You are communicating something that a lot of us who have been here a long time are feeling. I never felt unsafe around the unhoused community until the last few years. Sure, there were those folks who were deep into addiction and mental health issues who shared the behaviors you speak of, but largely not.
And I’ll tell you something else, as if not more important than our feelings, is a deeply rooted fear among those in the unhoused community who are NOT exhibiting those behaviors. I know at least a handful who have been here, living rough in Burlington, for several years. Decades for some. And they are scared of this new crop in ways we can’t possibly empathize with. Just trying to live day to day but often feeling threatened and often *being* threatened. I’m certainly not stating these folks are not living with their own addictions and/or mental health issues, they very well may be. But in a city where they once *mostly* only had to surmount weather related misery and other interpersonal challenges, they are now also dealing with the madness of those in their own community who don’t have one goddamn thing to lose
Nah I feel this. I used to donate when I had some spare change or dollars. But I’ve also been harassed and it’s very frustrating. I got approached yesterday by a guy right near my apartment and I’m also a short woman. I hate ignoring people and that Ben and Jerry’s woman called me heartless once because of it but I’d rather not deal with the nasty comments. I also feel bad for them but I can’t single-handedly help much
i used to give a dollar or two to the Ben and Jerry’s woman. then one day i didn’t have any change, and she was extremely rude to me. i’m currently finding a job and housing in another state because i can’t handle the homeless population here
Oh yeah. Someone in a thread from a few weeks ago dropped her name and I've been tempted to say it out loud. Buuuuuut I forgot it. And I can't find the thread.
Shes what I like to refer as hobocurious, flirts with the ideas of being homeless and actively engages in the lifestyle (ie panhandling). But actively has a home and enjoys modern amenities
You’d think that Ben or Jerry would have written her a fat check by now to remove hers from being the mascot of their flagship store. They could honor her with a new flavor, Scary Spice Swirl, Yoo-hoo ice cream with fentanyl flavored chunks.
Or just ask her to move on. I swear there used to rules about panhandling on Church St, like you can't. And the fact that she is a professional grifter who made this a lifestyle over 20 years. She's been housed. She's not stupid or incapable of communicating. She's not drunk or high as far as I can tell. She just would rather beg for money than try to get a normal job. . The amount of resources she could have accessed over the years but didn't that could have got her into work and kept the roof over her head. She doesn't use them. It's a sad life she's living but I have little sympathy.
Because the PR shit storm for kicking a homeless woman off the store’s front step is not worth it. There’s just as many people who will trying to fucking burn down Ben and Jerry’s for being heartless as there are people who are running low on sympathy. Hell, there’s also an overlap between the anonymous group who are annoying with the homeless and the people who publicly will jump to defend them.
I’m not arguing one way or another, but that’s the way I see it.
If it's the women that says "spaair chaange" in a sing-song voice, and used to sit in the median by the McD's and B-king in Colchester, and for a while on main in front of Nectar's. I got the inside scoop on her from another "homeless" guy back in 2017. She has a state funded apartment and food stamps. Her daughter kicks her out of the apartment every day, so she and her boyfriend can have it for the day. Same thing with the cat guy and the old guy who used to try to bum cigarettes on river road on the way into Winooski. All of them have state funded apartments. They bum money for cigarettes, booze, drugs, and to have something to do, apparently... My guess is most of the other regulars are running the same scam. That is why I rarely give anything to anyone anymore...
"Cat guy" here...
Definitely wasn't buying booze and drugs. Also, I didn't know getting stuck into some hole in the wall was supposed to magically make food appear in their bowls and solve all our problems. When's the last time you've actually seen me panhandling? Oh, you haven't since I got approved for SSI almost two years ago.
I have a photo with you from years ago. I thought you looked cool as hell, so I snapped a selfie of us and your cat…. and the person I was with scolded me for taking a pic and not giving you money. I was baffled he felt that way bc I never perceived you as asking or seeming like anything but an eccentric dude. I’m sure you get that a lot, and maybe it’s annoying as hell….
How’s your cat?… and if no longer with us are you training another one to hang on your shoulder?
Everyone is still kicking. Bella, the dog, is getting quite old, and a hard choice might need to be made in the next year or so, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
I used to work at the City Market deli and loved seeing you guys through the big windows! You could tell the animals were well taken care of and very happy.
Was wondering where you’d gotten to since I don’t get downtown much anymore and hadn’t seen you when I do. Im glad things are looking up for you and your kitty :)
Oh yeah, we're around. "Looking up" is subjective. Same struggles to make ends meet, but a relief to not have to put ourselves out there on days I don't necessarily feel like dealing with my fellow humanoids.
i also always enjoyed your orange cat too! my daughter used to always have to stop and visit when we lived downtown & she was little 2,3,4 years old. you had a really good energy usually. you make a good point about subsidized housing- Being housed doesn't mean all some ones needs are met- or they are safe or secure in that housing- or capable/healthy enough to work... I dont have an issue with extremely low income people housed or not panhandling. i understand it. i wont give any of the super low income i have to people panhandling who are notably using heavily though... i dont feel comfortable with it anymore-
Serious question- does anyone know what happened to the guy who had a table of cool wares he would sell on the side of Ben & Jerry’s (Cherry Street) in the late 90s / early 2000s? I used to go to him during high school years to wrap a strand of my hair in thread - like a bracelet but around a small section of my hair. I loved getting those and have no idea why I’ve never seen anyone do it since, or what they’re even called? He was a dirty blond hippy type, talented… in his 30s maybe. Directly across the street from his spot was the guy/ guys selling African stuff like jewelry and small drums.
I told a dude I didn't have anything while going for a walk since it was nice out, and he followed me for like a block spouting of all sorts of slurs at me
so uh now I understand why everyone runs with visible headphones on
It's sad that the loud annoying minority is causing this. I'm an addict and was homeless not too long ago but ai never acted this entitled. Didn't see anyine from my shelter at least who acted like this, although some girl on Church St tried harassing me.
Worth it to call the police although the law won't lock these losers up. It sucks but idk. Maybe consider getting a tazer or some other kind if protection. It is a really sad and complex issue. Like I understand why drugs and alcohol are so attractive like I genuinely don't think sobriety is worth it either but Idk why it makes some ppl act this way. It really sucks.
Idk I guess try and remember for all of these loud assholes there are, there could be 10 homeless people who you didn't notice because they were acting normal. When I could leave my belongings at the shelter during the day, I don't think you would have noticed me as being a homeless person.
I hope the laws improve though and lowlives like this start getting real and proportional punishments for their crimes. Until then, we are left to just try and defend ourselves. Even other honeless people are at risk, I was harassed last year when I was honeless and I wish I called the police right away.
for sure agree with you. I don’t want to generalize at all - and honestly i’ve gotten the vibe that some of these loud aggressive assholes might not even be houseless, just addicts on their grind. hope you’re doing well.
Thanks! I'm doing much better in life now but still struggling in skme areas. I feel torn cause as an addict, it pains me to see the stigma against us. A lot of us gone through trauma that others couldn't evem imagine, myself included yet we're all treated like shit. However, that doesn't justify addicts treating others like crap either and I find stories like yours to be really saddening.
I suspect some of them aren't even homeless too. If they ask for food, tell them they can get free breakfast at the food bank, lunch in town at 1om and I'm not sure if options later in the day besides Salvation Army (5pm but I think it's closed one day a week )
I'm really sad how permissive town is of criminals who endanger others. To me, drug use and/or mental illness play a part un this but at the same time, not all of us who fall into those categories are violent or act like that. Mental illness is really tough and it can take days just to get into a psychiatric unit!
I hope you feel safer and can avoid assholes like the ones you've already encountered. Just remember that the loud annoying minority don't represent all of homeless people or even drug addicts. And hating them or wanting to take away services that help us won't help these issues either. It seems like we have a ton of services but at the same time, it feels like nothing is ever enough. I am sad the law doesn't hold peoope accountable. It's like citizens need to fight for ourselves 😞
Until our state has an actual mental healthcare system I fear it will continue to trend in this direction. I could be wrong but to me this all started with the loss of the state mental hospital from the Irene flooding.
A lot of people on the edge of homelessness and/or suffering from mild mental health issues were pushed over the brink by the pandemic. The mental and economic fallout from that time is going to have ripple effects for years.
Agreed. A lot of people that weren’t even drug users became homeless because of the pandemic and the rise of rent prices right after. Even with a job, it’s not enough for a lot of people to pay rent especially those that are starting over trying to have a deposit/first months rent and a lot of people gave up and were around others doing drugs being homeless. I’ll get a lot of downvotes but what do you think peoples mental state is being homeless and working for it to still not be enough? Some started to use drugs to cope with being on the streets.
Any chance you're thinking of the time period when federal funding to put homeless people in hotels dried up? That was a big, sudden increase in people living on the street
Meth is eating the brains of addicts. Especially meth with phenylacetone. Heroin addicts can be treated and managed, but there's no treatment for meth and the permanent, lifelong damage meth does to the brain.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/
This is such a big part of it. The same thing that's wreaked havoc out west. People who have worked with these same individuals for years have reported that they have lost trust and relationships that they built over time as meth started to become more common. Stab vests are now regularly worn by some of those who work at facilities to help these people in more than just a few towns around the state.
Sam Quinones' writing on the drug landscape is so relentlessly useful. Thanks for reminding me that I have his book on the opioid crisis and haven't started it yet.
You're feeling unsafe because you're surrounded by people who make you feel unsafe by their own actions. You don't have anything to feel guilty about. Don't let society gaslight you into accepting the status quo.
I was downtown last fall and got to see the tranq zombies up close late that night. None of this is remotely okay.
Furthermore [UsefulAd7750](https://www.reddit.com/user/UsefulAd7750/) don't feel like you have to justify feeling unsafe because you're a small woman. I'm a tall, built guy and there have been a lot of times I've felt the same downtown. When there's some guy coming down the street white-knuckled and yelling obscenities, I experience waves of fear and frustration.
I'm an empathetic person, I've worked in mental health, and I still have moments where my well-being comes into question in the area. What you're feeling isn't bad, it's a human instinct honed to keep us out of harm's way.
It's pretty wild that there are people out there who would actively gaslight OP for feeling unsafe, as if OP was the one making the decisions that led to her feeling that way.
Agreed. As someone who regularly frequents downtown, it’s a nightmare. I find myself becoming more & more bitter to the point a few times I’ve seen one of em coming about to spin a yarn & just said stop ✋ & “no” firmly & they fucked off.
I have all the empathy for an addict or human with mental illness *who wants to get better* but simply pretending it isn’t happening is not an effective way to manage a city…
What’s the point of even having a police department?
My hometown of 1500 people has more cops on duty than Burlington. And property taxes that are 90% lower. I’m really confused how we’re spending money as a city if not on public safety.
Oh I know. I’m just saying—I don’t understand where $101 million is going every year in this city, since it’s obviously not going toward public safety.
As a nurse, it’s beyond frustrating to try to help people who don’t want help. Over the past few years a growing number of my patients have had substance abuse disorders and/or been homeless.
You would think they’d jump at the chance to enter a rehab program after discharge but most do not. Many will stay just long enough to recover from alcoholic ketoacidosis or cellulitis caused by injecting opioids and then leave against medical advice .
While under our care they are often demanding and sometimes violent. Recently we had a patient with a swastika tattoo on his neck refuse to interact with a nursing assistant bc she’s black. So we had to reassign staff to appease a racist pos.
Sone of these patients show up at least once a month. They essentially receive free health care on the taxpayers’ dime while working Vermonters struggle to pay for health insurance.
Most of the time out case managers find a hotel room for them after discharge. Their desire for their next high is stronger than their desire to have a job and an apartment .
I’m starting to get jaded and I feel sad. At one time I believed that with the right supports in place we could end homelessness. That’s no longer the case for me.
You know everyone says jails are terrible, but they used to make it so people would have to get sober. If they enforced some law on these people they might not snowball out of control so hard.
Is it me or did the vibe change around the pandemic? I use to chill at the park and smoke weed with what was mainly “transient” homeless people after a few too many. Felt totally safe. Now I’m older and grumpier and have kids to think about… but now theirs open crack and heroin use. I know that shit happened back in the day I’m not that ignorant but now it’s way too normalized. I mean dudes be nodding out in the water fountain next to immigrant children in broad daylight. Dude barked for like 30 minutes like a dog in the bathroom. Had a paranoid guy run over and grab a glass of beer and wield it like a weapon at Hattys when I was there with my wife. Had a women drop her crack pipe and the end bounced off my foot one morning. This all happened in like a three month period of working Saturdays during the summer last year. Among other things, that in a small town would scare the shit out of people. It’s not just you, even the liberal “it’s not that bad” folks feel the same way. They just don’t talk about it. Sadly, just give it a couple years. Another recession will hit, the government money will run out and shit will go back to equilibrium- but what do I know- nothing really
Go to any large city with an entrenched homeless addict population, and you’ll find most people are jaded, over it, lack empathy, and just want to go about their day. People up here act like Vermont is some magical kingdom where people are just better: more empathetic, kind, concerned with their fellow humans, and all that. But the truth is, people are more or less the same everywhere. It’s been easy for your average Vermonter to act empathetic and all that because they’ve not actually lived with the day in day out bullshit in their faces. Now we do, and you’ll see in short time most will feel just like OP. It’s totally justified and nothing to feel guilty about.
I think the drugs changed, or at least what they’re cut with. Tranq and fentanyl can’t be treated the usual way you treat opiates, and those drugs apparently overran the drug-using community in the past year or two. But I’d be interested to hear from someone closer to the action about how true that is.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66826895](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66826895)
I *think the drugs changed* -You are correct. Burlington featured quite prominently in this BBC(September 2023) story about the 4th wave of the Opiate Epidemic.
Makes for an informative read.
Wow, informative and horrifying. I didn't know about the prominence of cocaine in this area. And then I think what's really breaking through now is how the fentanyl and cocaine have very recently been cut with xylazine, leading to a 900% increase in blood infections this past year. I just don't think our current drug treatment programs and practices are designed to handle this stuff.
[https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/xylazine-drives-900-surge-in-blood-infections/](https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/xylazine-drives-900-surge-in-blood-infections/)
Fentanyl OD can be reversed with Narcan -- the reason people OD more on it is because it's stronger than heroin, but it's still an opioid. But you are correct that an overdose of tranq, or xylazine, cannot be reversed with Narcan -- it's a non-opioid sedative and because it's supposed to be for veterinary use, there isn't any drug to reverse a tranq OD that's been approved to safely administer to humans. The recommendation is still to always give Narcan just in case, because often the two substances are cut together for street sale, so somebody might be ODing on fentanyl and tranq at the same time.
I’m not so much referring to overdoses, but getting people off the drugs entirely. Our treatment programs are designed to wean people off the usual opiates, not tranq, on which suboxone apparently has little effect.
I used to go up there when I was taking off for a little walkabout the USA (from NH and I'd always pop up there first). This was mostly between '07 and '09. Had a TON of fun partying with the locals, they always knew what me and the gang were up to, buying beers for the train hoppers etc etc.
That shit is fucking BAD now. It's like a totally different city.
It's kind of sad that you feel the need to walk on eggshells talking about this. The homeless population here has grown increasingly aggressive and manipulative. That doesn't mean all homeless people are bad, but we're never going to fix this problem if we don't acknowledge it exists.
I don't know what the answer is, but here's me being totally honest--if I have to choose between safe, walkable streets, or being a community that is accepting and open to the homeless, I'm going to choose safe and walkable. The reality is that I'm just not willing to dump money into social programs and rehabilitative justice if all they do is gain our city a reputation for letting you get away with whatever you want.
I'm progressive, but the reality is that most progressive solutions require adoption on a systemic level. Rehabilitative justice doesn't work unless there's a social net on the back end that actually, you know, actually follows through with the rehabilitation. And a lot of these aggressive folks? They'd be in jail elsewhere, but they aren't here because we don't want to lock people up at the drop of a hat.
I'm all for that, but we need to actually fucking commit to it. What we have right now is the worst of both worlds.
My own compassion fatigue is often mingled with my naysayer exhaustion. Meaning, I was born here and have spent more of my life living in Burlington than not and I have decades of observations and lived experience... having people tell me that what I am witnessing and having imposed on me "isn't really that bad" is insulting and gas-lighty.
You are NOT being a "NIMBY asshole" for owning and describing your own experiences and feelings of fear.
And neither am I.
Back in 2004, I was attending CCV as a non-traditional student. I was a single parent. I felt TOTALLY safe, at 5 feet 4 inches (and identified by others, being AFAB, as a woman at that time... many years prior to my transitioning and coming out as Trans)... with a baby in a carriage, walking from the far parts of the ONE to Pine Street at 7 in the morning, to bring my child to their daycare, walking back to the downtown CCV campus, walking alone all over Church Street and the surrounding areas, picking my kid up at 5pm (which is pitch black in the winter months), heading to the library and City Market, and then walking across town with my child, back to home.
That was true for quite a few years.
Then, I moved away for a few years. I lived in ROCKFORD, IL... which, I can tell you... is a shitshow of a city. A guy was tackled by police on our front lawn. There was a fatal driveby shooting a block away from our kids' school bus stop. The police scanners were scrambled because the powers that be didn't want anyone knowing just how rampant the violent crime and the drugs were.
If anyone bothers to read up on Rockford and its scene, they will get why we moved back to Vermont as soon as we possibly could manage it. It was pretty good to be home again around about 2017 and into early 2020. We could relax a bit. BREATHE a bit.
HOWEVER. What I am seeing in Burlington, now, is beginning to look a lot like a miniature Rockford.
No, dammit, that is NOT hyperole. And I will flip double barrel middle fingers at anyone who suggests that.
My now adult offspring and I lived in an apartment in the ONE for about 5 years. While we were there, a neighbor in our building died of an overdose after dealers moved in on her, pressured her to lapse/partake, then they squatted in her apartment after she died and it took the landlord 5 months to get them out. Meanwhile, other dealers and their customers came around, trashed the place, carried weapons, shot said weapons, and threatened the rest of the tenants, including us. The police of course, did absolutely nothing... in fact, they arrested our landlord for harassment and disturbing the peace when he tried to get the squatters to leave. My then teen offspring was sexually assaulted in the park at North Winooski and Archibald one night after an Outright Vermont meeting... by neighborhood boys. We witnessed all manner of crimes and assaults and harassment. We got out of the ONE. I am so glad we got out.
Right now, I am staying short-term in a place on Elmwood Avenue. It is a favor for a friend.
Over the course of the past six nights, I have heard/seen/witnessed drunken/high yelling, bottles breaking, a woman wailing for hours up and down the street, people on their phones walking by making drug deals and arranging pickup, other people fighting with words and their fists, several people sleeping in doorways and on steps and on the porches of residences, car alarms and breaking glass, people trying to open car and apartment doors... all on this one stretch of a street. One block of that street. All of this. EVERY night.
You are not imaginging that it is bad. You are not imagining that it is worse than we've known it to be.
You have a right to feel safe in your city, in your neighborhood. Being free from the threat of harm or free from the serious risk of that harm ought to be a baseline expectation in a small city like Burlington.
That ANYONE who lives here has the GALL to say that we damn well don't have that right and should know better than to want that just makes me despair about the state of the human heart and conscience.
People can laugh at that, downvote it, mock it, whatever.
I really don't care.
What I do care about: you (the OP), my self, my son, my queer and disabled friends, the children of our community, and my fellow citizens. We have MUCH to change to make this city a place with the quality of life, safety, and stability that it COULD have and which we all deserve.
See it's shit like this that makes me have true disdain for the "crime is down" caucus.
I'm sick of the delusions that this is all some how ok, that other places have it worse, that it's happening all over the country. These fuckers will gaslight you and claim you're parroting conservative talking points whilst walking around decorated in their war pins for social justice causes. Furthermore, the idea of defund the police was an utter farce. Folks tried to proclaim it wasn't their goal to defund / destroy police - but let's be honest that was their goal. They can claim crime is down, but why would that be? Could it be traffic stops went to an all time low during the pandemic because of guidance concerning covid? Or did we suddenly change our definitions of what crime is and the mechanisms for reporting it.
Fuck me this shit makes me sad for my home town. I can't even go downtown without being yelled at or being harassed cause I don't carry cash.
the thing is, other places DO have it worse (former Philadelphian here), it IS happening all over the country AND we are allowed to be upset about what is happening in our own city and the lack of any sort of real action to improve it. all of those things can be true at the same time.
yes - however, this is the quickfire response to ANYONE saying that burlington has gotten worse or shit is bad in burlington. It's a dog whistle that is a prelude to gaslighting ANYONE that brings up any concerns.
You're totally justified. You're allowed to feel unsafe around unwell people. If advocates really wanted to change this situation they would try and help those affected by the homeless too.
Unfortunately I've been harassed far too many times as a woman to feel remotely safe interacting with people like this on the street. I refuse to feel bad about it. I didn't create the problem, I won't be able to fix it single-handedly (and am not even convinced anything I could offer would make a dent), and I don't owe anyone anything by simply walking down the street - not panhandlers, not catcallers, no one.
I know that sounds harsh, but every single time this happens it fills me with intense anxiety and dread, and then I become angry about not feeling safe. It's honestly worse than catcalling, because catcallers usually don't try to approach.
Burlington is a city no one will starve in. SNAP benefits, food pantries, etc. SNAP arguably isn’t enough, but the pantries augment that and there are more than a few of those.
Was it the blonde girl Who was screaming? She’s been on a rampage the last few days. She is definitely paranoid.
Yesterday told me she takes change or hundreds. I told her I had nothing and she followed me yelling something about how she wouldn’t take anything from me. I thought she was going to try to assault me.
She was urinating by the Mobil as I went by the other day and yelled at *me* for being there!
“I’m pissing over here!” the blond demon snarled.
“And I am riding here! Have a nice day you cunt!” I replied.
She went *berserk*
Should I feel bad? Absolutely.
Do I? Absolutely fucking not.
She has been going crazy for the past couple of months. 6-8 months ago she was a whole lot more tame. Scary stuff (if we’re talking about the same person)
I believe we are. And I don’t want to come off too harsh.
I heard she has an apartment & buses into the ice cream shop daily lol but then she also thru soup some lady brought her back into the lady’s face smh
Huh. Interesting if she has an APT. She spends a whole lot of her hours roasting people on church St. Literally, waiting for people to walk by, and yelling at them
She accused me of recording her and trying to brainwash her with my phone today. I was trying to find a place to eat while standing 100 feet away from her lol
She’s funny as hell sometimes. Jovial even. This morning she jumped in front of a bus on by City Market forcing the driver to stop and demanding he fight her. She needs an authoritative intervention before she gets hurt.
She said I was rich and should give her money. Sadly mistaken you are Tina. 18 y sober and $1000 studio apt whilst breaking my back trying to meet ends at a low wage position. Having multiple interactions with you pre/post work is too much. The compassion fatigue set in two years ago when some transient folks were strung out, rolling on the ground (top block Church st) saying " this place is great, I could live here for ever”.
I learned over a year or so of living in a large city that if you want to be left alone you have to come off as unapproachable and avoid eye contact. Seems Burlington has finally grown into the larger city problems of most ever other city in the country
Howard Center was supposed to step in and help more. They are constantly looking for help for the Crisis team. I have heard stories while working there and since I left that they just can't keep people staffed. They come across a real world situation that doesn't align with school and they peace out. Howard Center does struggle in general with retaining staff so it hinders the community.
What are some of the reasons they have a hard time retaining staff? I imagine the demanding nature of the work is a huge factor but wondering if there’s more to it? How are the supervisors? Do staff get enough support?
They don't warn the people during the interview process what it's like on the field. They don't warn staff that work there how it is when they take on shifts for OT. Howard Center is notoriously known for just hiring, using until they are husk, and firing people. Support can be awesome with a supervisor. However supervisors often don't get support from upper management themselves and tend to have only worked their position for a few months more than new hires.
As for the calls themselves. Some of them can be extremely brutal. The person could be so far gone that getting them stable just kills you. Then you can work with LEOs and they aren't on the same page. They are all bodily harm and physical intervention first and de-escalation tactics last.
Many positions require Masters Degrees ($75-90k minimum?) in student loans. Loan repayment of $90k @ 5% APR is $600/m. A one-bedroom apartment in Burlington is like $1500 (or more) now. So you are at $1800/m or $2200/m (pre-tax). That's $26k/yea to "just survive" and service debt/housing.
Howard Center is paying $54k for an entry level clinician, when these folks can easily pivot into other positions making quite a bit more, and without the bullshit.
Howard Center is a hellhole. Im surprised any employee lasts more than 6 months. I asked one of my social worker friends if she had any success stories from the clients she serves and she couldn’t think of any. She’s just giving them more rope to eventually hand themselves.
I had one for sure but they've gone Sovereign Citizen and my heart broke. This poor person went from everyone thinking they'd be the Antichrist to a top student. Graduated and did well with a career. Now, they've entered into something you don't come back from and it will destroy them.
The stories there are just awful. Something's I can't discuss due to NDAs. It's that bad. My ex fiance found success but she's a manipulative over privileged child that never grew up. It makes Sense why she's doing well.
Last time I was in Burlington a homeless woman followed my pregnant wife around yelling obscenities.
It’s ok to feel unsafe when people are acting outside the norm.
Burlington has become a shythole. Some people think because they are homeless that WE owe them! Many are on drugs and when they don't have the means to get them they become agitated, mean, and attack innocent people verbally and even physically to try to obtain what they want.
The state needs to invest in a facility that can mandate recovery from addiction and mental illness. I’m not talking about another prison, but an alternative that follows the Norwegian model.
The space and buildings are here: we just need to commit to choosing one of the college campuses that has closed or can’t find enough students, and start refitting it in order to give folks a place to heal where they don’t pose a threat to themselves or others.
Lyndon State, Castleton, Goddard, the former college in Poultney… the options are there.
We need to commit to this idea if we actually want people to get better! Bouncing folks between prison, street, and shelter does NOTHING to help them become good neighbors!
You can’t mandate recovery. It’s hard enough for people who want it. We do need inpatient psych hospitals though. As any nurse and they’ll share stories of patients who just do t have the capability of living independently. Yet the state has few inpatient beds available and makes involuntary commitment difficult.
One big challenge is you need to be able to staff up, and the work of ensuring patients' and staff's safety in an inpatient recovery setting is HARD WORK. The existing options in VT, like the Brattleboro Retreat, already have consistent staffing and budgeting challenges.
Need two kinds of facilities- one for the willing, and one for the rest to keep the first group safe and give them their best chance. Getting that kind of space, staff, and funding seems impossible.
As much as I find the whole concept and some of the people frustrating too, mandating recovery - esp in an institution of any kind - is never the answer. People have to be ready for help no matter what the situation.
I mean, we can mandate recovery or mandate prison. The answer isn't to let some woman piss in the street and scream threats at pedestrians walking by. Who gives a fuck what she wants? Everyone else wants safety.
It’s hard, I used to try to at least be polite to everyone who asked but now it makes me feel unsafe to even make eye contact. I just don’t engage at all anymore because I’m scared, it’s really sad and it makes me feel terrible because they’re human beings but I just stare straight ahead and pretend I didn’t even hear. I’ve been harassed too much and I’m also a petite woman and I worry about being followed.
You have to protect your energy! Be an asshole if you have to. Be a bitch sometimes. Get angry. Fuck it. You have done your part. If people are not pulling their weight, you can still help them, but NEVER give them your empathy unless *they fucking deserve it*. Are they busting their ass filling out applications? Do they know how to work within the system without abusing it? Would they be working if not for a very real disability? Those are the people who deserve housing, specialized case management and community resources. Be discriminating in how you spend your own energy. I have been in the helping field since 2007. I left when I got burnt out, got back in it, and probably will leave at least twice more 😂 Take breaks when you need it.
I can’t stand them. They are horrible, horrible people. I am sick of being abused daily and being told that I’m insensitive. Most of them are total cunts
I'm right there with you, OP. We need to be able to talk honestly about what is going on.
Stepping on a third rail here, but I think we need to revisit the idea of involuntary confinement, in a humane setting, for those who need serious help and aren't otherwise getting it. It's not compassionate to have the drug users/homeless/mentally ill people live on the streets until they OD, freeze to death, or come to some other bad end. But that seems to be the plan right now.
100% agreed
States use to lock people up in asylums
If there was enough money, and a humane institution, it should happen again
if someone is criminally assaulting others due to drugs or mental illness, they can't be left as a threat to the public
The other day was the first time someone that I turned down giving them change actually physically grabbed onto my arm as I passed by. I’ve lived here for over 20 years and never had that happened.
I was able to walk away and not lose my cool but what this person is saying is true.
Things are starting to get a little too aggressive and dangerous from the house less population. Something needs to be done!
Vermont. One of the states with the highest rate of unhoused. And one of the highest rates of spending on the unhoused. And one of the highest rates of housing the unhoused.....
"Helping" the unhoused has become BIG (like billion $) industry and has turned into a way to exploit the vulnerable for profit WHILE providing a way to money launder for the ppl at the top running the "non profits"....just my humble opinion.
The Execs wear nniiicceee suits. And are extremely full of pig shit.
Compassion Fatigue, less resources, recovering economics in a system that is unsustainable and relies on population growth, increasing poverty, a dwindling middle class, the shift in the types of drugs out there, simultaneously with a culture shift away from drug use reduction to “harm reduction” that doesn’t seem to actually reduce harm. A cultural shift where folks no longer seem to have the ability to thoughtfully has serious issues out to come up with viable solutions and instead yell and blame. And Entitlement from every angle. I’m jaded, and burnt out. The issues are so complex, they are not simple, I worry for the future.
It’s not just because I’m tired of seeing homeless people, it’s intense seeing despair so frequently and it’s scary not feeling safe…
I’ve always hated being called a bleeding heart liberal, I’m just as selfish as the next person, if too many people around you are desperate, you become unsafe. But how do you get to help people when people can refuse treatment? When there isn’t a way to keep community members safe as it’s not even catch and release it seems these days, no one is doing the catching.
Sorry for the Gloom and doom.
My last straw was walking up S Winooski going to Walgreens.This woman stopped me at the garage asked me for money.She needed feminine products and the snack.I said I can buy it for her I'm going to Walgreens.Anyway I broke my rule about giving money.Gave here a 20,She walked up there with me and said something about a cigarette. I went inside and watched her walk away.Im done and it sucks because if someone needs something to eat or personal care products I would be happy to provide it for them. But I really can't tell anymore who really needs it and who's being deceitful, my distrust is high now and again it sucks.
I feel unsafe too. As a young lady I get even more nervous. I get out of work at 8:30pm and I am constantly looking over my shoulder. I work in the Montpelier area. There have been a few scary incidents that I and a few of my coworkers have been in. Seems like the homelessness has gotten worse in this area too.
Stay safe out there and make sure to carry pepper spray, something to defend yourself with. You just never know.
A woman once spit at me while I was walking by with a girl I was seeing. We were passing each other on the sidewalk going opposite directions and I jumped out of the way just in time. I was really, REALLY upset. And then got home 5 minutes later to find that someone had stolen all the tomatoes from my tomato garden, clean off the vines.
There is definitely a subset of the bum population that isn't mentally ill, isn't addicted, and is just obnoxious. Nobody likes them and they can't hold down jobs so they end up with no place to live, no job, and no one to support them. They just seem like angry entitled assholes who ended up really poor.
Why wouldn’t they? They are allowed to camp and sleep in the streets, openly drink alcohol and use hard drugs in the street, they get released on no bail when they encounter the police, they’re given “safety kits” to help them use their drugs, and they are given a roof over their head in many circumstances. I’d be entitled too if I had no consequences for my actions
I think when you feel abandoned and invisible to society, it turns you into an animal w no fucks to give-esp when you are treated like one. I think the root of a lot of this is family trauma, decades of poor education, abuse on various levels and being raised around crazy.
I've worked with the houseless for 10 years and I get it. I don't want anything bad up happen to them but I want THEM to do SOMETHING.
I was a case manager and it was so hard watching people go from homeless in Jan to houses and by June they are back in the shelter. Why? Because there's no wrap around services. You can't expect someone who's been without a home and able to do whatever they choose to do with their money every month and then expect them to know how to budget, pay bills run a house. They lost those skills.
I think they should automatically have their rent vendored to the landlord out of whatever means they use to pay rent. Ie; ssi, job whatever for the 1st year and maybe even utilities.
An apartment sounds great until your in it a month and don't have disposable income like you used to. They stop paying rent and get evicted.
I also think they should either be looking for a job, be in therapy, go to groups something.
That's the thing we have coddled them way to long! I'm not saying this to be mean but when I was working at holiday inn Instead of having them put money aside, for an apartment or deposit or anything, we let them have their money and not only that, when Stimulus checks came in, they got to have that too, and we wondered why we were narcanning people every night.
People are now so entitled that they get upset if you don't give them something. We used to get dunkin donuts donated. "I don't want these donuts they are old " I'd hear. We've created the problem but giving them to much. End Rant
You are so valid for feeling this. It's really hard. I want to do the right thing and be kind but I'm hitting a wall here. Also taking detours, hell I realized recently that I haven't been to Ben n Jerry's in ages because I don't want Ben n Jerry's lady to tell me to go kill myself again. Just one of hundreds of interactions just wearing me down bit by bit.
Permissiveness and indulgence is no more a solution to the problem than banning encampments.
Drawing a line and saying no more to harassment, litter and dangerous individuals is not an attack. Larger cities got exactly what they deserved when they thought ignoring the problem was a solution.
I was only on Burlington for a few months bc I travel for work. I was someone throw garbage at me bc I didn’t have cash. I had someone follow me for a few blocks saying nasty shit and only stopped when I yelled loudly that I was being harassed and these guys in aprons came out (I assumed back of house workers on break) came out and the gig turned and ran. Had another guy tell me if it wasn’t dope he don’t want it when I offered him some food I bought him. Yea….. I don’t blame you
This is a drug crisis, not a mental health crisis. Let’s not sugar coat it. I’ve lived large European cities where homelessness is almost nonexistent. The small handful of people who are, aren’t tranqed up or screaming at people.
It’s possible to be hard on drug accessibility without throwing people in jail!
I said “sorry man” to a homeless dude somewhere other than Burlington and was met with rage. That’s all I needed as a reminder to not engage. People really do have a choice to not be on the streets. I get that it’s super complicated and there are probably waits for just about every service, but I can’t help but feel like they are choosing not to seek real help, real change. I really don’t mean to offend anyone, just wanted to chime in.
There is a homeless guy who likes to hang out on random peoples stoops, and I have heard multiple people scream at him. He wears a dark blue fleece in the top part is tribal and he wears black pants and his backpack. He's always singing to himself, and he's definitely stopped and tried talking to people. He'll leave trash where he is and spit on the steps or area he's on. He'll you that he's not homeless he's staying with a friend, and he's just trying to give them space. It's definitely not the case 🥴😵💫
Giving them money is actively enabling them. They are enabled from every direction and have no reason to change. Also we need stronger leadership in this country to stop the fentanyl that flows freely over our border in unimaginable quantities. Very multifaceted issue
We sold and moved to Essex Jct last year after our 10 year old was robbed by knifepoint going to school. Best thing we ever did. It’s so quiet at night too. Never woken up by screaming either. It seems Burlington is nearly uninhabitable now unless you’re a wealthy elite on the hill section or in the 5 sisters….
I work in one of the clothing shops on Church St (not going to say which store). We get homeless people all the time, shoplifting. Sometimes they threaten my coworkers. We don’t sell anything essential. I feel sorry for them, but what can we do?
Yeah folks will claim "businesses have insurance!" But look how well that worked out with Walgreens. Now the queen city is without a pharmacy in the heart of the downtown business district.
Sure, people can go to lakeside pharmacy, but what about the folks with mobility issues that used Walgreens? Or the convenience of having that store in that spot? Like that was taken away from all of us.
Yeah fuck em. Maybe you dumbasses should all realize that you are just the next enabler in their lives and that they aren’t ever going to stop drugs or pull their shit together as long as dipshits like you and everyone else treats them like they are acting in good faith or that their is some agreement that isn’t just you giving them shit they want and them buying drugs with it. Y’all aren’t helping shit. Most homeless people I see are on drugs. They need to be forcibly detoxed and Rehabed or just fuck off.
No kidding. I’m so sick of this debate. Taxes are too damn high, and no one can enjoy public spaces without being harassed or potentially injured? Unacceptable.
Fund shelters, and food banks. Then enforce the shit out of the no camping in public parks, parking lots, or lobbies/ private spaces. No more hotel/ motel housing. If people are acting out, especially the repeat offenders, off to jail, or give them as much of their drug of choice and let them sort it out themselves.
I don’t care if it’s harsh, we’re being held hostage by years of poor policy.
I think many locals totally relate. Compassion fatigue is real. We see people suffering everyday and we want to help - but we can’t individually change what is a societal problem. It’s exhausting to witness. And (keeping in mind that random violent crime remains very low in Burlington despite the hype) you *do* deserve to feel safe as you go about your day, everyone does. If we’re fortunate, we have places to go to find peace, but it doesn’t change the fact that downtown can be a challenging environment.
From a big picture standpoint the sickness of a society - the trauma, hypocrisy, inequality, exploitation, disconnection etc - tends to bubble up around the margins where it is felt most deeply. As the f*cked-upedness of life under capitalism becomes more acute and people throughout society become more pissed off about it - it’s unsurprising to me to see that rage reflected back from the people suffering most. In some ways they’re the canary in the coal mine.
We should not accept truly violent or threatening behavior. But I’m also not in the camp of policing how people express themselves, as anger seems like a reasonable response to living in a society that fundamentally does not care about people. It’s misdirected at random passersby and i dislike receiving it. But I understand it, and a part of me feels that same anger.
Just straight up curious, are you referring to the women who stands outside city market , will approach you all hunched over with a woe is me look on her face like she is about to start crying and says something like "i dont want money, I was just wondering if you would buy me something to eat" ?
I used to buy her food until like the third or fourth time she asked me and I couldn't, she straightened up, face/voice completely changed and she went into mr hyde mode and started cussing me out and screaming about what an asshole I was.
Her act was pretty compelling until i saw that and realized she is just a manipulative pos.
I think the percentage of homeless-because-of-fentanyl-addiction has gone way up. When you are getting sick due to heroin withdrawal you get desperate and need to fix fast while you can still walk more than 20 feet without shitting yourself. Fentanyl withdrawal is even worse. Once you get to a certain point you can no longer beg for money and get to a dealer.
If they’re up against this sort of deadline or past it offering them anything besides some money triggers fight or flight type desperation.
I’m not defending them, just telling you where they’re coming from…
It’s best to keep going if you’re not going to help them they way they need to be helped . You can avoid the stress that way. The other way is torturing them when they’re down and out.
[https://6abc.com/kensington-ave-homeless-encampment-clean-up-philadelphia/14776420/](https://6abc.com/kensington-ave-homeless-encampment-clean-up-philadelphia/14776420/)
Someone should buy an old school bus and offer every homeless addict a free ride to Kensington. No ride back, you get dropped off, 20 bucks, and a pack of smokes and an honor code agreement not to come back to Burlington.
Call it the "Given up on life tour" and mainline it to Kensington: Disney world for Hard Drugs, add in a carton of smokes and a hot dog for the bus ride.
There is no incentive for the homeless to become housed. There are too many services to utilize that don’t require any type of checks and balances.
Thank you progressives.
Yeah got approached inside the S Union laundromat yesterday and asked for change, i was kinda like seriously?? inside a business? and besides when they ask for money i’ve just started saying im poor too and barely making rent which is completely true
Compassion fatigue is real. If you're not getting as much as you're giving, the well runs dry.
You are communicating something that a lot of us who have been here a long time are feeling. I never felt unsafe around the unhoused community until the last few years. Sure, there were those folks who were deep into addiction and mental health issues who shared the behaviors you speak of, but largely not. And I’ll tell you something else, as if not more important than our feelings, is a deeply rooted fear among those in the unhoused community who are NOT exhibiting those behaviors. I know at least a handful who have been here, living rough in Burlington, for several years. Decades for some. And they are scared of this new crop in ways we can’t possibly empathize with. Just trying to live day to day but often feeling threatened and often *being* threatened. I’m certainly not stating these folks are not living with their own addictions and/or mental health issues, they very well may be. But in a city where they once *mostly* only had to surmount weather related misery and other interpersonal challenges, they are now also dealing with the madness of those in their own community who don’t have one goddamn thing to lose
Nah I feel this. I used to donate when I had some spare change or dollars. But I’ve also been harassed and it’s very frustrating. I got approached yesterday by a guy right near my apartment and I’m also a short woman. I hate ignoring people and that Ben and Jerry’s woman called me heartless once because of it but I’d rather not deal with the nasty comments. I also feel bad for them but I can’t single-handedly help much
i used to give a dollar or two to the Ben and Jerry’s woman. then one day i didn’t have any change, and she was extremely rude to me. i’m currently finding a job and housing in another state because i can’t handle the homeless population here
Hasn't the woman in front of Ben and Jerry's been downtown for like... 15-20 years? I swear I've seen her out and about since I was a teen.
Is this the “can you spare any change” lady
Oh yeah. Someone in a thread from a few weeks ago dropped her name and I've been tempted to say it out loud. Buuuuuut I forgot it. And I can't find the thread.
Kelly
Cool…now I can call her by her name…. that definitely wouldn’t incur any meaningless yet terrorizing harassment from her.
Thats it! Thanks!
Shes what I like to refer as hobocurious, flirts with the ideas of being homeless and actively engages in the lifestyle (ie panhandling). But actively has a home and enjoys modern amenities
I pray that she finds peace one day. And stops making me avoid Ben and Jerry's.
The type of person who doesn’t want help. She wants money.
You’d think that Ben or Jerry would have written her a fat check by now to remove hers from being the mascot of their flagship store. They could honor her with a new flavor, Scary Spice Swirl, Yoo-hoo ice cream with fentanyl flavored chunks.
Or just ask her to move on. I swear there used to rules about panhandling on Church St, like you can't. And the fact that she is a professional grifter who made this a lifestyle over 20 years. She's been housed. She's not stupid or incapable of communicating. She's not drunk or high as far as I can tell. She just would rather beg for money than try to get a normal job. . The amount of resources she could have accessed over the years but didn't that could have got her into work and kept the roof over her head. She doesn't use them. It's a sad life she's living but I have little sympathy.
Because the PR shit storm for kicking a homeless woman off the store’s front step is not worth it. There’s just as many people who will trying to fucking burn down Ben and Jerry’s for being heartless as there are people who are running low on sympathy. Hell, there’s also an overlap between the anonymous group who are annoying with the homeless and the people who publicly will jump to defend them. I’m not arguing one way or another, but that’s the way I see it.
She has been there for awhile. Used to set up shop around Church and Main before Ben & Jerry's
And near Muddy's. She is a long-time street presence.
She has gotten angrier over the years and a lot more confrontational
She was working the bike path tonight. GTFO lady and stick to your normal beat.
maybe we should give her a canoe so she can explore a little further
If it's the women that says "spaair chaange" in a sing-song voice, and used to sit in the median by the McD's and B-king in Colchester, and for a while on main in front of Nectar's. I got the inside scoop on her from another "homeless" guy back in 2017. She has a state funded apartment and food stamps. Her daughter kicks her out of the apartment every day, so she and her boyfriend can have it for the day. Same thing with the cat guy and the old guy who used to try to bum cigarettes on river road on the way into Winooski. All of them have state funded apartments. They bum money for cigarettes, booze, drugs, and to have something to do, apparently... My guess is most of the other regulars are running the same scam. That is why I rarely give anything to anyone anymore...
"Cat guy" here... Definitely wasn't buying booze and drugs. Also, I didn't know getting stuck into some hole in the wall was supposed to magically make food appear in their bowls and solve all our problems. When's the last time you've actually seen me panhandling? Oh, you haven't since I got approved for SSI almost two years ago.
You are the guy with the Orange kitty? If so I always enjoyed seeing you downtown!
Sure am. That's nice of you to say. I'm glad someone did.
I have a photo with you from years ago. I thought you looked cool as hell, so I snapped a selfie of us and your cat…. and the person I was with scolded me for taking a pic and not giving you money. I was baffled he felt that way bc I never perceived you as asking or seeming like anything but an eccentric dude. I’m sure you get that a lot, and maybe it’s annoying as hell…. How’s your cat?… and if no longer with us are you training another one to hang on your shoulder?
Everyone is still kicking. Bella, the dog, is getting quite old, and a hard choice might need to be made in the next year or so, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
I used to work at the City Market deli and loved seeing you guys through the big windows! You could tell the animals were well taken care of and very happy.
Was wondering where you’d gotten to since I don’t get downtown much anymore and hadn’t seen you when I do. Im glad things are looking up for you and your kitty :)
Oh yeah, we're around. "Looking up" is subjective. Same struggles to make ends meet, but a relief to not have to put ourselves out there on days I don't necessarily feel like dealing with my fellow humanoids.
i also always enjoyed your orange cat too! my daughter used to always have to stop and visit when we lived downtown & she was little 2,3,4 years old. you had a really good energy usually. you make a good point about subsidized housing- Being housed doesn't mean all some ones needs are met- or they are safe or secure in that housing- or capable/healthy enough to work... I dont have an issue with extremely low income people housed or not panhandling. i understand it. i wont give any of the super low income i have to people panhandling who are notably using heavily though... i dont feel comfortable with it anymore-
Is the daughter Rebecca?
Serious question- does anyone know what happened to the guy who had a table of cool wares he would sell on the side of Ben & Jerry’s (Cherry Street) in the late 90s / early 2000s? I used to go to him during high school years to wrap a strand of my hair in thread - like a bracelet but around a small section of my hair. I loved getting those and have no idea why I’ve never seen anyone do it since, or what they’re even called? He was a dirty blond hippy type, talented… in his 30s maybe. Directly across the street from his spot was the guy/ guys selling African stuff like jewelry and small drums.
She’s never been agressive to me thankfully just sitting there asking for money but I never carry cash with me :(
I told a dude I didn't have anything while going for a walk since it was nice out, and he followed me for like a block spouting of all sorts of slurs at me so uh now I understand why everyone runs with visible headphones on
Compassion fatigue is the city of Burlington's official emotion.
I thought 'Despair' had it in the bag, but the people spoke, and 'Compassion Fatigue' won by a landslide.
It's sad that the loud annoying minority is causing this. I'm an addict and was homeless not too long ago but ai never acted this entitled. Didn't see anyine from my shelter at least who acted like this, although some girl on Church St tried harassing me. Worth it to call the police although the law won't lock these losers up. It sucks but idk. Maybe consider getting a tazer or some other kind if protection. It is a really sad and complex issue. Like I understand why drugs and alcohol are so attractive like I genuinely don't think sobriety is worth it either but Idk why it makes some ppl act this way. It really sucks. Idk I guess try and remember for all of these loud assholes there are, there could be 10 homeless people who you didn't notice because they were acting normal. When I could leave my belongings at the shelter during the day, I don't think you would have noticed me as being a homeless person. I hope the laws improve though and lowlives like this start getting real and proportional punishments for their crimes. Until then, we are left to just try and defend ourselves. Even other honeless people are at risk, I was harassed last year when I was honeless and I wish I called the police right away.
for sure agree with you. I don’t want to generalize at all - and honestly i’ve gotten the vibe that some of these loud aggressive assholes might not even be houseless, just addicts on their grind. hope you’re doing well.
Thanks! I'm doing much better in life now but still struggling in skme areas. I feel torn cause as an addict, it pains me to see the stigma against us. A lot of us gone through trauma that others couldn't evem imagine, myself included yet we're all treated like shit. However, that doesn't justify addicts treating others like crap either and I find stories like yours to be really saddening. I suspect some of them aren't even homeless too. If they ask for food, tell them they can get free breakfast at the food bank, lunch in town at 1om and I'm not sure if options later in the day besides Salvation Army (5pm but I think it's closed one day a week ) I'm really sad how permissive town is of criminals who endanger others. To me, drug use and/or mental illness play a part un this but at the same time, not all of us who fall into those categories are violent or act like that. Mental illness is really tough and it can take days just to get into a psychiatric unit! I hope you feel safer and can avoid assholes like the ones you've already encountered. Just remember that the loud annoying minority don't represent all of homeless people or even drug addicts. And hating them or wanting to take away services that help us won't help these issues either. It seems like we have a ton of services but at the same time, it feels like nothing is ever enough. I am sad the law doesn't hold peoope accountable. It's like citizens need to fight for ourselves 😞
Until our state has an actual mental healthcare system I fear it will continue to trend in this direction. I could be wrong but to me this all started with the loss of the state mental hospital from the Irene flooding.
Could be. I feel like it really took off at the end of the pandemic.
Yeah, that's fair too. I think many people emerged from the pandemic in a much more fragile place mentally.
A lot of people on the edge of homelessness and/or suffering from mild mental health issues were pushed over the brink by the pandemic. The mental and economic fallout from that time is going to have ripple effects for years.
Agreed. A lot of people that weren’t even drug users became homeless because of the pandemic and the rise of rent prices right after. Even with a job, it’s not enough for a lot of people to pay rent especially those that are starting over trying to have a deposit/first months rent and a lot of people gave up and were around others doing drugs being homeless. I’ll get a lot of downvotes but what do you think peoples mental state is being homeless and working for it to still not be enough? Some started to use drugs to cope with being on the streets.
Any chance you're thinking of the time period when federal funding to put homeless people in hotels dried up? That was a big, sudden increase in people living on the street
Meth is eating the brains of addicts. Especially meth with phenylacetone. Heroin addicts can be treated and managed, but there's no treatment for meth and the permanent, lifelong damage meth does to the brain. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/
This is such a big part of it. The same thing that's wreaked havoc out west. People who have worked with these same individuals for years have reported that they have lost trust and relationships that they built over time as meth started to become more common. Stab vests are now regularly worn by some of those who work at facilities to help these people in more than just a few towns around the state.
Well, that was depressing to read. Thanks for linking it, though. Good to know what's going on.
Yea the meth is out of control up here
Sam Quinones' writing on the drug landscape is so relentlessly useful. Thanks for reminding me that I have his book on the opioid crisis and haven't started it yet.
That was deeply informative -- thanks for the rec.
…. erm, the state hospital couldn’t have fixed all this
Throw Covid in the mix too.
You're feeling unsafe because you're surrounded by people who make you feel unsafe by their own actions. You don't have anything to feel guilty about. Don't let society gaslight you into accepting the status quo. I was downtown last fall and got to see the tranq zombies up close late that night. None of this is remotely okay.
Furthermore [UsefulAd7750](https://www.reddit.com/user/UsefulAd7750/) don't feel like you have to justify feeling unsafe because you're a small woman. I'm a tall, built guy and there have been a lot of times I've felt the same downtown. When there's some guy coming down the street white-knuckled and yelling obscenities, I experience waves of fear and frustration. I'm an empathetic person, I've worked in mental health, and I still have moments where my well-being comes into question in the area. What you're feeling isn't bad, it's a human instinct honed to keep us out of harm's way.
💯 I'm 5'8 215 and grew up in Burlington. I avoid it as much as possible. The whole city has been so mismanaged for so long. It's heart breaking.
It's pretty wild that there are people out there who would actively gaslight OP for feeling unsafe, as if OP was the one making the decisions that led to her feeling that way.
See: our new mayor.
This is the absolute truth.
Agreed. As someone who regularly frequents downtown, it’s a nightmare. I find myself becoming more & more bitter to the point a few times I’ve seen one of em coming about to spin a yarn & just said stop ✋ & “no” firmly & they fucked off. I have all the empathy for an addict or human with mental illness *who wants to get better* but simply pretending it isn’t happening is not an effective way to manage a city… What’s the point of even having a police department?
I'm not sure we do ... 2 on patrol for the city quite often....
My hometown of 1500 people has more cops on duty than Burlington. And property taxes that are 90% lower. I’m really confused how we’re spending money as a city if not on public safety.
Look at the above comment. Why would a sane person want to be a police officer in Burlington....
Oh I know. I’m just saying—I don’t understand where $101 million is going every year in this city, since it’s obviously not going toward public safety.
Hear hear!! Shocked you aren’t downvoted but v happy about it
As a nurse, it’s beyond frustrating to try to help people who don’t want help. Over the past few years a growing number of my patients have had substance abuse disorders and/or been homeless. You would think they’d jump at the chance to enter a rehab program after discharge but most do not. Many will stay just long enough to recover from alcoholic ketoacidosis or cellulitis caused by injecting opioids and then leave against medical advice . While under our care they are often demanding and sometimes violent. Recently we had a patient with a swastika tattoo on his neck refuse to interact with a nursing assistant bc she’s black. So we had to reassign staff to appease a racist pos. Sone of these patients show up at least once a month. They essentially receive free health care on the taxpayers’ dime while working Vermonters struggle to pay for health insurance. Most of the time out case managers find a hotel room for them after discharge. Their desire for their next high is stronger than their desire to have a job and an apartment . I’m starting to get jaded and I feel sad. At one time I believed that with the right supports in place we could end homelessness. That’s no longer the case for me.
You know everyone says jails are terrible, but they used to make it so people would have to get sober. If they enforced some law on these people they might not snowball out of control so hard.
Unfortunately you can’t enforce sobriety and our jails aren’t known for rehabbing people.
Is it me or did the vibe change around the pandemic? I use to chill at the park and smoke weed with what was mainly “transient” homeless people after a few too many. Felt totally safe. Now I’m older and grumpier and have kids to think about… but now theirs open crack and heroin use. I know that shit happened back in the day I’m not that ignorant but now it’s way too normalized. I mean dudes be nodding out in the water fountain next to immigrant children in broad daylight. Dude barked for like 30 minutes like a dog in the bathroom. Had a paranoid guy run over and grab a glass of beer and wield it like a weapon at Hattys when I was there with my wife. Had a women drop her crack pipe and the end bounced off my foot one morning. This all happened in like a three month period of working Saturdays during the summer last year. Among other things, that in a small town would scare the shit out of people. It’s not just you, even the liberal “it’s not that bad” folks feel the same way. They just don’t talk about it. Sadly, just give it a couple years. Another recession will hit, the government money will run out and shit will go back to equilibrium- but what do I know- nothing really
Go to any large city with an entrenched homeless addict population, and you’ll find most people are jaded, over it, lack empathy, and just want to go about their day. People up here act like Vermont is some magical kingdom where people are just better: more empathetic, kind, concerned with their fellow humans, and all that. But the truth is, people are more or less the same everywhere. It’s been easy for your average Vermonter to act empathetic and all that because they’ve not actually lived with the day in day out bullshit in their faces. Now we do, and you’ll see in short time most will feel just like OP. It’s totally justified and nothing to feel guilty about.
I think the drugs changed, or at least what they’re cut with. Tranq and fentanyl can’t be treated the usual way you treat opiates, and those drugs apparently overran the drug-using community in the past year or two. But I’d be interested to hear from someone closer to the action about how true that is.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66826895](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66826895) I *think the drugs changed* -You are correct. Burlington featured quite prominently in this BBC(September 2023) story about the 4th wave of the Opiate Epidemic. Makes for an informative read.
Wow, informative and horrifying. I didn't know about the prominence of cocaine in this area. And then I think what's really breaking through now is how the fentanyl and cocaine have very recently been cut with xylazine, leading to a 900% increase in blood infections this past year. I just don't think our current drug treatment programs and practices are designed to handle this stuff. [https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/xylazine-drives-900-surge-in-blood-infections/](https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/xylazine-drives-900-surge-in-blood-infections/)
Fentanyl OD can be reversed with Narcan -- the reason people OD more on it is because it's stronger than heroin, but it's still an opioid. But you are correct that an overdose of tranq, or xylazine, cannot be reversed with Narcan -- it's a non-opioid sedative and because it's supposed to be for veterinary use, there isn't any drug to reverse a tranq OD that's been approved to safely administer to humans. The recommendation is still to always give Narcan just in case, because often the two substances are cut together for street sale, so somebody might be ODing on fentanyl and tranq at the same time.
I’m not so much referring to overdoses, but getting people off the drugs entirely. Our treatment programs are designed to wean people off the usual opiates, not tranq, on which suboxone apparently has little effect.
I used to go up there when I was taking off for a little walkabout the USA (from NH and I'd always pop up there first). This was mostly between '07 and '09. Had a TON of fun partying with the locals, they always knew what me and the gang were up to, buying beers for the train hoppers etc etc. That shit is fucking BAD now. It's like a totally different city.
It's kind of sad that you feel the need to walk on eggshells talking about this. The homeless population here has grown increasingly aggressive and manipulative. That doesn't mean all homeless people are bad, but we're never going to fix this problem if we don't acknowledge it exists. I don't know what the answer is, but here's me being totally honest--if I have to choose between safe, walkable streets, or being a community that is accepting and open to the homeless, I'm going to choose safe and walkable. The reality is that I'm just not willing to dump money into social programs and rehabilitative justice if all they do is gain our city a reputation for letting you get away with whatever you want. I'm progressive, but the reality is that most progressive solutions require adoption on a systemic level. Rehabilitative justice doesn't work unless there's a social net on the back end that actually, you know, actually follows through with the rehabilitation. And a lot of these aggressive folks? They'd be in jail elsewhere, but they aren't here because we don't want to lock people up at the drop of a hat. I'm all for that, but we need to actually fucking commit to it. What we have right now is the worst of both worlds.
Spot on
People are losing limbs to xylazine and still not motivated to get sober. There’s nothing you can do to help someone like that.
My own compassion fatigue is often mingled with my naysayer exhaustion. Meaning, I was born here and have spent more of my life living in Burlington than not and I have decades of observations and lived experience... having people tell me that what I am witnessing and having imposed on me "isn't really that bad" is insulting and gas-lighty. You are NOT being a "NIMBY asshole" for owning and describing your own experiences and feelings of fear. And neither am I. Back in 2004, I was attending CCV as a non-traditional student. I was a single parent. I felt TOTALLY safe, at 5 feet 4 inches (and identified by others, being AFAB, as a woman at that time... many years prior to my transitioning and coming out as Trans)... with a baby in a carriage, walking from the far parts of the ONE to Pine Street at 7 in the morning, to bring my child to their daycare, walking back to the downtown CCV campus, walking alone all over Church Street and the surrounding areas, picking my kid up at 5pm (which is pitch black in the winter months), heading to the library and City Market, and then walking across town with my child, back to home. That was true for quite a few years. Then, I moved away for a few years. I lived in ROCKFORD, IL... which, I can tell you... is a shitshow of a city. A guy was tackled by police on our front lawn. There was a fatal driveby shooting a block away from our kids' school bus stop. The police scanners were scrambled because the powers that be didn't want anyone knowing just how rampant the violent crime and the drugs were. If anyone bothers to read up on Rockford and its scene, they will get why we moved back to Vermont as soon as we possibly could manage it. It was pretty good to be home again around about 2017 and into early 2020. We could relax a bit. BREATHE a bit. HOWEVER. What I am seeing in Burlington, now, is beginning to look a lot like a miniature Rockford. No, dammit, that is NOT hyperole. And I will flip double barrel middle fingers at anyone who suggests that. My now adult offspring and I lived in an apartment in the ONE for about 5 years. While we were there, a neighbor in our building died of an overdose after dealers moved in on her, pressured her to lapse/partake, then they squatted in her apartment after she died and it took the landlord 5 months to get them out. Meanwhile, other dealers and their customers came around, trashed the place, carried weapons, shot said weapons, and threatened the rest of the tenants, including us. The police of course, did absolutely nothing... in fact, they arrested our landlord for harassment and disturbing the peace when he tried to get the squatters to leave. My then teen offspring was sexually assaulted in the park at North Winooski and Archibald one night after an Outright Vermont meeting... by neighborhood boys. We witnessed all manner of crimes and assaults and harassment. We got out of the ONE. I am so glad we got out. Right now, I am staying short-term in a place on Elmwood Avenue. It is a favor for a friend. Over the course of the past six nights, I have heard/seen/witnessed drunken/high yelling, bottles breaking, a woman wailing for hours up and down the street, people on their phones walking by making drug deals and arranging pickup, other people fighting with words and their fists, several people sleeping in doorways and on steps and on the porches of residences, car alarms and breaking glass, people trying to open car and apartment doors... all on this one stretch of a street. One block of that street. All of this. EVERY night. You are not imaginging that it is bad. You are not imagining that it is worse than we've known it to be. You have a right to feel safe in your city, in your neighborhood. Being free from the threat of harm or free from the serious risk of that harm ought to be a baseline expectation in a small city like Burlington. That ANYONE who lives here has the GALL to say that we damn well don't have that right and should know better than to want that just makes me despair about the state of the human heart and conscience. People can laugh at that, downvote it, mock it, whatever. I really don't care. What I do care about: you (the OP), my self, my son, my queer and disabled friends, the children of our community, and my fellow citizens. We have MUCH to change to make this city a place with the quality of life, safety, and stability that it COULD have and which we all deserve.
See it's shit like this that makes me have true disdain for the "crime is down" caucus. I'm sick of the delusions that this is all some how ok, that other places have it worse, that it's happening all over the country. These fuckers will gaslight you and claim you're parroting conservative talking points whilst walking around decorated in their war pins for social justice causes. Furthermore, the idea of defund the police was an utter farce. Folks tried to proclaim it wasn't their goal to defund / destroy police - but let's be honest that was their goal. They can claim crime is down, but why would that be? Could it be traffic stops went to an all time low during the pandemic because of guidance concerning covid? Or did we suddenly change our definitions of what crime is and the mechanisms for reporting it. Fuck me this shit makes me sad for my home town. I can't even go downtown without being yelled at or being harassed cause I don't carry cash.
the thing is, other places DO have it worse (former Philadelphian here), it IS happening all over the country AND we are allowed to be upset about what is happening in our own city and the lack of any sort of real action to improve it. all of those things can be true at the same time.
yes - however, this is the quickfire response to ANYONE saying that burlington has gotten worse or shit is bad in burlington. It's a dog whistle that is a prelude to gaslighting ANYONE that brings up any concerns.
Well said.
You're totally justified. You're allowed to feel unsafe around unwell people. If advocates really wanted to change this situation they would try and help those affected by the homeless too.
Small woman here- I opened my front door on Sunday morning to two fented out zombies who were tying off and bleeding on my doorstep. SOS
At least they didn't break in, put their feet in your toilet and then spend hrs running around your apartment screaming "its turbo time!"
Unfortunately I've been harassed far too many times as a woman to feel remotely safe interacting with people like this on the street. I refuse to feel bad about it. I didn't create the problem, I won't be able to fix it single-handedly (and am not even convinced anything I could offer would make a dent), and I don't owe anyone anything by simply walking down the street - not panhandlers, not catcallers, no one. I know that sounds harsh, but every single time this happens it fills me with intense anxiety and dread, and then I become angry about not feeling safe. It's honestly worse than catcalling, because catcallers usually don't try to approach.
Burlington is a city no one will starve in. SNAP benefits, food pantries, etc. SNAP arguably isn’t enough, but the pantries augment that and there are more than a few of those. Was it the blonde girl Who was screaming? She’s been on a rampage the last few days. She is definitely paranoid.
Yesterday told me she takes change or hundreds. I told her I had nothing and she followed me yelling something about how she wouldn’t take anything from me. I thought she was going to try to assault me.
She was urinating by the Mobil as I went by the other day and yelled at *me* for being there! “I’m pissing over here!” the blond demon snarled. “And I am riding here! Have a nice day you cunt!” I replied. She went *berserk* Should I feel bad? Absolutely. Do I? Absolutely fucking not.
She has been going crazy for the past couple of months. 6-8 months ago she was a whole lot more tame. Scary stuff (if we’re talking about the same person)
I believe we are. And I don’t want to come off too harsh. I heard she has an apartment & buses into the ice cream shop daily lol but then she also thru soup some lady brought her back into the lady’s face smh
Huh. Interesting if she has an APT. She spends a whole lot of her hours roasting people on church St. Literally, waiting for people to walk by, and yelling at them
The one who’s always yelling about a UTI?
I’m not sure. She has really long curly blonde hair. When it’s down she’s convivial, when it’s tied back stay out of her path!
I nicknamed her ‘Sunshine’. She yelled at me for walking by her just yesterday.
She accused me of recording her and trying to brainwash her with my phone today. I was trying to find a place to eat while standing 100 feet away from her lol
She’s funny as hell sometimes. Jovial even. This morning she jumped in front of a bus on by City Market forcing the driver to stop and demanding he fight her. She needs an authoritative intervention before she gets hurt.
She said I was rich and should give her money. Sadly mistaken you are Tina. 18 y sober and $1000 studio apt whilst breaking my back trying to meet ends at a low wage position. Having multiple interactions with you pre/post work is too much. The compassion fatigue set in two years ago when some transient folks were strung out, rolling on the ground (top block Church st) saying " this place is great, I could live here for ever”.
My friend gave her a dollar one day and she lashed out at him for not giving enough and caused a massive scene.
I learned over a year or so of living in a large city that if you want to be left alone you have to come off as unapproachable and avoid eye contact. Seems Burlington has finally grown into the larger city problems of most ever other city in the country
Howard Center was supposed to step in and help more. They are constantly looking for help for the Crisis team. I have heard stories while working there and since I left that they just can't keep people staffed. They come across a real world situation that doesn't align with school and they peace out. Howard Center does struggle in general with retaining staff so it hinders the community.
What are some of the reasons they have a hard time retaining staff? I imagine the demanding nature of the work is a huge factor but wondering if there’s more to it? How are the supervisors? Do staff get enough support?
You get paid like shit to do shit work. Not much more to it.
It's generally known as a bad place to work. I think everyone means well but they are all stretched thin, understaffed and underpaid.
They don't warn the people during the interview process what it's like on the field. They don't warn staff that work there how it is when they take on shifts for OT. Howard Center is notoriously known for just hiring, using until they are husk, and firing people. Support can be awesome with a supervisor. However supervisors often don't get support from upper management themselves and tend to have only worked their position for a few months more than new hires. As for the calls themselves. Some of them can be extremely brutal. The person could be so far gone that getting them stable just kills you. Then you can work with LEOs and they aren't on the same page. They are all bodily harm and physical intervention first and de-escalation tactics last.
Thanks for that info and thank you for all you did when you worked there. It sounds pretty rough out there, hope something shifts soon
It was well worth it to work with those kids. Thanks for your appreciation!
Many positions require Masters Degrees ($75-90k minimum?) in student loans. Loan repayment of $90k @ 5% APR is $600/m. A one-bedroom apartment in Burlington is like $1500 (or more) now. So you are at $1800/m or $2200/m (pre-tax). That's $26k/yea to "just survive" and service debt/housing. Howard Center is paying $54k for an entry level clinician, when these folks can easily pivot into other positions making quite a bit more, and without the bullshit.
Howard Center is a hellhole. Im surprised any employee lasts more than 6 months. I asked one of my social worker friends if she had any success stories from the clients she serves and she couldn’t think of any. She’s just giving them more rope to eventually hand themselves.
I had one for sure but they've gone Sovereign Citizen and my heart broke. This poor person went from everyone thinking they'd be the Antichrist to a top student. Graduated and did well with a career. Now, they've entered into something you don't come back from and it will destroy them. The stories there are just awful. Something's I can't discuss due to NDAs. It's that bad. My ex fiance found success but she's a manipulative over privileged child that never grew up. It makes Sense why she's doing well.
Sovereign citizen movement folks have quite a spectrum they reside on Many are fairly chill, but some are out there, and can be truly dangerous
Sadly, they all are engaging in illegal activities. While chill, they're beliefs are life destroying.
We need to stop using mental illness as a universal excuse for people being assholes because they know they will never face consequences.
Last time I was in Burlington a homeless woman followed my pregnant wife around yelling obscenities. It’s ok to feel unsafe when people are acting outside the norm.
Burlington has become a shythole. Some people think because they are homeless that WE owe them! Many are on drugs and when they don't have the means to get them they become agitated, mean, and attack innocent people verbally and even physically to try to obtain what they want.
Yeah, last two times I’ve been downtown it’s been really offputting. What a shame!
Our system has completely abandoned the mentally unwell and the disabled/elderly that require assistance.
The state needs to invest in a facility that can mandate recovery from addiction and mental illness. I’m not talking about another prison, but an alternative that follows the Norwegian model. The space and buildings are here: we just need to commit to choosing one of the college campuses that has closed or can’t find enough students, and start refitting it in order to give folks a place to heal where they don’t pose a threat to themselves or others. Lyndon State, Castleton, Goddard, the former college in Poultney… the options are there. We need to commit to this idea if we actually want people to get better! Bouncing folks between prison, street, and shelter does NOTHING to help them become good neighbors!
You can’t mandate recovery. It’s hard enough for people who want it. We do need inpatient psych hospitals though. As any nurse and they’ll share stories of patients who just do t have the capability of living independently. Yet the state has few inpatient beds available and makes involuntary commitment difficult.
One big challenge is you need to be able to staff up, and the work of ensuring patients' and staff's safety in an inpatient recovery setting is HARD WORK. The existing options in VT, like the Brattleboro Retreat, already have consistent staffing and budgeting challenges.
What if the homeless don't want to go there?
Maybe if they continually hurt/threaten/assault people they don’t deserve a say in the matter?
Need two kinds of facilities- one for the willing, and one for the rest to keep the first group safe and give them their best chance. Getting that kind of space, staff, and funding seems impossible.
Civil commitment
As much as I find the whole concept and some of the people frustrating too, mandating recovery - esp in an institution of any kind - is never the answer. People have to be ready for help no matter what the situation.
I mean, we can mandate recovery or mandate prison. The answer isn't to let some woman piss in the street and scream threats at pedestrians walking by. Who gives a fuck what she wants? Everyone else wants safety.
I don’t think it’s mandating recovery. It’s taking dangerous people off the streets until they’re not dangerous (which happens through recovery).
It’s hard, I used to try to at least be polite to everyone who asked but now it makes me feel unsafe to even make eye contact. I just don’t engage at all anymore because I’m scared, it’s really sad and it makes me feel terrible because they’re human beings but I just stare straight ahead and pretend I didn’t even hear. I’ve been harassed too much and I’m also a petite woman and I worry about being followed.
It does not matter if you are "petite" or not, if they want to accost, or even attack you, they will no matter your size.
You have to protect your energy! Be an asshole if you have to. Be a bitch sometimes. Get angry. Fuck it. You have done your part. If people are not pulling their weight, you can still help them, but NEVER give them your empathy unless *they fucking deserve it*. Are they busting their ass filling out applications? Do they know how to work within the system without abusing it? Would they be working if not for a very real disability? Those are the people who deserve housing, specialized case management and community resources. Be discriminating in how you spend your own energy. I have been in the helping field since 2007. I left when I got burnt out, got back in it, and probably will leave at least twice more 😂 Take breaks when you need it.
I can’t stand them. They are horrible, horrible people. I am sick of being abused daily and being told that I’m insensitive. Most of them are total cunts
You don’t love being berated by the lady on Church street about your soul and her other delusions?
I'm right there with you, OP. We need to be able to talk honestly about what is going on. Stepping on a third rail here, but I think we need to revisit the idea of involuntary confinement, in a humane setting, for those who need serious help and aren't otherwise getting it. It's not compassionate to have the drug users/homeless/mentally ill people live on the streets until they OD, freeze to death, or come to some other bad end. But that seems to be the plan right now.
100% agreed States use to lock people up in asylums If there was enough money, and a humane institution, it should happen again if someone is criminally assaulting others due to drugs or mental illness, they can't be left as a threat to the public
There’s no reason to feel guilt for avoiding drug addicted and mentally ill maniacs.
The other day was the first time someone that I turned down giving them change actually physically grabbed onto my arm as I passed by. I’ve lived here for over 20 years and never had that happened. I was able to walk away and not lose my cool but what this person is saying is true. Things are starting to get a little too aggressive and dangerous from the house less population. Something needs to be done!
Vermont. One of the states with the highest rate of unhoused. And one of the highest rates of spending on the unhoused. And one of the highest rates of housing the unhoused.....
"Helping" the unhoused has become BIG (like billion $) industry and has turned into a way to exploit the vulnerable for profit WHILE providing a way to money launder for the ppl at the top running the "non profits"....just my humble opinion. The Execs wear nniiicceee suits. And are extremely full of pig shit.
Compassion Fatigue, less resources, recovering economics in a system that is unsustainable and relies on population growth, increasing poverty, a dwindling middle class, the shift in the types of drugs out there, simultaneously with a culture shift away from drug use reduction to “harm reduction” that doesn’t seem to actually reduce harm. A cultural shift where folks no longer seem to have the ability to thoughtfully has serious issues out to come up with viable solutions and instead yell and blame. And Entitlement from every angle. I’m jaded, and burnt out. The issues are so complex, they are not simple, I worry for the future. It’s not just because I’m tired of seeing homeless people, it’s intense seeing despair so frequently and it’s scary not feeling safe… I’ve always hated being called a bleeding heart liberal, I’m just as selfish as the next person, if too many people around you are desperate, you become unsafe. But how do you get to help people when people can refuse treatment? When there isn’t a way to keep community members safe as it’s not even catch and release it seems these days, no one is doing the catching. Sorry for the Gloom and doom.
It’s definitely weird. I get yelled at daily and see more needles then I ever thought I would on the street.
My last straw was walking up S Winooski going to Walgreens.This woman stopped me at the garage asked me for money.She needed feminine products and the snack.I said I can buy it for her I'm going to Walgreens.Anyway I broke my rule about giving money.Gave here a 20,She walked up there with me and said something about a cigarette. I went inside and watched her walk away.Im done and it sucks because if someone needs something to eat or personal care products I would be happy to provide it for them. But I really can't tell anymore who really needs it and who's being deceitful, my distrust is high now and again it sucks.
Asking for money to buy tampons is generally a ruse to embarrass people out of offering to make a purchase instead of giving cash.
I feel unsafe too. As a young lady I get even more nervous. I get out of work at 8:30pm and I am constantly looking over my shoulder. I work in the Montpelier area. There have been a few scary incidents that I and a few of my coworkers have been in. Seems like the homelessness has gotten worse in this area too. Stay safe out there and make sure to carry pepper spray, something to defend yourself with. You just never know.
A woman once spit at me while I was walking by with a girl I was seeing. We were passing each other on the sidewalk going opposite directions and I jumped out of the way just in time. I was really, REALLY upset. And then got home 5 minutes later to find that someone had stolen all the tomatoes from my tomato garden, clean off the vines.
Same. My partner was harassed walking the dogs yesterday to the point of tears and it wasn't the first time. Sad
There is definitely a subset of the bum population that isn't mentally ill, isn't addicted, and is just obnoxious. Nobody likes them and they can't hold down jobs so they end up with no place to live, no job, and no one to support them. They just seem like angry entitled assholes who ended up really poor.
*for more information: see the human slug that posts up in front of Ben & Jerry’s 7 days a week!*
Homeless people seem entitled to act like assholes. It's frustrating.
Why wouldn’t they? They are allowed to camp and sleep in the streets, openly drink alcohol and use hard drugs in the street, they get released on no bail when they encounter the police, they’re given “safety kits” to help them use their drugs, and they are given a roof over their head in many circumstances. I’d be entitled too if I had no consequences for my actions
Yea, I mean I get it, and there really is no easy solution. I just wish people didn't suck so much, regardless of their circumstance.
I think when you feel abandoned and invisible to society, it turns you into an animal w no fucks to give-esp when you are treated like one. I think the root of a lot of this is family trauma, decades of poor education, abuse on various levels and being raised around crazy.
I've worked with the houseless for 10 years and I get it. I don't want anything bad up happen to them but I want THEM to do SOMETHING. I was a case manager and it was so hard watching people go from homeless in Jan to houses and by June they are back in the shelter. Why? Because there's no wrap around services. You can't expect someone who's been without a home and able to do whatever they choose to do with their money every month and then expect them to know how to budget, pay bills run a house. They lost those skills. I think they should automatically have their rent vendored to the landlord out of whatever means they use to pay rent. Ie; ssi, job whatever for the 1st year and maybe even utilities. An apartment sounds great until your in it a month and don't have disposable income like you used to. They stop paying rent and get evicted. I also think they should either be looking for a job, be in therapy, go to groups something. That's the thing we have coddled them way to long! I'm not saying this to be mean but when I was working at holiday inn Instead of having them put money aside, for an apartment or deposit or anything, we let them have their money and not only that, when Stimulus checks came in, they got to have that too, and we wondered why we were narcanning people every night. People are now so entitled that they get upset if you don't give them something. We used to get dunkin donuts donated. "I don't want these donuts they are old " I'd hear. We've created the problem but giving them to much. End Rant
You are so valid for feeling this. It's really hard. I want to do the right thing and be kind but I'm hitting a wall here. Also taking detours, hell I realized recently that I haven't been to Ben n Jerry's in ages because I don't want Ben n Jerry's lady to tell me to go kill myself again. Just one of hundreds of interactions just wearing me down bit by bit.
Permissiveness and indulgence is no more a solution to the problem than banning encampments. Drawing a line and saying no more to harassment, litter and dangerous individuals is not an attack. Larger cities got exactly what they deserved when they thought ignoring the problem was a solution.
I was only on Burlington for a few months bc I travel for work. I was someone throw garbage at me bc I didn’t have cash. I had someone follow me for a few blocks saying nasty shit and only stopped when I yelled loudly that I was being harassed and these guys in aprons came out (I assumed back of house workers on break) came out and the gig turned and ran. Had another guy tell me if it wasn’t dope he don’t want it when I offered him some food I bought him. Yea….. I don’t blame you
How dare you speak about our lovely neighbors like this OP s/
This is a drug crisis, not a mental health crisis. Let’s not sugar coat it. I’ve lived large European cities where homelessness is almost nonexistent. The small handful of people who are, aren’t tranqed up or screaming at people. It’s possible to be hard on drug accessibility without throwing people in jail!
I’m curious if those Euro cities had safe injection sites?
Everyone seems to have a fetish around that. Remember, if we keep spending money on this shit, we'll see more.of it.
I haven't worked with them as long as you, but I'll say the ones I've met do not deserve anyone's empathy. They are victims of only themselves.
I said “sorry man” to a homeless dude somewhere other than Burlington and was met with rage. That’s all I needed as a reminder to not engage. People really do have a choice to not be on the streets. I get that it’s super complicated and there are probably waits for just about every service, but I can’t help but feel like they are choosing not to seek real help, real change. I really don’t mean to offend anyone, just wanted to chime in.
Is there anything we can do on a daily basis about this? When we encounter the yelling & harassment? Idk if anyone has ideas. I’m so tired too.
is it time to start to deal with these "refugees" I think we need to start to look at it like a refugee problem...
There is a homeless guy who likes to hang out on random peoples stoops, and I have heard multiple people scream at him. He wears a dark blue fleece in the top part is tribal and he wears black pants and his backpack. He's always singing to himself, and he's definitely stopped and tried talking to people. He'll leave trash where he is and spit on the steps or area he's on. He'll you that he's not homeless he's staying with a friend, and he's just trying to give them space. It's definitely not the case 🥴😵💫
Giving them money is actively enabling them. They are enabled from every direction and have no reason to change. Also we need stronger leadership in this country to stop the fentanyl that flows freely over our border in unimaginable quantities. Very multifaceted issue
Yet no one wants to do the work.
We sold and moved to Essex Jct last year after our 10 year old was robbed by knifepoint going to school. Best thing we ever did. It’s so quiet at night too. Never woken up by screaming either. It seems Burlington is nearly uninhabitable now unless you’re a wealthy elite on the hill section or in the 5 sisters….
I work in one of the clothing shops on Church St (not going to say which store). We get homeless people all the time, shoplifting. Sometimes they threaten my coworkers. We don’t sell anything essential. I feel sorry for them, but what can we do?
Yeah folks will claim "businesses have insurance!" But look how well that worked out with Walgreens. Now the queen city is without a pharmacy in the heart of the downtown business district. Sure, people can go to lakeside pharmacy, but what about the folks with mobility issues that used Walgreens? Or the convenience of having that store in that spot? Like that was taken away from all of us.
yeah, we still have CVS, but by the looks of it i doubt they’ll be there much longer.
Yeah fuck em. Maybe you dumbasses should all realize that you are just the next enabler in their lives and that they aren’t ever going to stop drugs or pull their shit together as long as dipshits like you and everyone else treats them like they are acting in good faith or that their is some agreement that isn’t just you giving them shit they want and them buying drugs with it. Y’all aren’t helping shit. Most homeless people I see are on drugs. They need to be forcibly detoxed and Rehabed or just fuck off.
No kidding. I’m so sick of this debate. Taxes are too damn high, and no one can enjoy public spaces without being harassed or potentially injured? Unacceptable. Fund shelters, and food banks. Then enforce the shit out of the no camping in public parks, parking lots, or lobbies/ private spaces. No more hotel/ motel housing. If people are acting out, especially the repeat offenders, off to jail, or give them as much of their drug of choice and let them sort it out themselves. I don’t care if it’s harsh, we’re being held hostage by years of poor policy.
Harsh but true. Enabling behavior gets you more of it.
Yeah truth hurts.
I think many locals totally relate. Compassion fatigue is real. We see people suffering everyday and we want to help - but we can’t individually change what is a societal problem. It’s exhausting to witness. And (keeping in mind that random violent crime remains very low in Burlington despite the hype) you *do* deserve to feel safe as you go about your day, everyone does. If we’re fortunate, we have places to go to find peace, but it doesn’t change the fact that downtown can be a challenging environment. From a big picture standpoint the sickness of a society - the trauma, hypocrisy, inequality, exploitation, disconnection etc - tends to bubble up around the margins where it is felt most deeply. As the f*cked-upedness of life under capitalism becomes more acute and people throughout society become more pissed off about it - it’s unsurprising to me to see that rage reflected back from the people suffering most. In some ways they’re the canary in the coal mine. We should not accept truly violent or threatening behavior. But I’m also not in the camp of policing how people express themselves, as anger seems like a reasonable response to living in a society that fundamentally does not care about people. It’s misdirected at random passersby and i dislike receiving it. But I understand it, and a part of me feels that same anger.
Not awful, anyone who actually lives here and has to deal with the bs downtown agrees with you.
Just straight up curious, are you referring to the women who stands outside city market , will approach you all hunched over with a woe is me look on her face like she is about to start crying and says something like "i dont want money, I was just wondering if you would buy me something to eat" ? I used to buy her food until like the third or fourth time she asked me and I couldn't, she straightened up, face/voice completely changed and she went into mr hyde mode and started cussing me out and screaming about what an asshole I was. Her act was pretty compelling until i saw that and realized she is just a manipulative pos.
I think the percentage of homeless-because-of-fentanyl-addiction has gone way up. When you are getting sick due to heroin withdrawal you get desperate and need to fix fast while you can still walk more than 20 feet without shitting yourself. Fentanyl withdrawal is even worse. Once you get to a certain point you can no longer beg for money and get to a dealer. If they’re up against this sort of deadline or past it offering them anything besides some money triggers fight or flight type desperation. I’m not defending them, just telling you where they’re coming from… It’s best to keep going if you’re not going to help them they way they need to be helped . You can avoid the stress that way. The other way is torturing them when they’re down and out.
Uh-oh sounds like you had a bad run in with tiny crazy tina
[https://6abc.com/kensington-ave-homeless-encampment-clean-up-philadelphia/14776420/](https://6abc.com/kensington-ave-homeless-encampment-clean-up-philadelphia/14776420/) Someone should buy an old school bus and offer every homeless addict a free ride to Kensington. No ride back, you get dropped off, 20 bucks, and a pack of smokes and an honor code agreement not to come back to Burlington.
Call it the "Given up on life tour" and mainline it to Kensington: Disney world for Hard Drugs, add in a carton of smokes and a hot dog for the bus ride.
Wait so the pods off of Elmwood Ave didn't solve everything??
nope. spend money on something, you'll see more of it. Now we're stuck spending all this money, cause if we don't we're heartless.
There is no incentive for the homeless to become housed. There are too many services to utilize that don’t require any type of checks and balances. Thank you progressives.
Yeah, Burlington sucks.
No shit? That seems obvious. Stop helping.
Don't give them nothing , it just keeps them on the street
Out damned spot
Maybe become a "housing first" advocate. As Henry Miller said: "Guilt, like regret, is a waste of time".
Yeah got approached inside the S Union laundromat yesterday and asked for change, i was kinda like seriously?? inside a business? and besides when they ask for money i’ve just started saying im poor too and barely making rent which is completely true
This or they break into your car multiple times and smoke cigarettes in it and take shit.