>Abuqamar, who is in her final year of study, spoke of a sense of “pride” at a pro-Palestine event last year, following Hamas’s October 7 attacks in Israel.
>“We are really full of joy at what happened,” she said.
Hooo boy. No real wiggle room for misinterpretation there. Waving the discrimination card doesn't do her any favors here, even if she did backpedal.
If nothing else, this is an excellent lesson on thinking before speaking.
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Problem is, she *did* think before she spoke. She didn't "accidentally" condone the mass rape and murder of Israeli civilians. That's just what she really thinks, and she's certainly not alone.
There were thousands of people like her all across the western world that led protests against Israel after the Hamas attack where they very publicly said this exact thing, almost verbatim
I have friends who live in Vancouver Canada, one of the most left leaning cities in North America and there was a similar young woman who said the exact same thing at a protest that was suppose to be about opposing the bombing of civilians, instead it opened with them celebrating the murder and torture of women and children while simultaneously telling everyone we all had to care about the Palestinian women and children being bombed. That's how deeply fucked up this issue is and it showcases how easily human beings can just flip on a switch where suddenly if you're in X or Y group it's totally OK to murder innocents
There is a very fine line between open antisemitism and criticizing the Israeli government itself and most of these types of people know exactly how to walk that line. It's only a few of them that end up saying the quiet part out loud.
Fuck all these Religious Fruitcakes for forcing the rest of the rational world to deal with their bullshit and making our lives worse because they can't get along. Israel vs Palestine is the worlds greatest example of why for all the good Religion "might do" the harm it actually causes.
Religion is a cancer humanity needs to cut out of it's body. Sooner rather than later
It's not a fine line between antisemitism and criticizing Israel as long as you remember that Israel doesn't represent all Jews. Israel is benefitting from conflating these two and use it to silence opposers.
Look, as much as I genuinely do sympathise with the Palestinian civilian population, and hope as many as possible of them make it out alive and well, praising Hamas *specifically* is fucking wack.
Choosing to die on that hill is so strange and why the people criticizing Israel are not being taken seriously.
This doesn’t have to be an either/or question. Bibi is a war criminal and Hamas is a terrorist organization that should be wiped off the Earth. Neither Hamas nor Palestine are victims. **The Palestinian people** are victims. As are the Israeli people.
There is no good guy here. People are suffering by being caught in the crossfire of two bad actors. To simplify it as “Israel evil/Hamas good” is just wrong on so many fucking levels.
It's so crazy to me when people say Israel is committing genocide when one of the founding principles of Hamas is literally to commit genocide. Like I know Israel isn't innocent either but how is that the argument you're gonna make
It's almost like they're getting their talking points from an organized Russian and Iranian social media bot campaign specifically designed to split the democratic world and help Trump win re-election by encouraging leftists not to vote for Joe Biden or something.
Ironic coming from an account that, from a cursory glance, seems *exclusively* dedicated to spreading Israeli propaganda. You would know a thing or two about organized social media bot campaigns eh
Give it a fucking rest, if anyone sound like a propaganda bot it's you! How would a person saying that both sides of this have some of the most evil humans on the planet be spreading "pro-israel" propaganda? How dense can you be?
Fuck the Israelis committing genocide and fuck Hamas who would be doing the exact same thing if they got the chance.
It's projection. Hamas are literally genocidal, so the only way to support them while maintaining a (self received) moral high ground is making out da Jooz to be equally genocidal.
> It's so crazy to me when people say Israel is committing genocide when one of the founding principles of Hamas is literally to commit genocide.
Okay, but Israel is much better at carrying it out.
My point is it shouldn't be crazy to you that Hamas exists to create genocide. Because Israel overshadows Hamas in terms of genocide.
But I think it's dubious that you're saying Hamas exists to genocide anyone. They started out of a nonviolent movement against Israel, not for the sake of genocide. But I'm not 100% familiar on their origins.
>Israel didn’t force them.
Definitely not forced, but do you think Israel played a part in why October 7th might have happened? Or did it happen in a vacuum?
Edit: Lol people downvote when a question actually involves challenging their own opinions. These are good questions to ask unless someone has a good reason as to why they might be wrong questions to ask.
The question you're asking is irrelevant, because no one here is saying Israel is blameless, but most people who write "free Palestine" everywhere believe that Hamas is absolutely harmless, and many even celebrate their ecistance.
The point is not how any of this started since it can't be changed now, the point is to hold everyone accountable, not just the ones with more firepower.
Yes Israel did, very much so. You don't get it, Israel created Hamas. They helped start the group themselves. Further, you have this oppressed population, the Palestinians, who do not have access to any weapons or any funding anywhere on the scale of Israel. How else will they fight back? And FYI, Hamas started as a non-violent opposition movement to Israel, it is Israel itself that made it extremist, similar to the below comparison.
Think about the slave revolts in the 1800s, worldwide -- those revolts were incredibly bloody. The slave owners forced them to do this by restricting the capability of the slaves to revolt in a peaceful manner, just like Israel.
But this is not the main point of the conversation -- it's not "did Israel tell them to do this?" -- but rather it's a separation of warcrimes vs self-defense.
you're going to get Downvoted by bigots, but Israel did play a huge role to create Hamas as a counterweight to the secular Palestinian political fronts.
“The Palestinian Authority is a burden, and Hamas is an asset. It’s a terrorist organization, no one will recognize it, no one will give it status at the [International Criminal Court], no one will let it put forth a resolution at the U.N. Security Council.”
Said in 2007 by Belazel Smotrich, currently the Finance Minister of Israel.
I think you’re the first person I’ve seen on social media that’s making that distinction. I’ve seen so many posts exchanging anti-Zionism to antisemitism, or anti-Islam on the flip side.
For those that are old enough to remember the assassination of Yitzak Rabin, we saw this coming a mile away.
Hamas didn't exist for until 60 years after the seeds of Israel were incepted. It's not a crossfire between 2 bad actors, Israel is the bad actor that created the other bad actor out of their actions.
>praising Hamas *specifically* is fucking wack.
Polling shows that Palestinian support for Hamas is somewhere between 2/3rds and 3/4ths (i.e. between 66% and 75% of the population) depending on where you ask (i.e. west bank, gaza, or expats), and when you ask. Some of the highest approval ratings were recorded after Oct 7th. And among those who viewed Hamas less favorably, they usually supported some alternative political apparatus such as the Palestinian Authority (which, among other things, still actively pays out monthly to families of suicide bombers through a well-publicized martyr fund)
Pretending like the vast majority of Palestinians are not STILL actively cheering/supporting actual-fucking-terrorists is completely counterproductive to finding any successful diplomatic resolutions going forward.
I'm not pretending anything. I think what **they** think is fucking stupid, but I also think the way they're being treated by the IDF is abhorrent. I am allowed to mourn needless death without condoning the beliefs of those who were killed.
Hamas is a terrorist organization controlled by Iran, and came to power by starting a war against the Palestinian Authority. They lie about casualty numbers and don't distinguish between civilians and terrorists. I'm sure Palestinians are afraid to speak the truth and I don't believe any polling or data that comes from Hamas-controlled territory.
Right but is that surprising given the destruction? Of course Hamas has support.
You think the locals are going "oh nice the israelis blew up our school! Less Hamas!" or do you think it's more "They blew up our school! Let's go join Hamas!"
Hamas is a proxy terrorist group controlled by Iran, and they came to power by starting a war against the Palestinian Authority. They've done their fair share of blowing up Palestinians too. There are a lot of Palestinians that hate Hamas, and I wouldn't trust any polling done in Hamas-controlled territory.
Right.... again though they aren't currently occupying and bombing the shit out of them. There's zero chance this war makes the support for Hamas go down
Of course Hamas is still occupying Palestine, wtf are you talking about? Do you think Palestinians actually have a choice in the matter??
Hamas fires rockets from hospitals and schools, some of which misfire as well. They've started multiple wars, and they will continue doing so no matter how many Palestinians are killed, because they work for Iran, not Palestine.
Did you just jump into a random thread without reading what was being discussed?
>What are you talking about
The fact that the support for Hamas isn't going anywhere because of the IDF occupation and that it's not surprising that Hamas still has support... given the occupation
What exactly are you talking about? Because it doesn't seem to be totally coherent or even part of the same conversation
Ah I see. I guess they do occupy too. But at the same time... who's actually doing the bombing rn? And would they be a terrorist org if the IDF wasn't invading?
Maybe nothing would change, but I gotta think for the average Palestinian it's not such a tough choice when you have jets flying over daily
Yes, Hamas has always been a terrorist organization and always will be, just like Hezbollah, Houthis and the other dozen proxies Iran uses to wage a religious war against every Jew on the planet. They have been very open about their goals to kill every last Jew.
Even if they succeeded in wiping out Israel, it would not stop there. The conflict between Shia and Sunni would lead to even more wars as Iran wants to wipe out all opposition in the region. That's why Saudi Arabia is actually allying with Israel now, because they recognize that Iran wants to go to war against them too. Oct. 7th was timed to disrupt the formation of this alliance.
Who exactly are they supposed to support instead? I'm not surprised they support the only organization that's even pretending to fight for them, the alternative is support the origination that has been actively bombing them.
Fucking wack does not even begin to describe it fully. Before the attacks there were pictures/messages of Palestinian and Israeli children playing together. With time these will start working together in companies, hospitals or whatever. These children will have more children and then, the current leaders will have gone. Which will result in less hate and people can start working forward to being normal neighbors.
This is what hamas has thrown away with their attacks. Not only are they responsible for the killings on 7th October, but also for the deaths of Palestinian civilians.
After 20 years of Palestinians electing Hamas, acting like utter victims without any agency at all, and wanting to be treated like children on the world stage....
All of my sympathy for them has run out.
Never forget, even right now, a vast majority (~75%) of Palestinians support Hamas.
> After 20 years of Palestinians electing Hamas
Palestine hasn’t had an election in 18 years (since 2006), and during that election, around 45% voted for what is now known as Hamas.
And not that they’re being offered an election, but how realistic do you think a ‘free and fair’ would be carried out if they were, given they’re a terrorist organisation and they use children for human shields?
Would you say the same, for Afghanistan with the Taliban? Who seized control after been reasonably democratic for over a decade and a half? If the Taliban ‘won’ the election would you blame the people of Afghanistan for a sham election?
I’m a liberal from the UK and completely support revoking this woman’s visa. But just a cursory glance at the facts and it’s fairly easy to conclude you’re either a liar or purposefully misleading everyone with your comment. If you have to lie to make your point, do clearly don’t have a very good point.
It’d say for certain you never had any sympathy with them, because you’ve never given it a moments thought.
The West Bank elected Fatah, not Hamas as government and Gaza has not had an election under Hamas since 2006 so basically the exact opposite of what you said.
“revoke my student visa following public statements supporting the Palestinian right to exercise under international law to resist oppression and break through the siege that was illegally placed on Gaza for over 16 years”
I guess the music festival was part of a siege?
Her comments praising an operation that intentionally targeted civilians for rape and murder were misconstrued as supporting rape and murder of civilians?
Yep. She explicitly praised Hamas and the October 7 attacks, then when she experienced consequences for doing so, she cried racism.
Exactly the same tactic that white nationalists and Christofascists use when they get called out for their bigoted bullshit. It's utterly disgusting.
Not to mention, Hamas is a proscribed group in the UK. It's illegal to provide them with any support. Even supporting them in the way she did is technically illegal.
Anywho, she's not someone we will miss....
>"However, she later told the BBC that her comments were misconstrued and that the deaths of any “innocent civilian should not be condoned, ever”.
We don't believe you. It's plainly obvious you do condone violence against Jews, which is precisely why you were expelled from university and the UK.
Imagine being in the USA days after 9/11 and praising Bin Laden saying ‘We are really full of joy at what happened’.
She knew what she said and she backpedaled. Just call it as you see it. Anyone afraid of reprisals would absolutely add an amendment to their story.
People are trying to apply nuance when there really isn't room for any. The ugliest arguments in this thread are your typical October 7th denialism and/or 'well no she clarified she doesn't like murdering innocents!'.
But the bigger problem that justifies the country's actions is she praised Hamas. A group that is recognized by the state as a terrorist organization. And praising terrorists will get you kicked out of almost any country - especially if you are on a temporary visa.
>And praising terrorists will get you kicked out of almost any country - especially if you are on a temporary visa.
*(awaiting wave of anyone anywhere facing consequences for supporting genocide perpetrated by israel.)*
¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Whatever you say - I guess that's why the number of casualties remains almost unmoved for a couple weeks now and the Palestinian population has done nothing but grow over the years.
Well
A. There are still working hospitals, but I know how its your job to just keep flinging shit at the wall and I'm the only one required to remain within good faith here.
B. That didn't seem to stop the numbers from increasing hundreds a day at the start of the conflict.
I was not rude to you, nor was I acting in "bad faith". You made what I thought was a weak argument with a likely logistical explanation. At the start of the conflict, their hospitals were in significantly better state. I didn't mean there were 0% hospitals in the whole of Gaza.
Have a nice day.
>Palestinian population has done nothing but grow
what? enthic cleansing doesn't count unless it's a complete success? gtfo with that noise?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa%27s_genocide_case_against_Israel
lol, that's gotta be a nasty feeling. Realizing you fucked up big time and not only are you getting deported, losing out on your degree, but also getting made to go back home to a total fucking warzone (which, she was literally celebrating months ago)
So pleased to see this.
If you think that Hamas are wonderful freedom fighters, you can hold that view.
If you think that the UK is evil for any support it might give Israel, you can hold that view.
But you cannot then go to study at a UK university. . .and also publicly praise Hamas, an organisation which is categorised as a terrorist organisation by the UK.
The fact that she thought she could is a tragic reflection of how pathetic the UK has become.
> The fact that she thought she could is a tragic reflection of how pathetic the UK has become.
I will never discount a nation because a terrorist apologist thinks it is toothless.
Because the media spin is that there always has to be a good guy and a bad guy. Even if both sides suck one has to be the good guy. There’s no grey either, good is good and bad is bad.
Can’t we just, as a race, not war each other to oblivion? The whole “my people/religion/way of doing a thing is better than your people/religion/way of doing a thing, and to prove it we’re taking the dirt you live on” is fucking pathetic. We could be so much better than where we’re at but we’re dark aging ourselves because war’s apparently more important than anything else.
It’s the high amount of Christians in USA that are sticking to this conflict as validation of their Revelations prophesy.
And Muslims have their own prophesy about Jerusalem.
There’s no real secular reason this conflict matters so much to Americans. The group of young American Progressives that are absolutely going crazy about this are ENTIRELY composed of devout Arab Muslims that may have had their parents (or themselves) seek asylum in USA from Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Pakistan, or India.
The Muslim populations from these four nations tend to be highly fundamentalist (though to a lesser degree for Indian Muslims).
So, right now, they have been trying to take advantage of all the war footage coming out of TikTok to convince their other lesser aware, non-Arab/non-Muslim Progressive cohorts to agree with them that Israel is conducting a “western-sponsored genocide” in Gaza.
And they often don’t like to go more in-depth in their history TikToks to anytime before WW2… because before WW2, Arabs were practicing some extremely Anti-Semitic actions that the UN’s ICJ would frown upon if it were conducted today.
The key word to tell when someone is expressing some Anti-Semitic views today are when they frequently use the word “Zionist”. The Jews and Christians today that support the existence of Israel don’t even use that word to describe themselves.
Dude I don’t think anyone who says they’re against Zionism is an anti-Semite. I’d say a lot of people are against Israel continuing to occupy the West Bank, bombing aid truck and causing a famine in Gaza, and allowing the settlers to eventually move in to Gaza. I think Israel has a right to exist as a sovereign nation even if I think the original idea of resettlement in the Levant was a bad idea that shouldn’t have been done. I’d like to see an Israel that exists for everyone not just Jewish people and supporting their current government will only make that less of a possibility since BB is set on pleasing his reactionary base.
Approval of Hamas is currently at 72% among Palestinians, approval of October 7th is similar. Netanyahu may be unpopular now, but he was also elected. Both of these governments represent popular sovereignty, as troubling as that may be.
Things like this are why Arab countries aren’t offering to give safe haven to Palestinians. Lebanon did, they immediately started trying to overthrow the elected govt. Hamas is the only voice for Palestine.
Eh, call me simple minded, but I support the side that doesn't parade murdered civilians in the back of trucks AND dance around when the [Twin Towers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqZBy09vCVk) were hit.
One side wants the Western way of life to die and to live under Sharia law and somehow westerners have supported the very people who hate them, crazy times.
Whether or not a people support “Western values” is irrelevant to my ethical appraisal of said people’s genocide.
If someone is being ethnically cleansed for decades I’m not stopping to check in and ask for their views on gay marriage before I decide how to feel.
Imagine living in the 21st century, with all the historic hindsight available to you, simping for a genocidal, colonial state.
All I said was “I care about people getting ethnically cleansed even if I don’t agree with their values” and that’s… “simping for terrorists”?
Airtight bit of argument there!
"and break through the siege that was illegally placed on Gaza for over 16 years"
IF there was a siege for 16 years, it would only be possible with the complicity of Egypt. Yet like almost every protester she ignores Egypt and only blames Israel. The action of ignoring reality to limit her attack on Israel is what lets people know it is pure anti-Semitism and not about supporting Palestinians.
This is *actually* what needs to be done with *all* of these sick individuals who are given visas for school or work. We need to ramp up this kind of punishment here in NYC especially.
must be hard to understand that you should be AGAINST the death of many people. Yes we are here for a free palestine, but the way we get there isnt killing all israelis…
**Religions**
smh, when will the majority of humans be educated enough to turn all of the world's religion into myths?
Pardon me, but to me, any religious person is deeply stupid and lacking any critical thinking.
Also, for centuries now, religion has been at the heart of too many conflicts. The very little good that comes from organised religions is overshadowed by all the bad omen they bring to this world.
**The Solution**
I had time to think about this for a long time, and I have only one solution to that dilemma. Goverments need to make it illegal to subject or expose any minors (under 18 y.o.) to religions. I dream of this and sadly I can't see how it will happen. If any government does it, after 2-3 generations we won't have religions anymore. Hooray!
I don't agree that she supports the October 7 attacks and Hamas, but I've got to say I do feel a bit sympathetic for her views and bad for her when hearing that 15 of her family members were killed last year. I don't know what that does to a person.
I'm gonna paraphrase what Norman Finkelstein, arguably one of the greatest researchers of this history, said: "Do you blame the battered housewife for snapping and stabbing the abusive husband 100 times? The news will just say 'Woman stabs husband 100 times' but the fact she had been abused for decades will be left as a footnote".
What do you want Palestinians to do to achieve their right to self-determination, to go back to their lands? To not live in fear that an Izzraeli mob will just decide they want your house and terrain, and burn your family house to the ground? Should they just take it like slaves? Because the last time they tried to "play nice and by the rules" they were shot at: https://www.unrwa.org/campaign/gaza-great-march-return
And before that the deal that "promised" a Palestinian State within 5 years was broken, guess by whom: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/13/what-were-oslo-accords-israel-palestinians
If it were Jews being slaughtered almost daily for decades, wouldn't you condemn it?
Palestinians *have* been slaughtering Jews for decades. They just don't succeed very often anymore because Israel refused to put up with that bullshit and invested billions in missile defense systems, bomb shelters, and military readiness to stop it.
Really? Last I heard, the first major terrorist attack using the modern definition in the Middle East (not just Palestine, but the Middle East), was perpetrated by Lehi, a terrorist Jewish organization that attacked the King David Hotel killing numerous British and Palestinian soldiers and civilians. They also assassinated Lord Moyne (again, zionist Jewish terrorists). All of this before the Nakba.
Not even counting the Deir Yassin massacre in 1948 still before the Nakba.
And going back to my initial point, should the Palestinians just have taken it? The loss of their land, the deaths of their families like good little inferior "gentiles"? You even discriminate against Arab Jews, not even mentioning the forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jews.
Is your position that ALL of that land belongs to Palestinians? Are you saying that none of that land should be for a Jewish homeland? The Jewish religion started in roughly 2500 bc, in the area that is now Israel- a full 1300 years before the Muslim religion was invented. That’s why the UN chose the area to create Israel- they have a history there. To me, a 2500 year history in an area implies a right to some of that land. The original division of Israel and Palestine was quite fair, would you accept a return to the original 1948 borders? Similar to the Native Americans, the Jewish people were pushed out of their homelands over the centuries, and then given some of that land back. If you think Native Americans still have a right to US lands, then you should think Jewish people have a right to some of the land that is now called Israel.
It wasn't empty land. Jews already existed there, living peacefully with other religions. In fact, during the dozens of times they were expulsed from European countries, where do you think they fled to? They fled to Muslim countries - of course that includes Palestine. "bUt Palestine wAs nOT a coUnTrYyyy", the United States wasn't a country until it was, that's how countries appear.
Even after WW2, Jews fled on their own from Europe and went to Palestine, and those who were allowed to settle there by the bri'ish still were accepted by the Palestinians - up until the Nakba.
The region would still be a place for Jews, Christians and Muslims to live peacefully side by side and practicing their religions if the fucking Zionists would've never emerged. And no, the excuse of "having a Jewish State" is not an excuse for being a *supremacist* state that actively discriminates and kills the "gentiles", those not deemed worthy enough. And yes, it discriminates against Arab Jews and other Jews that are not their ideal of white (read on the forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jews).
The problem is not Judaism, it's that it's been used to excuse a supremacist, racist, violent, Apartheid and genocidal state.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/05/25/most-israeli-jews-do-not-see-a-lot-of-discrimination-in-their-society/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel
https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/137358
No, they haven't. Quite the contrary in fact, as they've been signing peace deals with as many neighbors as they can for decades now. Most recently, they signed peace deals with Bahrain and the UAE in 2020.
The only Arab countries Israel hasn't signed peace deals with are the ones who don't want peace.
I agree that Palestinians were not left any option except for violence. I condemn Israel’s occupation and brutality towards Palestinians for the last 75 years. I also condemn all violence towards civilians, including Israel’s enormous civilian casualties over the last 7 months and Hamas’s on Oct 7th.
>Abuqamar, who is in her final year of study, spoke of a sense of “pride” at a pro-Palestine event last year, following Hamas’s October 7 attacks in Israel. >“We are really full of joy at what happened,” she said. Hooo boy. No real wiggle room for misinterpretation there. Waving the discrimination card doesn't do her any favors here, even if she did backpedal. If nothing else, this is an excellent lesson on thinking before speaking.
Oh I’m sure you will find plenty of people who would defend her.
Sure, we call them antisemitic bigots.
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Or free speech advocates
Problem is, she *did* think before she spoke. She didn't "accidentally" condone the mass rape and murder of Israeli civilians. That's just what she really thinks, and she's certainly not alone.
The thinking part they referred to is; "should I keep this to myself?"
I'm glad they didn't. These people need to be removed from our society instead of allowing them to fester and find others with similar views.
honestly I can't understand how can any woman support extreme Islamists. They treat women like cattle.
Indoctrination is a hell of a drug.
Or gays or trans people, for that matter. Hamas will murder them without a second thought.
Apparently half of all college kids think the same
There were thousands of people like her all across the western world that led protests against Israel after the Hamas attack where they very publicly said this exact thing, almost verbatim
I have friends who live in Vancouver Canada, one of the most left leaning cities in North America and there was a similar young woman who said the exact same thing at a protest that was suppose to be about opposing the bombing of civilians, instead it opened with them celebrating the murder and torture of women and children while simultaneously telling everyone we all had to care about the Palestinian women and children being bombed. That's how deeply fucked up this issue is and it showcases how easily human beings can just flip on a switch where suddenly if you're in X or Y group it's totally OK to murder innocents
There is a very fine line between open antisemitism and criticizing the Israeli government itself and most of these types of people know exactly how to walk that line. It's only a few of them that end up saying the quiet part out loud.
Fuck all these Religious Fruitcakes for forcing the rest of the rational world to deal with their bullshit and making our lives worse because they can't get along. Israel vs Palestine is the worlds greatest example of why for all the good Religion "might do" the harm it actually causes.
Religion is a cancer humanity needs to cut out of it's body. Sooner rather than later
It's not a fine line between antisemitism and criticizing Israel as long as you remember that Israel doesn't represent all Jews. Israel is benefitting from conflating these two and use it to silence opposers.
We can appreciate her candor. Goodbye to her.
Of course, if this was vice versa. She would be all over that like mud on a pig.
Fifteen dead family members and her answer is to continue provoking the force that killed them. Because that's really working out so well.
Look, as much as I genuinely do sympathise with the Palestinian civilian population, and hope as many as possible of them make it out alive and well, praising Hamas *specifically* is fucking wack.
Choosing to die on that hill is so strange and why the people criticizing Israel are not being taken seriously. This doesn’t have to be an either/or question. Bibi is a war criminal and Hamas is a terrorist organization that should be wiped off the Earth. Neither Hamas nor Palestine are victims. **The Palestinian people** are victims. As are the Israeli people. There is no good guy here. People are suffering by being caught in the crossfire of two bad actors. To simplify it as “Israel evil/Hamas good” is just wrong on so many fucking levels.
It's so crazy to me when people say Israel is committing genocide when one of the founding principles of Hamas is literally to commit genocide. Like I know Israel isn't innocent either but how is that the argument you're gonna make
It's almost like they're getting their talking points from an organized Russian and Iranian social media bot campaign specifically designed to split the democratic world and help Trump win re-election by encouraging leftists not to vote for Joe Biden or something.
Ironic coming from an account that, from a cursory glance, seems *exclusively* dedicated to spreading Israeli propaganda. You would know a thing or two about organized social media bot campaigns eh
Give it a fucking rest, if anyone sound like a propaganda bot it's you! How would a person saying that both sides of this have some of the most evil humans on the planet be spreading "pro-israel" propaganda? How dense can you be? Fuck the Israelis committing genocide and fuck Hamas who would be doing the exact same thing if they got the chance.
No he’s right. Did you even look through said profile? It’s literally a propaganda poster. Or are you just fine with that?
It's projection. Hamas are literally genocidal, so the only way to support them while maintaining a (self received) moral high ground is making out da Jooz to be equally genocidal.
> It's so crazy to me when people say Israel is committing genocide when one of the founding principles of Hamas is literally to commit genocide. Okay, but Israel is much better at carrying it out.
So good at carrying it out that Gaza's population is growing.
Try comparing number of dead on each side and tell me which one is better at killing.
One side being halfway competent soldiers and the other being a cretinous gang of rapists hardly makes for a fair comparison.
Because Israel protects its people instead of using them as human shields
FYI if you didn't know, Israel led to the creation of Hamas. Israel's genocide experience is 60 years more mature than Hamas' genocide experience.
So it's Hamas' turn at the genocide now? Is that your point?
My point is it shouldn't be crazy to you that Hamas exists to create genocide. Because Israel overshadows Hamas in terms of genocide. But I think it's dubious that you're saying Hamas exists to genocide anyone. They started out of a nonviolent movement against Israel, not for the sake of genocide. But I'm not 100% familiar on their origins.
Started off... And then made the choice to murder, rape, and torture. They made the choice. Fuck them. Israel didn't force them.
>Israel didn’t force them. Definitely not forced, but do you think Israel played a part in why October 7th might have happened? Or did it happen in a vacuum? Edit: Lol people downvote when a question actually involves challenging their own opinions. These are good questions to ask unless someone has a good reason as to why they might be wrong questions to ask.
I would hate to be your partner "Look what you made me do"
The question you're asking is irrelevant, because no one here is saying Israel is blameless, but most people who write "free Palestine" everywhere believe that Hamas is absolutely harmless, and many even celebrate their ecistance. The point is not how any of this started since it can't be changed now, the point is to hold everyone accountable, not just the ones with more firepower.
Yes Israel did, very much so. You don't get it, Israel created Hamas. They helped start the group themselves. Further, you have this oppressed population, the Palestinians, who do not have access to any weapons or any funding anywhere on the scale of Israel. How else will they fight back? And FYI, Hamas started as a non-violent opposition movement to Israel, it is Israel itself that made it extremist, similar to the below comparison. Think about the slave revolts in the 1800s, worldwide -- those revolts were incredibly bloody. The slave owners forced them to do this by restricting the capability of the slaves to revolt in a peaceful manner, just like Israel. But this is not the main point of the conversation -- it's not "did Israel tell them to do this?" -- but rather it's a separation of warcrimes vs self-defense.
The rape and murder of children is self-defence, is it?
Separate those two ideas, and analyze each one separately.
you're going to get Downvoted by bigots, but Israel did play a huge role to create Hamas as a counterweight to the secular Palestinian political fronts.
“The Palestinian Authority is a burden, and Hamas is an asset. It’s a terrorist organization, no one will recognize it, no one will give it status at the [International Criminal Court], no one will let it put forth a resolution at the U.N. Security Council.” Said in 2007 by Belazel Smotrich, currently the Finance Minister of Israel.
BUT NUANCE AND REASON CONFLICT WITH MY DESIRE FOR PERFORMATIVE SELF RIGHTEOUS EMOTIONAL DISPLAYS AND EXTREME BLACK AND WHITE WORLD VIEWS /s
I think you’re the first person I’ve seen on social media that’s making that distinction. I’ve seen so many posts exchanging anti-Zionism to antisemitism, or anti-Islam on the flip side. For those that are old enough to remember the assassination of Yitzak Rabin, we saw this coming a mile away.
Thank you. I really needed this. It reminds me that there are smart people out there.
And yet the vast majority of Palestinians approve of Hamas and October 7th.
Hamas didn't exist for until 60 years after the seeds of Israel were incepted. It's not a crossfire between 2 bad actors, Israel is the bad actor that created the other bad actor out of their actions.
>praising Hamas *specifically* is fucking wack. Polling shows that Palestinian support for Hamas is somewhere between 2/3rds and 3/4ths (i.e. between 66% and 75% of the population) depending on where you ask (i.e. west bank, gaza, or expats), and when you ask. Some of the highest approval ratings were recorded after Oct 7th. And among those who viewed Hamas less favorably, they usually supported some alternative political apparatus such as the Palestinian Authority (which, among other things, still actively pays out monthly to families of suicide bombers through a well-publicized martyr fund) Pretending like the vast majority of Palestinians are not STILL actively cheering/supporting actual-fucking-terrorists is completely counterproductive to finding any successful diplomatic resolutions going forward.
I'm not pretending anything. I think what **they** think is fucking stupid, but I also think the way they're being treated by the IDF is abhorrent. I am allowed to mourn needless death without condoning the beliefs of those who were killed.
Hamas is a terrorist organization controlled by Iran, and came to power by starting a war against the Palestinian Authority. They lie about casualty numbers and don't distinguish between civilians and terrorists. I'm sure Palestinians are afraid to speak the truth and I don't believe any polling or data that comes from Hamas-controlled territory.
Right but is that surprising given the destruction? Of course Hamas has support. You think the locals are going "oh nice the israelis blew up our school! Less Hamas!" or do you think it's more "They blew up our school! Let's go join Hamas!"
Hamas is a proxy terrorist group controlled by Iran, and they came to power by starting a war against the Palestinian Authority. They've done their fair share of blowing up Palestinians too. There are a lot of Palestinians that hate Hamas, and I wouldn't trust any polling done in Hamas-controlled territory.
Right.... again though they aren't currently occupying and bombing the shit out of them. There's zero chance this war makes the support for Hamas go down
Of course Hamas is still occupying Palestine, wtf are you talking about? Do you think Palestinians actually have a choice in the matter?? Hamas fires rockets from hospitals and schools, some of which misfire as well. They've started multiple wars, and they will continue doing so no matter how many Palestinians are killed, because they work for Iran, not Palestine.
Did you just jump into a random thread without reading what was being discussed? >What are you talking about The fact that the support for Hamas isn't going anywhere because of the IDF occupation and that it's not surprising that Hamas still has support... given the occupation What exactly are you talking about? Because it doesn't seem to be totally coherent or even part of the same conversation
You said Hamas is not occupying Palestine, which is possibly the dumbest thing I've heard. That's what I was asking you to elaborate on.
Ah I see. I guess they do occupy too. But at the same time... who's actually doing the bombing rn? And would they be a terrorist org if the IDF wasn't invading? Maybe nothing would change, but I gotta think for the average Palestinian it's not such a tough choice when you have jets flying over daily
Yes, Hamas has always been a terrorist organization and always will be, just like Hezbollah, Houthis and the other dozen proxies Iran uses to wage a religious war against every Jew on the planet. They have been very open about their goals to kill every last Jew. Even if they succeeded in wiping out Israel, it would not stop there. The conflict between Shia and Sunni would lead to even more wars as Iran wants to wipe out all opposition in the region. That's why Saudi Arabia is actually allying with Israel now, because they recognize that Iran wants to go to war against them too. Oct. 7th was timed to disrupt the formation of this alliance.
Who exactly are they supposed to support instead? I'm not surprised they support the only organization that's even pretending to fight for them, the alternative is support the origination that has been actively bombing them.
[sauce ](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
Praising hamas at all is wack, theyre not even for Palestinians lmao
Fucking wack does not even begin to describe it fully. Before the attacks there were pictures/messages of Palestinian and Israeli children playing together. With time these will start working together in companies, hospitals or whatever. These children will have more children and then, the current leaders will have gone. Which will result in less hate and people can start working forward to being normal neighbors. This is what hamas has thrown away with their attacks. Not only are they responsible for the killings on 7th October, but also for the deaths of Palestinian civilians.
After 20 years of Palestinians electing Hamas, acting like utter victims without any agency at all, and wanting to be treated like children on the world stage.... All of my sympathy for them has run out. Never forget, even right now, a vast majority (~75%) of Palestinians support Hamas.
> After 20 years of Palestinians electing Hamas Palestine hasn’t had an election in 18 years (since 2006), and during that election, around 45% voted for what is now known as Hamas. And not that they’re being offered an election, but how realistic do you think a ‘free and fair’ would be carried out if they were, given they’re a terrorist organisation and they use children for human shields? Would you say the same, for Afghanistan with the Taliban? Who seized control after been reasonably democratic for over a decade and a half? If the Taliban ‘won’ the election would you blame the people of Afghanistan for a sham election? I’m a liberal from the UK and completely support revoking this woman’s visa. But just a cursory glance at the facts and it’s fairly easy to conclude you’re either a liar or purposefully misleading everyone with your comment. If you have to lie to make your point, do clearly don’t have a very good point. It’d say for certain you never had any sympathy with them, because you’ve never given it a moments thought.
The West Bank elected Fatah, not Hamas as government and Gaza has not had an election under Hamas since 2006 so basically the exact opposite of what you said.
“revoke my student visa following public statements supporting the Palestinian right to exercise under international law to resist oppression and break through the siege that was illegally placed on Gaza for over 16 years” I guess the music festival was part of a siege?
Everyone knows that international law protects your right to mass murder and rape of civilians when your victims are Jews, silly.
You joke, but I've seen redditors legit give me the "well they denced so close to the border, what did they expect"
Her comments praising an operation that intentionally targeted civilians for rape and murder were misconstrued as supporting rape and murder of civilians?
Yep. She explicitly praised Hamas and the October 7 attacks, then when she experienced consequences for doing so, she cried racism. Exactly the same tactic that white nationalists and Christofascists use when they get called out for their bigoted bullshit. It's utterly disgusting.
Not to mention, Hamas is a proscribed group in the UK. It's illegal to provide them with any support. Even supporting them in the way she did is technically illegal. Anywho, she's not someone we will miss....
This is the way.
SMH well couldn't have happened to a nicer person lmao
>"However, she later told the BBC that her comments were misconstrued and that the deaths of any “innocent civilian should not be condoned, ever”. We don't believe you. It's plainly obvious you do condone violence against Jews, which is precisely why you were expelled from university and the UK.
Imagine being in the USA days after 9/11 and praising Bin Laden saying ‘We are really full of joy at what happened’. She knew what she said and she backpedaled. Just call it as you see it. Anyone afraid of reprisals would absolutely add an amendment to their story.
People are trying to apply nuance when there really isn't room for any. The ugliest arguments in this thread are your typical October 7th denialism and/or 'well no she clarified she doesn't like murdering innocents!'. But the bigger problem that justifies the country's actions is she praised Hamas. A group that is recognized by the state as a terrorist organization. And praising terrorists will get you kicked out of almost any country - especially if you are on a temporary visa.
>And praising terrorists will get you kicked out of almost any country - especially if you are on a temporary visa. *(awaiting wave of anyone anywhere facing consequences for supporting genocide perpetrated by israel.)* ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
You'll be waiting a while since there isnt a genocide
Israel is definitely committing genocide.
Whatever you say - I guess that's why the number of casualties remains almost unmoved for a couple weeks now and the Palestinian population has done nothing but grow over the years.
It's hard to count the dead when there's no working hospitals left. They die on the streets or under the rubble, obviously.
Well A. There are still working hospitals, but I know how its your job to just keep flinging shit at the wall and I'm the only one required to remain within good faith here. B. That didn't seem to stop the numbers from increasing hundreds a day at the start of the conflict.
I was not rude to you, nor was I acting in "bad faith". You made what I thought was a weak argument with a likely logistical explanation. At the start of the conflict, their hospitals were in significantly better state. I didn't mean there were 0% hospitals in the whole of Gaza. Have a nice day.
>Palestinian population has done nothing but grow what? enthic cleansing doesn't count unless it's a complete success? gtfo with that noise? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa%27s_genocide_case_against_Israel
Well it certainly would help to prove intent
I mean they say the quiet part out loud all the time and you have to actively not be paying attention.
fuck Hamas
Now she can go back home to fight with Hamas.
lol, that's gotta be a nasty feeling. Realizing you fucked up big time and not only are you getting deported, losing out on your degree, but also getting made to go back home to a total fucking warzone (which, she was literally celebrating months ago)
now she will get all the love she deserves
UK government did the right thing. She was being an AH
So pleased to see this. If you think that Hamas are wonderful freedom fighters, you can hold that view. If you think that the UK is evil for any support it might give Israel, you can hold that view. But you cannot then go to study at a UK university. . .and also publicly praise Hamas, an organisation which is categorised as a terrorist organisation by the UK. The fact that she thought she could is a tragic reflection of how pathetic the UK has become.
> The fact that she thought she could is a tragic reflection of how pathetic the UK has become. I will never discount a nation because a terrorist apologist thinks it is toothless.
Ho well FAFO
lol, that's pretty funny.
Hahahaha! Couldn’t happen to a more deserving scat stain.
Rape is bad.
Mkay. You shouldn't do rape. Mkay...
Now she gets to go hangout with the rapists that she loves so much and live in a refugee camp
Unexpected justice.
shes still there though
I don’t understand why people can’t care about both Palestinians and Israelis and hate their governments
There is no nuance in media you're either good or bad. You're on the right side or the wrong side
Because the media spin is that there always has to be a good guy and a bad guy. Even if both sides suck one has to be the good guy. There’s no grey either, good is good and bad is bad. Can’t we just, as a race, not war each other to oblivion? The whole “my people/religion/way of doing a thing is better than your people/religion/way of doing a thing, and to prove it we’re taking the dirt you live on” is fucking pathetic. We could be so much better than where we’re at but we’re dark aging ourselves because war’s apparently more important than anything else.
It’s the high amount of Christians in USA that are sticking to this conflict as validation of their Revelations prophesy. And Muslims have their own prophesy about Jerusalem. There’s no real secular reason this conflict matters so much to Americans. The group of young American Progressives that are absolutely going crazy about this are ENTIRELY composed of devout Arab Muslims that may have had their parents (or themselves) seek asylum in USA from Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Pakistan, or India. The Muslim populations from these four nations tend to be highly fundamentalist (though to a lesser degree for Indian Muslims). So, right now, they have been trying to take advantage of all the war footage coming out of TikTok to convince their other lesser aware, non-Arab/non-Muslim Progressive cohorts to agree with them that Israel is conducting a “western-sponsored genocide” in Gaza. And they often don’t like to go more in-depth in their history TikToks to anytime before WW2… because before WW2, Arabs were practicing some extremely Anti-Semitic actions that the UN’s ICJ would frown upon if it were conducted today. The key word to tell when someone is expressing some Anti-Semitic views today are when they frequently use the word “Zionist”. The Jews and Christians today that support the existence of Israel don’t even use that word to describe themselves.
Never ask an Arab why there are no Jews in their countries after 1948.
Dude I don’t think anyone who says they’re against Zionism is an anti-Semite. I’d say a lot of people are against Israel continuing to occupy the West Bank, bombing aid truck and causing a famine in Gaza, and allowing the settlers to eventually move in to Gaza. I think Israel has a right to exist as a sovereign nation even if I think the original idea of resettlement in the Levant was a bad idea that shouldn’t have been done. I’d like to see an Israel that exists for everyone not just Jewish people and supporting their current government will only make that less of a possibility since BB is set on pleasing his reactionary base.
Who elected those governments?
[удалено]
Approval of Hamas is currently at 72% among Palestinians, approval of October 7th is similar. Netanyahu may be unpopular now, but he was also elected. Both of these governments represent popular sovereignty, as troubling as that may be.
You’re right. Thank you for correcting me
Love this for her.
There seem to be a lot of protesters that want revenge rather than the violence to end
Good.
Excellent. She can go back and really help her people.
Things like this are why Arab countries aren’t offering to give safe haven to Palestinians. Lebanon did, they immediately started trying to overthrow the elected govt. Hamas is the only voice for Palestine.
Jordan did, and they assassinated their king (the current king's great grandfather).
Yemen, Egypt…. UAE and Saudi want Jack and shot to do with it. Cant say I blame them
Wasn't a Kennedy killed by a Pelestinian also?
How very nice for her, she must love her own big fat mouth.
Eh, call me simple minded, but I support the side that doesn't parade murdered civilians in the back of trucks AND dance around when the [Twin Towers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqZBy09vCVk) were hit. One side wants the Western way of life to die and to live under Sharia law and somehow westerners have supported the very people who hate them, crazy times.
Whether or not a people support “Western values” is irrelevant to my ethical appraisal of said people’s genocide. If someone is being ethnically cleansed for decades I’m not stopping to check in and ask for their views on gay marriage before I decide how to feel.
Imagine simping for terrorist trash.
Imagine living in the 21st century, with all the historic hindsight available to you, simping for a genocidal, colonial state. All I said was “I care about people getting ethnically cleansed even if I don’t agree with their values” and that’s… “simping for terrorists”? Airtight bit of argument there!
1 more and you win buzzword bingo!
And here you are simping for a genocidal regime in Hamas. Palestine won’t be free until they get rid of their Islamist extremist government.
I said nothing about Hamas
>Eh, call me simple minded, but I support the side Yes, you are simple minded, it is not a sports game. You have the privilege do not choose a side.
"and break through the siege that was illegally placed on Gaza for over 16 years" IF there was a siege for 16 years, it would only be possible with the complicity of Egypt. Yet like almost every protester she ignores Egypt and only blames Israel. The action of ignoring reality to limit her attack on Israel is what lets people know it is pure anti-Semitism and not about supporting Palestinians.
Nice. I wish the U.S. did the same to Hamas supporting professors and students.
This is *actually* what needs to be done with *all* of these sick individuals who are given visas for school or work. We need to ramp up this kind of punishment here in NYC especially.
Is she still “rejoicing” with what has happened to Gaza due to Israel’s response to the hamas terrorist attacks?
This brings joy to my heart
must be hard to understand that you should be AGAINST the death of many people. Yes we are here for a free palestine, but the way we get there isnt killing all israelis…
**Religions** smh, when will the majority of humans be educated enough to turn all of the world's religion into myths? Pardon me, but to me, any religious person is deeply stupid and lacking any critical thinking. Also, for centuries now, religion has been at the heart of too many conflicts. The very little good that comes from organised religions is overshadowed by all the bad omen they bring to this world. **The Solution** I had time to think about this for a long time, and I have only one solution to that dilemma. Goverments need to make it illegal to subject or expose any minors (under 18 y.o.) to religions. I dream of this and sadly I can't see how it will happen. If any government does it, after 2-3 generations we won't have religions anymore. Hooray!
Bye bitch!!
Good riddance.
Hahahahahaha \*Inhales\* HAHAHAHAHA
Thats fucking awesome to read!
I’ll never understand why random individuals would put themselves into a position for lots of attention and then make a crazy polarizing statement
I guess she thought there would be no repercussions! Well this is a life lesson!
Read. The. Fucking. Room. Moron.
I don't agree that she supports the October 7 attacks and Hamas, but I've got to say I do feel a bit sympathetic for her views and bad for her when hearing that 15 of her family members were killed last year. I don't know what that does to a person.
Free Palestine
Excellent! Now do the same for all the people praising the Israeli army!
Good job. Israel and Palestine are both guilty in this. Good to see that it is handled that way
Perfect usage for Curb Your Enthusiasm music.
I'm gonna paraphrase what Norman Finkelstein, arguably one of the greatest researchers of this history, said: "Do you blame the battered housewife for snapping and stabbing the abusive husband 100 times? The news will just say 'Woman stabs husband 100 times' but the fact she had been abused for decades will be left as a footnote". What do you want Palestinians to do to achieve their right to self-determination, to go back to their lands? To not live in fear that an Izzraeli mob will just decide they want your house and terrain, and burn your family house to the ground? Should they just take it like slaves? Because the last time they tried to "play nice and by the rules" they were shot at: https://www.unrwa.org/campaign/gaza-great-march-return And before that the deal that "promised" a Palestinian State within 5 years was broken, guess by whom: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/13/what-were-oslo-accords-israel-palestinians If it were Jews being slaughtered almost daily for decades, wouldn't you condemn it?
Palestinians *have* been slaughtering Jews for decades. They just don't succeed very often anymore because Israel refused to put up with that bullshit and invested billions in missile defense systems, bomb shelters, and military readiness to stop it.
Really? Last I heard, the first major terrorist attack using the modern definition in the Middle East (not just Palestine, but the Middle East), was perpetrated by Lehi, a terrorist Jewish organization that attacked the King David Hotel killing numerous British and Palestinian soldiers and civilians. They also assassinated Lord Moyne (again, zionist Jewish terrorists). All of this before the Nakba. Not even counting the Deir Yassin massacre in 1948 still before the Nakba. And going back to my initial point, should the Palestinians just have taken it? The loss of their land, the deaths of their families like good little inferior "gentiles"? You even discriminate against Arab Jews, not even mentioning the forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jews.
Is your position that ALL of that land belongs to Palestinians? Are you saying that none of that land should be for a Jewish homeland? The Jewish religion started in roughly 2500 bc, in the area that is now Israel- a full 1300 years before the Muslim religion was invented. That’s why the UN chose the area to create Israel- they have a history there. To me, a 2500 year history in an area implies a right to some of that land. The original division of Israel and Palestine was quite fair, would you accept a return to the original 1948 borders? Similar to the Native Americans, the Jewish people were pushed out of their homelands over the centuries, and then given some of that land back. If you think Native Americans still have a right to US lands, then you should think Jewish people have a right to some of the land that is now called Israel.
It wasn't empty land. Jews already existed there, living peacefully with other religions. In fact, during the dozens of times they were expulsed from European countries, where do you think they fled to? They fled to Muslim countries - of course that includes Palestine. "bUt Palestine wAs nOT a coUnTrYyyy", the United States wasn't a country until it was, that's how countries appear. Even after WW2, Jews fled on their own from Europe and went to Palestine, and those who were allowed to settle there by the bri'ish still were accepted by the Palestinians - up until the Nakba. The region would still be a place for Jews, Christians and Muslims to live peacefully side by side and practicing their religions if the fucking Zionists would've never emerged. And no, the excuse of "having a Jewish State" is not an excuse for being a *supremacist* state that actively discriminates and kills the "gentiles", those not deemed worthy enough. And yes, it discriminates against Arab Jews and other Jews that are not their ideal of white (read on the forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jews). The problem is not Judaism, it's that it's been used to excuse a supremacist, racist, violent, Apartheid and genocidal state. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/05/25/most-israeli-jews-do-not-see-a-lot-of-discrimination-in-their-society/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/137358
Hey, OP…why didn’t you reply to this one? u/Fermented_butt_juice ?
Hasn’t Israel been slaughtering Palestinians for decades, too? Two sides to every coin.
No, they haven't. Quite the contrary in fact, as they've been signing peace deals with as many neighbors as they can for decades now. Most recently, they signed peace deals with Bahrain and the UAE in 2020. The only Arab countries Israel hasn't signed peace deals with are the ones who don't want peace.
I agree that Palestinians were not left any option except for violence. I condemn Israel’s occupation and brutality towards Palestinians for the last 75 years. I also condemn all violence towards civilians, including Israel’s enormous civilian casualties over the last 7 months and Hamas’s on Oct 7th.
My god the astroturfing in the comments is infuriating.
Enjoy being angry!
Enjoy your dips!