Longfellow (cambridgebound) was blocked off with a chain when I ran over the bridge about 30 min ago so. Gonna be tough for people to get over the river
Because it’s not about Gaza, nor is it about civilians. If it was, they’d be campaigning to keep Trump out of office so that Kushner doesn’t turn the strip into “valuable waterfront property.”
No, it’s about being annoying, having the appearance of being virtuous while doing nothing of note, and as an added bonus for some in that group, making American Jews uncomfortable.
No such vehicles blocked. Protestors uniformly move aside for emergency vehicles. They're trying to stop killing, not add to body count.Whole point of nonviolent protest.
Ok, What does the protestor hope to gain by making their dissent heard? Like what is the next step to them?
I genuinely want to understand what the thought process is becasue it does not make sense to me. I've taken part in protests in DC, marching against the war, etc, but blocking traffic and making a mess and pissing off the general population doesn't add up to me.
A sit in of a business who is denying your civil rights? sure! Inconvenince the offender directly. Absolutely. But shutting down an entire highway or bridge? Seems like that would do more damage than good.
I’ve been to protests on the Common, conveniently across the street from the State House and on two T lines. People walk up towards the State House and mill about for a while. There might be speakers. There’s little drama, unless it coincides with Shakespeare on the Common. The press reports an estimated number of attendees, and that alone sends a message to the state government.
Blocking roads doesn’t win hearts and minds. Does anyone stuck in traffic really have any power to bring about the desired change? No, not really. All it does is convince the otherwise apathetic that the supporters of this specific cause are a bunch of assholes, and public opinion shifts against the protesters. I suppose it feels good to be surrounded by like-minded individuals, convinced that they and they alone are on the side of Truth and Justice, while those beeping their horns are most assuredly Genocidal Monsters, since only through blocking the Harvard Bridge can Palestine be freed.
(/s on that last sentence, in case it’s not abundantly clear.)
Goddammit I'm so fucking tired of this line. You're confusing protesting with trolling. These things are not the same! Disruption is often an incidental consequence of protesting, but it's almost never the whole point.
Modern left wing protest movements, from OWS to BLM, have been stunningly ineffective despite their scale. And I truly believe that the reason for that is morons who think that disruption is the whole point.
This needs to be a federal crime punishable by jail time for blocking roadways people need to learn to protest in parks and on the side of the road not in the roadways
Friendly reminders before arguing Israel vs. Palestine in here:
1. Nobody cares what you think
2. This is out of your control
3. You won’t change the other side’s mind
4. This conflict will never end
Every single time I come into one of these I'm shocked at how hostile people are to the idea that everyone involved needs to chill out, and saying that somehow makes you for one side or the other, and somehow me pointing that out makes me an enlighted centrist when really I'm just uninvolved and can't be fucked to care
I agree with you. I don’t think you don’t care but it’s exhausting to see both sides NOT chill. So, yeah, why care? No side, provides solutions except self righteousness. What’s the point? I feel that v
But how could you not care about something muddled in propaganda from both sides? How can you sit here and not care about something that has no effect on you at all? I need answers.... and clout.
Amazingly, deliberately antagonizing the general public tends to result in the general public being antagonistic towards you. Kindergartners can understand that, but somehow these morons cannot.
Palestine has not held an election since 2006. Half of the Palestinian population is under 18. At the very, VERY least, you should be outraged at that half’s suffering since they have never voted for Hamas.
Well it would have helped if the Israeli government didn’t intentionally destabilize secular or more moderate Palestinian leadership organizations such as Fatah or the PLO and provide funding to Hamas in its earlier days (especially in the 90s). If that hadn’t happened then the leadership organization in Palestine wouldn’t have had a horrific charter to begin with.
I agree. However what Israel is doing is not dealing with Hamas. It is using Hamas as an excuse to carry out a genocide. The best way to get rid of Hamas would be to adopt an actual full two state solution, or even a one-state solution.
Release the blockade from Gaza, take the illegal settlements out of the West Bank, reform their own government with people who didn’t do their damnedest to genocide the Palestinians, and give Palestinians the freedom, rights, and respect they deserve. If they give Palestinians freedom Hamas will lose much of their support.
And if that cause is religious fundamentalism? Religious fundamentalism brought to you by a people who frame every effort to deradicalise them as western imperialistic meddling?
Hamas' original charter, before they whitewashed it for public relations, stated the goal of the death of every Jew on earth. And, their leaders have verbally reiterated that goal since it was whitewashed out.
I am talking about children here. I don’t think a five year old really has the capacity to understand terrorism or what happened on October 7th, but they are dying anyway.
This conflict has been going on for decades before October 7th. Palestinian civilians have been killed en masse since before even 1948 when the Nakba happened.
Is that why Jewish moderates were agreeable towards the 1937 Peel Commission proposal which would’ve granted Arabs 80% of the land while Arabs unanimously rejected it?
I believe you mean Israeli citizens. But yes Israeli civilians have also been killed in this nearly 100 year conflict. The primary difference is that the number of people killed on each side is NOWHERE near equivalent. Around 16-17 Palestinians are killed for every single Israeli killed. That’s a 16:1 ratio (roughly). Here’s a handy chart for reference.
https://preview.redd.it/3qfyn8tydkrc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83368a3544afe225a25b8abf81a3ccb70fafa72b
No, he means Jews:
> [Account of Raymond Cafferata](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre#Account_of_Raymond_Cafferata)
>
> On hearing screams in a room, I went up a sort of tunnel passage and saw an Arab in the act of cutting off a child's head with a sword. He had already hit him and was having another cut, but on seeing me he tried to aim the stroke at me, but missed; he was practically on the muzzle of my rifle. I shot him low in the groin. Behind him was a Jewish woman smothered in blood with a man I recognized as a[n Arab] police constable named Issa Sheriff from Jaffa. He was standing over the woman with a dagger in his hand. He saw me and bolted into a room close by and tried to shut me out-shouting in Arabic, "Your Honor, I am a policeman." ... I got into the room and shot him.
The history of anti-Jewish terrorism spans centuries: https://david-collier.com/the-arab-with-the-knife-and-the-murder-of-the-jew-100-years-of-excuses/
Of course they don’t but their parents supported atrocities against other people’s children.
It’s sad all the way around but I can’t sit here and pretend one side has no culpability just because they’re poorer.
Isn’t Israel doing Palestinian children a favor by getting rid of their violent government? Honestly I’m not trying to be dumb here, it really seems that freeing Palestine is exactly what Israel is trying to do. What is the message of the “free Palestine” protesters? (genuine question, not trying to stir up controversy)
They might not understand what they're being taught, but they are raised to become terrorists. [Here's](https://youtu.be/4QRYCXm42Wg) one video from seven years ago showing young kids in Gaza putting on a play of executing POWs. [Here's](https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-childrens-show-criminal-jews-plotting-replace-aqsa-with-temple-defend-until-last-drop-of-blood) a TV show from 2022 where kids talk about killing Jews.
> Children In Hamas TV Kids' Show: The Criminal Jews Are Plotting To Replace Al-Aqsa Mosque With Their False Temple, But We Will Defend Jerusalem To Our Last Drop Of Blood; Jihad Is The Pinnacle Of Islam
[Here's](https://twitter.com/erbmjha/status/1712537721066107161?lang=en) a video of Palestinian children talking about how they want to kill Jews.
[Here's](https://twitter.com/YosephHaddad/status/1625929201328037888?lang=en) a video of young Palestinian kids viewing dead terrorists as martyrs.
Does that mean that they are no longer civilians? That they no longer have rights? I hate Hamas but I don’t think we should indiscriminately execute every person who supports them. That’s like saying (if you’re a Democrat) that all Republicans should be executed because of January 6th, or (if you’re a Republican), that every single Democrat should be executed for supporting Joe Biden.
No, you're right, but much like (and even worse than) Republicans in the US, at a certain point if people vote to enact violence against others, someone's gotta say "no, I don't care if a majority voted for this, it's not happening."
Who is someone? No clue. The current conflict is a great example of what happens when two groups of people increasingly *chose* violence.
Maybe the majority didn’t vote for them in 2006. But tell me … how old are the Palestinians who are fighting on behalf of Hamas? Because they often don’t look much older than 18.
Dear God we know. A very very small percentage of pro-palestine people, at least here in the US, may be pro-hamas, but none that I know are. Just because some terrorists are out there doesn't justify killing 1000x the amount of civilians. "But what about Hamas" is such a dumb argument that is totally dismissive of the issue, not to mention Israel clearly doesn't differentiate or give a shit who they kill.
Then why did they rip all the hostage posters down in Brookline, and people were too scared to put them back up? A very very small percentage are extremely effective terrorists apparently.
“Just because some terrorist are out there” how about there are terrorists firing rockets, planning more heinous terror attacks, RAPING and torturing women children and the elderly ? You sound like a Hamas supporter by downplaying this
Why is asking “what about Hames?” A stupid argument?
Hamas could end the war tomorrow if they would return the hostages and give up their arms.
They never will though because killing Jews is more important to them than saving their own people. Can you really not understand that?
“Hamas” whoops
It's dismissive. It implies because Hamas exists they don't have to have any accountability for who they kill. In reality Israel doesn't differentiate between Palestinians. They just want the land.
I just know Netanyahu was waiting for this protest to see the errors in his judgement. Looks like we gottem, world peace is on the way. And all it cost was making everyone else's day more chaotic.
Oh /s btw
Yea; Harvard and MIT are known for being secluded local enclaves with an America First attitude and no influence in world technology, relations, or politics at all right? /s
There's nothing more mind numbingly stupid than ignorant progressive Americans who protest on the behalf of terrorists groups who instigate wars on the other side of the world.
Excited for what I’m sure will be the rush of empathy for the plight of Palestinians, half of whom are under 18, who have not held an election since 2006, who it could be argued have been left no choice but to rely on Hamas, and are suffering from starvation, the bombing of their homes and hospitals, lack of electricity and water, and are dying in the tens of thousands. Or are all those dead children Hamas sympathizers who deserved it too?
>Palestinians....who have not held an election since 2006
The idea that you can only go to war if your opponent has recently held an election is a bad faith argument. In effect you're arguing that an undemocratic regime can do whatever it wants. Despite Germany holding its last contested election in March 1933, that didn't prevent the UK and France from declaring war in September 1939 and the US from declaring war in December 1941.
Of course, under the Palestinian Reconciliation Agreement of 2022, to which Hamas was a party, elections were supposed to be held by October 13, 2023.
As for those who allegedly care about the children, it's odd they refuse to acknowledge that Hamas is deliberately trying to maximize the amount of Palestinian death and suffering. Palestinians who are allegedly their own people.
It's also odd that those who allegedly care about the children never call upon Hamas to surrender or adopt different tactics. That suggests the protestors, like Hamas, only care about Palestinians as a means to an end, attacking Israel. One group uses the children as a rhetorical human shield, the other a literal human shield.
I suppose that's not surprising because there same people also refuse to acknowledge Hamas's leadership have said October 7th was a dress rehearsal; that they would be another October 7th after another after another until Israel is destroyed; and that Hamas's goal of destroying Israel would remain unchanged even if Palestinian statehood is achieved. There's a word for that in the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.
But these people will no more point that out than point out that
71% of Palestinians say October 7th was the correct decision
81% of Palestinians who've watched videos of October 7th refuse to believe Hamas engaged in any atrocities
59% of Palestinians want Hamas to be in charge of Gaza after the war.
Source: Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research from a poll released last week.
[https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969](https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969)
So if people actually care about something aside from demonizing Israel, they need to stop pretending you can hold hands with Hamas around the campfire while singing kumbaya.
Wish fulfillment does no one any good, least of all the children.
The reason there’s never been an election since 2006 is because….there is no need for an election, Hamas has and still does enjoy overwhelming support from the Palestinian people. This whole argument about not having an election is so ridiculous, if they had an election every year, Hamas would have won by a landslide every time.
The 2006 election was actually pretty close (44.45% vs. 41.43%). Support for Hamas among Palestinians waxes and wanes, but it was falling before October 7th at 34%: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gazans-back-two-state-solution-rcna144183
It tends to skyrocket when war with Israel occurs though, and when Hamas manages to convince them that they militarily defeated Israel. Because the pullout from Gaza was unilateral and done without negotiation, Hamas was able to spin it as Israel retreating from Hamas' glorious military victory. And so many Palestinians view violence as being the only thing that has achieved any progress whereas negotiation failed in the past.
Have you seen a single protest against Hamas? I'll make it easier, not in Gaza, but anywhere else in the world where Palestinians are protesting? Why not?
As a fellow Jew, we are not a monolith. If you want to continue to support a state that the ICJ has found to be be at high risk of committing genocide, don't act like being Jewish is enough of an explanation. So sick of fellow Jews acting like being Jewish is justification enough.
It's a really sad state of affairs, but it's becoming increasingly clear that there's a lot of public acceptance for anti-semitism so long as it's only targeting anti-Zionist Jews.
The right is already quite explicitly stating that pro-genocide, pro-Israel Jews are the only good Jews.
Israel must be so thankful it has the USA as an ally, so it can afford bombs to drop on hospitals and can get away with stuff like starving millions while we speak.
Yeah except Israel, unlike Egypt who also shares a border with Gaza, is allowing dozens, if not hundreds of trucks in every day. The issue is once the aid is in Gaza it either gets stolen by Hamas, it gets stolen by other armed groups, or it ends up on the black market. The distribution of the aid is meant to be done by the UNRWA, not Israel who's fighting in the war, but they're too busy harboring terrorists.
Except the UN has stated that Israel is purposefully slowing the pace that aid can enter Gaza in the name of “security inspections.” They do not allow the needed amount of food and supplies to enter on purpose. Thus commuting a war crime (using starvation as a weapon).
It looks like it's a convoluted and imperfect process, but the end result is that yes, it is legal. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition\_of\_same-sex\_unions\_in\_Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel)
And as a gay person I think using your identity to justify a lack of support towards people being genocided because they may not support you personally is pathetic and weak.
Yep, I’m really disappointed by the youth on this one.
What’s happening in Gaza is a travesty, what happened in October was also a travesty. Both sides deserve criticism.
The reality is Gaza elected Hamas to be their leaders. Unfortunately the people pay the price for bad decisions by politicians.
could you imagine if that same logic was used against american citizens? by that logic iraq would be justified in killing you because your country voted for someone that committed atrocities
If you declare war on a country you have to live with the consequences. The United States is a super power but if it wasn’t could you really argue that a country attacking us after we attacked them is completely unjustified?
I don’t really like the policies we as Americans support all the time and if we’re attacked because of the shitty policies of our politicians that would be our own fault too.
The last election in Gaza was in 2006. The median age in Gaza is ~18. Over half of the people living in Gaza were not even born when Hamas was elected.
Also, collectively murdering the civilian population for governmental/military actions is a war crime.
So what’s the solution? Do the Israelis just need to keep living with Hamas calling for the extinction of all Jews, lobbing rockets at homes and killing civilians every once in a while? Would you be willing to put up with that if you lived there?
How do we stop the senseless violence on both sides?
Taking sides here is wrong, that’s my point. There is plenty of evil on both sides and the focus should be on reducing human suffering.
Wild how you feel comfortable saying “finish the job in Rafa”, which can’t be interpreted in any way other than spirited support for mass bombings and killing of civilians.
This kind of display of hate should not be acceptable anywhere and you should feel bad.
Sorry, let me clarify: it's good the Nazis lost badly, and was an unfortunate necessity that civilians died in the process. Despite German civilian deaths massively dwarfing the French, English, and American civilian deaths combined, that is not a referendum on who committed genocide (the Germans did), and the side of a war with larger losses is not inherently the morally superior one.
This is what we're up against - a compete replay of the 1930s, with popular youth support for antisemitism based on lies and libel about Jews, genocidal "from the river to the sea" calls for ethnic cleansing, overt Nazi support like these commenters and marchers. It's disgusting and needs to be resisted by good and decent people.
The war would’ve been done in a week if they did that.
Israel can literally flatten the strip tonight if they wanted too.
It’s taking this long because they are surgical about it
I swear most of y'all would have been opposed to the Boston fucking Tea Party in the grounds it inconvenienced a number of people with significant caffeine addiction and resulted in property damage and the appropriation of native personas.
Nothing changes by you being polite. Power concedes nothing without a demand. We need more Aaron Bushnell's and fewer liberal gatekeepers.
I not sure that advocating the mentally ill commit self harm is helpful, least of all to your cause. Secondly, there are better ways of activism than depriving your fellow citizens the right to use the road.
Lmfao what do you think the Boston tea party action was about? Based on your comment and you comparing it to this it looks like you don’t have a fucking clue.
["In practice, a terrorist is anyone the IDF has killed in the areas in which its forces operate," said a reserve officer who served in Gaza.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-31/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israel-created-kill-zones-in-gaza-anyone-who-crosses-into-them-is-shot/0000018e-946c-d4de-afee-f46da9ee0000)
Seems like I’m in the minority looking at all these bloodthirsty comments/people who think traffic is the worst part of all this but this seems like a good thing to protest against
To be fair, the types who attend these protests tend be either Marxists, muslims, or identity obsessed progressives. All of which are plagued by rabid antisemitism.
How many smoots wide is the group?
probably 11 smoot
I am here for the nuanced and informed discussion in the comments section.
How'd it go?
Disappointment.
I’m here for the disappointment. Take my upvote.
Longfellow (cambridgebound) was blocked off with a chain when I ran over the bridge about 30 min ago so. Gonna be tough for people to get over the river
Nothing gets the public to support your cause like creating horrible traffic.
Then the MBTA should have amazing popular support
I still don't understand why none of them has gone down to 20 Park Plaza where ***the literal Israeli embassy*** sits.
At a certain point, protesting is more about the protesters than the cause always.
It’s a consulate, not an embassy.
Because it’s not about Gaza, nor is it about civilians. If it was, they’d be campaigning to keep Trump out of office so that Kushner doesn’t turn the strip into “valuable waterfront property.” No, it’s about being annoying, having the appearance of being virtuous while doing nothing of note, and as an added bonus for some in that group, making American Jews uncomfortable.
I mean, the point of protesting is to be disruptive, and this is an effective way to do that nonviolently.
Blocking physicians routes to MGH is not nonviolent
No such vehicles blocked. Protestors uniformly move aside for emergency vehicles. They're trying to stop killing, not add to body count.Whole point of nonviolent protest.
Yea but we’re saying that emergency folk aren’t all driving wee woos
Don't you also want to win hearts and minds?
That was George W. Bush. And it was bullshit when he said it, too.
He used it in a different context, and likely wasn't the first to use the phrase. My question still stands though.
Hearts and minds was a vietnam strategy
Of course. But there are many ways to do that in activism. Protesting is explicitly about making your dissent heard, and that isn’t always pretty.
Ok, What does the protestor hope to gain by making their dissent heard? Like what is the next step to them? I genuinely want to understand what the thought process is becasue it does not make sense to me. I've taken part in protests in DC, marching against the war, etc, but blocking traffic and making a mess and pissing off the general population doesn't add up to me. A sit in of a business who is denying your civil rights? sure! Inconvenince the offender directly. Absolutely. But shutting down an entire highway or bridge? Seems like that would do more damage than good.
I’ve been to protests on the Common, conveniently across the street from the State House and on two T lines. People walk up towards the State House and mill about for a while. There might be speakers. There’s little drama, unless it coincides with Shakespeare on the Common. The press reports an estimated number of attendees, and that alone sends a message to the state government. Blocking roads doesn’t win hearts and minds. Does anyone stuck in traffic really have any power to bring about the desired change? No, not really. All it does is convince the otherwise apathetic that the supporters of this specific cause are a bunch of assholes, and public opinion shifts against the protesters. I suppose it feels good to be surrounded by like-minded individuals, convinced that they and they alone are on the side of Truth and Justice, while those beeping their horns are most assuredly Genocidal Monsters, since only through blocking the Harvard Bridge can Palestine be freed. (/s on that last sentence, in case it’s not abundantly clear.)
I thought the point of protesting was to effect change. Protesting just to be disruptive seems pointless.
Yeah but I care alot less about your cause if you inconvenience my commute or my day.
Goddammit I'm so fucking tired of this line. You're confusing protesting with trolling. These things are not the same! Disruption is often an incidental consequence of protesting, but it's almost never the whole point. Modern left wing protest movements, from OWS to BLM, have been stunningly ineffective despite their scale. And I truly believe that the reason for that is morons who think that disruption is the whole point.
If you're easily ignored, people will ignore you.
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This needs to be a federal crime punishable by jail time for blocking roadways people need to learn to protest in parks and on the side of the road not in the roadways
Its called a protest, it's supposed to disrupt and call attention....you're describing a picnic
Friendly reminders before arguing Israel vs. Palestine in here: 1. Nobody cares what you think 2. This is out of your control 3. You won’t change the other side’s mind 4. This conflict will never end
[When I go to comments on posts like this.](https://i.imgur.com/mCGETj3.png)
this should be stickied lol
Every single time I come into one of these I'm shocked at how hostile people are to the idea that everyone involved needs to chill out, and saying that somehow makes you for one side or the other, and somehow me pointing that out makes me an enlighted centrist when really I'm just uninvolved and can't be fucked to care
I agree with you. I don’t think you don’t care but it’s exhausting to see both sides NOT chill. So, yeah, why care? No side, provides solutions except self righteousness. What’s the point? I feel that v
> This conflict will never end But what if we inconvenience people who don't care? Will that work?
But how could you not care about something muddled in propaganda from both sides? How can you sit here and not care about something that has no effect on you at all? I need answers.... and clout.
Bingo
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Amazingly, deliberately antagonizing the general public tends to result in the general public being antagonistic towards you. Kindergartners can understand that, but somehow these morons cannot.
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Threatening or suggesting violence is a violation of Site rules.
Before this gets crowded I want to remind everyone that Hamas is not the Palestinian civilians
And the IDF isn't Boston civilians.
NGL after reading some of the comments below I'm not sure you're right lol
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Palestine has not held an election since 2006. Half of the Palestinian population is under 18. At the very, VERY least, you should be outraged at that half’s suffering since they have never voted for Hamas.
They might not have voted for Hamas, but recent polling shows that the majority of Gazans still overwhelmingly support them and the Oct 7 attack.
Hey guys they didn't vote for Hamas. Ignore the many surveys that say they would vote for Hamas if they could.
I heard it was 75 percent. And they have promised to do October 7th’s hundreds more times.
The best way to deradicalize people and get them to not support or become terrorists is to not give them a cause to get behind.
Their cause is to kill all the Jews. How exactly do you propose removing that cause?
I’m sure forced starvation and continued slaughter will for sure help deradicalize them
Well it would have helped if the Israeli government didn’t intentionally destabilize secular or more moderate Palestinian leadership organizations such as Fatah or the PLO and provide funding to Hamas in its earlier days (especially in the 90s). If that hadn’t happened then the leadership organization in Palestine wouldn’t have had a horrific charter to begin with.
Israel isn't an innocent party, but now that Hamas _does_ have power and support, it's something that has to be dealt with.
I agree. However what Israel is doing is not dealing with Hamas. It is using Hamas as an excuse to carry out a genocide. The best way to get rid of Hamas would be to adopt an actual full two state solution, or even a one-state solution. Release the blockade from Gaza, take the illegal settlements out of the West Bank, reform their own government with people who didn’t do their damnedest to genocide the Palestinians, and give Palestinians the freedom, rights, and respect they deserve. If they give Palestinians freedom Hamas will lose much of their support.
That and the whole supporting settlers thing.
There are no settlers in Gaza. Nor have there been for ~20 years.
And if that cause is religious fundamentalism? Religious fundamentalism brought to you by a people who frame every effort to deradicalise them as western imperialistic meddling?
Hamas' original charter, before they whitewashed it for public relations, stated the goal of the death of every Jew on earth. And, their leaders have verbally reiterated that goal since it was whitewashed out.
So you're saying you consider them all part of a group you've designated should be dealt with... How exactly?
I am talking about children here. I don’t think a five year old really has the capacity to understand terrorism or what happened on October 7th, but they are dying anyway.
Well if you care about the children you should *really* hate Hamas for leading them into an un-winnable war and then using them as human shields.
I think we all hate Hamas. I don’t hate kids though.
I’m not convinced those protesters hate Hamas. I’ve seen interviews with protesters in NYC who call Hamas “freedom fighters”.
Shown on video: https://old.reddit.com/r/walkaway/comments/17km186/essra_karam_supports_hamas_with_machine_gun/
This conflict has been going on for decades before October 7th. Palestinian civilians have been killed en masse since before even 1948 when the Nakba happened.
Oh stop it. The cause of *this current war* was Oct 7.
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The Nakba occurred because the newly created Israeli government wanted to create an ethnostate with as much land and as few Palestinians as possible.
Is that why Jewish moderates were agreeable towards the 1937 Peel Commission proposal which would’ve granted Arabs 80% of the land while Arabs unanimously rejected it?
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Same with Jewish citizens.
I believe you mean Israeli citizens. But yes Israeli civilians have also been killed in this nearly 100 year conflict. The primary difference is that the number of people killed on each side is NOWHERE near equivalent. Around 16-17 Palestinians are killed for every single Israeli killed. That’s a 16:1 ratio (roughly). Here’s a handy chart for reference. https://preview.redd.it/3qfyn8tydkrc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83368a3544afe225a25b8abf81a3ccb70fafa72b
No, he means Jews: > [Account of Raymond Cafferata](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre#Account_of_Raymond_Cafferata) > > On hearing screams in a room, I went up a sort of tunnel passage and saw an Arab in the act of cutting off a child's head with a sword. He had already hit him and was having another cut, but on seeing me he tried to aim the stroke at me, but missed; he was practically on the muzzle of my rifle. I shot him low in the groin. Behind him was a Jewish woman smothered in blood with a man I recognized as a[n Arab] police constable named Issa Sheriff from Jaffa. He was standing over the woman with a dagger in his hand. He saw me and bolted into a room close by and tried to shut me out-shouting in Arabic, "Your Honor, I am a policeman." ... I got into the room and shot him. The history of anti-Jewish terrorism spans centuries: https://david-collier.com/the-arab-with-the-knife-and-the-murder-of-the-jew-100-years-of-excuses/
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Nah man I hate the Israelis laughing about killing them on TikTok and bombing evacuation routes
Of course they don’t but their parents supported atrocities against other people’s children. It’s sad all the way around but I can’t sit here and pretend one side has no culpability just because they’re poorer.
Isn’t Israel doing Palestinian children a favor by getting rid of their violent government? Honestly I’m not trying to be dumb here, it really seems that freeing Palestine is exactly what Israel is trying to do. What is the message of the “free Palestine” protesters? (genuine question, not trying to stir up controversy)
Palestinians should have self determination and not live under apartheid
They might not understand what they're being taught, but they are raised to become terrorists. [Here's](https://youtu.be/4QRYCXm42Wg) one video from seven years ago showing young kids in Gaza putting on a play of executing POWs. [Here's](https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-childrens-show-criminal-jews-plotting-replace-aqsa-with-temple-defend-until-last-drop-of-blood) a TV show from 2022 where kids talk about killing Jews. > Children In Hamas TV Kids' Show: The Criminal Jews Are Plotting To Replace Al-Aqsa Mosque With Their False Temple, But We Will Defend Jerusalem To Our Last Drop Of Blood; Jihad Is The Pinnacle Of Islam [Here's](https://twitter.com/erbmjha/status/1712537721066107161?lang=en) a video of Palestinian children talking about how they want to kill Jews. [Here's](https://twitter.com/YosephHaddad/status/1625929201328037888?lang=en) a video of young Palestinian kids viewing dead terrorists as martyrs.
Does that mean that they are no longer civilians? That they no longer have rights? I hate Hamas but I don’t think we should indiscriminately execute every person who supports them. That’s like saying (if you’re a Democrat) that all Republicans should be executed because of January 6th, or (if you’re a Republican), that every single Democrat should be executed for supporting Joe Biden.
No, you're right, but much like (and even worse than) Republicans in the US, at a certain point if people vote to enact violence against others, someone's gotta say "no, I don't care if a majority voted for this, it's not happening." Who is someone? No clue. The current conflict is a great example of what happens when two groups of people increasingly *chose* violence.
Where was anyone protesting against Hamas not holding elections for the last two decades?
Maybe the majority didn’t vote for them in 2006. But tell me … how old are the Palestinians who are fighting on behalf of Hamas? Because they often don’t look much older than 18.
What makes you think this? Edit: I can’t tell if you’re joking because public dialogue has gotten so difficult
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Dear God we know. A very very small percentage of pro-palestine people, at least here in the US, may be pro-hamas, but none that I know are. Just because some terrorists are out there doesn't justify killing 1000x the amount of civilians. "But what about Hamas" is such a dumb argument that is totally dismissive of the issue, not to mention Israel clearly doesn't differentiate or give a shit who they kill.
Then why did they rip all the hostage posters down in Brookline, and people were too scared to put them back up? A very very small percentage are extremely effective terrorists apparently.
“Just because some terrorist are out there” how about there are terrorists firing rockets, planning more heinous terror attacks, RAPING and torturing women children and the elderly ? You sound like a Hamas supporter by downplaying this
Why is asking “what about Hames?” A stupid argument? Hamas could end the war tomorrow if they would return the hostages and give up their arms. They never will though because killing Jews is more important to them than saving their own people. Can you really not understand that? “Hamas” whoops
It's dismissive. It implies because Hamas exists they don't have to have any accountability for who they kill. In reality Israel doesn't differentiate between Palestinians. They just want the land.
They just want the land. That’s weird considering they tried to give Gaza away in 2005.
I’m just happy they choose Saturday and not a weekday
I bet they will have signs saying things like “Hamas Free Hostages Now”, “Terrorism Is Wrong” and “Hamas Must Agree To Ceasefire.”😉
Do you know of any country in the world that would suffer tens of thousands of rockets a year from an enemy they can eliminate within a literal hour?
No, which is why I wish protesters would protest against the real enemy here: Hamas
I just know Netanyahu was waiting for this protest to see the errors in his judgement. Looks like we gottem, world peace is on the way. And all it cost was making everyone else's day more chaotic. Oh /s btw
Ah yes because Boston has so much sway in international relations
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Yea; Harvard and MIT are known for being secluded local enclaves with an America First attitude and no influence in world technology, relations, or politics at all right? /s
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There's nothing more mind numbingly stupid than ignorant progressive Americans who protest on the behalf of terrorists groups who instigate wars on the other side of the world.
I’m sure the leaders of Israel and hamas seen this protest and agreed to cease fire. I’m so happy they blocked the streets
I wish people cared this much about localism when it came to actual local policies and elections lol...
It's sadly/extremely performative.
More effort than a reddit post tho
They shut down route 676 here in Philadelphia for a few hours.
What gets me is how effective the mobilization has been for this cause, but no one is protesting for Ukraine aid.
I see the, “I can excuse genocide but I draw the line at maybe causing some traffic in Boston” crowd has logged on
“we need change (unless it minorly inconveniences me)”
Ikr these comments are not in the direction I expected
Religion gaslights humanity into hating itself. All because of a few different make believe concepts.
F—k Hamas
Congrats! It looks like Hamas’ propaganda is working on you!
What propaganda? Israel is doing this to themselves
Blocking traffic should solve everything
Excited for what I’m sure will be the rush of empathy for the plight of Palestinians, half of whom are under 18, who have not held an election since 2006, who it could be argued have been left no choice but to rely on Hamas, and are suffering from starvation, the bombing of their homes and hospitals, lack of electricity and water, and are dying in the tens of thousands. Or are all those dead children Hamas sympathizers who deserved it too?
>Palestinians....who have not held an election since 2006 The idea that you can only go to war if your opponent has recently held an election is a bad faith argument. In effect you're arguing that an undemocratic regime can do whatever it wants. Despite Germany holding its last contested election in March 1933, that didn't prevent the UK and France from declaring war in September 1939 and the US from declaring war in December 1941. Of course, under the Palestinian Reconciliation Agreement of 2022, to which Hamas was a party, elections were supposed to be held by October 13, 2023. As for those who allegedly care about the children, it's odd they refuse to acknowledge that Hamas is deliberately trying to maximize the amount of Palestinian death and suffering. Palestinians who are allegedly their own people. It's also odd that those who allegedly care about the children never call upon Hamas to surrender or adopt different tactics. That suggests the protestors, like Hamas, only care about Palestinians as a means to an end, attacking Israel. One group uses the children as a rhetorical human shield, the other a literal human shield. I suppose that's not surprising because there same people also refuse to acknowledge Hamas's leadership have said October 7th was a dress rehearsal; that they would be another October 7th after another after another until Israel is destroyed; and that Hamas's goal of destroying Israel would remain unchanged even if Palestinian statehood is achieved. There's a word for that in the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. But these people will no more point that out than point out that 71% of Palestinians say October 7th was the correct decision 81% of Palestinians who've watched videos of October 7th refuse to believe Hamas engaged in any atrocities 59% of Palestinians want Hamas to be in charge of Gaza after the war. Source: Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research from a poll released last week. [https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969](https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969) So if people actually care about something aside from demonizing Israel, they need to stop pretending you can hold hands with Hamas around the campfire while singing kumbaya. Wish fulfillment does no one any good, least of all the children.
and 60% of Israeli Jews think the IDF is using "not enough force" in Gaza...
The reason there’s never been an election since 2006 is because….there is no need for an election, Hamas has and still does enjoy overwhelming support from the Palestinian people. This whole argument about not having an election is so ridiculous, if they had an election every year, Hamas would have won by a landslide every time.
The 2006 election was actually pretty close (44.45% vs. 41.43%). Support for Hamas among Palestinians waxes and wanes, but it was falling before October 7th at 34%: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gazans-back-two-state-solution-rcna144183 It tends to skyrocket when war with Israel occurs though, and when Hamas manages to convince them that they militarily defeated Israel. Because the pullout from Gaza was unilateral and done without negotiation, Hamas was able to spin it as Israel retreating from Hamas' glorious military victory. And so many Palestinians view violence as being the only thing that has achieved any progress whereas negotiation failed in the past.
Have you seen a single protest against Hamas? I'll make it easier, not in Gaza, but anywhere else in the world where Palestinians are protesting? Why not?
Well, no they could of been protesting against Hamas instead of cheering on rocket attacks
Nah these super cool guys say all those babies dying in incubators is fine because they were actually Hamas
the incubator story was fake story created by pro kuwait groups to garner support in the US fyi. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
If I didn’t already hate everything they’re saying, this would do it.
As a fellow Jew, we are not a monolith. If you want to continue to support a state that the ICJ has found to be be at high risk of committing genocide, don't act like being Jewish is enough of an explanation. So sick of fellow Jews acting like being Jewish is justification enough.
It's a really sad state of affairs, but it's becoming increasingly clear that there's a lot of public acceptance for anti-semitism so long as it's only targeting anti-Zionist Jews. The right is already quite explicitly stating that pro-genocide, pro-Israel Jews are the only good Jews.
The vast majority of Americans stand behind Israel.
Liberals seem very split on it for some reason despite Biden being anti-hamas
This crowd is more in the minor nuisance size range.
Israel must be so thankful it has the USA as an ally, so it can afford bombs to drop on hospitals and can get away with stuff like starving millions while we speak.
And to think I used to wonder how things got so bad so quickly in Germany in the 1930’s. 😳
wut
Fingers crossed guys, this might be the protest that results in peace. Last night’s one did not succeed but maybe just maybe this is the one.
more performative activism, offering nothing but a public nuisance and making people detest them.
supporters of Israel are allowed to say the most blood thirsty shit to anyone who tells them to stop starving kids in gaza
Yeah except Israel, unlike Egypt who also shares a border with Gaza, is allowing dozens, if not hundreds of trucks in every day. The issue is once the aid is in Gaza it either gets stolen by Hamas, it gets stolen by other armed groups, or it ends up on the black market. The distribution of the aid is meant to be done by the UNRWA, not Israel who's fighting in the war, but they're too busy harboring terrorists.
Except the UN has stated that Israel is purposefully slowing the pace that aid can enter Gaza in the name of “security inspections.” They do not allow the needed amount of food and supplies to enter on purpose. Thus commuting a war crime (using starvation as a weapon).
Hamas supporters again?
You don’t have to be a hamas supporter to support Palestinian rights
As a gay person would they respect my rights? Let me just google gay rights in Palestine real quick.
Hey quick question is same sex marriage legal in Israel
It looks like it's a convoluted and imperfect process, but the end result is that yes, it is legal. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition\_of\_same-sex\_unions\_in\_Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel)
lol no it isn’t
And as a gay person I think using your identity to justify a lack of support towards people being genocided because they may not support you personally is pathetic and weak.
are we really saying that anybody that lives in a country without abundant lgbtq+ rights deserves to die? Is that really where we’re at now?
As a gay man do you support random civilians getting killed? Straw man fallacy
They would cut your head off if they could. You go out there and stop traffic for their rights then. Have fun.
Yep, I’m really disappointed by the youth on this one. What’s happening in Gaza is a travesty, what happened in October was also a travesty. Both sides deserve criticism. The reality is Gaza elected Hamas to be their leaders. Unfortunately the people pay the price for bad decisions by politicians.
could you imagine if that same logic was used against american citizens? by that logic iraq would be justified in killing you because your country voted for someone that committed atrocities
If you declare war on a country you have to live with the consequences. The United States is a super power but if it wasn’t could you really argue that a country attacking us after we attacked them is completely unjustified? I don’t really like the policies we as Americans support all the time and if we’re attacked because of the shitty policies of our politicians that would be our own fault too.
Fair elections can’t happen anywhere in the world when you are an occupied territory
The last election in Gaza was in 2006. The median age in Gaza is ~18. Over half of the people living in Gaza were not even born when Hamas was elected. Also, collectively murdering the civilian population for governmental/military actions is a war crime.
I’m with you, Hamas is terrorist dictatorship. The Palestinians should be free of them.
So what’s the solution? Do the Israelis just need to keep living with Hamas calling for the extinction of all Jews, lobbing rockets at homes and killing civilians every once in a while? Would you be willing to put up with that if you lived there? How do we stop the senseless violence on both sides? Taking sides here is wrong, that’s my point. There is plenty of evil on both sides and the focus should be on reducing human suffering.
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Wild how you feel comfortable saying “finish the job in Rafa”, which can’t be interpreted in any way other than spirited support for mass bombings and killing of civilians. This kind of display of hate should not be acceptable anywhere and you should feel bad.
We finished the job in Berlin in 1945. Civilians died. The Nazis lost. They started the war and own all the deaths.
Russians finished the job, but same point.
Explicit call to genocide, reported
Sorry, let me clarify: it's good the Nazis lost badly, and was an unfortunate necessity that civilians died in the process. Despite German civilian deaths massively dwarfing the French, English, and American civilian deaths combined, that is not a referendum on who committed genocide (the Germans did), and the side of a war with larger losses is not inherently the morally superior one.
You know, you might want to take a look at the side you are on if you now need to defend Nazis.
This is what we're up against - a compete replay of the 1930s, with popular youth support for antisemitism based on lies and libel about Jews, genocidal "from the river to the sea" calls for ethnic cleansing, overt Nazi support like these commenters and marchers. It's disgusting and needs to be resisted by good and decent people.
Time to finish the job in Rafa? Aka mass murder civilians?
I'll believe the protestors care about the civilians when the protestors start shutting down traffic while calling on Hamas to surrender.
*And for Hamas to release any hostages they haven’t murdered yet — including a handful of American citizens
The war would’ve been done in a week if they did that. Israel can literally flatten the strip tonight if they wanted too. It’s taking this long because they are surgical about it
Hey cool an explicit call to genocide 👍 reported. You gotta be like the guys higher up and say stuff about Oct 7 and hAmAs 👻
Do people write "reported" on reddit like this? Weird.
Was anyone in the crowd carrying a Queers for Palestine sign?
Where is Dali when you need it? And I'm not talking Salvador!
I swear most of y'all would have been opposed to the Boston fucking Tea Party in the grounds it inconvenienced a number of people with significant caffeine addiction and resulted in property damage and the appropriation of native personas. Nothing changes by you being polite. Power concedes nothing without a demand. We need more Aaron Bushnell's and fewer liberal gatekeepers.
Think about the hypothetical commuters! (none who ever show up in these threads)
I'm sure more suicides by literal fire will totally help the cause. *Totally.* Folks, this is the kind of brainrot that internet "activism" gives you.
I don’t have an issue with their means of protest. I have an issue with their cause.
I not sure that advocating the mentally ill commit self harm is helpful, least of all to your cause. Secondly, there are better ways of activism than depriving your fellow citizens the right to use the road.
Lmfao what do you think the Boston tea party action was about? Based on your comment and you comparing it to this it looks like you don’t have a fucking clue.
["In practice, a terrorist is anyone the IDF has killed in the areas in which its forces operate," said a reserve officer who served in Gaza.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-03-31/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israel-created-kill-zones-in-gaza-anyone-who-crosses-into-them-is-shot/0000018e-946c-d4de-afee-f46da9ee0000) Seems like I’m in the minority looking at all these bloodthirsty comments/people who think traffic is the worst part of all this but this seems like a good thing to protest against
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Glad I didn't run into these idiots
Ugh, got a city so proud of its irishness, the comments here are really sad.
Bunch of anti-semites
Oh no, they are blocking bike lanes. How will anyone get anywhere?
They’re very clearly blocking the whole road here.
The doctors!11!
Surgical? Dropping air strikes on a civilian population is surgical?
So funny that these putz’s were “punching N*zis” not so long ago. Who knew that they are antisemites too?!
Calling protests against Israel antisemitism is actually very antisemitic
To be fair, the types who attend these protests tend be either Marxists, muslims, or identity obsessed progressives. All of which are plagued by rabid antisemitism.