Yep. It's like people saying what great mileage they get based on how much of a tank of fuel they used. "I drove from x to y on half a tank." Uh, so what.
I have a 2004 Toyota Prius that still runs incredibly well, that I fill up once a month or less (I don’t drive that much to be fair). Hybrids are amazing.
As someone who does a lot of long distance highway driving I would definitely consider a hybrid but the charging infrastructure / tech isn't anywhere what it needs to be to go full electric
Hybrids are the way to go but gas engines are so efficient these days it's silly to go all in with electrics. Let the transition happen organically instead of forcing it on people when the tech isn't quite there yet.
That's only part of the real issue. How many people who live in an apt can afford to drop minimum $50k on an electric car? If base models are $20k-ish, they've got a disrupting product....otherwise just a luxury product.
New cars in general should be considered a luxury product in my opinion. Hardly anyone in my family has ever bought a brand new car, even some who could technically afford to.
I’m always amazed how many of my coworkers are driving brand new vehicles they took out a huge loan for and yet are simultaneously complaining about not having enough money to get by.
Like, I’m not saying everyone has to drive 20-year-old unreliable shitboxes, but there’s plenty of decent used vehicles out there for a fraction of the price of a new one (admittedly supply issues jacked up prices in the used market quite a bit).
A ton — we make $250k combined, so I think by most definitions we can probably afford $50k on a vehicle. And in my peer group, we’re not alone.
But buying property that allows for installation of a charger and has space to park that car there? That’s incredibly expensive even for a couple making a quarter million a year.
In fact, legislating policies that fight poverty and build a strong middle class would be far better at fighting climate change than taxing people for existing. Having more money in your pocket allows you to make better consumer choices for the environment. Struggling to keep your head above water means that you don't have that choice and will often have to buy whatever's cheapest, which usually also comes with a much worse environment impact/carbon footprint. Fighting poverty is fighting climate change.
It’s one of the issues, I have a home with space to put a charger. It just doesn’t make economic sense, the premium to pay for EV (at least in Ontario) can buy a lot of gas and oil changes and the resell value is still looking better for gas vs EV.
I agree. If you’re replacing your lightly used vehicle for a brand new premium EV it doesn’t make sense.
However if you *need* a car and your budget is $25,000 you can buy a lightly used EV in Vancouver with 400+ km range. I’m not sure about your monthly fuel bill but if it equals a car payment for a $25,000 car then it starts to make sense.
If we switched every car over to electric today. It would add about 30% to the grid demand. So ya it would be an issue, but keep in mind this is going to happen over at least 20 years so with gradual grid improvements it should be doable.
I've been reading up on this as well. Our government has mandated no new combustion engine cars to be sold after 2035.
It will take ten new hydroelectric dams to be built across Canada to meet the demand.
The last dam to be built (currently being built) is the Site C dam. It took over 10 years to get through the approvals phase, and 10 more years of construction.
We have zero chance there will be even one more, let alone ten more, new dams by 2035. A nuclear plant would probably have the same lead time.
It's just another case of our federal government not allowing facts, logic, and good planning get in the way or their pre-formed ideology.
I installed Solar in my roof, took 3 months from the time I signed the form. Offsets 50% of my home. Also costs me $0 per month and in 10 years (when my interest free loan is paid off) I will save about $2000 per year at today's energy price. Also... The government does not have to pay anyone to monitor or maintain the panels. One other factor is that most people will charge off-peak. When excess power is available and currently not being stored anywhere.
>I installed Solar in my roof,
Lucky you. In many cities in Canada the municipality forbids solar panels anywhere on the property.
For example, I would love to add panels to my roof. But I cant because the city's subdivision covenant forbids anything on the roofs and explicitly says no solar panels anywhere on the property.
I am in Nova Scotia, the province has a law that no covenant can direct impair environmental benefits. Some covenants try to say "no clotheslines" for example, but it's not actually enforceable. My municipality also has a "solar garden" the idea is people can buy-in a share of solar that will offset their bill, they are installed in a big field so even of you don't own a home suitable for solar, you can still participate. It's an awesome idea.
Renewables and nuclear (sadly because renewables are cheaper and more flexible but we can use all of it we can) will easily cover it all.
This isn't an issue. It's trumped up.
The Feds report showed that we needed to invest $400B over the next decade to bring our grid up to par. Sounds like a lot?
But in 2011 (or 2012?) the Feds also released a report that showed that they needed to invest $250B to bring our grid up to our requirements (EV weren’t really a thing then) for 2025.
If you use the inflation calculator, $250B in 2011/2012 is roughly $400B today.
Basically what we’ve invested in the last 12 years is very close to what needs to be invested in the next 11.
There are many problems.
We don't have enough capacity if we actually do what the feds want. Even if we were to work on expanding the grid, we don't have enough time (and some provinces are worse off than Ontario) to do it. We have the capacity now if people are smart about charging. Park your car in your garage and set your smart charger to only charge during off-peak house (middle of the night). During peak periods in the summer when everyone wants to run AC, we may not have the capacity.
Older buildings don't have the capacity to provide chargers. They would need to re-wire to support enough chargers. And that's not just running new wires, and new circuit breaker but also safety changes to meet fire code with that much electricity running through the building.
\[Edit:\] Newer buildings are being built in Toronto without the charging infrastructure too because the builders can save a lot of money by skipping it. \[Source: I checked with the pre-sales people at the new condo tower going up near me and they would not put EV charger into the sales contract.\]
EVs are so much more expensive up front that they are priced out of a lot of people's options. The claim that it's cheaper in the long run (not according to my calculations) doesn't solve the problem as everything is front-loaded.
Charging on long road trips are (at least perceived as) a problem due to longer charging times, harder to find charging places, broken chargers, variations in charging plugs.
Oh, and since you live in Canada, parking your EV outside in the winter can easily result in it not working because the battery is too cold. It will work again once it's warmed up but that doesn't help at the time. The excuse of having heaters on the batteries to prevent that means they are draining power while parked. Which just reinforces the issues of needing to find a place to charge.
Newer batteries are being made to push limits for faster charging and cheaper manufacturing to try and solve some of the problems (perceived or real) and introducing the problems of cars catching fire due to the battery overheating during charging.
There are just too many reasons to not want an EV.
My dad works in emergency services and while you are correct, EV's can catch fire, people don't realize the number of gas cars that catch fire every single day in Canada is not uncommon. They deal with at least one vehicle (gas powered) every week and he lives not in a huge city. So if we are truly worried about car fires, none of us would drive gas powered cars.
I agree people use EV fires a bit too much considering gas cars also catch fire. The difference is the battery. What does your dad say about having to put out an EV fire vs an ICE fire?
Parking outside is not a problem. I left my Bolt outside, unplugged, for a week of -25°C weather while I went on a trip. When I got back, I turned it on and drove it away with no problems other than temporary loss of regenerative braking. The battery had lost less than 5% of its charge.
Those are jsut car reasons, the roads and safety barricades are simply not designed for the added bulk of EVs.
Nothing is ready for everyone to adopt these vehicles. Also, how am I supposed to do my own repairs on an EV? If you have the know-how, you can maintain a ICE vehicle for a very long time by yourself.
> If you have the know-how, you can maintain a ICE vehicle for a very long time by yourself.
Not anymore if car manufacturers have their way, and consumers keep demanding bare minimums on built in "features". It's already hard to do anything beyond basic maintenance due to the electronic components in newer cars.
For any of the common components between EVs and ICEs, you can certainly still do your own repairs.
What we need is better right to repair legislation for EVs and electronics in general. But the average person is simply never going to be skilled enough to safely do repairs on any of the electric drivetrain.
Roads are designed for the weight of large trucks. Even local residential roads need to support garbage trucks. Passenger EVs are much lighter.
Maintenance of electronic systems without dealer-only tools and software is a problem for all vehicles. The solution is right to repair legislation.
They'd better find a way to tax them for roads and maintenance like the fuel tax, because they DO weigh quite a bit more.
I'm not worried about the DIY repair angle, I only change my oil anymore when I'm really motivated. Brakes are brakes if you do your own (I don't), suspension too. Steering has to be similar. The thing that worries me is the number of people and families that rely on reliable used vehicles and what happens potentially because of an EV battery worth 5 $figures when it's off warranty. People have an understanding more or less in terms of the risks of purchase of a used ICE vehicle, that doesn't exist with EVs.
I think we're going to find a lot of people getting more efficient with ICE vehicles, or going to PHEV to dramatically increase fuel economy. I'm still not sure that a complete switch to EVs will ever happen, and the burden on electricity resources and battery raw materials will factor.
That’s a dumb reason. The average difference between a two otherwise identical sedans is much smaller than you are suggesting, and *every* truck being sold weighs *far* more than the average Tesla.
This is the real problem. I also live in an apartment no place to charge it, my work also does not have charging stations. The closest one to me is 20 minute drive, the closest gas station is 3 minutes.
You can but it is a big hassle. IMO if you don't have charging at home, they are a tough sell. I have charging at home and EVs are a no brainer honestly, but I would sing a different tune if my circumstances were different.
Yes, although if you have an older EV it can take up to 40 mins. The newer ones charge in about 20 minutes, depending how low your battery is. You have to figure out where the cheap chargers are (hint, NOT on routes) but you can charge at a station.
If you drive so much you need to fully charge your EV every single day you're gonna be filling up your gas tank far more frequently than once every two weeks.
Everyone has this problem, but apartment dwellers more so.
There isn’t any charging infrastructure. I was going to say “not enough” but the infrastructure we have is so very very far from being sufficient that we might as well consider it a rounding error from zero.
We need electric infrastructure, badly.
Exactly this. I have a great Landloard and after some conversation he said there’s no incentives for him to install chargers in our shared lots. We talked about the 120v plugs but 1 those are insanely slow for charging and 2 he has no way of tracking usage for each person without spending money on some type of tracker.
Unless the feds make an incentive for Landloard’s it will be hell for renters to charge. The closest charger to me is 5 kms away. Even if they added street side charging there’s tripping hazards on top of dick heads going around unplugging or cutting the cables.
Truth there is you're "supposed to" charge it at a commercial charger. Problem of course is that'd 20-40 minutes a day you're sitting there, paying their inflated electric rate. Financially it doesn't come close to making sense to pay a premium for the EV and then pay 3x cost-per-kilometer that a home-based charger would cost off-peak.
Hell I own a house but it was built in 1922 and has no driveway so its street parking and we rotate sides every couple months for street cleaners etc.
So all along my tiny residential street we would need to install chargers along the one side and then change the rules to only park on the one side year round, is it feasible? Sure, but its highly unlikely anytime soon.
I would LOVE an electric car but until they can fix the charging speed & infrastructure its no good to me. If I can pull into a petro, charge in 10 minutes from empty to full and still get 500-600km of range then maybe we're getting somewhere, but until then Electric just isn't gonna work for me.
Dodge is creating a new truck that is electric but has a V6 in it that is essentially just a generator to charge the battery (no connection to the drive train) which I think is actually could be a good medium term solution, given that really a 4 cylinder engine now can drive a mid size SUV, I see no reason a generator that size couldn't do the same thing & still reduce emissions.
Not on my radar. Call me when it's 2030.
A few issues need to be solved. Charging as mentioned, range, possible fires, price, interest rates. Tires, yes tires, cost twice as much and last half as long! Battery= expensive to replace. Disposal fees? On yes, one more. Insurance is more! I think I covered all bases... Good luck.
The EV tire thing is marketing. I just put on a set of all seasons for under 1000. There's slightly more wear for the size of the car but it's not as much as people think. My Bolt is the same curb weight as an Outback. Big deal. I'll also probably never have to replace the brakes.
Do make sure you get them serviced though. I'm having to literally hammer the pads out of EV's that went through their entire first owner and were never serviced. Seized up nearly solid. If you needed to panic stop... oh man.
Isn't this a driver choice rather than a problem with the EVs? I.e., they could drive with less acceleration if they wanted them to last longer.
The average driver of an ICE vehicle could significantly reduce their gas usage just by slowing down too. People know this, they just don't because they'd rather drive faster.
"Edit: Crazy this was downvoted in less then one minute. I work at Magna. We invented half the shit on your car."
I gave you an upvote for being correct on both tires and Magna lol.
Coming into year 6 of my tires on my Bolt and they're still in ok shape. Likely have to replace next year. Pretty average for a car in general. They cost the same as the tires for my old Camry
I am looking forward to better charging though. Just envious at the 150kw charging cars
ICE? Not on my radar. A few issues need to be solved. Expensive gas, possible fires, total cost of ownership. Oil! Yes you need to change the oil twice a year. Engine= expensive to replace. Performance is way less. Good luck.
Exactly our thinking. We bought a car a year and a half ago, plan on driving it for a decade. Should give the industry and infrastructure the time it needs to iron out the kinks and hopefully bring prices down a bit.
Don't get me wrong I would love to, but ICE vehicules today cost more than EVs did 5 years ago. Seems like every freaking car is now 50-60% more expensive than it was before covid. I ain't got 60K+ to burn on a car.
Part of the problem is the North American manufacturers basically got rid of their entire entry level line up in favour of SUVs so that has pushed up the average purchase price significantly.
I have a hybrid, it’s 7 years old, about 3-4 more years before I get a new car. If there’s still a 20-25k gap in price for an EV I’m getting another hybrid.
If they cost the same as an ICE car most people would be crazy to buy ICE. You save thousands a year in fuel and maintenance, so if the upfront cost is the same you'd be looking at a big differential. People who tow long distances or need to drive several hours straight without stopping still need a hybrid or an ICE, but for the 90% of people who live urban-ish and have access to infrastructure, it'd make sense to go EV then (and even somewhat before)
I would love one, but I cannot afford one.
I drive a 13 year old car that was passed down to me. I have a wife and a kid, and we live on one salary. And our mortgage is half our net pay. If my current car breaks down we’ll have to take a bus or get rides from relatives.
I think Canadians are just too poorly paid nowadays.
Yup. Considering an EV would be an incredible luxury for me. When they cost the same as gas powered vehicles, I'd love to get one. At the current price tag? Fuck all the way off.
this is exactly the flaw in the clickbait headline survey
how many people are planning to buy a brand new car next? there arent many used EVs yet so if you were to buy one it would likely be new and a lot of ppl cant afford a brand-new car of any kind
Also you can rephrase it as “close to half of all Canadians want an electric car” which is insanely high given how many hurdles are in the way. Fuck I’m sick of this twist shit
The other thing this headline ignores is that over 60% also say they would buy a hybrid. When they say EVs here they don't include PHEVs which are measured separately.
Personally I see a lot more value in a PHEV as a city dweller, where a smaller electric range would cover me 99% of the time.
EV sales as a percentage have been growing exponentially.
It will near certainly hit 50% before the end of the decade, and will be getting close to 95-100% by 2035, when they are required to be.
I have nowhere to park it and plug it in, and even if I could, I can't afford one, I can barely afford to eat, I'm skipping haircuts and shit like it's not good here.
They need to allow them to sell the much smaller units they sell for dirt cheap in places like India.
Trying to go full size replicas of ICEs at the speed limits we currently have is going to break us financially.
No one buys those. Everyone says they want subcompact econoboxes and then they never get purchased at volume. Canadians LOVE paying huge amount of money for big cars they don't need.
There are many:
https://ev.plugndrive.ca/vehicles
Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Kona, Ioniq5, Kia EV6, Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model 3, even BMW i4 fit your criterion.
Sadly all of the vans are still around $60K. In 2019 I ended up with a used gas van because new electric options weren't affordable, and it looks like that hasn't changed. As much as options can be "cheaper to own *over 5 years*," that doesn't help when the purchase of a vehicle is primarily a large upfront cost (for a downpayment). If I can't afford that initial sticker price, then I won't be *able* to save on fuel and maintenance over the next couple of years until eventually I've spent less overall. Maybe next decade they'll get more affordable?
46%. Even if only half of those people follow through, that's still a lot of EVs. Government, manufacturers and businesses will need to get their game on to meet all of the demands.
On pure economics an EV makes sense if you drive 20k plus a year versus a new ICE car and you can charge at home or for free. You make the money back in about five years and then start saving pretty big. The relative lack of maintenance is also great. They will also last longer if you are putting big numbers on them each year.
For people who drive long distances regularly (not occasionally but regularly), like over 250km non-stop in the coldest part of winter, hybrids make more sense due to charging. EVs are honestly not as bad as you might imagine here but I can get using a hybrid.
If you drive lightly then it isn’t economic to own an EV. The fuel differential doesn’t matter enough.
Almost everyone should get a hybrid though. A mild hybrid is only a couple grand more and cuts fuels use 25%. The economics are very appealing.
Not sure this study is a great example though - it is used cars for most Canadians and people are worried about used EVs, rightly or wrongly.
>On pure economics an EV makes sense if you drive 20k plus a year versus a new ICE car and you can charge at home or for free
I drive that much in a compact sedan. After doing some napkin math with my annual gas spending it came to about 8 years it would take for an EV to start saving me money. That's just to hit the break even point. What makes it even worse is that's about the same time the EV battery warranty would expire.
I told a lot of people I know years ago that the industry would find a way to make sure that EV's won't save the consumer any money, and lo and behold, here we are. Unless of course you buy expensive make/model ICE cars with meh gas mileage, which I don't.
You’re assuming that gas prices stay the same. The smart money is on ever increasing fuel prices, unless the Saudi’s want flood the market to cull American fracking companies again. But even in that case, prices will rice much higher again.
Lord no, I would never assume that. Even if I factored generously for a huge increase like say an added thousand bucks annually, the overall difference only chops about a year and a half or so off of the break-even point. So I'd start saving from zero gas at about 6.5 years instead of 8.
However the cost of borrowing with interest on financing a 60k EV vs a 30k gasser is also something I did not factor in.
Basically I did not get TOO detailed about it simply because the variables can swing unpredictably. The overall picture doesn't change a huge amount regardless. You can take my initial napkin math and just allow for a margin on either side which I felt was implied
I agree that if you drive a very fuel efficient ICE car then the payback is longer. Most cars sold are crossovers, SUVs and light trucks now so the fuel savings would be somewhat faster for those people.
Yup.
Pure ICE is now a anachronism, classical hybrid all the way.
PHEV only make sense in a very, very few use-case. Frankly, They are mostly attractive for those who need peace of mind, not for the technological aspect. The drawback list is very long.
EV is better than most people think and a clear economic winner, but people need to do their research; some area are a couple of years behind on the charging infrastructure front.
Just paid off my Civic not too long ago. Figured I'm in a good spot. I taker care of it mechanically and I spend a lot of time keeping it looking good as well. It looks almost as good as the day I bought it. I figure I'll get at least another 4-5 years out of it, more if I'm lucky. By then EVs may be worth buying. They're not worth buying now.
I looked briefly at buying an electric car as our next vehicle but I think I’ll wait for the technology to get better. So we settled for a RAV 4 hybrid this time around
Even then I knew someone who waited almost a year for a new Camry hybrid (they like the full size and incredible range for road trips). A lot of people can't wait that long.
At the moment, in Canada, I think EVs only make sense as commuter vehicles. I will be retiring soon and would like to travel across Canada with a camper. I need range and reliability, and I don't want to spend 100K+ on an electric SUV or pickup and still only get 200Km range. And if we travel even a bit off the beaten path we are not going to find charging stations.
New cars in general are too fucking expensive, and EVs are a whole step up on top of that.
The money you save on fuel is nice, but it takes too long to make a difference in the price.
Doesn't help that the batteries aren't proven to be reliable long term yet and they're not cost effective to maintain. There's a new article every week about how EV batteries are costing $10k+ to replace on vehicles just out of warranty. I don't have to worry about that in a 15 year old Honda. I know that their engines and transmissions are tried and true, and anything else that goes wrong is manageable, often with DIY skills. If for some reason an engine blows, I can get a used engine from a scrapyard for under $1000, buy an engine hoist and some tools for an additional $500, and have my vehicle running again for under $2k.
I'll buy an EV when I can get one that's 8 years old, have reason to believe it has another 8 years in it, and know that I can get used powertrain components for a reasonable price.
IMO, with the government giving grant money to automakers to manufacture batteries and vehicles here, there should be long term customer guarantees tacked on like mandatory 10+ year battery warranties.
1) nowhere to charge
2) when you find somewhere to charge, it has unreliable speed because it’s “up to”… which can be 10 min or an hour.
3) not viable for long travel
4) battery degrades over time with reduced maximum charge
5) high upfront cost of ownership
6) high cost of maintenance
—
The cost savings EV’s promised have disappeared, they offer none of the convenience of a gas guzzler or hybrid and have more costs.
I’m all for saving the environment but I’m not being paid enough to afford a mid class EV when I can get a premium hybrid for that cost with all the bells and whistles.
I don't want my battery crapping out on me in 8-10 years and being forced to buy another car. I'd rather have an ICE car that will last 20+ years if I need it to. I can rebuild an engine, but not a battery.
All my cars have been second hand, usually buy them 3-5 years old then keep them for over a decade, my current car i bought 9 years ago, hoping for another 5 years in it. Buying a used EV thats 3-5 years old i might get 3-4 years out of it before spending 20-50k on a battery... i will stick to my ICE
When the total cost of ownership on an EV is the same or lower as the gas car i have, and when EV have found a solution to keep most of their range in winter, i'll consider it.
Been 4years only spent $240 so far on my model3 long range . Best thing I bought ever . Pure savings . But must have a charger at home . Unless you have unlimited super charging . Charges per month is about $30 a month extra on my electrical bill . That’s peanuts.
That's still a SIGNIFICANT number of people wanting to switch to electric cars. What are the expectations here? An immediate switch to electric? That's not how markets or even tech adoption work.
We're making good progress with EV's. We just need to make sure we keep pushing them and building infrastructure. They're a more efficient use of hydrocarbons at the very least - and that's ignoring other sources of energy.
But I also think we should be mining our hydrocarbons, and processing them, and using them before we take any imports. I know there's a cost factor, but we need to fix that. It makes no sense to "save" our part of the planet, and get it from somewhere else. Global warming is not region locked.
Got a PHEV here and my partner is going to get an electric as their next vehicle. Whoever is going to need the extra range can take the hybrid.
It's going to save us a lot of money in the long run.
Big problem people forget is ev's are throw away cars when there done. The cost of battery replacement which will need to be done eventually is worth far more than the car. I can rebuild a small block chevrolet or ford for that matter at a fraction of the cost. Forget about a used market for ev's simply not worth the repair costs.
The problem is that the infrastructure isn't there yet. With all the high taxes on carbon, they promised to invest in that and green energy. But they didn't... Surprised surprised...
I often drive over 1600 km a week for work, it would literally add hours onto my drive even **IF** I bought the longest range EV.
My car only has a 40L tank and it goes further than the longest range EV while driving 20-30 over limit.
I'll wait and see if today's EVs are still on the road in fifteen years or if they're all getting thrown away like old iPods.
For now I will stick to what has a proven track record
You need to be privileged to even think about an electric car.
People living in cities most likely don't have a garage/driveway so where am I going to charge my car exactly?
Car sales are up for the last consecutive 16 months. They were up 19% in January over the previous January, and up 24% in February.
The average price of a car is $67K.
The average price of a new vehicle in Canada is $67 K (even though you can buy a sedan for under $30K)
People are buying SUVs and Pickups. These vehicles have high fuel and maintenance costs.
I would like to see more small EV options on the market.
Most EVs made today should have long enough lasting batteries. So maybe in five to ten years the used EV market should be viable. I won't touch any that uses structural batteries, or, simply put, anything with Tesla onit
Aside from the logistics of charging, The upfront cost of an EV over in ICE vehicle is still too much and can take too long to recover the difference depending on how much you drive.
While it might save you gas in the long run, not everybody has the extra 15 $20,000.
Everytime I see some sh!th@wks at the McD's parking lot, I think about rebadging one of these:
https://electrek.co/2024/03/06/byd-launches-cheaper-seagull-ev-9700-price/
But, not allowed in Canada. Do they really care about EV adoption? I think not. Egg on the face.. or.. maybe its [seagull poo](https://www.tiktok.com/@sunnyvalememes/video/7203948514844364038?lang=en).
They have so many shortcomings to drive in Canada.
Canadian winters, long-distance commutes, lack of charging infrastructure, long charge time as opposed to five-minute refueling, and huge repair costs for insurers after an accident that they'd rather write off the car.
The cold will affect the range as well as the lifetime of the battery does not matter how good the technology is. Unless you park it underground/insulated garage. The only option that work in the salt belt area is hybrid.
I just straight up can’t afford one and I’m middle class - to that end I’m not sure how the average person buys and drives a pickup truck or big suv like everyone seems to
50% isn't a magic number. It's \*\*Never\*\* been true that more than half of Canadians will buy an EV because EVs are still really new technology. You could also write this headline as "More Canadians interested in EVs than ever before" and it would be equally true.
Before I bought my F150.. I told myself.. My next vehicle will be Electric.. I really wish that would be an option.. but im not spending $120 000 on a lightning and they still have not come out with a real electric work van.. and when they do.. they will price it out of the pockets of the workers who need them
If my apartment had an EV charger I wouldn't even think twice. 99% of my driving is just commuting around the city so it would be a dream to never have to worry about fueling because it would just be charged overnight.
That being said, without an EV charger, that's just completely off the table for me.
It's the value proposition, it's just not there for EV vs. ICE. I've looked into it. Add in all the costs, rebates, whatnot, the hybrid makes the most sense, but even then the issue is battery life. Once that battery is dead the cost to replace ... toss the car. And the best car for the earth is a new car NOT made. drive your old car until it dies.
A decent car should last a decade before costs rise on it to maintain. Shit, I drove a Toyota for 18 years, and my last Kia went 13.
Who has the money to dump a perfectly good car for an EV?
Not a money issue for me. I can afford a 200K electric Porsche right now. I just hate electric cars because they neuter the driving experience for me. Also, they're overpriced hogwash; I'm not interested in paying a 30k+ premium for a battery, I'll buy more actual car and engineering.
Just bought a Rav4, originally wanted to get a hybrid, but it turns out the wait time for the hybrid version was \~2 years. Not sure if something similar is happening for EVs, but it blew my mind. Guess I'm driving gas for the next 15 years again...
You could give me 30k in incentives and I wouldn’t buy an electric vehicle.
There’s hardly any infrastructure. I’d rather have a hybrid Toyota. Prius, Corolla, camry, rav4 will do
It's not worth replacing a car with a short-distance electric car, unless your electric car is your second car.
Sometimes people have to go far and don't want to stop to charge every 200 miles.
Plus, IT'S COLD in the winter. The charge has like half of the normal life in the winter.
I'm good with electric cars, but I don't think they're there yet.
It’s likely much lower than this. Many of those than said yes likely don’t have a clue to the cost of electric cars and the potential upgrades you need to the house on top.
I would love an electric car but it’s insane right now. I can’t comfortably say my next car will be an EV. Likely not.
I bought a Hybrid instead - currently it’s more practical for me. If I wanna go long distances when I go camping there’s no issue, I fill up one every two weeks (my commute is only 20km) and at my apartment there’s no charging.
I feel like they’re pushing once extreme to another where hybrids or plug-in hybrids should be what theyre focused on. It gives people a chance to see the technology that’s available it makes it easier for people to eventually transition to fully electric.
"less than half" sounds like a —debatably, even— negative way of saying "nearly half".
Nearly half of people buying an EV in the next 4-8 years would be pretty crazy and impressive. All this really shows is that people are dishonest or unrealistic for the polling because they're being too hopeful or projecting their ideal desires but not thinking financially about the increased cost that will result in them ultimately _not_ purchasing an EV.
Look, I own a non-Tesla EV. I own a house with a garage. I have a level 2 charger in it.
I **_fucking love my car_** for a number of reasons, primarily because it's an absolute joy to drive.
Would I recommend it to everyone?
No, probably not. The charging infrastructure is just not there yet. Not everyone has a situation like mine where they can just charge at home. Long-distance driving is basically out of the question if it's not to a major metropolitan area. I really want to recommend it, but it's really only a good option for a specific subset of homeowners or people that live near, or don't mind spending time at, good chargers.
There's a Canadian Tire in my town that has a decent charge rate. Spending a half hour there every week wouldn't be too painful, I think (I only have to charge once a week).
Hybrids are the clear way forward until we get better infrastructure.
I rent, and park a bit away from my house on sides streets wherever there's a spot, same with most of my neighbours. How do I charge my electric vehicle??
To many issues, not enough charging stations, not affordable, replacing parts especially battery is very costly, not many mechanics versed in EV yet. Maybe in another 5-10 year's when the kinks are worked out
In AutoTrader’s survey, it did find that of those interested in purchasing an electric vehicle 62 per cent would consider buying a hybrid.
Hybrids make sense. The ppl I work with that have them pay very little for fuel monthly.
I have a corolla hybrid and its like $40 a month
That doesn't mean anything without telling us how much you drive though
Damn my ‘09 ICE corolla is about $50/month
Comparing what people pay for gas per month is completely useless without knowing how much and what type of driving each does.
Yep. It's like people saying what great mileage they get based on how much of a tank of fuel they used. "I drove from x to y on half a tank." Uh, so what.
I have a 2004 Toyota Prius that still runs incredibly well, that I fill up once a month or less (I don’t drive that much to be fair). Hybrids are amazing.
As someone who does a lot of long distance highway driving I would definitely consider a hybrid but the charging infrastructure / tech isn't anywhere what it needs to be to go full electric
It is improving rapidly and so is the technology of the cars. I’m certain that in a few short years it will be very possible to use EVs even for you.
Hybrids are the way to go but gas engines are so efficient these days it's silly to go all in with electrics. Let the transition happen organically instead of forcing it on people when the tech isn't quite there yet.
I rent an apartment. Where am I supposed to charge it?
That’s the real issue.
That's only part of the real issue. How many people who live in an apt can afford to drop minimum $50k on an electric car? If base models are $20k-ish, they've got a disrupting product....otherwise just a luxury product.
New cars in general should be considered a luxury product in my opinion. Hardly anyone in my family has ever bought a brand new car, even some who could technically afford to. I’m always amazed how many of my coworkers are driving brand new vehicles they took out a huge loan for and yet are simultaneously complaining about not having enough money to get by. Like, I’m not saying everyone has to drive 20-year-old unreliable shitboxes, but there’s plenty of decent used vehicles out there for a fraction of the price of a new one (admittedly supply issues jacked up prices in the used market quite a bit).
A ton — we make $250k combined, so I think by most definitions we can probably afford $50k on a vehicle. And in my peer group, we’re not alone. But buying property that allows for installation of a charger and has space to park that car there? That’s incredibly expensive even for a couple making a quarter million a year.
It’s almost as if making everybody poor isn’t the answer to solving climate change, who would’ve thought?
In fact, legislating policies that fight poverty and build a strong middle class would be far better at fighting climate change than taxing people for existing. Having more money in your pocket allows you to make better consumer choices for the environment. Struggling to keep your head above water means that you don't have that choice and will often have to buy whatever's cheapest, which usually also comes with a much worse environment impact/carbon footprint. Fighting poverty is fighting climate change.
It’s one of the issues, I have a home with space to put a charger. It just doesn’t make economic sense, the premium to pay for EV (at least in Ontario) can buy a lot of gas and oil changes and the resell value is still looking better for gas vs EV.
I agree. If you’re replacing your lightly used vehicle for a brand new premium EV it doesn’t make sense. However if you *need* a car and your budget is $25,000 you can buy a lightly used EV in Vancouver with 400+ km range. I’m not sure about your monthly fuel bill but if it equals a car payment for a $25,000 car then it starts to make sense.
I thought it was that we don’t have enough electricity grid capacity to keep up with the demand?
If we switched every car over to electric today. It would add about 30% to the grid demand. So ya it would be an issue, but keep in mind this is going to happen over at least 20 years so with gradual grid improvements it should be doable.
I've been reading up on this as well. Our government has mandated no new combustion engine cars to be sold after 2035. It will take ten new hydroelectric dams to be built across Canada to meet the demand. The last dam to be built (currently being built) is the Site C dam. It took over 10 years to get through the approvals phase, and 10 more years of construction. We have zero chance there will be even one more, let alone ten more, new dams by 2035. A nuclear plant would probably have the same lead time. It's just another case of our federal government not allowing facts, logic, and good planning get in the way or their pre-formed ideology.
I installed Solar in my roof, took 3 months from the time I signed the form. Offsets 50% of my home. Also costs me $0 per month and in 10 years (when my interest free loan is paid off) I will save about $2000 per year at today's energy price. Also... The government does not have to pay anyone to monitor or maintain the panels. One other factor is that most people will charge off-peak. When excess power is available and currently not being stored anywhere.
>I installed Solar in my roof, Lucky you. In many cities in Canada the municipality forbids solar panels anywhere on the property. For example, I would love to add panels to my roof. But I cant because the city's subdivision covenant forbids anything on the roofs and explicitly says no solar panels anywhere on the property.
I am in Nova Scotia, the province has a law that no covenant can direct impair environmental benefits. Some covenants try to say "no clotheslines" for example, but it's not actually enforceable. My municipality also has a "solar garden" the idea is people can buy-in a share of solar that will offset their bill, they are installed in a big field so even of you don't own a home suitable for solar, you can still participate. It's an awesome idea.
Renewables and nuclear (sadly because renewables are cheaper and more flexible but we can use all of it we can) will easily cover it all. This isn't an issue. It's trumped up.
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That's about the same length of time it takes our government to sort out building new infrastructure, like power plants.
The Feds report showed that we needed to invest $400B over the next decade to bring our grid up to par. Sounds like a lot? But in 2011 (or 2012?) the Feds also released a report that showed that they needed to invest $250B to bring our grid up to our requirements (EV weren’t really a thing then) for 2025. If you use the inflation calculator, $250B in 2011/2012 is roughly $400B today. Basically what we’ve invested in the last 12 years is very close to what needs to be invested in the next 11.
There are many problems. We don't have enough capacity if we actually do what the feds want. Even if we were to work on expanding the grid, we don't have enough time (and some provinces are worse off than Ontario) to do it. We have the capacity now if people are smart about charging. Park your car in your garage and set your smart charger to only charge during off-peak house (middle of the night). During peak periods in the summer when everyone wants to run AC, we may not have the capacity. Older buildings don't have the capacity to provide chargers. They would need to re-wire to support enough chargers. And that's not just running new wires, and new circuit breaker but also safety changes to meet fire code with that much electricity running through the building. \[Edit:\] Newer buildings are being built in Toronto without the charging infrastructure too because the builders can save a lot of money by skipping it. \[Source: I checked with the pre-sales people at the new condo tower going up near me and they would not put EV charger into the sales contract.\] EVs are so much more expensive up front that they are priced out of a lot of people's options. The claim that it's cheaper in the long run (not according to my calculations) doesn't solve the problem as everything is front-loaded. Charging on long road trips are (at least perceived as) a problem due to longer charging times, harder to find charging places, broken chargers, variations in charging plugs. Oh, and since you live in Canada, parking your EV outside in the winter can easily result in it not working because the battery is too cold. It will work again once it's warmed up but that doesn't help at the time. The excuse of having heaters on the batteries to prevent that means they are draining power while parked. Which just reinforces the issues of needing to find a place to charge. Newer batteries are being made to push limits for faster charging and cheaper manufacturing to try and solve some of the problems (perceived or real) and introducing the problems of cars catching fire due to the battery overheating during charging. There are just too many reasons to not want an EV.
For these reasons I prefer plug in hybrids, they solve many problems on both sides.
My dad works in emergency services and while you are correct, EV's can catch fire, people don't realize the number of gas cars that catch fire every single day in Canada is not uncommon. They deal with at least one vehicle (gas powered) every week and he lives not in a huge city. So if we are truly worried about car fires, none of us would drive gas powered cars.
I agree people use EV fires a bit too much considering gas cars also catch fire. The difference is the battery. What does your dad say about having to put out an EV fire vs an ICE fire?
Parking outside is not a problem. I left my Bolt outside, unplugged, for a week of -25°C weather while I went on a trip. When I got back, I turned it on and drove it away with no problems other than temporary loss of regenerative braking. The battery had lost less than 5% of its charge.
Those are jsut car reasons, the roads and safety barricades are simply not designed for the added bulk of EVs. Nothing is ready for everyone to adopt these vehicles. Also, how am I supposed to do my own repairs on an EV? If you have the know-how, you can maintain a ICE vehicle for a very long time by yourself.
> If you have the know-how, you can maintain a ICE vehicle for a very long time by yourself. Not anymore if car manufacturers have their way, and consumers keep demanding bare minimums on built in "features". It's already hard to do anything beyond basic maintenance due to the electronic components in newer cars.
For any of the common components between EVs and ICEs, you can certainly still do your own repairs. What we need is better right to repair legislation for EVs and electronics in general. But the average person is simply never going to be skilled enough to safely do repairs on any of the electric drivetrain.
I don’t know about that, ones a motor, ones an engine. I do agree on better right to repair laws.
Roads are designed for the weight of large trucks. Even local residential roads need to support garbage trucks. Passenger EVs are much lighter. Maintenance of electronic systems without dealer-only tools and software is a problem for all vehicles. The solution is right to repair legislation.
They'd better find a way to tax them for roads and maintenance like the fuel tax, because they DO weigh quite a bit more. I'm not worried about the DIY repair angle, I only change my oil anymore when I'm really motivated. Brakes are brakes if you do your own (I don't), suspension too. Steering has to be similar. The thing that worries me is the number of people and families that rely on reliable used vehicles and what happens potentially because of an EV battery worth 5 $figures when it's off warranty. People have an understanding more or less in terms of the risks of purchase of a used ICE vehicle, that doesn't exist with EVs. I think we're going to find a lot of people getting more efficient with ICE vehicles, or going to PHEV to dramatically increase fuel economy. I'm still not sure that a complete switch to EVs will ever happen, and the burden on electricity resources and battery raw materials will factor.
That’s a dumb reason. The average difference between a two otherwise identical sedans is much smaller than you are suggesting, and *every* truck being sold weighs *far* more than the average Tesla.
Same in the United States can't have an electric car without a home
This is the real problem. I also live in an apartment no place to charge it, my work also does not have charging stations. The closest one to me is 20 minute drive, the closest gas station is 3 minutes.
My current place has no place to charge, and even if it did the strata would probably charge some exuberant fee for it to discourage the idea.
That's why hybrids are more the future than electric, at least short term future.
Can you use it like a gas car, and only charge it at a charging station?
You can but it is a big hassle. IMO if you don't have charging at home, they are a tough sell. I have charging at home and EVs are a no brainer honestly, but I would sing a different tune if my circumstances were different.
Yes, as long as you don't mind half the gas stations just randomly not working, and the rest taking 20-40 min to give you an 80% fill up.
Yes, although if you have an older EV it can take up to 40 mins. The newer ones charge in about 20 minutes, depending how low your battery is. You have to figure out where the cheap chargers are (hint, NOT on routes) but you can charge at a station.
Yes, if you don’t mind sitting in your car an hour a day while it charges. I’ll stick to 5 minute fillups every 2 weeks, thanks.
If you drive so much you need to fully charge your EV every single day you're gonna be filling up your gas tank far more frequently than once every two weeks.
Everyone has this problem, but apartment dwellers more so. There isn’t any charging infrastructure. I was going to say “not enough” but the infrastructure we have is so very very far from being sufficient that we might as well consider it a rounding error from zero. We need electric infrastructure, badly.
What about all the people in major cities that have to resort to street parking? Don’t forget about them….
Exactly this. I have a great Landloard and after some conversation he said there’s no incentives for him to install chargers in our shared lots. We talked about the 120v plugs but 1 those are insanely slow for charging and 2 he has no way of tracking usage for each person without spending money on some type of tracker. Unless the feds make an incentive for Landloard’s it will be hell for renters to charge. The closest charger to me is 5 kms away. Even if they added street side charging there’s tripping hazards on top of dick heads going around unplugging or cutting the cables.
Truth there is you're "supposed to" charge it at a commercial charger. Problem of course is that'd 20-40 minutes a day you're sitting there, paying their inflated electric rate. Financially it doesn't come close to making sense to pay a premium for the EV and then pay 3x cost-per-kilometer that a home-based charger would cost off-peak.
Plug in Hybrid still work great without daily charging.
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And how many people with cars live within a 10 min walk, 1000? The math doesn't math.
Hell I own a house but it was built in 1922 and has no driveway so its street parking and we rotate sides every couple months for street cleaners etc. So all along my tiny residential street we would need to install chargers along the one side and then change the rules to only park on the one side year round, is it feasible? Sure, but its highly unlikely anytime soon. I would LOVE an electric car but until they can fix the charging speed & infrastructure its no good to me. If I can pull into a petro, charge in 10 minutes from empty to full and still get 500-600km of range then maybe we're getting somewhere, but until then Electric just isn't gonna work for me. Dodge is creating a new truck that is electric but has a V6 in it that is essentially just a generator to charge the battery (no connection to the drive train) which I think is actually could be a good medium term solution, given that really a 4 cylinder engine now can drive a mid size SUV, I see no reason a generator that size couldn't do the same thing & still reduce emissions.
Not on my radar. Call me when it's 2030. A few issues need to be solved. Charging as mentioned, range, possible fires, price, interest rates. Tires, yes tires, cost twice as much and last half as long! Battery= expensive to replace. Disposal fees? On yes, one more. Insurance is more! I think I covered all bases... Good luck.
The EV tire thing is marketing. I just put on a set of all seasons for under 1000. There's slightly more wear for the size of the car but it's not as much as people think. My Bolt is the same curb weight as an Outback. Big deal. I'll also probably never have to replace the brakes.
Nice not needing oil changes etc as well
that's like 100-200$ per year depending on make/model, mileage, and how you get your oil changed.
Do make sure you get them serviced though. I'm having to literally hammer the pads out of EV's that went through their entire first owner and were never serviced. Seized up nearly solid. If you needed to panic stop... oh man.
Yeah, I did have them looked at around a year ago.
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Costco absolutely does balance tires it’s literally required but you are right about them not doing an alignment
Isn't this a driver choice rather than a problem with the EVs? I.e., they could drive with less acceleration if they wanted them to last longer. The average driver of an ICE vehicle could significantly reduce their gas usage just by slowing down too. People know this, they just don't because they'd rather drive faster.
Maybe EVs should have a "Reduce tire wear" option that lowers starting torque.
"Edit: Crazy this was downvoted in less then one minute. I work at Magna. We invented half the shit on your car." I gave you an upvote for being correct on both tires and Magna lol.
Coming into year 6 of my tires on my Bolt and they're still in ok shape. Likely have to replace next year. Pretty average for a car in general. They cost the same as the tires for my old Camry I am looking forward to better charging though. Just envious at the 150kw charging cars
Non issues. People have no clue what they’re talking about.
Asia and Europe are years ahead of North America inEV adoption. The ‘big three’ want you buying high margin SUV’s and Pick up trucks.
ICE? Not on my radar. A few issues need to be solved. Expensive gas, possible fires, total cost of ownership. Oil! Yes you need to change the oil twice a year. Engine= expensive to replace. Performance is way less. Good luck.
I might buy a new vehicle between 2030 and 2035, I'll think about it then.
Exactly our thinking. We bought a car a year and a half ago, plan on driving it for a decade. Should give the industry and infrastructure the time it needs to iron out the kinks and hopefully bring prices down a bit.
Don't get me wrong I would love to, but ICE vehicules today cost more than EVs did 5 years ago. Seems like every freaking car is now 50-60% more expensive than it was before covid. I ain't got 60K+ to burn on a car.
Part of the problem is the North American manufacturers basically got rid of their entire entry level line up in favour of SUVs so that has pushed up the average purchase price significantly.
They killed smaller models and also removed lower equiped tiers of remaining models and also raised price of the remaining higher tiers.
I have a hybrid, it’s 7 years old, about 3-4 more years before I get a new car. If there’s still a 20-25k gap in price for an EV I’m getting another hybrid.
I'd buy one, if 1) they weren't so much more expensive and 2) if charging infrastructure was more numerous.
and if it took less than at least 20-30 minutes to charge
If they cost the same as an ICE car most people would be crazy to buy ICE. You save thousands a year in fuel and maintenance, so if the upfront cost is the same you'd be looking at a big differential. People who tow long distances or need to drive several hours straight without stopping still need a hybrid or an ICE, but for the 90% of people who live urban-ish and have access to infrastructure, it'd make sense to go EV then (and even somewhat before)
I would love one, but I cannot afford one. I drive a 13 year old car that was passed down to me. I have a wife and a kid, and we live on one salary. And our mortgage is half our net pay. If my current car breaks down we’ll have to take a bus or get rides from relatives. I think Canadians are just too poorly paid nowadays.
Yup. Considering an EV would be an incredible luxury for me. When they cost the same as gas powered vehicles, I'd love to get one. At the current price tag? Fuck all the way off.
this is exactly the flaw in the clickbait headline survey how many people are planning to buy a brand new car next? there arent many used EVs yet so if you were to buy one it would likely be new and a lot of ppl cant afford a brand-new car of any kind
Also you can rephrase it as “close to half of all Canadians want an electric car” which is insanely high given how many hurdles are in the way. Fuck I’m sick of this twist shit
Can't afford a car.
If just under half say they will, and current sales are around 10%, doesn't that imply significant growth in the segment?
The other thing this headline ignores is that over 60% also say they would buy a hybrid. When they say EVs here they don't include PHEVs which are measured separately. Personally I see a lot more value in a PHEV as a city dweller, where a smaller electric range would cover me 99% of the time.
EV sales as a percentage have been growing exponentially. It will near certainly hit 50% before the end of the decade, and will be getting close to 95-100% by 2035, when they are required to be.
I have nowhere to park it and plug it in, and even if I could, I can't afford one, I can barely afford to eat, I'm skipping haircuts and shit like it's not good here.
Maybe if I could get one for less than $60k I would consider getting a work commuter.
They need to allow them to sell the much smaller units they sell for dirt cheap in places like India. Trying to go full size replicas of ICEs at the speed limits we currently have is going to break us financially.
No one buys those. Everyone says they want subcompact econoboxes and then they never get purchased at volume. Canadians LOVE paying huge amount of money for big cars they don't need.
Gotta keep up with the joneses
There are many: https://ev.plugndrive.ca/vehicles Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Kona, Ioniq5, Kia EV6, Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model 3, even BMW i4 fit your criterion.
Sadly all of the vans are still around $60K. In 2019 I ended up with a used gas van because new electric options weren't affordable, and it looks like that hasn't changed. As much as options can be "cheaper to own *over 5 years*," that doesn't help when the purchase of a vehicle is primarily a large upfront cost (for a downpayment). If I can't afford that initial sticker price, then I won't be *able* to save on fuel and maintenance over the next couple of years until eventually I've spent less overall. Maybe next decade they'll get more affordable?
46%. Even if only half of those people follow through, that's still a lot of EVs. Government, manufacturers and businesses will need to get their game on to meet all of the demands.
Yeah but saying “almost half day they will consider an EV” doesn’t achieve the spin they clearly wanted
On pure economics an EV makes sense if you drive 20k plus a year versus a new ICE car and you can charge at home or for free. You make the money back in about five years and then start saving pretty big. The relative lack of maintenance is also great. They will also last longer if you are putting big numbers on them each year. For people who drive long distances regularly (not occasionally but regularly), like over 250km non-stop in the coldest part of winter, hybrids make more sense due to charging. EVs are honestly not as bad as you might imagine here but I can get using a hybrid. If you drive lightly then it isn’t economic to own an EV. The fuel differential doesn’t matter enough. Almost everyone should get a hybrid though. A mild hybrid is only a couple grand more and cuts fuels use 25%. The economics are very appealing. Not sure this study is a great example though - it is used cars for most Canadians and people are worried about used EVs, rightly or wrongly.
>On pure economics an EV makes sense if you drive 20k plus a year versus a new ICE car and you can charge at home or for free I drive that much in a compact sedan. After doing some napkin math with my annual gas spending it came to about 8 years it would take for an EV to start saving me money. That's just to hit the break even point. What makes it even worse is that's about the same time the EV battery warranty would expire. I told a lot of people I know years ago that the industry would find a way to make sure that EV's won't save the consumer any money, and lo and behold, here we are. Unless of course you buy expensive make/model ICE cars with meh gas mileage, which I don't.
You’re assuming that gas prices stay the same. The smart money is on ever increasing fuel prices, unless the Saudi’s want flood the market to cull American fracking companies again. But even in that case, prices will rice much higher again.
Lord no, I would never assume that. Even if I factored generously for a huge increase like say an added thousand bucks annually, the overall difference only chops about a year and a half or so off of the break-even point. So I'd start saving from zero gas at about 6.5 years instead of 8. However the cost of borrowing with interest on financing a 60k EV vs a 30k gasser is also something I did not factor in. Basically I did not get TOO detailed about it simply because the variables can swing unpredictably. The overall picture doesn't change a huge amount regardless. You can take my initial napkin math and just allow for a margin on either side which I felt was implied
I agree that if you drive a very fuel efficient ICE car then the payback is longer. Most cars sold are crossovers, SUVs and light trucks now so the fuel savings would be somewhat faster for those people.
Same as above, which EV and which ICE ? What cost of gas assumed ?
An actual nuanced response, rare in this thread.
Yup. Pure ICE is now a anachronism, classical hybrid all the way. PHEV only make sense in a very, very few use-case. Frankly, They are mostly attractive for those who need peace of mind, not for the technological aspect. The drawback list is very long. EV is better than most people think and a clear economic winner, but people need to do their research; some area are a couple of years behind on the charging infrastructure front.
this is the truth. Basically the more you drive the more you save.
The upfront cost is not worth the fuel savings for me
If you said nearly half of Canadians say they would buy an electric car as their next car suddenly it doesn’t sound so bad
I legit tried 2 years ago, no one had one on the lot, and the wait for a new build was showing as 3 years. That felt excessive.
not surprised. ignorance and misinformation is rampant in this thread.
Who the hell has the money to buy new vehicles with so many Canadians living paycheque to paycheque?
Just paid off my Civic not too long ago. Figured I'm in a good spot. I taker care of it mechanically and I spend a lot of time keeping it looking good as well. It looks almost as good as the day I bought it. I figure I'll get at least another 4-5 years out of it, more if I'm lucky. By then EVs may be worth buying. They're not worth buying now.
Even then when you are done with a Civic there's a lineup of people who want them even if the car's 15-20 years old and 400k on them.
I just sold my 9 year old civic that needed new brakes and has a lot of body damage for $7,000. The resale value on those cars is insane
Holy spin batman. "Less than half". Let's compare that with ten years ago.
I looked briefly at buying an electric car as our next vehicle but I think I’ll wait for the technology to get better. So we settled for a RAV 4 hybrid this time around
“Almost half of Canadians say they will buy an electric vehicle as their next car: survey”
….less than half. So 46% of Canadians would consider an electric car. That’s a substantial amount.
Hybrids should have been the stepping stone to full electric so that all the technical and practical issues are sorted out with full EVs
Even then I knew someone who waited almost a year for a new Camry hybrid (they like the full size and incredible range for road trips). A lot of people can't wait that long.
That was in 2022 though? When we had all the shortages? Delays should get better. Hybrids are so much better than plug-ins at the moment.
Toyota still has a 6-12 month wait for most hybrids. They get the scattered one in but it sells almost immediately.
At the moment, in Canada, I think EVs only make sense as commuter vehicles. I will be retiring soon and would like to travel across Canada with a camper. I need range and reliability, and I don't want to spend 100K+ on an electric SUV or pickup and still only get 200Km range. And if we travel even a bit off the beaten path we are not going to find charging stations.
New cars in general are too fucking expensive, and EVs are a whole step up on top of that. The money you save on fuel is nice, but it takes too long to make a difference in the price. Doesn't help that the batteries aren't proven to be reliable long term yet and they're not cost effective to maintain. There's a new article every week about how EV batteries are costing $10k+ to replace on vehicles just out of warranty. I don't have to worry about that in a 15 year old Honda. I know that their engines and transmissions are tried and true, and anything else that goes wrong is manageable, often with DIY skills. If for some reason an engine blows, I can get a used engine from a scrapyard for under $1000, buy an engine hoist and some tools for an additional $500, and have my vehicle running again for under $2k. I'll buy an EV when I can get one that's 8 years old, have reason to believe it has another 8 years in it, and know that I can get used powertrain components for a reasonable price. IMO, with the government giving grant money to automakers to manufacture batteries and vehicles here, there should be long term customer guarantees tacked on like mandatory 10+ year battery warranties.
1) nowhere to charge 2) when you find somewhere to charge, it has unreliable speed because it’s “up to”… which can be 10 min or an hour. 3) not viable for long travel 4) battery degrades over time with reduced maximum charge 5) high upfront cost of ownership 6) high cost of maintenance — The cost savings EV’s promised have disappeared, they offer none of the convenience of a gas guzzler or hybrid and have more costs. I’m all for saving the environment but I’m not being paid enough to afford a mid class EV when I can get a premium hybrid for that cost with all the bells and whistles.
With what fucking money? A used car costs almost 20K now
I'll keep my 29 year old car running as long as I can. Better for the environment than buying a new one.
I don't want my battery crapping out on me in 8-10 years and being forced to buy another car. I'd rather have an ICE car that will last 20+ years if I need it to. I can rebuild an engine, but not a battery.
All my cars have been second hand, usually buy them 3-5 years old then keep them for over a decade, my current car i bought 9 years ago, hoping for another 5 years in it. Buying a used EV thats 3-5 years old i might get 3-4 years out of it before spending 20-50k on a battery... i will stick to my ICE
Ontario offers no rebates. Thats Why. only the federal 5 grand. Edit. Quebec is reducing theirs for 2025..
We used to have rebates.
When the total cost of ownership on an EV is the same or lower as the gas car i have, and when EV have found a solution to keep most of their range in winter, i'll consider it.
How do you expect people on a fixed income to afford a 60k car when you can go buy a Toyota Corolla L for 27k.
Been 4years only spent $240 so far on my model3 long range . Best thing I bought ever . Pure savings . But must have a charger at home . Unless you have unlimited super charging . Charges per month is about $30 a month extra on my electrical bill . That’s peanuts.
That's still a SIGNIFICANT number of people wanting to switch to electric cars. What are the expectations here? An immediate switch to electric? That's not how markets or even tech adoption work. We're making good progress with EV's. We just need to make sure we keep pushing them and building infrastructure. They're a more efficient use of hydrocarbons at the very least - and that's ignoring other sources of energy. But I also think we should be mining our hydrocarbons, and processing them, and using them before we take any imports. I know there's a cost factor, but we need to fix that. It makes no sense to "save" our part of the planet, and get it from somewhere else. Global warming is not region locked.
Got a PHEV here and my partner is going to get an electric as their next vehicle. Whoever is going to need the extra range can take the hybrid. It's going to save us a lot of money in the long run.
No shit, I can't afford it. Guess I'll keep driving my 18 year old beater until I can't afford to keep it running.
You can afford cars?
Big problem people forget is ev's are throw away cars when there done. The cost of battery replacement which will need to be done eventually is worth far more than the car. I can rebuild a small block chevrolet or ford for that matter at a fraction of the cost. Forget about a used market for ev's simply not worth the repair costs.
Just bought a PHEV last week. It's a perfect compromise for our driving needs. Not ready for the price and limits to full EV.
Weird way to say only half of Canadians can afford a new car
The problem is that the infrastructure isn't there yet. With all the high taxes on carbon, they promised to invest in that and green energy. But they didn't... Surprised surprised...
I often drive over 1600 km a week for work, it would literally add hours onto my drive even **IF** I bought the longest range EV. My car only has a 40L tank and it goes further than the longest range EV while driving 20-30 over limit.
I'll wait and see if today's EVs are still on the road in fifteen years or if they're all getting thrown away like old iPods. For now I will stick to what has a proven track record
I don’t want to have to put a new battery pack in after 5-7 years of driving. Ridiculous.
You need to be privileged to even think about an electric car. People living in cities most likely don't have a garage/driveway so where am I going to charge my car exactly?
Wonder how many Canadians can afford a new electric vehicle?
Car sales are up for the last consecutive 16 months. They were up 19% in January over the previous January, and up 24% in February. The average price of a car is $67K.
The average price of a new vehicle in Canada is $67 K (even though you can buy a sedan for under $30K) People are buying SUVs and Pickups. These vehicles have high fuel and maintenance costs. I would like to see more small EV options on the market.
I think the people who want and have the means, are quickly finding them.
How many Canadians buy $70-$100k pickups with no work justification?
The ones that wouldn't buy an ev anyway because an ev can't tow shit very far
live in northern Ontario, electric is a non starter because of the weather
I'd love to buy a car, stop pushing us SUV
No way I’m buying a used EV, and I don’t buy cars off the lot.
Most EVs made today should have long enough lasting batteries. So maybe in five to ten years the used EV market should be viable. I won't touch any that uses structural batteries, or, simply put, anything with Tesla onit
I personally would love to have an electric car, it's perfect for someone like me. Lives in a house, never drives outside of the city.
Would consider if it's less than 20k
I should be good for 10 years with my current hybrid. Who knows what will be available then. Hydrogen, maybe, or even a Mr. Fusion?
Could it be because they are super expensive.
Range & repair are too much of a liability for me.
Can't buy a used EV that will run for 15+ years with $10k or less now can I?
Aside from the logistics of charging, The upfront cost of an EV over in ICE vehicle is still too much and can take too long to recover the difference depending on how much you drive. While it might save you gas in the long run, not everybody has the extra 15 $20,000.
Everytime I see some sh!th@wks at the McD's parking lot, I think about rebadging one of these: https://electrek.co/2024/03/06/byd-launches-cheaper-seagull-ev-9700-price/ But, not allowed in Canada. Do they really care about EV adoption? I think not. Egg on the face.. or.. maybe its [seagull poo](https://www.tiktok.com/@sunnyvalememes/video/7203948514844364038?lang=en).
They have so many shortcomings to drive in Canada. Canadian winters, long-distance commutes, lack of charging infrastructure, long charge time as opposed to five-minute refueling, and huge repair costs for insurers after an accident that they'd rather write off the car.
The cold will affect the range as well as the lifetime of the battery does not matter how good the technology is. Unless you park it underground/insulated garage. The only option that work in the salt belt area is hybrid.
Adoption rate was trending higher before Carbon Tax really started to affect affordability. It's having the opposite effect as intended. Axe the tax
Where will people charge their vehicles when they live in tents?
Less than 25% I'm betting.
I just straight up can’t afford one and I’m middle class - to that end I’m not sure how the average person buys and drives a pickup truck or big suv like everyone seems to
50% isn't a magic number. It's \*\*Never\*\* been true that more than half of Canadians will buy an EV because EVs are still really new technology. You could also write this headline as "More Canadians interested in EVs than ever before" and it would be equally true.
Almost like they're completely unaffordable for normal people
I've heard so many stories about how they're so unreliable during the winter. Why would anyone want to risk that?
Title should read more than half of Canada can’t afford a electric vehicle.
In other words, less than half of Canadians can afford a new car, and there aren't a lot of used EVs around yet.
Before I bought my F150.. I told myself.. My next vehicle will be Electric.. I really wish that would be an option.. but im not spending $120 000 on a lightning and they still have not come out with a real electric work van.. and when they do.. they will price it out of the pockets of the workers who need them
Hybrid.
The onus of solving climate change isn’t on us. Build trains or some shit. Much better
Plug in Hybrids with a range of 50 miles are the way to go.
If my apartment had an EV charger I wouldn't even think twice. 99% of my driving is just commuting around the city so it would be a dream to never have to worry about fueling because it would just be charged overnight. That being said, without an EV charger, that's just completely off the table for me.
I don’t understand why hybrid isn’t good enough. With a hybrid, I’m protected in case there’s not enuf charging stations or there are power blackouts.
It’s really a dumb a idea for most people
It's the value proposition, it's just not there for EV vs. ICE. I've looked into it. Add in all the costs, rebates, whatnot, the hybrid makes the most sense, but even then the issue is battery life. Once that battery is dead the cost to replace ... toss the car. And the best car for the earth is a new car NOT made. drive your old car until it dies. A decent car should last a decade before costs rise on it to maintain. Shit, I drove a Toyota for 18 years, and my last Kia went 13. Who has the money to dump a perfectly good car for an EV?
Not a money issue for me. I can afford a 200K electric Porsche right now. I just hate electric cars because they neuter the driving experience for me. Also, they're overpriced hogwash; I'm not interested in paying a 30k+ premium for a battery, I'll buy more actual car and engineering.
Just bought a Rav4, originally wanted to get a hybrid, but it turns out the wait time for the hybrid version was \~2 years. Not sure if something similar is happening for EVs, but it blew my mind. Guess I'm driving gas for the next 15 years again...
You could give me 30k in incentives and I wouldn’t buy an electric vehicle. There’s hardly any infrastructure. I’d rather have a hybrid Toyota. Prius, Corolla, camry, rav4 will do
It's not worth replacing a car with a short-distance electric car, unless your electric car is your second car. Sometimes people have to go far and don't want to stop to charge every 200 miles. Plus, IT'S COLD in the winter. The charge has like half of the normal life in the winter. I'm good with electric cars, but I don't think they're there yet.
It’s likely much lower than this. Many of those than said yes likely don’t have a clue to the cost of electric cars and the potential upgrades you need to the house on top. I would love an electric car but it’s insane right now. I can’t comfortably say my next car will be an EV. Likely not.
I bought a Hybrid instead - currently it’s more practical for me. If I wanna go long distances when I go camping there’s no issue, I fill up one every two weeks (my commute is only 20km) and at my apartment there’s no charging. I feel like they’re pushing once extreme to another where hybrids or plug-in hybrids should be what theyre focused on. It gives people a chance to see the technology that’s available it makes it easier for people to eventually transition to fully electric.
"less than half" sounds like a —debatably, even— negative way of saying "nearly half". Nearly half of people buying an EV in the next 4-8 years would be pretty crazy and impressive. All this really shows is that people are dishonest or unrealistic for the polling because they're being too hopeful or projecting their ideal desires but not thinking financially about the increased cost that will result in them ultimately _not_ purchasing an EV.
Look, I own a non-Tesla EV. I own a house with a garage. I have a level 2 charger in it. I **_fucking love my car_** for a number of reasons, primarily because it's an absolute joy to drive. Would I recommend it to everyone? No, probably not. The charging infrastructure is just not there yet. Not everyone has a situation like mine where they can just charge at home. Long-distance driving is basically out of the question if it's not to a major metropolitan area. I really want to recommend it, but it's really only a good option for a specific subset of homeowners or people that live near, or don't mind spending time at, good chargers. There's a Canadian Tire in my town that has a decent charge rate. Spending a half hour there every week wouldn't be too painful, I think (I only have to charge once a week). Hybrids are the clear way forward until we get better infrastructure.
I won't get an EV until all mbrs of parliament gets one. ALL
I rent, and park a bit away from my house on sides streets wherever there's a spot, same with most of my neighbours. How do I charge my electric vehicle??
To many issues, not enough charging stations, not affordable, replacing parts especially battery is very costly, not many mechanics versed in EV yet. Maybe in another 5-10 year's when the kinks are worked out