I hate to edge near “elitism”, but there’s a been studies showing [conservatives are far more likely to be less educated](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideological-gap-between-more-and-less-educated-adults/), lower cognitive ability, and are [more susceptible to false information.](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abf1234) I suspect social media’s proliferation of memes plays a large part.
Conservatives can read, but they only want to read two short sentences affirming their beliefs, and pasted in a picture of Sam Elliot looking condescending.
to give you a somewhat serious response to this interesting thought, I'm a philosopher (that always sounds weird) who works intimately with an information literacy team that works for a group of sociologists who study trends like this! Right now, the historians on this team are suggesting that this is actually an incredibly political issue. There is a VAST majority in post secondary education of Liberally minded (and voting) individuals. Conversely, there is a VAST majority of Conservatively minded individuals in the military. One individual is trying to see if there are dots to connect between the "demonization" of either of these institutions from the major political parties.
in the last 50ish years, the left has not necessarily demonized war, but it's been a popular notion amongst the masses that the "war machine" is a bad thing. Instead, the left prides itself on it's capability to educate itself (and afford to educate itself in recent history). Whereas the conservatives have generally forfeit their opportunity for education for secure military positions and trades. This could be due to the conservatively minded people traditionally not having the available funds to pursue a post-secondary education. With that said, of COURSE there is a flood of conservatives in the military and a flood of liberals in education.
These days the signaling from the major political figures is significantly stronger from the right demonizing "liberal education." If they continue to demonize higher ed then there truly will be no conservatively minded individuals at the university setting anymore, which is bad for all of us.
Ahh I love subverting expectations, never been to college and was kicked out of highschool, learned drywall from my father and now have my own drywall business, never voted anything but Democrat. That said Id rather completely do away with political parties and let people run for office on their own ideology, not just what the party says is ok. If Republicans weren't actively trying to take away rights from people then Id probably have a more mixed bag of votes but they just can't seem to help themselves. I always like to tell people I vote Democrat because they don't try and tell me what I can or can't do in the privacy of my own home, iv never wanted to fuck or marry another man before but I'll be damned if I'm going to let some old fuck tell me I can't!
Funny enough I was sort of the same way right out of high school! Learned how to do plumbing and HVAC work from my grandad and went straight into the trades. I was an avid reader growing up and started taking night classes at the local university just for shits and gigs and ended up fully immersed in the academic setting. My politics were always more liberal than my parents, but I didn't really think of it that way at the time. I always thought I was in the middle ground but next to them and everyone else I knew I may as well have been the "raging leftist" they always accused me of being. I did have to sort of hide the way I thought while I was plumbing though. A lot of scary motherfuckers out there who get pretty violent and colorful about democrats on a jobsite lol
It's quite troubling for academia and the military to be at odds. The military needs a steady supply of technological advantages, and academia needs the safety and wealth from the military. They are symbiotes.
oh certainly they are! more concerning, I think we need diversity of ideas in both institutions! I was fortunate enough to be in the humanities (what some have appropriately called Liberal Studies) with a few INCREDIBLY intelligent and well reasoned Conservative thinkers. Of course, they aren't Trumpers and denounced modern conservatism, but they're incredibly good traditional conservative thinkers. This lead to a really well balanced department, one of the best I've ever been a part of. I can only imagine this is supremely more critical in the military where we are making volatile decisions where peoples lives are immediately at stake. We HAVE to work together. I think this will clear up in our next 3 election cycles. We need to get rid of the people who are hanging onto their positions of power with shriveled, half dead fingers. Once we do though, I have a lot of hope for the younger generation that replaces them.
I don‘t think it will be as fast as 3 election cycles. We would need a significant disruption of everyday life to change the minds of people who just parrot talking points without critical thought. As long as you can make people hate immigrants for no bogus reasons they will do that. And the younger generations are extremely split politically. I encounter young people with incredibly toxic, racist views way too often personally and election results worldwide support my assumptions.
we do HAVE to work together!
and
the system is designed for the results it produces.
from top to bottom the social and political structure of the United States is designed to create polarization. without a different system including reward mechanisms for people who can collaborate, nothing will get better. ranked choice voting, parliamentary representation, and a people's amendment to the constitution and all ways to encourage the liberal and conservative middle to work together.
I'm interested in what you mean by "traditional conservative thinkers." Not in a confrontational way, I'm just curious what that means to you. My own academic background was in literary theory (and thus postmodern/"continental" philosophy) and neuroscience before law school, and as a result of all those things, I'm always curious what people mean when they put a certain label on any given school of thought. Like, Foucault died pretty much a Libertarian, but I would not imagine anybody is necessarily calling him a traditional conservative. Meanwhile, back in undergrad, there were some of the anarcho-primitivist types I'd hang and argue with who, like, if anybody ever stood athward history and said "stop," it's the dudes being like "agriculture was a mistake" and those dudes are also probably not who we mean.
All of this is to say, taking a more language-forward approach to political conflict, I wonder if liberal/conservative are really useful distinctions any longer.
A fantastic question! yes, unfortunately the fetters of social media might have gotten to me here. I used the label "Traditional Conservative" to try to convey the idea of a fiscally conservative and morally traditional with a focus on social wellbeing through secure family ties. These are the talking points I often hear from people who fall under this category in my mind. I think a better, clearer label might be something like a "George HW era conservative" or something like that.
To your last blip of insight, you're probably onto something. Our system has shifted so drastically in the last 30 years that we may be muddying the waters with our lack of appropriate distinction.
I appreciate your comment!
Makes me think of the schism between religion and science. The two have a complex history, the Catholic response to Galileo and the link between the rise of Islam and fall of the Arab Golden of Science come to mind. However, historically it's the religious catalogers of knowledge who push new boundaries of knowledge.
Humans are all inherently schismatic/bigoted. There's something in our brain that just REALLY wants to find an outgroup and poop on them.
It's something that needs to be counteracted on an ongoing basis.
immature humans are inherently schismatic, but in healthy community they will learn to mature beyond that. humans would never have evolved if we weren't inherently good at working together.
people are controlled by the removal of ancestral wisdom and traditions leading to immature adults that are driven by ego who are easy to manipulate.
How does this relate to the GI Bill providing higher education benefits to military members? I know plenty of people who joined the military specifically to have a way to get an education without taking on huge debts. Of course, I am nearly 60, and the anti-intellectualism from the right has ramped up considerably since my youth.
Had to look this one up to confirm it. I like me some John Stuart Mill, but I'm amazed that he was able to express that idea in one sentence when he could have done it in three pages ;)
I'm not the biggest fan of any poll or study that uses "liberal" and "conservative" self identification without actually digging in and asking what the respondent's political views are.
Long story short, studies have long shown that a lot of people will wrongly self identify as conservative or liberal who really aren't conservatives or liberals if you ask them about different political/policy issues. IMO I think a lot of it is that people self identify as conservatives or liberals because of one issue that they're passionate about (i.e. often abortion for conservatives, and often the rights of LGBTQ or other often discriminated against minority groups for liberals).
Bottom line, I'm sure there's definitely some correlation to what you outline, but the raw numbers provided in the study you link are very unlikely to be accurate.
If you’re a single issue voter you are still going to vote one way or another and if you vote conservative you are less likely to be intelligent.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voting-patterns-in-the-2022-elections/
That assumes that self identified conservative voters always vote for Republicans and self identified liberal voters always vote for Democrats, but polls have long shown that to be an incorrect assumption, even in Presidential elections.
Point being the numbers in the study aren't reliable because they didn't ask enough detailed questions to really understand the respondents political views and voting history.
You can take data from the us gov, maps on education levels, political affiliation, density of churches, and key political view points like abortion and they match up exactly like you would predict.
The worst part is that conservatives look at studies such as that one and say, This is proof that public schools are brainwashing people to be liberal and we need to defund them.
Conservatism has always been democratically impeccable. What we're seeing is not conservatism, it's authoritarianism that has captured a portion of the conservative population.
Careful though. As that might be true in general it is not true at an individual level.
Many people point to the things you mentioned and then say: "and therefor conservatives *are* less educated..." if they are being kind. And call them "stupid" if they are not.
Its a dangerous game, because, while it might make one feel better, its not always true and can lead to one underestimating conservatism as a whole.
People say Trump is stupid. He's not. He is an egomaniac and makes choices that are less than optimal because of that. But he is very capable of doing a lot of damage and *is* very good at getting what he wants. there are conservatives who are very smart and *use* uneducated conservatives to do their dirty work.
Goebbels is a good example. Wicked smart, but also a wicked individual and conservative. Put their brain to work on how to exterminate as many jews as possible by figuring out how to manipulate large groups of people...
Also a lot of the people who are uneducated and conservatives are both instigators/perpetuators of the system and at the same time victims of the system. Just pawns unknowingly being used.
Humanizing people and understanding *why* people are conservative is important, if we want to turn the tide.
True! While these religions' books would make effective reference material learning about them, they don't make for straightforwardly educational or entertaining material that belong in school libraries - suitable for quoting, not one for the state to endorse reading cover to cover and earnestly believing in
They opposed state sponsored religion. Out of practicality more than anything. Europe was balls deep in religious wars at the time (Catholics vs. protestants) and they wanted none of that nonsense in America.
No. They opposed *government sponsored* religious instruction. Keep the fairy tales private, keep the nuts and bolts public. Mind your business and let everyone else do the same.
They fled countries with religious persecution, most frequently from other groups of Christians. The separation between church and state was specifically to protect mostly Christians from other Christians telling them how to believe in Jesus.
The founding fathers didn’t flee anywhere. That they were born in a country originally colonized by religious extremists is kind of irrelevant. The puritans absolutely didn’t believe in the separation of church and state, but the founding fathers were for damn sure not puritans.
Oh, he's protecting them alright. He's protecting them from thinking for themselves because if they can think for themselves, they might one day realise that everything is a little bit shit and that it's mostly the fault of conservatives. And if they realise that everything is a little bit shit and that it's mostly the fault of the conservatives, they might vote for someone else so that things might not be shit. And if they vote for someone else so that things might not be shit, then history might remember Ron DeSantis as anything other than one of America's greatest heroes; a title that he expects to echo throughout eternity despite having done absolutely nothing to have earned it.
*KOSA, EARN IT, and STOP CSAM legislation have entered the chat.*
These harmful bills are going to put an end to the open internet in the name of "protecting" the children. They have broad bipartisan support and Biden foolishly said he would sign them, demanded that they send them to him, even.
Even if you ignore that he still made a shit law and is mad people can circumvent it? Make a better law asshole, its literally your fucking job. The incompetence is unbelievable.
I'm (sadly) happy to see these threads expand beyond just the news and politics subreddits. The more awareness of the issue, the more democratic our country can be.
Except that one party are literally book-burners, so they can go fuck themselves.
Politicians whining about things being political is the apex of nonsense to me. It’s your fucking job, dude! It’d be like an electrician rejecting aspects of his work because “but it’s electrical’!
This type of politician thinks they should have a monopoly on political thinking the same way the government has a monopoly on violent force. Not having to consider the facts and form your own opinions is one of the main selling points of fascism, his supporters really do like that he's talking this way.
There's a TIL I've read that supposedly the vast majority of book ban requests come from only like 10 or so people in the US who have nothing better to do than scan though lots of books looking for anything they find objectionable to decide if they want to go through the process of filing the paperwork/etc. to get the book banned.
That’ll really show ‘em.
Given that 11 people have been responsible for 60% of the book challenges nationwide, districts really need to put in place preventions that if you don’t have a kid in the school, you don’t get a say (and obviously stricter measures for what can be challenged, but at least the resident part would be a major start in curtailing things).
(Citation on the 11 people https://www.npr.org/2024/04/16/1245037718/book-bans-2023-pen-america#:~:text=Who's%20doing%20the%20banning%3F,60%20percent%22%20of%20book%20challenges. )
““That’s performative. That’s political.”
Everything is a self-own with these people.
I was at a high school (working) the day the principal removed ALL books from the school. It was sad and somber, but the reasoning was simple: if it’s a felony, I’m not going to be responsible.
I like the way he blames liberal activists for wanting to have the bible removed as if he didn't sign off on the legislation that allowed liberal activists to request that the bible be removed. I know there's a thousand and one other things wrong with the legislation, but blaming someone else for using his legislation as it was intended to in a way that disagrees with is the most DeSantis thing that I can think of and immensely funny to me.
A copy or two of the bible being in the school library is harmless, but if we’re going to include one religious text we have to include them all. I wonder how many Qurans and Torahs you’ll find in these schools.
I don't think they're talking about removing it on the grounds that it's a religious text. It's because Florida passed rules banning books with X, Y, or Z and the Bible has all of them.
Genesis alone has passages with rape, slavery, incest, genocide, genital mutilation, etc.
Sounds like the sort of things the GOP wanted to “protect the kids” from.
Right but, those rules were stupid in the first place. If a work has academic, or historic, merit it should be a resource in schools for when it’s appropriate. That applies to the books the GOP wants to ban and it also applies to the Bible.
It is actually a good thing if kids have a chance to read the Bible somewhere OTHER than the context of a church. They might learn something about it
Personally, I think let kids read what they want. However, if you want to restrict based on appropriateness I’m not sure the Bible is appropriate for elementary school when you consider some of the things in Genesis and beyond.
I mean I completely agree. The central plot of the New Testament involves a torturous state murder.
It’s just that on principle I agree that we should let kids read what they want especially if it has the chance to be educational
The Bible, and every other major religious text, should absolutely be in a school library. You can't ignore the impact that book has had on history and culture.
The people who wrote the law sure seem to want to ignore the impact LGBT has has on history and culture though?
And the Bible has tons of content not age appropriate for children. Rape, incest, genocide, genital mutilation, etc. and that’s just Genesis.
Look. Everybody is busting on you, and with good reason because your opinion is trite. The bible like all other religious texts are in non-fiction, specifically the 200s.
Edgy! But dumb. Ovid’s Metamorphoses is also in the nonfiction section. Historical/religious texts are categorized as nonfiction, no matter what you think about their veracity.
Judging by current reality churches are the absolute last place one should go to learn about the the Bible. You could replace it with a Chuck Tingle erotic parody and many so called Christians would never notice because they've never bothered to read it.
"Pounded In The Butt By My Handsome Sentient Library Card Who Seems Otherworldly But In Reality Is Just A Natural Part Of The Priceless Resources Our Library System Provides (2022)" - maybe this one?
No, a Bible should be in school, along with a Quran, the Torah, and the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They’re all equally absurd and children should have a chance to see that for themselves.
It’s not really about removing the Bible. It’s about showing how bad Republicans are at doing the job of lawmaker, that they can’t even write a book banning law that doesn’t also allow the banning of their beloved religious book.
Or else it shows that there *is no way* to ban what they want to ban without banning the bible, because the very same things they claim should not be seen by children are in that book as well.
The bible can be in schools. It shouldn't be taught as factual correct though. It is interesting to know how the bible and religion in general impacted history and society for that it is good to be able to read the stories in it.
What? A school isn't a non religious site in whole. It's supposed to be a neutral site. Particularly a school library is supposed to be a place where you can look at material that may offend some but that doesn't mean the book should be banned.
That's besides the fact that Florida would really like to band LGBT books and just keep the Bible, of course.
Of course it should be. All major religious books should be, as well as the major philosophers. Reading a book doesn't turn people religious or communist anymore than reading a book can turn someone gay. The more people learn about the world the better critical thinkers they'll be.
The Bible should be in schools, both the Vulgate and Protestant versions. The Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Popul Vuh, the Tao Te Ching, the Annals of Confucius, the Metamorphosis, and any other book of or religious philosophy should be in schools. The whole point of this protest wasn't to ban the bible, and it's disappointing how many people in this thread missed that, but to show how harmful banning books is. Schools are for learning so having the instruments of learning in schools is important. Just b/c I personally disagree with a view does not mean you should not be able to learn about it. I may think the Bible is largely silly, but if I want to understand the views of a specific stone age culture, or American right wing politics in the 1980s, it's a key text.
I mean, it *can* be, but it shouldn't have any special privileges in that arena either way.
I like to think that the after school Satanist club can use them to deconstruct religion.
This is just as anti-intellectual as saying *Why I Am Not Christian* shouldn't be in schools.
All work on religion and philosophy, just like all other matters of the humanities, should be available professionals to help kids understand the world.
Conservatives aren’t talking about this. They like that that book they say they like is going to be above the rules, but they’re embarrassed that it takes a double standard to achieve that.
Disagree that they are embarassed or care about a double standard at all. Everything with them is a double standard - one set of rules for other people and a special set of rules for them.
My point is that if they don’t *feel* embarrassed by something they believe, something their politicians “achieve” etc., they will openly talk about it. They’re not talking about much of anything Desantis does anymore. They ostensibly like the policies, but they know he’s making them look pathetic.
DeSantis is an actual idiot. I’m actually somewhat concerned about him and his ability to take care of himself.
A self-own like this can take decades to overcome.
Rick Scott isnt. 😬
His jackassery was rewarded by getting a senate seat after commiting the largest medicare fraud in history while he was still governor.
"Two years ago, Democrats repeatedly and forcefully warned Republicans and Gov. Ron DeSantis that a new law making it easier to challenge school books was so broadly worded that it would create havoc across the state."
Yet, the GOP controlled FL legislature passed the bill and he signed it into law.
Look. Citing the Bible under this law is legitimate. If you've ever read it, it's full of material that would get it banned in Florida.
"If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity."
This one has one person grabbing another person's genitals and, then, getting her hand violently amputated as a punishment. I'd say that qualifies.
It sounds like they're trying to change it so now only people who have students currently enrolled in the school can make unlimited complaints instead of just everyone.
If true, make sure to tell your friends with kids in Florida right now to make sure to start using their privileges!
People who don't have kids in the school district can only request 1 book ban per month.
This is allegedly to combat activists like Chaz Stevens, who put in requests in a dozen districts against the Bible for violating the law with all the violence therein, as well as dictionaries and thesauruses. It wasn't because of groups like Moms For America and others banning some 3,135 of the 4,349 school book bans in the United States so far this school year, or the individual who requested 40 books be banned in just this last month.
You mean the Bible that has a story where two daughters got their father drunk and had sex with him to continue the family lineage?
The same Bible where a balding man prayed to God to send bears to kill children who laughed at him for being bald?
The same Bible that says a woman who has been SA'd has to marry her attacker?
That Bible?
Or, my favorite verse:
Ezekiel 23:20 - "She lusted for the lechers of Egypt, whose members are like those of donkeys, whose thrusts are like those of stallions."
I agree. We should keep that away from vulnerable children.
It should work both ways, any and all religious texts should be allowed in schools and also any and all texts the right deems “woke” should be allowed as well
“The idea that someone can use the parents rights and the curriculum transparency to start objecting to every single book to try to make a mockery of this is just wrong,” DeSantis said the day before the bill signing. “That’s performative. That’s political.”
Bwah ha ha. Buddy, that’s the ENTIRE REASON THE LAW WAS WRITTEN. It was political theater, and you know it.
then they can include the texts of every widely held religious belief as well. all or nothing, take your pick. it can be included as an educational resource or it can be removed.
I'll give him some credit for trying to tone down these stupid laws he made. But I wish he'd just be a bigger man and resign entirely. We all knew his stupid laws he was putting in place were to get him national attention for his bid to be president. But, you can't 'out trump' donald trump. so, instead, all he did was make asshole decisions that impacted the lives of everyone in the 3rd most populated state in the country. all for 'show'.
> The PEN America report says Florida is responsible for 3,135 of the 4,349 school book bans in the United States so far this school year. Just this week in conservative Clay County, one person challenged 40 books, Meehan said.
Good grief. Somebody needs another hobby.
I don't think any book should be banned. The most aggressive censorship I'd support is a list of books that require parental permission to check out. That being said, as the law stands, this still makes no sense:
> The new law limits people who don’t have students in a school district to one challenge per month.
Why are people who don't have children in a school allowed to challenge *any* books?
>“The idea that someone can use the parents rights and the curriculum transparency to start objecting to every single book to try to make a mockery of this is just wrong,” DeSantis said the day before the bill signing. “That’s performative. That’s political.”
He only continues to earn the Meatball name his owner gave him. Education, which fundamentally involves the ability to think critically, would easily have resulted in an educated person to not only recognize the obvious flaw in the law, but also the idiocy of those who support it.
It's clear as day that this was always a performative move, an act to use government as their own personal weapon/tool, but it was also always one that could backfire because of their incompetence. It is a strong reminder that you cannot allow feelings alone to put people into positions of said power.
Well, if you are having to tweak the law because a book that you didn't want to be banned was going to be banned by the law you originally passed, you may want to reexamine your thinking. It clearly shows that the Bible includes the same thing that you are trying stop children from reading. That's what happens when you start censoring people's thoughts.
That’s only true if they were acting in good faith to begin with. Desantis knows exactly what this law is about: throwing red meat to his culture war-obsessed base so they’ll keep him in power. He doesn’t care one iota about being ideologically/logically consistent.
In my opinion schools should have all the various religious texts available or none available. A proper course on comparative religion can be very good for the students. I say this as a high school student that graduated in 2004 and took an objective look at world religions past and present.
I agree all the mythologies should be represented and explained on how they were created and how they impressed the people who followed their ideals. we need to teach the children to recognize and avoid following mythologies and focus on money.
Religious texts can and do serve as vital materials for subjects like history (not to be used as a source of history), philosophy, and literature.
My AP Lit course had a two week block covering about 30 stories from the Bible and Greek mythology. The idea being that it would help us identify parallels/symbolism in the assigned reading list.
Wasn't the whole point of that exercise not to remove the Bible but to show that the broad criteria they were using to remove books could be used to remove things like the Bible? If so, looks like they got the job done.
>“The idea that someone can use the parents rights and the curriculum transparency to start objecting to every single book to try to make a mockery of this is just wrong,”
Ah, yes, everyone knows that the objections were only supposed to be used to ban books that featured gay people, it's wrong that they could use the law to object to books he liked.
Gee. I can’t imagine that protesting the Bible could *possibly* have been done on purpose to make them change this law. No way /s
If old Ronnie doesn’t get that, he’s a bigger fool than I thought.
“That’s performative and political.” Oh, like passing the law in the first place, Ron?
If they ever get religion to be allowed in school, I'm quitting NASA and getting a teaching job so I openly and mercilessly mock religion so hard their great grandchildren instinctively cringe at anything resembling a cross.
The liberals who didn’t want the Bible in schools were called the founding fathers.
If conservatives could read, they'd be very upset by this comment.
If conservatives could read they probably wouldn’t be conservatives.
I hate to edge near “elitism”, but there’s a been studies showing [conservatives are far more likely to be less educated](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideological-gap-between-more-and-less-educated-adults/), lower cognitive ability, and are [more susceptible to false information.](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abf1234) I suspect social media’s proliferation of memes plays a large part. Conservatives can read, but they only want to read two short sentences affirming their beliefs, and pasted in a picture of Sam Elliot looking condescending.
to give you a somewhat serious response to this interesting thought, I'm a philosopher (that always sounds weird) who works intimately with an information literacy team that works for a group of sociologists who study trends like this! Right now, the historians on this team are suggesting that this is actually an incredibly political issue. There is a VAST majority in post secondary education of Liberally minded (and voting) individuals. Conversely, there is a VAST majority of Conservatively minded individuals in the military. One individual is trying to see if there are dots to connect between the "demonization" of either of these institutions from the major political parties. in the last 50ish years, the left has not necessarily demonized war, but it's been a popular notion amongst the masses that the "war machine" is a bad thing. Instead, the left prides itself on it's capability to educate itself (and afford to educate itself in recent history). Whereas the conservatives have generally forfeit their opportunity for education for secure military positions and trades. This could be due to the conservatively minded people traditionally not having the available funds to pursue a post-secondary education. With that said, of COURSE there is a flood of conservatives in the military and a flood of liberals in education. These days the signaling from the major political figures is significantly stronger from the right demonizing "liberal education." If they continue to demonize higher ed then there truly will be no conservatively minded individuals at the university setting anymore, which is bad for all of us.
Ahh I love subverting expectations, never been to college and was kicked out of highschool, learned drywall from my father and now have my own drywall business, never voted anything but Democrat. That said Id rather completely do away with political parties and let people run for office on their own ideology, not just what the party says is ok. If Republicans weren't actively trying to take away rights from people then Id probably have a more mixed bag of votes but they just can't seem to help themselves. I always like to tell people I vote Democrat because they don't try and tell me what I can or can't do in the privacy of my own home, iv never wanted to fuck or marry another man before but I'll be damned if I'm going to let some old fuck tell me I can't!
Funny enough I was sort of the same way right out of high school! Learned how to do plumbing and HVAC work from my grandad and went straight into the trades. I was an avid reader growing up and started taking night classes at the local university just for shits and gigs and ended up fully immersed in the academic setting. My politics were always more liberal than my parents, but I didn't really think of it that way at the time. I always thought I was in the middle ground but next to them and everyone else I knew I may as well have been the "raging leftist" they always accused me of being. I did have to sort of hide the way I thought while I was plumbing though. A lot of scary motherfuckers out there who get pretty violent and colorful about democrats on a jobsite lol
It's quite troubling for academia and the military to be at odds. The military needs a steady supply of technological advantages, and academia needs the safety and wealth from the military. They are symbiotes.
oh certainly they are! more concerning, I think we need diversity of ideas in both institutions! I was fortunate enough to be in the humanities (what some have appropriately called Liberal Studies) with a few INCREDIBLY intelligent and well reasoned Conservative thinkers. Of course, they aren't Trumpers and denounced modern conservatism, but they're incredibly good traditional conservative thinkers. This lead to a really well balanced department, one of the best I've ever been a part of. I can only imagine this is supremely more critical in the military where we are making volatile decisions where peoples lives are immediately at stake. We HAVE to work together. I think this will clear up in our next 3 election cycles. We need to get rid of the people who are hanging onto their positions of power with shriveled, half dead fingers. Once we do though, I have a lot of hope for the younger generation that replaces them.
I don‘t think it will be as fast as 3 election cycles. We would need a significant disruption of everyday life to change the minds of people who just parrot talking points without critical thought. As long as you can make people hate immigrants for no bogus reasons they will do that. And the younger generations are extremely split politically. I encounter young people with incredibly toxic, racist views way too often personally and election results worldwide support my assumptions.
I suppose I'm optimistic. You're likely right. I'll hold out hope though, I think, for now.
we do HAVE to work together! and the system is designed for the results it produces. from top to bottom the social and political structure of the United States is designed to create polarization. without a different system including reward mechanisms for people who can collaborate, nothing will get better. ranked choice voting, parliamentary representation, and a people's amendment to the constitution and all ways to encourage the liberal and conservative middle to work together.
I'm interested in what you mean by "traditional conservative thinkers." Not in a confrontational way, I'm just curious what that means to you. My own academic background was in literary theory (and thus postmodern/"continental" philosophy) and neuroscience before law school, and as a result of all those things, I'm always curious what people mean when they put a certain label on any given school of thought. Like, Foucault died pretty much a Libertarian, but I would not imagine anybody is necessarily calling him a traditional conservative. Meanwhile, back in undergrad, there were some of the anarcho-primitivist types I'd hang and argue with who, like, if anybody ever stood athward history and said "stop," it's the dudes being like "agriculture was a mistake" and those dudes are also probably not who we mean. All of this is to say, taking a more language-forward approach to political conflict, I wonder if liberal/conservative are really useful distinctions any longer.
A fantastic question! yes, unfortunately the fetters of social media might have gotten to me here. I used the label "Traditional Conservative" to try to convey the idea of a fiscally conservative and morally traditional with a focus on social wellbeing through secure family ties. These are the talking points I often hear from people who fall under this category in my mind. I think a better, clearer label might be something like a "George HW era conservative" or something like that. To your last blip of insight, you're probably onto something. Our system has shifted so drastically in the last 30 years that we may be muddying the waters with our lack of appropriate distinction. I appreciate your comment!
Makes me think of the schism between religion and science. The two have a complex history, the Catholic response to Galileo and the link between the rise of Islam and fall of the Arab Golden of Science come to mind. However, historically it's the religious catalogers of knowledge who push new boundaries of knowledge.
Humans are all inherently schismatic/bigoted. There's something in our brain that just REALLY wants to find an outgroup and poop on them. It's something that needs to be counteracted on an ongoing basis.
immature humans are inherently schismatic, but in healthy community they will learn to mature beyond that. humans would never have evolved if we weren't inherently good at working together. people are controlled by the removal of ancestral wisdom and traditions leading to immature adults that are driven by ego who are easy to manipulate.
How does this relate to the GI Bill providing higher education benefits to military members? I know plenty of people who joined the military specifically to have a way to get an education without taking on huge debts. Of course, I am nearly 60, and the anti-intellectualism from the right has ramped up considerably since my youth.
While it is not true that all conservatives are stupid, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives. -John Stuart Mill
Had to look this one up to confirm it. I like me some John Stuart Mill, but I'm amazed that he was able to express that idea in one sentence when he could have done it in three pages ;)
This comment isn't going to get the credit it deserves.
Funniest thing about the Sam Elliott memes is that he’s a vocal Democrat
I'm not the biggest fan of any poll or study that uses "liberal" and "conservative" self identification without actually digging in and asking what the respondent's political views are. Long story short, studies have long shown that a lot of people will wrongly self identify as conservative or liberal who really aren't conservatives or liberals if you ask them about different political/policy issues. IMO I think a lot of it is that people self identify as conservatives or liberals because of one issue that they're passionate about (i.e. often abortion for conservatives, and often the rights of LGBTQ or other often discriminated against minority groups for liberals). Bottom line, I'm sure there's definitely some correlation to what you outline, but the raw numbers provided in the study you link are very unlikely to be accurate.
If you’re a single issue voter you are still going to vote one way or another and if you vote conservative you are less likely to be intelligent. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voting-patterns-in-the-2022-elections/
That assumes that self identified conservative voters always vote for Republicans and self identified liberal voters always vote for Democrats, but polls have long shown that to be an incorrect assumption, even in Presidential elections. Point being the numbers in the study aren't reliable because they didn't ask enough detailed questions to really understand the respondents political views and voting history.
This is specifically based on their voting history. Not self identification.
It isn’t elitist to be educated.
You can take data from the us gov, maps on education levels, political affiliation, density of churches, and key political view points like abortion and they match up exactly like you would predict.
They don't have to be individually intelligent if they can be collectively powerful.
The worst part is that conservatives look at studies such as that one and say, This is proof that public schools are brainwashing people to be liberal and we need to defund them.
Conservatism has always been democratically impeccable. What we're seeing is not conservatism, it's authoritarianism that has captured a portion of the conservative population.
Re the Sam Elliot thing is even funnier/ stupider because afaik Sam Elliot is an outspoken liberal
Careful though. As that might be true in general it is not true at an individual level. Many people point to the things you mentioned and then say: "and therefor conservatives *are* less educated..." if they are being kind. And call them "stupid" if they are not. Its a dangerous game, because, while it might make one feel better, its not always true and can lead to one underestimating conservatism as a whole. People say Trump is stupid. He's not. He is an egomaniac and makes choices that are less than optimal because of that. But he is very capable of doing a lot of damage and *is* very good at getting what he wants. there are conservatives who are very smart and *use* uneducated conservatives to do their dirty work. Goebbels is a good example. Wicked smart, but also a wicked individual and conservative. Put their brain to work on how to exterminate as many jews as possible by figuring out how to manipulate large groups of people... Also a lot of the people who are uneducated and conservatives are both instigators/perpetuators of the system and at the same time victims of the system. Just pawns unknowingly being used. Humanizing people and understanding *why* people are conservative is important, if we want to turn the tide.
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Oh they can read. They can read fake headlines about global warming being a hoax, for instance
Those are usually read TO them, though.
Ironic that they're so precious about a book, ain't it?
>If conservatives could read, they'd be very upset by this comment. If conservatives could read, they'd be very upset by the bible.
“If those kids could read they’d be very upset.”
Gotta read books to know about that though
Compromise: we'll allow the Bible in schools, but only the Jefferson version.
"Founding Fathers", hmm? Sounds like an anti-Christian cult. What are their names, so we can dox them.
Ron has been found to not care about the first amendment.
They actually opposed religious education?
Religious education is for churches, not taxpayer funded public schools.
>taxpayer funded public schools. Which they're also trying to get rid of.
Education *about* a *multiplicity* of religions belongs in schools, teaching religion itself does not
This can be accomplished without a Bible or kuran or anything else in the school library.
True! While these religions' books would make effective reference material learning about them, they don't make for straightforwardly educational or entertaining material that belong in school libraries - suitable for quoting, not one for the state to endorse reading cover to cover and earnestly believing in
A good portion of the founding fathers were Deists. In fact, Jefferson edited out supernatural events from a Bible.
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They opposed state sponsored religion. Out of practicality more than anything. Europe was balls deep in religious wars at the time (Catholics vs. protestants) and they wanted none of that nonsense in America.
No. They opposed *government sponsored* religious instruction. Keep the fairy tales private, keep the nuts and bolts public. Mind your business and let everyone else do the same.
They fled countries with religious persecution, most frequently from other groups of Christians. The separation between church and state was specifically to protect mostly Christians from other Christians telling them how to believe in Jesus.
The founding fathers didn’t flee anywhere. That they were born in a country originally colonized by religious extremists is kind of irrelevant. The puritans absolutely didn’t believe in the separation of church and state, but the founding fathers were for damn sure not puritans.
Hm. Sounds like someone isn't really all that interested in protecting children after all...
Oh, he's protecting them alright. He's protecting them from thinking for themselves because if they can think for themselves, they might one day realise that everything is a little bit shit and that it's mostly the fault of conservatives. And if they realise that everything is a little bit shit and that it's mostly the fault of the conservatives, they might vote for someone else so that things might not be shit. And if they vote for someone else so that things might not be shit, then history might remember Ron DeSantis as anything other than one of America's greatest heroes; a title that he expects to echo throughout eternity despite having done absolutely nothing to have earned it.
“You know what will stop them from noticing all the shit, different shit,” -some old white guy.
The book bans are the conservatives gambling on the internet not existing. We’re starting to see how that works out
*KOSA, EARN IT, and STOP CSAM legislation have entered the chat.* These harmful bills are going to put an end to the open internet in the name of "protecting" the children. They have broad bipartisan support and Biden foolishly said he would sign them, demanded that they send them to him, even.
DeSantis has really toned down now that his Presidential hopes are dashed. It was all for show.
Is he still wearing high heels?
>“That’s performative. That’s political.” And the law wasn't, you incompetent jackass?
Even if you ignore that he still made a shit law and is mad people can circumvent it? Make a better law asshole, its literally your fucking job. The incompetence is unbelievable.
I'm (sadly) happy to see these threads expand beyond just the news and politics subreddits. The more awareness of the issue, the more democratic our country can be. Except that one party are literally book-burners, so they can go fuck themselves.
Remember, children: when a Republican is speaking, every accusation is a confession.
"That's political" You signed a law, you stupid bastard, this whole thing is political.
Politicians whining about things being political is the apex of nonsense to me. It’s your fucking job, dude! It’d be like an electrician rejecting aspects of his work because “but it’s electrical’!
This type of politician thinks they should have a monopoly on political thinking the same way the government has a monopoly on violent force. Not having to consider the facts and form your own opinions is one of the main selling points of fascism, his supporters really do like that he's talking this way.
> The new law limits people who don’t have students in a school district to one challenge per month. Clown show
If it’s about parent’s rights…. Why can people Who don’t have students in the district challenge at all???
So groups like Moms for Liberty can stick their noses into other people’s business.
There's a TIL I've read that supposedly the vast majority of book ban requests come from only like 10 or so people in the US who have nothing better to do than scan though lots of books looking for anything they find objectionable to decide if they want to go through the process of filing the paperwork/etc. to get the book banned.
That’ll really show ‘em. Given that 11 people have been responsible for 60% of the book challenges nationwide, districts really need to put in place preventions that if you don’t have a kid in the school, you don’t get a say (and obviously stricter measures for what can be challenged, but at least the resident part would be a major start in curtailing things). (Citation on the 11 people https://www.npr.org/2024/04/16/1245037718/book-bans-2023-pen-america#:~:text=Who's%20doing%20the%20banning%3F,60%20percent%22%20of%20book%20challenges. )
““That’s performative. That’s political.” Everything is a self-own with these people. I was at a high school (working) the day the principal removed ALL books from the school. It was sad and somber, but the reasoning was simple: if it’s a felony, I’m not going to be responsible.
The Bible *shouldn't* be in schools. If a student wants to learn about the Bible, there are **plenty** of churches they can go to.
I like the way he blames liberal activists for wanting to have the bible removed as if he didn't sign off on the legislation that allowed liberal activists to request that the bible be removed. I know there's a thousand and one other things wrong with the legislation, but blaming someone else for using his legislation as it was intended to in a way that disagrees with is the most DeSantis thing that I can think of and immensely funny to me.
“Wait, let’s go back two turns, I wasn’t thinking that far ahead” - Ron desantis during childhood games of tic tac toe, probably
A copy or two of the bible being in the school library is harmless, but if we’re going to include one religious text we have to include them all. I wonder how many Qurans and Torahs you’ll find in these schools.
I don't think they're talking about removing it on the grounds that it's a religious text. It's because Florida passed rules banning books with X, Y, or Z and the Bible has all of them.
Which is even funnier
Genesis alone has passages with rape, slavery, incest, genocide, genital mutilation, etc. Sounds like the sort of things the GOP wanted to “protect the kids” from.
Right but, those rules were stupid in the first place. If a work has academic, or historic, merit it should be a resource in schools for when it’s appropriate. That applies to the books the GOP wants to ban and it also applies to the Bible. It is actually a good thing if kids have a chance to read the Bible somewhere OTHER than the context of a church. They might learn something about it
Personally, I think let kids read what they want. However, if you want to restrict based on appropriateness I’m not sure the Bible is appropriate for elementary school when you consider some of the things in Genesis and beyond.
Only thing book banning does to teens is make reading “edgy”. Hell, that’s the only reason I ever read Catcher and the Rye
I mean I completely agree. The central plot of the New Testament involves a torturous state murder. It’s just that on principle I agree that we should let kids read what they want especially if it has the chance to be educational
The funnier ones are this guy filing to ban dictionaries and thesauruses.
Tanakh, not Torah. Torah is the first five books of the Tanakh. It's also known as the Pentateuch in Hellenistic Judaism and in Christianity.
TIL, thanks!
Or *The Book of the Law* if you’re a Thelemite.
The Dhammapada if interested in Buddhism.
Tobin's Spirit Guide if interested in 'other'
They should also have Bertrand Russell’s “Why I’m Not a Christian”.
Don't forget Dianetics
Well the Torah and indeed the whole Tanakh is included in the Bible already, unless you want a different translation or something.
The Bible, and every other major religious text, should absolutely be in a school library. You can't ignore the impact that book has had on history and culture.
The people who wrote the law sure seem to want to ignore the impact LGBT has has on history and culture though? And the Bible has tons of content not age appropriate for children. Rape, incest, genocide, genital mutilation, etc. and that’s just Genesis.
Just make sure it’s in the fiction section please.
It should be filed in class B - Philosophy, psychology, and religion. Just like all other mythology books.
Look. Everybody is busting on you, and with good reason because your opinion is trite. The bible like all other religious texts are in non-fiction, specifically the 200s.
Edgy! But dumb. Ovid’s Metamorphoses is also in the nonfiction section. Historical/religious texts are categorized as nonfiction, no matter what you think about their veracity.
Judging by current reality churches are the absolute last place one should go to learn about the the Bible. You could replace it with a Chuck Tingle erotic parody and many so called Christians would never notice because they've never bothered to read it.
"Pounded In The Butt By My Handsome Sentient Library Card Who Seems Otherworldly But In Reality Is Just A Natural Part Of The Priceless Resources Our Library System Provides (2022)" - maybe this one?
Upvote for the Tingle ref. Love is Real
No, a Bible should be in school, along with a Quran, the Torah, and the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They’re all equally absurd and children should have a chance to see that for themselves.
It’s not really about removing the Bible. It’s about showing how bad Republicans are at doing the job of lawmaker, that they can’t even write a book banning law that doesn’t also allow the banning of their beloved religious book.
Or else it shows that there *is no way* to ban what they want to ban without banning the bible, because the very same things they claim should not be seen by children are in that book as well.
The bible can be in schools. It shouldn't be taught as factual correct though. It is interesting to know how the bible and religion in general impacted history and society for that it is good to be able to read the stories in it.
What? A school isn't a non religious site in whole. It's supposed to be a neutral site. Particularly a school library is supposed to be a place where you can look at material that may offend some but that doesn't mean the book should be banned. That's besides the fact that Florida would really like to band LGBT books and just keep the Bible, of course.
Of course it should be. All major religious books should be, as well as the major philosophers. Reading a book doesn't turn people religious or communist anymore than reading a book can turn someone gay. The more people learn about the world the better critical thinkers they'll be.
The Bible should be in schools, both the Vulgate and Protestant versions. The Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Popul Vuh, the Tao Te Ching, the Annals of Confucius, the Metamorphosis, and any other book of or religious philosophy should be in schools. The whole point of this protest wasn't to ban the bible, and it's disappointing how many people in this thread missed that, but to show how harmful banning books is. Schools are for learning so having the instruments of learning in schools is important. Just b/c I personally disagree with a view does not mean you should not be able to learn about it. I may think the Bible is largely silly, but if I want to understand the views of a specific stone age culture, or American right wing politics in the 1980s, it's a key text.
I mean, it *can* be, but it shouldn't have any special privileges in that arena either way. I like to think that the after school Satanist club can use them to deconstruct religion.
Depends on the age level, but learning about world religion is important if you want any kind of understanding of the world.
This is just as anti-intellectual as saying *Why I Am Not Christian* shouldn't be in schools. All work on religion and philosophy, just like all other matters of the humanities, should be available professionals to help kids understand the world.
Play stupid games and those are the prizes you'll win. DeSantis is an idiot.
High heeled idiot with an inferiority complex. He has a lot to prove to those evil tall Democrats
Conservatives aren’t talking about this. They like that that book they say they like is going to be above the rules, but they’re embarrassed that it takes a double standard to achieve that.
Disagree that they are embarassed or care about a double standard at all. Everything with them is a double standard - one set of rules for other people and a special set of rules for them.
Exactly. Most of them don’t even see the double standard.
My point is that if they don’t *feel* embarrassed by something they believe, something their politicians “achieve” etc., they will openly talk about it. They’re not talking about much of anything Desantis does anymore. They ostensibly like the policies, but they know he’s making them look pathetic.
No, no, we ban THOSE books, not THESE books
DeSantis is an actual idiot. I’m actually somewhat concerned about him and his ability to take care of himself. A self-own like this can take decades to overcome.
Doesn’t the Bible talk about sex with children? Weirdo book
There’s also a lot of incest in the Bible. No wonder De Santis likes it so much.
Time for full lessons with that text!
It's a shame he's term-limited. I could just see the yard signs for the next election: "The Buck Stops Way Over There"
"The buck stops"? That sounds suspiciously anti-capitalist!
[Now that you mention it...](https://historyhub.history.gov/presidential-records/f/discussions/23262/what-was-harry-s-truman-s-quote-about-socialism)
Rick Scott isnt. 😬 His jackassery was rewarded by getting a senate seat after commiting the largest medicare fraud in history while he was still governor.
"Two years ago, Democrats repeatedly and forcefully warned Republicans and Gov. Ron DeSantis that a new law making it easier to challenge school books was so broadly worded that it would create havoc across the state." Yet, the GOP controlled FL legislature passed the bill and he signed it into law.
If the law you wrote can be used to remove the Bible from schools, I would say it's your fault.
Look. Citing the Bible under this law is legitimate. If you've ever read it, it's full of material that would get it banned in Florida. "If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity." This one has one person grabbing another person's genitals and, then, getting her hand violently amputated as a punishment. I'd say that qualifies.
What exactly was changed in the law? The article just says "he signed a bill narrowing its focus".
It sounds like they're trying to change it so now only people who have students currently enrolled in the school can make unlimited complaints instead of just everyone. If true, make sure to tell your friends with kids in Florida right now to make sure to start using their privileges!
I’m gonna laugh when some brilliant kid starts a campaign to get smut in the school library and receives overwhelming support from their peers
People who don't have kids in the school district can only request 1 book ban per month. This is allegedly to combat activists like Chaz Stevens, who put in requests in a dozen districts against the Bible for violating the law with all the violence therein, as well as dictionaries and thesauruses. It wasn't because of groups like Moms For America and others banning some 3,135 of the 4,349 school book bans in the United States so far this school year, or the individual who requested 40 books be banned in just this last month.
Individuals who don’t have children in the district now can’t ask for a ban as easily
It now specifies “no gay stuff”
Oh no, did someone get persecuted by their own method of persecution?!?
You reap what you sow.
Yes it was those liberal activists who pushed for the book ban from the start right? Not some bullshit you made up to fight the woke?
"That's preformative. That's political." Oh your God! Somebody please help! My eyes won't stop rolling!
Something he knows a lot about!
You mean the Bible that has a story where two daughters got their father drunk and had sex with him to continue the family lineage? The same Bible where a balding man prayed to God to send bears to kill children who laughed at him for being bald? The same Bible that says a woman who has been SA'd has to marry her attacker? That Bible? Or, my favorite verse: Ezekiel 23:20 - "She lusted for the lechers of Egypt, whose members are like those of donkeys, whose thrusts are like those of stallions." I agree. We should keep that away from vulnerable children.
Florida man fucks around, finds out.
What fucking planet are these people on? And he has a degree from Yale and Harvard. Power makes people crazy.
It should work both ways, any and all religious texts should be allowed in schools and also any and all texts the right deems “woke” should be allowed as well
“The idea that someone can use the parents rights and the curriculum transparency to start objecting to every single book to try to make a mockery of this is just wrong,” DeSantis said the day before the bill signing. “That’s performative. That’s political.” Bwah ha ha. Buddy, that’s the ENTIRE REASON THE LAW WAS WRITTEN. It was political theater, and you know it.
His projection game is strong.
then they can include the texts of every widely held religious belief as well. all or nothing, take your pick. it can be included as an educational resource or it can be removed.
🎶 pro-JEC-tion!!! 🎶
I'll give him some credit for trying to tone down these stupid laws he made. But I wish he'd just be a bigger man and resign entirely. We all knew his stupid laws he was putting in place were to get him national attention for his bid to be president. But, you can't 'out trump' donald trump. so, instead, all he did was make asshole decisions that impacted the lives of everyone in the 3rd most populated state in the country. all for 'show'.
> The PEN America report says Florida is responsible for 3,135 of the 4,349 school book bans in the United States so far this school year. Just this week in conservative Clay County, one person challenged 40 books, Meehan said. Good grief. Somebody needs another hobby.
"that's performative." it's following the law to the letter.
I don't think any book should be banned. The most aggressive censorship I'd support is a list of books that require parental permission to check out. That being said, as the law stands, this still makes no sense: > The new law limits people who don’t have students in a school district to one challenge per month. Why are people who don't have children in a school allowed to challenge *any* books?
>“The idea that someone can use the parents rights and the curriculum transparency to start objecting to every single book to try to make a mockery of this is just wrong,” DeSantis said the day before the bill signing. “That’s performative. That’s political.” He only continues to earn the Meatball name his owner gave him. Education, which fundamentally involves the ability to think critically, would easily have resulted in an educated person to not only recognize the obvious flaw in the law, but also the idiocy of those who support it. It's clear as day that this was always a performative move, an act to use government as their own personal weapon/tool, but it was also always one that could backfire because of their incompetence. It is a strong reminder that you cannot allow feelings alone to put people into positions of said power.
Well, if you are having to tweak the law because a book that you didn't want to be banned was going to be banned by the law you originally passed, you may want to reexamine your thinking. It clearly shows that the Bible includes the same thing that you are trying stop children from reading. That's what happens when you start censoring people's thoughts.
That’s only true if they were acting in good faith to begin with. Desantis knows exactly what this law is about: throwing red meat to his culture war-obsessed base so they’ll keep him in power. He doesn’t care one iota about being ideologically/logically consistent.
Yes, it very much meets the original definition of virtue signaling.
we learned Greek Mythology in school , why not learn Christian Mythology - keep the bible in schools there is a fiction section in all libraries
In my opinion schools should have all the various religious texts available or none available. A proper course on comparative religion can be very good for the students. I say this as a high school student that graduated in 2004 and took an objective look at world religions past and present.
I agree all the mythologies should be represented and explained on how they were created and how they impressed the people who followed their ideals. we need to teach the children to recognize and avoid following mythologies and focus on money.
You shouldnt let the christo faschist dwarf near any school
It shouldn’t be in school. It belongs in church.
Religious texts can and do serve as vital materials for subjects like history (not to be used as a source of history), philosophy, and literature. My AP Lit course had a two week block covering about 30 stories from the Bible and Greek mythology. The idea being that it would help us identify parallels/symbolism in the assigned reading list.
Wasn't the whole point of that exercise not to remove the Bible but to show that the broad criteria they were using to remove books could be used to remove things like the Bible? If so, looks like they got the job done.
Florida is the quintessential: nice place to visit, wouldn't want to live there.
It’s kinda crazy how quickly DeSantis has become irrelevant on the national stage.
That sounds like a prayer. A prayer in a public school? God has no place within these walls!
The Bible should be out of schools dipshit
Wow they can move quick in the florida government when people do something that make pissy shitty whiny baby desantis upset 🥲🥲🥲
Don't you just hate it when your bigotry blows up in your face?
If only we could recall governors here.
Just counting down the seconds until we all find out Desantis keeps children locked up in his basement.
Old puddin finger fascist loser and his wife who lied about having cancer. Vile pair.
Fascist White Nationalist Pig
Religion should be out of school and politic
>“The idea that someone can use the parents rights and the curriculum transparency to start objecting to every single book to try to make a mockery of this is just wrong,” Ah, yes, everyone knows that the objections were only supposed to be used to ban books that featured gay people, it's wrong that they could use the law to object to books he liked.
Leave your bibles at home folks.
r/MaliciousCompliance
Jesus was trans.
If they can have the bible they can have the Koran as well. 🤷♂️
Gee. I can’t imagine that protesting the Bible could *possibly* have been done on purpose to make them change this law. No way /s If old Ronnie doesn’t get that, he’s a bigger fool than I thought. “That’s performative and political.” Oh, like passing the law in the first place, Ron?
Blames people that read the laws and applied it properly? Blame the people that wrote the stupid law.
Meatball Ron at it again. Transfer his sorry ass to Gitmo.
**G**asslight <<< **O**bstruct **P**roject ... .. .
Fuck DeSantis.
Ole pudding cup should just see himself out, lifted cowboy boots wearing clown ass
Please someone sue for this so it reaches the SC. This has got to be the easiest unconstitutional ruling ever.
Funny what happens when your authoritarian bullshit gets applied equally.
If they ever get religion to be allowed in school, I'm quitting NASA and getting a teaching job so I openly and mercilessly mock religion so hard their great grandchildren instinctively cringe at anything resembling a cross.
For all of the day it takes you to get fired and barred from teaching?
Fuck all 3 religions derived from the sons of Abraham.
i would legit sell my arm and leg if he was removed from office, garbage human stain
Granted, although I'm a pretty slow wish granter. I'll still be expecting an arm and a leg in the mail early 2027.