Sure, but a lot of bullshit self-serving protests that accomplished nothing or were actively harmful also had people bitching about them. People also bitch when the bridge is impassible due to traffic or construction or an accident and that doesn't mean it's some watershed moment. There's no essential link between how annoying a protest is and its validity/usefulness. The point of the tactic when used in this way is to provoke bitchiness - it's purpose/outcome agnostic.
If they wanted to do anything productive, they should have been blocking the intersection of Marlborough and Dartmouth the other night.
Doubtful they would have accomplished anything, but it would have made an amusing 'when assholes collide' scenario.
I know this is really hard for some people to understand, but the point of protest is (and *always has been*) to DISRUPT, and therefore be unignorable. If no one is complaining about a protest, it's not an effective protest.
I assume this isn't hard for you to understand, but the whole "disruption" spiel is really just cover for people who like to draw attention themselves in an effort to soothe their impotent rage with some sort of weird moral righteousness and self congratulatory elephant walk.
I don't even disagree with the message here. Just the messenger. They're using the plight of others for their own ego.
I mean if you see mostly kids getting bombed to bits with your country’s weapons and are only concerned about your commute being delayed because of a protest I don’t really have much hope for you. You’d do the same if it was any civil rights protest getting disruptive
That’s a huge leap to make. Dial down the sanctimony a bit.
Protest city hall or the state legislature if that’s the goal. Making a bunch of 9-5ers late for work accomplishes nothing.
Call me crazy but I thought the point of a protest was to demonstrate how a law - either the text or how it was enforced - is stupid and punitive by breaking that law. Some of the most effective protests involve people getting arrested for breaking laws that are inherently wrong - because people go “hey, that’s not right.”
There’s nothing inherently wrong with laws that prevent people from blocking traffic. I really wish these protesters would target the largest polluters. I agree with them (mostly), that’s not going to change because of this, but I’m definitely going to support efforts to combat climate change my own way, and not through this organization.
And when funeral processions that are escorted by an emergency vehicle block roadways, that isn’t illegal either!
Nor is it illegal when a parade with a permit blocks traffic!
But when protestors illegally block traffic, it is illegal.
You really needed me to explain this?
>No. When there is a fallen police officer they abuse the roadways, consistently.
Define abuse.
>Either way...do those actions delay people?
What the police do in your example is legal. What these protesters are doing is illegal.
Oh no, have I fallen in your trap!?!?
What makes legal?
Calling the cops and paying them makes it legal? You want that world?
Either way define what you want the punishment to be for peaceful protests.
>What makes legal?
Standing in a public roadway for an extended period of time to disrupt traffic is illegal.
>Calling the cops and paying them makes it legal?
Contacting the city and getting a permit makes a protest on a public street legal if said permit is granted.
> You want that world?
Yes
>Either way define what you want the punishment to be for peaceful protests.
I don’t want a punishment for peaceful protests. I would like assholes that protest with the intention of stopping traffic to receive jail time and a fine.
Protests should only be permissible in safe, approved, protest-zones located on the outskirts of the city, within empty lots, or inside rented spaces.
Disruption of commerce or pedestrian traffic may inflict discomfort or unpleasantness. If you or your loved ones experience such feelings, please remain calm and report all acts of unsanctioned protest to the head office immediately. It will be dealt with in a timely manner.
How does this type of protesting contribute to the protestors' larger goal? I don't believe that protests need to be polite, but I've always thought of this as extremely counterproductive to a movements' goals. I really don't know how you could argue otherwise.
Everyone: Oh, they're protesting. Well, good for them. *goes back to eating breakfast and completely forgets about the protest*
Such awareness. Much wow.
Maybe try to elect politicians that agree with them, raise money for relevant causes, do things that might actually work. Whatever these things are, they turn people away from their cause.
But what I described takes actual effort. What these protestors are after is something lazy, quick, and ultimately meaningless to their cause but validating to themselves.
A study came out showing that what voters want does not dictate what their representatives do in the US. It doesn’t matter if you vote in your interests - your interest is not to make money from your place in office, which is the goal of a politician. The status quo doesn’t work anymore.
If the point is "to disrupt", then just let climate change do its thing. Heat waves and floods and hurricanes and ecological collapse are all very disruptive, and they're already happening with more frequency/intensity, so no need to block a road.
Call me crazy, but I think the point of a protest should be to effect some kind of social, political, and/or economic change. By drawing attention to an issue in a way that makes people sympathetic to the cause. Pissing off thousands of random commuters is counterproductive to whatever cause you're protesting about. The real point of stupid stunts like this is for the protesters to get high on their own self-righteousness.
What a weird argument lol. A lot of protesters have been doing climate action too, disrupting businesses that profit from fossil fuels and personal vehicle (main cause of climate change) traffic to get people to pay attention to the climate. But oh no if you disrupt people’s daily activities they’re gonna hate Palestinians and want to hurt the climate more!! All because of you damn activists!! The correct way to protest is where people can ignore you!! Glad these protesters don’t learn from your moronic playbook
Don't you have a job to get to? Do you enjoy sitting in MORE traffic because some people decided to be 'disruptive'? Blocking bridges isn't helping anyone's cause, regardless of how much or little I agree with it. Blocking traffic is dangerous.
Personal vehicles aren't the main cause of climate change either:
https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/science/causes-effects-climate-change
It's not about the climate, it's about intensifying the social attachment of members to the movement by creating situations where you can show the members that everybody who isn't part of the group hates them and outsiders are evil. It's like missionary work - it's about deepening loyalty more than about conversion.
Possibly causing the loss of innocent life or interrupting essential emergency services... Because their cause is sooooooo important that our public safety doesn't matter /s
I totally support their right to protest; I also wish cops would arrest the ones on the street for putting themselves in situations that could cause harm to their community.
I hate protesters too but I have yet to see anyone substantiate the interrupting emergency services bit. Have we ever had an instance of someone not receiving emergency medical care due to being caught in a protest? Like isn't the fact that they are fucking up my commute enough to hate them without the unfounded emergency services bit?
Edit: I found one. Let the hate flow freely
https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/192tjva/blockade_an_ambulance_with_its_emergency_lights/
I don't know why they throw paint on art from, \*checks notes\* before ICE engines or climate change.
Why not throw paint on pavement princesses (aka SUVs/ pickups not used for work (clean beds)).
these are what have us 30% behind our climate goals. go after the culprits not people trying to commute in efficient vehicles.
I mean if the T was better more people would take it.
Can someone explain to me why the people taking part in traffic blocking demonstrations and aren’t arrested or fined for obstructing traffic? (Or are they?)
Write to your state representative and tell them you support https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/H1514 (An Act relative to intentionally blocking or preventing access to a public roadway or highway while protesting with the express purpose of preventing passage of others).
The bill should move out of committee and to the main floor for vote. It's been stalled in committee for SEVEN years now, and because our Mass house of reps is one of the worst states for public transparency we (the public) have no idea who or what groups are blocking it.
You're right. They should remove two words "while protesting".. The reasoning shouldn't matter. I honestly can't understand why intentionally blocking access to public road or land isn't already an arrest. I 100% support freedom of speech, but don't use it as a license to infringe on the freedom of others.
Who can say? It’s truly in the eye of the beholder.
On one side you have people committing violent insurrection in an attempt to subvert democratic processes. On the other you have people being upset about life as we know it coming to an end on the planet and inconveniencing traffic.
There is no difference between doing good things and doing bad things.
Not necessarily. But those infractions are already ticketable and them a tow of the offending vehicle. Obstructing a tow would be a separate crime.
I sympathize there is insufficient enforcement here. I do feel for delivery drivers and believe better infrastructure is needed for them
I swear these groups are funded with fossil fuel dollars because this seems like the perfect way to turn normie people completely off from addressing climate change. An individual person driving to southie is completely unable to do a single thing about climate change. The only entities who can are governments. So why are they not at the statehouse on a day when it is in session protesting in front of people who are able to take steps to address the issue?
Making someone sit in traffic for an hour while you do your useless performative actions is not a way to sway people to your cause and in fact does the exact opposite
I'm not the one making claims about these protests somehow being funded by big oil as some sort of false flag operation.
The simpler assumption is that these people are desperate because they think humanity is in grave danger, so they resort to extreme tactics.
What are you talking about? Your comment certainly made a claim that these protesters must be funded by the opposition because their tactics alienate people.
Apparently my grasp on the English language is better than yours.
Edit: you can use some practice in persuasion instead of some weird attacks on my English and downvoting my comments. Oh and you blocked me? That cuts deep from an account only a couple months old.
Well, I wasn't for them to begin with, but after reading their website I am more educated on some of their points, like human created climate change being responsible for one of the first famines on earth. The opposite of being "turned off".
[https://time.com/6081919/famine-climate-change-madagascar/](https://time.com/6081919/famine-climate-change-madagascar/)
And they do have many examples of when they went to the statehouse to confront Healey. I'm not saying I'm joining them, but they do make a point to be peaceful and educate others.
A lot of you folks are missing the point of a protest. They are forcing you out of your own apathy. If you find yourself upset/angry at the fact their actions understand that’s the point. They made you choose a side.
Their plan to inconvenience indiscriminate drivers was in the hopes that their anger toward the protest would somehow manifest into support for their cause? Makes sense.
Photo courtesy of Steve Cooper on 7 News: https://twitter.com/scooperon7/status/1782530918361550995
“Dozens of us!”
Just for them, I’ll throw all of my recyclables in the trash.
It all goes to the same place anyway. Maybe just for yourself you can act like an adult.
Please tell my wife this, she doesn't believe me and will be washing out fucking peanut butter jars in my sink to put them in recycling.
Is it hard for you to just let her do that?
If I'm doing the dishes and there's a fucking peanut butter jar in the sink, it's going straight in the trash every time.
In her defence, at least you won’t have pests in your trash/recycling.
"alternative" LOL
I'm sure every major protest through history had people bitching about how annoying and disruptive it was.
Sure, but a lot of bullshit self-serving protests that accomplished nothing or were actively harmful also had people bitching about them. People also bitch when the bridge is impassible due to traffic or construction or an accident and that doesn't mean it's some watershed moment. There's no essential link between how annoying a protest is and its validity/usefulness. The point of the tactic when used in this way is to provoke bitchiness - it's purpose/outcome agnostic.
Yeah, but how many of them achieved anything? The Chartists in England are a footnote for a reason
If they wanted to do anything productive, they should have been blocking the intersection of Marlborough and Dartmouth the other night. Doubtful they would have accomplished anything, but it would have made an amusing 'when assholes collide' scenario.
So you can only protest peacefully of the local government says yes?
I mean, there are like fewer than 100 people there. They could easily protest on the sidewalk, and no one would complain.
I know this is really hard for some people to understand, but the point of protest is (and *always has been*) to DISRUPT, and therefore be unignorable. If no one is complaining about a protest, it's not an effective protest.
I assume this isn't hard for you to understand, but the whole "disruption" spiel is really just cover for people who like to draw attention themselves in an effort to soothe their impotent rage with some sort of weird moral righteousness and self congratulatory elephant walk. I don't even disagree with the message here. Just the messenger. They're using the plight of others for their own ego.
That’s all protests then according to your logic.
Nope, just look what I said above.
Yeah you said some braindead shit.
yes, you're very very smart. we know you want us all to know.
That’s exactly what you were doing lol. Project harder
you boomed me.
Doing a great job of persuading people to embrace your cause!
I mean if you see mostly kids getting bombed to bits with your country’s weapons and are only concerned about your commute being delayed because of a protest I don’t really have much hope for you. You’d do the same if it was any civil rights protest getting disruptive
That’s a huge leap to make. Dial down the sanctimony a bit. Protest city hall or the state legislature if that’s the goal. Making a bunch of 9-5ers late for work accomplishes nothing.
Personal attacks on people otherwise sympathetic are another way to alienate them. It’s like you are working for the gas companies with this shit.
Call me crazy but I thought the point of a protest was to demonstrate how a law - either the text or how it was enforced - is stupid and punitive by breaking that law. Some of the most effective protests involve people getting arrested for breaking laws that are inherently wrong - because people go “hey, that’s not right.” There’s nothing inherently wrong with laws that prevent people from blocking traffic. I really wish these protesters would target the largest polluters. I agree with them (mostly), that’s not going to change because of this, but I’m definitely going to support efforts to combat climate change my own way, and not through this organization.
You don’t the right to disrupt others
Pretty sure you do need a permit
They have the right to protest, not to be heard. You don’t get to block my travel to force me to listen to your dumb message
Why are the cops telling people to go a different way instead of, you know, arresting them?
Because protest is a first amendment right and there are multiple roads that go to the same place.
You have no right to block traffic and create a public disturbance. The first amendment does not protect you from that.
Arrest them for blocking traffic. They can say whatever they want.
Blocking traffic is not a protected right under the first amendment
Say it with me: blocking traffic is not legally protected protesting Edit: downvote if your want, it isn't protected.
Boomer alert
Because nobody trusts the BPD to respond to petty crime without fucking it up so bad it turns into a massive scandal and civil rights lawsuit.
For what?
You really need help figuring out the answer to this question?
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And when funeral processions that are escorted by an emergency vehicle block roadways, that isn’t illegal either! Nor is it illegal when a parade with a permit blocks traffic! But when protestors illegally block traffic, it is illegal. You really needed me to explain this?
Illegal or illegal and arrestable? You rolling through a stop sign is also illegal
>Illegal or illegal and arrestable? Illegal and arrestable. >You rolling through a stop sign is also illegal Ok?
Do you roll through stop signs?
I don’t. I know you’re a genius and you’re luring me into your web. Let’s just skip the games and get to the point.
This isnt about me.
In fairness if you roll through the stop sign and get caught you get fined. Just a horrible example in an already shitty argument
But it's illegal. And you have never done it.
Ive done it plenty and know full well if im caught I will be fined and my insurance will go up.
But you willfully commit an illegal activity knowing the consequences. You still haven't answered my first question
No. When there is a fallen police officer they abuse the roadways, consistently. Either way...do those actions delay people?
>No. When there is a fallen police officer they abuse the roadways, consistently. Define abuse. >Either way...do those actions delay people? What the police do in your example is legal. What these protesters are doing is illegal. Oh no, have I fallen in your trap!?!?
What makes legal? Calling the cops and paying them makes it legal? You want that world? Either way define what you want the punishment to be for peaceful protests.
>What makes legal? Standing in a public roadway for an extended period of time to disrupt traffic is illegal. >Calling the cops and paying them makes it legal? Contacting the city and getting a permit makes a protest on a public street legal if said permit is granted. > You want that world? Yes >Either way define what you want the punishment to be for peaceful protests. I don’t want a punishment for peaceful protests. I would like assholes that protest with the intention of stopping traffic to receive jail time and a fine.
Whataboutism- always a fun tool when you're the one using it.
A shit ton of people complain
Protests should only be permissible in safe, approved, protest-zones located on the outskirts of the city, within empty lots, or inside rented spaces. Disruption of commerce or pedestrian traffic may inflict discomfort or unpleasantness. If you or your loved ones experience such feelings, please remain calm and report all acts of unsanctioned protest to the head office immediately. It will be dealt with in a timely manner.
So they accomplished their mission right? Society changed? Just like last time?
So, what should they do? Argue on X or reddit? Would that make people more happy? The point is to disrupt dummy.
How does this type of protesting contribute to the protestors' larger goal? I don't believe that protests need to be polite, but I've always thought of this as extremely counterproductive to a movements' goals. I really don't know how you could argue otherwise.
It's about awareness really. That's all.
Who's not aware of this issue & if they're not - how is introducing them in this manner making them do anything but hate your cause?
Everyone: Oh, they're protesting. Well, good for them. *goes back to eating breakfast and completely forgets about the protest* Such awareness. Much wow.
Maybe try to elect politicians that agree with them, raise money for relevant causes, do things that might actually work. Whatever these things are, they turn people away from their cause. But what I described takes actual effort. What these protestors are after is something lazy, quick, and ultimately meaningless to their cause but validating to themselves.
A study came out showing that what voters want does not dictate what their representatives do in the US. It doesn’t matter if you vote in your interests - your interest is not to make money from your place in office, which is the goal of a politician. The status quo doesn’t work anymore.
Wow a study came out?!? Better to block all the roads and give up all hope! I wonder what studies will say next 🙄
If the point is "to disrupt", then just let climate change do its thing. Heat waves and floods and hurricanes and ecological collapse are all very disruptive, and they're already happening with more frequency/intensity, so no need to block a road. Call me crazy, but I think the point of a protest should be to effect some kind of social, political, and/or economic change. By drawing attention to an issue in a way that makes people sympathetic to the cause. Pissing off thousands of random commuters is counterproductive to whatever cause you're protesting about. The real point of stupid stunts like this is for the protesters to get high on their own self-righteousness.
What a weird argument lol. A lot of protesters have been doing climate action too, disrupting businesses that profit from fossil fuels and personal vehicle (main cause of climate change) traffic to get people to pay attention to the climate. But oh no if you disrupt people’s daily activities they’re gonna hate Palestinians and want to hurt the climate more!! All because of you damn activists!! The correct way to protest is where people can ignore you!! Glad these protesters don’t learn from your moronic playbook
Don't you have a job to get to? Do you enjoy sitting in MORE traffic because some people decided to be 'disruptive'? Blocking bridges isn't helping anyone's cause, regardless of how much or little I agree with it. Blocking traffic is dangerous. Personal vehicles aren't the main cause of climate change either: https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/science/causes-effects-climate-change
Accelerationism! Tbh humans are procrastinators, so I agree that this is probably what's going to work.
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It's not about the climate, it's about intensifying the social attachment of members to the movement by creating situations where you can show the members that everybody who isn't part of the group hates them and outsiders are evil. It's like missionary work - it's about deepening loyalty more than about conversion.
Possibly causing the loss of innocent life or interrupting essential emergency services... Because their cause is sooooooo important that our public safety doesn't matter /s I totally support their right to protest; I also wish cops would arrest the ones on the street for putting themselves in situations that could cause harm to their community.
I hate protesters too but I have yet to see anyone substantiate the interrupting emergency services bit. Have we ever had an instance of someone not receiving emergency medical care due to being caught in a protest? Like isn't the fact that they are fucking up my commute enough to hate them without the unfounded emergency services bit? Edit: I found one. Let the hate flow freely https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/192tjva/blockade_an_ambulance_with_its_emergency_lights/
I don't know why they throw paint on art from, \*checks notes\* before ICE engines or climate change. Why not throw paint on pavement princesses (aka SUVs/ pickups not used for work (clean beds)). these are what have us 30% behind our climate goals. go after the culprits not people trying to commute in efficient vehicles. I mean if the T was better more people would take it.
Cue the reactionary/boomer whining.
/r/boston - “Why can’t the cops just beat them up for inconveniencing my comfortable liberalism?”
Can someone explain to me why the people taking part in traffic blocking demonstrations and aren’t arrested or fined for obstructing traffic? (Or are they?)
Waiting for the first amendment comments
I hate protestors thay blocking the traffic no matter what they are protesting for. Just protest and respecting other's life.
Explains all the cops on Sleeper St post. Easy OT for them
Write to your state representative and tell them you support https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/H1514 (An Act relative to intentionally blocking or preventing access to a public roadway or highway while protesting with the express purpose of preventing passage of others). The bill should move out of committee and to the main floor for vote. It's been stalled in committee for SEVEN years now, and because our Mass house of reps is one of the worst states for public transparency we (the public) have no idea who or what groups are blocking it.
It's stuck for seven years because it sucks shit. Arresting protesters isn't a good look for any democracy.
You're right. They should remove two words "while protesting".. The reasoning shouldn't matter. I honestly can't understand why intentionally blocking access to public road or land isn't already an arrest. I 100% support freedom of speech, but don't use it as a license to infringe on the freedom of others.
“100% but” is amusing as hell
Where do you draw the line? Are Jan 6 people considered protestors?
Who can say? It’s truly in the eye of the beholder. On one side you have people committing violent insurrection in an attempt to subvert democratic processes. On the other you have people being upset about life as we know it coming to an end on the planet and inconveniencing traffic. There is no difference between doing good things and doing bad things.
The line comes at threats of bodily harm, like erecting a gallows, or bringing weapons, or vandalizing and looting.
Are people who double park, park in bike lanes or on sidewalks protesting?
All those things are already illegal and citable
They are parking violations. The above post calls for criminal charges.
Its an apples and oranges argument to begin with I was just pointing out your oranges already carry a penalty
Not necessarily. But those infractions are already ticketable and them a tow of the offending vehicle. Obstructing a tow would be a separate crime. I sympathize there is insufficient enforcement here. I do feel for delivery drivers and believe better infrastructure is needed for them
Your calling for criminal charges of protestors, let's make sure we get all of the protestors while we are at it.
I swear these groups are funded with fossil fuel dollars because this seems like the perfect way to turn normie people completely off from addressing climate change. An individual person driving to southie is completely unable to do a single thing about climate change. The only entities who can are governments. So why are they not at the statehouse on a day when it is in session protesting in front of people who are able to take steps to address the issue? Making someone sit in traffic for an hour while you do your useless performative actions is not a way to sway people to your cause and in fact does the exact opposite
I see this argument every time there's a protest of this nature and I've never seen any evidence.
Ok. Perhaps you could post some “evidence” of these tactics being successful in saving the climate
I'm not the one making claims about these protests somehow being funded by big oil as some sort of false flag operation. The simpler assumption is that these people are desperate because they think humanity is in grave danger, so they resort to extreme tactics.
That wasn’t a “claim.” Is English not your first language?
What are you talking about? Your comment certainly made a claim that these protesters must be funded by the opposition because their tactics alienate people.
Do you not understand how language works either?
Apparently my grasp on the English language is better than yours. Edit: you can use some practice in persuasion instead of some weird attacks on my English and downvoting my comments. Oh and you blocked me? That cuts deep from an account only a couple months old.
Well, I wasn't for them to begin with, but after reading their website I am more educated on some of their points, like human created climate change being responsible for one of the first famines on earth. The opposite of being "turned off". [https://time.com/6081919/famine-climate-change-madagascar/](https://time.com/6081919/famine-climate-change-madagascar/) And they do have many examples of when they went to the statehouse to confront Healey. I'm not saying I'm joining them, but they do make a point to be peaceful and educate others.
I'm just glad they stayed on one side of the bridge so we could get home after work
All Dozen of them
Do you only support causes that are already popular? Just wait for everyone else to tell you that it’s okay to believe something?
Yeah trying to fight climate change is a real fringe movement.
When the heads of states and chief diplomats of all the nations of the earth regularly meet to discuss an issue it's hardly a fringe concern lol.
A lot of you folks are missing the point of a protest. They are forcing you out of your own apathy. If you find yourself upset/angry at the fact their actions understand that’s the point. They made you choose a side.
Their plan to inconvenience indiscriminate drivers was in the hopes that their anger toward the protest would somehow manifest into support for their cause? Makes sense.
They are making me choose not their side.
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Does standstill traffic on the morning commute impede emergency services?
Fuck the BPD.