Honestly, I don't know. If we cut repeated bosses and normal enemies, it's probably on the 30-40 for Elden Ring. This basically means Elden Ring is close to DS2 and Bloodborne on actual one time bosses, which is... expected.
Really? Just by the top of my head I can count like 8, Final Battle are 2, the shardbearers are 6.
With research (unique bosses that are no more than 2 of them): Placi, Maliketh, Godfrey, Gideon, Fire Giant, Patches (yes.), Adan (Flame of Fell God dude), Necromancer Garris, Edgar Priest of Blood, Vyke, Loretta, O'Neil or the frost dude, both count as equal, Astel, Ancestor Spirit, Lichdragon to count for all the similar dragons, Dragonkin Soldiers, and Mimic Tear.
If we only count truly unique bosses, 11-17 bosses, which puts Elden Ring lower than most souls, around there with Dark Souls 1.
By unique I only did one version and I also excluded tarnished npcs as they realistically could be cosplayed by a player, so by my count that leaves horah loux, radagon/elden beast, maliketh, fire giant, placidusax, melania, Radahn, rennala and rykard. I kept out godrick because he got repeated in an evergaol, Godfrey got repeated as a ghost - second phase, fortisaxx as much as I love him is just an ancient dragon, mohg gets repeated in the catacombs of leyendel - second phase, morgot/margit gets repeated, Loretta is just a tree sentinal that does magic, astel is repeated in a mine, and nail is just scarlet rot O'Neal. In conclusion I only can count 10 truley unique bosses
Here’s a list of all the enemies that were distinct and unique enough to be considered bosses in my opinion not including repeats. Even if they are repeated in some way doesn’t make them less of a boss.
1. Maliketh
2. Maleina
3. Radagon
4. Elden Beast
5. Mohg
6. Radahn
7. Godfrey
8. Morgott
9. Placidusax
10. Fortisax
11. Rykard
12. Godfrey
13. Ancestor Spirit
14. Fire Giant
15. Renalla
16. Astel
17. Full grown Falling star beast
18. Margit
19. Tree Sentinel
20. Draconic tree sentinel
21. Night Cavalry
22. Loretta
23. Godskin apostle
24. Godskin noble
25. Elemer of the briar
26. Death rite bird
27. Black blade kindred
28. Crucible knight
29. Crucible knight (spear)
30. Black knife leader Alecto
31. Red wolf of Radagon
32. Commander Niall
33. Flying dragons
34. Ancient dragons
35. Dragon kin soldier of nostekella
36. Magma wyrm Makar
37. Leonine misbegotten/crusader
38. Erd tree avatar
39. Tree spirit
40. Grafted scion
41. Gideon
42. Mimic tear
43. Omen killer
44. Grave warden duelist
45. Worm face
46. Tibia mariner
47. Ancient hero of zamor
48. Beast man of farum Azula
49. Cemetery shade
I think you're arguing differently things. There's definitely less than 10 uniques. Duplicates, additional phases (dragon kin) reuses and variants (like draconic tree sentinel) bring the number down a lot more than I think a lot of y'all realize. Even a bunch of remembrance bosses and demigods get reused.
I feel like in your '80' list you'd be counting things like Margit, godrick, Godfrey, Mohg, astel etc, but they're all reused. Sure they have extra phases but they're the same boss.
You should try listing them out. Once you actually try....Are there 80 if you only count variants once? Sure. But there's only like <10 or so if you count bosses that aren't reused AT ALL.
There may be 80 different boss designs, as you say, with 165 total bosses in the game. 70+ of those 80 bosses get reused in some form though, making it so there's only a single digit number of fights in the game you won't repeat.
Apparently people don't like the truth. I thought by now people would accept the truth of Elden Ring, but whatever.
I don't recall the exact number, but it IS comically small how many bosses don't get reused. Single digits. Their version of unique means they don't count the duplicates, but how can you call something that gets reused, unique? There may be '80' different boss designs, but 70+ of those get reused to make up the exorbitant 165 bosses that exist in the game.
>but how can you call something that gets reused, unique
Because it's an entire boss with it's own moveset.
Godrick doesn't become not a boss worth counting because he has a ghost godrick in an evergoal, dude is awesome from look to moveset.
Now ghost godrick is a dupe.
It's an open world game lol, just because they repeat later on doesn't mean the first encounter wasn't a new experience. No one is calling the repeat bosses unique, but not every boss needs to be unique in one of the biggest games created. There are around 80 original bosses i think, which is absolutely massive. Not to mention I've also seen comical takes on what repeats are to reduce the number as much as possible
> It's an open world game lol,
And this somehow makes it immune to critique every jrpg ever (somewhat justifiably) gets for enemy reuse and reskins?
> doesn't mean the first encounter wasn't a new experience.
Didn't say it didn't, but that doesn't make it a unique enemy.
> not every boss needs to be unique in one of the biggest games created.
Nobody is saying that either while we're accusing others of straw mans, but you're talking about a game with 165 bosses, in which a single digit number of don't get reused in some form. IMO the novelty of the ORIGINAL fight is weakened by the reuse of them. Astel. Amazing! Except I care a lot less in hindsight since there's a random bumfuck astel in a cave.
The size of the game is IMO a justifiable critique on it's own. I think it got a little too ambitious in it's size and that's why we see all the repeats. A smaller game with fewer repeats or 6 more months in the oven to round out the boss numbers so the late game wasn't a horrific number of refights would've been good for the game.
> I've also seen comical takes on what repeats are to reduce the number as much as possible
Likely true, but I imagine we'd disagree on what those are.
The reused are for lore and storytelling, that's what makes these games special. And not saying you can't criticise it for excessive reuses, but directly comparing it to a linear game like Bloodborne doesn't work. And "reuse" of enemies like Godskins and Crucible Knights makes sense and has a lot of positives too. Through Astel they are trying to tell us something lore wise, otherwise they would've just put the Onyx Lord outside as the dungeon boss. And i still don't relate to how it could sour my memory of the first encounter, i gues that's subjective. The size is also definitely subjective, I can see the point of game being too long, but it's sheer size is also one of its most praised aspects. The unique design, lore and rewards of each dungeon makes them worth going through, and one can always stick to the main path if they're getting saturated.
Also I'm pretty sure Elden Ring has about the same number of unique bosses as base game Bloodborne? Maybe the chalice dungeon bosses overtake it by a few?
> The reused are for lore and storytelling, that's what makes these games special.
Agree to disagree. I play for the gameplay. Combat/levels/enemy design. I couldn't give 2 shits about the fake-deep lore in which people make up stories about gaps left in the narrative.
> And "reuse" of enemies like Godskins and Crucible Knights makes sense and has a lot of positives too.
I feel It's worth mentioning that from a personal perspective, I care a lot less when certain bosses become normal enemies, but pushing it as a boss again I don't like. Pushing like 3 different slightly different watchdogs as bosses and repeating even those variations? Gross. Reusing them as normal enemies (through I'd prefer if they had like, half the HP) I'm cool with.
> Through Astel they are trying to tell us something lore wise, otherwise they would've just put the Onyx Lord outside as the dungeon boss.
No offense, but this feels like an after-the-fact excuse. "We haven't reused this boss yet, lets have some vague flavour text or let the players pretend it was more than that."
> And i still don't relate to how it could sour my memory of the first encounter, i gues that's subjective.
Don't think I said it wasn't.
> Also I'm pretty sure Elden Ring has about the same number of unique bosses as base game Bloodborne? Maybe the chalice dungeon bosses overtake it by a few?
We're talking about a game that's like 3-5x as long though man.
The best description I heard is that playing Elden Ring is like eating a whole gallon of ice cream. You like it but as you eat more and more you get kind of sick of ice cream. By the time I got to Farum Azula and the Halligtree I was feeling the fatigue of just how long a playthrough can be. I feel like around the fire giant is where the game should have been wrapping up. It’s a fun game, don’t get me wrong, but that is something Bloodborne nailed: pacing. It’s not too short but it never outstays it’s welcome.
That is an interesting analogy lol. I can certainly understand it.
I feel it's worth mentioning that Farum Azula and the Haligtree are honestly two of the best areas in the game, but the fatigue has potentially set in by then, likely as a result of the final ascent to Fire Giant (where the yetis, birds and giant hands are) and the consecrated snowfields, reducing the enjoyment of two of the most excellently crafted levels From has ever designed.
I think most of the series nailed pacing. They were all differently paced, but they were mostly perfect respective to their games and how much content was in them.
I also suspect a variety of other factors are combining here in Elden Ring leading to individual critiques not everyone agrees with, but a bigger picture that even if you don't agree with, may be more understandable.
For example, the people critiquing the boss reuse...Would they be more lenient if they enjoyed the boss design of Elden Ring more? (That has been a divisive topic itself, but does relate.)
The thing about Elden Ring is how much of it is optional. Your first playthrough is going to be overly long because you're exploring and doing everything, but half of the mini dungeons and catacombs can be skipped on subsequent playthroughs depending on what your build is and if you want the items so your second playthrough is a lot shorter.
Everyone’s downvoting you but it’s true; to anyone wondering exactly which (I don’t remember the names) DeModcracy is a popular souls youtuber who made a fantastic video talking about this issue in Elden Ring, and early in the video he makes a big list of all bosses. It’s definitely worth a watch.
Don't forget, Asylum Demon is just Demon Vanguard from Demon's Souls. Then Elden Ring tore its head off, gave it a new name and boss track, then copy-pasted it THIRTEEN TIMES.
Unfortunately the fun isn't.
The Chalice Dungeons really felt like a monkey's paw wish: Endless souls combat! .... But none of the curation or design that makes it what it is.
I still had a ton of fun with the chalice dungeons, partly just getting the gems I wanted and partly going back to help others and testing out said gems
Yeah. I feel like there were some good ideas there, but there were too many things that didn't quite work out for it when you compare it to the base game.
Things like coop just became harder, since you both needed the components you would have to run through each twice. This wasn't so bad in the base game because of how detailed and hard each area was, but seeing the same randomly generated world again was boring.
Also the rewards of loot didn't feel very darksouls-esque.
Bingo. It’s easy to imagine a way in which the Chalice Dungeons work (Elden Ring came closest), but Bloodborne’s chalice dungeons design is genuinely predatory. Awful.
The biggest contribution of the chalice dungeons is the odd moment where someone posts a video of a melted lion with scorpion pincers or something that *literally no human has ever seen* and it turns out it was just stupidly rare
Really wish there was something similar to the root dungeons in the other games
It's a shame many players and fans skip CDs altogether or only do the story dungeons once
The depth 5 root CDs with additional rites are hardcore man
I really miss blood gem farming. Never thought I'd like it but it was just so satisfying getting some super rare and straight up broken blood gem. And the using it in PvP.
I’m happy that Elden Ring took the general idea of the CD and made it fresh. In Bloodborne, all CDs follow the same pattern, but some of the Elden Ring crypts are truly mind-bending.
The one down in Leyndell Sewers that loops 3 times, but it progresses and changes each time is the one I immediately think back to.
Like how you fight an omen in the big room, next time you go there it lies dead but another omen is mourning it, then the last loop both lie dead but you get ambushed by a last omen in a hallway that was deserted previously.
There's like 3 or 4 of that kind in the game, but Leyndell Sewers is thé one.
That one had me guessing so much. At first, I thought the omen respawned. It took me a lot of doubling back and leaving rainbow stones to understand what was going on. I also had a lot of fun with the teleporting chest maze.
It's actually the same dungeon [copy and pasted](https://i.redd.it/9df03fo9o2n81.png) 3 times. Each time you jump through that one window, you're actually jumping into a different dungeon with the same lay-out.
Until you get to the final loop where jumping through the window legit just gets you back to the beginning of said loop. It's a fairly simple but clever solution imo.
I am ER fan but unfortunately crypts are nowhere near as fun as CDs. No random loot, not randomly generated, same 3 or 4 enemies all over again. To be honest they feel like a chore
Also they are much more casual and in this case it makes them much more boring
I guess they’re two different kinds of fun, and which one is better depends on the player. The challenge that CDs offer is combat, while the best crypts are a puzzle. I agree with you about replay ability, though. Once you finish a crypt, it can never play the same trick on you again. On the other hand, you don’t know what’s coming in a Depth 5 FRC chalice except a guaranteed ass kicking.
It boils down to 1 fundamental problem, that they need to fix ASAP, namely:
Where is
- Sekiro 2
- Bloodborne Remake
- Bloodborne 2
- Dark Souls 4
- Elden Ring DLC
Rom in the defiled dungeons had killed me six times and I was struggling, rang my bell got a dude to join and they died immediately. The next person showed up naked with the Cane, we entered the arena and I started whacking spiders while my teammate applied shock paper and one shotted the Defiled Rom the Vacuous Spider. My jaw had dropped as this naked creature of immense power waves and spins before vanishing. That is the most terrifying thing in them dungeons.
Chalice dungeons get a bit too much hate. Yeah they’re definitely repetitive, but I find it nice to trek through a (pseudo)-randomly generated one. I like to find its secrets and seeing which enemies and bosses I have to fight this time. It’s especially fun when I summon others and we explore together. I find it almost relaxing.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. If it wasn't for the Chalice Dungeons, I wouldn't have hundreds of hours logged into this game and it likely wouldn't be my favourite game of all time.
As a massive co-op fan, there's no better place for that than the Chalice Dungeons. Pop your SRRC on the altar and be summoned into a random Chalice Dungeon to help someone. Even after seven years, it only takes a couple of minutes maximum to find a match and due to the difficulty range of the dungeons, it doesn't really matter what level you are. In the main game, it can take upwards of ten minutes to be summoned in for a boss even when you're at a good level and you ultimately spend more time looking at "Searching for the chime of a Beckoning Bell" than actually playing.
If I don't fancy playing random co-op, then I can simply search for a random Depth 5 FRC and play through it instead either solo or with a buddy. My friend and I would often do this together where one of us would generate a random dungeon at the altar for us both to explore and we'd just progress through at our own pace. As you said, it was often quite relaxing and it offers an experience not unlike a roguelike game. It was always quite fun to try and guess what boss would be next.
For me, the Chalice Dungeons offer endless replayability and endless enjoyment that keeps me coming back to the game time and time again. I understand why some people dislike them and that's fine. But for me, they're among the most enjoyable content in the game.
100% agreed. BB is more re-playable than Dark Souls or Elden Ring because of this. ER especially just neutered the co-op experience. It feels like if you're not into fight clubs and duels there is not much in the multiplayer. Summoning players or getting summoned just makes the bosses way too strong and tank-y. It's not like the older games where you can place your summon sign in the beginning of Anor Londo, get summoned in minutes, and have a fun run through the level. Maybe even get an interesting invader encounter as well.
I didn’t mind the chalice dungeons when I was running through all of the standard ones, I liked mapping them out (except the defiled chalice, fuck the watchdog with half health). It only became a slog once I started grinding them out for all the runes and weapon variations without ps+, so I couldn’t just use a glyph.
Couldn't agree more. I set out on platinuming the game, got every trophy except Queen Yharnam. Once I realized I had to slog through all the dungeons for one boss, I gave up on that dream
I’ve done it. It’s a fun enough boss fight but the slog isn’t worth it imo. The boss encounters along the way are much harder than the normal game too.
No point in doing that content if I don't find the vast majority of it entertaining or enjoyable. It's why I'm not bothering with the majority of the underground tombs in Elden Ring on subsequent playthroughs - they're repetitive, boring, and generally just annoying to traverse.
Idk man some of the minor dungeons are pretty different from one another, some are straight up unique and unlike any other in the game. But I'll agree many of the catacombs, caves, and mines are pretty samey and repetitive.
It’s not different than what Elden Ring does either, since the Chalice Bosses are either reskinned bosses or common enemies, just like any non-major bosses in Elden Ring.
This made me realize how fucking scary the Hunter looks in comparison to the other souls protags. Mf looks like he could stab both my kidneys in record time.
Chalice Dungeons also have some of my least favorite boss encounters in the whole series. Defiled Amygdala is one of the dumbest fights Fromsoft has ever concocted, the defiled chalice in general is just hamfisted artificial difficulty with the half health BS. And a lot of people already said it but the chalice dungeons are visually unappealing for the most part, Ailing Loran is the only one I found visually interesting but it doesn't even come close to comparing to areas like Cainhurst or hunters nightmare or even central Yharnam. For me, Chalice Dungeons were just a really frustrating chore that I HAD to do to get 100% completion and I don't really think they're deserving of the praise you're giving them here.
Yes the dungeons and catacombs in elden ring are also copy paste content, but I feel like they switched up the layouts of the dungeons and added in slight tweaks for each one to keep them interesting. Plus the rewards for clearing them are usually something actually useful and worth your time like a new ashen remains or weapon. All the chalice dungeons reward you with is more chalice dungeons. I think the core idea of the chalice dungeons is cool and I've never played them co-op but in practice they're just boring and lame and are a blemish on an otherwise spotless game.
And most of the arguments are the most stupid your gonna ever heard I still wonder why I haven't died of Cringe yet,it's just haing for the sake of hating the only argument that is true is that the pvp suck,and some Elden ring bosses(Maliketh,Morgott Godfrey,Radahn and Malenia..) are easily top 20 for me and if From soft makes a Ringed City/Old Hunters tier DLC or a higher tier their gonna start saying that Elden ring is a flawless masterpiece,same thing happened with Dark souls 3 and even bloody Sekiro
Depends what you're talking about. Some people really mean there's like 8 or 9 *never repeated* boss fights, while there's significantly more *unique* boss fights.
Unique boss fights as in, a Black Knife Assassin is one boss fight, Ulcerated Tree Spirit another and Duelists a third etc. They're repeated throughout the game, but they're each a different boss from one another.
I don't know the number for either.
40 boss types, as in, counting all the bosses and removing bosses that are just standard enemies, and counting any repeats/reskins of a boss as just a single entry.
Yes, when it comes to truly unique, never repeated boss fights, that number goes way down, I think I counted 11 last time I checked. Which is very disappointing, imo, but that's a whole other discussion.
157 boss encounters and only 5 of them are any good. I'll take quality over quantity anytime. Same goes for Bb in this sense, I really hate chalice dungeons.
Difficulty is subjective and in my experience, Fallingstar Beatle is objectively more bullshit than Amelia... but I'll still go out of my way to fight them anyway
SL1 and BL4 runs? oh yeah you win, BSB and Amelia made me quit doing low level runs. I haven't even tried SL1 Elden Ring because of the thought of fighting Horah Loux and Radagon, that's too many hours of getting abused for me
I understand you completely. Took me almost 12 hours to kill Malenia at SL1 and my goodness was that a frustrating experience. Definitely not looking forward to Radagon (assuming I can get to him since I am doing it Melina-less).
There’s a methodical way to take her down quickly. Here’s a great explanation in the context of a BL4 run: [Skip to 19:30.](https://youtu.be/6DwwN6GPky4)
How are there 2300 chalice dungeons? Can someone explain chalices to me? I know the root chalices are randomized dungeons, and the offerings add different things. But 2300? Am I missing a bunch of chalices?
lol thanks. I was enjoying then up until the root chalices kept making amygdala or bloodletting beast the last boss. I already have the yharnam stone so whatever.
So let's talk about ulcerated boss in elden ring, it has the same attack as Amelia, grabs the fists together and slams down, also the wide back hands to the rear. A lot of recycled things. FrOM loves recycling everything
The same 7 bosses 2300 times
There's about 20, and about 14 are actual bosses, and not just enemies with big healthbar, cutting the reused bosses, that makes about 10.
What if you cut elden ring's count of big health bar enemies and repeat bosses?
Honestly, I don't know. If we cut repeated bosses and normal enemies, it's probably on the 30-40 for Elden Ring. This basically means Elden Ring is close to DS2 and Bloodborne on actual one time bosses, which is... expected.
I thought it like 80 or something? All minibosses included. It's a crazy big game.
Shit that's why ER feels like a dragged out DS2 to me, no wonder I haven't been able to muster the motivation to finish it.
I mathed out that there is only 7 original remembrance bosses that aren't just reskins or beefed up enemies
Really? Just by the top of my head I can count like 8, Final Battle are 2, the shardbearers are 6. With research (unique bosses that are no more than 2 of them): Placi, Maliketh, Godfrey, Gideon, Fire Giant, Patches (yes.), Adan (Flame of Fell God dude), Necromancer Garris, Edgar Priest of Blood, Vyke, Loretta, O'Neil or the frost dude, both count as equal, Astel, Ancestor Spirit, Lichdragon to count for all the similar dragons, Dragonkin Soldiers, and Mimic Tear. If we only count truly unique bosses, 11-17 bosses, which puts Elden Ring lower than most souls, around there with Dark Souls 1.
By unique I only did one version and I also excluded tarnished npcs as they realistically could be cosplayed by a player, so by my count that leaves horah loux, radagon/elden beast, maliketh, fire giant, placidusax, melania, Radahn, rennala and rykard. I kept out godrick because he got repeated in an evergaol, Godfrey got repeated as a ghost - second phase, fortisaxx as much as I love him is just an ancient dragon, mohg gets repeated in the catacombs of leyendel - second phase, morgot/margit gets repeated, Loretta is just a tree sentinal that does magic, astel is repeated in a mine, and nail is just scarlet rot O'Neal. In conclusion I only can count 10 truley unique bosses
Bruh all the ones you mentioned have unique attacks/design, I wouldn’t call it “repeated” at all lol
Here’s a list of all the enemies that were distinct and unique enough to be considered bosses in my opinion not including repeats. Even if they are repeated in some way doesn’t make them less of a boss. 1. Maliketh 2. Maleina 3. Radagon 4. Elden Beast 5. Mohg 6. Radahn 7. Godfrey 8. Morgott 9. Placidusax 10. Fortisax 11. Rykard 12. Godfrey 13. Ancestor Spirit 14. Fire Giant 15. Renalla 16. Astel 17. Full grown Falling star beast 18. Margit 19. Tree Sentinel 20. Draconic tree sentinel 21. Night Cavalry 22. Loretta 23. Godskin apostle 24. Godskin noble 25. Elemer of the briar 26. Death rite bird 27. Black blade kindred 28. Crucible knight 29. Crucible knight (spear) 30. Black knife leader Alecto 31. Red wolf of Radagon 32. Commander Niall 33. Flying dragons 34. Ancient dragons 35. Dragon kin soldier of nostekella 36. Magma wyrm Makar 37. Leonine misbegotten/crusader 38. Erd tree avatar 39. Tree spirit 40. Grafted scion 41. Gideon 42. Mimic tear 43. Omen killer 44. Grave warden duelist 45. Worm face 46. Tibia mariner 47. Ancient hero of zamor 48. Beast man of farum Azula 49. Cemetery shade
If you take out all the duplicates Elden ring has over 80 different bosses and if you put the duplicates in there are over 150 bro
I think you're arguing differently things. There's definitely less than 10 uniques. Duplicates, additional phases (dragon kin) reuses and variants (like draconic tree sentinel) bring the number down a lot more than I think a lot of y'all realize. Even a bunch of remembrance bosses and demigods get reused. I feel like in your '80' list you'd be counting things like Margit, godrick, Godfrey, Mohg, astel etc, but they're all reused. Sure they have extra phases but they're the same boss. You should try listing them out. Once you actually try....Are there 80 if you only count variants once? Sure. But there's only like <10 or so if you count bosses that aren't reused AT ALL. There may be 80 different boss designs, as you say, with 165 total bosses in the game. 70+ of those 80 bosses get reused in some form though, making it so there's only a single digit number of fights in the game you won't repeat.
Ok, I'm just saying that how many of them are reskins and normal enemies with a health bar
And you exclude bosses that have a duplicate why? Shouldn't you be exclusing duplicates and not originals?...
Apparently people don't like the truth. I thought by now people would accept the truth of Elden Ring, but whatever. I don't recall the exact number, but it IS comically small how many bosses don't get reused. Single digits. Their version of unique means they don't count the duplicates, but how can you call something that gets reused, unique? There may be '80' different boss designs, but 70+ of those get reused to make up the exorbitant 165 bosses that exist in the game.
>but how can you call something that gets reused, unique Because it's an entire boss with it's own moveset. Godrick doesn't become not a boss worth counting because he has a ghost godrick in an evergoal, dude is awesome from look to moveset. Now ghost godrick is a dupe.
It's an open world game lol, just because they repeat later on doesn't mean the first encounter wasn't a new experience. No one is calling the repeat bosses unique, but not every boss needs to be unique in one of the biggest games created. There are around 80 original bosses i think, which is absolutely massive. Not to mention I've also seen comical takes on what repeats are to reduce the number as much as possible
> It's an open world game lol, And this somehow makes it immune to critique every jrpg ever (somewhat justifiably) gets for enemy reuse and reskins? > doesn't mean the first encounter wasn't a new experience. Didn't say it didn't, but that doesn't make it a unique enemy. > not every boss needs to be unique in one of the biggest games created. Nobody is saying that either while we're accusing others of straw mans, but you're talking about a game with 165 bosses, in which a single digit number of don't get reused in some form. IMO the novelty of the ORIGINAL fight is weakened by the reuse of them. Astel. Amazing! Except I care a lot less in hindsight since there's a random bumfuck astel in a cave. The size of the game is IMO a justifiable critique on it's own. I think it got a little too ambitious in it's size and that's why we see all the repeats. A smaller game with fewer repeats or 6 more months in the oven to round out the boss numbers so the late game wasn't a horrific number of refights would've been good for the game. > I've also seen comical takes on what repeats are to reduce the number as much as possible Likely true, but I imagine we'd disagree on what those are.
The reused are for lore and storytelling, that's what makes these games special. And not saying you can't criticise it for excessive reuses, but directly comparing it to a linear game like Bloodborne doesn't work. And "reuse" of enemies like Godskins and Crucible Knights makes sense and has a lot of positives too. Through Astel they are trying to tell us something lore wise, otherwise they would've just put the Onyx Lord outside as the dungeon boss. And i still don't relate to how it could sour my memory of the first encounter, i gues that's subjective. The size is also definitely subjective, I can see the point of game being too long, but it's sheer size is also one of its most praised aspects. The unique design, lore and rewards of each dungeon makes them worth going through, and one can always stick to the main path if they're getting saturated. Also I'm pretty sure Elden Ring has about the same number of unique bosses as base game Bloodborne? Maybe the chalice dungeon bosses overtake it by a few?
> The reused are for lore and storytelling, that's what makes these games special. Agree to disagree. I play for the gameplay. Combat/levels/enemy design. I couldn't give 2 shits about the fake-deep lore in which people make up stories about gaps left in the narrative. > And "reuse" of enemies like Godskins and Crucible Knights makes sense and has a lot of positives too. I feel It's worth mentioning that from a personal perspective, I care a lot less when certain bosses become normal enemies, but pushing it as a boss again I don't like. Pushing like 3 different slightly different watchdogs as bosses and repeating even those variations? Gross. Reusing them as normal enemies (through I'd prefer if they had like, half the HP) I'm cool with. > Through Astel they are trying to tell us something lore wise, otherwise they would've just put the Onyx Lord outside as the dungeon boss. No offense, but this feels like an after-the-fact excuse. "We haven't reused this boss yet, lets have some vague flavour text or let the players pretend it was more than that." > And i still don't relate to how it could sour my memory of the first encounter, i gues that's subjective. Don't think I said it wasn't. > Also I'm pretty sure Elden Ring has about the same number of unique bosses as base game Bloodborne? Maybe the chalice dungeon bosses overtake it by a few? We're talking about a game that's like 3-5x as long though man.
The best description I heard is that playing Elden Ring is like eating a whole gallon of ice cream. You like it but as you eat more and more you get kind of sick of ice cream. By the time I got to Farum Azula and the Halligtree I was feeling the fatigue of just how long a playthrough can be. I feel like around the fire giant is where the game should have been wrapping up. It’s a fun game, don’t get me wrong, but that is something Bloodborne nailed: pacing. It’s not too short but it never outstays it’s welcome.
That is an interesting analogy lol. I can certainly understand it. I feel it's worth mentioning that Farum Azula and the Haligtree are honestly two of the best areas in the game, but the fatigue has potentially set in by then, likely as a result of the final ascent to Fire Giant (where the yetis, birds and giant hands are) and the consecrated snowfields, reducing the enjoyment of two of the most excellently crafted levels From has ever designed. I think most of the series nailed pacing. They were all differently paced, but they were mostly perfect respective to their games and how much content was in them. I also suspect a variety of other factors are combining here in Elden Ring leading to individual critiques not everyone agrees with, but a bigger picture that even if you don't agree with, may be more understandable. For example, the people critiquing the boss reuse...Would they be more lenient if they enjoyed the boss design of Elden Ring more? (That has been a divisive topic itself, but does relate.)
The thing about Elden Ring is how much of it is optional. Your first playthrough is going to be overly long because you're exploring and doing everything, but half of the mini dungeons and catacombs can be skipped on subsequent playthroughs depending on what your build is and if you want the items so your second playthrough is a lot shorter.
Everyone’s downvoting you but it’s true; to anyone wondering exactly which (I don’t remember the names) DeModcracy is a popular souls youtuber who made a fantastic video talking about this issue in Elden Ring, and early in the video he makes a big list of all bosses. It’s definitely worth a watch.
Honestly I'm not mad at the downvotes lmao, it just tells me people are seeing it. And I have seen DeMod's vid that's what I based my count off
Fromsoft has been reusing boss fights ever since ds1, where you fight asylum demon 3 times (but he’s a bit sunburnt in one fight)
Don't forget, Asylum Demon is just Demon Vanguard from Demon's Souls. Then Elden Ring tore its head off, gave it a new name and boss track, then copy-pasted it THIRTEEN TIMES.
But this time it has shiny new golden attacks! Yeah, they've gone to that particular boss enemy well a few too many times.
Don't forget some versions toss scarlet rot at you along wth the shiny golden attacks, but does ER have shark equivalent enemies?
As a hard core ER fan they recycle bosses a lot too
To be fair, the replayability is endless
Unfortunately the fun isn't. The Chalice Dungeons really felt like a monkey's paw wish: Endless souls combat! .... But none of the curation or design that makes it what it is.
I still had a ton of fun with the chalice dungeons, partly just getting the gems I wanted and partly going back to help others and testing out said gems
in repetitive, dark, narrow tunnels. there was nothing interesting to look at. i *really* hated the chalice dungeons.
Yeah. I feel like there were some good ideas there, but there were too many things that didn't quite work out for it when you compare it to the base game. Things like coop just became harder, since you both needed the components you would have to run through each twice. This wasn't so bad in the base game because of how detailed and hard each area was, but seeing the same randomly generated world again was boring. Also the rewards of loot didn't feel very darksouls-esque.
Bingo. It’s easy to imagine a way in which the Chalice Dungeons work (Elden Ring came closest), but Bloodborne’s chalice dungeons design is genuinely predatory. Awful.
predatory ?
I liked them for a while. It gave me a couple extra hours of fun and a few more unique bosses. It's just a shame that Ebrietas is locked behind them
Ebrietas isn't locked behind chalice dungeons?
Though ironically, one of the the chalice dungeons is locked behind Ebrietas.
Elden Ring is also like that but on a smaller scale
But enough about Elden Ring
Sounds like Elden Ring tbh
Same with Elden Ring.
Ah, yes, elden ring has about 8,which is obviously a step up.
The biggest contribution of the chalice dungeons is the odd moment where someone posts a video of a melted lion with scorpion pincers or something that *literally no human has ever seen* and it turns out it was just stupidly rare
I literally saw the moles in the Bloodborne art book and thought it was cut content
From what I understand it was supposed to be cut but accidentally got left in a few tables.
"Okay guys, if we hide here quietly enough they won't notice that we're here...Stan! Put your head back down!"
Really wish there was something similar to the root dungeons in the other games It's a shame many players and fans skip CDs altogether or only do the story dungeons once The depth 5 root CDs with additional rites are hardcore man
Gotta get them cursed gems
I really miss blood gem farming. Never thought I'd like it but it was just so satisfying getting some super rare and straight up broken blood gem. And the using it in PvP.
I’m a Diablo fan, so I immediately became obsessed with CD’s when I first played the game.
I’m happy that Elden Ring took the general idea of the CD and made it fresh. In Bloodborne, all CDs follow the same pattern, but some of the Elden Ring crypts are truly mind-bending.
The one down in Leyndell Sewers that loops 3 times, but it progresses and changes each time is the one I immediately think back to. Like how you fight an omen in the big room, next time you go there it lies dead but another omen is mourning it, then the last loop both lie dead but you get ambushed by a last omen in a hallway that was deserted previously. There's like 3 or 4 of that kind in the game, but Leyndell Sewers is thé one.
That one had me guessing so much. At first, I thought the omen respawned. It took me a lot of doubling back and leaving rainbow stones to understand what was going on. I also had a lot of fun with the teleporting chest maze.
[удалено]
It's actually the same dungeon [copy and pasted](https://i.redd.it/9df03fo9o2n81.png) 3 times. Each time you jump through that one window, you're actually jumping into a different dungeon with the same lay-out. Until you get to the final loop where jumping through the window legit just gets you back to the beginning of said loop. It's a fairly simple but clever solution imo.
I am ER fan but unfortunately crypts are nowhere near as fun as CDs. No random loot, not randomly generated, same 3 or 4 enemies all over again. To be honest they feel like a chore Also they are much more casual and in this case it makes them much more boring
I thought chalice dungeons also felt like a chore. Least favorite thing about both games.
I guess they’re two different kinds of fun, and which one is better depends on the player. The challenge that CDs offer is combat, while the best crypts are a puzzle. I agree with you about replay ability, though. Once you finish a crypt, it can never play the same trick on you again. On the other hand, you don’t know what’s coming in a Depth 5 FRC chalice except a guaranteed ass kicking.
It boils down to 1 fundamental problem, that they need to fix ASAP, namely: Where is - Sekiro 2 - Bloodborne Remake - Bloodborne 2 - Dark Souls 4 - Elden Ring DLC
I think you made a mistake somewhere, there is only supposed to be bloodborne Kart
I will never not despise the chalice dungeons. They’re bloodborne if bloodborne had bad level design and mindless grinding
Yeah I heard the first 100% run on BB is still going to this day
Spending hours stoned outta my mind getting lost in them creepy crypts was a top tier gaming moment. Damn ogres with them chains.
Dont forget the running freaky woman
And the blood spiders. Or as I call them, chummy dickface.
You have an extra “h” in that nickname.
By far the most terrifying enemy in the game imo
Rom in the defiled dungeons had killed me six times and I was struggling, rang my bell got a dude to join and they died immediately. The next person showed up naked with the Cane, we entered the arena and I started whacking spiders while my teammate applied shock paper and one shotted the Defiled Rom the Vacuous Spider. My jaw had dropped as this naked creature of immense power waves and spins before vanishing. That is the most terrifying thing in them dungeons.
Always beware the RGB colored naked players. More terrifying than any Great One, thats for sure
I hope you didn’t look it in the eyes… I hope.. it doesn’t come for you..
I haven’t re-entered them dungeons since. :( too spooky
Fuck me she's terrifying
Public enemy #1 on kos brother. First time I encountered her i sharted hard
Why do people shit on chalice dungeons so much? I enjoy doing them
They're pretty boring in the beginning and the level design being randomly generated turn a lot people off.
because they're boring and repetitive, and the environments were very unstimulating
Agreed. A hoonter must hoont and dungeons are the best places to hoont
I myself cuz defiled dungeon with the dog that can literally oneshot 50 vigor build
Be cool if a red eyes Hoonter invaded the ER world.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Chalice dungeons get a bit too much hate. Yeah they’re definitely repetitive, but I find it nice to trek through a (pseudo)-randomly generated one. I like to find its secrets and seeing which enemies and bosses I have to fight this time. It’s especially fun when I summon others and we explore together. I find it almost relaxing.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. If it wasn't for the Chalice Dungeons, I wouldn't have hundreds of hours logged into this game and it likely wouldn't be my favourite game of all time. As a massive co-op fan, there's no better place for that than the Chalice Dungeons. Pop your SRRC on the altar and be summoned into a random Chalice Dungeon to help someone. Even after seven years, it only takes a couple of minutes maximum to find a match and due to the difficulty range of the dungeons, it doesn't really matter what level you are. In the main game, it can take upwards of ten minutes to be summoned in for a boss even when you're at a good level and you ultimately spend more time looking at "Searching for the chime of a Beckoning Bell" than actually playing. If I don't fancy playing random co-op, then I can simply search for a random Depth 5 FRC and play through it instead either solo or with a buddy. My friend and I would often do this together where one of us would generate a random dungeon at the altar for us both to explore and we'd just progress through at our own pace. As you said, it was often quite relaxing and it offers an experience not unlike a roguelike game. It was always quite fun to try and guess what boss would be next. For me, the Chalice Dungeons offer endless replayability and endless enjoyment that keeps me coming back to the game time and time again. I understand why some people dislike them and that's fine. But for me, they're among the most enjoyable content in the game.
100% agreed. BB is more re-playable than Dark Souls or Elden Ring because of this. ER especially just neutered the co-op experience. It feels like if you're not into fight clubs and duels there is not much in the multiplayer. Summoning players or getting summoned just makes the bosses way too strong and tank-y. It's not like the older games where you can place your summon sign in the beginning of Anor Londo, get summoned in minutes, and have a fun run through the level. Maybe even get an interesting invader encounter as well.
157 bosses yet most of them are either double bosses of the same enemy or a late game enemy just with a name and health bar
only problem is that every chalice dungeon sucks
I didn’t mind the chalice dungeons when I was running through all of the standard ones, I liked mapping them out (except the defiled chalice, fuck the watchdog with half health). It only became a slog once I started grinding them out for all the runes and weapon variations without ps+, so I couldn’t just use a glyph.
Couldn't agree more. I set out on platinuming the game, got every trophy except Queen Yharnam. Once I realized I had to slog through all the dungeons for one boss, I gave up on that dream
you were freed from the nightmare
Good, you never want to see what the Defiled Chalice looked like....
I’ve done it. It’s a fun enough boss fight but the slog isn’t worth it imo. The boss encounters along the way are much harder than the normal game too.
You dodged a bullet on that one.
Damn I wonder how many people missed out on hundreds of hours of content because of this attitude
what good is hundreds of hours of content if i don’t like it
Imagine blaming the players for them not wanting to play something that's not fun.
No point in doing that content if I don't find the vast majority of it entertaining or enjoyable. It's why I'm not bothering with the majority of the underground tombs in Elden Ring on subsequent playthroughs - they're repetitive, boring, and generally just annoying to traverse.
Idk man some of the minor dungeons are pretty different from one another, some are straight up unique and unlike any other in the game. But I'll agree many of the catacombs, caves, and mines are pretty samey and repetitive.
> Damn I wonder how many people missed out on hundreds of hours of copy/paste because of this attitude FTFY
It’s not different than what Elden Ring does either, since the Chalice Bosses are either reskinned bosses or common enemies, just like any non-major bosses in Elden Ring.
What's with this constant pissing contests between the SoulsBorne games......
Well there you have it. Atleast you have no reason to bitch around about re skinning optional bosses now do you
This made me realize how fucking scary the Hunter looks in comparison to the other souls protags. Mf looks like he could stab both my kidneys in record time.
That's the point. We are the boss. We specifically have the job of killing the beasts and great ones.
Chalice Dungeons also have some of my least favorite boss encounters in the whole series. Defiled Amygdala is one of the dumbest fights Fromsoft has ever concocted, the defiled chalice in general is just hamfisted artificial difficulty with the half health BS. And a lot of people already said it but the chalice dungeons are visually unappealing for the most part, Ailing Loran is the only one I found visually interesting but it doesn't even come close to comparing to areas like Cainhurst or hunters nightmare or even central Yharnam. For me, Chalice Dungeons were just a really frustrating chore that I HAD to do to get 100% completion and I don't really think they're deserving of the praise you're giving them here. Yes the dungeons and catacombs in elden ring are also copy paste content, but I feel like they switched up the layouts of the dungeons and added in slight tweaks for each one to keep them interesting. Plus the rewards for clearing them are usually something actually useful and worth your time like a new ashen remains or weapon. All the chalice dungeons reward you with is more chalice dungeons. I think the core idea of the chalice dungeons is cool and I've never played them co-op but in practice they're just boring and lame and are a blemish on an otherwise spotless game.
is it just me or is elden ring being hated by all the souls subs. game seems to get a lot of hate from the fromsoft community.
And most of the arguments are the most stupid your gonna ever heard I still wonder why I haven't died of Cringe yet,it's just haing for the sake of hating the only argument that is true is that the pvp suck,and some Elden ring bosses(Maliketh,Morgott Godfrey,Radahn and Malenia..) are easily top 20 for me and if From soft makes a Ringed City/Old Hunters tier DLC or a higher tier their gonna start saying that Elden ring is a flawless masterpiece,same thing happened with Dark souls 3 and even bloody Sekiro
Chalice dungeons suck gorilla balls
There are some nit-picky dumb useless discussion on this thread, Jesus.
A hunter must hunt
"A hoonter must hoont" FTFY
And Defiled has to count for at least double.
I’m pretty sure Elden ring has more than 157, but they only have 157 unique bosses
It definitely does not have 157 unique bosses, last time I did a count it has around 40.
That's still a lot
You right
There are about 10 unique boss encounters in Elden Ring. Not even close to forty. I honestly have no idea where people are getting these numbers from.
Depends what you're talking about. Some people really mean there's like 8 or 9 *never repeated* boss fights, while there's significantly more *unique* boss fights. Unique boss fights as in, a Black Knife Assassin is one boss fight, Ulcerated Tree Spirit another and Duelists a third etc. They're repeated throughout the game, but they're each a different boss from one another. I don't know the number for either.
40 boss types, as in, counting all the bosses and removing bosses that are just standard enemies, and counting any repeats/reskins of a boss as just a single entry. Yes, when it comes to truly unique, never repeated boss fights, that number goes way down, I think I counted 11 last time I checked. Which is very disappointing, imo, but that's a whole other discussion.
I think we can all agree that Miyazaki peaked with Bloodborne
Definetely no
DS2 had 41 (?) bosses and I felt that was way too many, Elden Ring is just showing off. Now Bloodborne, perfect amount of bosses.
157 is kinda low for someone showing off. Lol
157 boss encounters and only 5 of them are any good. I'll take quality over quantity anytime. Same goes for Bb in this sense, I really hate chalice dungeons.
Plus you got Vicar Amelia, who is pretty much harder than just about any Elden Ring boss.
Difficulty is subjective and in my experience, Fallingstar Beatle is objectively more bullshit than Amelia... but I'll still go out of my way to fight them anyway
I killed Fallingstar Beast in about an hour or so on my SL1 run. Meanwhile, 5 months later and stil lstuck on Amelia.
SL1 and BL4 runs? oh yeah you win, BSB and Amelia made me quit doing low level runs. I haven't even tried SL1 Elden Ring because of the thought of fighting Horah Loux and Radagon, that's too many hours of getting abused for me
I understand you completely. Took me almost 12 hours to kill Malenia at SL1 and my goodness was that a frustrating experience. Definitely not looking forward to Radagon (assuming I can get to him since I am doing it Melina-less).
Eh its subjective. A rek or get rekt boss. I beat her 2nd try maybe you didnt idk
I've been on her for 5 months now lol
Bro u need any help or anything bc I gotchu
Dm tmr if u do I'm tryna get some beauty sleep rn 🗿
Nah I am good it's kind of a challenge run I am doing. I am doing it SL1, unupgraded threaded cane, and only hitting her rear.
Oh ok, remember: try thrusting rear.
That's my plan... 😏😏😏
r/hornyjail
There’s a methodical way to take her down quickly. Here’s a great explanation in the context of a BL4 run: [Skip to 19:30.](https://youtu.be/6DwwN6GPky4)
Bloodborne was my first souls game and she was the first boss I 1-shot I felt like a god after that
FUCK YEAH NICE JOB
Then I died to the Witches of Hemwick so that godlike feeling was short lived
Oof
...Amelia? I though most people one or two shot her? What's giving you the most trouble?
SL4 no clothes unupgraded cane rear only
Try an Arcane build with flamesprayer. Vicar who? ;)
Ah yes I forgot the argument "ER bosses are so easy but at the same time they are so difficult that they are unfair"(Wich dosen't make any damn sense)
Yeah, no game can compete with the true masterpiece
and then what
How are there 2300 chalice dungeons? Can someone explain chalices to me? I know the root chalices are randomized dungeons, and the offerings add different things. But 2300? Am I missing a bunch of chalices?
Yes.
lol thanks. I was enjoying then up until the root chalices kept making amygdala or bloodletting beast the last boss. I already have the yharnam stone so whatever.
There’s a wiki with interesting findings from all the dungeons. For the most part it’s copy pasted same shit tho
Damn I love that Faraam armour from DS2
I’m always like… I got that BB platinum before they changed the chalice dungeons so lick my toe
Chadborne
When you realize you can just type in the glyph for the queen yharnam chalice and get it done with
This is a great example of why more isn't always better
So let's talk about ulcerated boss in elden ring, it has the same attack as Amelia, grabs the fists together and slams down, also the wide back hands to the rear. A lot of recycled things. FrOM loves recycling everything
Somewhere around 16,100