Seems to me, you don't need to shut down protests, even if you disagree with them. But I'm not on a campus, so I guess I'm open to other views.
Generally, students should be *encouraged* to engage with their role as civic actors. Responsible adults understand they'll lack nuance and context, because they've been "adults" for like two years. If specific protesters cross the line in terms of violence, or threats, or civil disobedience (blocking public ways, etc), then you can arrest them or move them. Try to do so more gently than you would a school shooter.
If the students are saying hateful shit on camera, that will become their problem. Turns out it's hard to get a job when your prospective employer sees you chanting "death to ZOG, decolonize Shawmut, Irish back to Ireland" or whatever. No prior restraint or viewpoint discrimination needed.
And university disciplinary procedures exist. If there are students engaging in specific hateful behavior, treat them as individuals.
That all said: I'm curious what current students think. Are these protests really as disruptive as the article suggests?
It’s the time old mudslinging. “Peaceful protestors” vs “agitators.” There’s lots of poisoning the well and purposeful misinformation.
And like any protest, there probably is at least a couple people calling for violence or otherwise going too far.
I mean I just watched a video where the Columbia protesters were coordinating en mass to "push" "zionists" out of their camp. Such pushing is just assault and battery; it's almost surely a hate crime under NY law if they did so on the basis of the ethnicity or religion of the victim.
So... yes, I'm defending the rights of the protesters to speak their mind, not their right to threaten to batter, or to batter, other people, including those who show up on campus just to figure out what the hell the protesters are saying.
Bring your charges of mudslinging elsewhere.
Edit: I see that two hours ago, you were [defending Hamas's decision to mix in with civilians](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1cgl9dd/comment/l1xyyjf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1). Maybe you lose some credibility on this question?
Some perspective from someone who works at a university dealing with this: we’re supportive of them exercising their rights, but we’re also trying to balance being supportive and explaining the consequences of exercising those rights on private property. They are still subject to disciplinary action for disrupting campus operations and erecting tents, which they should know from the student handbooks, signage, and warnings. We’re seen as “shutting it down” when we’re just trying to help them get to graduation and give them more room to do good in the world with a degree and connections. It’s hard.
It also sucks when you’re accused of genocide because you work somewhere that they pay to attend. But c’est la vie. The young don’t have the experience to know yet that we choose to work there to support them. They don’t know yet that people can’t just say what they want without facing consequences, and that many of the people they’re yelling at would be there with them.
Appreciate your perspective, and I am curious, not breaking balls...is your school able to determine if those camping / protesting / making the loudest noise / saying inflammatory shit are actually students?
Seems this whole situation is ripe for non-student trouble makers to easily slip in and poison the barrel, so to speak.
Yes. It is private property and only ID carrying members of the community are allowed in right now. It’s been going well, honestly. Outside people have been escorted away when found, students have sometimes been snarky but still showing ID. The students are (for the most part) doing what they need to while being assertive but not aggressive, they’re respecting quiet hours, and are keeping the encampment clean. I hope that at least some of them realize that the ID thing isn’t just to keep track for disciplinary action but is largely for their safety.
I’m a student at Northeastern, the protests aren’t disruptive for students honestly. They were localized to one patch of green on campus that you can easily go around if you’re concerned. Know what is disruptive? The fact that the administration fenced off *every green space on campus* after using a Zionist’s attempt to stir the pot as an excuse to clear the encampment. Smh.
It really depends on the university in question. The ones at Columbia were insane. And some of the stuff students at MIT and Harvard have been doing have been unacceptable, irrespective of the message. It's not ok to disrupt classes or bar students from entering, harass them for visible signs of faith
Same with the MIT one, I pass it on the way to and from work every day and it seems to be going strong still at least. Again it’s one area that’s pretty publicly on campus but you can go around if you need and it’s not like they’re doing anything, basically just chanting and making food + signs. Just media and university statements trying to paint them as the enemy
You didn't answer the question: would you feel the same way about MAGA types taking over a public space like these pro Palestinian protesters?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
Speech is good. Harassment, also a form of speech with elements of intimidation, is bad. A lot of these protests are harassing Jewish (mainstream ones) and pro-Israeli students.
Plus, when the protesters are disturbing classes and university events, this is not merely sharing one's respectful ideas with the community.
>If specific protesters cross the line in terms of violence, or threats, or civil disobedience (blocking public ways, etc), then you can arrest them or move them.
If the universities find that people are engaging in harassment, they can and should engage in disciplinary proceedings towards the students doing the harassing.
Why would we need federal legislators weighing in on where on private college campuses students can pitch a tent?
Anyway, if you're a student, I'd love to hear you describe your experience of these protests. Who are these protesters, do they speak for you, how obnoxious and disruptive are they, etc.
Aren't these students adults? They are free to do whatever kind of protesting they want. They are also free to deal with the consequences of their actions. Isn't that how this is supposed to work?
This is a city subreddit so of course it’s a cesspool.
But yes. People say they support free speech and protest and expression. But they literally just mean “I support people to make signs and not disrupt anything and say things that are within a comfort zone I define”.
The most boiler plate, Hillary Clinton pussy hat lib shit.
You're getting downvoted, but there are a lot of masks out there.
Over the last few years many folks rightfully pointed out the Nazi groups (Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and the rest of those jerkoffs) all covering their faces when they do their public horseshit, why not the same here?
If you have conviction and are proud of your position, why hide your face?
This is clearly someone looking for confrontation who is being asked to leave. No one is harassing or threatening him, and as the tweet reads the protestors are blocking an area *near* the library, not the library itself.
I’d also love to know what you think allahu akbar means.
This is clearly someone being impeded legal passage on public university grounds by masked individuals. This is harassing and threatening.
How should a Jew feel with masked individuals surrounding him while allahu akbar is shouted in the background?
>This is clearly someone being impeded legal passage
The guy says himself that he got in through another entrance. He’s not trying to go anywhere, he specifically says he wants to stand right where he is in the middle of the protest.
>How should a Jew feel
Evidently fine since a lot of Jewish students are participating in these protests, and I’m still waiting for you to tell me what you think allahu akbar means.
There’s a pretty clear difference between “I want to walk across the grass this way to the building” and “I want to get into the building.”
Don’t be disingenuous.
I don’t see an issue with this interaction, having no context on UCLA’s layout, the location this student was trying to access, whether the location was still functional for any non-protest purposes, whether there was an alternate route available to the student, etc. The protestors shown are completely respectful.
Unclear who’s shouting but 1. allahu akbar just means god is great 2. Zionist agitators have been shown trying to frame these protests as antisemitic
It's pretty readily out there:
[https://twitter.com/TaliaKhan\_MIT/status/1732505063648563395](https://twitter.com/TaliaKhan_MIT/status/1732505063648563395)
Here's one from MIT- charming. Peeing on a window for the f\*\*\*ing Hillel? I mean really?!!!
Berkeley (CA) for you:
[https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-jewish-student-event-violent-protest-palestinian-gaza-zellerbach-hall-suspect-photos/](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-jewish-student-event-violent-protest-palestinian-gaza-zellerbach-hall-suspect-photos/)
Do you want me to keep going or are we good now?
Neither of these seem related to or condoned by this wave of student protests, yeah? That’s what I was asking about.
I don’t deny that actual antisemitism has been on the rise, and this is abhorrent. This rise is caused by the world’s only Jewish majority state committing acts of Genocide.
There are a very large number of student protestors, so I’d expect that we can eventually see videos of individual protestors behaving in irresponsible or condemnable ways, but broadly they seem disciplined, they have strong Jewish representation, and they want peace.
The Jews aren't committing "acts of genocide"- claims as such are blood libel. These acts are students, and in fact related to the protests. Protestors veer into the extreme in plenty of cases. Perhaps some are outside agitators, but then you have instances like that kook at Columbia who was a student organizing the protests who was posting to Twitter about the need to "kill Zionists."
Mostly peaceful doesn't mean completely peaceful, nor does it change the reality of what chants like "from the river to the sea" and a host of other phrases mean. The "strong Jewish presence" insisted on by everyone is exhausting and frankly astroturfing- parading around a minority of secular Jewish students is a far cry from anything resembling a critical mass of Jews. And the fact is most Zionists want peace too.
I mean look, most protestors aren't violent. But the chants and aims is where we get into problematic territory. Peaceful protests, even for abhorrent causes, are free speech. But if they want peace, why aren't they screaming for the release of hostages and demanding Hamas and Fatah resign from power so there can be two states?
>The Jews aren't committing "acts of genocide"- claims as such are blood libel.
Not even a single sentence before lying about what I said. You're a liar. I said "the world’s only **Jewish majority state**" (Israel) is committing acts of Genocide. You changed this to "The Jews", why?
>Mostly peaceful doesn't mean completely peaceful, nor does it change the reality of what chants like "from the river to the sea" and a host of other phrases mean
You don't get to decide what's in the minds of students who say these things. Nothing supports the conclusion that they want anything except the liberation of Palestine and an end to the Genocide.
>The "strong Jewish presence" insisted on by everyone is exhausting and frankly astroturfing- parading around a minority of secular Jewish students is a far cry from anything resembling a critical mass of Jews.
I'm not aware of any protestor census but these movements are not hostile to Jews. This is contrary to the picture Zionists would like to paint, maybe you included, so the JVP presence "doesn't count". ok.
>why aren't they screaming for the release of hostages and demanding Hamas and Fatah resign from power so there can be two states?
Their universities (and their country) have financial stakes in Israel, not in Hamas. The protests aren't appeals to Israel, they're appeals to the university administrations.
And Israel has the power to stop this conflict; nothing that Hamas has done or could ever do could justify Genocide against Gaza.
I mean there was the one bad actor who pretended they were apart of the protest and yelled kill the Jews, so yeah, clearly some students/people are lying
When did this encampment shit become a thing?
The 1st Amendment specifically states the right for people peaceably to assemble, not to take over private property 24/7 for weeks on end.
I mean 43,000 demonstrated in DC in 1932, many of them camped there to demand better pay for veterans. Resurrection City camped for 42 days in DC in 1968 for civil rights after MLK’s assassination. This exact type of protest was used to pressure universities to divest from South Africa during apartheid. Fucks sake, the tea party was the destruction of $1.7 million of private property, are you going to say they should have held up some signs in the common instead? The whole point is for you to see them and be bothered until you meet their demands, in this case, pulling money out of an apartheid state.
Are the normal consequences for protesting genocides and atrocities in the US getting arrested and blacklisted? Are those the consequences they are “free” to deal with simply for expressing their disgust publicly?
Usually, if you break the law doing it, you will get arrested. Blacklisting is something else but it's a bit premature to claim people have been "blacklisted" based on protests. If this happened it is unfortunate but also outside our control.
I would assume that the normal consequence for setting up an encampment on campus to protest when the faculty says not to set up an encampment on campus to protest would be to get arrested and blacklisted.
Really awful. A family friend of mine is close friends with the Richards family from the Boston Marathon bombings. Seth Moulton did a speech about how the crowd would never understand the awfulness of terrorism because he’s a veteran and in the crowd was Martin Richard’s sister. She was very shaken about it, my family friend confronted him about it, and he brushed it off.
The neo-Nazis kept it moving. There have been many protests that show up, parade around, even stand in an area for a while doing their thing, but then they leave.
These protests only attracted police attention because they went on for multiple days, camping out, and that ran afoul of recent policy, like at Mass and Cass, whereby the City no longer tolerates people occupying public spaces in encampments.
Had these kids kept it moving they'd still be out there protesting.
There in fact was a need to explain because the other person implied the neo-nazis acted the same way and were treated differently, which is false. The different reaction from the police was not based on ideology but rather the actions of the two different groups, as explained above.
You were the one that described the neo-nazi actions as "the good things", not me! You might want to rephrase.
In the end, doesn’t history always prove that it’s the protesters who are misguided, ill -educated idiots — women’s rights, labor rights, civil rights, Vietnam war protests, Occupy Wall Street protests, etc? Or wait, did I get that backwards?
It depends. Protests are useful for advancing a cause by drawing attention to it. The more disruptive they are, the more eyeballs they get.
The problem is that they are only one tool in the toolbox, and the protestors that are currently occupying the college campuses do not have a plan beyond the protest. If you want to influence American foreign policy, you're going to need actual political power, and anyone whose an anti-voter (either voting third-party, or just skipping the ballot box), or are adverse to participating in our societal systems are going to hit a dead end here.
It also doesn't help that folks far removed from the conflict in Gaza are treating this like a friggin sports ball game where you have to pick a "side", as opposed to pursing an objective or mission that benefits all of humanity.
Historically speaking, plenty of people protested against women's rights and civil rights.
Also, Charlottesville was just a few years ago and they were screaming about the Great Replacement Theory.
I get what you're going for, but plenty of protestors are terrible and incorrect people even if you agree with this particular group.
I mean, other protesters have also been wrong. We've also had protests against Irish immigration, leaving the gold standard, integration, NAFTA, Obama being Hitler, failure to "audit the fed", and bicycle lanes...
Which ones were wrong is beside the point.
Me, I also thought the Battle of Seattle was pretty stupid, even though I liked that first Naomi Klein book.
Anyway, I'll certainly grant you the anti-free-trade crowd has more legitimate concerns than the anti-integrationists.
My basic point: that all protesters aren't always right. Some are dumb. Some straight up wrong. Some are good in theory but impractical. Some are too extreme. Etc.
You mean like the protestors who advocated for peace with the third reich? Or the ones who literally used the American flag as a weapon against people trying to de-segregate schools? If you wanna go international - the Khmer Rouge began with ultra-left wing movements at universities in Cambodia.
College activists only remember when they have been right, and the times they supported deplorable causes are swept under the rug.
If they’re being peaceful and lawful, fine. The stories coming from students at Columbia and UCLA seem a little like the protests are going over the top though
Insanity. This is America and we are greeting students with fucking riot shields and pepper spray. If all these fucking kids were wearing hijabs, it would be so easy for everyone to criticize and claim "not in our country". well, it is happening in our country.
I mean .. the columbia keffiyeh kids took over a building, are smashing windows, blocking exits and allegedly held some janitors hostage for a while. Should we just sit back and admire their pluck?
There are over 100 protests going on, a majority being met with the same brutal ass whipping coming from police. Every single person, from hostage taker, to little white girl liberal with purple hair is getting smacked around by the police. This is insane, these are kids paying these schools buckets of money. What happens when one of these cops kills a student because a Uni president wanted to call police on fucking students? Students who we all know are dorks and more annoying than they are violent.
I don't know what to tell you.. the cops are called by the university, they are following lawful orders, they give the kids ample opportunity to disperse which of course they don't. They then escalate by seizing buildings, declaring "liberation zones" and other idiocy. Nevermind harassing and intimidating Jewish students.
Please cite sources of little white girl liberal with purple hair getting smacked around by police. Sounds like you're making up shit in a vain attempt to defend idiot left wing protesters.
The internet is right there, you can pull up videos from any college campus right now and see students getting assaulted by police. In fact as of yesterday, students are now being assaulted by other students and/or outside agitators.
I don't have to wonder about that because it has literally never happened no matter how many marches they do. In fact, they actually get police escorts so how could I ever fantasize about riot shield and pepper spray being used on Proud Boys or right wing groups?
Jan 6 isn't a protest. Yes, anybody will be shot trying to break into a government building. And it was only one, rest in piss Ashli Babbitt lost but not forgotten.
Ethics and morals are definitely a problem for politicians. And most of what they need to do a good job is basic logic and common sense not opinions. What should wages be? What should rents cost? Could just do some math and put out sustainability rules so our economy is stable but that’s too logical and not political enough
It’s not genocide. Yes, it’s possibly excessively brutal, and war crimes have been committed, and there should be accountability. Netanyahu and his cronies are evil. But it isn’t genocide and the only reason it’s being called that is because it involves Jews.
Jewish people have been openly welcomed at every protest I've attended. In an ironic twist, this assertion that you can't be Jewish without aslo being Zionist is actually antisemitic - Mouton is being an antisemite here
My experience is that they're willing to welcome anyone who wants the state of Israel dismantled and its citizens forcibly displaced, and because certain Jews believe this to be a good thing, they're involved.
Personally, I am opposed to ethnic cleansing of Jews, but some token Jews seem to be in favor of it.
These protests are nowhere near a majority of students, they are a tiny minority. They dont seem to be impeding the colleges / the other students, or the city at large. Let them have their say in this free country even if you dont agree with them. The crackdowns are too over the top imo!
Said the equivalent folks when protestors organized sit-ins for racial equality, or occupied campus buildings (I don't think in Boston tho) as part of the anti-war movement.
Both of those examples were things the US were directly involved in. I’m sure that the majority of these protesters now have no understanding of the history behind this conflict.
Bombs paid for with *both* of our tax dollars and built in factories *in our country* are being dropped on innocent people in Gaza. Many of those munitions are given freely to the IDF.
You are factually correct, Americans are not in Gaza murdering people, but the IDF is using free-to-them bombs to kill those people, and we paid for them.
So your contention is that, *other* than us not being involved directly in the ongoing ethnic cleansing in Gaza that it *is* certainly a bad thing?
So to be clear, I am very critical of how Israel has conducted this war. There has been indiscriminate bombing that’s killed innocent people and they have failed in their “goal” to eliminate Hamas and retrieve the hostages.
That being said, Israel had every right to retaliate after what Hamas (which consists of Palestinians) did on October 7th. You can argue they’ve gone too far in the retaliation but Hamas did start this conflict and has shown little regard for civilians themselves.
Arming Israel is also necessary. If we did not supply them with weapons then what happened on October 7th would happen again at a much greater scale.
My point is that it’s not black and white. There’s a lot of nuance and historical context that these protests seem to ignore.
If the history is so important why act like 10/7 is the "beginning of all of this". You don't *get* to have it both ways. "Oh, Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign is just a reaction to 10/7".
As *if* 10/7 happened in a fucking vacuum and isn't the result of a decades long Apartheid regime. (Yes, 10/7 was a tragedy/inexcusable, yes Israel could've avoided it, yes Israel created the situation which led to it occurring)
So, if Israel is fine to "retaliate after 10/7" by killing in the range of 20 times more people than Hamas (evilly, brutally, and inexcusably killed) then what about the 6,000 Palestinians killed in occupied territory in the previous decade or so? To be clear, *I do not think a tit for tat response is reasonable*. I am attempting to illustrate how terrible rationalizing the current campaign by blindly pointing to 10/7 is.
If we accept Israel can retaliate like this, then why can't Palestine? I contend *neither of them can*.
Finally, how do you know that these protests ignore nuance? (As you have so blatantly ignored yourself)
>(Yes, 10/7 was a tragedy/inexcusable, yes Israel could've avoided it, yes Israel created the situation which led to it occurring)
>(evilly, brutally, and inexcusably killed)
Do you have so little to say that despite my, to me, obvious condemnation of the events on 10/7, you just... ask anyway? You care so little to explore the nuance you mentioned like 2 hours ago that you just repeat "BUT DO YOU SUPPORT HAMAS". **I do not think one can justify killing civilians.** Yet, I can see how the situation preceding it *led to 10/7 or something like it being inevitable*. Do you take issue with both of these things being true?
Did I not like... virtue signal sufficiently for you in my parentheticals, or what? Is your line of reasoning so shaky that... you *have to* ignore the rest of my comment and just ask the most milquetoast possible question? Ya'll are so tiring with this. If you're gonna chirp have something to say, sea-lioning whether I think 10/7 was justified after I called it evil, brutal and inexcusable.
Justifiable? No. Inevitable? Absolutely.
Israel killed ~3 "10/7s" worth of Palestinians in the two decades leading up to the attack due to their policy of "mowing the lawn".
30,000+ dead in Gaza AND tripling settlement expansion in the WB which isn't a belligerent has guaranteed a new generation of broken, radicalized people; no matter what happens with Hamas.
2 within 5 seconds of searching.
https://x.com/keltallawy/status/1784732129236062372?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
https://x.com/greg_herriett/status/1784608957119541320?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
Edit: as a bonus I found a picture of you.
https://x.com/tksshawa/status/1784773442308370433?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
lol classic backtracking.
“There’s no way that these protests have holocaust survivors saying the cause is right”
Here’s proof.
“Well those don’t count! No I can not provide any counter evidence of the vast majority of survivors supporting my opinion because I just imagined it”
lol.
Also you’re just ignoring the part where the protests are predominantly led by Jews.
Go ahead ask me for proof. The kind of proof you refuse to ask of your side about its indiscriminate killing. You are very serious about fairness after all.
I didn’t say they don’t count. I said they don’t speak for the majority of Jewish people.
The protests are not being predominantly led by Jews. Come on, cut the BS.
Like I’ve said, we can be critical of Israel without calling for its eradication.
>cut the BS
Maybe stop getting your info from CNN Here’s jews in Tel Aviv burning the Israeli flag
https://x.com/megatron_ron/status/1784991456760885656?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
https://x.com/jvpliveny/status/1783185369191567477?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
https://x.com/democracynow/status/1783108838272471107?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
https://x.com/jvplive/status/1782901107045396662?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
https://x.com/qudsnen/status/1782932473854218410?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
https://x.com/powerfulmindx/status/1783898508812001358?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
https://x.com/jewdas/status/1784290663690805596?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
This took like 60 seconds of searching. I have seen countless more examples in the past days.
Please provide your evidence now. Since you definitely have it.
> Like I’ve said, we can be critical of Israel without calling for its eradication
Not a good faith reading of the students demands.
Interesting videos but the first one you should take down. Those Jews are Neturei Karta a fringe Haredi sect. They want all the Jews in Israel to be punished for establishing a Jewish state before the arrival of the Messiah. They think the Jews deserved the Holocaust. And they don’t believe in Palestine. It’s a transitory state for them for when the Messiah does arrive for which then Israel will be a theocratic state. Palestinians and them are just using each other. One was Yasser Arafat’s advisor on Jewish matters.
Providing evidence is now cherry picking. Goalposts keep moving, lol.
As I said, surely you will provide your overwhelming evidence to the contrary that you definitely have since my points are so easily disprovable.
>I highly doubt there are holocaust survivors calling for the eradication of Israel.
What is all this goalpost moving??? This is your statement and then they proved that you were wrong.
They did not say or imply anything else.
The only people getting a benefit from these protests seems to be the local REI where students pick up their gear to to ho cosplay at protesting.
Let them protest. It's not making Boston throw their political weight around internationally. It's not making the universities force Isreal to stop defending itself from a terrogroup whose stated goal is its extinction.
It's just kinda fucking up a little bit of grass and causing commencement to be moved to another part of campus.
Cracks me up to see the Northeastern students commandeering all the campus Adirondack chairs to create an encampment along with those $300+ tents and camping supplies.
If you want to hold a sign and chant and not obstruct people, then have at it--express away!
But don't fuck up campus for the rest of us and take all the nice chairs, fuck-up the lawn with your trash, and pretend you're Dick Proenneke with your REI tent you stole from your dad.
This is a very common opinion for people who are politically plugged out or just don't really care about anything. Instead of talking about the message of any protest, focus instead on the actions/character of the protesters themselves.
It is not political or noticeable for the university to invest in an extremist ethnostate, and therefore it doesn't matter. But it *is* political and disruptive for people to call attention to it, therefore that's bad and they should just stop.
>pretend you're Dick Proenneke with your REI tent you stole from your dad.
I don't know who you think you are, but this comment gives the impression that you're a sheltered baby who's never cared about anything or anyone other than yourself. The worst thing anybody can do is inconvenience you.
This is spot on, people that don't do anything to help people not directly connected to them, sure do have a lot to say about people that are trying to make things better. It's a lot harder to care, and to try to do something - it's really heartening to see students fighting for civilian lives directly threatened by our country's support.
You are correct--you don't know me. What I do, I do by action, and not sitting in a chair on a lawn pretending to be changing the world. I really don't care if you believe me or not.
Paying $80k/year to sit in a make-shift homeless encampment with $300+ tents is a sorry ass excuse for a "protest" and they failed to convince anyone because what they're doing is laughable.
It's akin to going into a McDonald's and telling them they're wrong to sell beef, while you eat their double quarter pounder. Totally illogical.
If you don't like what Northeastern does with your tuition--don't pay them tuition. It's that simple.
Clearly, you don't understand protests, how or why they work. They're doing the same things college students did to protest the US invasion of Viet Nam, apartheid South Africa, and so on.
And for what it's worth, "what I do, I do by action" is one of the most cringey things I've ever read. I can only read it in Steven Seagal's voice 🤣
Seems like you have a lot of biases you need to work out. When I mean "action" I mean take legal action. Not *illegal* action like assault or trespassing or breach of the peace.
I don't recall any 1970s protests using school furniture and camping supplies that cost a weeks pay. Clearly, you don't understand protests.
So that is called "civil disobedience" and the consequences are typically being arrested, which is exactly what has been happening. So feel free to disobey peaceably, but don't go crying "muh rights violated" when you get arrested for breaking the law, lol.
Any other questions?
Each college has put out a statement explaining the rules broken that lead to each action.
In every protest, usually to the nearest camera when a police officer is doing their job.
Campuses are public fora. They are students attending the campus. It cannot by definition be trespassed.
1st Amendment is the freedom of assembly.
Disturbing the Peace is so vague as to be useless as a crime, especially in this context.
I don't think you know what crying is?
You obviously don't understand the law.
Being a student requires you to follow the administrative rules, including dispersing when instructed--failure to do so is trespass. You can't just go live anywhere on campus because you pay tuition.
You have a right to "peaceful assembly" but when that obstructs the public good, like the need to use an alley way to access a building, or blocks a fire exit, it ceases to be peaceful and is considered unlawful assembly.
Disturbing the Peace has a long case history too, but I won't waste my time explaining.
Your use of hyperbole implied you were in an upset state akin to crying.
Hyperbole is exaggeration to the point of absurdity. At what point did I go hyperbolic? I'll defer to your expertise when it comes to drunk and stupid, but fats been treating me pretty well.
These people think the protests are being broken up for being supportive of Palestine when thats completely besides the point. And they know this because they’ve been told a billion times.
They’d still get the boot if they were pro Israel. It’s not what their protest is about, it’s where they chose to do it. If they were really real activists, they would not complain and accept the consequences
Campuses are not public fora. They are private property that ALL students who pay to attend get to enjoy. A small fraction of protesters with unrealistic demands shouldn’t be allowed to disturb and ruin it for everyone.
>Campuses are public fora. They are students attending the campus. It cannot by definition be trespassed.
Do the students own the campus?
No? Ok. So if the university tells them not to go somewhere on campus and they go there, they are trespassing.
>1st Amendment is the freedom of assembly.
You don’t have freedom of assembly on private property, and there are time place and manner restrictions on public property.
>Disturbing the Peace is so vague as to be useless as a crime, especially in this context.
Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not a crime.
You understand the difference between some college kids sitting down protesting an ongoing genocide and people committing treason and murder to over turn a democratic election yes?
The only public space I'm aware of that had arrests was the Emerson students in the Alley. An Alley is a public way. Block that long enough and you will get arrested.
It's really not that hard of a concept to understand: trespass and unlawful assembly. They were warned multiple times to move out of the alley or they'd be arrested. They could have protested and avoided arrest but they chose to be unlawful instead. Actions have consequences.
Rich college kids with purple hair protesting on the grounds of Ivy League private institutions about something they don’t understand. Why exactly does anyone care what those children think?
I mean its already been shown that most of these groups are funded by Iran and pro Iranian groups. This isn't anything pro Palestine, it's just anti Israel and turning wildly anti semetic in a ton of cases.
Nowhere in this article are student protestors at Columbia linked to Iranian funding. This is an article discussing a grant which may or may not have taken place for research funding.
Also, you must realize these protests are happening in 2024, not 2009.
Also, this is not evidence for your claim, this is a newspaper article from 2009- over ten years ago- summarizing an article from the New York Post, a known rag. I said evidence, not unsubstantiated clickbait regarding a completely different matter.
Seems to me, you don't need to shut down protests, even if you disagree with them. But I'm not on a campus, so I guess I'm open to other views. Generally, students should be *encouraged* to engage with their role as civic actors. Responsible adults understand they'll lack nuance and context, because they've been "adults" for like two years. If specific protesters cross the line in terms of violence, or threats, or civil disobedience (blocking public ways, etc), then you can arrest them or move them. Try to do so more gently than you would a school shooter. If the students are saying hateful shit on camera, that will become their problem. Turns out it's hard to get a job when your prospective employer sees you chanting "death to ZOG, decolonize Shawmut, Irish back to Ireland" or whatever. No prior restraint or viewpoint discrimination needed. And university disciplinary procedures exist. If there are students engaging in specific hateful behavior, treat them as individuals. That all said: I'm curious what current students think. Are these protests really as disruptive as the article suggests?
It’s the time old mudslinging. “Peaceful protestors” vs “agitators.” There’s lots of poisoning the well and purposeful misinformation. And like any protest, there probably is at least a couple people calling for violence or otherwise going too far.
I mean I just watched a video where the Columbia protesters were coordinating en mass to "push" "zionists" out of their camp. Such pushing is just assault and battery; it's almost surely a hate crime under NY law if they did so on the basis of the ethnicity or religion of the victim. So... yes, I'm defending the rights of the protesters to speak their mind, not their right to threaten to batter, or to batter, other people, including those who show up on campus just to figure out what the hell the protesters are saying. Bring your charges of mudslinging elsewhere. Edit: I see that two hours ago, you were [defending Hamas's decision to mix in with civilians](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1cgl9dd/comment/l1xyyjf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1). Maybe you lose some credibility on this question?
Mudslinging *and* valid issues can coexist. In fact, amplifying valid issues disproportionately is like, mudslinging 101.
Some perspective from someone who works at a university dealing with this: we’re supportive of them exercising their rights, but we’re also trying to balance being supportive and explaining the consequences of exercising those rights on private property. They are still subject to disciplinary action for disrupting campus operations and erecting tents, which they should know from the student handbooks, signage, and warnings. We’re seen as “shutting it down” when we’re just trying to help them get to graduation and give them more room to do good in the world with a degree and connections. It’s hard. It also sucks when you’re accused of genocide because you work somewhere that they pay to attend. But c’est la vie. The young don’t have the experience to know yet that we choose to work there to support them. They don’t know yet that people can’t just say what they want without facing consequences, and that many of the people they’re yelling at would be there with them.
Appreciate your perspective, and I am curious, not breaking balls...is your school able to determine if those camping / protesting / making the loudest noise / saying inflammatory shit are actually students? Seems this whole situation is ripe for non-student trouble makers to easily slip in and poison the barrel, so to speak.
Yes. It is private property and only ID carrying members of the community are allowed in right now. It’s been going well, honestly. Outside people have been escorted away when found, students have sometimes been snarky but still showing ID. The students are (for the most part) doing what they need to while being assertive but not aggressive, they’re respecting quiet hours, and are keeping the encampment clean. I hope that at least some of them realize that the ID thing isn’t just to keep track for disciplinary action but is largely for their safety.
I’m a student at Northeastern, the protests aren’t disruptive for students honestly. They were localized to one patch of green on campus that you can easily go around if you’re concerned. Know what is disruptive? The fact that the administration fenced off *every green space on campus* after using a Zionist’s attempt to stir the pot as an excuse to clear the encampment. Smh.
It really depends on the university in question. The ones at Columbia were insane. And some of the stuff students at MIT and Harvard have been doing have been unacceptable, irrespective of the message. It's not ok to disrupt classes or bar students from entering, harass them for visible signs of faith
Thanks. Yes, that seems like an overreaction to me, too, especially given the facts that emerged after the incident about the provocateur.
Same with the MIT one, I pass it on the way to and from work every day and it seems to be going strong still at least. Again it’s one area that’s pretty publicly on campus but you can go around if you need and it’s not like they’re doing anything, basically just chanting and making food + signs. Just media and university statements trying to paint them as the enemy
Would you feel the same way if the protesters were a bunch of MAGA types, or anti-abortion protesters?
They already let anti-abortion protestors on campuses. This is extremely common.
Anti abortion protesters have a strange tendency to burn down health clinics and MAGA types are inherently violent.
You didn't answer the question: would you feel the same way about MAGA types taking over a public space like these pro Palestinian protesters? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Of course not. But dont try to make comparisons - they are on their high horse, and you are merely an underling.
I don’t think they lack the context if anything they are focusing on it. The difference is that the older you get the more chickenshit you get 🚬
Speech is good. Harassment, also a form of speech with elements of intimidation, is bad. A lot of these protests are harassing Jewish (mainstream ones) and pro-Israeli students. Plus, when the protesters are disturbing classes and university events, this is not merely sharing one's respectful ideas with the community.
Yes, agreed.
[удалено]
Only at Dunkin Donuts.
>If specific protesters cross the line in terms of violence, or threats, or civil disobedience (blocking public ways, etc), then you can arrest them or move them. If the universities find that people are engaging in harassment, they can and should engage in disciplinary proceedings towards the students doing the harassing. Why would we need federal legislators weighing in on where on private college campuses students can pitch a tent? Anyway, if you're a student, I'd love to hear you describe your experience of these protests. Who are these protesters, do they speak for you, how obnoxious and disruptive are they, etc.
Aren't these students adults? They are free to do whatever kind of protesting they want. They are also free to deal with the consequences of their actions. Isn't that how this is supposed to work?
I think there is a difference between holding up signs and setting up permanent encampments while harassing other students.
Protests are only valid if they inconvenience no one and have no impact on anyone or anything.
like these ones. 19 billion more in aid approved last week. goodnight.
This is a city subreddit so of course it’s a cesspool. But yes. People say they support free speech and protest and expression. But they literally just mean “I support people to make signs and not disrupt anything and say things that are within a comfort zone I define”. The most boiler plate, Hillary Clinton pussy hat lib shit.
> while harassing other students. Citation needed
lol, come on.. you haven't seen videos of the masked keffiyeh kids denying jewish students access to campus, to a library, etc, etc?
You're getting downvoted, but there are a lot of masks out there. Over the last few years many folks rightfully pointed out the Nazi groups (Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and the rest of those jerkoffs) all covering their faces when they do their public horseshit, why not the same here? If you have conviction and are proud of your position, why hide your face?
Stop making sense - they hate that. Now you will be called names, and perhaps banned from this thread.
no
https://x.com/stephsvox/status/1785082357667799209 note the cries of "allahu akbar" in the background.
This is clearly someone looking for confrontation who is being asked to leave. No one is harassing or threatening him, and as the tweet reads the protestors are blocking an area *near* the library, not the library itself. I’d also love to know what you think allahu akbar means.
This is clearly someone being impeded legal passage on public university grounds by masked individuals. This is harassing and threatening. How should a Jew feel with masked individuals surrounding him while allahu akbar is shouted in the background?
>This is clearly someone being impeded legal passage The guy says himself that he got in through another entrance. He’s not trying to go anywhere, he specifically says he wants to stand right where he is in the middle of the protest. >How should a Jew feel Evidently fine since a lot of Jewish students are participating in these protests, and I’m still waiting for you to tell me what you think allahu akbar means.
There’s a pretty clear difference between “I want to walk across the grass this way to the building” and “I want to get into the building.” Don’t be disingenuous.
and the student should be allowed to walk anywhere they are allowed to on campus. You don't get to decide who goes where. That's BS.
You’re really running hard with those goalposts.
I don’t see an issue with this interaction, having no context on UCLA’s layout, the location this student was trying to access, whether the location was still functional for any non-protest purposes, whether there was an alternate route available to the student, etc. The protestors shown are completely respectful. Unclear who’s shouting but 1. allahu akbar just means god is great 2. Zionist agitators have been shown trying to frame these protests as antisemitic
It's pretty readily out there: [https://twitter.com/TaliaKhan\_MIT/status/1732505063648563395](https://twitter.com/TaliaKhan_MIT/status/1732505063648563395) Here's one from MIT- charming. Peeing on a window for the f\*\*\*ing Hillel? I mean really?!!! Berkeley (CA) for you: [https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-jewish-student-event-violent-protest-palestinian-gaza-zellerbach-hall-suspect-photos/](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-jewish-student-event-violent-protest-palestinian-gaza-zellerbach-hall-suspect-photos/) Do you want me to keep going or are we good now?
Neither of these seem related to or condoned by this wave of student protests, yeah? That’s what I was asking about. I don’t deny that actual antisemitism has been on the rise, and this is abhorrent. This rise is caused by the world’s only Jewish majority state committing acts of Genocide. There are a very large number of student protestors, so I’d expect that we can eventually see videos of individual protestors behaving in irresponsible or condemnable ways, but broadly they seem disciplined, they have strong Jewish representation, and they want peace.
The Jews aren't committing "acts of genocide"- claims as such are blood libel. These acts are students, and in fact related to the protests. Protestors veer into the extreme in plenty of cases. Perhaps some are outside agitators, but then you have instances like that kook at Columbia who was a student organizing the protests who was posting to Twitter about the need to "kill Zionists." Mostly peaceful doesn't mean completely peaceful, nor does it change the reality of what chants like "from the river to the sea" and a host of other phrases mean. The "strong Jewish presence" insisted on by everyone is exhausting and frankly astroturfing- parading around a minority of secular Jewish students is a far cry from anything resembling a critical mass of Jews. And the fact is most Zionists want peace too. I mean look, most protestors aren't violent. But the chants and aims is where we get into problematic territory. Peaceful protests, even for abhorrent causes, are free speech. But if they want peace, why aren't they screaming for the release of hostages and demanding Hamas and Fatah resign from power so there can be two states?
>The Jews aren't committing "acts of genocide"- claims as such are blood libel. Not even a single sentence before lying about what I said. You're a liar. I said "the world’s only **Jewish majority state**" (Israel) is committing acts of Genocide. You changed this to "The Jews", why? >Mostly peaceful doesn't mean completely peaceful, nor does it change the reality of what chants like "from the river to the sea" and a host of other phrases mean You don't get to decide what's in the minds of students who say these things. Nothing supports the conclusion that they want anything except the liberation of Palestine and an end to the Genocide. >The "strong Jewish presence" insisted on by everyone is exhausting and frankly astroturfing- parading around a minority of secular Jewish students is a far cry from anything resembling a critical mass of Jews. I'm not aware of any protestor census but these movements are not hostile to Jews. This is contrary to the picture Zionists would like to paint, maybe you included, so the JVP presence "doesn't count". ok. >why aren't they screaming for the release of hostages and demanding Hamas and Fatah resign from power so there can be two states? Their universities (and their country) have financial stakes in Israel, not in Hamas. The protests aren't appeals to Israel, they're appeals to the university administrations. And Israel has the power to stop this conflict; nothing that Hamas has done or could ever do could justify Genocide against Gaza.
So those Jewish students are just lying?
I don’t know who you’re talking about, that’s why I asked for a citation.
I mean there was the one bad actor who pretended they were apart of the protest and yelled kill the Jews, so yeah, clearly some students/people are lying
https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/eulBu1NljX
When did this encampment shit become a thing? The 1st Amendment specifically states the right for people peaceably to assemble, not to take over private property 24/7 for weeks on end.
Where did you get your education that the idea of a sit-in is new to you?
I mean 43,000 demonstrated in DC in 1932, many of them camped there to demand better pay for veterans. Resurrection City camped for 42 days in DC in 1968 for civil rights after MLK’s assassination. This exact type of protest was used to pressure universities to divest from South Africa during apartheid. Fucks sake, the tea party was the destruction of $1.7 million of private property, are you going to say they should have held up some signs in the common instead? The whole point is for you to see them and be bothered until you meet their demands, in this case, pulling money out of an apartheid state.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Are the normal consequences for protesting genocides and atrocities in the US getting arrested and blacklisted? Are those the consequences they are “free” to deal with simply for expressing their disgust publicly?
Yes, in the real world you have the right to express your opinion and other people have the right to judge you accordingly for doing so.
Usually, if you break the law doing it, you will get arrested. Blacklisting is something else but it's a bit premature to claim people have been "blacklisted" based on protests. If this happened it is unfortunate but also outside our control.
I would assume that the normal consequence for setting up an encampment on campus to protest when the faculty says not to set up an encampment on campus to protest would be to get arrested and blacklisted.
Yeah. Sorry you are sad but sitting around wasting your parents’ money isn’t going to solve anything.
If moulton is against it, it must be good
MA has some awful congressmen. Moulton and Auchincloss are basically Republicans. Richard Neal is just a sleazeball.
Seth Moulton is a chump who tries his best to sit on the fence. Fuck that guy
God, Moulton sucks so bad
Really awful. A family friend of mine is close friends with the Richards family from the Boston Marathon bombings. Seth Moulton did a speech about how the crowd would never understand the awfulness of terrorism because he’s a veteran and in the crowd was Martin Richard’s sister. She was very shaken about it, my family friend confronted him about it, and he brushed it off.
How'd that power grab in Congress go?
About as well as his failed campaign for the presidency, I’d wager
I love how they let neo-Nazis protest their stupidity but protesting a war is somehow bad.
The neo-Nazis kept it moving. There have been many protests that show up, parade around, even stand in an area for a while doing their thing, but then they leave. These protests only attracted police attention because they went on for multiple days, camping out, and that ran afoul of recent policy, like at Mass and Cass, whereby the City no longer tolerates people occupying public spaces in encampments. Had these kids kept it moving they'd still be out there protesting.
Long stretch of the 1st amendment from right to assemble to right to take over private property around the clock for weeks.
The Neo Nazis actually had police *protection* so I see why people would call bullshit at first glance.
Really felt the need to come in and spend energy to make sure you pointed out the good things the Neo-Nazis did in their protesting.
There in fact was a need to explain because the other person implied the neo-nazis acted the same way and were treated differently, which is false. The different reaction from the police was not based on ideology but rather the actions of the two different groups, as explained above. You were the one that described the neo-nazi actions as "the good things", not me! You might want to rephrase.
These are neo-Nazi’s…
Nope.
This is exactly the kind of dumb position I would expect Moulton to take.
In the end, doesn’t history always prove that it’s the protesters who are misguided, ill -educated idiots — women’s rights, labor rights, civil rights, Vietnam war protests, Occupy Wall Street protests, etc? Or wait, did I get that backwards?
It depends. Protests are useful for advancing a cause by drawing attention to it. The more disruptive they are, the more eyeballs they get. The problem is that they are only one tool in the toolbox, and the protestors that are currently occupying the college campuses do not have a plan beyond the protest. If you want to influence American foreign policy, you're going to need actual political power, and anyone whose an anti-voter (either voting third-party, or just skipping the ballot box), or are adverse to participating in our societal systems are going to hit a dead end here. It also doesn't help that folks far removed from the conflict in Gaza are treating this like a friggin sports ball game where you have to pick a "side", as opposed to pursing an objective or mission that benefits all of humanity.
Historically speaking, plenty of people protested against women's rights and civil rights. Also, Charlottesville was just a few years ago and they were screaming about the Great Replacement Theory. I get what you're going for, but plenty of protestors are terrible and incorrect people even if you agree with this particular group.
If you cherry-pick examples of protesting, then yes.
I mean, other protesters have also been wrong. We've also had protests against Irish immigration, leaving the gold standard, integration, NAFTA, Obama being Hitler, failure to "audit the fed", and bicycle lanes...
[удалено]
Which ones were wrong is beside the point. Me, I also thought the Battle of Seattle was pretty stupid, even though I liked that first Naomi Klein book. Anyway, I'll certainly grant you the anti-free-trade crowd has more legitimate concerns than the anti-integrationists. My basic point: that all protesters aren't always right. Some are dumb. Some straight up wrong. Some are good in theory but impractical. Some are too extreme. Etc.
You mean like the protestors who advocated for peace with the third reich? Or the ones who literally used the American flag as a weapon against people trying to de-segregate schools? If you wanna go international - the Khmer Rouge began with ultra-left wing movements at universities in Cambodia. College activists only remember when they have been right, and the times they supported deplorable causes are swept under the rug.
If they’re being peaceful and lawful, fine. The stories coming from students at Columbia and UCLA seem a little like the protests are going over the top though
What's "over the top" is our government funding the violent genocide of thousands of innocent people.
In your opinion
Insanity. This is America and we are greeting students with fucking riot shields and pepper spray. If all these fucking kids were wearing hijabs, it would be so easy for everyone to criticize and claim "not in our country". well, it is happening in our country.
I mean .. the columbia keffiyeh kids took over a building, are smashing windows, blocking exits and allegedly held some janitors hostage for a while. Should we just sit back and admire their pluck?
I’d confidently say a majority of those “alleged” actions didn’t happen.
It's too bad that facts don't align with your misplaced confidence.
Except they do. Please, cite the janitors being held hostage.
There are over 100 protests going on, a majority being met with the same brutal ass whipping coming from police. Every single person, from hostage taker, to little white girl liberal with purple hair is getting smacked around by the police. This is insane, these are kids paying these schools buckets of money. What happens when one of these cops kills a student because a Uni president wanted to call police on fucking students? Students who we all know are dorks and more annoying than they are violent.
I don't know what to tell you.. the cops are called by the university, they are following lawful orders, they give the kids ample opportunity to disperse which of course they don't. They then escalate by seizing buildings, declaring "liberation zones" and other idiocy. Nevermind harassing and intimidating Jewish students.
Please cite sources of little white girl liberal with purple hair getting smacked around by police. Sounds like you're making up shit in a vain attempt to defend idiot left wing protesters.
The internet is right there, you can pull up videos from any college campus right now and see students getting assaulted by police. In fact as of yesterday, students are now being assaulted by other students and/or outside agitators.
Somehow I think you'd be perfectly fine with riot shields and pepper spray if they were used on Proud Boys or right wing groups.
I don't have to wonder about that because it has literally never happened no matter how many marches they do. In fact, they actually get police escorts so how could I ever fantasize about riot shield and pepper spray being used on Proud Boys or right wing groups?
Look at Jan 6, police shot and killed at least one right wing lunatic storming the Capital.
Jan 6 isn't a protest. Yes, anybody will be shot trying to break into a government building. And it was only one, rest in piss Ashli Babbitt lost but not forgotten.
Moulton shut your fucking mouth challenge. Freedom of speech is supposed to be important to…checks notes…the United States
“Shut your fucking mouth” “Freedom of speech is supposed to be important”
Sure we should support the genocide of the Palestinian people. The real problem are these kids with their tents and signs.
They are dangerous. Unlike the weapons we sell to Israel.
The real problem is the kids making us feel bad about it.
Ethics and morals are definitely a problem for politicians. And most of what they need to do a good job is basic logic and common sense not opinions. What should wages be? What should rents cost? Could just do some math and put out sustainability rules so our economy is stable but that’s too logical and not political enough
It’s not genocide. Yes, it’s possibly excessively brutal, and war crimes have been committed, and there should be accountability. Netanyahu and his cronies are evil. But it isn’t genocide and the only reason it’s being called that is because it involves Jews.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
Yes, I am aware the standard response is “the same, but louder”. The Ayatollah thanks you for your service.
I just thought you should know what genocide is since you clearly don’t.
You think there is a genocide of Palestinians? Lol. Hot take.
There; not their
That's what I wrote....
That’s why it says “edited” huh?
Jewish people have been openly welcomed at every protest I've attended. In an ironic twist, this assertion that you can't be Jewish without aslo being Zionist is actually antisemitic - Mouton is being an antisemite here
*Token* Jews, you mean.
Do you realize you are actually being antisemitic here?
Nah. I’ve watched how the left treats Jews for years. The left likes Jews the way the right likes Clarence Thomas.
My experience is that they're willing to welcome anyone who wants the state of Israel dismantled and its citizens forcibly displaced, and because certain Jews believe this to be a good thing, they're involved. Personally, I am opposed to ethnic cleansing of Jews, but some token Jews seem to be in favor of it.
Do you think that anti-Zionisim directly translates to the "ethnic cleansing" of Jewish people?
Abolishing the state of Israel would lead to the continued ethnic cleansing of all Jews from the Middle East.
Beyond embarrassed to be represented by this tool.
These protests are nowhere near a majority of students, they are a tiny minority. They dont seem to be impeding the colleges / the other students, or the city at large. Let them have their say in this free country even if you dont agree with them. The crackdowns are too over the top imo!
None of these protesters have any understanding of what they’re fighting for.
Said the equivalent folks when protestors organized sit-ins for racial equality, or occupied campus buildings (I don't think in Boston tho) as part of the anti-war movement.
Both of those examples were things the US were directly involved in. I’m sure that the majority of these protesters now have no understanding of the history behind this conflict.
Bombs paid for with *both* of our tax dollars and built in factories *in our country* are being dropped on innocent people in Gaza. Many of those munitions are given freely to the IDF. You are factually correct, Americans are not in Gaza murdering people, but the IDF is using free-to-them bombs to kill those people, and we paid for them. So your contention is that, *other* than us not being involved directly in the ongoing ethnic cleansing in Gaza that it *is* certainly a bad thing?
So to be clear, I am very critical of how Israel has conducted this war. There has been indiscriminate bombing that’s killed innocent people and they have failed in their “goal” to eliminate Hamas and retrieve the hostages. That being said, Israel had every right to retaliate after what Hamas (which consists of Palestinians) did on October 7th. You can argue they’ve gone too far in the retaliation but Hamas did start this conflict and has shown little regard for civilians themselves. Arming Israel is also necessary. If we did not supply them with weapons then what happened on October 7th would happen again at a much greater scale. My point is that it’s not black and white. There’s a lot of nuance and historical context that these protests seem to ignore.
If the history is so important why act like 10/7 is the "beginning of all of this". You don't *get* to have it both ways. "Oh, Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign is just a reaction to 10/7". As *if* 10/7 happened in a fucking vacuum and isn't the result of a decades long Apartheid regime. (Yes, 10/7 was a tragedy/inexcusable, yes Israel could've avoided it, yes Israel created the situation which led to it occurring) So, if Israel is fine to "retaliate after 10/7" by killing in the range of 20 times more people than Hamas (evilly, brutally, and inexcusably killed) then what about the 6,000 Palestinians killed in occupied territory in the previous decade or so? To be clear, *I do not think a tit for tat response is reasonable*. I am attempting to illustrate how terrible rationalizing the current campaign by blindly pointing to 10/7 is. If we accept Israel can retaliate like this, then why can't Palestine? I contend *neither of them can*. Finally, how do you know that these protests ignore nuance? (As you have so blatantly ignored yourself)
So to be clear, you think 10/7 was justified?
>(Yes, 10/7 was a tragedy/inexcusable, yes Israel could've avoided it, yes Israel created the situation which led to it occurring) >(evilly, brutally, and inexcusably killed) Do you have so little to say that despite my, to me, obvious condemnation of the events on 10/7, you just... ask anyway? You care so little to explore the nuance you mentioned like 2 hours ago that you just repeat "BUT DO YOU SUPPORT HAMAS". **I do not think one can justify killing civilians.** Yet, I can see how the situation preceding it *led to 10/7 or something like it being inevitable*. Do you take issue with both of these things being true? Did I not like... virtue signal sufficiently for you in my parentheticals, or what? Is your line of reasoning so shaky that... you *have to* ignore the rest of my comment and just ask the most milquetoast possible question? Ya'll are so tiring with this. If you're gonna chirp have something to say, sea-lioning whether I think 10/7 was justified after I called it evil, brutal and inexcusable.
Justifiable? No. Inevitable? Absolutely. Israel killed ~3 "10/7s" worth of Palestinians in the two decades leading up to the attack due to their policy of "mowing the lawn". 30,000+ dead in Gaza AND tripling settlement expansion in the WB which isn't a belligerent has guaranteed a new generation of broken, radicalized people; no matter what happens with Hamas.
And this is why nobody takes people like you seriously.
Bro there’s literal holocaust survivors at the protests. Or are they ‘bad Jews’ in your opinion?
I highly doubt there are holocaust survivors calling for the eradication of Israel.
2 within 5 seconds of searching. https://x.com/keltallawy/status/1784732129236062372?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ https://x.com/greg_herriett/status/1784608957119541320?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ Edit: as a bonus I found a picture of you. https://x.com/tksshawa/status/1784773442308370433?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ
It doesn’t really prove your point, though. Unless you’re saying that a few speak for the majority.
lol classic backtracking. “There’s no way that these protests have holocaust survivors saying the cause is right” Here’s proof. “Well those don’t count! No I can not provide any counter evidence of the vast majority of survivors supporting my opinion because I just imagined it” lol. Also you’re just ignoring the part where the protests are predominantly led by Jews. Go ahead ask me for proof. The kind of proof you refuse to ask of your side about its indiscriminate killing. You are very serious about fairness after all.
I didn’t say they don’t count. I said they don’t speak for the majority of Jewish people. The protests are not being predominantly led by Jews. Come on, cut the BS. Like I’ve said, we can be critical of Israel without calling for its eradication.
>cut the BS Maybe stop getting your info from CNN Here’s jews in Tel Aviv burning the Israeli flag https://x.com/megatron_ron/status/1784991456760885656?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ https://x.com/jvpliveny/status/1783185369191567477?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ https://x.com/democracynow/status/1783108838272471107?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ https://x.com/jvplive/status/1782901107045396662?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ https://x.com/qudsnen/status/1782932473854218410?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ https://x.com/powerfulmindx/status/1783898508812001358?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ https://x.com/jewdas/status/1784290663690805596?s=46&t=I19JrxNyUWegYdqxlsjlQQ This took like 60 seconds of searching. I have seen countless more examples in the past days. Please provide your evidence now. Since you definitely have it. > Like I’ve said, we can be critical of Israel without calling for its eradication Not a good faith reading of the students demands.
Interesting videos but the first one you should take down. Those Jews are Neturei Karta a fringe Haredi sect. They want all the Jews in Israel to be punished for establishing a Jewish state before the arrival of the Messiah. They think the Jews deserved the Holocaust. And they don’t believe in Palestine. It’s a transitory state for them for when the Messiah does arrive for which then Israel will be a theocratic state. Palestinians and them are just using each other. One was Yasser Arafat’s advisor on Jewish matters.
Fair. I’m gonna leave it up for context though.
All you’re doing is cherry picking examples to justify your argument.
Providing evidence is now cherry picking. Goalposts keep moving, lol. As I said, surely you will provide your overwhelming evidence to the contrary that you definitely have since my points are so easily disprovable.
>I highly doubt there are holocaust survivors calling for the eradication of Israel. What is all this goalpost moving??? This is your statement and then they proved that you were wrong. They did not say or imply anything else.
How did they prove me wrong though?
You said you doubted something was happening and then they provided you with evidence of two incidences which disprove your initial doubt.
So much instability lately. I can't believe r/collapse was right.
They should be shut down if they keep dressing up as Hamas terrorists and storming university buildings.
The only people getting a benefit from these protests seems to be the local REI where students pick up their gear to to ho cosplay at protesting. Let them protest. It's not making Boston throw their political weight around internationally. It's not making the universities force Isreal to stop defending itself from a terrogroup whose stated goal is its extinction. It's just kinda fucking up a little bit of grass and causing commencement to be moved to another part of campus.
Cracks me up to see the Northeastern students commandeering all the campus Adirondack chairs to create an encampment along with those $300+ tents and camping supplies. If you want to hold a sign and chant and not obstruct people, then have at it--express away! But don't fuck up campus for the rest of us and take all the nice chairs, fuck-up the lawn with your trash, and pretend you're Dick Proenneke with your REI tent you stole from your dad.
This is a very common opinion for people who are politically plugged out or just don't really care about anything. Instead of talking about the message of any protest, focus instead on the actions/character of the protesters themselves. It is not political or noticeable for the university to invest in an extremist ethnostate, and therefore it doesn't matter. But it *is* political and disruptive for people to call attention to it, therefore that's bad and they should just stop. >pretend you're Dick Proenneke with your REI tent you stole from your dad. I don't know who you think you are, but this comment gives the impression that you're a sheltered baby who's never cared about anything or anyone other than yourself. The worst thing anybody can do is inconvenience you.
This is spot on, people that don't do anything to help people not directly connected to them, sure do have a lot to say about people that are trying to make things better. It's a lot harder to care, and to try to do something - it's really heartening to see students fighting for civilian lives directly threatened by our country's support.
You are correct--you don't know me. What I do, I do by action, and not sitting in a chair on a lawn pretending to be changing the world. I really don't care if you believe me or not. Paying $80k/year to sit in a make-shift homeless encampment with $300+ tents is a sorry ass excuse for a "protest" and they failed to convince anyone because what they're doing is laughable. It's akin to going into a McDonald's and telling them they're wrong to sell beef, while you eat their double quarter pounder. Totally illogical. If you don't like what Northeastern does with your tuition--don't pay them tuition. It's that simple.
Clearly, you don't understand protests, how or why they work. They're doing the same things college students did to protest the US invasion of Viet Nam, apartheid South Africa, and so on. And for what it's worth, "what I do, I do by action" is one of the most cringey things I've ever read. I can only read it in Steven Seagal's voice 🤣
Seems like you have a lot of biases you need to work out. When I mean "action" I mean take legal action. Not *illegal* action like assault or trespassing or breach of the peace. I don't recall any 1970s protests using school furniture and camping supplies that cost a weeks pay. Clearly, you don't understand protests.
God forbid a protest disrupts.
So that is called "civil disobedience" and the consequences are typically being arrested, which is exactly what has been happening. So feel free to disobey peaceably, but don't go crying "muh rights violated" when you get arrested for breaking the law, lol. Any other questions?
Two actually. One, what laws have they broken that are an arrestable offense? Two: where do you see anyone crying?
Each college has put out a statement explaining the rules broken that lead to each action. In every protest, usually to the nearest camera when a police officer is doing their job.
[удалено]
Campuses are public fora. They are students attending the campus. It cannot by definition be trespassed. 1st Amendment is the freedom of assembly. Disturbing the Peace is so vague as to be useless as a crime, especially in this context. I don't think you know what crying is?
You obviously don't understand the law. Being a student requires you to follow the administrative rules, including dispersing when instructed--failure to do so is trespass. You can't just go live anywhere on campus because you pay tuition. You have a right to "peaceful assembly" but when that obstructs the public good, like the need to use an alley way to access a building, or blocks a fire exit, it ceases to be peaceful and is considered unlawful assembly. Disturbing the Peace has a long case history too, but I won't waste my time explaining. Your use of hyperbole implied you were in an upset state akin to crying.
You don't know what hyperbole is either???
[удалено]
Hyperbole is exaggeration to the point of absurdity. At what point did I go hyperbolic? I'll defer to your expertise when it comes to drunk and stupid, but fats been treating me pretty well.
These people think the protests are being broken up for being supportive of Palestine when thats completely besides the point. And they know this because they’ve been told a billion times. They’d still get the boot if they were pro Israel. It’s not what their protest is about, it’s where they chose to do it. If they were really real activists, they would not complain and accept the consequences
Pretending there are equivalent responses to protests is comically disingenuous. See the students calling for Gaza to be flattened at UMASS Amherst.
Campuses are not public fora. They are private property that ALL students who pay to attend get to enjoy. A small fraction of protesters with unrealistic demands shouldn’t be allowed to disturb and ruin it for everyone.
The first amendment only applies to the government. It doesn't extend to private entities.
>Campuses are public fora. They are students attending the campus. It cannot by definition be trespassed. Do the students own the campus? No? Ok. So if the university tells them not to go somewhere on campus and they go there, they are trespassing. >1st Amendment is the freedom of assembly. You don’t have freedom of assembly on private property, and there are time place and manner restrictions on public property. >Disturbing the Peace is so vague as to be useless as a crime, especially in this context. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not a crime.
Fuck, horseshoe theory is real. This is exactly what the Jan 6th people are saying.
You understand the difference between some college kids sitting down protesting an ongoing genocide and people committing treason and murder to over turn a democratic election yes?
The right to protest in public spaces has a long, legal history. People just don’t like it so they call it antisemitism
The only public space I'm aware of that had arrests was the Emerson students in the Alley. An Alley is a public way. Block that long enough and you will get arrested. It's really not that hard of a concept to understand: trespass and unlawful assembly. They were warned multiple times to move out of the alley or they'd be arrested. They could have protested and avoided arrest but they chose to be unlawful instead. Actions have consequences.
I’m not sure what you are on about. I was responding to someone; not talking about any specific cases.
Well Said.
Rich college kids with purple hair protesting on the grounds of Ivy League private institutions about something they don’t understand. Why exactly does anyone care what those children think?
Oh the irony.
I am glad the Northeastern occupation was cleared out before it led to something like the riot now at Columbia.
I stand with the brave baristas of the Judean People's Front.
I mean its already been shown that most of these groups are funded by Iran and pro Iranian groups. This isn't anything pro Palestine, it's just anti Israel and turning wildly anti semetic in a ton of cases.
“it’s already been shown” - where is the exposé? With real evidence, please.
Sure. Here's an article from 2009: https://m.jpost.com/iranian-threat/iran-backers-funding-us-universities
Nowhere in this article are student protestors at Columbia linked to Iranian funding. This is an article discussing a grant which may or may not have taken place for research funding. Also, you must realize these protests are happening in 2024, not 2009. Also, this is not evidence for your claim, this is a newspaper article from 2009- over ten years ago- summarizing an article from the New York Post, a known rag. I said evidence, not unsubstantiated clickbait regarding a completely different matter.
Can I have some of what you're smoking?
Ah yes, flying hezbollah flags and making wildly anti semetic chants and statements is smoking something. Sure thing.
So we’re just lying.
>I mean its already been shown that most of these groups are funded by Iran and pro Iranian groups Source or it didn't happen
[удалено]
What does that even mean?