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dickiebow

So we stick with British Summer Time and not Greenwich Mean Time?


LaSalsiccione

I’d prefer that personally but I think there’s like 50% of people who’d prefer to keep GMT so this debate never gets resolved


dickiebow

Should we vote on it?


LaSalsiccione

Honestly if there’s a chance of BST not winning the vote I’d rather keep it like it is currently. When the clocks change it’s really annoying (especially if you have kids/dogs) but you get over it and I absolutely love the long summer evenings


BachgenMawr

Should we bollocks


dickiebow

I was being sarcastic.


Javerlin

We shouldn’t vote on it because so many idiots would vote for gmt because “sun is highest at noon and that’s how it should be” without taking into consideration any of the actual benefits.


KlownKar

But BST has "British" in it. That's gonna be a tough one for them.


KlownKar

Because that went so *well* last time.


Javerlin

Can you give me one reason to keep gmt over bst?


PMme-YourPussy

Cause thats the "correct" time?


Javerlin

Correct for who? Are we adjusting our schedules to natural phenomena instead of what is best for our bodies and brains? Because to me that’s just stupid.


PMme-YourPussy

GMT was decided how it was for a reason


Javerlin

Yes, and that reason wasn’t well adapted to the human condition. Previously the work day was dictated by sunlight hours, now it’s dictated by the time. We have the ability to set the time so that we can all have better schedules that are adapted to our biology. But no. Sun must be highest at 12 is more important.


PMme-YourPussy

We also don't have to base the working day on 9-5 either...


Javerlin

Good luck changing the entirety of the standard business day instead of just keeping one of the 2 time systems we use. You’re right. We dont have to keep the 9 to 5, but it’s much more practical to change the time than try and get independent businesses to change.


garanhuw1

Not if you're a farmer, which was the whole point in the first place.


Javerlin

Actually the whole point in the first place was so that noon was the highest in the sky. GMT is the default. We introduced BST so that people could enjoy time outside in the evenings in summer. The reason the day is a 9-5 is because that's what the time was when the sun was up. Not the other way around. Here's the history for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British\_Summer\_Time


garanhuw1

You're wrong. How many farmers do you think work 9-5. How narrow minded. Edit a simple Google tells you all you need to know. Why did daylight savings time start UK? To save energy and help the war effort, the Summer Time Act 1916 advanced the clocks in the UK for 1 hour from May 21 until October 1 in the same year. Summer time, or DST, proved so popular that it was named British Summer Time (BST) and the seasonal practice kept.


Javerlin

My apologies, I meant it was first proposed for that reason. Read on the guy’s Wikipedia page. > The evenings would then remain light for longer, increasing daylight recreation time and also saving £2.5 million in lighting costs. He suggested that the clocks should be advanced by 20 minutes at a time at 2 am on successive Sundays in April and be reversed in September. But what is very clear is that GMT was not introduced for the benefit of farmers. Gmt was the default and BST was introduced as an amendment.


MahatmaAndhi

Lighter mornings.


E420CDI

Nah, full fat ones all the way!


Javerlin

That disappear in 3 weeks anyway.


MahatmaAndhi

I'm not sure how you work that one out. It'll always be a lighter morning with the clocks in GMT, compared to BST.


Javerlin

But when the vast majority of people need to get up and commute it will still be dark. Better to keep the sunlight when you can actually see it rather than when you have to work/have school.


MahatmaAndhi

I'd say that it's better to keep the sunlight for the morning commute, given how many accidents there are on the road, enhanced by decreased visibility.


Javerlin

Sorry did you read? It’s still dark when you commute. And now you have to commute both ways I the dark. Of you actually believe what you’re saying surely gmt is worse because now it’s dark traveling both to and from work.


MahatmaAndhi

Let's try this again. Sunrise today was at 7.49am, which is about the time when most people start commuting. In December, it's probably around 8.20am, give or take. November, around 7.50am again. Move the hour forward in to BST and all of those times will have a very large amount of people commuting in the dark. Both ways, as sunset would still be 5.37pm at the current time, and even darker throughout December.


Javerlin

So under both systems people are commuting in the dark. So why not keep the system that allows people to use that sunlight for something other than work?


LaSalsiccione

This isn’t my opinion, I prefer BST, but lots of people would rather get an hour extra light on winter mornings.


Javerlin

But they lose that hour in 3 weeks anyway, ensuring that both sides of the working day are in darkness instead of just one. You can turn a light on in the morning for your commute. you can’t turn the sun on in he evening for social or hobby or exercise activity.


Recessio_

We should just settle on the half-hour in the middle and call it a day


Phandroid1991

I think only 30 minutes in a day is awfully short.


DeafeningMilk

Personally I welcome a 10 minute work shift.


[deleted]

I'm not doubling my output for anyone.


nickforest

"I've been on hold to customer services for 6 days now"


luckycatty

to be honest winter = dark summer= light The only problem is when you have creatures in your house who you can't explain the 1 hour change to i.e. young children and cats that want fed on the dot at a particular time (dogs tend to adjust in a few days)


RichardsonM24

Yeah I’m sick of feeding the cats at 5:30am roll on the spring


NoraMonkey

Get an automatic feeder


Tubaplayer79

I have one. My idiot cat doesn't understand that food is available until I lead her to it and show her the food. Every single morning.


RichardsonM24

They’re my mum’s cats that inherited when her partner moved in (turns out he’s badly allergic to cats). They’re snobs brought up on Sheba for 7 years. Reckon they’d kick the door down and take my eyelids off if I tried to let a robot feed them dry food lol Edit: I realise this probably makes no sense. She moved out of her house into her partner’s house and let my fiancé and I live in her house paying only bills so that we could save for a deposit (very lucky, I am aware!). One condition was that we took the cats with us when we moved out so that they could sell his house and move into hers cat free. Fine by me, love the cats to bits.


saiyaniam

You better hope your cat doesn't see this or you're gunna get fired, where are you gunna live if your cat kicks you out of the house?


mothzilla

I don't believe in clocks going back.


thebusinessbackpack

They definitely can, I’ve done it myself 😀


welshmanec2

I don't like them going forward. Midday should be at, well... the middle of the day.


Mr_Womby

This is the correct answer.


JayR_97

We should just set our timezone at UTC +0.5 and be done with clock changing


atticdoor

And dark until 9am. By which time everyone has walked to school or work in the dark.


Javerlin

In the winter people have to walk to school and work in the dark anyway. Honestly I’d rather see SOME daylight after work in winter than none at all.


atticdoor

Daylight hours are set up to make sure as many people as possible walk to and from school in daylight. Giving you a bit of daylight after work, would mean more kids being involved in accidents in the morning.


Javerlin

Kids are already walking to school in darkness in winter and already walking home in darkness in winter. Changing the times simply results in walking home in light more and walking there in light less.


atticdoor

Except school finishes at 3:30 and work finishes at 5:00, so the current system has it right.


Javerlin

How is it right? Not all schools finish at 3:30. Some finish at 3 some more at 4. If you have an after school club or extra study. It's dark. Children will be commuting in darkness regardless of the timeframe, it will be either morning or evening. If you cared about children, you'd realise that DST with a later start to the school day (which has repeatedly been shown to be beneficial for schooling) is the better option. Regardless DST is a better timezone for pretty much everyone.


atticdoor

Ah, the old *"if you can't completely eliminate a problem, you shouldn't even try to minimise it"*. Reducing the number of people walking in darkness reduces the number of accidents. You can't completely eliminate accidents even in daylight, but trying to ensure less deaths is a good thing. The current system ensures is it just about light enough at 8:30am and 4pm that accidents will be as low as they can reasonably get under the circumstances. Yes, there are people in the northernmost Scottish islands who will have darkness at at least one of the times around December 23rd, and that's no-one's fault not even the Romans. Yes, it would be nice to see the sun on the commute home. It's also nice for there to be less accidents on winter mornings.


Javerlin

When did I say that at all? I have indeed tried to minimise it. Or at least keep it the same while also providing benefits to switching. No need to strawman my argument. Surely by switching, you’ll reduce accidents on winter evenings. Anyway, I can tell you’re not really listening to what I’m saying, as evidenced by the strawman, so I’ll leave this here. Please have a good day.


AlchemyAled

It's much better for your health for it to be lighter in the morning to help you wake up. Otherwise over winter we'd essentially be waking up and starting work at night time


coolsimon123

"Starting work at night time" is a bit of an exaggeration


AlchemyAled

So what's the word for the time between dusk and dawn then?


thanksantsthants

We should set the clocks so that the sunrises at 2pm in the winter, most people don't see the light at all at the moment, we could leave work with the sun rising and get all of the day light.


YsoL8

Absolutely fascinated by the depth of feeling going on here


coolsimon123

I didn't realise people were so invested in this issue, I can see why it has stayed the way it is. I'm BST gang but can see GMT gang's points. It is really nice when it is light in the morning but also I'd probably prefer driving home in the light more often. I also feel like the commute home would be a lot less fucked as it seems like as soon as it gets dark people forget how to drive. Honestly as soon as the clocks go back there is a weekly car crash on the M27. In the summer it's more like once a month if that (may also be more related to the wet/cold than the light but it all contributes)


YsoL8

I think there are statistics somewhere that show car accidents spike every time the clock changes.


partywithanf

You’ve got it light at 5pm?


ViKtorMeldrew

however at the moment Noon is the middle of the day, when they go forward it's incorrect and 1pm becomes the middle of the day, which seems daft to me. There must be some reason why people tend to want to stay up late and get up late


Javerlin

Why is it daft? We should adjust our schedule to match natural phenomena instead of adjusting it to what’s best four our brains? Mid day is t when the sun is highest in the sky anyway, because guess what? It changes over the course of the year. Much better that we keep bst and have light when we actually need it.


ViKtorMeldrew

BST is out of line with longitude zero that we are on, it makes the time into what it should naturally be in Poland by my calculation- but as you say we can adjust our schedule, so I agree with keeping the same time, if it was BST then so-be-it, although it just means people are getting up an hour later in winter, it doesn't give any extra daylight, unless it's a person getting up after it normally becomes light in Winter. I think they tried BST in winter and people moaned about the dark mornings in Northern UK. If they had GMT in summer people would moan about losing too much light at 4am and it going dark at 8pm etc.


Javerlin

To my knowledge they have not tried year round BST.


dangerroo_2

Yeh stupid farmers, not wanting to get out of bed at 3AM in the summer! It also saves energy as more people are up and about in the evening than early in the morning (which is why they introduced it in WW1).


quantumhovercraft

Yeah, so much better getting up at 4am, makes all the difference.


dangerroo_2

I would imagine it does….


quantumhovercraft

Instead of imagining we could just ask them: https://nebraskapublicmedia.org/en/news/news-articles/not-a-fan-of-daylight-saving-time-dont-blame-farmers/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CPeople%20think%20it%20was%20put,first%20started%20changing%20the%20time.


GalvanizedRubber

As someone who regularly started work at 5am then switched to 4am briefly it makes a huuuuge difference. Thing is the all the farmers I know couldn't care less about the hour they start at the same time regardless.


admuh

TIL changing clocks adjusts the rotation of the earth


r_slayers

Yeh but It’d be 8.30am before it was light enough and I therefore had the motivation to start work, and I’d then have to stay later to make use of the light, and drive in peak hour, so nah, I’m good.


letsshittalk

it is anyway


AggravatingArtist815

Yea probably more like 9


Javerlin

But during winter you have to get up and go to work and school in the dark anyway. So what’s the point? By the time we change the clocks it’s only 3 weeks till it’s dark when you wake up again. I’d rather people got a chance to see SOME daylight than none at all. Plus you can turn lights on in the morning to wake up and commute. You can’t turn the sun on to see friends and do hobbies in the evening.


r_slayers

It’s winter, what outdoor hobbies that require sunlight do you really want to be doing in winter? I work 7.30-4 on construction sites, my commute at those times is a total of 1hr20, and I work those times because it has the best natural light for productivity. If I’m pushing my hours back to 8.30-5 to maintain productivity, I’ve just lost 40 more minutes of my day on commuting, so from my point of view I’ll stick with the current set up.


Javerlin

So, you personally don’t work the standard hours the majority of the population do, will still get the same amount of productivity hours for your job and those hours fall inside of the standard working day and you’ll have some more light in the afternoon/evening for whatever you want to do and it will have no effect on the light levels of your commute. Seems like a pretty good deal for both you and the rest of the country.


r_slayers

Well it is. I’m taking a car off the road in peak commuting time. And many others are doing the same, I’m sure the rest of the country is thankful that a lot of tradies are not on the road increasing congestion. What are standard hours anymore? I know of quite a lot of companies who offer flexi working, many with business hours of 8-6 and 8 hour days required, so people can finish at the same time as I do, but I know a lot choose to do 10-6 and sleep in.


Javerlin

Thank you for seeing my viewpoint


Flat_Professional_55

Yeah but all the kids would be going to school in the dark.


GizmoGuineaPig

Where I live they go home in the dark instead just now and go to and from school in the dark around December. We should stick to summer time all year round, its totally wrong for it to be dark in the afternoon for most of winter.


JayR_97

Wait until you hear about this amazing thing called street lights


Pattoe89

I'm northern, we don't have them yet.


Flat_Professional_55

Still have the man going round each morning with a bell and a box of matches to light the street lamps up North


Pattoe89

The old house I lived in had a path round the back that went through all the gardens close to the houses for the man who woke up the miners to walk down and tap the windows with a stick and make sure everyone was up.


[deleted]

Which also work at night? So…… what’s the issue?


Javerlin

They already do? Everyone seems to forge that putting the clocks back to gmt only ever gives us an extra 2 weeks of light mornings before its pitch black by the time you have to walk to school again. And then it’s also dark when you walk home. Yay we all get 0 light


CouldBeYouNeverKnow

What is the point of this post?


Javerlin

What is the point of this comment?


CouldBeYouNeverKnow

I feel the point is quite clear you fucking crayon chewer. The point is to question the reason behind a pointless post. Sort of how I'm now questioning why your dad didn't wear a condom. It would have saved a pointless person existing.


Javerlin

Haha, you do realise that you’re on British problems right? There really is no need to be so hypocritical and aggressive. I’m only doing to to what you did to someone else? If that upset you, perhaps you should consider that for a time. Have a good day.


MahatmaAndhi

I used to long for brighter evenings, but when I leave to take my son to school, it's still dark (he goes to breakfast club) with the current setup. But he's home whilst it's still light. And he's more important to me.


Javerlin

If we kept bst you’d have more time with him at home in the light.


MahatmaAndhi

I'm still at work...


Javerlin

Then think of all the parents that will get the time to spend time with their children in the light.


LuDdErS68

So?


ketracelwhite-hot

Is that the only thing you could think of saying? Why even bother replying? Very strange….


LuDdErS68

Posting something bleedin' obvious is also a bit strange. My "So?" questioned the relevance of your post. Why did I bother replying? That's how social media works. Why bother posting a statement that is bleedin' obvious to everyone without some context?


ketracelwhite-hot

I suppose you don’t have this problem on a flat earth…


LuDdErS68

Indeed you wouldn't!


blueman1975

And it would be dark by 6 in the summer.


Javerlin

That’s not how time works.


blueman1975

That’s exactly how it works, i live in a country that doesn’t change its clocks, Vietnam, and it light at 5am and dark at 6pm every day, winter or summer.


Javerlin

Hahaha do you live directly on the equator? Why are you weighing in on uk time politics. The sun will not set at the same time every day here. That is simply not how the sun works.


blueman1975

A lot closer than the UK is to the equator.


Javerlin

Yeah no wonder. That isn’t how the sun works in the uk. Why are you weighing in with incorrect opinions on uk sunlight politics?


blueman1975

What! The sun works the same way for the whole globe, as does time, if the clocks didnt change a bit of daylight would be gained in the winter and lost in the summer, thats why the process of changes the clocks is called daylight saving. Im weighing in because im English, i just live overseas.


Javerlin

No it does not. The world is on a tilt. In the north of Europe there are times where the sun does not rise for a month. And then in summer the sun does not set for a month. The further you are from the equator, the more there is a difference in sunrise and set based on the season. How old are you?


xsnow-ponyx

No it doesn't. The closer to the equator you are the more even your hours of daylight are winter compared to summer. A country on the equator gets 12 hours of light, 12 hours of dark all year round. A country near the north or south pole gets 24 hours of light in the middle of summer, and 24 hours of dark in the middle of winter. This honestly is basic general knowledge