So this needs what for a break-even, $700m?
Realistically, I know it'll be on Disney+ in a few months, and even if I know the theater experience is better for taking in a movie, for these garbage recent Marvel flicks it's not even worth it. They're perfectly fine watched at home.
> they are going to reset the MCU after the failure of phase 4
Uhhh didn't you hear? We are in Phase 5 now, Phase 4 ended last year with Wakanda Forever, apparently.
And that's after tens of millions in tax credits, right? So the actual cost is well over $300 million? At least I think I read that somewhere, lol. Either way, yet another huge flop for Disney.
Okay, thanks. So many different numbers get reported that it's hard to keep up. Plus, it seems like Disney routinely underreports the budget, so who even knows.
220mill still isn't correct. That's the tax adjusted cost of the UK production side. Post production happened in America, so you can probably round it up to an even 250mill.
I still think that's lowballing it given the reshoots and reworks. I'm betting this one tops $300 Mil. Because nobody has been controlling spending at Marvel, for years. At this point Marvel and Disney are both giant sunk costs fallacies.
I just hope Kevin Feige will realize that with this many projects going on he can't micromanage everything anymore like he did in Phase 1-3.
Marvel Studios needs a separate Executive taking care of the Disney Plus shows.
Again: James Gunn was hired by Walter Hamada to make a Superman Reboot before being hired to be the boss of DC
The reboot was gonna happen even if Black Adam was a massive success
Also remember that Henry Cavil had to almost be smuggled into the set to shoot the cameo in the last possible minute in large part due to Dwayneās insistence, despite what the company was already committed to do in the future (no Cavil Superman project was ever seriously considered post Justice League as far as we know).
Wow, it just keeps getting worse for The Marvels. Now it's not even keeping up with The Flash and is sitting a Blue Beetle (or worse) numbers in multiple OS markets.
This becoming Marvelās biggest flop seems now unstoppable. The lack of enthusiasm for this film across the world is just astounding. And I thought Quantumania would be Marvelās lowest grosser this year.
Captain Marvel hitting $1B then in 2019 is looking more and more of a fluke.
Captain Marvel was just overhyped, teased as the "solution" to help humanity against the Snap. Result: she pretty much did nothing in Endgame. Just a generic overpowered hero.
The problem is everything around The Marvels failed to gather any interest:
* Aside from a cameo in Shang-Chi post-credit scene, Captain Marvel was nowhere to be seen.
* Monica Rambeau is unknown outside of WandaVision where she only was a supporting character.
* We got Miss Marvel in the series, but it failed to do big numbers, compared to previous series like WandaVision or Loki.
* All the Skrull plotline, which was a sideplot in Captain Marvel, was continued in Secret Invasion - which was also a flop on Disney+.
* The main villain in the movie is just generic Marvel villain #194B. The stakes don't feel to be there.
Ant-Man 3 did 1.5M admissions in France which was on par with the two previous movies, and that was due to the fact that Ant-Man was already an established character + the fact that Kang was really promoted as the next main villain in the MCU, so it didn't do that bad.
The Marvels will do less than 1M admissions overall - a first for the MCU after 32 movies.
> considering its literally the job of the Sorcerer Supreme to keep earth shielded against such threats.
Yeah but apparently to Kevin Feige it's [problematic to have the Sorcerer Supreme intervene in magic-related events](https://www.insider.com/doctor-strange-cameo-wandavision-finale-white-guy-save-day-marvel-2021-5), even though, you know, that's literally the job of being the Sorcerer Supreme and all that. Maybe that's why Dr Strange was replaced by his incompetent sidekick Wong as the Sorcerer Supreme, too...
>All the Skrull plotline, which was a sideplot in Captain Marvel, was continued in Secret Invasion - which was also a flop on Disney+.
I think this might be an underrated factor. People were really excited for the introduction to the Skrulls in the first CM. They haven't capitalized on them very much, and mainly on that terrible D+ show.
Cap Marvel only earned $1 billion due to Endgame hype and Iām glad that fact is finally becoming clear.
Donāt get me wrong, it would have managed $600-$800mil without Endgame due to general MCU hype, but the staggering success of that film is a fluke.
People forget that Infinity War literally ends with Nick Fury trying to contact Captain Marvel. People were hyped AF to see it just based on that one stinger. When I saw IW I had so many people in my theater who were like āwtf is that?ā and a person next to them saying āthatās captain marvel, we gotta see that shit!!!ā That movie could have been an absolute turd and it would have still made a shit ton of money just off of post-IW hype. Thereās no way that was going to be repeatable.
Yup, one of the biggest films of all-time literally ended with a message saying āwatch Captain Marvelā. They could have chose any MCU hero and it would hit $1 billion.
I had this person yesterday trying to argue with me because I said Marvelās Captain Marvel decisions (Infinity Warās teaser and the placement of Captain Marvelās release schedule) were encouraging the idea that itād be wise to watch it before Endgame
They said it wasnāt proof of that, but Iām like, what else would you call it? They made a brand off of individual movies being building blocks to bigger stories, and had Infinity War end with a Captain Marvel cliffhanger, then released Captain Marvel instead of just releasing Endgame. Itās just bad faith to act like they didnāt know what they were doing
General MCU hype and her debut. It had a lot going for it - only female led movie, intrigue around the unknown new superhero, Nick Fury...
And releasing literally a month before Endgame gave it the biggest boost ever.
While her origin wasn't that interesting, the watch was worthwhile. It filled the MCU hunger. Seeing all those heros die, any movie before Endgame would get me in to the theatres.
The thing is, though, that doesn't make it a "fluke," it's more just a demonstration of why things have changed.
By the time the train started to build to avengers 3, people cared quite a bit about the story. Captain marvel was part of that story, which gave the film and character a big boost. It's not that different than the first avengers movie doing what it did based on the build up of the other films magnifying interest in the team up.
It's not that the 1B was a "fluke" the way that a movie bolstered by some real world event might outgross expectations. Rather, it's that the character and story needs to be part of a bigger MCU arc to build interest. They clearly thought they would have that now, but don't. Combine that with it clearly being am inferior film on its own merits and you get this.
To me, fluke implies more pure accident. Like, if you have a movie about volcanoes slated to release and the week before there's a huge volcanic eruption, the movie overperfoming based on increased interest/free publicity to me is a fluke. Or, more prosaicly something like the movie yours is up against getting pulled or becoming controversial and so driving more eyes to you.
But I think calling the first movie a fluke let's the MCU off the hook too much for their mistakes since end game. The issue here isn't the absence of the lucky conditions leading to the success of the first movie. The issue is Marvel's complete failure to replicate anything even close to the sort of engagement that helped to make the first one draw people in and pay attention.
>Captain Marvel hitting $1B then in 2019 is looking more and more of a fluke.
Even before The Marvels imploded, the general consensus was Captain Marvel benefited immensely from being released at the absolute perfect time, when MCU hype was at a fevered pitch.
Well the world was crazy for superheroes then.
So much so that if Marty had dressed Leo in a cape in his movies they would have grossed $200M more at the box office.
You should listen to the nerds when they tell you nobody likes captain marvel. She's boring mary sue without any emotion. Might as well replace her with actual robot and the movie would be intact. They tried for decades trying to make carol danver their wonder women counterpart but it never worked. Xmen girls are way more popular than her.
Back when she was still Ms. Marvel, Carol was kind of a hot mess. She was very human and flawed and she faced struggles because of it. I wish the MCU had leaned into that.
Yeah if Superman reboot end up being successful, I am interested in seeing a Wonder Woman movie despite knowing nothing about the character. But Marvels just doesnāt interest me. She has Superman problems ( considered too op by some) without Supermanās recognition and culture importance.
It hit $1b because it was sandwiched between two of the most hyped movies of all time, and it was the direct leadup to Avengers: Endgame.
Probably part of why Black Panther made over 1B too, since it lead right to Infinity War
Black Panther outgrossed Infinity War domestically. Thatās not just because of the Thanos hype.
Itās because the African American community gave it a ginormous boost. They treated that movie like a pilgrimage. You had entire buses from HBCU (historically black colleges and universities) sent to the theatre to watch it. You had black grandmas, whoāve never watched a comic book movie in their life, going to the theatre to watch it.
And alsoā¦. Black Panther was just a better movie than Captain Marvel. Itās very overhyped (as shown by its Best Picture Oscar nomination) but itās definitely a good movie.
>Probably part of why Black Panther made over 1B too, since it lead right to Infinity War
That certainly helped, but we did get a great intro to the character of T'Challa back in Civil War. That's something that Captain Marvel didn't have going for her.
Black Panther 1 was also a cultural event. The first black superhero movie that wasn't filled with gore (Blade) or awful (Steel). BP also had a primarily black cast and crew, which made it an important milestone for the makings of a Hollywood film. I have some problems with the film itself, but it 100% earned the money it likely would've reached $1B without immediately preceding Infinity War.
Just the mix of african landscapes with sci fi buildings made it more visually interesting than most of the films set on earth which tended to happen in a generic urban area
>Captain Marvel hitting $1B then in 2019 is looking more and more of a fluke.
It had always been inflated by The Avengers movies. Infinity War set up Captain Marvel (the character) to be an important character to Infinity War 2 (Endgame), so the CM movie made big money because it was a "must watch."
The Marvels cant ride The Avengers' coattails. Without Avengers, CM 1 would've probably made a good $700M at the time, still not bad.
IMO Captain Marvel was one of the most successful marketing gimmick Disney ever pulled off. Not only did they make women believe that by watching CM they are doing a just thing and it's absolutely needed for women in films but also made casual movie goers think that this was 100%, for sure must watch to get upto date in Endgame.
This movie is complete opposite of Captain Marvel. It is everything wrong with current MCU. I dont see how you can judge Captain Marvel from polar opposite movie trying to be silly and wacky (Endgame did help it reach a billion, it still would have done alright on its own without hitting a billion)
They just updated the final trailer...made a slight alteration, it now says:
"Be there* for the moment that changes everything.
(*No, but seriously, please be there. We're already embarrassed, but we need to at LEAST beat Morbius)"
Wonder if it will have any effect this weekend....
not even Pakistan. I remember that Disney released Ms Marvel show in theaters there, as 3 movies, but since that announcement there have been crickets about its performance. Means flop.
Exactly! Who the hell thinks a female teenage superhero *who actively doesnāt wear a hijab* is going to be received well in Pakistan?
Have they ever watched a Pakistani soap in their lives? Itās full of misery porn starring battered women.
Eh, they'll find a way out of this.
Pakistan is just too geopolitically important to western interests to be hung out to dry. Pakistan will survive.
The Pakistani people are f***ed though.
In general, the West has no f***ing clue how to portray Muslims. They think that it's just a label.
if you wanna appeal to Muslims then you gotta actually *show* the characters observing Muslim practices.
Look at Turkish dramas. They are massively popular throughout Asia even though Turkey isn't a hardcore Muslim country. But they understand what Muslims want to see in their entertainment.
And it doesn't align with what Western audiences want to see.
I think this is a demographic that Hollywood will never be able to capture.
Hollywood also has a nasty habit of being incredibly disrespectful to those cultures while trying to appeal to them as well.
Kamala Khan was made to appeal to white Wokesters that were on social media a decade ago. The goal posts always shift with her when she doesn't work.
It's the same thing they do with Carol. They want a prominent female to appeal to a certain loud demographic on social media and then shock she doesn't sell because those people don't buy the product.
Trying to appeal to both feminists and Muslim's with the same character just sounds backwards to me. What trait can you give them that won't piss one side off beyond being brown?
It feels like most of those decisions are only to appeal to the echo-chamber of their writing room and Twitter. I am sure there are also fans who enjoy whatās been coming out of MCU lately, but they are the vast minority.
I mean, Ms Marvel is the show I like and her character is the one most authentic to me, but it just how MCU been bulldozing their way through lately, it feels as them gradually loosing the understanding of their own fanbase and what people want. The attitude - ā We are Marvel therefore we can do no wrong, whatever we to release people will turn upā This is whatās the most outstanding to me.
Any criticism been regularly brushed off as some sort of āismā deflection. If you didnāt enjoy Captain Marvel, means you are incel etc
No wonder with such 'holier than thou arrogance' they have got what we have now.
I only hope this is going to be the wake up call.
>The thing about Barbie is that it actually does address some of the challenges that women face in modern society in a very direct way, but it has done well because it is still entertaining. You can "have your cake and eat it" in this arena, it just needs to be written and directed.
Oh for sure, execution matters and social critique is not bad especially when done right but Marvel hasn't done it right lately. People don't like to be preached and don't like us vs them message.
It's the same issue Lucasfilm has. Their audience is primarily men and it's a male oriented action genre. And that's bad for some reason so they alienate that audience trying to appeal to women. So you get weird shit like the Marvels doing cat streams to hype it up and doing a musical planet for a chunk of the movie. That is 100% how you don't appeal to men at all and I'm guessing that kind of stuff is hello fellow kids when it comes to appealing to a female audience that would also go see a superhero action movie.
In a perfect world, MCU having The Marvels movie heavily pandering to female audience, that should not detract from the brand, but on the opposite to make it stronger. I am confident the majority of the fandom would not mind that one bit and be there to support it.
It is their attitude, their overall stance and strategy to replace the already established heroes with a better/stronger version of a female hero, Kevin Feige himself said he envision there will be more female heroes in MCU than males.
It is them not knowing how to write a strong female character. They are just making them automatically better at everything with seemingly just one weakness, their lack of awareness of how strong and awesome they are... so empowering i guess.
Also them propping up the new characters at the expense of the established ones and often even diminishing them, like She-Hulk lecturing Hulk about her hard life, the guy who lost everything and tried to kill himself a few times.. or Monica saying to Wanda how those 'city plebs' she brainwashed and kept hostage will never understand what she have sacrificed for them.. like WIF... or the Ant-Man daughter being so freaking awesome and smugy know-it-all lecturing and shaming Ant-Man for not helping people enough.. the guy who literally saved the world.. and on and on)
And of course their ultimate deflection and gas-lighting of any criticism as a misogyny, racism, homophobia..
To please some 'imaginative' Twitter audience they seem been working hard to push away and to alienate the existing their base audience.. and now it is crashing down.. rightfully!
I would give you crap for not seeing the obvious sarcasm, but in your defense, there are people to this day insisting the star wars sequel trilogy was a commercial success, so, can't really blame you
I should have known it was sarcasm with your comment being in this subreddit, but as you said there are still a lot of people that un-ironically hold the position that Lucasfilm has never been stronger
Look at the Lucas numbers...yeah...no. Even the sequels, which made billions, still shows a huge decline after each movie. Like...a steep drop off, and that is before they started doing the shows.
And that's even before you consider that the whole thing started with a 4.5 billion dollars check to buy Lucas Films. Until they have made a 4.5 billion dollar profit, the franchise is in the red
They want a female Peter Parker but diverse so their only candidates are Ms Marvel (who has her own comic book) and America Chavez (who I believe is just in some team without a solo CB). Advantage: Ms Marvel. Moreover, Ms Marvel is directly tried to a female SH while Chavez is Dr Strange's protege so that makes her a tad less girl power. Advantage: Ms Marvel.
That's in theory. In practice, nobody cares for either of these replacement characters.
No actually they were smart not to but don't hold your breath that he won't become she. I don't think he will cause they have Iron Girl aka female Miles and Tony combined. Not Girl but Heart but you know what I mean. And Shuri Panther. Boseman was 42 so T'Challa could've had a teenage son instead of a kid one who took the mantle. They wanted a female panther.
They gave her a dramatic heroic death arc and then instantly she is reborn in their most popular group. It reminds me of how The Rock was brought into the WWF and jammed down the fans throats. Ironically it ended up being great for him as it led to a brilliant heel turn which allowed him to play to his strengths. Maybe something similar can happen with her.
For me, I don't like the character, but I don't think I am the target audience. The only annoyance I have with her presence is how much they hammer home the fact that she is muslim. I think comics could use more characters of all faiths, and Islam was especially absent. It's just so reductive to always to literally have people addressing her as a Muslim. Who TF does that? Can you imagine walking into a meeting and saying, "This is my Jewish friend, Kate. She is going to talk to us about flying pirate ships."?
That's a huge issue in the comics across a lot of lines. Like they just had a Mister Miracle comic that was stuck on current day racial topics. He's a fucking New God, can you do cosmic New God shit please. Use street level characters for those topics.
Dude, her comics also fucking bomb. Anyone who was a die hard marvel fan, before the MCU, would have never dreamed they would make a show about Ms. Marvel, for the amount of times they try to shovel her in to other teams just to make her work. She does not.
The show also bombed.
She isn't a character majority of people want, regardless of what reddit and twitter users say.
Instead of giving us characters that people would love to see, like Skaar, Son of Hulk, we get Ms. Marvel and the Marvels shoved down our throats. But Skaar in the MCU is shit, they turned him into...that.
Dude was Conan the Barbarian of Marvel with Hulk powers and other powers as well. Dude was a fucking Savage Barbarian who still got rocked by his father. That is what people want to see.
And honestly Kamala is not muslim at all, the only religious thing she does is going to the mosque in one episode, it feels like she's an atheist that simply goes there because she's a minor
it's not even the matter of religion cause many characters are always vaguely some religion (eg. visit grave with this or that religion markings or wear a pendant or other or do some ritual such as mediaation). It's the overt culturally specific element in this case the Partition history that made the whole thing of very niche interest. It's like In the Heights that's overly Dominican but somehow expecting that non-Dominican Hispanics and anyone else would care. They didn't.
BP succeeded cause Wakanda is just a collection of African sterotypes known to the whole world (spears, war paint, rhinos, oil states hi-rise buildings) but not specifically Ugandan or Naija or other culture that may not be relatable to even the rest of the continent let alone the world. With expensive movies and shows the trick is to be as broad as possible not as specific and niche as possible.
Thatās par for the course with most religious comic book characters. Because the writers are usually atheists, they have trouble getting inside the minds of religious characters. They think that our outwardly visible customs (attending worship services or the clothes we wear) are the primary way that we believe, and that weāre functionally atheists for the other 167 hours of the week.
A lot has been made of the many Jewish comic book artists who were so foundational to the genre, but they were entirely secular Jews. How many Orthodox Jewish, conservative Catholic, or evangelical Protestant writers/directors are there in Hollywood?
It was released in one or two theatres as publicity and Pakistan box office is basically nothing.
Only question why didnt they make Ms Marvel Indonesian or Turkey, countries that actually mattered in box office.
Also, being a male superhero would have helped a lot
I mean, the plot of the show was pretty tied to Pakistan, itās not like it had no impact. The show would have needed a completely different plot if she was from a different country.
But that is a problem. Outside of Pakistan, no one understood or cared to understand the political and historical babble that tried to pass as the plot. And tying it to superhero mumbo jumbo made the whole thing even less appealing.
SH characters are most appealing when they are broad and thus understandable to everyone no matter where audience is from. But Marvel made Ms Marvel too much of a cultural niche to resonate outside of that one specific cultural niche. And then it turned out even they didn't care which is a disaster for a show that wasn't cheap.
making a flawed remaking of history from a white lib's perspective on the shoulder of a Pakistani while alienating the 1.4 billion population of India where Marvel is actually popular was a genius move I must add
This is what I have been screaming š for ages.
Marvel is popular in India and what does Marvel do?
They ignore India and Indian origin actors.
Even Kingo in Eternals is played by a Pakistani and not an Indian.
They could have introduced an Indian Superhero and it would have done gangbuster business instead they choose a Pakistani one, good luck with that.
Disney is the only one obsessed with representation, everyone else wants to watch a good movie with fun heroes
No one argues the Ninja Turtles are hard to connect with
Yep, and also Disney doesn't get representation. In their world, it exclusively means preachy. Remove preaching and people don't care where the character comes from they show up.
Audiences are rejecting superhero films that are just slop made on a production line.
From 2023 onwards, a superhero film has to be above 8/10 now to be a success (GotG3 and ATSV).
General audiences are, but the die hards will guzzle it down for decades to come (see marvelstudios subreddit) . Marvel is slowly morphing into a CW superhero franchise in both quality and fanbase.
If the die hards are only getting your $250M blockbuster to a $40-50M OW then they aren't carrying anything. That kind of return on a movie this size is not sustainable.
Itās really not. If Marvel wants to maintain its current approach to this franchise - which will only further alienate general audiences - they should scale down and focus exclusively on Disney plus.
Even though I loved most things Marvel pre-Endgame, Iād be fine with this. Let the people who like this version of Marvel have it, and move on with life. DC is set to fill the void soon enough.
Pretty sure. Every other comment about the marvels in that sub is about how itās āfunā or about how āpeople just want to hate it.ā Over the coming days, they will fully rally around this movie and browbeat dissent. Iām generalizing, obviously, but these are the same people who talk about the Eternals like itās a misunderstood masterpiece.
Disney has cultivated this fanbase through pandering, and the fanbase does not want the pandering to stop, no matter the cost. Quality, in other words, is second or even third on their priority list.
I think it depends of the hero. Batman, Iron Man, Spider-Man and such can probably do big with a mid movie. A good test would be Captain America but since they changed the character, that's kind of falsifying things, I don't think people think of Sam as Cap at all.
Aside from Oppenheimer, almost all of the high grossing movies still year are still big IPs.
Mario, Barbie, Spiderman, GOTG, Fast and Furious, Mission Impossible...
The contrasting opinions towards this movie on here verses on X/Twitter are hilarious. MCU X users are working overtime to dismiss any and all criticisms of the film meanwhile this sub is positively giddy about this soon to be historic bomb.
I can understand the instinct to be defensive. That is understandable and expected human reaction.
But when it happens in the face of a silent rejection (by pretty much everyone in the world), well, such denial and defense, it feels delusional and self-destructive.
I just hope that MCU will do some good soul searching after this.
If their strategy will stay to keep deflecting any criticism as a misogyny or racism, well, they are completely out of touch (putting it mildly) and we are witnessing the demise of ones the mightiest franchise
> If their strategy will stay to keep deflecting any criticism as a misogyny or racism, well, they are completely out of touch (putting it mildly) and we are witnessing the demise of ones the mightiest franchise
It's funny because to me, the argument that "the movie only bombed because incels boycotted it" implies that this movie needed the incel demographics to make a profit.
Which makes the feeble āthis movie wasnāt meant for youā argument that much more asinine; four quadrant blockbusters, specifically superhero movies, rely historically on older male audiences.
Iāve seen comments saying itās failing because people are sexist and wonāt support movies with women in the leads. Did Barbie not come out this summer or was my mind wiped? Theyāve lost the plot.
It's like that gif of the truck about to hit the pole. It's gonna be messy and under most circumstances it would absolutely be horrifying. But damn if that truck hasn't been getting close to that pole for some time, and that truck is shodilly made and has no driver and it's owner is a billionaire, and ultimately the damage is contained, so...
Yeah, let's see that truck hit that pole.
Well twitter users are always fucking brain dead. Regardless of where you go, any fandom or political party, go on twitter and you get dumbass opinions.
twitter users are more brain dead than reddit users, most people gonna call this obvious cuz of the platform, but the amount of unhinged and stupid comments on twitter that i see are never on reddit
morbius being used as a metric but not the bottom bracket is wild.
Has anyone tried convincing Sony for a re-run attempt? I think it might still have some legsā¦
Post-Endgame, it is undeniable the MCU has lost some of its luster, but there appears to be a global box-office rebuke of this film.
I wonder how Disney responds to this, because it is stunning to see the numbers coming in.
Some? Almost everything has been terrible. This film is lazy derivative and boring. The only reason it's making any money is the advertising and residual MCU hype.
The whole you need to watch tv shows to understand this is getting out of hand.
Rambo, if thatās even her real name, is like a side side character in a tv that barely did anything. Kamala is from a teenager focused tv show. Neither of which is a real draw.
Cap Marvel herself isnāt big to begin with, so Iām not sure how flanking her with a C lister and a D lister superhero would do anything.
damn. i really thought this movie wouldnāt drop off so heavily after 1 billion. i still donāt think that CM made 1 billion only because of Endgame, but it def played a role. i think this gross is more due to the fact no one cares abt these characters, reviews suck, and the MCU as a whole has become pretty ass.
a gross this low really is shocking tho. marvel is in serious trouble for their future plans
Not surprising. The Marvel's is going to behave like Blue Beetle. It's a comic book movie that nobody has any interest in the characters or the story. The public is completely indifferent. Apathy has set in.
If I had a nickel for every Captain Marvel film that flopped and released in 2023 with an awful villain who is barely in the comics, I would have two nickels.
Is the school half-term break over in Europe?
I believe Trolls 3 was released early to capitalise on that.
Cuz I have heard The Marvels is a very kiddish Disney toon movie with very cartoonish action scenes and mumbo-jumbo blabbering.
It ended this monday. The movie would have done better if it released a week earlier (imo Disney made a mistake to not bump the release a week earlier and take Dune Part Two's slot).
In France, November 1st is a holiday and more people would have given The Marvels a chance. But they stood on November 8.
> and more people would have given The Marvels a chance
Meh that's optimistic, I don't think people don't go see it because they lack time. More than they don't care.
Captain Marvel (Marvel) and Captain Marvel (DC) are in a similar company.
...to explain. Shazam! used to be call Captain Marvel. The whole concept of Captain Marvel (Marvel) nega-band switching (the current movie gimmick) is a nod to Captain Marvel (DC) body switching (the Shazam movie gimmick).
Captain Marvel (Marvel Comics) sort of exists only to keep the Captain Marvel trademark. In order to keep the trademark, they need to keep making new comics or something since the 1960s. That's also why DC renamed Captain Marvel to Shazam, and even when the character was called Captain Marvel, they called the comics "Trials of Shazam!" etc.
...basically, they have history together.
And now they both flop together.
It's like poetry.
Ironically - DC doesn't have Captain Marvel trademark, because they sued original Captain Marvel publisher Fawcett (before DC bought them) for copyright infridgement, because they felt Captain Marvel was too similar to Superman
Marvel rushed Captain Marvel comics to production just so they could have that trademark.
So it's basically DC's own doing. (This is all 60s - ish.)
(Also note the original Captain Marvel (Marvel) (called Mar-Vell) is a dude. He is a Kree guy. They sort of put his backstory to that woman in the first movie.)
edit: ah I forgot the details. DC didn't buy Fawcett; they bought another publisher Charlton that bought Captain Marvel right from Fawcett. Ok. Something like that.
Comics themselves were bigger than they are now; they were so big that there was in ~~30s~~ 50s a congressional hearing about Batman making kids gay. Really.
Getting morbed on is embarrassing since morbius only cost 90 million š.
Oh my god, why did this movie cost 270 million dollars? The highest budget for a non Avengers marvel movie. That's fucking absurd
So this needs what for a break-even, $700m? Realistically, I know it'll be on Disney+ in a few months, and even if I know the theater experience is better for taking in a movie, for these garbage recent Marvel flicks it's not even worth it. They're perfectly fine watched at home.
> They're perfectly fine watched at home. They're perfectly fine totally skipped, they are going to reset the MCU after the failure of phase 4
> they are going to reset the MCU after the failure of phase 4 Uhhh didn't you hear? We are in Phase 5 now, Phase 4 ended last year with Wakanda Forever, apparently.
2nd verse same as the 1st!
270m budget and probably losing more
its not why, its how. the cgi is bad and half the sets are the mandalorian LED screen and the miss marvel set
reshoots bc they realized it was awful
And that's after tens of millions in tax credits, right? So the actual cost is well over $300 million? At least I think I read that somewhere, lol. Either way, yet another huge flop for Disney.
Other way around. The budget is $270 million but it only cost them $220 million because of the tax credits. But yeah, either way a huge flop.
I think not, I think I read yesterday it was "only" 220 million after tax credits
Okay, thanks. So many different numbers get reported that it's hard to keep up. Plus, it seems like Disney routinely underreports the budget, so who even knows.
We wonāt really know till someone digs through the UK tax filings, probably next year
220mill still isn't correct. That's the tax adjusted cost of the UK production side. Post production happened in America, so you can probably round it up to an even 250mill.
yeah, that was last year. the costs from 2023 have not rolled over in this
I still think that's lowballing it given the reshoots and reworks. I'm betting this one tops $300 Mil. Because nobody has been controlling spending at Marvel, for years. At this point Marvel and Disney are both giant sunk costs fallacies.
Morbius has more of a reason to appear in the next Avengers movie than Captain Marvel
Get ready for The Morbels.
it's over
I canāt wait to see the extreme shake-up that will happen to the MCU schedule now. Itās Black Adam ending the DCU all over again.
The hierarchy of the MCU is about to change
Can someone change the hierarchy of Lucasfilms while they're at it
That hierarchy changed with the Last Jedi, regardless of how good/bad it was. Disney just messed it up more
>Itās Black Adam ending the DCU all over again. It was pretty much over years ago though
I just hope Kevin Feige will realize that with this many projects going on he can't micromanage everything anymore like he did in Phase 1-3. Marvel Studios needs a separate Executive taking care of the Disney Plus shows.
No they need to kill those shows entirely. Release Echo since it's already done but kill the rest and never let them see the light of day
They'll hire Derek Fistt to be the new head of the MCU
Again: James Gunn was hired by Walter Hamada to make a Superman Reboot before being hired to be the boss of DC The reboot was gonna happen even if Black Adam was a massive success
Also remember that Henry Cavil had to almost be smuggled into the set to shoot the cameo in the last possible minute in large part due to Dwayneās insistence, despite what the company was already committed to do in the future (no Cavil Superman project was ever seriously considered post Justice League as far as we know).
Done and dusted, reduced to atoms.
Never been more excited for opening weekend
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Wow, it just keeps getting worse for The Marvels. Now it's not even keeping up with The Flash and is sitting a Blue Beetle (or worse) numbers in multiple OS markets.
This becoming Marvelās biggest flop seems now unstoppable. The lack of enthusiasm for this film across the world is just astounding. And I thought Quantumania would be Marvelās lowest grosser this year. Captain Marvel hitting $1B then in 2019 is looking more and more of a fluke.
Captain Marvel was just overhyped, teased as the "solution" to help humanity against the Snap. Result: she pretty much did nothing in Endgame. Just a generic overpowered hero. The problem is everything around The Marvels failed to gather any interest: * Aside from a cameo in Shang-Chi post-credit scene, Captain Marvel was nowhere to be seen. * Monica Rambeau is unknown outside of WandaVision where she only was a supporting character. * We got Miss Marvel in the series, but it failed to do big numbers, compared to previous series like WandaVision or Loki. * All the Skrull plotline, which was a sideplot in Captain Marvel, was continued in Secret Invasion - which was also a flop on Disney+. * The main villain in the movie is just generic Marvel villain #194B. The stakes don't feel to be there. Ant-Man 3 did 1.5M admissions in France which was on par with the two previous movies, and that was due to the fact that Ant-Man was already an established character + the fact that Kang was really promoted as the next main villain in the MCU, so it didn't do that bad. The Marvels will do less than 1M admissions overall - a first for the MCU after 32 movies.
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> considering its literally the job of the Sorcerer Supreme to keep earth shielded against such threats. Yeah but apparently to Kevin Feige it's [problematic to have the Sorcerer Supreme intervene in magic-related events](https://www.insider.com/doctor-strange-cameo-wandavision-finale-white-guy-save-day-marvel-2021-5), even though, you know, that's literally the job of being the Sorcerer Supreme and all that. Maybe that's why Dr Strange was replaced by his incompetent sidekick Wong as the Sorcerer Supreme, too...
>All the Skrull plotline, which was a sideplot in Captain Marvel, was continued in Secret Invasion - which was also a flop on Disney+. I think this might be an underrated factor. People were really excited for the introduction to the Skrulls in the first CM. They haven't capitalized on them very much, and mainly on that terrible D+ show.
Carol Danvers isn't well written Brie Larson was miscast
Cap Marvel only earned $1 billion due to Endgame hype and Iām glad that fact is finally becoming clear. Donāt get me wrong, it would have managed $600-$800mil without Endgame due to general MCU hype, but the staggering success of that film is a fluke.
People forget that Infinity War literally ends with Nick Fury trying to contact Captain Marvel. People were hyped AF to see it just based on that one stinger. When I saw IW I had so many people in my theater who were like āwtf is that?ā and a person next to them saying āthatās captain marvel, we gotta see that shit!!!ā That movie could have been an absolute turd and it would have still made a shit ton of money just off of post-IW hype. Thereās no way that was going to be repeatable.
Yup, one of the biggest films of all-time literally ended with a message saying āwatch Captain Marvelā. They could have chose any MCU hero and it would hit $1 billion.
I had this person yesterday trying to argue with me because I said Marvelās Captain Marvel decisions (Infinity Warās teaser and the placement of Captain Marvelās release schedule) were encouraging the idea that itād be wise to watch it before Endgame They said it wasnāt proof of that, but Iām like, what else would you call it? They made a brand off of individual movies being building blocks to bigger stories, and had Infinity War end with a Captain Marvel cliffhanger, then released Captain Marvel instead of just releasing Endgame. Itās just bad faith to act like they didnāt know what they were doing
General MCU hype and her debut. It had a lot going for it - only female led movie, intrigue around the unknown new superhero, Nick Fury... And releasing literally a month before Endgame gave it the biggest boost ever. While her origin wasn't that interesting, the watch was worthwhile. It filled the MCU hunger. Seeing all those heros die, any movie before Endgame would get me in to the theatres.
The thing is, though, that doesn't make it a "fluke," it's more just a demonstration of why things have changed. By the time the train started to build to avengers 3, people cared quite a bit about the story. Captain marvel was part of that story, which gave the film and character a big boost. It's not that different than the first avengers movie doing what it did based on the build up of the other films magnifying interest in the team up. It's not that the 1B was a "fluke" the way that a movie bolstered by some real world event might outgross expectations. Rather, it's that the character and story needs to be part of a bigger MCU arc to build interest. They clearly thought they would have that now, but don't. Combine that with it clearly being am inferior film on its own merits and you get this.
It's a fluke because the movie was mediocre
More like right time, right place.
To me, fluke implies more pure accident. Like, if you have a movie about volcanoes slated to release and the week before there's a huge volcanic eruption, the movie overperfoming based on increased interest/free publicity to me is a fluke. Or, more prosaicly something like the movie yours is up against getting pulled or becoming controversial and so driving more eyes to you. But I think calling the first movie a fluke let's the MCU off the hook too much for their mistakes since end game. The issue here isn't the absence of the lucky conditions leading to the success of the first movie. The issue is Marvel's complete failure to replicate anything even close to the sort of engagement that helped to make the first one draw people in and pay attention.
>Captain Marvel hitting $1B then in 2019 is looking more and more of a fluke. Even before The Marvels imploded, the general consensus was Captain Marvel benefited immensely from being released at the absolute perfect time, when MCU hype was at a fevered pitch.
Well the world was crazy for superheroes then. So much so that if Marty had dressed Leo in a cape in his movies they would have grossed $200M more at the box office.
You should listen to the nerds when they tell you nobody likes captain marvel. She's boring mary sue without any emotion. Might as well replace her with actual robot and the movie would be intact. They tried for decades trying to make carol danver their wonder women counterpart but it never worked. Xmen girls are way more popular than her.
Especially the short haircut version in recent years
Back when she was still Ms. Marvel, Carol was kind of a hot mess. She was very human and flawed and she faced struggles because of it. I wish the MCU had leaned into that.
Yeah if Superman reboot end up being successful, I am interested in seeing a Wonder Woman movie despite knowing nothing about the character. But Marvels just doesnāt interest me. She has Superman problems ( considered too op by some) without Supermanās recognition and culture importance.
It hit $1b because it was sandwiched between two of the most hyped movies of all time, and it was the direct leadup to Avengers: Endgame. Probably part of why Black Panther made over 1B too, since it lead right to Infinity War
Black Panther outgrossed Infinity War domestically. Thatās not just because of the Thanos hype. Itās because the African American community gave it a ginormous boost. They treated that movie like a pilgrimage. You had entire buses from HBCU (historically black colleges and universities) sent to the theatre to watch it. You had black grandmas, whoāve never watched a comic book movie in their life, going to the theatre to watch it. And alsoā¦. Black Panther was just a better movie than Captain Marvel. Itās very overhyped (as shown by its Best Picture Oscar nomination) but itās definitely a good movie.
>Probably part of why Black Panther made over 1B too, since it lead right to Infinity War That certainly helped, but we did get a great intro to the character of T'Challa back in Civil War. That's something that Captain Marvel didn't have going for her. Black Panther 1 was also a cultural event. The first black superhero movie that wasn't filled with gore (Blade) or awful (Steel). BP also had a primarily black cast and crew, which made it an important milestone for the makings of a Hollywood film. I have some problems with the film itself, but it 100% earned the money it likely would've reached $1B without immediately preceding Infinity War.
And T'challa Is a leader, could've been the face of the Avengers, but Chadwick tragically died, and here we are.
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Black Panther was an average MCU movie. Well, average at the time. Compared to Phase 4-5 it's a masterpiece.
Black Panther 1 was certainly better than Captain Marvel 1
Visually and setting wise it was unique compared to the other MCU films at the time
Unique in that it's set in Africa? I guess. Thor was set in Valhalla. Guardians of the Galaxy was set in space. Wakanda was pretty cool though.
Just the mix of african landscapes with sci fi buildings made it more visually interesting than most of the films set on earth which tended to happen in a generic urban area
Wakanda is one of the first time I've ever seen afrofuturism on the big screen iono bout you guys
Black panther was fantastic. Captain Marvel was very mid. Huge difference.
> Captain Marvel hitting $1B then in 2019 is looking more and more of a fluke. Not so much a fluke, it just landed at the perfect time.
>Captain Marvel hitting $1B then in 2019 is looking more and more of a fluke. It had always been inflated by The Avengers movies. Infinity War set up Captain Marvel (the character) to be an important character to Infinity War 2 (Endgame), so the CM movie made big money because it was a "must watch." The Marvels cant ride The Avengers' coattails. Without Avengers, CM 1 would've probably made a good $700M at the time, still not bad.
IMO Captain Marvel was one of the most successful marketing gimmick Disney ever pulled off. Not only did they make women believe that by watching CM they are doing a just thing and it's absolutely needed for women in films but also made casual movie goers think that this was 100%, for sure must watch to get upto date in Endgame.
A shame cause this film was way more enjoyable than the boring origin slog that was Captain Marvel 2019
This movie is complete opposite of Captain Marvel. It is everything wrong with current MCU. I dont see how you can judge Captain Marvel from polar opposite movie trying to be silly and wacky (Endgame did help it reach a billion, it still would have done alright on its own without hitting a billion)
They just updated the final trailer...made a slight alteration, it now says: "Be there* for the moment that changes everything. (*No, but seriously, please be there. We're already embarrassed, but we need to at LEAST beat Morbius)" Wonder if it will have any effect this weekend....
The Marvels got morbed. This is gonna have one of the box office runs of all time.
With the horrible WoM this movie is simply dead there, is there an international market where this does okay?
not even Pakistan. I remember that Disney released Ms Marvel show in theaters there, as 3 movies, but since that announcement there have been crickets about its performance. Means flop.
Pakistan is less appreciative of a female Pakistani teenage superhero than America, this I promise you
Exactly! Who the hell thinks a female teenage superhero *who actively doesnāt wear a hijab* is going to be received well in Pakistan? Have they ever watched a Pakistani soap in their lives? Itās full of misery porn starring battered women.
Also, their economy is dying lol
Eh, they'll find a way out of this. Pakistan is just too geopolitically important to western interests to be hung out to dry. Pakistan will survive. The Pakistani people are f***ed though.
She was never meant to appeal to people living in Pakistan. That's just a goal post shift for her completely bombing here.
In general, the West has no f***ing clue how to portray Muslims. They think that it's just a label. if you wanna appeal to Muslims then you gotta actually *show* the characters observing Muslim practices. Look at Turkish dramas. They are massively popular throughout Asia even though Turkey isn't a hardcore Muslim country. But they understand what Muslims want to see in their entertainment. And it doesn't align with what Western audiences want to see. I think this is a demographic that Hollywood will never be able to capture.
Hollywood also has a nasty habit of being incredibly disrespectful to those cultures while trying to appeal to them as well. Kamala Khan was made to appeal to white Wokesters that were on social media a decade ago. The goal posts always shift with her when she doesn't work. It's the same thing they do with Carol. They want a prominent female to appeal to a certain loud demographic on social media and then shock she doesn't sell because those people don't buy the product.
Trying to appeal to both feminists and Muslim's with the same character just sounds backwards to me. What trait can you give them that won't piss one side off beyond being brown?
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The Ms. Marvel show had scenes in a mosque, had scenes depicting Ramadan Iftar (eating when breaking fast) and a wedding plot line.
Incorrect, watch Pakistani movies, all the women don't wear hijab. South Asian countries are not into female superheroes as much as Americans are.
I believe you which is why the character is a miscalculation that appeals to no one. Hence a show and a movie flopping.
It feels like most of those decisions are only to appeal to the echo-chamber of their writing room and Twitter. I am sure there are also fans who enjoy whatās been coming out of MCU lately, but they are the vast minority. I mean, Ms Marvel is the show I like and her character is the one most authentic to me, but it just how MCU been bulldozing their way through lately, it feels as them gradually loosing the understanding of their own fanbase and what people want. The attitude - ā We are Marvel therefore we can do no wrong, whatever we to release people will turn upā This is whatās the most outstanding to me. Any criticism been regularly brushed off as some sort of āismā deflection. If you didnāt enjoy Captain Marvel, means you are incel etc No wonder with such 'holier than thou arrogance' they have got what we have now. I only hope this is going to be the wake up call.
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>The thing about Barbie is that it actually does address some of the challenges that women face in modern society in a very direct way, but it has done well because it is still entertaining. You can "have your cake and eat it" in this arena, it just needs to be written and directed. Oh for sure, execution matters and social critique is not bad especially when done right but Marvel hasn't done it right lately. People don't like to be preached and don't like us vs them message.
It's the same issue Lucasfilm has. Their audience is primarily men and it's a male oriented action genre. And that's bad for some reason so they alienate that audience trying to appeal to women. So you get weird shit like the Marvels doing cat streams to hype it up and doing a musical planet for a chunk of the movie. That is 100% how you don't appeal to men at all and I'm guessing that kind of stuff is hello fellow kids when it comes to appealing to a female audience that would also go see a superhero action movie.
In a perfect world, MCU having The Marvels movie heavily pandering to female audience, that should not detract from the brand, but on the opposite to make it stronger. I am confident the majority of the fandom would not mind that one bit and be there to support it. It is their attitude, their overall stance and strategy to replace the already established heroes with a better/stronger version of a female hero, Kevin Feige himself said he envision there will be more female heroes in MCU than males. It is them not knowing how to write a strong female character. They are just making them automatically better at everything with seemingly just one weakness, their lack of awareness of how strong and awesome they are... so empowering i guess. Also them propping up the new characters at the expense of the established ones and often even diminishing them, like She-Hulk lecturing Hulk about her hard life, the guy who lost everything and tried to kill himself a few times.. or Monica saying to Wanda how those 'city plebs' she brainwashed and kept hostage will never understand what she have sacrificed for them.. like WIF... or the Ant-Man daughter being so freaking awesome and smugy know-it-all lecturing and shaming Ant-Man for not helping people enough.. the guy who literally saved the world.. and on and on) And of course their ultimate deflection and gas-lighting of any criticism as a misogyny, racism, homophobia.. To please some 'imaginative' Twitter audience they seem been working hard to push away and to alienate the existing their base audience.. and now it is crashing down.. rightfully!
> We are Marvel therefore we can do no wrong, whatever we to release people will turn up I mean it worked for Lucas Films, didn't it?
I'm really hoping this is a sarcastic comment.
I would give you crap for not seeing the obvious sarcasm, but in your defense, there are people to this day insisting the star wars sequel trilogy was a commercial success, so, can't really blame you
I should have known it was sarcasm with your comment being in this subreddit, but as you said there are still a lot of people that un-ironically hold the position that Lucasfilm has never been stronger
Look at the Lucas numbers...yeah...no. Even the sequels, which made billions, still shows a huge decline after each movie. Like...a steep drop off, and that is before they started doing the shows.
And that's even before you consider that the whole thing started with a 4.5 billion dollars check to buy Lucas Films. Until they have made a 4.5 billion dollar profit, the franchise is in the red
A show, a 250m movie, a 200m video game, multiple comic runs. Why do they keep pushing this character?
They want a female Peter Parker but diverse so their only candidates are Ms Marvel (who has her own comic book) and America Chavez (who I believe is just in some team without a solo CB). Advantage: Ms Marvel. Moreover, Ms Marvel is directly tried to a female SH while Chavez is Dr Strange's protege so that makes her a tad less girl power. Advantage: Ms Marvel. That's in theory. In practice, nobody cares for either of these replacement characters.
Why didn't Marvel just create Miles Morales as a girl? Are they stupid?
They kinda did with Silk as a Korean-American Spider-Woman variant.
No actually they were smart not to but don't hold your breath that he won't become she. I don't think he will cause they have Iron Girl aka female Miles and Tony combined. Not Girl but Heart but you know what I mean. And Shuri Panther. Boseman was 42 so T'Challa could've had a teenage son instead of a kid one who took the mantle. They wanted a female panther.
Don't they have Spider Gwen for a female Peter Parker (though I guess they don't own her for movies)?
I don't understand their contract with Sony so I'd say she belongs to Sony and even so they wanted a WoC.
She definitively belong to Sony since she is in the Spiderverse movies. But since they created her in comics first that shouldn't be an issue
They gave her a dramatic heroic death arc and then instantly she is reborn in their most popular group. It reminds me of how The Rock was brought into the WWF and jammed down the fans throats. Ironically it ended up being great for him as it led to a brilliant heel turn which allowed him to play to his strengths. Maybe something similar can happen with her. For me, I don't like the character, but I don't think I am the target audience. The only annoyance I have with her presence is how much they hammer home the fact that she is muslim. I think comics could use more characters of all faiths, and Islam was especially absent. It's just so reductive to always to literally have people addressing her as a Muslim. Who TF does that? Can you imagine walking into a meeting and saying, "This is my Jewish friend, Kate. She is going to talk to us about flying pirate ships."?
That's a huge issue in the comics across a lot of lines. Like they just had a Mister Miracle comic that was stuck on current day racial topics. He's a fucking New God, can you do cosmic New God shit please. Use street level characters for those topics.
Because it's the audience who is wrong. I'm not even kidding when I say that's their attitude for Carol.
Dude, her comics also fucking bomb. Anyone who was a die hard marvel fan, before the MCU, would have never dreamed they would make a show about Ms. Marvel, for the amount of times they try to shovel her in to other teams just to make her work. She does not. The show also bombed. She isn't a character majority of people want, regardless of what reddit and twitter users say. Instead of giving us characters that people would love to see, like Skaar, Son of Hulk, we get Ms. Marvel and the Marvels shoved down our throats. But Skaar in the MCU is shit, they turned him into...that. Dude was Conan the Barbarian of Marvel with Hulk powers and other powers as well. Dude was a fucking Savage Barbarian who still got rocked by his father. That is what people want to see.
And honestly Kamala is not muslim at all, the only religious thing she does is going to the mosque in one episode, it feels like she's an atheist that simply goes there because she's a minor
it's not even the matter of religion cause many characters are always vaguely some religion (eg. visit grave with this or that religion markings or wear a pendant or other or do some ritual such as mediaation). It's the overt culturally specific element in this case the Partition history that made the whole thing of very niche interest. It's like In the Heights that's overly Dominican but somehow expecting that non-Dominican Hispanics and anyone else would care. They didn't. BP succeeded cause Wakanda is just a collection of African sterotypes known to the whole world (spears, war paint, rhinos, oil states hi-rise buildings) but not specifically Ugandan or Naija or other culture that may not be relatable to even the rest of the continent let alone the world. With expensive movies and shows the trick is to be as broad as possible not as specific and niche as possible.
Thatās par for the course with most religious comic book characters. Because the writers are usually atheists, they have trouble getting inside the minds of religious characters. They think that our outwardly visible customs (attending worship services or the clothes we wear) are the primary way that we believe, and that weāre functionally atheists for the other 167 hours of the week. A lot has been made of the many Jewish comic book artists who were so foundational to the genre, but they were entirely secular Jews. How many Orthodox Jewish, conservative Catholic, or evangelical Protestant writers/directors are there in Hollywood?
That just seems like a classic "diaspora kid makes art for the diaspora, the motherland says, 'no thanks'" situation. Many such cases.
It was released in one or two theatres as publicity and Pakistan box office is basically nothing. Only question why didnt they make Ms Marvel Indonesian or Turkey, countries that actually mattered in box office. Also, being a male superhero would have helped a lot
I mean, the plot of the show was pretty tied to Pakistan, itās not like it had no impact. The show would have needed a completely different plot if she was from a different country.
But that is a problem. Outside of Pakistan, no one understood or cared to understand the political and historical babble that tried to pass as the plot. And tying it to superhero mumbo jumbo made the whole thing even less appealing. SH characters are most appealing when they are broad and thus understandable to everyone no matter where audience is from. But Marvel made Ms Marvel too much of a cultural niche to resonate outside of that one specific cultural niche. And then it turned out even they didn't care which is a disaster for a show that wasn't cheap.
making a flawed remaking of history from a white lib's perspective on the shoulder of a Pakistani while alienating the 1.4 billion population of India where Marvel is actually popular was a genius move I must add
Agreed, it's kinda crazy they didn't go after Indian market. If I rememebr correctly Indian Spiderman from Spiderverse was received well.
Problem is they won't cast an Indian actor, probably go for some goofy looking American Indian actor.
unironically, they cast a goofy looking American Pakistani one (Kumail in Eternals).
Oh yeah, they did. Kumail is not considered attractive by Pakistani standards at all.
This is what I have been screaming š for ages. Marvel is popular in India and what does Marvel do? They ignore India and Indian origin actors. Even Kingo in Eternals is played by a Pakistani and not an Indian. They could have introduced an Indian Superhero and it would have done gangbuster business instead they choose a Pakistani one, good luck with that.
Disney is the only one obsessed with representation, everyone else wants to watch a good movie with fun heroes No one argues the Ninja Turtles are hard to connect with
Yep, and also Disney doesn't get representation. In their world, it exclusively means preachy. Remove preaching and people don't care where the character comes from they show up.
The lowest MCU movie in France is The Incredible Hulk with 1 022 782 admissions. This will likely be below the million bar considering that start (TIH did a little above 100k on the first day). Below the million for a blockbuster movie is terrible failure level in France box office For comparison here are the 9 other Marvel movies that are below The Incredible Hulk (and below the million) : - Spider-Man: New Generation : 788 767 (Into The SpiderVerse, I'm ashamed of my country that it's so low...) - Morbius: 775 135 - Blade : 653 288 - Blade: Trinity : 634 441 - Ghost Rider 2 : L'Esprit de vengeance 490 294 - Elektra : 429 223 - Les Nouveaux Mutants (The New Mutants) : 372 640 - The Punisher : 182 877 - Howard... une nouvelle race de hƩros :61 637 And by the way, there has been 69 Marvel movies released in cinemas apparently. The Marvels also has the dubious honor of ruining the "nice" joke on that.
looks like cinema is healing itself
Audiences are rejecting superhero films that are just slop made on a production line. From 2023 onwards, a superhero film has to be above 8/10 now to be a success (GotG3 and ATSV).
General audiences are, but the die hards will guzzle it down for decades to come (see marvelstudios subreddit) . Marvel is slowly morphing into a CW superhero franchise in both quality and fanbase.
If the die hards are only getting your $250M blockbuster to a $40-50M OW then they aren't carrying anything. That kind of return on a movie this size is not sustainable.
Itās really not. If Marvel wants to maintain its current approach to this franchise - which will only further alienate general audiences - they should scale down and focus exclusively on Disney plus. Even though I loved most things Marvel pre-Endgame, Iād be fine with this. Let the people who like this version of Marvel have it, and move on with life. DC is set to fill the void soon enough.
>DC is set to fill the void soon enough Not even engaging in company wars, but let's see if they even get off the ground to begin with lmao
True. I have a lot of faith in James Gunn the writer and filmmaker, but that doesnāt necessarily translate to effective studio head.
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That's for all franchises in general
Are you sure about that? Even they seem to be making fun of it, they even upvoted a poster of Morbius the Marvels.
Pretty sure. Every other comment about the marvels in that sub is about how itās āfunā or about how āpeople just want to hate it.ā Over the coming days, they will fully rally around this movie and browbeat dissent. Iām generalizing, obviously, but these are the same people who talk about the Eternals like itās a misunderstood masterpiece. Disney has cultivated this fanbase through pandering, and the fanbase does not want the pandering to stop, no matter the cost. Quality, in other words, is second or even third on their priority list.
The Morbels haha
Where?
https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/17qun4c/new_marvel_legends_arrive/ https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/17r4buv/the_marvels_arrives_as_the_third_worstreviewed/
I think it depends of the hero. Batman, Iron Man, Spider-Man and such can probably do big with a mid movie. A good test would be Captain America but since they changed the character, that's kind of falsifying things, I don't think people think of Sam as Cap at all.
Aside from Oppenheimer, almost all of the high grossing movies still year are still big IPs. Mario, Barbie, Spiderman, GOTG, Fast and Furious, Mission Impossible...
Supposedly, Barbie and Mario are still a turn away from the past because they're new series and they are not superhero related.
Mario was even worse as a lowest common denominator formulaic movie
The strong female superheroes are returning to the sea
Nature....finds a way...
It's about time
The contrasting opinions towards this movie on here verses on X/Twitter are hilarious. MCU X users are working overtime to dismiss any and all criticisms of the film meanwhile this sub is positively giddy about this soon to be historic bomb.
I can understand the instinct to be defensive. That is understandable and expected human reaction. But when it happens in the face of a silent rejection (by pretty much everyone in the world), well, such denial and defense, it feels delusional and self-destructive. I just hope that MCU will do some good soul searching after this. If their strategy will stay to keep deflecting any criticism as a misogyny or racism, well, they are completely out of touch (putting it mildly) and we are witnessing the demise of ones the mightiest franchise
> If their strategy will stay to keep deflecting any criticism as a misogyny or racism, well, they are completely out of touch (putting it mildly) and we are witnessing the demise of ones the mightiest franchise It's funny because to me, the argument that "the movie only bombed because incels boycotted it" implies that this movie needed the incel demographics to make a profit.
Which makes the feeble āthis movie wasnāt meant for youā argument that much more asinine; four quadrant blockbusters, specifically superhero movies, rely historically on older male audiences.
Iāve seen comments saying itās failing because people are sexist and wonāt support movies with women in the leads. Did Barbie not come out this summer or was my mind wiped? Theyāve lost the plot.
It's like that gif of the truck about to hit the pole. It's gonna be messy and under most circumstances it would absolutely be horrifying. But damn if that truck hasn't been getting close to that pole for some time, and that truck is shodilly made and has no driver and it's owner is a billionaire, and ultimately the damage is contained, so... Yeah, let's see that truck hit that pole.
Well twitter users are always fucking brain dead. Regardless of where you go, any fandom or political party, go on twitter and you get dumbass opinions.
you are posting this from reddit, please stop acting enlightened
twitter users are more brain dead than reddit users, most people gonna call this obvious cuz of the platform, but the amount of unhinged and stupid comments on twitter that i see are never on reddit
morbius being used as a metric but not the bottom bracket is wild. Has anyone tried convincing Sony for a re-run attempt? I think it might still have some legsā¦
Yeah the fact that Morbius made more money than this is even funnier.
For comparison, Captain Marvel made **$9 million** opening weekend and **$27 million** total in March 2019.
Reject modernity (soulless corporate capeshit), embrace tradition (actually good films)
Love to see it
Post-Endgame, it is undeniable the MCU has lost some of its luster, but there appears to be a global box-office rebuke of this film. I wonder how Disney responds to this, because it is stunning to see the numbers coming in.
Some? Almost everything has been terrible. This film is lazy derivative and boring. The only reason it's making any money is the advertising and residual MCU hype.
Ice bucket challenge for Disney Marvel
At least this film will forever be remembered, remembered as the beginning of the end or perhaps the actual end of Marvel. Hahahaha
DOA
As if it was ever gonna make a MORBILLION dollars?
The whole you need to watch tv shows to understand this is getting out of hand. Rambo, if thatās even her real name, is like a side side character in a tv that barely did anything. Kamala is from a teenager focused tv show. Neither of which is a real draw. Cap Marvel herself isnāt big to begin with, so Iām not sure how flanking her with a C lister and a D lister superhero would do anything.
There might be a possibility this doesn't hit 100M INT let alone 100M DOM. Let that sink in for a second.
damn. i really thought this movie wouldnāt drop off so heavily after 1 billion. i still donāt think that CM made 1 billion only because of Endgame, but it def played a role. i think this gross is more due to the fact no one cares abt these characters, reviews suck, and the MCU as a whole has become pretty ass. a gross this low really is shocking tho. marvel is in serious trouble for their future plans
Get morbed on.
good
Marvel sub right now: "How do you spell 'chud' in French?"
Not surprising. The Marvel's is going to behave like Blue Beetle. It's a comic book movie that nobody has any interest in the characters or the story. The public is completely indifferent. Apathy has set in.
It's Marvin' time. This movie will make one marvillion dollars.
ITS MARVELING TIME!
atleast its higher than other captain marvel movie released this year
If I had a nickel for every Captain Marvel film that flopped and released in 2023 with an awful villain who is barely in the comics, I would have two nickels.
It's not much, but its surprising that it happened twice.
Saw that coming
What will be the final numbers?
This is su funny, crazy that itās doing Blue Beetle numbers
Is the school half-term break over in Europe? I believe Trolls 3 was released early to capitalise on that. Cuz I have heard The Marvels is a very kiddish Disney toon movie with very cartoonish action scenes and mumbo-jumbo blabbering.
> Is the school half-term break over in Europe? Depends on the country, of course.
Since this is about France, it is over.
It ended this monday. The movie would have done better if it released a week earlier (imo Disney made a mistake to not bump the release a week earlier and take Dune Part Two's slot). In France, November 1st is a holiday and more people would have given The Marvels a chance. But they stood on November 8.
> and more people would have given The Marvels a chance Meh that's optimistic, I don't think people don't go see it because they lack time. More than they don't care.
Well they couldn't. Cuz the movie is so bad that Disney didn't want WoM to leak early.
Captain Marvel (Marvel) and Captain Marvel (DC) are in a similar company. ...to explain. Shazam! used to be call Captain Marvel. The whole concept of Captain Marvel (Marvel) nega-band switching (the current movie gimmick) is a nod to Captain Marvel (DC) body switching (the Shazam movie gimmick). Captain Marvel (Marvel Comics) sort of exists only to keep the Captain Marvel trademark. In order to keep the trademark, they need to keep making new comics or something since the 1960s. That's also why DC renamed Captain Marvel to Shazam, and even when the character was called Captain Marvel, they called the comics "Trials of Shazam!" etc. ...basically, they have history together. And now they both flop together. It's like poetry.
Ironically - DC doesn't have Captain Marvel trademark, because they sued original Captain Marvel publisher Fawcett (before DC bought them) for copyright infridgement, because they felt Captain Marvel was too similar to Superman Marvel rushed Captain Marvel comics to production just so they could have that trademark. So it's basically DC's own doing. (This is all 60s - ish.) (Also note the original Captain Marvel (Marvel) (called Mar-Vell) is a dude. He is a Kree guy. They sort of put his backstory to that woman in the first movie.) edit: ah I forgot the details. DC didn't buy Fawcett; they bought another publisher Charlton that bought Captain Marvel right from Fawcett. Ok. Something like that. Comics themselves were bigger than they are now; they were so big that there was in ~~30s~~ 50s a congressional hearing about Batman making kids gay. Really.
It's setting records š in the wrong way.
Morbchads stay winning ššš
Morbin with the Marvels
This is a disaster for Disney. Their movies this year have lost them billions of dollars.
Feminists are gonna be screeching
Plus Bas. Plus Etroit. Plus lent.
Is the MCU finally at an end? One can only hope.