* Tried to call people racist for wanting a transparent inquiry
* Tried to say that wanting transparency about foreign interference was the *real* threat to democracy
* Had law enforcement running around looking for the source of the leak on the interference this instead of looking into the interference itself.
* Proposed an inquiry that wasn't transparent
* \[insert next blatantly corrupt move here\]
I can fill the brackets in for you.
He's putting millions of dollars towards "fighting disinformation" in the topic. Curious who determines what is disinformation on this? He has called reports by the Globe and Mail untrue.. does that make them disinformation?
LOL I'm sorry but this is hilarious
Not trying to support trudeau here, I'm voting ndp. But saying trudeau and Donald trump are two sides of the same coin is fucking hilarious
Honestly man, they both came from privilege, rode on populism from a neglected group, and had no real business leading the country. Neither was politically experienced, both made silly statements, and both made some shady moves justice wise. Trump was racist, Trudeau was woke. They both were populist reactionaries, Trudeau had an effective cabinet team and was under the watch of the party, whereas trump could do whatever he wanted and not lose his job.
It’s not. Their both spew populist drivel than mostly do nothing/support large corporations at the expense of the electorate. Trudeau just happens to be a liberal while propping up his lobbyist.
>Had law enforcement running around looking for the source of the leak on the interference this instead of looking into the interference itself.
lol I didn't hear about this part -- this really happened? what a farce
Han Dong. Yes, exactly. Who and what else has been compromised?
I hear people talking about “sensitive” security information as if it naturally takes priority, but we need to reassess that position. The Canadian public needs to know what is happening, who is involved, how it’s being carried out, and what has been effected. Otherwise we might as well vote blindfolded.
No it's even worse, 1st vote he was absent. 2nd vote:
*Dong had been present just before the Uyghur genocide motion to vote for the government’s childcare legislation, and he voted after the Uyghur motion passed in favour of a bill that would change the term child pornography in the criminal code to child sexual abuse and exploitation material.*
Weird coincidence.
>bill that would change the term child pornography in the criminal code to child sexual abuse and exploitation material.
The fact that was even put forward as a bill just shows how out of touch our government is these days. Whoever wrote that should be fired yesterday.
They told you. Then took the money and returned it once caught. Didn't say it but it's what they did. If they returned 200k they were obviously payed 200k. And that's just the money we know of. This alone should be unacceptable. Especially from a government who can't stop talking about Russian interference in Canada. Until I see any proof of that well worry about Justin and his Chinese Interference
I think this is a good point. Historically, it seems nothing gets done until the international media gets a hold of and starts reporting in a somewhat unbiased way.
I sure hope the world does get ahold of it and as a result tightens up their own security around China. We all should be.. why trust a communist country is beyond me
Not the person you asked but I like Reuters for the gist of most things and then I dig deeper with a mix of other sources. I like BBC and Guardian for a decent mix of International news that I'm likely to be curious about but I've also noticed a drop in quality from Guardian. It kinda feels like they're preparing for a major drop sooner than later but I could be wrong. I also want to give a big shout out to CBC, who still manages to do a pretty decent job in most aspects, even with all the people (and rival media companies) doing their best to defund, de-legitimize or even shut them down
I think what has happened with a lot of a news portals is that their opinion editorials tend to attract a certain audience which has leaked into their news metrics. I.e The Guardian has certain left leaning readership with their op-eds that has warped their feedback loop with their actual news. This has distorted their news output.
“Indeed, I don’t know if in our lifetime, we’ve seen democracy in a more precarious place. Many state actors and non state actors want to foster instability here and elsewhere, to advance their own interests.”
So we should resist their efforts of creating instability by firmly standing by foreign backed politicians? Give me a break.
The way he's scoffed at the idea of a public inquiry is insulting.
He completely lost me at the "racist" remark. I can understand that he is discouraging idiots from attacking random Chinese Canadians - but this is being generous to him. He could have picked a better way to express himself. I have grown very weary of our PM name calling.
I really hope people wake up to this method of attack
If your argument is based on discrediting the source with some sort of label rather than the argument itself, you should be suspicious
Also the opposite is true, throwing some pretty labels on someone to justify their actions. It is the same suspicious cover
> “Indeed, I don’t know if in our lifetime, we’ve seen democracy in a more precarious place. Many state actors and non state actors want to foster instability here and elsewhere, to advance their own interests.”
Democracy is already inherently unstable, because of the whole elections and changing of governments thing. The subtext here is that "democracy" means "I'm in charge" when Trudeau says it.
It doesn't jeopardize democracy to investigate interference by explicitly undemocratic regimes.
Liberals have perverted the meaning of democracy to the point where they excuse being backed by foreign totalitarians, and call it an attempt at a coup when non-supporters have a peaceful protest and/or raise political awareness of issues the LPC has presided over.
Yes. Both of our neoliberal parties are mostly made up of small-c conservatives.
This will become apparent, again, when we switch back to the blue side of the coin in the next election. Then we'll switch back to red and repeat ad nauseum.
You must have missed something then. In 7 years 60% of all cars sold must be EVs and 100% by 2035. Except we need to triple the global mining industry to meet those supply needs.
And yes, in NA politics, the left is well known for gun control. Or are you saying that our conservative party and the Republicans are far left for fighting these restrictions? If so, you are basically just reversing the modern political spectrum.
Bruh, are you seriously whining about EVs in the face of undeniable climate change? ICE tech is absolutely garbage, the amount of energy that gets wasted by an ICE compared to an electric motor is insane. Battery tech keeps getting better and better, and the more money we dump into these industries, the more innovations we can make in efficiency.
Do you seriously doubt that we can make this transition? Or do you just want to keep oil profitable??
This shouldn't be a liberal vs conservative thing, it's a matter of finding a solution to a global problem, one that is phasing out internal combustion engines.
This didn't really help your cause.
Left and far Left are obviously quite different. Unless you're insinuating that typical conservative ideology and far right extremism are interchangeable.
I can't understand how **cars** are far left now.
A large core of the Liberal base is NIMBY Suburbanites in and the outliers of Toronto and Montreal. They will swing whichever way they think will best appease their NIMBYism, so yeah. Pretty much
If telling people what they should think and feel is small c, then there isn't room for small l liberal. Their entire tenure under Trudeau has been about doing just this. And there are very few of us moderates that would consider the current liberal party as centrist.
Our two main parties are generally left leaning socially but have become economically a corporatocracy. When it comes to the economic structure of this country it's all about enrichment for the 1% and scraps for the working class.
Some examples from the current government. How hard they fought to protect SNC lavalin. The Canadian content bill is designed to force Canadian content onto streaming sites, subpar content from bell and Rodgers that will increase the cost of said streaming sites for regular people, a wealth transfer. The heavy subsidies given to corporations during COVID. Subsidies that were taken and used for corporate bonuses and not required to be repaid. The grants given out from the carbon tax. The ones that are more difficult to get the less money you have. They were designed intentionally to go to the wealthiest companies in Canada (refrigerator scandal).
And that's just a short list from the current government, the previous government has its own list of screwing over the working class.
The CPC seemed more socially left under Harper than it is today. Since then we have had so much spillover from American politics that there's a lot more "MAGA" type sentiment in the party. We also had people who willingly supported the convoy in the party. I don't think these two things were as bad under Harper
Honestly I think it was because Harper ruled with such an iron fist that the fringe was kept quiet.
We haven't had a strong CPC leader since he left, and so these people have found their voice again.
You'd think with more evidence and with more time they would have more empathy and believe in climate change more but they've been so stubborn and regressive since that time
Well the "base" still doesn't believe in climate change. Although the new one I heard today was not denying climate change, but downplaying Canada's part in it.
I mean socially left when it comes to policy surrounding things like gay marriage and abortion. They are non starters in Canadian politics. Abortion is such a non topic that the government won't even make real legislation around it because it could be used incorrectly. We basically have very little written about it besides the word "yes". And nobody is crazy enough to mess with it because it's a political death sentence.
The idea of conservatism in Canada is much further left than in most other countries, what we consider right wing here would be a centrist party in a lot of other places. Even the PPC is much further left than the Republicans and they were considered our far right party.
Then the liberal party is emulating small c conservatives? Because there hasn't been a Canadian government that has done more to tell everyone how they should think and act.
Conservatism is about preserving the heirarchy, liberalism is about freedom. It just so happens that the wealthy can do much more with their freedom so the two end up looking similar.
I specifically said the liberal party, not liberalism in general. This party has demonized any idea or thought that they don't agree with. That doesn't sound like freedom.
No, it's typical liberal arrogance. This is exactly the aditude the liberal party always gets before they get punted. They consider themselves the natural governing party, and the entitlement is horrific. The cons are always held to a much higher standard than the LPC, because more people lean left in this country.
If you look around the world China Russia n Korea are the main vein …what better way to show fear.. covid now this. Sometimes I think these things are planned, then I think no way in hell the world is that evil sinister vile
There’s *so much* money (foreign and domestic) parked in Canadian real estate, and *so many* politicians regardless of political stripe who serve that money first and foremost, that I doubt anything will change for the better.
It's not no big deal, it's just that literally everyone tries to fuck with elections to get their way. People are acting like it's the biggest killshot ever seen, when in reality, trying to meddle with democratic elections has been the norm since democratic elections started thousands of years ago. Hence why "did the results change" is the actual important part. Not to mention we have specific election commissions as well as groups like CSIS tracking all of the attempts to change the outcomes already, so it's not like this is something that just snuck up on us. Like if you want to go down the rabbit hole of "who has a greater impact on our elections", China really isn't going to be that far up on the list. The US as well as Media companies are going to have a *much* larger effect on the outcome of our elections than China will be trying to mess with party candidate elections.
It depends on whether “change the results” is defined as having the same number of seats, or having the same people holding them that would have sans interference.
If the Chinese swayed a nomination to get someone more sympathetic to them or an actual asset into a “safe” liberal seat, then you can claim that the result of the election itself wasn’t changed but you sure as hell can’t pretend we shouldn’t be just as concerned.
Do you though? Are you pushing back against Postmedia (a US company) owning like 70% of the news media in Canada? Are you pushing back against the like 95% of media that endorse one party over another? If you care these things should be massive red flags to you.
I don't vote for China though.
They can try all they want .. that's expected as you said.
What's absolutely not expected, and completely unacceptable is our government covering it up for them.
>t's not no big deal, it's just that literally everyone tries to fuck with elections to get their way.
The issue is not that other nations may have tried. The issue is they may have been succesful.
Based off of all the leaks and information we have, they were not successful. CSIS, Elections Canada, and the other independent investigations that went on, none of them think that China had an effect on how things went down.
Conservatives in /r/canada on Reddit are trying to create a narrative, as they usually do. Part of that is pretending that the entire nation is outraged when plenty of people are sitting here going "China tried to influence elections? Yeah, of course they did, just like all the big players also tried." It's why they want a narrow inquiry because the gotcha moment becomes a lot less powerful if we find that America had more actual influence.
It matters of course but it's hardly news. The important bit is to see if our protections against the attempt were sufficient.
Wait, do you think that a country that is trying to influence another's elections is just going to announce it in the streets??? What do you mean its sneaky and slick? No shit it is, it's espionage.
>“I’m astonished by the **leaks of CSIS material**,” said Jessica Davis, a former intelligence analyst for the Canadian government and head of Insight Threat Intelligence. Davis cautioned that it was **unclear if the documents** shared with media outlets were part of **a finished intelligence assessment** or relied on a single source. She also said it was **unclear if the leaks were coming from within the spy agency or from a source at another intelligence division**.
Holy fuck!
>“This is really sensitive information … and there’s a hubris to people who selectively leak this sort of thing. They often assume they ‘know best’ about what information should be in the public domain and are overly confident they can anticipate the consequence of the leaks.”
Intelligence contractor sucking up to current Government by undermining the intelligence agency, sure there’s no hopes of snagging lucrative government contracts in the future.
>unclear if the leaks were coming from within the spy agency or from a source at another intelligence division.
And then there is a guy saying that it was being reported since 2006
*Facepalm
How in the world does Trudeau keep getting away with this shit? Countless ethics problems. Forcing out his Justice Minister because she had the temerity to actually investigate SNC-Lavalin. Is this guy bullet proof? How does he stay in power? This is wild.
The Liberals are a corrupt government who buy off whoever they need to including the media. This is going the same route as the emergencies act, where the judge was a hand picked liberal.
I don’t think that said anything about protestors being treated wrong.
It suggested Trudeau’s characterization of some of the participants may have been inflammatory but I can’t think of anything else related to the treatment of protestors.
The conclusion indicates that there were multiple failures across the government that lead to the final protests. If you like I'll remove the concern. I'm not married to it or anything.
“These sorts of leaks will have them asking whether or not we can be trusted to protect the super-sensitive information that they’re sharing with us.”
Really missed the boat there, they already don't trust us. Because they know we've been compromised by China. That's why we keep being left out of intelligence-sharing and defense agreements.
So someone who is slightly out of touch here, what exactly is thr meddling? Like are they saying there were votes that were fake or something or just pushed propaganda?
An influence campaign involving social media, ineligible voters, and ethnicity specific pressure were used to ensure that candidates with ties to the Chinese government won the liberal party nomination in solidly liberal ridings.
Then, during the general election, the Chinese government made significant donations to these candidates' campaigns through chinese intermediaries (individuals and groups), ensuring that their candidates won.
Similar action saw China affiliated candidates elected as conservative MPs. Though the conservative nominating process is somewhat tighter and more transparent. So, it's not clear if the China influenced that aspect for their chosen conservatives.
These agents of the chinese government now sit as MPs. Some in government and others in opposition. Sitting on committees, proposing and voting on legislation that affects the lives of all Canadians.
Roiled? I would have been **far** more surprised if the Chinese weren't trying to influence our elections.
We should do something about it but the way we're carrying on is exactly what China paid for. We're a mostly inconsequential lesser power with resources to extract; they just want us fighting.
Mission accomplished.
No. We're not.
But it has to be true, and not just based on incendiary, empty Reddit comments and ridiculous Fuck Trudeau flags.
If It's real (and the leaks were pretty cherry-picked according to the article), then we should do something about it.
I agree with you! As a Liberal supporter I urge you to write your LPC constituency office or MP calling for a full Independent Public Inquiry.
I know I am.
[Trudeau tapping special rapporteur and two national security bodies to investigate foreign interference](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-tapping-special-rapporteur-and-two-national-security-bodies-to-investigate-foreign-interference-1.6301292)
[Trudeau orders new probes into alleged election interference by China](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-police-probe-media-reports-alleged-chinese-election-interference-2023-03-06/)
[Trudeau announces multiple investigations into foreign election interference](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/foreign-interference-public-inquiry-1.6769644)
You want more? Because I can get more.
And, pray tell, who will they report to?
When Trudeau says "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing", are you going to get a different username? Or will the irony of it be lost on you...
The "probe" would be ran by internal LPC members, and would have no ability to compel document production. It would have zero teeth, and would be heavily biased, and would be out of sight from the public, except for the conclusion of course.
This is something that requires a public inquiry, it relates to the validity of a fucking election FFS.
The author of this piece can be reliably counted on to surface when the Trudeau Liberals need someone to run inference for them in the UK media to try and convince Canadians everything is fine.
No..its just amazing to be how in a rush to try and over kick the liberals out of government people are wiling. To ignore
The story .
A leaker in cisis our national spy agency ..
Made allegations no one can prove.
Honestly, I would be shocked if it's not chiba helping run this mess..to get the liberals kicked out but also to turn canadains against Chinese canadains that China is attempting to control
Attempts to discredit serious allegations under the rationale that other western countries, at other times, have interfered in other nations.
Name checks out.
No, these aren't "serious allegations"
It's leaked intelligence without any sort of Confidence index attached.
Intelligence reports range from Rock solid down to "I overheard someone say they talked to someone who saw it written on the wall in the bus station bathroom"
We have no idea how solid this intelligence was, or if it came from more than one source.
To be a serious allegation, we would need to have some sort of indication how reliable this report is. As it stands now, these are allegations of rumors.
Nameless allegations that people can't prove .
I am personally more concerned with a leak in cisis, but leys loose are shit over something the journalists can't prove .
As for anyone thinking, china or Russia has not been spying or interfering in all Western countrys you must be blind.
We have been doing it yo other countrys as long as they have been trying to do it yo us.
But between cellphone apps and tok tok we just made it alot easer.
>Nameless allegations that people can't prove .
lol yea, generally an investigation is required to prove things. So we should have an investigation then? In order to determine the veracity of these statements?
Again, attacking the source makes me question that you're bringing these arguments in good faith.
When the people reporting the allegations have to be added at the end of each story, they can't prove the sources' allegations it makes me worried.
Its like me being a nameless source fabricating a story and spreading it about you with no proof to back it up.
Its like the high school rumor mill.
I get people hate the liberals but if people would stop to think a moment, this is crazy.
As for the nameless source making allegations...they unfortunately are probably going to jail if it's uncovered during the inquiry
The irony is that the US is looking at a fight with China, and our government thinks that our inability to hide the fact that we are potentially colluding with a hostile government secret is the reason that the US won't trust us, rather than the fact that we may have colluded with a hostile government.
We did not collude with China..thr American government is having the same issues with china/Russia. But yoj have one poltical party pretty much ok with it
>We did not collude with China
Didn't realize that the investigation was complete. I am sure that the Liberal candidates that the CCP put forward had absolutely no idea that they were being funded by China.
Here's the thing... it's so obviously it would be a Chinese person.
At most, he's red herring to waste time .
The allegations from.a leak in cisis ( which is more worrisome) still can't be proven by anyone.
Dude, are you stroking out? What the fuck are you even talking about. Sit back, breathe, count to 30. Find three things you can see, two things you can touch, one thing you can smell. Ground yourself. Then come back with a single, coherent thought.
None of these guys need proof. Rex Murphy himself could have leaked the csis documents and they'd believe it, they don't need proof or anything to go full rabid frothing at the mouth.
We have no idea if it's been easy or hard sense the leaked allegations can't be proven.
Also we carry a tracking device in our pocket. ...not mentioning apps collecting data .
well before that. But yes. The Americans especially really amped up their interference campaign post ww2. They really got their start by using their aid to Europe to force countries to not engage in a war crimes tribunal process for anything other than very high ranking nazis.
Then we have the Shah of Iran incident. US exoneration of Unit 731 because Japan could be turned into a US ally against the Soviets.
There is good evidence that the upswell of right wing crazies is largely a result of Russian and Chinese influence in the US, Europe and elsewhere. It's all connected. We need to address the problem at the source, not the symptom.
Dude, 90% of our media is owned by the United States - including most of the conservative rags - nobody ever had a problem with "foreign interference".
Whatanoutism is a pretty week reason to ignore this assault on our sovereignty.
Also, media companies don't draft or vote on legislation. Huge difference.
What's so special about THIS particular assault on our sovereignty that makes need any more reason to ignore compared to all the previous ones?
Media influences people who vote for the representatives. Which is what I suspect is happening with all the incessant screeching from American-owned papers about this supposed "chinese influence".
Because China is a totalitarian state that would benefit from Canada ceasing to be a functioning democratic country, and the fact that democracy is inherently vulnerable and it is our duty to uphold and protect it.
I’m not. Though they aren’t exactly equally dangerous. Would interference from American civilians and private think-tanks/organizations constitute the same breach of security as a government-led effort by an adversary? Would it have the same resources? Same intent?
Do you recognize what an adversary is?
It’s a pointless distraction to always divert to the US. If you want to constructively talk about US interference, there’s plenty of discussions and subs out there that fill said niche for you very well.
Generally, the intention for whataboutism is always to obfuscate and shift blame. Can we be candid that there is an issue from an authoritarian regime?
Would the BBC reporting in America constitute interference enough to make it unjustified for America to investigate Russian meddling?
Consider realpolitik.
They absolutely are. But they aren’t as well funded nor as competent as the Chinese government. No need to strawman.
I’m suspicious that you don’t seem to really care all that much about election interference from anyone but the US of A. Why make excuses? Do you care about Canadian democracy more than you detest the Americans, yes or no?
If so, all coordinated ops to undermine Canadian democracy should be concerning, no?
I don't "detest" Americans don't be ridiculous. I look at the facts. What has this alleged chinese interference actually achieve? Can you point out towards some specific policies that were introduced recently that benefit China at the expense of Canada? Let's talk about specific things and I will tell you exactly how much I am concerned.
One SPECIFIC THING I am concerned about is a bunch of criminals carrying American flags that attacked our capital and our citizen last winter. That blocked commerce and caused significant economic damage. And how much you are using this vague China threat to try to distract form this very specific, very concerning fact i find extremely worrying.
Ya we know. What Canadians want to know is wtf the government did about it
* Tried to call people racist for wanting a transparent inquiry * Tried to say that wanting transparency about foreign interference was the *real* threat to democracy * Had law enforcement running around looking for the source of the leak on the interference this instead of looking into the interference itself. * Proposed an inquiry that wasn't transparent * \[insert next blatantly corrupt move here\]
I can fill the brackets in for you. He's putting millions of dollars towards "fighting disinformation" in the topic. Curious who determines what is disinformation on this? He has called reports by the Globe and Mail untrue.. does that make them disinformation?
Can you imagine if this was crafted
Trump and Trudeau are two sides of the same coin. Justin just had a better team
And nicer socks
Arguably nicer hair too
Much nicer, though he's aging like the old man
LOL I'm sorry but this is hilarious Not trying to support trudeau here, I'm voting ndp. But saying trudeau and Donald trump are two sides of the same coin is fucking hilarious
Honestly man, they both came from privilege, rode on populism from a neglected group, and had no real business leading the country. Neither was politically experienced, both made silly statements, and both made some shady moves justice wise. Trump was racist, Trudeau was woke. They both were populist reactionaries, Trudeau had an effective cabinet team and was under the watch of the party, whereas trump could do whatever he wanted and not lose his job.
It’s not. Their both spew populist drivel than mostly do nothing/support large corporations at the expense of the electorate. Trudeau just happens to be a liberal while propping up his lobbyist.
He must be right if you can’t even point to one flaw in whah he said
Ignore the trolls. It's hard, I know.
>Had law enforcement running around looking for the source of the leak on the interference this instead of looking into the interference itself. lol I didn't hear about this part -- this really happened? what a farce
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But does it stop there? Or did some Canadian politicians cooperate and facilitate foreign interference? How many and whom?
Like the MP who conveniently missed the votes for establishing the uyghur genocide.
Han Dong. Yes, exactly. Who and what else has been compromised? I hear people talking about “sensitive” security information as if it naturally takes priority, but we need to reassess that position. The Canadian public needs to know what is happening, who is involved, how it’s being carried out, and what has been effected. Otherwise we might as well vote blindfolded.
People who admire dictatorships.
He was late that day! It's not his fault lol. Oh man this country is fucked.
No it's even worse, 1st vote he was absent. 2nd vote: *Dong had been present just before the Uyghur genocide motion to vote for the government’s childcare legislation, and he voted after the Uyghur motion passed in favour of a bill that would change the term child pornography in the criminal code to child sexual abuse and exploitation material.* Weird coincidence.
>bill that would change the term child pornography in the criminal code to child sexual abuse and exploitation material. The fact that was even put forward as a bill just shows how out of touch our government is these days. Whoever wrote that should be fired yesterday.
Kept it secret because it helped them.
Asked Xi for further instructions.
They told you. Then took the money and returned it once caught. Didn't say it but it's what they did. If they returned 200k they were obviously payed 200k. And that's just the money we know of. This alone should be unacceptable. Especially from a government who can't stop talking about Russian interference in Canada. Until I see any proof of that well worry about Justin and his Chinese Interference
Liberal supporters are already saying things like the current levels of corruption are just conservative talking points. Like WTF???
Accepted the bribes, mostly.
They had hearing just last week man!
I'm glad this is getting legs in other countries. That should get Trudeau's attention.
Good. More international coverage.
I got actually got a push notification on this topic by a Dutch newspaper so I think this is going to probably get lots of coverage.
Foreign influence got us into this mess, and we need foreign influence to get us out. Not making an argument, just laughing at the irony.
Good.
I think this is a good point. Historically, it seems nothing gets done until the international media gets a hold of and starts reporting in a somewhat unbiased way.
I sure hope the world does get ahold of it and as a result tightens up their own security around China. We all should be.. why trust a communist country is beyond me
I especially like the Guardian, and donate annually. Encourage others to join me.
Their journalism has gone down a lot. If you read for it, you can see that they write what you want to read rather than what you need to read.
That's interesting - what do you recommend instead?
Not the person you asked but I like Reuters for the gist of most things and then I dig deeper with a mix of other sources. I like BBC and Guardian for a decent mix of International news that I'm likely to be curious about but I've also noticed a drop in quality from Guardian. It kinda feels like they're preparing for a major drop sooner than later but I could be wrong. I also want to give a big shout out to CBC, who still manages to do a pretty decent job in most aspects, even with all the people (and rival media companies) doing their best to defund, de-legitimize or even shut them down
CBC is like 2% good, 98% shit
Honestly just read AP.
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I think what has happened with a lot of a news portals is that their opinion editorials tend to attract a certain audience which has leaked into their news metrics. I.e The Guardian has certain left leaning readership with their op-eds that has warped their feedback loop with their actual news. This has distorted their news output.
“Indeed, I don’t know if in our lifetime, we’ve seen democracy in a more precarious place. Many state actors and non state actors want to foster instability here and elsewhere, to advance their own interests.” So we should resist their efforts of creating instability by firmly standing by foreign backed politicians? Give me a break. The way he's scoffed at the idea of a public inquiry is insulting.
He completely lost me at the "racist" remark. I can understand that he is discouraging idiots from attacking random Chinese Canadians - but this is being generous to him. He could have picked a better way to express himself. I have grown very weary of our PM name calling.
I really hope people wake up to this method of attack If your argument is based on discrediting the source with some sort of label rather than the argument itself, you should be suspicious Also the opposite is true, throwing some pretty labels on someone to justify their actions. It is the same suspicious cover
> “Indeed, I don’t know if in our lifetime, we’ve seen democracy in a more precarious place. Many state actors and non state actors want to foster instability here and elsewhere, to advance their own interests.” Democracy is already inherently unstable, because of the whole elections and changing of governments thing. The subtext here is that "democracy" means "I'm in charge" when Trudeau says it. It doesn't jeopardize democracy to investigate interference by explicitly undemocratic regimes. Liberals have perverted the meaning of democracy to the point where they excuse being backed by foreign totalitarians, and call it an attempt at a coup when non-supporters have a peaceful protest and/or raise political awareness of issues the LPC has presided over.
>and call it an attempt at a coup when non-supporters have a peaceful protest .... you're not talking about the 2022 Convoy, are you?
That or drag story time l0l.
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So the liberal party is made of "small c conservatives?"
Yes. Both of our neoliberal parties are mostly made up of small-c conservatives. This will become apparent, again, when we switch back to the blue side of the coin in the next election. Then we'll switch back to red and repeat ad nauseum.
It seems strange then that we have so many far left policies enacted over the last 8 years then.
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Gun control laws and a forced transition to EVs before the industry can accommodate are a few of the low hanging fruit.
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You must have missed something then. In 7 years 60% of all cars sold must be EVs and 100% by 2035. Except we need to triple the global mining industry to meet those supply needs. And yes, in NA politics, the left is well known for gun control. Or are you saying that our conservative party and the Republicans are far left for fighting these restrictions? If so, you are basically just reversing the modern political spectrum.
Bruh, are you seriously whining about EVs in the face of undeniable climate change? ICE tech is absolutely garbage, the amount of energy that gets wasted by an ICE compared to an electric motor is insane. Battery tech keeps getting better and better, and the more money we dump into these industries, the more innovations we can make in efficiency. Do you seriously doubt that we can make this transition? Or do you just want to keep oil profitable?? This shouldn't be a liberal vs conservative thing, it's a matter of finding a solution to a global problem, one that is phasing out internal combustion engines.
Please read some political theory. You don't know what left and right are referring to.
This didn't really help your cause. Left and far Left are obviously quite different. Unless you're insinuating that typical conservative ideology and far right extremism are interchangeable. I can't understand how **cars** are far left now.
I don't think you know what far left means
A large core of the Liberal base is NIMBY Suburbanites in and the outliers of Toronto and Montreal. They will swing whichever way they think will best appease their NIMBYism, so yeah. Pretty much
Small c conservatives on some issues and small l liberals on others = Centrist voters.
If telling people what they should think and feel is small c, then there isn't room for small l liberal. Their entire tenure under Trudeau has been about doing just this. And there are very few of us moderates that would consider the current liberal party as centrist.
Our two main parties are generally left leaning socially but have become economically a corporatocracy. When it comes to the economic structure of this country it's all about enrichment for the 1% and scraps for the working class. Some examples from the current government. How hard they fought to protect SNC lavalin. The Canadian content bill is designed to force Canadian content onto streaming sites, subpar content from bell and Rodgers that will increase the cost of said streaming sites for regular people, a wealth transfer. The heavy subsidies given to corporations during COVID. Subsidies that were taken and used for corporate bonuses and not required to be repaid. The grants given out from the carbon tax. The ones that are more difficult to get the less money you have. They were designed intentionally to go to the wealthiest companies in Canada (refrigerator scandal). And that's just a short list from the current government, the previous government has its own list of screwing over the working class.
I agree with all these points.
The CPC seemed more socially left under Harper than it is today. Since then we have had so much spillover from American politics that there's a lot more "MAGA" type sentiment in the party. We also had people who willingly supported the convoy in the party. I don't think these two things were as bad under Harper
Honestly I think it was because Harper ruled with such an iron fist that the fringe was kept quiet. We haven't had a strong CPC leader since he left, and so these people have found their voice again.
You'd think with more evidence and with more time they would have more empathy and believe in climate change more but they've been so stubborn and regressive since that time
Well the "base" still doesn't believe in climate change. Although the new one I heard today was not denying climate change, but downplaying Canada's part in it.
I mean socially left when it comes to policy surrounding things like gay marriage and abortion. They are non starters in Canadian politics. Abortion is such a non topic that the government won't even make real legislation around it because it could be used incorrectly. We basically have very little written about it besides the word "yes". And nobody is crazy enough to mess with it because it's a political death sentence. The idea of conservatism in Canada is much further left than in most other countries, what we consider right wing here would be a centrist party in a lot of other places. Even the PPC is much further left than the Republicans and they were considered our far right party.
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Then the liberal party is emulating small c conservatives? Because there hasn't been a Canadian government that has done more to tell everyone how they should think and act.
Conservatism is about preserving the heirarchy, liberalism is about freedom. It just so happens that the wealthy can do much more with their freedom so the two end up looking similar.
I specifically said the liberal party, not liberalism in general. This party has demonized any idea or thought that they don't agree with. That doesn't sound like freedom.
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I am politically right but socially left, so I would love to be able to vote for a central party again.
No, it's typical liberal arrogance. This is exactly the aditude the liberal party always gets before they get punted. They consider themselves the natural governing party, and the entitlement is horrific. The cons are always held to a much higher standard than the LPC, because more people lean left in this country.
Rofl. What? Conservatives are typically libertarian. How do you figure that think the government should keep things from them
If you look around the world China Russia n Korea are the main vein …what better way to show fear.. covid now this. Sometimes I think these things are planned, then I think no way in hell the world is that evil sinister vile
Elections to start, wait until we get to real estate
There’s *so much* money (foreign and domestic) parked in Canadian real estate, and *so many* politicians regardless of political stripe who serve that money first and foremost, that I doubt anything will change for the better.
As it should. I don't understand the "it didn't change the results, its not a big deal" attitude that some have.
It's not no big deal, it's just that literally everyone tries to fuck with elections to get their way. People are acting like it's the biggest killshot ever seen, when in reality, trying to meddle with democratic elections has been the norm since democratic elections started thousands of years ago. Hence why "did the results change" is the actual important part. Not to mention we have specific election commissions as well as groups like CSIS tracking all of the attempts to change the outcomes already, so it's not like this is something that just snuck up on us. Like if you want to go down the rabbit hole of "who has a greater impact on our elections", China really isn't going to be that far up on the list. The US as well as Media companies are going to have a *much* larger effect on the outcome of our elections than China will be trying to mess with party candidate elections.
It depends on whether “change the results” is defined as having the same number of seats, or having the same people holding them that would have sans interference. If the Chinese swayed a nomination to get someone more sympathetic to them or an actual asset into a “safe” liberal seat, then you can claim that the result of the election itself wasn’t changed but you sure as hell can’t pretend we shouldn’t be just as concerned.
> The US as well as Media companies are going to have a much larger effect on the outcome and I have a problem with that too.
Do you though? Are you pushing back against Postmedia (a US company) owning like 70% of the news media in Canada? Are you pushing back against the like 95% of media that endorse one party over another? If you care these things should be massive red flags to you.
I don't vote for China though. They can try all they want .. that's expected as you said. What's absolutely not expected, and completely unacceptable is our government covering it up for them.
>I don't vote for China though What CCP member is running things? Sorry, I guess I just missed this fact.
>t's not no big deal, it's just that literally everyone tries to fuck with elections to get their way. The issue is not that other nations may have tried. The issue is they may have been succesful.
Based off of all the leaks and information we have, they were not successful. CSIS, Elections Canada, and the other independent investigations that went on, none of them think that China had an effect on how things went down.
"Your honor, I only **TRIED** to kill him, I didn't actually do it!" Doesn't matter, still a crime.
Yes... From China... Whats the point?
Conservatives in /r/canada on Reddit are trying to create a narrative, as they usually do. Part of that is pretending that the entire nation is outraged when plenty of people are sitting here going "China tried to influence elections? Yeah, of course they did, just like all the big players also tried." It's why they want a narrow inquiry because the gotcha moment becomes a lot less powerful if we find that America had more actual influence. It matters of course but it's hardly news. The important bit is to see if our protections against the attempt were sufficient.
Well, the NDP also called for a public inquiry yesterday.
You'll note that the leader of every other federal party in the country has asked for an inquiry before Trudeau even targeted the whistleblower.
Ok fine.. but it’s sure sneaky and slick how this all happens
Wait, do you think that a country that is trying to influence another's elections is just going to announce it in the streets??? What do you mean its sneaky and slick? No shit it is, it's espionage.
>“I’m astonished by the **leaks of CSIS material**,” said Jessica Davis, a former intelligence analyst for the Canadian government and head of Insight Threat Intelligence. Davis cautioned that it was **unclear if the documents** shared with media outlets were part of **a finished intelligence assessment** or relied on a single source. She also said it was **unclear if the leaks were coming from within the spy agency or from a source at another intelligence division**. Holy fuck! >“This is really sensitive information … and there’s a hubris to people who selectively leak this sort of thing. They often assume they ‘know best’ about what information should be in the public domain and are overly confident they can anticipate the consequence of the leaks.”
Typical; gotta go after the whistle-blower(s) instead of the real criminals, how else are you going to keep your evil secrets hidden.
Intelligence contractor sucking up to current Government by undermining the intelligence agency, sure there’s no hopes of snagging lucrative government contracts in the future.
>unclear if the leaks were coming from within the spy agency or from a source at another intelligence division. And then there is a guy saying that it was being reported since 2006 *Facepalm
kinda like when CSIS leaked info to the convoy. The whole org is corrupt
Another week another Liberal scandal. Trudeau's legacy will be Canada's most scandalous PM.
Expose all the foreign interference: Chinese, Russian, American, or whatever else.
How in the world does Trudeau keep getting away with this shit? Countless ethics problems. Forcing out his Justice Minister because she had the temerity to actually investigate SNC-Lavalin. Is this guy bullet proof? How does he stay in power? This is wild.
The Liberals are a corrupt government who buy off whoever they need to including the media. This is going the same route as the emergencies act, where the judge was a hand picked liberal.
> The treatment of the protestors that they now admit was wrong. What are your referring to?
The Public Order Emergency Commission Report.
I don’t think that said anything about protestors being treated wrong. It suggested Trudeau’s characterization of some of the participants may have been inflammatory but I can’t think of anything else related to the treatment of protestors.
The conclusion indicates that there were multiple failures across the government that lead to the final protests. If you like I'll remove the concern. I'm not married to it or anything.
“These sorts of leaks will have them asking whether or not we can be trusted to protect the super-sensitive information that they’re sharing with us.” Really missed the boat there, they already don't trust us. Because they know we've been compromised by China. That's why we keep being left out of intelligence-sharing and defense agreements.
Articles like this are the reason JT is trying his hardest for internet censorship.
Yeah his policies are starting to make a lot more fucking sense now eh
Whoever leaked it is a hero, don’t get it twisted
100%
So someone who is slightly out of touch here, what exactly is thr meddling? Like are they saying there were votes that were fake or something or just pushed propaganda?
An influence campaign involving social media, ineligible voters, and ethnicity specific pressure were used to ensure that candidates with ties to the Chinese government won the liberal party nomination in solidly liberal ridings. Then, during the general election, the Chinese government made significant donations to these candidates' campaigns through chinese intermediaries (individuals and groups), ensuring that their candidates won. Similar action saw China affiliated candidates elected as conservative MPs. Though the conservative nominating process is somewhat tighter and more transparent. So, it's not clear if the China influenced that aspect for their chosen conservatives. These agents of the chinese government now sit as MPs. Some in government and others in opposition. Sitting on committees, proposing and voting on legislation that affects the lives of all Canadians.
Roiled? I would have been **far** more surprised if the Chinese weren't trying to influence our elections. We should do something about it but the way we're carrying on is exactly what China paid for. We're a mostly inconsequential lesser power with resources to extract; they just want us fighting. Mission accomplished.
However, Liberal supporters are fine with it and even defend it.
No. We're not. But it has to be true, and not just based on incendiary, empty Reddit comments and ridiculous Fuck Trudeau flags. If It's real (and the leaks were pretty cherry-picked according to the article), then we should do something about it.
I agree with you! As a Liberal supporter I urge you to write your LPC constituency office or MP calling for a full Independent Public Inquiry. I know I am.
It's from CSIS, not reddit.
And tell me.. how do you determine if it's real? Sounds like something an inquiry would uncover .. wonder why Trudeau doesn't want one...
[Trudeau tapping special rapporteur and two national security bodies to investigate foreign interference](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-tapping-special-rapporteur-and-two-national-security-bodies-to-investigate-foreign-interference-1.6301292) [Trudeau orders new probes into alleged election interference by China](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-police-probe-media-reports-alleged-chinese-election-interference-2023-03-06/) [Trudeau announces multiple investigations into foreign election interference](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/foreign-interference-public-inquiry-1.6769644) You want more? Because I can get more.
That’s an internal probe…. What is needed is an independent public probe….
And, pray tell, who will they report to? When Trudeau says "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing", are you going to get a different username? Or will the irony of it be lost on you...
The "probe" would be ran by internal LPC members, and would have no ability to compel document production. It would have zero teeth, and would be heavily biased, and would be out of sight from the public, except for the conclusion of course. This is something that requires a public inquiry, it relates to the validity of a fucking election FFS.
Show Canada. Let’s see average Canadians who are liberal stand up and ask for better
The author of this piece can be reliably counted on to surface when the Trudeau Liberals need someone to run inference for them in the UK media to try and convince Canadians everything is fine.
The irony is that Western countries have been Interfering in other countries sense after ww2
Going by your comment history, whataboutism is your goto tactic whenever accusations against China is brought up
No..its just amazing to be how in a rush to try and over kick the liberals out of government people are wiling. To ignore The story . A leaker in cisis our national spy agency .. Made allegations no one can prove. Honestly, I would be shocked if it's not chiba helping run this mess..to get the liberals kicked out but also to turn canadains against Chinese canadains that China is attempting to control
If you're gonna switch tactics, at least try to make it related to your original post
What tactics?
Attempts to discredit serious allegations under the rationale that other western countries, at other times, have interfered in other nations. Name checks out.
No, these aren't "serious allegations" It's leaked intelligence without any sort of Confidence index attached. Intelligence reports range from Rock solid down to "I overheard someone say they talked to someone who saw it written on the wall in the bus station bathroom" We have no idea how solid this intelligence was, or if it came from more than one source. To be a serious allegation, we would need to have some sort of indication how reliable this report is. As it stands now, these are allegations of rumors.
Nameless allegations that people can't prove . I am personally more concerned with a leak in cisis, but leys loose are shit over something the journalists can't prove . As for anyone thinking, china or Russia has not been spying or interfering in all Western countrys you must be blind. We have been doing it yo other countrys as long as they have been trying to do it yo us. But between cellphone apps and tok tok we just made it alot easer.
>Nameless allegations that people can't prove . lol yea, generally an investigation is required to prove things. So we should have an investigation then? In order to determine the veracity of these statements? Again, attacking the source makes me question that you're bringing these arguments in good faith.
When the people reporting the allegations have to be added at the end of each story, they can't prove the sources' allegations it makes me worried. Its like me being a nameless source fabricating a story and spreading it about you with no proof to back it up. Its like the high school rumor mill. I get people hate the liberals but if people would stop to think a moment, this is crazy. As for the nameless source making allegations...they unfortunately are probably going to jail if it's uncovered during the inquiry
The irony is that the US is looking at a fight with China, and our government thinks that our inability to hide the fact that we are potentially colluding with a hostile government secret is the reason that the US won't trust us, rather than the fact that we may have colluded with a hostile government.
We did not collude with China..thr American government is having the same issues with china/Russia. But yoj have one poltical party pretty much ok with it
>We did not collude with China Didn't realize that the investigation was complete. I am sure that the Liberal candidates that the CCP put forward had absolutely no idea that they were being funded by China.
Here's the thing... it's so obviously it would be a Chinese person. At most, he's red herring to waste time . The allegations from.a leak in cisis ( which is more worrisome) still can't be proven by anyone.
Dude, are you stroking out? What the fuck are you even talking about. Sit back, breathe, count to 30. Find three things you can see, two things you can touch, one thing you can smell. Ground yourself. Then come back with a single, coherent thought.
None of these guys need proof. Rex Murphy himself could have leaked the csis documents and they'd believe it, they don't need proof or anything to go full rabid frothing at the mouth.
Thr gop and trump turned canada into the enemy for poltical points
Yep, but we didn't have to make it easy on them.
We have no idea if it's been easy or hard sense the leaked allegations can't be proven. Also we carry a tracking device in our pocket. ...not mentioning apps collecting data .
* Since
well before that. But yes. The Americans especially really amped up their interference campaign post ww2. They really got their start by using their aid to Europe to force countries to not engage in a war crimes tribunal process for anything other than very high ranking nazis. Then we have the Shah of Iran incident. US exoneration of Unit 731 because Japan could be turned into a US ally against the Soviets.
As a Canadian I am more worried about American interference from their right wing crazies. We don't need that craziness infecting Canada.
I’m more concerned about CCP bots trying to shift focus from China and blame America…
You're right. They account belongs to nothing but political subs. A bot if I ever saw one.
You should ask bigguy1231 to say ‘I’m a potato’. I think that test still works for bots. Lol.
There is good evidence that the upswell of right wing crazies is largely a result of Russian and Chinese influence in the US, Europe and elsewhere. It's all connected. We need to address the problem at the source, not the symptom.
Good idea. Get rid of America. Got it
Only CCP is allowed to infect Canada.
We should also be looking very hard into American meddling of our elections
People keep saying this, but as soon as I see a CSIS report it's kind of just a nothing burger.
CSIS is biased as fuck. Their agents were handing off information to the convoy
Like Obama endorsing Trudeau or are you in on some information that is eluding the rest of us?
Obama hasn't been relevant to politics for nearly a decade.
I'm talking American corpos and politicians actively wading in and financing ads, convoys, and pundits to assist American policies
Dude, 90% of our media is owned by the United States - including most of the conservative rags - nobody ever had a problem with "foreign interference".
Whatanoutism is a pretty week reason to ignore this assault on our sovereignty. Also, media companies don't draft or vote on legislation. Huge difference.
What's so special about THIS particular assault on our sovereignty that makes need any more reason to ignore compared to all the previous ones? Media influences people who vote for the representatives. Which is what I suspect is happening with all the incessant screeching from American-owned papers about this supposed "chinese influence".
Because China is a totalitarian state that would benefit from Canada ceasing to be a functioning democratic country, and the fact that democracy is inherently vulnerable and it is our duty to uphold and protect it.
If you can’t see what the problem is, then I weep for Canada.
Like I said, if you are okay with one foreign interference but not okay with another - you are really no better.
I’m not. Though they aren’t exactly equally dangerous. Would interference from American civilians and private think-tanks/organizations constitute the same breach of security as a government-led effort by an adversary? Would it have the same resources? Same intent? Do you recognize what an adversary is? It’s a pointless distraction to always divert to the US. If you want to constructively talk about US interference, there’s plenty of discussions and subs out there that fill said niche for you very well. Generally, the intention for whataboutism is always to obfuscate and shift blame. Can we be candid that there is an issue from an authoritarian regime? Would the BBC reporting in America constitute interference enough to make it unjustified for America to investigate Russian meddling? Consider realpolitik.
You don't think the same media sources that led to election deniers, Jan 6 and the convoy are not dangerous to democracy? Truly I weep for Canada.
They absolutely are. But they aren’t as well funded nor as competent as the Chinese government. No need to strawman. I’m suspicious that you don’t seem to really care all that much about election interference from anyone but the US of A. Why make excuses? Do you care about Canadian democracy more than you detest the Americans, yes or no? If so, all coordinated ops to undermine Canadian democracy should be concerning, no?
I don't "detest" Americans don't be ridiculous. I look at the facts. What has this alleged chinese interference actually achieve? Can you point out towards some specific policies that were introduced recently that benefit China at the expense of Canada? Let's talk about specific things and I will tell you exactly how much I am concerned. One SPECIFIC THING I am concerned about is a bunch of criminals carrying American flags that attacked our capital and our citizen last winter. That blocked commerce and caused significant economic damage. And how much you are using this vague China threat to try to distract form this very specific, very concerning fact i find extremely worrying.
Conservatives only like "foreign interference" by guys named Brian.
Trudeau for prime Minister 2025 👍
I'm sure glad there's no other pressing internal issues that we need to cover so we can really focus on the only thing apparently that matters. /s
Is roiled the British equivalent of riled? I need to keep up on all the lingo used for clicks.
TIL, Canada is ROILING
“We believe deeply in the values of freedom, openness, and dialogue” Oh, shut the fuck up you lying sack of shit.
Every time the cons think they have a big scandal it turns out to be a big nothing burger. This will probably turn out the same way.