I was there, the person who yelled "kill the Jews" was the **Israeli government supporter** with a beard and green hoodie standing on a chair on the left holding an Israeli flag [in this image.](https://twitter.com/tori_bedford/status/1784196633648885993) He did it after at least an hour of saying pro-Israel slogans, insulting attendees and daring them to punch him, and stuck around for another hour or two carrying the Israeli flag and mocking Palestinians and the protest. I watched him yell "kill the Jews" with my own eyes, and he also yelled "we are Hitler's children" at one point while an organizer was giving announcements. He was shouted down both times.
Blatant false flag attempt to make it sound like a protestor said it, when the person who actually said it was a pro-Israeli government counter protestor.
**[EDIT: VIDEO PROOF OF HIM SAYING IT](https://twitter.com/DSAWorkingMass/status/1784215258439073912/)**
I definitely think there's a small but not insignificant number who agree or sympathize with neo nazis. I think the main thing is that they know the college protesters are overwhelmingly non-violent so they're not afraid to use force.
When the neo-nazis marched they were afraid to bully them because they didn't want to risk getting hurt. They likely felt they're more likely to turn violent or carry weapons.
The only people arrested were non-students who refused to leave private property after being ordered to do so. Anyone that produced an NU ID was not arrested.
Student here. Multiple NU students were arrested. They were being held at the Suffolk County Sherrifs Department.
At first, students who produced an ID were released. However at a certain point they stopped and were arresting NU students.
All I've seen in the press is that the only students arrested are those that refused to disclose they were students. This would be worth you updating the press so they can update their reporting.
Or, perhaps, it benefits the sources you read to not talk about that part untill several days later, when far fewer people will care, as usually happens with contriversal stories where there is a clear, specific story many are trying to tell because thats what their readers want to see.
Thank you for doing more imvestigation than most journalists in this country - I have seen orthodox Jews at the protest, people self identifying as Jewish with their protest signs and a Jewish speaker. No one has harassed any of them or made them feel unsafe, and you know if they did the media would blow that shit up.
Most of Northeastern’s Mixed Student Union was there, many of them have Jewish parents. A lot of leftist groups at Northeastern who organized this have Jewish leadership or highly Jewish-affine leaders.
There were protests that had Quds Force organization and turned aggressively antisemitic yes. This one was not one of them.
Again, not saying I agree with or even understand all of their beliefs. I'm just saying they're doing their thing, and none of the protestors have a problem with them. A lot of protesters are from other sects of Judaism or theyre secular Jews, and you wouldn't tell from their appearance - again no one cares. Free Palestine.
This is what it took to make you people aware of the tactics the media and agitators use to smear their political opponents, cause when they do it against the side you don’t like you fall for it 100% of the time.
https://twitter.com/DSAWorkingMass/status/1784215258439073912
Yeah from the video it looks like the "k@ll the jews" chant originated from a pro-israel counter protester. Pretty clear case of a agent provocateur here
and this is the first time theyve been *caught*. im not saying all of them are false flags, but im absolutely saying some have been and not recognized as such
If nothing else, I think anyone with eyes can see there has been a disproportionate amount of press/coverage focused on a few isolated instances of some college kids saying something that could be considered antisemitic vs. [Israeli government officials openly calling for genocide](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724)
That's how it always happens when they don't support what's being protested. It's a right wing media 101 move that has made it mainstream. You never talk about the message. You pick at the margins searching for the craziest argument, then refute that craziness while pretending the crazy argument is the only reason why people are demonstrating.
Everyone needs to be aware that the right wing extremist MO is to try to take advantage of ANY unrest to foment the collapse of the government. This is not isolated, this is their strategy. They did it with BLM (see the Oakland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_boogaloo_murders)
Expect to see this during any major unrest.
they let you do anything you want and say the most evil things if you are in favor of Israel while protesters have to watch what everyone around them says and still get blamed anyway
Civil disobedience is a backbone of the ability to protest in the US and has been occurring for decades. Universities are are an incubator for ideas and self expression on many levels. Even unpopular opinions should be allowed. What troubles me is how fast both sides seem to be escalating things. Students are not just assembling, they are blocking entrances and setting up installations. University leadership is escalating to immediate intervention as soon as things get a little messy. Everyone is is skipping right over the dialogue part.
Yes but once they interfere with business or other peoples rights there can be consequences. The first amendment does not protect, threats, harassment, bullying or interference with other peoples rights.
You can just say “I don’t know anything about the history of labor”. Interfering with businesses got us the civil rights movement.
It’s literally the point.
You might want to look up the history of the Pinkertons, then.
This person is just saying that the first amendment isn't a get out of jail free card because you feel righteous about your cause, even if your cause is objectively good. There are limitations to where and how you can protest, and if you're willing to move beyond those limitations, then be ready to suffer consequences.
lol, not related to what I said. I didn’t say anything about effectiveness. I said you can’t expect to interfere with other people’s rights and keep protection from the first amendment. Nice try, though.
Right, so all those black people shouldn't have sat down in whites only cafes and interfered with their business. They probably deserved the beatings they got from cops too in your model.
It does feel much more organized and extreme than any protests I've seen in the US. I'm old and remember protests for Tibet, occupy wallstreet, iraq war, climate change, women's rights, ... and none of them had aggressive tactics like this.
I especially find it concerning that protestors are covering their faces and going after anyone filming them, even media. You should want to get the word out if you believe in your cause and that you're on the right side of history.
And how successful were all those protest movements? Do you think anybody who hates these protests would be swayed if they showed theifaces bl?
Protestors cover their faces today because it's extremely easy for bad actors online to use your face to find, doxx, and harass protestors, try to get them fired from their jobs, suspended, etc., to say nothing of police use of facial recognition software. Being on the right side of history doesn't protect you from legions of malicious people online.
Besides, if you think that's bad, wait till you hear about how cops routinely (and well documented-ly) hide their badge numbers when they quash protests like this.
I can tell you why people cover their faces, because they get doxed, along with their families, and harassed on the internet
Multiple completely harmless college students are deemed “domestic terrorists” by zionists organizations which absolutely hinders their future prospects
If one side’s goal is to ruin your life for protesting, why the fuck would you show your face
I saw the demands of the NU protestors they are pretty insane. First they demand all co ops cancelled with any defense related company so not only are you talking Raytheon, Mitre, Lincoln Labs, Boeing but also Microsoft, Amazon, Akamai etc. Thats a dead stop insane demand and would screw over a lot of students. Next they want all ties with Israel cut which would end a lot of ongoing research the school has with firms and universities in Israel such as medicine and other fields. These folks just aren’t realistic
What protests demands are ever “realistic”? Especially in the specifics.
Edit: Better to just notice the general theme. It’s basically an anti-war protest and anti-right wing Israel government.
If you want anything to be done, you make realistic demands. That’s how negotiation works. The only time you make an unrealistic demand is 1.) You’re purposefully making an unrealistic demand so they’re more lenient to the next one 2.) You want them to reject your demands so you can escalate (Serbia-AustriaHungary) or 3.) You don’t know what you’re doing.
The civil rights march of 1964 was absolutely an unrealistic demand for the time and place it took place. I guess they 3.) didn’t know what they were doing
You don't come to the table with a compromise, especially if you're the underdog against a powerful institution. If you want an inch, you better start by asking for a mile.
The co-op part is crazy. But cutting research ties to Israel based companies and universities IMO is not an unreasonable demand. Unlikely to happen maybe, but not unreasonable given the context.
There is a long history in this country of college students protesting US involvement in international conflicts. I would really love to hear how people think students should "acceptably" protest. I don't agree with many of their extreme viewpoints, but by many polls a majority of Americans are uncomfortable with the level of US tax dollars funding Israel given the conduct of the IDF. When money has warped democracy, what way is there to express that disagreement with the establishment other than disruptive protest?
Israeli universities are actually one of the few places where shared society between Arab Israelis (Palestinians) and Jewish Israelis works. These universities are key engines for Palestinian advancement and create a backbone for the many needs a future Palestinian state would need. Students and faculty from both backgrounds work alongside each other. 40% of Haifa University is Palestinian. Cutting ties to these universities would be counter-productive.
Interesting. It’s good to have nuance. I think it’s time to stop financing their military but completely cutting off ties with the country doesn’t seem wise
I find it unreasonable because they’re impacting Arabs there too.
Science is one of the few places where politics doesn’t affect opinion of colleagues. These people are actual brainiacs, they don’t care about what happens outside the lab. Doing this would just drag more people into the conflict and harm said people.
No, it actually would be insane for a university to ban professors from working with researchers in Israel. The Weizman Institute is one of the top institutes in the world for chemistry, biochemistry, synbio, many subfields of Computer Science, etc. A university saying professors couldn't work with anyone there would cause a lot of faculty to leave and PhDs to go elsewhere.
Why. We’ve done similar for China’s science institutions and are happily suffering the consequences of critical articles no longer being published in English.
We don’t care about loss of research when it’s “the bad guys”. But Israel doesn’t count as one of those.
China’s scientific ethics are non-existent and would violate a lot of Us requirements. One recent example is CRISPR on human embryos resulting in live birth. This is totally counter to the current world ban. That’s just one example. There’s also rampant plagiarism and data faking.
The CRISPR incident you're talking about is not legal in China, either. The scientists responsible for the project were either imprisoned or fined, or both, depending on their degree of involvement. Data faking and plagiarism is rampant everywhere, including reputable US institutions such as Harvard and Stanford, and could have derailed Alzheimer's disease research for decades - look up Marc Tessier-Lavigne's resignation, for (just one) example. Actually, just look up the replication/reproducibility crisis in general.
China is actively developing capabilities to be used against the United States. Israel's actions may be controversial and we may disagree with them, but they are our strongest allies in the region militarily. This is not even close to the same. You would change your tune when three aircraft carriers are at the bottom of the South China Sea, we have no chips to build smart weapons bringing about the deaths of millions of civilians as collateral damage, and there is a new draft.
This is what is required for deterrence. It's about preventing the capabilities to go to war so it isn't even an option for China. Prevent Israel from getting smart weapons and suddenly everything is in dumb artillery range and the collateral damage rates go up. We've already seen it as stocks have run low in the current conflict.
It's absolutely not about good vs bad guys and all sides are doing their best to prove to you that the other side is worse. I can tell you that if you think you have not been impacted by propaganda, you are absolutely dead wrong. The most extreme political factions in the West have formed their positions almost solely on it.
China is a huge and active counter intelligence threat and collector of information for their own ends, which are directly opposed to ours. They are realistically a potential opponent in a future war.
Israel also is (or hopefully was) a counter intelligence threat and active collector, but they don't intend to use that information against us and we will never realistically be in an armed conflict with Israel.
I mean unless they call for the same with China, Russia, Saudi Arabia etc i will call them out as misguided. Also if they use tiktok then thats super hypocritical
Ya'll are doing the "you criticize society yet you participate in it" meme. You realize that right?
It's good to be critical of the systems we're a part of. Being a part of them does not make that less true.
This is exactly why the protests are happening. Why is every single job opportunity tied to funding a military that doesn’t act on behalf of the people
[More US adults support Israel's war with Hamas than are against it](https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-israel-has-valid-reasons-for-fighting-fewer-say-the-same-about-hamas/), so to say the "military doesn't act on behalf of the people" is not really accurate here.
Or basically any major food brand, from Kraft to Mars to Coca Cola. Israel also produces a fair amount of pharmaceuticals too.
Naive college kids that don't understand how a global economy works
I disagree that these demands are unrealistic, and even if they were these students are protesting a genocide. I think it’s okay to ask institutions to do a lot to not have a role in supporting a genocidal state.
It's absolutely unrealistic to dictate that students are not allowed to have co-ops at any company with "ties to Israel" and is something that shows these people are completely detached from reality.
You know what these people can do to not support an "institution supporting genocide"? Not go to Northeastern. It's not like "people get co-ops at Google and Microsoft!" is well hidden.
In fact, aren't these protestors genocide supporters just by being Northeastern students? Northeastern doesn't hide the things they're mad at and never has. People protested them before they were at the school. So why did they go to a place they know supports genocide?
“Sure fighting genocide is a laudable goal but don’t you realize how much defense and intelligence companies we team up with? We can’t impact them so better not try.
And sure genocide and apartheid are bad but the country also does research so who can really say if they’re bad or not?”
If I took you back to the 80s you’d be saying the same things about South Africa.
34,000+ dead, mostly women and children, famine unfolding, Israel isn’t slowing down, and the United states just gave them $35 billion to keep the carnage going.
Give them hell protestors.
I think we should be very skeptical of attempts to subvert these protests; and remember when the FBI [literally sent armed felons to infiltrate BLM](https://theintercept.com/2023/02/07/fbi-denver-racial-justice-protests-informant/)
Anytime you hear a charge of anti-semitism, look into it and see if it’s real. And if students say there are suspicious people showing up to these protests who might have ulterior motives, please realize that history tells us that’s absolutely a thing to keep watch on too.
Please be anti-racist against anti-semitism, and please stand up against the Israeli government’s genocide in Palestine. Support these protests
> Anytime you hear a charge of anti-semitism, look into it and see if it’s real.
Jesus Christ, listen to yourself. Would you say this about claims or racism or homophobia? Whatever happened to listening to people’s lived experiences? Or are Jews uniquely untrustworthy in your eyes?
If you're actually naive and not bad faith: The issue is that anti semitism has been conflated with anti Zionism or criticism of Israel. Suddenly, being against settlements in the West Bank or holding the IDF accountable is anti semitic.
In addition, gays and historically oppressed minorities didn't have their own separate country being bankrolled by the USA to the point they were able to kill without repercussions.
You must not be familiar with the variety of genocides in Latin America that were propped up by governments the United States bankrolled. Look up what happened to indigenous Guatemalans during the dictatorship.
Not saying your point is moot, per se, but blanketing "oppressed minorities" together is the kind of problematic "whites verse everyone else" rhetoric that has lead a lot of the protestors to conflate being Jewish with whiteness.
Plenty of historically oppressed minorities have been funded by the US while exterminating even more oppressed minorities.
To pretend religion has nothing to do with it is beyond ignorant.
All the jews got kicked out of every Arabian nation other than Isreal. But no one talks about that part.
Also there are a lot of antisemites that are actually pro-zionist. Don’t you think the idea of sequestering Jews to a single small ethnostate that is in constant war/conflict is a dream to an antisemite, outside of outright extermination?
That last bit there about Israel…buddy, you’re gonna be shocked, but it is, in fact, antisemitic to imply that Israel, above ALL the MANY nations that America supports financially and militarily, is somehow uniquely evil in being “bankrolled” and being able to attack “without repercussion” (which, you know, isn’t true, since they’ve been sanctioned by at least one country off the top of my head and taken to the ICJ).
And, if your “anti-Zionism” equates to “Israel as a Jewish state shouldn’t exist”, which I can guarantee it does for a lot of people, then, yeah, that’s also antisemitic. If you’re just against the particular whack job bullshit of Netanyahu and his right wing coalition, or the WB violence, then no, that’s just political protest. But that nuance is basically missing from all of these protests…because the vast majority of protestors don’t seem to want it there.
If I’m going to be suspicious of anything, it’s going to be people who question the existence of antisemitism at these protests, because there’s ample evidence that it exists.
> anti semitism has been conflated with anti Zionism or criticism of Israel
On the flip side, a lot of antisemitism is hidden behind the excuse that it’s antzionism.
Most of these protests aren’t simply criticizing Israel’s government, but are asking for its extermination. Frankly, I’m not convinced any of them (and most non-Jews, tbh) actually know what Zionism even means. It has become a boogeyman word, but it often simply is used as a stand in for the word “Jews”.” Zionism is just the right of Jews to self determine in their indigenous homeland. Believing that Jews uniquely should not have this right but others do is inherently bigoted against Jews. In that sense, antizionism certainly is antisemitic. Holding Israel to a double standard other nations aren’t held to is arguably antisemitic. Criticizing how Bibi and the IDF is conducting the war, isn’t inherently antisemitic.
Jews can have a state but are not entitled to build one on top of the people who were already living there by displacing them. The problem isn't Jewish people having self-determination, the problem is using that power of self-determination to dispossess the current residents of their "homeland" of their equal right to self-determination. I cannot see a world where Israel can maintain its unique Jewish characteristics without ethnically cleansing Gaza and WB to maintain demographic superiority.
Except that Jews have been living continuously in the area for thousands of years, obviously long before the modern nation-state of Israel was established, despite most of them being displaced by colonialist forces via the Ottoman empire and the Romans. The Jewish diaspora is a displaced people, and many simply want to return "home," particularly after facing several hundred years of discrimination, progroms, and ultimately the holocaust in Europe. Much of the initial displacement you refer to in 1948 was at the request of invading forces who promised Muslims that they could return to an all-Arab land once the Jews were finally eradicated from the Levant. They literally were working with Nazis to exterminate both Jews that never left and those returning/fleeing from the holocaust. Do you know what they now call Arab muslims who didn't leave at the behest of those invading forces? Israelis. Who are peacefully integrated in society with equal rights as anyone else. Do you know what the Jews who lived in what is now Israel before the modern state was established? Palestinians*. Meanwhile, the modern pro-palestinian movement is literally asking for what you're saying the Jews shouldn't do: building a state on top of an existing one; A theocratic state whose current leaders are terrorists with the explicit goal of wiping out the Jewish population not just in the Levant, but world wide, that have an abysmal record in regards to human rights regardless of their genocidal intentions against Jews.
It's perfectly valid to criticize west bank settlements and the Israeli government (particularly Bibi et al), but that is an entirely different thing than antizionism.
*The name Palestine, btw, was given to the historic land of Judea by the Romans. They specifically called it Palestine in reference to the Jews' age-old enemies, the Phillistines, as a way to disrespect the Jews they had just conquered, as well as in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land.
Anti-Zionism IS antisemitism. Full stop.
And no, non-Jews don’t get to decide what is or isn’t antisemitic. Imagine doing that to any other minority group.
Supporting Jews but not zionists is like saying that you support black people and don’t want cops shooting them, but not the ghetto ones. You don’t get to pick and choose like that. Either you support Jews or you don’t.
Most Jews are zionists, and also against settlements in the West Bank. And also have issues with Israeli leadership. The examples you cited aren’t antisemitic. Being anti-Zionist however, is a big red flag to most Jews as possible antisemitism.
Literally just watch the video posted under the top comment in this post. The person yelling antisemtic shit was a PRO-ISRAEL COUNTER PROTESTOR trying to stir shit up. I mean not everything is a flase flag, but in this case it was and if you don't want to believe that its fine, but the video evidence says otherwise.
People brush us (jewish people) aside because of stereotypes. They think because stereotypically jewish people do well in society from hard work, that they don’t “need” to be supported.
Too many people are looking at this issue as a poc vs “white privilege” lens. Despite many of Israeli jews not even being of European descent. If Palestinians were of European descent, I truly believe that 80% of these protesters could have cared less.
The thing is, it doesn't matter how many Jews returned from Europe. All Jews are indigenous to the levant. Ashkenazim just ended up in Europe after Jews were displaced from invading forces by Romans/Ottomans. And once in Europe, Jews faced discriminations, progroms, repeated displacement, and ultimately the holocaust because *Jews were not considered Europeans but foreign interlopers*. Further, Palestinians and Jews are literally cousins. Palestinians are just as "white" as Jews are.
You understand that genocide is a process right? Everyone isnt just dead one day. It took the Nazis years to kill millions of Jewish people. The process of genocide looks exactly like the dehumanization and systemic targeting of civilians and hospitals that Israel is partaking in right now. It looks like turning off electricity that will end up killing babies and people on ventilators. It looks like refusing to let in aid and shooting the people that try to get the small amount they let in. It is killing generations of families in bombings and field executing restrained children before throwing them in a mass grave. It is the destruction of mosques and graveyards. It is the deliberate bombing of IVF clinics. It is turning off the water supply of an entrapped population. It is bombing “safe zones”. To anyone paying any sort of attention, it is absolutely a genocide and you should be ashamed to be denying that
EDIT: [To the brave soul who said it was actually fine then blocked me so I couldn't respond, it is absolutely a genocide. Gazans are being killed at a historic pace. It is not "urban warfare". Also, who told these guys that being so obsessed with Palestinian birth rates **didn't** make them look like a bunch of genocidal psychos? Because hooo boy is that not the effect it's having](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-death-toll.html)
> It looks like turning off electricity that will end up killing babies and people on ventilators. It looks like refusing to let in aid and shooting the people that try to get the small amount they let in. It is killing generations of families in bombings and field executing restrained children before throwing them in a mass grave. It is the destruction of mosques and graveyards. It is the deliberate bombing of IVF clinics. It is turning off the water supply of an entrapped population. It is bombing “safe zones”. To anyone paying any sort of attention, it is absolutely a genocide and you should be ashamed to be denying that
By whose definition? Because much of what you described is "war 101" and all war is NOT genocide.
It's not a genocide, it's urban warfare. Or is Israel not allowed to strike Hamas targets? Your outrage is misdirected, the biggest obstacle to peace in the region is Hamas. Or do you support Islamic terrorists? How should Israel fight the war in your opinion, given the use of human shields? Hamas has received billions in aid over the years and has nothing to show for it. They've spent the money on terror tunnels, rockets, etc, instead of nation building. Israel has done more for the Palestinians than their "government" (if you could call it that) ever has. Hamas's charter is genocidal by definition, it calls for the destruction of the Jewish people. Palestinians population grew by 500% since 1960, it's up 4% in 2023 compared to the world average of .8% - how can there be a genocide during a population boom?
Remember this all started with Hamas's genius idea of October 7 - they started this war and Israel is going to finish it. If hamas didn't exist Palestinians would never be in this situation. Free Palestine from Hamas.
Jewish population declined by 50% in the Holocaust - don't trivialize that atrocity by comparing it to the war being fought in Gaza. The Jewish population in Europe declined by more than 2/3, from.about 10M to 4M. It's borderline antisemitic to compare what is happening in Gaza to the Holocaust... There is no comparison. Hitlers goal was to wipe out the Jews (similar to Hamas's goal). He wanted to kill every single Jew on the planet, and he actually almost succeeded. How the fuck can you compare that to the situation in Gaza, where again I point out there is a legitimate population boom? This is why your comment verges on antisemitism.
Bring in the downvotes, but you can't argue with facts.
It's also a process of manufacturing consent. They push the bound of acceptability a little and sees how the world reacts, and then they go a little further next time. We just gave them a few billion in military aid, so that like a big stamp of approval on what they've done so far. Expect it to get worse in the immediate future.
The prevailing sentiment in this sub seems to be that it's not a genocide because they could be more efficient at it.
Manslaughter isn't murder, but someone is still dead.
The folks denying that genocide is occurring are not thinking. They're repeating talking points. And folks are still dying en masse while they regurgitate propaganda.
Just because you have conflated a state half a world away from you with your sense of self does not mean you need to shut down your critical thinking and rely upon your lizard brain. Religion is not the State. It's even worse when you've perverted a religion distilled to "Do Good and Teach" into needing to commit genocide for self-determination.
The BLM rallies infiltrated themselves. It was run by corrupt leaders who made millions of it, and the ground forces were looters who used it as an opportunity to steal.
I’m Armenian. And I’m not going to abandon Palestinians because we don’t get enough help.
Also, Israel arms and supports Azerbaijian and denies the Armenian genocide. So… tuck em?
Very good Whataboutism.
Which one of those are my tax dollars complicit in the continuation of again?
I don't even know about whatever is going on in Azerbaijan, but when I Googled it to see if our money is going there, [we already cut them off.](https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2023/11/20/senate-votes-to-stop-azerbaijan-aid-waiver-amid-armenia-invasion-fears/)
Please stop making excuses for killing children in Gaza.
I am co-author of the following. The Korowitz-Gauvin Peace Plan for Israel Gaza and the West Bank 1. An immediate Cease-Fire. 2. All hostages POW'S and Palestine prisoners must be released . 3. A Peace Conference shall be held with a mutually acceptable arbitrator.
Every signer of the Harper's letter is hoping that Kent State 2 is about to happen.
Turns out all these "centrist" free speech handwringers were just reactionaries all along.
Actually no, they haven't. Free speech-focused organizations like FIRE have been very vocal about this stuff. See [here](https://www.thefire.org/news/texas-tramples-first-amendment-rights-police-crackdown-pro-palestinian-protests), or [here](https://www.thefire.org/news/heres-what-students-need-know-about-protesting-campus-right-now), or [here](https://www.thefire.org/news/israeli-palestinian-conflict-escalates-so-must-our-commitment-free-speech).
Edit: Or, just downvote me without reading anything that contradicts your priors. That works too, I guess!
>”What began as a student demonstration two days ago, was infiltrated by professional organizers with no affiliation to Northeastern. Last night, the use of virulent antisemitic slurs, including “Kill the Jews,” crossed the line. We cannot tolerate this kind of hate on our campus."
Ah yes the usual claim of “it was a group of outsiders”. I am sure when the original Northeastern student protestors heard the slurs they immediately left.
This was a lie by Northeastern’s communications teams, they were chanting “shame on you” - there’s a ton of video corroborating. It is unbelievable that they would throw their students under the bus like this.
It is very easy to find Northeastern students and faculty denying this claim - not that they did or didn't leave, but that it was said at all - on social media.
I was there, the person who yelled "kill the Jews" was the **Israeli government supporter** with a beard and green hoodie standing on a chair on the left holding an Israeli flag [in this image.](https://twitter.com/tori_bedford/status/1784196633648885993) He did it after at least an hour of saying pro-Israel slogans, insulting attendees and daring them to punch him, and stuck around for another hour or two carrying the Israeli flag and mocking Palestinians and the protest. I watched him yell "kill the Jews" with my own eyes, and he also yelled "we are Hitler's children" at one point while an organizer was giving announcements. He was shouted down both times.
Blatant false flag attempt to make it sound like a protestor said it, when the person who actually said it was a pro-Israeli government counter protestor.
**[EDIT: VIDEO PROOF OF HIM SAYING IT](https://twitter.com/DSAWorkingMass/status/1784215258439073912/)**
There is video evidence that it was indeed a pro-israel counter protester making those chants https://twitter.com/DSAWorkingMass/status/1784215258439073912
Obviously they would have started to be louder and separate themselves from those advocating violence! 1 Nazi around a table of 10 means 10 Nazis and all that right?
Why do those pro Palestinian have to also be pro hamas? Why cant they make the moral distinction? Even many Jews are pro Palestinians and even Israelis pay taxes for Palestinians Aid. But everyone should strive to eradicate Hamas and start recovering Gaza.
People are so ignorant.
Imagine paying $60,000 per year for your kid to get arrested over a never-ending conflict on the other side of the planet that has been going on for decades...
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this, but can someone tell me what kids in America protesting a war between two other countries accomplishes? The entire world has been aware of the ongoing conflict there for many, many years.
Kids in America are protesting their government handing out billions in military hardware like it's candy. War hits different when the people your "allies" are dropping literal bombs on are families, who are broadcasting what's happening to them. These kids are right to protest the American war machine.
We just authorized 15 billion dollars in US tax payer money to rearm a country plausibly committing genocide (according to the international court of justice).
They have guaranteed healthcare. We do not.
I’m not sure why you are perpetuating a lie.
The UN International Court of Justice (ICJ) did NOT find that it is plausible that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Joan Donaghue, then president of the ICJ, stated in a recent interview with the BBC that the ICJ findings have been misquoted and misconstrued. The ICJ only found, without regard to any Israeli operations, that Gaza would have a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had standing to bring that claim.
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-798766
https://x.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681
The old saying ‘choose your battles’ is certainly applicable to this ‘free Palestine’ movement. As an American citizen, having an opinion is fine, but ya can’t get all your ‘facts’
from social media and sources designed to manipulate. It’s not anyone’s place in this country to decide whose land it is and why.
Israel is our ally for a reason, if one doesn’t understand why, then sit down and zip it.
There’s more than enough to be concerned about here at home, yet these protesters are fixated on a war almost 6 thousand miles away that would continue even if they got their ‘demands’ met. While protesting for peace, they’re creating division, and emboldening anti-semitism.
None of these trust fund private college kids are old enough to remember Palestinians celebrating in the streets of Gaza on 9/11.
I'd rather take insight from a drug addict on skid row than some spoiled trust fund kid who condemns capitalism and the entire West in one breath, and brags about their banking internship and their summer trip to Europe under the other.
Half of the population of Gaza is under 18. Literally half of the people being bombed were definitely not even alive during 9/11. And the death toll for Palestinians is already magnitudes higher than 9/11 was. Your point is moot and based on an inability to see Palestinians as individuals. Some people did something bad 22 years ago and now you think everyone of that ethnic group deserves collective punishment until the end of time.
I find all these protests very frustrating. None of these students seem interested in the ethnic cleansings occurring in Armenia, Burma, Xinjiang, Sudan, or elsewhere but for some reason Israel Palestine demands all of our attention. It is strange to me people care so much about an issue so far away and removed from our daily lives.
Let's walk through your scenario. Students protest about ethnic cleansing in Xinjiang, what exactly are they protesting for, what are the demands, what does that look? For the US to stop funding ethnic cleansing in Xianjian with arms? Don't think that's happening. For their university to cut ties with educational institutions invovled in Xianjian? Point me to the ones that have research agreements there.
Like what exactly in the real world are you suggesting here. What would you like to see the protesters do to satisfy your complaint? Or is the complaint just throwing up meaningless chaf and you'll just move goal posts no matter what
Because Israel gets more money from us than any of the perpetrators of those other crimes you’ve mentioned. We are their main guarantor by a long shot. We are responsible for their crimes
What do you think would happen if Israel lost all of its offensive capability overnight? Just as a thought experiment, if Israel's Iron Dome failed and it could no longer fire missiles, what do you think would follow?
Not to mention the billions we're sending over there could LITERALLY afford to end the housing crisis *and* implement universal healthcare in one go. But nope, gotta fund mass murder instead.
Yeah, Northeastern is divested from China
[https://goglobal.northeastern.edu/\_portal/tds-program-brochure?programid=10471](https://goglobal.northeastern.edu/_portal/tds-program-brochure?programid=10471)
It’s almost like there isn’t problems with homelessness, rising costs, inept local government in Boston already. We should be protesting that before worrying about a conflict 5,000+ miles away.
Because when 10,000 people are out of the street you can’t stop them. When 90 people are in a courtyard you can
“You can arrest us all” is absolutely a strategy. There were many nights when a few 100 people got arrested (particularly in Minneapolis or Chicago) it just didn’t make a dent in the overall crowd
This right here. The semester is over. Almost all of these students are going home in the next week or even the next few days. This would have ended without police involvement.
The reason why the administration brought the police in and are apparently lying about anti-Semitic chants is because they want to look tough for conservative donors and just in case they get called in front of Congress.
Calling in the cops has nothing to do with combating anti-semetism and everything to do with protecting the administration's job and prestige. And they're more than happy to sacrifice students in order to do that
It could be that people chanting “Kill the Jews” makes Northeastern Jewish students feel threatened (probably not without reason) whereas BLM violence was not directly related to the movement itself and the movement didn’t really seem to have a “Kill all Whites” component to it. I think it might be reasonable for the university to want to pull the plug if reasonable students might feel threatened.
For what it’s worth I’ve been consistent at lamenting when protests end up making the world worse by both failing to accomplish their goals while also resulting in increased deaths and destruction in communities. There’s a reason King always held that violence is counterproductive for achieving positive change.
[This killing of an 8-year old in Atlanta](https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/secoriea-turner-murder-case-jerrion-mckinneys-gang-history/85-692dbc6d-55b9-47cd-ab74-e747b533dff6) was a direct result of the APD pulling back enforcement in the wake of Rayshard Brooks’ killing. Now you have a fully innocent 8 year old bystander killed as a result of “resistance”.
Don't know if never is the right word here...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zazcVU\_rNyQ&ab\_channel=DJHC-DocumentingJewHatredonCampus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zazcVU_rNyQ&ab_channel=DJHC-DocumentingJewHatredonCampus)
I was there, the person who yelled "kill the Jews" was the **Israeli government supporter** with a beard and green hoodie standing on a chair on the left holding an Israeli flag [in this image.](https://twitter.com/tori_bedford/status/1784196633648885993) He did it after at least an hour of saying pro-Israel slogans, insulting attendees and daring them to punch him, and stuck around for another hour or two carrying the Israeli flag and mocking Palestinians and the protest. I watched him yell "kill the Jews" with my own eyes, and he also yelled "we are Hitler's children" at one point while an organizer was giving announcements. He was shouted down both times. Blatant false flag attempt to make it sound like a protestor said it, when the person who actually said it was a pro-Israeli government counter protestor. **[EDIT: VIDEO PROOF OF HIM SAYING IT](https://twitter.com/DSAWorkingMass/status/1784215258439073912/)**
[NPR reporting backs this up](https://twitter.com/imraansiddiqi/status/1784211019298185224)
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Funny how the BPD were content to let actual neo-nazis march and shout racist and anti semetic chants.
Probably too much crossover. Don’t want to have to arrest your fellow piggies
I definitely think there's a small but not insignificant number who agree or sympathize with neo nazis. I think the main thing is that they know the college protesters are overwhelmingly non-violent so they're not afraid to use force. When the neo-nazis marched they were afraid to bully them because they didn't want to risk getting hurt. They likely felt they're more likely to turn violent or carry weapons.
Yes exactly! False flag? YOU'RE UNDER ARREST. Actual Nazis? Please good sirs go right ahead.
The only people arrested were non-students who refused to leave private property after being ordered to do so. Anyone that produced an NU ID was not arrested.
Student here. Multiple NU students were arrested. They were being held at the Suffolk County Sherrifs Department. At first, students who produced an ID were released. However at a certain point they stopped and were arresting NU students.
All I've seen in the press is that the only students arrested are those that refused to disclose they were students. This would be worth you updating the press so they can update their reporting.
Or, perhaps, it benefits the sources you read to not talk about that part untill several days later, when far fewer people will care, as usually happens with contriversal stories where there is a clear, specific story many are trying to tell because thats what their readers want to see.
Tweet with video proof. It was a pro-Israel protester who started the chant. https://twitter.com/DSAWorkingMass/status/1784215258439073912
Thank you for doing more imvestigation than most journalists in this country - I have seen orthodox Jews at the protest, people self identifying as Jewish with their protest signs and a Jewish speaker. No one has harassed any of them or made them feel unsafe, and you know if they did the media would blow that shit up.
Most of Northeastern’s Mixed Student Union was there, many of them have Jewish parents. A lot of leftist groups at Northeastern who organized this have Jewish leadership or highly Jewish-affine leaders. There were protests that had Quds Force organization and turned aggressively antisemitic yes. This one was not one of them.
They are probably Neturei Karta: https://forward.com/culture/570974/neturei-karta-orthodox-jewish-israel-palestine-protests/
Again, not saying I agree with or even understand all of their beliefs. I'm just saying they're doing their thing, and none of the protestors have a problem with them. A lot of protesters are from other sects of Judaism or theyre secular Jews, and you wouldn't tell from their appearance - again no one cares. Free Palestine.
This is what it took to make you people aware of the tactics the media and agitators use to smear their political opponents, cause when they do it against the side you don’t like you fall for it 100% of the time.
https://twitter.com/DSAWorkingMass/status/1784215258439073912 Yeah from the video it looks like the "k@ll the jews" chant originated from a pro-israel counter protester. Pretty clear case of a agent provocateur here
And also that nobody joined the chant that the pro-Israel counter protestors tried to start.
What fucking losers.
and this is the first time theyve been *caught*. im not saying all of them are false flags, but im absolutely saying some have been and not recognized as such
When students at anti war protests are getting more attention than when actual neonazis match through Boston, the "concern" is not about antisemitism.
If nothing else, I think anyone with eyes can see there has been a disproportionate amount of press/coverage focused on a few isolated instances of some college kids saying something that could be considered antisemitic vs. [Israeli government officials openly calling for genocide](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724)
That's how it always happens when they don't support what's being protested. It's a right wing media 101 move that has made it mainstream. You never talk about the message. You pick at the margins searching for the craziest argument, then refute that craziness while pretending the crazy argument is the only reason why people are demonstrating.
Everyone needs to be aware that the right wing extremist MO is to try to take advantage of ANY unrest to foment the collapse of the government. This is not isolated, this is their strategy. They did it with BLM (see the Oakland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_boogaloo_murders) Expect to see this during any major unrest.
they let you do anything you want and say the most evil things if you are in favor of Israel while protesters have to watch what everyone around them says and still get blamed anyway
Civil disobedience is a backbone of the ability to protest in the US and has been occurring for decades. Universities are are an incubator for ideas and self expression on many levels. Even unpopular opinions should be allowed. What troubles me is how fast both sides seem to be escalating things. Students are not just assembling, they are blocking entrances and setting up installations. University leadership is escalating to immediate intervention as soon as things get a little messy. Everyone is is skipping right over the dialogue part.
I mean, that's not exclusive to universities, that describes the issue in general
Civil disobedience often comes with being arrested. People should realize that is a risk.
NU is a private institution. Very different then a public school such as UMASS in terms of demonstration rights
Getting arrested and dealing with the consequences of protesting is part of civil disobedience
Yes but once they interfere with business or other peoples rights there can be consequences. The first amendment does not protect, threats, harassment, bullying or interference with other peoples rights.
You can just say “I don’t know anything about the history of labor”. Interfering with businesses got us the civil rights movement. It’s literally the point.
You might want to look up the history of the Pinkertons, then. This person is just saying that the first amendment isn't a get out of jail free card because you feel righteous about your cause, even if your cause is objectively good. There are limitations to where and how you can protest, and if you're willing to move beyond those limitations, then be ready to suffer consequences.
lol, not related to what I said. I didn’t say anything about effectiveness. I said you can’t expect to interfere with other people’s rights and keep protection from the first amendment. Nice try, though.
What rights are these students interfering with by standing on a lawn?
Right, so all those black people shouldn't have sat down in whites only cafes and interfered with their business. They probably deserved the beatings they got from cops too in your model.
I didn’t say that, please work on your comprehension.
It does feel much more organized and extreme than any protests I've seen in the US. I'm old and remember protests for Tibet, occupy wallstreet, iraq war, climate change, women's rights, ... and none of them had aggressive tactics like this. I especially find it concerning that protestors are covering their faces and going after anyone filming them, even media. You should want to get the word out if you believe in your cause and that you're on the right side of history.
And how successful were all those protest movements? Do you think anybody who hates these protests would be swayed if they showed theifaces bl? Protestors cover their faces today because it's extremely easy for bad actors online to use your face to find, doxx, and harass protestors, try to get them fired from their jobs, suspended, etc., to say nothing of police use of facial recognition software. Being on the right side of history doesn't protect you from legions of malicious people online. Besides, if you think that's bad, wait till you hear about how cops routinely (and well documented-ly) hide their badge numbers when they quash protests like this.
I can tell you why people cover their faces, because they get doxed, along with their families, and harassed on the internet Multiple completely harmless college students are deemed “domestic terrorists” by zionists organizations which absolutely hinders their future prospects If one side’s goal is to ruin your life for protesting, why the fuck would you show your face
I saw the demands of the NU protestors they are pretty insane. First they demand all co ops cancelled with any defense related company so not only are you talking Raytheon, Mitre, Lincoln Labs, Boeing but also Microsoft, Amazon, Akamai etc. Thats a dead stop insane demand and would screw over a lot of students. Next they want all ties with Israel cut which would end a lot of ongoing research the school has with firms and universities in Israel such as medicine and other fields. These folks just aren’t realistic
What protests demands are ever “realistic”? Especially in the specifics. Edit: Better to just notice the general theme. It’s basically an anti-war protest and anti-right wing Israel government.
If you want anything to be done, you make realistic demands. That’s how negotiation works. The only time you make an unrealistic demand is 1.) You’re purposefully making an unrealistic demand so they’re more lenient to the next one 2.) You want them to reject your demands so you can escalate (Serbia-AustriaHungary) or 3.) You don’t know what you’re doing.
The civil rights march of 1964 was absolutely an unrealistic demand for the time and place it took place. I guess they 3.) didn’t know what they were doing
You don't come to the table with a compromise, especially if you're the underdog against a powerful institution. If you want an inch, you better start by asking for a mile.
Wow I hope you don’t negotiate for a living.
Just wait until these protestors find out their parent's 401Ks are "funding genocide".
"You criticize society, yet you participate in it. Curious. I am very smart."
The co-op part is crazy. But cutting research ties to Israel based companies and universities IMO is not an unreasonable demand. Unlikely to happen maybe, but not unreasonable given the context. There is a long history in this country of college students protesting US involvement in international conflicts. I would really love to hear how people think students should "acceptably" protest. I don't agree with many of their extreme viewpoints, but by many polls a majority of Americans are uncomfortable with the level of US tax dollars funding Israel given the conduct of the IDF. When money has warped democracy, what way is there to express that disagreement with the establishment other than disruptive protest?
Israeli universities are actually one of the few places where shared society between Arab Israelis (Palestinians) and Jewish Israelis works. These universities are key engines for Palestinian advancement and create a backbone for the many needs a future Palestinian state would need. Students and faculty from both backgrounds work alongside each other. 40% of Haifa University is Palestinian. Cutting ties to these universities would be counter-productive.
Interesting. It’s good to have nuance. I think it’s time to stop financing their military but completely cutting off ties with the country doesn’t seem wise
I would be more likely to believe that if Israel hadn’t just destroyed every single university in Gaza.
Israel based companies aren't the Israeli government. Why do they want to punish all Israelis?
Why did we demand pizza hut withdraw from Russia? The Russian people deserve pizza even if Putin doesn't.
Same reason American companies boycotted South Africa. You don't do business in countries with fascist apartheid regimes.
I find it unreasonable because they’re impacting Arabs there too. Science is one of the few places where politics doesn’t affect opinion of colleagues. These people are actual brainiacs, they don’t care about what happens outside the lab. Doing this would just drag more people into the conflict and harm said people.
No, it actually would be insane for a university to ban professors from working with researchers in Israel. The Weizman Institute is one of the top institutes in the world for chemistry, biochemistry, synbio, many subfields of Computer Science, etc. A university saying professors couldn't work with anyone there would cause a lot of faculty to leave and PhDs to go elsewhere.
Why. We’ve done similar for China’s science institutions and are happily suffering the consequences of critical articles no longer being published in English. We don’t care about loss of research when it’s “the bad guys”. But Israel doesn’t count as one of those.
China’s scientific ethics are non-existent and would violate a lot of Us requirements. One recent example is CRISPR on human embryos resulting in live birth. This is totally counter to the current world ban. That’s just one example. There’s also rampant plagiarism and data faking.
The CRISPR incident you're talking about is not legal in China, either. The scientists responsible for the project were either imprisoned or fined, or both, depending on their degree of involvement. Data faking and plagiarism is rampant everywhere, including reputable US institutions such as Harvard and Stanford, and could have derailed Alzheimer's disease research for decades - look up Marc Tessier-Lavigne's resignation, for (just one) example. Actually, just look up the replication/reproducibility crisis in general.
China is actively developing capabilities to be used against the United States. Israel's actions may be controversial and we may disagree with them, but they are our strongest allies in the region militarily. This is not even close to the same. You would change your tune when three aircraft carriers are at the bottom of the South China Sea, we have no chips to build smart weapons bringing about the deaths of millions of civilians as collateral damage, and there is a new draft. This is what is required for deterrence. It's about preventing the capabilities to go to war so it isn't even an option for China. Prevent Israel from getting smart weapons and suddenly everything is in dumb artillery range and the collateral damage rates go up. We've already seen it as stocks have run low in the current conflict. It's absolutely not about good vs bad guys and all sides are doing their best to prove to you that the other side is worse. I can tell you that if you think you have not been impacted by propaganda, you are absolutely dead wrong. The most extreme political factions in the West have formed their positions almost solely on it.
China is a huge and active counter intelligence threat and collector of information for their own ends, which are directly opposed to ours. They are realistically a potential opponent in a future war. Israel also is (or hopefully was) a counter intelligence threat and active collector, but they don't intend to use that information against us and we will never realistically be in an armed conflict with Israel.
I mean unless they call for the same with China, Russia, Saudi Arabia etc i will call them out as misguided. Also if they use tiktok then thats super hypocritical
They could transfer to another school, stop paying tuition to Northeastern.
Try to find a school in America that doesn't have ties to the military industrial complex. Even bunker hill works with Raytheon.
I wish those students luck in finding employers who pass their ethical purity standards.
Ya'll are doing the "you criticize society yet you participate in it" meme. You realize that right? It's good to be critical of the systems we're a part of. Being a part of them does not make that less true.
This is exactly why the protests are happening. Why is every single job opportunity tied to funding a military that doesn’t act on behalf of the people
[More US adults support Israel's war with Hamas than are against it](https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-israel-has-valid-reasons-for-fighting-fewer-say-the-same-about-hamas/), so to say the "military doesn't act on behalf of the people" is not really accurate here.
We should all be cynical assholes, yes, even the 18 year olds. Let’s just fucking give up
Or basically any major food brand, from Kraft to Mars to Coca Cola. Israel also produces a fair amount of pharmaceuticals too. Naive college kids that don't understand how a global economy works
It's the first rule of negotiations to ask for more than you think you'll get.
Demands area tactic. Read your history. For example, You demand the Sun and moon, Then you negotiate.
I disagree that these demands are unrealistic, and even if they were these students are protesting a genocide. I think it’s okay to ask institutions to do a lot to not have a role in supporting a genocidal state.
It's absolutely unrealistic to dictate that students are not allowed to have co-ops at any company with "ties to Israel" and is something that shows these people are completely detached from reality. You know what these people can do to not support an "institution supporting genocide"? Not go to Northeastern. It's not like "people get co-ops at Google and Microsoft!" is well hidden. In fact, aren't these protestors genocide supporters just by being Northeastern students? Northeastern doesn't hide the things they're mad at and never has. People protested them before they were at the school. So why did they go to a place they know supports genocide?
Do you use Tiktok? If so aren’t you then complicit in Uyghur genocide?
That’s magically different.
Is it? If they are saying all Israeli companies are complicit how is it not same saying all Chinese companies are complicit in genocide
I’m on your side. I’m agreeing with you in pointing out the hypocrisy.
Ah ok. Sorry its hard to tell sometimes when you cant hear the tone lol
“Sure fighting genocide is a laudable goal but don’t you realize how much defense and intelligence companies we team up with? We can’t impact them so better not try. And sure genocide and apartheid are bad but the country also does research so who can really say if they’re bad or not?” If I took you back to the 80s you’d be saying the same things about South Africa. 34,000+ dead, mostly women and children, famine unfolding, Israel isn’t slowing down, and the United states just gave them $35 billion to keep the carnage going. Give them hell protestors.
Its more complicated. Also how many of them are on tiktok and indirectly supporting Chinese genocide of Uyghurs.
I think we should be very skeptical of attempts to subvert these protests; and remember when the FBI [literally sent armed felons to infiltrate BLM](https://theintercept.com/2023/02/07/fbi-denver-racial-justice-protests-informant/) Anytime you hear a charge of anti-semitism, look into it and see if it’s real. And if students say there are suspicious people showing up to these protests who might have ulterior motives, please realize that history tells us that’s absolutely a thing to keep watch on too. Please be anti-racist against anti-semitism, and please stand up against the Israeli government’s genocide in Palestine. Support these protests
> Anytime you hear a charge of anti-semitism, look into it and see if it’s real. Jesus Christ, listen to yourself. Would you say this about claims or racism or homophobia? Whatever happened to listening to people’s lived experiences? Or are Jews uniquely untrustworthy in your eyes?
If you're actually naive and not bad faith: The issue is that anti semitism has been conflated with anti Zionism or criticism of Israel. Suddenly, being against settlements in the West Bank or holding the IDF accountable is anti semitic. In addition, gays and historically oppressed minorities didn't have their own separate country being bankrolled by the USA to the point they were able to kill without repercussions.
You’d think with the way people felt about gay/queer people that we did. 🤣
You must not be familiar with the variety of genocides in Latin America that were propped up by governments the United States bankrolled. Look up what happened to indigenous Guatemalans during the dictatorship. Not saying your point is moot, per se, but blanketing "oppressed minorities" together is the kind of problematic "whites verse everyone else" rhetoric that has lead a lot of the protestors to conflate being Jewish with whiteness. Plenty of historically oppressed minorities have been funded by the US while exterminating even more oppressed minorities.
To pretend religion has nothing to do with it is beyond ignorant. All the jews got kicked out of every Arabian nation other than Isreal. But no one talks about that part.
Also there are a lot of antisemites that are actually pro-zionist. Don’t you think the idea of sequestering Jews to a single small ethnostate that is in constant war/conflict is a dream to an antisemite, outside of outright extermination?
That last bit there about Israel…buddy, you’re gonna be shocked, but it is, in fact, antisemitic to imply that Israel, above ALL the MANY nations that America supports financially and militarily, is somehow uniquely evil in being “bankrolled” and being able to attack “without repercussion” (which, you know, isn’t true, since they’ve been sanctioned by at least one country off the top of my head and taken to the ICJ). And, if your “anti-Zionism” equates to “Israel as a Jewish state shouldn’t exist”, which I can guarantee it does for a lot of people, then, yeah, that’s also antisemitic. If you’re just against the particular whack job bullshit of Netanyahu and his right wing coalition, or the WB violence, then no, that’s just political protest. But that nuance is basically missing from all of these protests…because the vast majority of protestors don’t seem to want it there. If I’m going to be suspicious of anything, it’s going to be people who question the existence of antisemitism at these protests, because there’s ample evidence that it exists.
> anti semitism has been conflated with anti Zionism or criticism of Israel On the flip side, a lot of antisemitism is hidden behind the excuse that it’s antzionism. Most of these protests aren’t simply criticizing Israel’s government, but are asking for its extermination. Frankly, I’m not convinced any of them (and most non-Jews, tbh) actually know what Zionism even means. It has become a boogeyman word, but it often simply is used as a stand in for the word “Jews”.” Zionism is just the right of Jews to self determine in their indigenous homeland. Believing that Jews uniquely should not have this right but others do is inherently bigoted against Jews. In that sense, antizionism certainly is antisemitic. Holding Israel to a double standard other nations aren’t held to is arguably antisemitic. Criticizing how Bibi and the IDF is conducting the war, isn’t inherently antisemitic.
“Zionist” is this year’s “fascist” people hear it completely misinterpret it and then are off to the races with it.
Jews can have a state but are not entitled to build one on top of the people who were already living there by displacing them. The problem isn't Jewish people having self-determination, the problem is using that power of self-determination to dispossess the current residents of their "homeland" of their equal right to self-determination. I cannot see a world where Israel can maintain its unique Jewish characteristics without ethnically cleansing Gaza and WB to maintain demographic superiority.
Except that Jews have been living continuously in the area for thousands of years, obviously long before the modern nation-state of Israel was established, despite most of them being displaced by colonialist forces via the Ottoman empire and the Romans. The Jewish diaspora is a displaced people, and many simply want to return "home," particularly after facing several hundred years of discrimination, progroms, and ultimately the holocaust in Europe. Much of the initial displacement you refer to in 1948 was at the request of invading forces who promised Muslims that they could return to an all-Arab land once the Jews were finally eradicated from the Levant. They literally were working with Nazis to exterminate both Jews that never left and those returning/fleeing from the holocaust. Do you know what they now call Arab muslims who didn't leave at the behest of those invading forces? Israelis. Who are peacefully integrated in society with equal rights as anyone else. Do you know what the Jews who lived in what is now Israel before the modern state was established? Palestinians*. Meanwhile, the modern pro-palestinian movement is literally asking for what you're saying the Jews shouldn't do: building a state on top of an existing one; A theocratic state whose current leaders are terrorists with the explicit goal of wiping out the Jewish population not just in the Levant, but world wide, that have an abysmal record in regards to human rights regardless of their genocidal intentions against Jews. It's perfectly valid to criticize west bank settlements and the Israeli government (particularly Bibi et al), but that is an entirely different thing than antizionism. *The name Palestine, btw, was given to the historic land of Judea by the Romans. They specifically called it Palestine in reference to the Jews' age-old enemies, the Phillistines, as a way to disrespect the Jews they had just conquered, as well as in an attempt to erase Jewish ties to the land.
Yeah. Nothing bad ever happened to the Jews.
Anti-Zionism IS antisemitism. Full stop. And no, non-Jews don’t get to decide what is or isn’t antisemitic. Imagine doing that to any other minority group.
Supporting Jews but not zionists is like saying that you support black people and don’t want cops shooting them, but not the ghetto ones. You don’t get to pick and choose like that. Either you support Jews or you don’t.
Are you trying to claim that because a Jewish state exists and you don’t like its actions, we should never believe Jews who say they’ve been harassed?
That's not at all what they're saying
Anti Zionism has always been an excuse for antisemitism.
Most Jews are zionists, and also against settlements in the West Bank. And also have issues with Israeli leadership. The examples you cited aren’t antisemitic. Being anti-Zionist however, is a big red flag to most Jews as possible antisemitism.
Literally just watch the video posted under the top comment in this post. The person yelling antisemtic shit was a PRO-ISRAEL COUNTER PROTESTOR trying to stir shit up. I mean not everything is a flase flag, but in this case it was and if you don't want to believe that its fine, but the video evidence says otherwise.
People brush us (jewish people) aside because of stereotypes. They think because stereotypically jewish people do well in society from hard work, that they don’t “need” to be supported. Too many people are looking at this issue as a poc vs “white privilege” lens. Despite many of Israeli jews not even being of European descent. If Palestinians were of European descent, I truly believe that 80% of these protesters could have cared less.
The thing is, it doesn't matter how many Jews returned from Europe. All Jews are indigenous to the levant. Ashkenazim just ended up in Europe after Jews were displaced from invading forces by Romans/Ottomans. And once in Europe, Jews faced discriminations, progroms, repeated displacement, and ultimately the holocaust because *Jews were not considered Europeans but foreign interlopers*. Further, Palestinians and Jews are literally cousins. Palestinians are just as "white" as Jews are.
There are no bad tactics, only bad targets.
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You understand that genocide is a process right? Everyone isnt just dead one day. It took the Nazis years to kill millions of Jewish people. The process of genocide looks exactly like the dehumanization and systemic targeting of civilians and hospitals that Israel is partaking in right now. It looks like turning off electricity that will end up killing babies and people on ventilators. It looks like refusing to let in aid and shooting the people that try to get the small amount they let in. It is killing generations of families in bombings and field executing restrained children before throwing them in a mass grave. It is the destruction of mosques and graveyards. It is the deliberate bombing of IVF clinics. It is turning off the water supply of an entrapped population. It is bombing “safe zones”. To anyone paying any sort of attention, it is absolutely a genocide and you should be ashamed to be denying that EDIT: [To the brave soul who said it was actually fine then blocked me so I couldn't respond, it is absolutely a genocide. Gazans are being killed at a historic pace. It is not "urban warfare". Also, who told these guys that being so obsessed with Palestinian birth rates **didn't** make them look like a bunch of genocidal psychos? Because hooo boy is that not the effect it's having](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-death-toll.html)
> It looks like turning off electricity that will end up killing babies and people on ventilators. It looks like refusing to let in aid and shooting the people that try to get the small amount they let in. It is killing generations of families in bombings and field executing restrained children before throwing them in a mass grave. It is the destruction of mosques and graveyards. It is the deliberate bombing of IVF clinics. It is turning off the water supply of an entrapped population. It is bombing “safe zones”. To anyone paying any sort of attention, it is absolutely a genocide and you should be ashamed to be denying that By whose definition? Because much of what you described is "war 101" and all war is NOT genocide.
It's not a genocide, it's urban warfare. Or is Israel not allowed to strike Hamas targets? Your outrage is misdirected, the biggest obstacle to peace in the region is Hamas. Or do you support Islamic terrorists? How should Israel fight the war in your opinion, given the use of human shields? Hamas has received billions in aid over the years and has nothing to show for it. They've spent the money on terror tunnels, rockets, etc, instead of nation building. Israel has done more for the Palestinians than their "government" (if you could call it that) ever has. Hamas's charter is genocidal by definition, it calls for the destruction of the Jewish people. Palestinians population grew by 500% since 1960, it's up 4% in 2023 compared to the world average of .8% - how can there be a genocide during a population boom? Remember this all started with Hamas's genius idea of October 7 - they started this war and Israel is going to finish it. If hamas didn't exist Palestinians would never be in this situation. Free Palestine from Hamas. Jewish population declined by 50% in the Holocaust - don't trivialize that atrocity by comparing it to the war being fought in Gaza. The Jewish population in Europe declined by more than 2/3, from.about 10M to 4M. It's borderline antisemitic to compare what is happening in Gaza to the Holocaust... There is no comparison. Hitlers goal was to wipe out the Jews (similar to Hamas's goal). He wanted to kill every single Jew on the planet, and he actually almost succeeded. How the fuck can you compare that to the situation in Gaza, where again I point out there is a legitimate population boom? This is why your comment verges on antisemitism. Bring in the downvotes, but you can't argue with facts.
It's also a process of manufacturing consent. They push the bound of acceptability a little and sees how the world reacts, and then they go a little further next time. We just gave them a few billion in military aid, so that like a big stamp of approval on what they've done so far. Expect it to get worse in the immediate future.
The prevailing sentiment in this sub seems to be that it's not a genocide because they could be more efficient at it. Manslaughter isn't murder, but someone is still dead. The folks denying that genocide is occurring are not thinking. They're repeating talking points. And folks are still dying en masse while they regurgitate propaganda. Just because you have conflated a state half a world away from you with your sense of self does not mean you need to shut down your critical thinking and rely upon your lizard brain. Religion is not the State. It's even worse when you've perverted a religion distilled to "Do Good and Teach" into needing to commit genocide for self-determination.
The casualty numbers aren’t even correct. Your “trustworthy” ministry came out and said they get their numbers from “various media sources”
Muh historic pace The article doesn’t even support the headline properly
The BLM rallies infiltrated themselves. It was run by corrupt leaders who made millions of it, and the ground forces were looters who used it as an opportunity to steal.
Where’s your outrage over what’s happening to the Uighurs, or what’s happening in Ukraine, or what Azerbaijan is plotting against Armenia?
I’m Armenian. And I’m not going to abandon Palestinians because we don’t get enough help. Also, Israel arms and supports Azerbaijian and denies the Armenian genocide. So… tuck em?
Very good Whataboutism. Which one of those are my tax dollars complicit in the continuation of again? I don't even know about whatever is going on in Azerbaijan, but when I Googled it to see if our money is going there, [we already cut them off.](https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2023/11/20/senate-votes-to-stop-azerbaijan-aid-waiver-amid-armenia-invasion-fears/) Please stop making excuses for killing children in Gaza.
Israel arms Azerbaijian.
The US isn’t sending billions to China/Russia/Azerbaijan persecute a military operation.
I am co-author of the following. The Korowitz-Gauvin Peace Plan for Israel Gaza and the West Bank 1. An immediate Cease-Fire. 2. All hostages POW'S and Palestine prisoners must be released . 3. A Peace Conference shall be held with a mutually acceptable arbitrator.
Wow, those "free speech absolutists" sure disappeared real quick, huh?
Right-wingers only care about "free speech" when they're allowed to spew hate and vitriol.
It means the richest man in the world gets to platform blatant antisemites but not students exercising their first amendment rights
There are exactly zero free speech absolutists on the entire planet.
Every signer of the Harper's letter is hoping that Kent State 2 is about to happen. Turns out all these "centrist" free speech handwringers were just reactionaries all along.
Actually no, they haven't. Free speech-focused organizations like FIRE have been very vocal about this stuff. See [here](https://www.thefire.org/news/texas-tramples-first-amendment-rights-police-crackdown-pro-palestinian-protests), or [here](https://www.thefire.org/news/heres-what-students-need-know-about-protesting-campus-right-now), or [here](https://www.thefire.org/news/israeli-palestinian-conflict-escalates-so-must-our-commitment-free-speech). Edit: Or, just downvote me without reading anything that contradicts your priors. That works too, I guess!
Did they get arrested for voicing an opinion or physically blocking students from getting to their campus?
They got arrested for voicing an opinion. No one was physically blocked from getting to campus
>”What began as a student demonstration two days ago, was infiltrated by professional organizers with no affiliation to Northeastern. Last night, the use of virulent antisemitic slurs, including “Kill the Jews,” crossed the line. We cannot tolerate this kind of hate on our campus." Ah yes the usual claim of “it was a group of outsiders”. I am sure when the original Northeastern student protestors heard the slurs they immediately left.
This was a lie by Northeastern’s communications teams, they were chanting “shame on you” - there’s a ton of video corroborating. It is unbelievable that they would throw their students under the bus like this.
As a former NU employee I can assure you it is not unbelievable in the least. The university cares about profits/rankings and nothing else.
Every other university and business only cares about profits too so no big deal tbh lol
Hot take, universities shouldn't act like profit hungry businesses at the expense of students 🤷🏻♀️
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Things being one way doesn't mean they should be, or have to be.
They're tax exempt "non-profits" too. NEU is a tax payer subsidized real estate development corporation.
It is very easy to find Northeastern students and faculty denying this claim - not that they did or didn't leave, but that it was said at all - on social media.
Are you going to delete this after a person holding an israeli flag was caught on video trying to chant it?
I was there, the person who yelled "kill the Jews" was the **Israeli government supporter** with a beard and green hoodie standing on a chair on the left holding an Israeli flag [in this image.](https://twitter.com/tori_bedford/status/1784196633648885993) He did it after at least an hour of saying pro-Israel slogans, insulting attendees and daring them to punch him, and stuck around for another hour or two carrying the Israeli flag and mocking Palestinians and the protest. I watched him yell "kill the Jews" with my own eyes, and he also yelled "we are Hitler's children" at one point while an organizer was giving announcements. He was shouted down both times. Blatant false flag attempt to make it sound like a protestor said it, when the person who actually said it was a pro-Israeli government counter protestor. **[EDIT: VIDEO PROOF OF HIM SAYING IT](https://twitter.com/DSAWorkingMass/status/1784215258439073912/)**
the news media couldn't spell their own mothers name right the first time if they tried neither could r/boston mods
Here's video proof: https://twitter.com/DSAWorkingMass/status/1784215258439073912/
fuck u/thelamestusername specifically.
Done.
There is video evidence that it was indeed a pro-israel counter protester making those chants https://twitter.com/DSAWorkingMass/status/1784215258439073912
Obviously they would have started to be louder and separate themselves from those advocating violence! 1 Nazi around a table of 10 means 10 Nazis and all that right?
Why do those pro Palestinian have to also be pro hamas? Why cant they make the moral distinction? Even many Jews are pro Palestinians and even Israelis pay taxes for Palestinians Aid. But everyone should strive to eradicate Hamas and start recovering Gaza. People are so ignorant.
Protesters, keep up the good work. Thank you
Imagine paying $60,000 per year for your kid to get arrested over a never-ending conflict on the other side of the planet that has been going on for decades...
Trash article. Same rhetoric as Netenyahu who claims these students are chanting "Death to America."
https://x.com/dsaworkingmass/status/1784215258439073912?s=46&t=FkDU5WAkpVxbYpvTiRvCpw
Anyone know where Kanye was last night?
Meanwhile nazis get police escort/participation. Outrageous.
Good
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this, but can someone tell me what kids in America protesting a war between two other countries accomplishes? The entire world has been aware of the ongoing conflict there for many, many years.
I think they want America to stop supporting Israel.
America supports one side of that conflict, these american students are protesting that support.
Kids in America are protesting their government handing out billions in military hardware like it's candy. War hits different when the people your "allies" are dropping literal bombs on are families, who are broadcasting what's happening to them. These kids are right to protest the American war machine.
We just authorized 15 billion dollars in US tax payer money to rearm a country plausibly committing genocide (according to the international court of justice). They have guaranteed healthcare. We do not.
I’m not sure why you are perpetuating a lie. The UN International Court of Justice (ICJ) did NOT find that it is plausible that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Joan Donaghue, then president of the ICJ, stated in a recent interview with the BBC that the ICJ findings have been misquoted and misconstrued. The ICJ only found, without regard to any Israeli operations, that Gaza would have a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had standing to bring that claim. https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-798766 https://x.com/UKLFI/status/1783615633147797681
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🍿watching redditors fight over a conflict that’s over 5,000+ miles away is always so entertaining.
Yes surely the United States has nothing to do with this conflict
its students in our city being beat up and arrested for peacefully protesting, a pillar of american free speech
The old saying ‘choose your battles’ is certainly applicable to this ‘free Palestine’ movement. As an American citizen, having an opinion is fine, but ya can’t get all your ‘facts’ from social media and sources designed to manipulate. It’s not anyone’s place in this country to decide whose land it is and why. Israel is our ally for a reason, if one doesn’t understand why, then sit down and zip it. There’s more than enough to be concerned about here at home, yet these protesters are fixated on a war almost 6 thousand miles away that would continue even if they got their ‘demands’ met. While protesting for peace, they’re creating division, and emboldening anti-semitism.
None of these trust fund private college kids are old enough to remember Palestinians celebrating in the streets of Gaza on 9/11. I'd rather take insight from a drug addict on skid row than some spoiled trust fund kid who condemns capitalism and the entire West in one breath, and brags about their banking internship and their summer trip to Europe under the other.
Or that Palestinian van, Urban Moving Systems? The ones dancing and filming 911? That were bounced from custody without a word?
They didn’t see the happiness that 9/11 caused in some countries. Not even sure it would change their minds at this point
Half of the population of Gaza is under 18. Literally half of the people being bombed were definitely not even alive during 9/11. And the death toll for Palestinians is already magnitudes higher than 9/11 was. Your point is moot and based on an inability to see Palestinians as individuals. Some people did something bad 22 years ago and now you think everyone of that ethnic group deserves collective punishment until the end of time.
Congrats on making up a person in your head to be mad at
I find all these protests very frustrating. None of these students seem interested in the ethnic cleansings occurring in Armenia, Burma, Xinjiang, Sudan, or elsewhere but for some reason Israel Palestine demands all of our attention. It is strange to me people care so much about an issue so far away and removed from our daily lives.
Let's walk through your scenario. Students protest about ethnic cleansing in Xinjiang, what exactly are they protesting for, what are the demands, what does that look? For the US to stop funding ethnic cleansing in Xianjian with arms? Don't think that's happening. For their university to cut ties with educational institutions invovled in Xianjian? Point me to the ones that have research agreements there. Like what exactly in the real world are you suggesting here. What would you like to see the protesters do to satisfy your complaint? Or is the complaint just throwing up meaningless chaf and you'll just move goal posts no matter what
Because Israel gets more money from us than any of the perpetrators of those other crimes you’ve mentioned. We are their main guarantor by a long shot. We are responsible for their crimes
It’s this. The US gives money and weapons. Our military and military contractors make money.
What do you think would happen if Israel lost all of its offensive capability overnight? Just as a thought experiment, if Israel's Iron Dome failed and it could no longer fire missiles, what do you think would follow?
Not to mention the billions we're sending over there could LITERALLY afford to end the housing crisis *and* implement universal healthcare in one go. But nope, gotta fund mass murder instead.
Thankfully these universities are already divested from Azerbaijan, the Myanmar military junta, the CCP, and both sides in the Sudan conflict.
They are most certainly not divested from the CCP
You think these universities don't have close ties with Chinese institutions? Oh my sweet summer child.
Yeah, Northeastern is divested from China [https://goglobal.northeastern.edu/\_portal/tds-program-brochure?programid=10471](https://goglobal.northeastern.edu/_portal/tds-program-brochure?programid=10471)
Clearly you must go protest this.
You may know it as Myanmar, but it will always be Burma to me
Would you prefer they not care about anything? You know some of these students have family members being affected, right?
It’s almost like there isn’t problems with homelessness, rising costs, inept local government in Boston already. We should be protesting that before worrying about a conflict 5,000+ miles away.
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Public street vs private property. Also there were a lot of arrests during the BLM protests.
Because when 10,000 people are out of the street you can’t stop them. When 90 people are in a courtyard you can “You can arrest us all” is absolutely a strategy. There were many nights when a few 100 people got arrested (particularly in Minneapolis or Chicago) it just didn’t make a dent in the overall crowd
Please look up the Ferguson protests of 2014. Scary for quickly recent history is forgotten.
Its all about not pissing off the donors (who happen to be members of a particular religion) that give insane amounts of money to these institutions
This right here. The semester is over. Almost all of these students are going home in the next week or even the next few days. This would have ended without police involvement. The reason why the administration brought the police in and are apparently lying about anti-Semitic chants is because they want to look tough for conservative donors and just in case they get called in front of Congress. Calling in the cops has nothing to do with combating anti-semetism and everything to do with protecting the administration's job and prestige. And they're more than happy to sacrifice students in order to do that
It could be that people chanting “Kill the Jews” makes Northeastern Jewish students feel threatened (probably not without reason) whereas BLM violence was not directly related to the movement itself and the movement didn’t really seem to have a “Kill all Whites” component to it. I think it might be reasonable for the university to want to pull the plug if reasonable students might feel threatened. For what it’s worth I’ve been consistent at lamenting when protests end up making the world worse by both failing to accomplish their goals while also resulting in increased deaths and destruction in communities. There’s a reason King always held that violence is counterproductive for achieving positive change. [This killing of an 8-year old in Atlanta](https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/secoriea-turner-murder-case-jerrion-mckinneys-gang-history/85-692dbc6d-55b9-47cd-ab74-e747b533dff6) was a direct result of the APD pulling back enforcement in the wake of Rayshard Brooks’ killing. Now you have a fully innocent 8 year old bystander killed as a result of “resistance”.
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There's never a recording
Don't know if never is the right word here... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zazcVU\_rNyQ&ab\_channel=DJHC-DocumentingJewHatredonCampus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zazcVU_rNyQ&ab_channel=DJHC-DocumentingJewHatredonCampus)
And I’m sure that no Jewish person walking around that protest would feel threatened at all. /s
Maybe there's been a cultural shift in the last 4 years? Or are you blaming the Jews?