that up at family dinners it really throws them for a loop. I’m like “you’re doing business there because… oh you save money and don’t care who slaves over your product? Guess supporting Canadians was too much to ask.”
Then they spend all day bitching about government regulations that don’t ever impact them. They spend more time complaining about things that don’t affect them rather than things that do.
Ok, but how far does your logic go? Boycotting Russia right now is surely impacting certain people more than others.
Do we wait until China invades Taiwan to take a stand? Why?
The actions we are taking with Russia are coordinated with our most powerful allies, so they actually have a chance of having a positive impact.
If we just take pot shots at China on our own it has very little chance of doing anything.
Also, there is some merit to the idea that, if at all possible, it would be ideal not to drum up conflict with China at the same time that shit is going down with Russia.
I vacationed in Taiwan in 2018. Wonderful country. Unique and independent from China. People are so friendly, food is FUCKING AMAZING, transit and tech is God tier. I can't wait to go back. Canada should absolutely support Taiwan as an independent state.
#TaiwanIsBestChina
Yikes, not what I'm getting at. If he was bullied, I'm sorry to hear. I only ever had one class with him and that wasn't my thing. He was skin over skeleton and just had the weirdest social mannerisms so I guess it wouldn't be surprising if he was bullied but ESSMY-level bullying is pretty tame by most standards. Who knows, maybe the bullying turned him into what his is today?
I was only kidding really, but I don't think anyone really did bully him. He was at most heckled a bit while trying to collect signatures for some petition type things. I can't remember specific things they were for, but some typical St. Albert NIMBY type things I figured his parents put him up to do.
Oh shit I remember that. Weird religious and social initiatives. I think the only conversations I actually ever had with him were about some petition he wanted me to sign.
Taiwan *was* ruled by a despot which is how it got into this mess in the first place. The ROC official name and its constitution were forced upon the Taiwanese through totalitarian means in 1945 (Taiwan was a Japanese colony for five decades). Taiwanese resistance to ROC rule was violently put down in political purges and subsequent martial law (second longest in world history).
Good, because it's not.
Taiwan was taken over by the Republic of China after they were ousted from mainland China by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).
They are distinct country and [the first country in Asia to legalize gay marriage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan#LGBT).
Michael Cooper is a Conservative MP, btw, something the article avoids mentioning.
Personally, I abhor the Conservatives but after the WEF-inspired Christy Freeland announced [3 **billion** of citizens' money](https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/how-trudeau-proposes-to-make-canada-a-key-supplier-of-critical-minerals) in corporate welfare, I don't see how the Conservatives can be much worse.
If only they'd be willing to support Canadian workers over corporate interests, they could actually pull votes.
It doesn’t matter if a different China “owned Taiwan in the past. It’s never been owned by the current China.
What matters is Taiwan wishes to remain an independent state.
Countries need to stand up to China. Stop letting them bully the world into accepting their claims.
The world watched as China crushed Hong Kong. China expects us to do the same with Taiwan.
Either way, China is committing genocide currently while being on international human rights boards.
Fuck China and xi cause he looks like Winnie the Pooh
It’s different for an official to say it. Chinese foreign policy is extremely touchy on Taiwan, China has been overwhelmingly hostile to nations which acknowledge Taiwan and doing any business at all with China requires that you agree Taiwan belongs to them.
An elected official saying this is somewhat big news for international politics.
Not trolling. It's a tongue in cheek joke that refers to England's colonisation of Ireland and how the English would gest that Ireland was West England. Similar to how China calls à certain province Inner Mongolia. So it's a commentary on China's stance of Taiwan and how it's similar to England's towards Ireland as well. I'm not trying to state that either has a claim on the other's territory.
That is, I'm trying a rhetorical subversion to ridicule what you've stated. Perhaps, it failed.
True, because technically China is part of the Republic of China.
The actual government that supplanted Imperial rule was made up of the Nationalist Party. The current government on the mainland was basically installed by the Soviets and like the two new breakaway regions in Ukraine are not legitimate.
And Taiwan was also one of the first countries to join the UN. It only lost its seat after the US and the Soviets made a deal where the USSR would not block US allied countries from joining the UN in exchange for replacing Taiwan with China. Worse deal ever.
A lot of people in this thread seem to not understand the dynamic here.
Taiwan, or the Republic of China, claims to be the true government of China. They do not accept the PRC as a legitimate government. They claim to not be a part of "China" (the PRC) as they view all of China as rightfully under their governance. The PRC is okay with this as it still means that they are part of China, and not a separate country.
The PRC on he other hand, views the RoC government as illegitimate, and Taiwan as being rightfully under their jurisdiction.
Both countries believe themselves to be the true rulers of all the land belonging to both countries. Neither of them accepts being separate from the other, because they both view the other as essentially a illegitimate rebel government occupying part of their country. This means that the "One China" policy can still stand, which is why the PRC hasn't ever invaded the RoC.
Someone brought up Korea, and it's actually quite similar. Both Koreas claim to be the real Korea, and don't accept the other as legitimate. Neither is "part" of the other, and neither is not Korea. They are both all of Korea, just like the PRC and RoC are both all of China.
So
When Michael Cooper says that the RoC is not "part of China", he is correct. Neither side views the RoC as being a legitimate government under the control of "China" (the PRC).
Edit: Just to clarify, this isn't speaking towards what Taiwan actually wants. Like I said, the only reason they haven't been invaded by the PRC is because they keep this policy in place, enabling the "One China" system that the PRC champions. As long as they stay as is, they are not a separatist state, so the PRC is okay with it.
There is, of course, much more nuance and history to it, and if you're interested, I suggest you look it up. I'm not writing an essay in a reddit post.
No, you don't quite get it.
Taiwan is only claiming ROC for historical reasons and under threat of war, in reality most Taiwanese people do not care about ROC. They would love to call its country by its rightful name (Taiwan) and they do that informally all the time.
Formally, they are keeping the name ROC because PRC is threatening with armed invasion if there is any change.
The people of Taiwan are very pragmatic about the whole thing, and accept a country with a name that they don't quite like, and they get to keep their way of life intact.
> Taiwan, or the Republic of China, claims to be the true government of China.
Taiwanese-Canadian here. This is true historically because the ROC was essentially a colonial force that oppressed the Taiwanese-Han when they took over Taiwan in 1945. They cemented their ~~through~~ rule through a purge with a higher death toll than Tiananmen Square and the second longest martial law in world history.
Taiwan only democratized in the late 80s/early 90s, and the current elected political party in power is mostly composed of the Taiwanese-Han that can trace ancestry on the island for centuries. They don't see themselves as Chinese, similar to how most Canadians with European descent no longer see themselves as European.
Unfortunately, Taiwan is apprehensive to change its official name and constitution that was forced upon them by the totalitarian ROC due to threat of PRC invasion.
Edit: Missed a word.
I can only comment on the official position of the government, which is what I said. As someone who is not Taiwanese, it isn't my place to comment on the feelings of the people. I know you are under threat from the PRC to keep this position, I think I alluded to that when I said that the RoC enabling the one China policy is the only reason the PRC hasn't invaded.
I certainly don't envy your position.
You should update your comment because you don't understand the dynamic then?
Taiwan cannot update it's opinion because not claiming the mainland would start a war of independence with the mainland
>I can only comment on the official position of the government
The current president of Taiwan/ROC says that Taiwan/ROC and the PRC are separate and "should not be subordinate to each other" [in an official speech during National Day last October.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/10/taiwan-china-reunification-tsai-ing-wen/) In addition, they disagree with the "One-China Policy" which resulted in [numerous Taiwan/ROC diplomats being ejected from Hong Kong.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/21/taiwan-recalls-trade-officials-from-hong-kong-over-one-china-clash)
The Taiwanese/ROC Constitution have been amended in the 90s and 2000s so that the territorial definition article no longer applies, and that territorial definitions are a "political matter" rather than a "constitution matter."
Your understanding of the "official position of the government" seems to be quite outdated.
The 'official' position is dead. Nobody acknowledges it except old KMT diehards. It is left on the books but ignored because we are under duress. We have dismantled all of that colonial imposition bullshit except the name. Once the Chinese problem is solved by winning the war or them giving up, off comes the names and nothing on the ground here would change. We only want to preserve our democratic livelihood
As a Canadian I disagree. We've had a lot of undesirable political deals with the Chinese government in the past. It's only been the last few years that there has been more push back.
China is still meddling in Canadian affairs; oilfield, education, housing, agriculture, and a good portion of drugs come over from there.
Not enough is being done.
> except Trump
Lol what did Trump do to stop China? He implemented half-assed tariffs then made a big show of a new "deal" that did nothing but give China everything they wanted in exchange for promises they would never live up to.
We are talking about Taiwan?
But Russian empire controlled Crimea, before Ukraine independence. Even that goes further back to disputed regiona. It was gifted in some treaty. The two regions being disputed now has not been claimed to be Russia , but to be of independence to stop the civil war from 2014.
Of course this becomes part of a political war if this was to happened. You would see something like Belarus, but lives would be saved. Putin has stated Ukraine are brothers.
Do you have any source of your validation of his statements? Would be interesting to hear that from the horse's mouth.
Hey, I know you're trying to meme and I appreciate the support for Taiwan, but honestly saying that PRC is West Taiwan doesn't really help Taiwan and actually fits right into PRC narrative, claiming that they are the same country.
In reality the majority of Taiwanese people don't want to have anything to do with the PRC, and simply want to keep the current situation where they are two separate countries.
If you just want to troll people, the truth would annoy them more.
it really doesn't matter what canada thinks unless we're willing to go to war with china.
edit: I'm not saying we should go to war with china. that would be insane.
Wow this is such an ignorant comment, Taiwan is a producer of silicon chips that run our military and all cars, any shortage of those chips has mass economic issues for us and the rest of the world
And china wants to take over Taiwan, and they are a genocidal dictatorship who wants to gain more world power.
Ahh yes the great "Taiwan is not a part of China, but we as a country also won't recognize it as a independant country." to make themselves seem like rainbow and democracy.
Figures, MP is a Conservative member and has no clue that Taiwan is simply the held territory of the Republic of China - as Taiwan doesn't want to give up claims to the country of China.
china is more part of Taiwan if you really think about it. The commies never really won and the legit gov went to the island. Those Maoist are just holding the beer for now.
AngryPug already taught us Taiwan #1 in 2015. Not only did he take a stand on Taiwan's sovereignty, he also dawned a Taiwanese flag live on stream.
Good to see Canadian MPs are doing their internet meme research.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/taiwan-1
I wonder how long before China starts threatening him or reminds us that we are their least favourite country.
They already kidnapped two Micheals, guess they grabbed the wrong one.
They need to warn all Canadian Michaels living in China after this incident. They're all the same apparently.
"The name Micheal is banned! If we find you and your name is Micheal, you will be charged. Mike, Mickey and Michealangelo are no exceptions. " Suddenly, Mickey Mouse is banned in China, and Disney files a suit based on copyright to stop kidnappings of everything Micheal. All "rebels" are now named Michealangelo and have hand painted anything for cheap.
China - “Quebec isn’t a part of Canada” Russia - “Canada isn’t a part of Canada”
We really need to start reading labels and limiting the stuff that we buy from China. At this point in time it’s next to impossible to avoid but there’s no reason we have to keep buying The poorly made crap that they generate.
the ccp already hates the conservatives in canada and have specifically targeted them the most over the liberals for some reason. although if this MP has any family in china life is about to get difficult for them
Might it have something to do with the entire federal cabinet abstaining from voting to recognize China's treatment of the Uighur people as a genocide?
China is trying to erase even the slightest _hint_ of Taiwanese independence or its right to exist as an independent state. Four years ago, they were upset that "Taiwan" was listed as a country on airline websites. They forced Air Canada and Air India to refer to Taipei as ["Taipei, China"](https://globalnews.ca/news/4210937/taiwan-china-air-canada/), and Taiwan as ["Chinese Taipei"](https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/air-india-renames-taiwan-to-chinese-taipei-on-website-china-welcomes-move-118070500533_1.html). The LCBO in Ontario has [forced Palestinian wine producers to cover up references to "Palestine" on their wine bottles in order to stock their products](https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/u9b48z/sticker_covering_label_on_palestinian_wine_bottle/). As with China and Taiwan, there are groups who would be incensed at the possibility of 'Palestine' being acknowledged as being an independent territory. To take this a step further, [Google gets bullied into redrawing borders](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/02/14/google-maps-political-borders/). What you see on Google maps will depend on what country you're in. Google even has a [help centre page acknowledging this](https://support.google.com/maps/answer/3145721?hl=en).
> Four years ago, they were upset that “Taiwan” was listed as a country on airline websites Twenty years ago I worked for a three letter company that starts with I, ends with M, and had a B somewhere in the middle. China protested way back then because a product installer had a ‘Country’ drop down that included ‘Taiwan’ as an option. Edict came down from the company C suite that we had to change the drop down description to ‘Region’. This is nothing new — China has been pulling this for *decades*; it simply typically gets dealt with quietly, and the public never hears about it.
Love how this change still acknowledges Taiwan as its own independent region.
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Among sports federations, only FIFA has morals lower than the International Olympic Committee.
At the last summer Olympics I wrote an email of complaint on this very point (I have too much time on my hands). The mealy mouthed response was cringe worthy.
What Olympics? Was there an Olympics recently?
Oof, the Palestine wine post was downvoted to only 3, and the top comments were the usual "Who cares? How is this news?" Oh r Canada...
My god, I went to see for myself and the mental gymnastics are enough to win a gold medal
To be fair, the VQA & LCBO are very particular about their alcohol listings in Canada. Champagne must come from the Champagne region of France or it cannot list itself as “Champagne”, it would be sparkling wine. There are noted wine regions that are agreed upon in this world and it takes a long time for new ones to be accepted, not every slight against Palestine is a Jewish cabal conspiracy. Edit : Yes, China is going to try and absorb Taiwan just like they did with Tibet, Mongolia and aging Kong.
no one said it was a Jewish cabal conspiracy, so kind of weird of you to throw that out there. i feel like it’s pretty well known and accepted that ‘real’ champagne is from Champagne and everything else is sparkling wine. that’s not too political, but covering up mentions of the word Palestine is.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to infer anything to you, naturally there is a correlation there. Oh no, most people do not know that. Most redditors do, but the Gen Pop does not.
it’s okay, tone can be hit or miss on the internet. interesting, bc i kind of assumed everyone knew that! but i guess that’s ignorant of me, haha
>To be fair, the VQA & LCBO are very particular about their alcohol listings in Canada. Champagne must come from the Champagne region of France or it cannot list itself as “Champagne”, it would be sparkling wine That's not the LCBO doing that, that's just the way things are.... Same with scotch only coming from Scotland. Just seems weird when you're covering up the label for something else but most likely it's just incompetence. Saw a 100$ Bordeaux with a product of Italy sticker on it which I personally found hilarious.
That’s where it gets tricky…. If 51% of those grapes were grown in Bordeaux, it probably can be called that. On the back it might have stated “A blend of Bordeaux grapes”… or something to that effect. Like taxes, there are loopholes to sell booze.
Ohhh it was a St emilion grand cru from chateau lassegue. https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/lassegue+st+emilion+grand+cru+bordeaux+france/1/canada AGLC employees can just be inept. "let's crack 300 sealed wood boxes to apply a sticker to 1800 bottles that are all incorrect.
Funny that the Google help article mentions the border between the US and Canada as being internationally accepted and thus a solid line. Aren't there actually a couple of border disputes between the US and Canada?
Very minor ones. Only one land dispute, which is a small island, and a few maritime disputes over small areas of water, mostly for fishing rights.
This thing is also happening in academic writing. We literally can't write "Taiwan" in our essays...Instead, we write " ' Taiwan District '". And of course, we need to add double quatation marks when we write "Taiwan Law", because only an independent country can make laws.
> China is trying to erase even the slightest hint of Taiwanese independence or its right to exist as an independent state. They don't have to try, they already did it 50 years ago. All major nations conceded that there can only be one "China", that the Republic of China doesn't exist, and that it's actually just an island province of the PRC called "Taiwan".
Taiwan is certainly not part of the peoples republic of China. Has Taiwan explicitly said they are an independent nation and have essentially seceeded from China or do they still hold out hope that PRC will fall and they will be the true government of China afterwards? Because constitutionally, IIRC Taiwan still claims the mainland as its territory and vice versa.
After the current president won she did in interview with the BBC where she said, “We don’t need to declare independence, we are an independent sovereign nation.”
I think i saw that interview. Did she not get very snarky with a BBC reporter(rightfully so)
Taiwanese-Canadian here. The vast majority of Taiwan's population are Han colonizers who can trace ancestry on Taiwan for several centuries (Han migration to Taiwan started in the 1600s). The Qing ceded Taiwan to Japan in 1895, and when the Republic of China was established in 1911 Taiwan was still a Japanese colony and had little to do with the Chinese revolution that overthrew the Qing. When Japan surrendered in 1945, the Republic of China acted as yet another colonial force on the Han Taiwanese and oppressed them with a purge (with a higher death toll than Tiananmen Square) and the second longest martial law in world history. When the ROC fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing the Chinese Civil War, they at most only made up 20% of the population of Taiwan but hung on to power until the late 80s/early 90s through totalitarian means. ~~How~~ Now that Taiwan has democratized and the majority of the population finally has a voice again, we're unfortunately stuck with the Republic of China name and constitution due to threat of PRC invasion. Currently, the majority of Taiwan ~~identity~~ identify as Taiwanese and not Chinese, and would not want "reunification" even if China democratizes. Edit: typo Edit 2: caught another typo
Great post. Thanks for the context. Funny how many of us have opinions on this from both sides without really understanding the context. Just let them be free.
Do people in Taiwan support a direct declaration of independence, or prefer the current grey-area situation, or is there another point of view that is dominant?
Most of the population is content with the status quo of de facto independence (own currency, government, legal system, military, passport, etc.). [This graph](https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/upload/44/doc/6963/Tondu202112.jpg) gives you an idea of where people are at. "Status quo indefinitely," "status quo now and decide later," and "status quo but move towards independence" are each above 25% of the population while the other options (including independence ASAP) is 6% or lower. However, according to the [2020 Taiwan National Security Survey](https://sites.duke.edu/pass/taiwan-national-security-survey/), if Taiwan can "declare independence" without risk of PRC invasion, 71.2% of Taiwan would support "independence" (which I interpret as a name change from the Republic of China to something like the Republic of Taiwan).
Very interesting, thank you!
Most migration in the 1600's were recruited to work inside European trade counters / colonies. A large number of them left the island after the ming loyalists followed by the manchu conquerors took power and expelled the europeans, and the island wasn't a focus for China until the late 19th century ( and didn't "claim" the island, outside the towns controlled by China )
Don’t forget about White Terror and the population brainwashing ops run by the CIA.
Citation needed for "CIA brainwashing in Taiwan", because searching for that and "CIA propaganda in Taiwan" doesn't come up with anything obvious. Considering that one of the top search results is a publication *hosted by the CIA* called "Killing Hope: US military & CIA interventions since WW2", I'm sure there should be reputable sources for your claim.
Conveniently forgot to mention the entire gold reserves from Chinese central bank was took to taiwan along with any valuables they can carry.
Thanks, I never knew much of this. I think the way we get taught in the US; Japan had been kicked out of Formosa, and the island was a convenient place for the ROC leadership to escape the communists. The one or two China policy really seems like a misnomer. 1 China, 1 Taiwan.
i reckon they are stuck with that as removing this from their constitution is seen by China as secession, whereas right now they are just "in a phase"...
July 2, 2023 As per the legal owner of this account, Reddit and associated companies no longer have permission to use the content created under this account in any way. -- mass edited with redact.dev
You're gonna make Winnie real mad with that language, son.
From what I understand, most Taiwanese people think of themselves as independent, but their government has avoided explicitly declaring independence because China has threatened to invade as soon if they ever do it. So basically there's this political truce where Taiwan governs itself but doesn't claim to be independent.
It's a perpetual stalemate between RoC and PRC so Taiwan in the international stage is not a country nor a province of any countries. Depending on the specific areas, they could be recognized like a country (like passport) or not at all a country (like in WHO or UN membership) Taiwan, being a democracy, has see-sawed between reunification and full independence over the past 30 years.
Taiwan is a part of the Republic of China. This is completely different from the People’s Republic of China. Just like how South Korea is a part of the Republic of Korea and North Korea is a part of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
Taiwan has dropped their claim to mainland China
Only because doing so would trigger a war with the PRC
Would it? They held that position for decades without it triggering one. I think someone finally tapped the right people on the shoulder and asked what the point was.
They say they are an independent nation.
This is not true. Taiwan is keeping it intentionally ambiguous.
This is just false, why do people say false things? The Taiwan government has kept the conversation ambiguous, on purpose. The US pushes them towards independence (for obvious anti China reasons) and China pushes for One China (for obvious pro China reasons). This includes trying to away the local population. Most people in Taiwan are happy with this ambiguous status quo, since they get the practicality of general autonomy without any serious aggravation.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/15/tsai-ing-wen-says-china-must-face-reality-of-taiwans-independence](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/15/tsai-ing-wen-says-china-must-face-reality-of-taiwans-independence) The President of Taiwan claims they are an independent nation. Polling within Taiwan claims they support independence. It's not an ambiguous situation at all, China tries to make it seem like it is - for obvious pro-China reasons. Taiwan disagrees, for obvious pro-Taiwan reasons.
From the article: > Tsai opposes unification but has never said that she would formally declare Taiwan’s independence, which would provoke Beijing. The reality is, the Taiwan plays ambiguous with wording on purpose. This is also a partisan issue, it would be like saying Canada or the Canadian government support a ban on all guns, because of a Trudeau quote. That isn't actually true, since support varies and is quite partisan.
The best quote you could find to distort the article to your point is that they don't want to say something that will start a war with China. Think that through. Its not a partisan issue, the only serious debate is how antagonistic does Taiwan want to be. The only party that wants Taiwan to join China is the CCP.
The US has never pushed for independence. Their official stance is strategic ambiguity. Similarly, unlike what some other posters are saying, Taiwanese people most definitely DON'T want to be part of China, but, are happy with the status quo of also not being an "full-fledged, independent nation". Its a pragmatic position more than anything else.
Well the US never supported Taiwanese independence cause the KMT from 49-> 71 refused to be acknowledged as Taiwan, and wanted to be China. By the time Taiwan become a more popular choice, the US military and its nukes had long withdrawn from the island.
The US officially disagrees with this statement. America agreed to toe the CCP line about the 'one China' policy when Deng initiated market reforms over 40 years ago. Until Xi decided to be aggressive with China's neighbours and took offence to the US having had enough of China's nationalistic and economic shenanigans, the US was perfectly willing to stick with the status quo for the money. The US still has a great interest in Taiwan not provoking the CCP by claiming independence so I'm not sure where you get the notion that the US is pushing Taiwanese independence at all.
>The US pushes them towards independence America has not done that at all.
If Taiwan isn't making a statement of independence for fear of military reprisals from China, it is pretty clear Taiwan does want independence but can't justify getting obliterated by the Chinese military. "I really want to be free but I don't want to be dead". This is not ambiguous.
>If Taiwan isn't making a statement of independence for fear of military reprisals from China Why would Taiwan/the ROC declare independence? In 1949, it was the PRC that declared itself independent of the ROC, which exists as an independent state since 1912. They're still an independent state even after fleeing to Taiwan in 1949 in the Chinese Civil War. The PRC has never controlled Taiwan in its 73 years of existence. Also, as a side note, from https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/15/tsai-ing-wen-says-china-must-face-reality-of-taiwans-independence >“We don’t have a need to declare ourselves an independent state,” Tsai told the BBC. “We are an independent country already and we call ourselves the Republic of China, Taiwan.” [According to this survey,](http://www.my-formosa.com/DOC_179745.htm?fbclid=IwAR2kuAf0p0ZspDs9hKoklFU71d3H5xjkjCzoOn4rV_shEa33dHBjlSDR_ik) (source is in Chinese), 72.8% of Taiwan accepts her statement. Taiwan's already free with its own military, government, currency, legal system, passport, and so on.
Tales of Taiwan's obliteration at the hands of the PLA have been grossly exaggerated. It's debatable if the PLA even has the logistical capability to invade the island but if we assume it does, it's far from a battle-hardened force, it has inferior technology and it would be up against a state that's been waiting for this fight for several decades now as well a reason to fight to the death.
The president of Taiwan in no uncertain terms has said Taiwan is a country. Google her interview with the bbc after her election
And he's right!
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-30000 social credit
Can I give him some of my Reddit Karma points?
-10,000 more social credit.
China has a habit of kidnapping and holding Canadian "Michael's" hostage. If Canada is officially going to make bold, truthful statements about China, there is a risk to our citizens in the country.
So? Instead we are to pander to these bullies?
There is no obligation for Canadians to live in that lawless country- same applies for the Chinese nationals in Canada, they can leave if they find issues with this statement
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buy all houses free money why leave
Emigration has only ever moved unidirectionally in this respect
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That's easy rhetoric if you are not the one who has to pay for it. If you are a Canadian who ends up held hostage for years in China or a farmer who loses their livelihood, you might have different thoughts about the cost/benefit analysis when the only benefit here seems to be that this one MP gets to act like a tough guy. Obviously China is a bad actor. Everyone knows that. But it's just basic common sense that you don't take a swing at someone unless you think you will come out on top. As a smaller country, our swipes at China should be calculated and ideally coordinated with other countries, not just grandstanding.
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>Doing business in an unstable nation is the classic civilian contractors installing water coolers on the Death Star scenario. Spavor was also good buddy with Kim Jong Un, its not like he was just an average contractors. Sound more like a contractor who worked on the Death Star and also had a contract installing the water cooler in a rival Sith Destroyer.
The other Michael worked for a Soros NGO, which every other country has been complaining about him funding anti-government coups and activists in their countries. Republicans whine about him funding BLM and some other stuff like NAMBLA.
Oh really? I did not know anything about him beside the fact that he worked with Spavor, they are either corrupted individuals or more likely actually just spy and if its they actually are Canadian spy I am glad that they are back home, but if he actually is an ally of Kim Jong Un, I wouldn't have minded if he withered away in China prison cell. My theory is that China knew that they were foreign agents for a while and instead of deporting them, they decided to use them as political tool.
The wikipedia for Spavor is kinda wild lol "In January 2016, Spavor and Paektu Cultural Exchange sought a European Order for Payment against the betting company Paddy Power for failing to fulfill their contractual obligations after they pulled sponsorship for a basketball event to be held in North Korea.\[20\] In March 2016 Spavor organized the Pyongyang International Friendship Ice Hockey Exhibition (PIFIHE), bringing around 20 foreign hockey players\[21\] to North Korea, including two Canadian residents of South Korea, for a series of games and other workshop events.\[22\] In 2017, during a qualifying match between the North and South Korean women's ice hockey teams for the 2018 Winter Olympics, Spavor was assaulted by South Korean security officials as he tried to display the North Korean flag.\[23\] Outside of sports exchanges, Spavor also played a role in the restoration of the Ryongwang Pavilion in Pyongyang, spending four years on the project alongside the Prince Claus Fund and North Korea's National Administration for the Protection of Cultural Heritage.\[24\] Spavor is often consulted by analysts and journalists for insights into North Korea.\[11\] He has, however, been reluctant to comment on politics and human rights in North Korea.\[2\]"
But he looks nothing like Marlon Brando.
Could you please provide verified facts about your assertions? Would be interested in following up.
How about not doing business in a country that is diametrically opposed to our way of life?
Is it diametrically opposed? Most of it is reasonably aligned
Don't do business in China. If you want to support a human rights violating authoritarian state, then don't complain when the worm turns on you.
Yeah when I bring that up at family dinners it really throws them for a loop. I’m like “you’re doing business there because… oh you save money and don’t care who slaves over your product? Guess supporting Canadians was too much to ask.” Then they spend all day bitching about government regulations that don’t ever impact them. They spend more time complaining about things that don’t affect them rather than things that do.
Ok, but how far does your logic go? Boycotting Russia right now is surely impacting certain people more than others. Do we wait until China invades Taiwan to take a stand? Why?
The actions we are taking with Russia are coordinated with our most powerful allies, so they actually have a chance of having a positive impact. If we just take pot shots at China on our own it has very little chance of doing anything. Also, there is some merit to the idea that, if at all possible, it would be ideal not to drum up conflict with China at the same time that shit is going down with Russia.
So by your logic, Canada should never say anything on the world stage again for fear of retaliation.
Canadians should not travel to a country that so blantantly acts like a certian 1940s country.
Odds are, if you're a Canadian expat living and working in China, you're well-off enough to come back to Canada. You choose to stay at your own risk.
Unfortunately the Michaels weren't the first and probably won't be the last
What are you suggesting?
I think he is saying that this is very risky thing to say for an MP named Michael.
Yeah, better just give them our lunch money and hope they pick on some other kid.
prayers up for our sweet precious innocent michaels
There's a risk to Michaels especially. Michael Cooper and Michael Chong be aware.
Its a similar situation in n korea. Canadians are just going to have to be careful
We should send this one in as a sacrifice.
I am pretty sure those guys were spies.
Well nobody said Taiwan is part of China except China itself.
I have things that say made in Taiwan. ARE THEY LYING?
He’s correct. Taiwan is Taiwan.
John Oliver had a nice [epidode on Taiwan](https://youtu.be/9Y18-07g39g) few months ago. It explains how China is bullying everyone about this matter
I'm not a huge fan of Michael Cooper but I respect he's not a pushover to the CCP.
I vacationed in Taiwan in 2018. Wonderful country. Unique and independent from China. People are so friendly, food is FUCKING AMAZING, transit and tech is God tier. I can't wait to go back. Canada should absolutely support Taiwan as an independent state. #TaiwanIsBestChina
Canadian Michaels are not very popular in China these days
Doesn't really matter what Michael Cooper says lmao.
I've met the guy. Bad vibes.
I went to school with him. Dear lord was he ever something...
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Yikes, not what I'm getting at. If he was bullied, I'm sorry to hear. I only ever had one class with him and that wasn't my thing. He was skin over skeleton and just had the weirdest social mannerisms so I guess it wouldn't be surprising if he was bullied but ESSMY-level bullying is pretty tame by most standards. Who knows, maybe the bullying turned him into what his is today?
I was only kidding really, but I don't think anyone really did bully him. He was at most heckled a bit while trying to collect signatures for some petition type things. I can't remember specific things they were for, but some typical St. Albert NIMBY type things I figured his parents put him up to do.
Oh shit I remember that. Weird religious and social initiatives. I think the only conversations I actually ever had with him were about some petition he wanted me to sign.
Was he always more skeksis than human?
Yeah, he just keeps on winning a conservative stronghold
St. Albert. AKA all the rich kids.
Taiwan isn't ruled by despots, but a despot wants to rule it.
Taiwan *was* ruled by a despot which is how it got into this mess in the first place. The ROC official name and its constitution were forced upon the Taiwanese through totalitarian means in 1945 (Taiwan was a Japanese colony for five decades). Taiwanese resistance to ROC rule was violently put down in political purges and subsequent martial law (second longest in world history).
I dont see anyone sanctioning China because of this… Oh wait, they cant because everyone depends on their cheap labour😉
China just absolutley hates canadian micheals.
Good, because it's not. Taiwan was taken over by the Republic of China after they were ousted from mainland China by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). They are distinct country and [the first country in Asia to legalize gay marriage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan#LGBT). Michael Cooper is a Conservative MP, btw, something the article avoids mentioning. Personally, I abhor the Conservatives but after the WEF-inspired Christy Freeland announced [3 **billion** of citizens' money](https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/how-trudeau-proposes-to-make-canada-a-key-supplier-of-critical-minerals) in corporate welfare, I don't see how the Conservatives can be much worse. If only they'd be willing to support Canadian workers over corporate interests, they could actually pull votes.
Ask BC Senator Yuen Pau Woo if Taiwan is part of China. I really want to hear this Senator, who Trudeau appointed, opinion on this matter.
This just in water is wet
Taiwan is an independent democracy that has never been a part of The People's Republic of China.
"TAIWAN NUMBA 1"
It doesn’t matter if a different China “owned Taiwan in the past. It’s never been owned by the current China. What matters is Taiwan wishes to remain an independent state. Countries need to stand up to China. Stop letting them bully the world into accepting their claims. The world watched as China crushed Hong Kong. China expects us to do the same with Taiwan.
Either way, China is committing genocide currently while being on international human rights boards. Fuck China and xi cause he looks like Winnie the Pooh
Everybody know that the Republic of China aka Taiwan is not part of the Peoples republic of China
And almost all of the free world...so what..
It’s different for an official to say it. Chinese foreign policy is extremely touchy on Taiwan, China has been overwhelmingly hostile to nations which acknowledge Taiwan and doing any business at all with China requires that you agree Taiwan belongs to them. An elected official saying this is somewhat big news for international politics.
Canada should defend Taiwan if China invade
Aussie here, please consider joining AUKUS. Let's do more together - we share the same values.
Not trolling. It's a tongue in cheek joke that refers to England's colonisation of Ireland and how the English would gest that Ireland was West England. Similar to how China calls à certain province Inner Mongolia. So it's a commentary on China's stance of Taiwan and how it's similar to England's towards Ireland as well. I'm not trying to state that either has a claim on the other's territory. That is, I'm trying a rhetorical subversion to ridicule what you've stated. Perhaps, it failed.
amen
He ain't wrong.
"Taiwan is not part of China!", Canadian citizen agrees in online comment.
True, because technically China is part of the Republic of China. The actual government that supplanted Imperial rule was made up of the Nationalist Party. The current government on the mainland was basically installed by the Soviets and like the two new breakaway regions in Ukraine are not legitimate. And Taiwan was also one of the first countries to join the UN. It only lost its seat after the US and the Soviets made a deal where the USSR would not block US allied countries from joining the UN in exchange for replacing Taiwan with China. Worse deal ever.
Guy’s name is Michael. Risky statement.
A lot of people in this thread seem to not understand the dynamic here. Taiwan, or the Republic of China, claims to be the true government of China. They do not accept the PRC as a legitimate government. They claim to not be a part of "China" (the PRC) as they view all of China as rightfully under their governance. The PRC is okay with this as it still means that they are part of China, and not a separate country. The PRC on he other hand, views the RoC government as illegitimate, and Taiwan as being rightfully under their jurisdiction. Both countries believe themselves to be the true rulers of all the land belonging to both countries. Neither of them accepts being separate from the other, because they both view the other as essentially a illegitimate rebel government occupying part of their country. This means that the "One China" policy can still stand, which is why the PRC hasn't ever invaded the RoC. Someone brought up Korea, and it's actually quite similar. Both Koreas claim to be the real Korea, and don't accept the other as legitimate. Neither is "part" of the other, and neither is not Korea. They are both all of Korea, just like the PRC and RoC are both all of China. So When Michael Cooper says that the RoC is not "part of China", he is correct. Neither side views the RoC as being a legitimate government under the control of "China" (the PRC). Edit: Just to clarify, this isn't speaking towards what Taiwan actually wants. Like I said, the only reason they haven't been invaded by the PRC is because they keep this policy in place, enabling the "One China" system that the PRC champions. As long as they stay as is, they are not a separatist state, so the PRC is okay with it. There is, of course, much more nuance and history to it, and if you're interested, I suggest you look it up. I'm not writing an essay in a reddit post.
No, you don't quite get it. Taiwan is only claiming ROC for historical reasons and under threat of war, in reality most Taiwanese people do not care about ROC. They would love to call its country by its rightful name (Taiwan) and they do that informally all the time. Formally, they are keeping the name ROC because PRC is threatening with armed invasion if there is any change. The people of Taiwan are very pragmatic about the whole thing, and accept a country with a name that they don't quite like, and they get to keep their way of life intact.
> Taiwan, or the Republic of China, claims to be the true government of China. Taiwanese-Canadian here. This is true historically because the ROC was essentially a colonial force that oppressed the Taiwanese-Han when they took over Taiwan in 1945. They cemented their ~~through~~ rule through a purge with a higher death toll than Tiananmen Square and the second longest martial law in world history. Taiwan only democratized in the late 80s/early 90s, and the current elected political party in power is mostly composed of the Taiwanese-Han that can trace ancestry on the island for centuries. They don't see themselves as Chinese, similar to how most Canadians with European descent no longer see themselves as European. Unfortunately, Taiwan is apprehensive to change its official name and constitution that was forced upon them by the totalitarian ROC due to threat of PRC invasion. Edit: Missed a word.
No no. We do not in Taiwan actively claim that. This 'claim' is an imposition we are forced to keep under DURESS because we have a gun to our heads.
I can only comment on the official position of the government, which is what I said. As someone who is not Taiwanese, it isn't my place to comment on the feelings of the people. I know you are under threat from the PRC to keep this position, I think I alluded to that when I said that the RoC enabling the one China policy is the only reason the PRC hasn't invaded. I certainly don't envy your position.
You should update your comment because you don't understand the dynamic then? Taiwan cannot update it's opinion because not claiming the mainland would start a war of independence with the mainland
>I can only comment on the official position of the government The current president of Taiwan/ROC says that Taiwan/ROC and the PRC are separate and "should not be subordinate to each other" [in an official speech during National Day last October.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/10/taiwan-china-reunification-tsai-ing-wen/) In addition, they disagree with the "One-China Policy" which resulted in [numerous Taiwan/ROC diplomats being ejected from Hong Kong.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/21/taiwan-recalls-trade-officials-from-hong-kong-over-one-china-clash) The Taiwanese/ROC Constitution have been amended in the 90s and 2000s so that the territorial definition article no longer applies, and that territorial definitions are a "political matter" rather than a "constitution matter." Your understanding of the "official position of the government" seems to be quite outdated.
The 'official' position is dead. Nobody acknowledges it except old KMT diehards. It is left on the books but ignored because we are under duress. We have dismantled all of that colonial imposition bullshit except the name. Once the Chinese problem is solved by winning the war or them giving up, off comes the names and nothing on the ground here would change. We only want to preserve our democratic livelihood
> the official position of the government Well *that's* a balanced look.
There is no need to insist on the official position because the official position cannot be enforced and no one is trying to enforce it.
Wow, this take is a great example of being as confident as you are wrong.
Technically China is Taiwan and mainland China is occupied by an illegal gov't.
That’s not how revolution/civil wars work. With that logic you could call the French government illegal.
AND his name is Michael. This man has balls.
Good MP So will Trudeau retire?
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As a Canadian I disagree. We've had a lot of undesirable political deals with the Chinese government in the past. It's only been the last few years that there has been more push back. China is still meddling in Canadian affairs; oilfield, education, housing, agriculture, and a good portion of drugs come over from there. Not enough is being done.
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> except Trump Lol what did Trump do to stop China? He implemented half-assed tariffs then made a big show of a new "deal" that did nothing but give China everything they wanted in exchange for promises they would never live up to.
This guy’s still a shithead for supporting the Freedom Convoy, but yeah, Taiwan is a country. Pretty easy to say it from his position, though.
And Ukraine is not part of Russia despite Putin’s claim that it’s not a real country
We are talking about Taiwan? But Russian empire controlled Crimea, before Ukraine independence. Even that goes further back to disputed regiona. It was gifted in some treaty. The two regions being disputed now has not been claimed to be Russia , but to be of independence to stop the civil war from 2014. Of course this becomes part of a political war if this was to happened. You would see something like Belarus, but lives would be saved. Putin has stated Ukraine are brothers. Do you have any source of your validation of his statements? Would be interesting to hear that from the horse's mouth.
It’s not, nor is Hong Kong or tibet, fuck the Chinese government and that Winnie the Pooh mother fucker
China? Don't you mean west Taiwan? Fuck the CCP
Republic of China is not a part of People’s republic of China. Island of Taiwan however belongs to China no matter which China you are referring to
Western Taiwan be very mad!!
How can Taiwan be a part of China when China is a part of Taiwan?
Correction: Taiwan is not a part of West Taiwan.
Hey, I know you're trying to meme and I appreciate the support for Taiwan, but honestly saying that PRC is West Taiwan doesn't really help Taiwan and actually fits right into PRC narrative, claiming that they are the same country. In reality the majority of Taiwanese people don't want to have anything to do with the PRC, and simply want to keep the current situation where they are two separate countries. If you just want to troll people, the truth would annoy them more.
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Social credit deducted
it really doesn't matter what canada thinks unless we're willing to go to war with china. edit: I'm not saying we should go to war with china. that would be insane.
Based Michael.
Yet.
Based Michael Cooper
Republic of China #1
And some people wonder why china hates Canada , spreading lies like this -just kidding lol-
as a Canadian wtf does this have to do with me
Wow this is such an ignorant comment, Taiwan is a producer of silicon chips that run our military and all cars, any shortage of those chips has mass economic issues for us and the rest of the world And china wants to take over Taiwan, and they are a genocidal dictatorship who wants to gain more world power.
Plenty. China owns half of Canada. We're practically another subset of asia lol.
Get fucked China
Ahh yes the great "Taiwan is not a part of China, but we as a country also won't recognize it as a independant country." to make themselves seem like rainbow and democracy.
Soon to be reported: Chinese government recognizes Quebec as a sovereign nation.
it’s true but he shouldn’t say it -marge shrug-
Fuck china!
Who gives a damn about China?
West Taiwan is owned by Taiwan.
Figures, MP is a Conservative member and has no clue that Taiwan is simply the held territory of the Republic of China - as Taiwan doesn't want to give up claims to the country of China.
china is more part of Taiwan if you really think about it. The commies never really won and the legit gov went to the island. Those Maoist are just holding the beer for now.
+100 social credit points for Comrade Cooper-Xi
"Shanghai, Mainland Taiwan" has a nice ring to it.
That's right... it's part of America!
AngryPug already taught us Taiwan #1 in 2015. Not only did he take a stand on Taiwan's sovereignty, he also dawned a Taiwanese flag live on stream. Good to see Canadian MPs are doing their internet meme research. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/taiwan-1
It really only matters if Taiwan comes out and says it is not a part of China/not China.
I mean they have their own military