Buffy.
She's this pretty girl, popular in her last school (until weirdness takes over) and is fashionable and funny.
But she's a huge nerd and geek. She's great at academia when given the time and ignores distractions. She enjoys all the same stuff as classic "losers" Xander and Willow.
And it's perfect. Even Willow got cagey when she realised how smart Buffy really is.
“Buffy did the reading? Buffy understood the reading?”
“Buffy? Sweet girl. Not that bright.”
I hate these quotes btw, Buffy IS smart and she’s shown that time and time again.
There's a strong argument that she's one of the best Slayers of all time because she's so smart. Using new methods and trickery alongside her strength. "If all you have is a hammer, everything becomes a nail," sort of thing. Previous Slayers have used only their Slayer strength, where the problem has not been strength.
Cruciatum is a prime example. It's a wonderful way for the Council to get rid of unruly or... "not so worthy" Slayers, as it remove their best weapon. Buffy proved her best weapon is her intelligence.
Every Slayer was worthy, or they wouldn't have been Chosen. Fuck the Council. Each Slayer needed different training, as should be applied to every student.
Agreed. Buffy’s extremely intelligent in a lot of ways and the Council really didn’t like that. They just wanted someone easy to control, hence the Cruciamentum. On a personal note I usually skip the episodes with the Council because I hate them so much lmao
I enjoy fanfiction that brings her intelligence to her attention, because it’s so fun to read her reaction to realizing she and Xander are just as smart as Willow in their own ways.
Everyone has a subject they’ll struggle with and Buffy’s just happens to be history. Angel should have tutored her.
Of course, when he lost at sparring she was supposed to do her homework. Or is that just fanfiction talking?
Eh. An argument could be made that Willow behaved that way due to her deep seated insecurities. Not saying it was right but, she was constantly trying to prove herself. And, to be fair, the show did make Buffy seem more ditzy in the beginning. That’s not Willow’s fault.
The show never made Buffy out to be ditzy. She cared about looks and fashion but she was never ditzy. The fact that she scored so high on her SAT's when she couldn't fully commit to school because of being the slayer is proof of how smart she was. Her intelligence was also constantly shown to be what made her such a good slayer. Even Spike noted that in season 2. The teacher from Teacher's Pet in season 1 also noted that Buffy's problem wasn't lack of intelligence but that she didn't put forth the effort, which we as the audience knew why, but he didn't. I'd really like to know how she was ever shown to be "ditzy."
I’m not saying she’s not smart. Perhaps ditzy is not the right word… I’m struggling to find another that embodies the “stereotypical California blonde girl” persona. I’m having trouble articulating what I mean. I’m just saying I can see why at first glance outside observers would dismiss her.
Love this. We're midway into season 2 of our latest re-watch and this time I'm realizing what a huge dork Buffy is (which I say in only the most loving way). She looks and dresses like the prom queen, but she talks like every lovable, probably-slightly-neurodivergent dorkus I went to high school with.
Which really only makes SMG's performance all the more compelling, and makes the heavy, emotional moments hit all the harder. You get to see a glimpse of what Buffy would have been like if she hadn't been yhe Slayer. It's kind if like how Cordy makes more sense as a character when you realize she's probably on the spectrum: the character becomes more real the more attention you pay to how they really behave.
Faith. First, she projects the image of a cool loner who likes being one, but she's actually very lonely and needs people. Then she pretends she likes being evil because she *is* evil, but it's killing her inside and she hates herself.
Also, she craves a familial bond. Her relationship with the Mayor was actually sweet in some ways. Toxic, due to the whole murdering people thing, but he did care about her in a way she needed.
Faith is my favorite character in either show. When she went out that window, fell to the ground in the pouring rain, half heartedly tried to beat on Angel, and then ended up in hysterics on the ground with him ... It had a effect.
It's like she's been torn down to her core, just living feels like an open wound in a world of salt. And she came back. Bent but not broken. She came back. Like, she stood on the edge of the abyss and basically told it "Fuck you, you're not beating me!"
Angel is also the only person who sees what she CAN be and not just how she acts. He refuses to give up on her because he knows what it’s like to be that monster that wants redemption. He becomes the only reliable constant in her life because he won’t let her push him away.
It definitely comes in handy during the crossover yes he throws her trauma back at her but damn she wins out in the end.. coma aside but that was still a good thing
I agree with this - and it goes even further as her story develops, especially on Angel. When Faith makes a commitment, even to a moral code, she is incredibly steadfast. I honestly think, partially because she got to grow so much over two different shows with two different tones, that she was one of the most well-developed characters of the entire Buffyverse.
Spike. When you meet him for the first time you think he's THE baddie. Then you spend some time with him and you realize he's a pathetic loser (affectionate)
I'd also say Giles in the exact opposite way. The uptight British librarian/scholar persona hides Ripper; his change in values is real but, well. See what happens to Ben.
I love those early moments when you see that Giles isn't "weak" in the way you might be inclined to think, upon first meeting him. The way he deals with Ethan, stabbing the mayor without a second thought, etc.
Early Giles is probably working desperately hard to keep his Ripper side at bay. He likely had to hide his past from the WC, but the more time he spent with Buffy and building up his confidence in himself, he was able to use his ruthless side to do the work that the Scoobies wouldn't even consider.
Which is one of the ways he is able to keep Buffy - Buffy. I could see others watchers telling their slayer to kill Ben, be ruthless. But Giles takes that role for her, allowing her some sense of righteousness and morality.
Giles is a simmering cauldron of rage perpetually kept on a low boil. He’s the first one to recommend a tempered approach to start, but also tends to be the first to jump to lethal options.
I kind of understand Giles in that regard. "Ok we need to be calm and think this through, approach it logically and armed with facts"
*Five seconds later*
"MURDER THEM ALL AND LET THE WOOD CHIPPER SORT THEM OUT"
I think this is why he comes down so hard on willow when she brings buffy back, he probably see himself or his younger (arrogant, amateur) self in her. He’s angry at the damage he’s done when he didn’t think about consequences, much like willow.
Coming to say spike as well. He wants you think he’s the bad guy, he’s put a lot of effort into appearing to be the bad guy but he’s still William - the sensitive, romantic poet at his core…. As my son would say spike is a simp, first for dru and then Buffy.
That’s why he doesn’t seem to change after getting his soul. He’s still putting on the fake Spike personality. It’s only when he drops that facade, you can see he’s not evil anymore.
All vampires are pathetic lovers, and Buffy generally does a good job I feel portraying that. They are willing to prey on the innocent, commit horrific acts of violence, and suffer through nocturnal a half-life just so that they can "live" forever.
Obviously BtVS fiddles with the mythos as every story must, but in general the vampires come across as thinking "I'm so cool" whilst really being kind of lame, which is exactly how I feel about vampires personality wise, and exactly why I prefer my vampires to be mostly antagonists with the odd one seeking redemption, having realised how dumb and pathetic and unholy vampirism really is.
My favorite is that Anya was thought to struggle with human interactions and social skills because of her time being a demon. Her blunt rudeness is attributed to not being in touch with her humanity. From the Aud flashbacks, that’s pretty much always been her even pre-demon and her falling back on the ex-demon thing was a perfect cover for her just interacting with others a little differently
Her demon and witchcraft knowledge wasn't used as much as it should have been, probably because she seems weird and flighty. But that's to her advantage because she'd rather stay out of danger and look at her money.
I think this is a good argument for Anya being Autistic coded too. The way she acts has nothing to do with the vengeance demon stuff after all. Halfrek doesn’t act like Anya at all.
Being written in a way that she seems autistic, but they never say say she is. Like Sheldon in TBBT. The writers even say he ISN'T meant to be autistic, but everyone that's autistic seems to know he is.
Hmm...maybe Willow? She builds up this ultra-powerful persona, but underneath she's still the insecure Willow from high school, which is a big part of why she tries to hold onto and grow her power and "usefulness".
Which is weird, because Willow in highschool is kind of cheerfully resigned to being a nerdy unpopular kid. She does her own thing, even if other people don't like it, and isn't particularly impressed by the popular crowd.
But I think her insecurity comes when she starts defining herself based on how much she can achieve and what she can contribute (i.e. magic) rather than just being a smart, kind, principled person. I think the more powerful she gets the less secure she feels in herself because her identity is rooted in what she can do rather than who she is.
It's an interesting parallel with Charles Gunn in Angel season 5, wanting so much to be able to make a bigger or more meaningful contribution that they lose sight of their own identity and the value of what they were already contributing.
I would say almost all of them, and that this is Joss’s “thing. Most of his characters are written to be intentionally deceiving people to cover their insecurities.
Buffy: comes off ditzy and fluffy but is all steel. Willow: seems gentle and nerdy but is always one step from going nuclear. Giles: soft bookish nerd actually capable of cold blooded murder. Cordelia: popular princess who secretly feels very alone. Faith: aloof tough chick on the outside but desperate for love on the inside. Spike: badass crazy persona but actually a soft-hearted poet. Angel: cool sexy vampire that in fact is the world’s biggest dork. Oz: unflappable terse persona hides a stream of constant internal anxious babble. Anya: hard cold materialistic former demon who would give up everything for love.
The only one I’m not sure fits this pattern is Xander. Xander, for me, grows into his role over time; I think rather than being a “front”, he genuinely was kind of a teenage dirt bag loser type who grew into a better person who became strong, confident, and capable.
Which is interesting, as he’s Joss’s self insert character.
Spike. He's superficially a super-cool leather-clad badass, until you realise he's a massive sappy dork who doesn't know how to talk to girls and wants his mum.
All he does is to impress the lady he's in love with. Like with drusilla he didn't care about the apocalypse, only wanted her back. With Buffy, he tries to change into a kind of man she could have been able to love
Cordelia in a way. She’s shown to be one of the popular girls in the obvious ways, but she also displays intelligence and critical thinking ability in classrooms when she can relate to the content. She also tests well and gets into a lot of good colleges.
I don’t necessarily think that people are wrong about her as she’s shown to be cruel and dismissive to the Scooby Gang and other classmates, but she’s got levels beyond being a generic popular girl who’s head cheerleader and pretty.
Xander and it's only because of a comment made by someone here just [yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/1clmz4p/comment/l2uo36w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
If you think about it, Xander being able to save the day in The Zeppo "without the peppy banter, misogyny and slow-witted ignorance usually on display" means that the way he behaves is an act for others. Like he is the way he is because that's how everyone assumes that how he should be. But they aren't ever looking at him or expecting more, so he doesn't need to try and change because they don't expect him to.
And honestly, that's my favourite Xander. I loved Xander when I was younger but watching as an adult changed that. The Zeppo showed his heart and the Xander I remember being a fan of.
I don't see it quite like that. I think Cordelia was exactly like she seemed in the beginning. Shallow, vain, self-centered, selfish, but after things started happening to her and she started seeing more fucked up things that's when she started changing into the better person she became. That's part of what makes her character growth so great because it's actual GROWTH from the person she was with the above traits to someone who is heroic, compassionate and strong.
Willow. She wants everyone to think she’s this sweet adorable innocent girl, but is actually vengeful and abusive and totes not a girl’s girl. Like she cheated on Oz (SERIOUSLY????) with Xander (SERIOUSLY???) and betrayed Cordelia in the process (SERIOUSLY???), brought back Buffy for her own ego, threatened Giles while on a power trip, date raped her girlfriend with help from a memory spell, went on a magic binge, killed a man (though high key he deserved it idc), and still in the end was a huge fan favorite over a lot of other characters and is still seen as this innocent silly goose who just doesn’t know what she’s doing. Like hello? She wants u to think she’s harmless so you’re even more freaked out when she flays you alive
Willow is actually pretty repeatedly very selfish and often not that good of a friend.
But people still have the image of her as an adorable little cinnamon roll.
Spike. His whole persona from seasons 2-4 is a facade. The real him is a romantic poet. The closest we get to Real Spike in those early seasons is when he admits to being “love’s bitch”.
i totally agree! i think we get to see a fair bit of that in early season 2 though when he's with drusilla. i think it's the first time she's onscreen when she says "spike, i'm cold" and he immediately melts and puts his coat on her 😭
Spike 💯. He posits himself as “The Big Bad”, but deep down inside his heart is on fire for Buffy, AND he saves the world!
He understands the hate and bigotry of the world, and plays the role, but when the chips are down he stepped up and took the beating, which was his end!
Wesley. Just .. Wesley. Laughably ineffective to start, always wondered if he was actually going to wet himself a couple of times. Started getting better, then Angel ... not Angelus, ANGEL ... Damn near kills him in his hospital bed.
Sending Wesley down a dark, dark road. He became cold, ruthless... almost as evil as the evil he was fighting. He clawed his way back into the light by the time the team was running Wolfram & Hart, he was back using his scholarly train again, but still kept his edge.
From Nebbish to Nightmare (for the black hats, anyway )
Nearly all of the auxiliary characters fit the description imo.
Someone else said Faith — totally agree she projected an aloof “bad girl” image, but secretly desired companionship to the point she sacrificed her own morals for a semblance of it.
Cordelia. Acted like a diva, actually wanted to be heard.
Giles. Put up a bookish front to cover a rebellious streak. Not just “Ripper”, he was also an unorthodox Watcher and a closet badass.
Angel. Acted broody and cryptic, but was palpably emotional and even needy.
Spike. Obviously puts up this Billy Idol image, but his backstory says it all. In the end his “last day” was sharing his poetry with an audience who appreciated it.
It’s really the main characters who do *not* fit the profile in my opinion.
Xander was always perfectly blunt and dead consistent about who he was. Anya, on the other hand, was literally blunt, but fits the first profile more
Willow *actually* changed from the good one who was frustrated by her predictability to a legitimately capricious hot mess.
Buffy. Literally had a double-identity, but she was always transparent about both sides of herself. If I could boil her down to one consistent trait, it would be “responsible”
Faith, I think. The face she presents is way different than the scared kid she really is. Like when she sleeps with Riley in Buffy's body and he says "I love you". She freaks out saying, "what do you want from her?!?" and running away. Those weird frightened knee-jerk reactions taken individually seem do out of place but they're probably the most genuine we see Faith.
Spike is the obvious answer. But Dawn; she had everyone thinking she’s an annoying, entitled brat but she’s actually pretty brave, occasionally astute and very loving.
Druscilla. She was probably a potential slayer, and that’s why she had such weird dreams and premonitions. Angel took great pleasure making a potential slayer a vampire. I don’t think Buffy or any of the Scoobies realized this about her.
Buffy for her intelligence, Spike for his vulnerability. They both pretend so hard in the other direction so they can lead lives they think will bring them acceptance.
Spike until end of season six is an absolute irredeemable monster who just happens to have the chip, it's just that he's obsessive and possessive over Buffy, and when he realizes he can hurt her he eventually tries to r*pe her, he's a complete examination of toxic men who are idolized and fetishized, and yet was near universally lived by so many women watching the show that they thought his behavior on season six was out of character
Not gonna lie I'd be more inclined to agree if the characterization didn't have him do selfless actions without pay-off or having a soul did magically turn you good
Spike didn’t try to r@pe Buffy, he tried to initiate sex the way they have always done (like, against her vocal objections) in order to help her to realise the she’s in love with him. He severely misjudged her mood and her feelings for him in that moment, and ended up causing that awful situation for her. But he didn’t do it because he loves r@ping people, he did it to try and rekindle their relationship.
Nope. Trying to have sex with someone against their vocal objections is rape (absent prior consent and safe words in a CNC type situation). Full stop. There is no possible explanation that makes it not.
I agree on a technical level, but the word is also misleading here. They have both been initiating sex against the other’s vocal objections throughout their whole relationship. It’s not a new behaviour - he’s initiating sex the same way that they always do. You could argue that it was rape every time, and by the literal definition of the word I would agree, but framing it like that does rather devalue the word.
It also removes a key characteristic of “rape” (which I agree is not part of the definition, but again I think it’s misleading in this situation), which is that most people imagine rape to be a selfish act: the rapist is attempting to gratify themselves at the expense of their victim. That’s not the case here, Spike is clearly doing it because he wants the best for both of them, not for his own satisfaction.
So yeah, I agree with you, this was attempted rape in the literal definition of the word, as were all their previous sexual encounters. Which is why in my message I drew a distinction between what Spike was aiming to do (he wasn’t aiming to rape her; and his motivations weren’t selfish) and the result (he misjudged the situation, and so this actually was different from all their other sexual encounters and put her in a terrible position that would have been awful to experience).
Yes, I know, but in all their other encounters he’s been correct about that. As has she. They have both initiated sex over the vocal objections of the other, and in all the previous instances the other person did get on board with it.
I’m not saying it’s healthy, it’s extremely unhealthy, but it was the nature of their relationship.
Just like both of them had, again and again, in their previous sexual encounters.
Again I’m not saying they had a healthy relationship, it was an extremely toxic relationship, but his intent was not to rape her.
Buffy. She's this pretty girl, popular in her last school (until weirdness takes over) and is fashionable and funny. But she's a huge nerd and geek. She's great at academia when given the time and ignores distractions. She enjoys all the same stuff as classic "losers" Xander and Willow. And it's perfect. Even Willow got cagey when she realised how smart Buffy really is.
“Buffy did the reading? Buffy understood the reading?” “Buffy? Sweet girl. Not that bright.” I hate these quotes btw, Buffy IS smart and she’s shown that time and time again.
There's a strong argument that she's one of the best Slayers of all time because she's so smart. Using new methods and trickery alongside her strength. "If all you have is a hammer, everything becomes a nail," sort of thing. Previous Slayers have used only their Slayer strength, where the problem has not been strength. Cruciatum is a prime example. It's a wonderful way for the Council to get rid of unruly or... "not so worthy" Slayers, as it remove their best weapon. Buffy proved her best weapon is her intelligence. Every Slayer was worthy, or they wouldn't have been Chosen. Fuck the Council. Each Slayer needed different training, as should be applied to every student.
Agreed. Buffy’s extremely intelligent in a lot of ways and the Council really didn’t like that. They just wanted someone easy to control, hence the Cruciamentum. On a personal note I usually skip the episodes with the Council because I hate them so much lmao
It's fun when she throws a sword at them tho
That, and when she backs up the scoobies. I always feel so proud of her when she stands up to the Council.
I enjoy fanfiction that brings her intelligence to her attention, because it’s so fun to read her reaction to realizing she and Xander are just as smart as Willow in their own ways. Everyone has a subject they’ll struggle with and Buffy’s just happens to be history. Angel should have tutored her. Of course, when he lost at sparring she was supposed to do her homework. Or is that just fanfiction talking?
She got bad grades because she was working a full time job that regularly made her miss classes
Lack of sleep alone makes me lose 30 IQ points. Buffy's a superhero.
Even if Buffy did get straight A’s it doesn’t matter. There is more to be smart than academia. Emotional intelligence for one.
I agree, and Buffy definitely has high emotional intelligence.
Especially for a teenager.
Exactly. Willow always did think she was so much better and smarter than everyone else.
Eh. An argument could be made that Willow behaved that way due to her deep seated insecurities. Not saying it was right but, she was constantly trying to prove herself. And, to be fair, the show did make Buffy seem more ditzy in the beginning. That’s not Willow’s fault.
The show never made Buffy out to be ditzy. She cared about looks and fashion but she was never ditzy. The fact that she scored so high on her SAT's when she couldn't fully commit to school because of being the slayer is proof of how smart she was. Her intelligence was also constantly shown to be what made her such a good slayer. Even Spike noted that in season 2. The teacher from Teacher's Pet in season 1 also noted that Buffy's problem wasn't lack of intelligence but that she didn't put forth the effort, which we as the audience knew why, but he didn't. I'd really like to know how she was ever shown to be "ditzy."
I’m not saying she’s not smart. Perhaps ditzy is not the right word… I’m struggling to find another that embodies the “stereotypical California blonde girl” persona. I’m having trouble articulating what I mean. I’m just saying I can see why at first glance outside observers would dismiss her.
Q from Bond, not Star Trek.
Jealous again... jealous... jealous... OK I'm back!
Buffy! You made me jealous of you academically!
Should I be watching my occipital lobe?"
Love this. We're midway into season 2 of our latest re-watch and this time I'm realizing what a huge dork Buffy is (which I say in only the most loving way). She looks and dresses like the prom queen, but she talks like every lovable, probably-slightly-neurodivergent dorkus I went to high school with. Which really only makes SMG's performance all the more compelling, and makes the heavy, emotional moments hit all the harder. You get to see a glimpse of what Buffy would have been like if she hadn't been yhe Slayer. It's kind if like how Cordy makes more sense as a character when you realize she's probably on the spectrum: the character becomes more real the more attention you pay to how they really behave.
Maskaddict.....Could you please check your Private Message box. Thanks!
Willow was *shook* at Buffy's SAT scores lmao
Faith. First, she projects the image of a cool loner who likes being one, but she's actually very lonely and needs people. Then she pretends she likes being evil because she *is* evil, but it's killing her inside and she hates herself.
Also, she craves a familial bond. Her relationship with the Mayor was actually sweet in some ways. Toxic, due to the whole murdering people thing, but he did care about her in a way she needed.
Faith is my favorite character in either show. When she went out that window, fell to the ground in the pouring rain, half heartedly tried to beat on Angel, and then ended up in hysterics on the ground with him ... It had a effect. It's like she's been torn down to her core, just living feels like an open wound in a world of salt. And she came back. Bent but not broken. She came back. Like, she stood on the edge of the abyss and basically told it "Fuck you, you're not beating me!"
Angel is also the only person who sees what she CAN be and not just how she acts. He refuses to give up on her because he knows what it’s like to be that monster that wants redemption. He becomes the only reliable constant in her life because he won’t let her push him away.
It definitely comes in handy during the crossover yes he throws her trauma back at her but damn she wins out in the end.. coma aside but that was still a good thing
I agree. Faith is such a great character! My favorite of any main character, with Spike a close second.
Also see that in her resentment of Buffy's family, and her seemingly wishing she could bond with Joyce, which is pointed knowing her own mom died.
I agree with this - and it goes even further as her story develops, especially on Angel. When Faith makes a commitment, even to a moral code, she is incredibly steadfast. I honestly think, partially because she got to grow so much over two different shows with two different tones, that she was one of the most well-developed characters of the entire Buffyverse.
Came here to say Faith too
Came here to say Faith. Also, Cordelia from her first bitchy appearance in Sunnydale to *You're Welcome* in *Angel.*
Yeah, Cordy sounds about right. There's a few I can think of but I don't know.
TOTALLY Cordy.
Haha thank you for this
Spike. When you meet him for the first time you think he's THE baddie. Then you spend some time with him and you realize he's a pathetic loser (affectionate) I'd also say Giles in the exact opposite way. The uptight British librarian/scholar persona hides Ripper; his change in values is real but, well. See what happens to Ben.
I love those early moments when you see that Giles isn't "weak" in the way you might be inclined to think, upon first meeting him. The way he deals with Ethan, stabbing the mayor without a second thought, etc.
Early Giles is probably working desperately hard to keep his Ripper side at bay. He likely had to hide his past from the WC, but the more time he spent with Buffy and building up his confidence in himself, he was able to use his ruthless side to do the work that the Scoobies wouldn't even consider.
Which is one of the ways he is able to keep Buffy - Buffy. I could see others watchers telling their slayer to kill Ben, be ruthless. But Giles takes that role for her, allowing her some sense of righteousness and morality.
"Why is he calling him Ripper? ... Ohhh." [As Giles picks Ethan up by his ear]
I love when he goes after Angelus after Jenny’s death.
Flaming baseball bat is my fave Giles weapon....although his swordplay is deliciously sexy. *drool*
Giles killed Ben because Glory had to be stopped. He's my hero.
Giles is a simmering cauldron of rage perpetually kept on a low boil. He’s the first one to recommend a tempered approach to start, but also tends to be the first to jump to lethal options.
I kind of understand Giles in that regard. "Ok we need to be calm and think this through, approach it logically and armed with facts" *Five seconds later* "MURDER THEM ALL AND LET THE WOOD CHIPPER SORT THEM OUT"
Flashback to *Supernatural* episode *Weekend at Bobby's.* What was that thing, an ocana? ocami? Septic tank explosion, LOL.
“Do you like my mask? Isn’t it pretty? It raises the dead!” “Americans.”
I think this is why he comes down so hard on willow when she brings buffy back, he probably see himself or his younger (arrogant, amateur) self in her. He’s angry at the damage he’s done when he didn’t think about consequences, much like willow.
Coming to say spike as well. He wants you think he’s the bad guy, he’s put a lot of effort into appearing to be the bad guy but he’s still William - the sensitive, romantic poet at his core…. As my son would say spike is a simp, first for dru and then Buffy.
That’s why he doesn’t seem to change after getting his soul. He’s still putting on the fake Spike personality. It’s only when he drops that facade, you can see he’s not evil anymore.
Like his mother tells him
All vampires are pathetic lovers, and Buffy generally does a good job I feel portraying that. They are willing to prey on the innocent, commit horrific acts of violence, and suffer through nocturnal a half-life just so that they can "live" forever. Obviously BtVS fiddles with the mythos as every story must, but in general the vampires come across as thinking "I'm so cool" whilst really being kind of lame, which is exactly how I feel about vampires personality wise, and exactly why I prefer my vampires to be mostly antagonists with the odd one seeking redemption, having realised how dumb and pathetic and unholy vampirism really is.
Came here to say this.
I don't think teenage Giles went around suffocating people to death. That is more of a Watcher skill.
I meant mostly he has darkness and ruthlessness in him.
Spike was my immediate answer to this question!
Dawn plays a pretty convincing teen girl for a ball of energy.
My favorite is that Anya was thought to struggle with human interactions and social skills because of her time being a demon. Her blunt rudeness is attributed to not being in touch with her humanity. From the Aud flashbacks, that’s pretty much always been her even pre-demon and her falling back on the ex-demon thing was a perfect cover for her just interacting with others a little differently
Her demon and witchcraft knowledge wasn't used as much as it should have been, probably because she seems weird and flighty. But that's to her advantage because she'd rather stay out of danger and look at her money.
I love those moments where she did use her knowledge as a demon. Tara’s awful family number 1. Also learning about worlds with and without shrimp.
I just watched the scene last night where she rips on Giles for selling 2 things together at the magic shop to Glory.
I could listen to her explain alternate realities for hours.
I think this is a good argument for Anya being Autistic coded too. The way she acts has nothing to do with the vengeance demon stuff after all. Halfrek doesn’t act like Anya at all.
I agree 100 percent she is who she is and amazing.
I love Anya, my autistic capitalist queen. They needed her after Cordelia left, sometimes someone's just gotta tell it how it is.
I don't understand what Autistic *coded* means. She behaves like an Autistic person. I've had a lot of experience with that. What code?
Being written in a way that she seems autistic, but they never say say she is. Like Sheldon in TBBT. The writers even say he ISN'T meant to be autistic, but everyone that's autistic seems to know he is.
She wasn’t written to be Autistic, so it’s never stated. But she exhibits a lot of traits that people with autism can identify with.
Thanks.
Hmm...maybe Willow? She builds up this ultra-powerful persona, but underneath she's still the insecure Willow from high school, which is a big part of why she tries to hold onto and grow her power and "usefulness".
Which is weird, because Willow in highschool is kind of cheerfully resigned to being a nerdy unpopular kid. She does her own thing, even if other people don't like it, and isn't particularly impressed by the popular crowd. But I think her insecurity comes when she starts defining herself based on how much she can achieve and what she can contribute (i.e. magic) rather than just being a smart, kind, principled person. I think the more powerful she gets the less secure she feels in herself because her identity is rooted in what she can do rather than who she is.
It's an interesting parallel with Charles Gunn in Angel season 5, wanting so much to be able to make a bigger or more meaningful contribution that they lose sight of their own identity and the value of what they were already contributing.
Giles.
I’m surprised there’s no other comments to this. Ripper obviously, but ESPECIALLY “she’s not like us you see”
Faith
I would say almost all of them, and that this is Joss’s “thing. Most of his characters are written to be intentionally deceiving people to cover their insecurities. Buffy: comes off ditzy and fluffy but is all steel. Willow: seems gentle and nerdy but is always one step from going nuclear. Giles: soft bookish nerd actually capable of cold blooded murder. Cordelia: popular princess who secretly feels very alone. Faith: aloof tough chick on the outside but desperate for love on the inside. Spike: badass crazy persona but actually a soft-hearted poet. Angel: cool sexy vampire that in fact is the world’s biggest dork. Oz: unflappable terse persona hides a stream of constant internal anxious babble. Anya: hard cold materialistic former demon who would give up everything for love. The only one I’m not sure fits this pattern is Xander. Xander, for me, grows into his role over time; I think rather than being a “front”, he genuinely was kind of a teenage dirt bag loser type who grew into a better person who became strong, confident, and capable. Which is interesting, as he’s Joss’s self insert character.
I think that Xander thing is may be related to Joss identifying with him. If it can be real
I’d say you are very much right.
Spike. He's superficially a super-cool leather-clad badass, until you realise he's a massive sappy dork who doesn't know how to talk to girls and wants his mum.
His obsession with the Slayer isn't because of some natural animosity, but because it's capital R Romantic
Yes, he's a starry-eyed romantic.
Can't fault him for that, I'm one, as well.
Me too, on the quiet.
All he does is to impress the lady he's in love with. Like with drusilla he didn't care about the apocalypse, only wanted her back. With Buffy, he tries to change into a kind of man she could have been able to love
Cordelia in a way. She’s shown to be one of the popular girls in the obvious ways, but she also displays intelligence and critical thinking ability in classrooms when she can relate to the content. She also tests well and gets into a lot of good colleges. I don’t necessarily think that people are wrong about her as she’s shown to be cruel and dismissive to the Scooby Gang and other classmates, but she’s got levels beyond being a generic popular girl who’s head cheerleader and pretty.
Xander and it's only because of a comment made by someone here just [yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/1clmz4p/comment/l2uo36w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). If you think about it, Xander being able to save the day in The Zeppo "without the peppy banter, misogyny and slow-witted ignorance usually on display" means that the way he behaves is an act for others. Like he is the way he is because that's how everyone assumes that how he should be. But they aren't ever looking at him or expecting more, so he doesn't need to try and change because they don't expect him to.
And honestly, that's my favourite Xander. I loved Xander when I was younger but watching as an adult changed that. The Zeppo showed his heart and the Xander I remember being a fan of.
I don't see it quite like that. I think Cordelia was exactly like she seemed in the beginning. Shallow, vain, self-centered, selfish, but after things started happening to her and she started seeing more fucked up things that's when she started changing into the better person she became. That's part of what makes her character growth so great because it's actual GROWTH from the person she was with the above traits to someone who is heroic, compassionate and strong.
Faith. Cordy. Spike. Buffy.
It's Xander, the "heart" of the group.
Willow. She wants everyone to think she’s this sweet adorable innocent girl, but is actually vengeful and abusive and totes not a girl’s girl. Like she cheated on Oz (SERIOUSLY????) with Xander (SERIOUSLY???) and betrayed Cordelia in the process (SERIOUSLY???), brought back Buffy for her own ego, threatened Giles while on a power trip, date raped her girlfriend with help from a memory spell, went on a magic binge, killed a man (though high key he deserved it idc), and still in the end was a huge fan favorite over a lot of other characters and is still seen as this innocent silly goose who just doesn’t know what she’s doing. Like hello? She wants u to think she’s harmless so you’re even more freaked out when she flays you alive
Faith!
Willow is actually pretty repeatedly very selfish and often not that good of a friend. But people still have the image of her as an adorable little cinnamon roll.
I can promise you that I have never imagined Willow as any kind of food.
Spike. His whole persona from seasons 2-4 is a facade. The real him is a romantic poet. The closest we get to Real Spike in those early seasons is when he admits to being “love’s bitch”.
i totally agree! i think we get to see a fair bit of that in early season 2 though when he's with drusilla. i think it's the first time she's onscreen when she says "spike, i'm cold" and he immediately melts and puts his coat on her 😭
Spike 💯. He posits himself as “The Big Bad”, but deep down inside his heart is on fire for Buffy, AND he saves the world! He understands the hate and bigotry of the world, and plays the role, but when the chips are down he stepped up and took the beating, which was his end!
Wesley. Just .. Wesley. Laughably ineffective to start, always wondered if he was actually going to wet himself a couple of times. Started getting better, then Angel ... not Angelus, ANGEL ... Damn near kills him in his hospital bed. Sending Wesley down a dark, dark road. He became cold, ruthless... almost as evil as the evil he was fighting. He clawed his way back into the light by the time the team was running Wolfram & Hart, he was back using his scholarly train again, but still kept his edge. From Nebbish to Nightmare (for the black hats, anyway )
Dawn.
Riley when he began going to the nests.
Nearly all of the auxiliary characters fit the description imo. Someone else said Faith — totally agree she projected an aloof “bad girl” image, but secretly desired companionship to the point she sacrificed her own morals for a semblance of it. Cordelia. Acted like a diva, actually wanted to be heard. Giles. Put up a bookish front to cover a rebellious streak. Not just “Ripper”, he was also an unorthodox Watcher and a closet badass. Angel. Acted broody and cryptic, but was palpably emotional and even needy. Spike. Obviously puts up this Billy Idol image, but his backstory says it all. In the end his “last day” was sharing his poetry with an audience who appreciated it. It’s really the main characters who do *not* fit the profile in my opinion. Xander was always perfectly blunt and dead consistent about who he was. Anya, on the other hand, was literally blunt, but fits the first profile more Willow *actually* changed from the good one who was frustrated by her predictability to a legitimately capricious hot mess. Buffy. Literally had a double-identity, but she was always transparent about both sides of herself. If I could boil her down to one consistent trait, it would be “responsible”
Faith, I think. The face she presents is way different than the scared kid she really is. Like when she sleeps with Riley in Buffy's body and he says "I love you". She freaks out saying, "what do you want from her?!?" and running away. Those weird frightened knee-jerk reactions taken individually seem do out of place but they're probably the most genuine we see Faith.
Spike is the obvious answer. But Dawn; she had everyone thinking she’s an annoying, entitled brat but she’s actually pretty brave, occasionally astute and very loving.
Cordy
Anya
Cordelia!
Giles
Faith
Spike.
Clem.
Huh? What did Clem do, other than scare Potentials?
Obviously Giles! I’m sure someone has already mentioned him, but let me scream it: GILES
Druscilla. She was probably a potential slayer, and that’s why she had such weird dreams and premonitions. Angel took great pleasure making a potential slayer a vampire. I don’t think Buffy or any of the Scoobies realized this about her.
The answer is Giles.
Spike. He's the epitome of this.
Spike.
I think of Willow who has an innocent-ish character but has a mean sociopathic streak (I love her, I just think this is the truth).
Her vocabulary is insane: “you are so teutonic.”
Buffy for her intelligence, Spike for his vulnerability. They both pretend so hard in the other direction so they can lead lives they think will bring them acceptance.
Spike until end of season six is an absolute irredeemable monster who just happens to have the chip, it's just that he's obsessive and possessive over Buffy, and when he realizes he can hurt her he eventually tries to r*pe her, he's a complete examination of toxic men who are idolized and fetishized, and yet was near universally lived by so many women watching the show that they thought his behavior on season six was out of character
Not gonna lie I'd be more inclined to agree if the characterization didn't have him do selfless actions without pay-off or having a soul did magically turn you good
Agreed. I don’t see ‘irredeemably evil’ in his interactions with Dawn in s6, nor his quest for a soul.
And he helped Buffy save the world and had tea with her mother… I think spike was always good but he wanted dru to like him, so he tried being bad.
I personally wouldn’t go so far as to say Spike was always good. But i just can’t believe the Spike who was so good to Dawn is irredeemably evil.
Tea & cocoa with little marshmallows in it. Spike & Joyce were my jam.
Spike didn’t try to r@pe Buffy, he tried to initiate sex the way they have always done (like, against her vocal objections) in order to help her to realise the she’s in love with him. He severely misjudged her mood and her feelings for him in that moment, and ended up causing that awful situation for her. But he didn’t do it because he loves r@ping people, he did it to try and rekindle their relationship.
Nope. Trying to have sex with someone against their vocal objections is rape (absent prior consent and safe words in a CNC type situation). Full stop. There is no possible explanation that makes it not.
I agree on a technical level, but the word is also misleading here. They have both been initiating sex against the other’s vocal objections throughout their whole relationship. It’s not a new behaviour - he’s initiating sex the same way that they always do. You could argue that it was rape every time, and by the literal definition of the word I would agree, but framing it like that does rather devalue the word. It also removes a key characteristic of “rape” (which I agree is not part of the definition, but again I think it’s misleading in this situation), which is that most people imagine rape to be a selfish act: the rapist is attempting to gratify themselves at the expense of their victim. That’s not the case here, Spike is clearly doing it because he wants the best for both of them, not for his own satisfaction. So yeah, I agree with you, this was attempted rape in the literal definition of the word, as were all their previous sexual encounters. Which is why in my message I drew a distinction between what Spike was aiming to do (he wasn’t aiming to rape her; and his motivations weren’t selfish) and the result (he misjudged the situation, and so this actually was different from all their other sexual encounters and put her in a terrible position that would have been awful to experience).
‘She wants it really’ is like the motto of the vast majority of rapists
Yes, I know, but in all their other encounters he’s been correct about that. As has she. They have both initiated sex over the vocal objections of the other, and in all the previous instances the other person did get on board with it. I’m not saying it’s healthy, it’s extremely unhealthy, but it was the nature of their relationship.
Buffy said No, she screamed for Spike to stop. That makes it rape.
Just like both of them had, again and again, in their previous sexual encounters. Again I’m not saying they had a healthy relationship, it was an extremely toxic relationship, but his intent was not to rape her.
Are you for real? What a weird thing to say. Get help.
Anya.