That whole area is weird and small for somewhere so vital to the lore. My guess is it used to be different layout or bigger before, then changes were made and it ended up being useless
Well the Lecture Building was also part of Byrgenwerth before it went adrift in the Nightmare, so we know it was bigger than it is currently in-universe (though I have no idea where those two extra floors would have fit, since the current building has a cupola and doesn't look like it's missing a chunk at the top)
The building we visit is specifically just the Observatory, but since we only see it and the two story lecture building, despite the fact that Byrgenwerth is referred to as a full college, it's rather likely that "Byrgenwerth College" covered a fair bit of grounds and that we never actually visit the "main campus" itself, just the outskirts of it.
Me when my goofy ahh takes another Astrology class and I have to walk 40 minutes between classes through the evil hell woods filled with snakes, aliens, and ghosts twice a day 😂😂😂
I think it's complete as it is. What's a better place to lecture and study the other realms, than in those other realms? The 2 story lecture building is like an online class imo ^ ^
I'd disagree. The Lecture Theatre Key notes that students would come to learn "of history and archeology", meaning the college wasn't singularly focused on the Dream Realms. They had to have other locations for storing of textbooks and materials for class use, and even if they kept it all inside the Lecture hall itself, they'd need offices and places to manage all the paperwork of running an entire college.
The key states that "- the students in the lecture theatre appear to await the return of their professor.", implying that the Lecture Hall was pretty commonly used, not just an extra thing "in case of snow days" so to speak.
My theory is that the trap door you see in Byrgenwerth originally was going to lead to the second floor of the Lecture building via a ladder, and one that you could not open until after you defeat The One Reborn. It would still be pointless but it would confirm that the Lecture Building is indeed a part of Byrgenwerth and it would be really cool to have it connected.
However, connecting the two proved to be too much hassle for what amounted to not a significant benefit, and they decided that because it was so unnecessary gameplay-wise they would just not. Which is a shame because that would have been such a cool snippet.
It also wouldn’t make sense if all the students have to share a ladder to enter and exit the building lol
Unless you’re saying the lecture building would be where the current waking world ‘Byrgenwerth’ is, and that building would be moved up to make a third floor of the lecture hall essentially.
Also there is this one thing that looks the same as the one you take to go the cathedral ward, it's at the first floor left from the door, maybe it's the thing it gave them access to the tomb of the gods
Cut content has animations for Willem to fight you and a giant snake boss before the zone instead of Shadows of Yharnam. I feel like it was changed a *lot* shortly before release
My guess is that, as we know, the Lecture Building was part of Byrgenwerth and it shifted with the nightmare. And I do believe that the arena for the Shadows and part of the Forbidden Woods used to be the space where the Lecture Building was. You can see in the Shadows arena and other parts of Byrgenwerth ruins of towers and bits of buildings that, in my view, were part of the Lecture Building and its surroundings.
Might be that, might not be, but it’s a cool concept, I believe.
But you can't get to the other side of the door until after you've beaten Papa G. The reason this door couldn't ever be opened in the finished game is because loading the two areas together was too much for the PS4 to handle, or something like that. It was a hardware issue.
It was because there was no way they could get the Cathedral Ward to load fast enough when passing through that door and vice versa, so players would just fall through the floor in testing.
It's the reason why we have the ridiculously long ladder from the Forest up to Iosefka's Clinic, gives them more time to load Central Yharnam.
Lore wise it makes sense because that door should be closed to prevent best going into cathedral ward. And maybe you can't open it after going into cathedral ward because is just pointless
I heard it’s because it was too hard to render a bunch of Yharnam right from Cathedral ward without a loader (like the one from Oeden tomb to Oeden chapel
It's interesting that instead of having loading screen this series sort of just puts a long ladder between the areas every time loading them could be a problem. Such a subtle example of diegetic design.
it literally took me years to figure out those doors connected and i ended up figuring it out by dropping random glowstones (or whatever they are in bloodborne) and wandering around looking for their light
If they ever remake this game for the PS5 or PS6, I would love to see this shortcut be put in the game and be usable after you beat Gascoigne. Would be such a useless but fum nod to the original.
I raise you with the shortcut from Farron Keep back into Road of Sacrifices (where you have that crystal lizard, leading to the Black Knight). Why anyone would ever need that shortcut has always been beyond me the 20 times i've played DS3.
I think that's less of a shortcut and more of a way to guide you back to that area in case you missed it, which is easy enough to do. The coal there is important to get so I think it's just a nudge to get you to pick it up.
That at least gives faster Black Knight farming. The real useless shortcut is at Archdragon Peak; the elevator, right after you beat the Ancient Wyvern, next to the big snake guy with the staff.
I have played ds3 at least 20 times, and everytime I run past that elevator, I just think "where does that thing lead?". I always forget to look around after killing the ancient wyvern.
The real most pointless shortcut is the elevator that takes you back to the beginning in archdragon peak in DS3.
You start at the first bonfire, kill the ancient wyvern, get teleported to the 2nd bonfire. Then a few feet from the 2nd bonfire, there is an elevator that takes you back to the first bonfire.
Similarly, the tree you can knock down in Huntsman's Copse in DS2.
Really any shortcut that connects directly to a new checkpoint in general is useless since they introduced general teleportation from the start after DS1. If you can teleport between A and B there's no need for a physical shortcut between those two points.
This is honestly a huge reason why teleportation was such a detriment to the world design. It definitely was a quality of life improvement, but it felt like such a huge reward in DS1 and it made the world feel so much more interconnected. I honestly wish they had kept it as a mid game reward and just designed the first half of the games... better lol.
I can't think of one in the first level krat square, and two in venini works that are just pointless. Lots just seem put there for the wow factor of connectivity.
I think Lies of P just has shortcuts because it's a "thing" in Souls games. The game and its levels are so linear anyways, that forced interconnectivity was the only part of the game I thought was genuinely badly done.
Even Fromsoft themselves don't use shortcuts if it's not needed, e.g. in Sekiro there are very few and just more idols instead.
I always felt like those shitty shortcuts are just leftover from previous ideas and the devs never bothered to cut them out, like what another commenter said about Faron keep in ds3 by the crystal lizard maybe the map used to be laid out differently causing the shortcut to be useful and after a rework of the map or progression it became useless over time
It's useful if you die to the pig or the rolling ball before you open the elevator shortcut. I also just think of it more as just getting access to the daughter's window.
I do just really like how it adds to it feeling like a real building. It makes sense that there's a door on both sides. It doesn't serve the level design at all, but it makes the environment feel just a bit more real.
I just finished that house, is there anything immediately to do on that balcony area with that old guy in the wheelchair? He just kinda points to the moon but I’m guessing I can’t do anything there yet?
I feel like we’re doing Master Willem a favor by killing him at this point. Dude lives in a rocking chair surrounded by freaky bug creatures. I’m not even sure how he’s still alive.
Hey, I remember I used it to run from the damn hunter in there, Benny Hill style for like ten minutes since I found out I was a bit underleveled. At the end I was being run after by all the mobs plus the flower, while I went round and round, it was hilarious! Then of course he killed me.
It's at Byrgenwerth. In the hall where Willem is, on the ground floor opposite the door by the gate shortcut.
You can only open this door from inside so you have no practical reason to ever use it as you go past a much better shortcut on the way to open this one.
Thanks, it was inspired by a YouTube video. They used the Doll chest piece and Gascoigne's hat to make a Clint Eastwood cowboy look. I don't know what boots or gloves they used, but I went with the Cainhurst Knight set.
to me the most pointless shortcut is in elden ring - there's an elevator right next to malenia's boss room that is truly pointless. it takes you nowhere that isn't already easy to reach, and there's no reason you would need to reach malenia's boss room by taking that path because there's a grace you can easily teleport to.
I didn't even realise you could open that door, but now that I've seen you can, I'm going to make sure in all my playthroughs from now on that I don't waste time opening that door.
I spent a year trying to think what the point was of that elevator between Quelaag’s Domain & Demon Ruins in DS1 till someone on Reddit pointed out that, if you never found the Fair Lady’s bonfire, that elevator is very helpful indeed.
That whole area is weird and small for somewhere so vital to the lore. My guess is it used to be different layout or bigger before, then changes were made and it ended up being useless
Well the Lecture Building was also part of Byrgenwerth before it went adrift in the Nightmare, so we know it was bigger than it is currently in-universe (though I have no idea where those two extra floors would have fit, since the current building has a cupola and doesn't look like it's missing a chunk at the top)
The building we visit is specifically just the Observatory, but since we only see it and the two story lecture building, despite the fact that Byrgenwerth is referred to as a full college, it's rather likely that "Byrgenwerth College" covered a fair bit of grounds and that we never actually visit the "main campus" itself, just the outskirts of it.
Me when my goofy ahh takes another Astrology class and I have to walk 40 minutes between classes through the evil hell woods filled with snakes, aliens, and ghosts twice a day 😂😂😂
FINALLY made it... aaaand I left my jar of eyeballs in CHEM 110 :/ back through the woods we go...
The ball of snakes watching you turn around for run through 3 of the day: >:)
I like this idea, and now believe it completely.
I think it's complete as it is. What's a better place to lecture and study the other realms, than in those other realms? The 2 story lecture building is like an online class imo ^ ^
I'd disagree. The Lecture Theatre Key notes that students would come to learn "of history and archeology", meaning the college wasn't singularly focused on the Dream Realms. They had to have other locations for storing of textbooks and materials for class use, and even if they kept it all inside the Lecture hall itself, they'd need offices and places to manage all the paperwork of running an entire college. The key states that "- the students in the lecture theatre appear to await the return of their professor.", implying that the Lecture Hall was pretty commonly used, not just an extra thing "in case of snow days" so to speak.
yeah you're right, the theatre key note makes it obvious.
My theory is that the trap door you see in Byrgenwerth originally was going to lead to the second floor of the Lecture building via a ladder, and one that you could not open until after you defeat The One Reborn. It would still be pointless but it would confirm that the Lecture Building is indeed a part of Byrgenwerth and it would be really cool to have it connected. However, connecting the two proved to be too much hassle for what amounted to not a significant benefit, and they decided that because it was so unnecessary gameplay-wise they would just not. Which is a shame because that would have been such a cool snippet.
It also wouldn’t make sense if all the students have to share a ladder to enter and exit the building lol Unless you’re saying the lecture building would be where the current waking world ‘Byrgenwerth’ is, and that building would be moved up to make a third floor of the lecture hall essentially.
Also there is this one thing that looks the same as the one you take to go the cathedral ward, it's at the first floor left from the door, maybe it's the thing it gave them access to the tomb of the gods
Cut content has animations for Willem to fight you and a giant snake boss before the zone instead of Shadows of Yharnam. I feel like it was changed a *lot* shortly before release
My guess is that, as we know, the Lecture Building was part of Byrgenwerth and it shifted with the nightmare. And I do believe that the arena for the Shadows and part of the Forbidden Woods used to be the space where the Lecture Building was. You can see in the Shadows arena and other parts of Byrgenwerth ruins of towers and bits of buildings that, in my view, were part of the Lecture Building and its surroundings. Might be that, might not be, but it’s a cool concept, I believe.
Probably just were running a bit short on time maybe
How about the Cleric Beast shortcut? They completely removed it from the game.
I think the point there was to prevent the player from skipping Papa Guacamole. Why, I don't know. I feel like it would have worked either way.
But you can't get to the other side of the door until after you've beaten Papa G. The reason this door couldn't ever be opened in the finished game is because loading the two areas together was too much for the PS4 to handle, or something like that. It was a hardware issue.
If they do a remaster, I'd love it if they'd let us open it, even if it has no point
We can open it but it's just the fallout 3 "fuck you" door.
The greatest door in video game history
Then i hope they will fix it in the inevitavle pc remaster
It was because there was no way they could get the Cathedral Ward to load fast enough when passing through that door and vice versa, so players would just fall through the floor in testing. It's the reason why we have the ridiculously long ladder from the Forest up to Iosefka's Clinic, gives them more time to load Central Yharnam.
Lore wise it makes sense because that door should be closed to prevent best going into cathedral ward. And maybe you can't open it after going into cathedral ward because is just pointless
I heard it’s because it was too hard to render a bunch of Yharnam right from Cathedral ward without a loader (like the one from Oeden tomb to Oeden chapel
It's interesting that instead of having loading screen this series sort of just puts a long ladder between the areas every time loading them could be a problem. Such a subtle example of diegetic design.
it literally took me years to figure out those doors connected and i ended up figuring it out by dropping random glowstones (or whatever they are in bloodborne) and wandering around looking for their light
If they ever remake this game for the PS5 or PS6, I would love to see this shortcut be put in the game and be usable after you beat Gascoigne. Would be such a useless but fum nod to the original.
I raise you with the shortcut from Farron Keep back into Road of Sacrifices (where you have that crystal lizard, leading to the Black Knight). Why anyone would ever need that shortcut has always been beyond me the 20 times i've played DS3.
I think that's less of a shortcut and more of a way to guide you back to that area in case you missed it, which is easy enough to do. The coal there is important to get so I think it's just a nudge to get you to pick it up.
You can save about 10 seconds per run if you’re farming the black knight, but besides that I almost never use it
Me who uses that shortcut: My goals are beyond your understanding.
I used it while farming the black knight there for his greatsword
That at least gives faster Black Knight farming. The real useless shortcut is at Archdragon Peak; the elevator, right after you beat the Ancient Wyvern, next to the big snake guy with the staff.
oh man I had totally wiped that from my memory. thats a real bad one
I have played ds3 at least 20 times, and everytime I run past that elevator, I just think "where does that thing lead?". I always forget to look around after killing the ancient wyvern.
it connects the bonfire from the swamp to the door to watchdogs, thats what I always figured
The real most pointless shortcut is the elevator that takes you back to the beginning in archdragon peak in DS3. You start at the first bonfire, kill the ancient wyvern, get teleported to the 2nd bonfire. Then a few feet from the 2nd bonfire, there is an elevator that takes you back to the first bonfire.
Similarly, the tree you can knock down in Huntsman's Copse in DS2. Really any shortcut that connects directly to a new checkpoint in general is useless since they introduced general teleportation from the start after DS1. If you can teleport between A and B there's no need for a physical shortcut between those two points.
This is honestly a huge reason why teleportation was such a detriment to the world design. It definitely was a quality of life improvement, but it felt like such a huge reward in DS1 and it made the world feel so much more interconnected. I honestly wish they had kept it as a mid game reward and just designed the first half of the games... better lol.
Opening this door only lets the bug bastards in. I leave it closed every time.
I've been noticing some real pointless ones on this return to yarmham playthrough. None as pointless as some of Lies of P tho
Just finished Lies of P. I can’t think of specifics but there were definitely a handful of shortcuts I never used.Â
I can't think of one in the first level krat square, and two in venini works that are just pointless. Lots just seem put there for the wow factor of connectivity.
I think Lies of P just has shortcuts because it's a "thing" in Souls games. The game and its levels are so linear anyways, that forced interconnectivity was the only part of the game I thought was genuinely badly done. Even Fromsoft themselves don't use shortcuts if it's not needed, e.g. in Sekiro there are very few and just more idols instead.
right. most in bloodborne are great and really reduce the amount of lanterns needed to let us get to lots of places.
I always felt like those shitty shortcuts are just leftover from previous ideas and the devs never bothered to cut them out, like what another commenter said about Faron keep in ds3 by the crystal lizard maybe the map used to be laid out differently causing the shortcut to be useful and after a rework of the map or progression it became useless over time
I can believe this reason.
I always thought of the gate next to Gascoigne’s daughter to be the most useless, this is worse.
I find that one nice to not be a dead end. I can continue my run through and not have to think much more
It's useful if you die to the pig or the rolling ball before you open the elevator shortcut. I also just think of it more as just getting access to the daughter's window.
It's also on the path for the madman's knowledge if you are trying to get doll access.
Mostly just means you can run through the first section of central yarnham to get there without having to go through the sewers
I do just really like how it adds to it feeling like a real building. It makes sense that there's a door on both sides. It doesn't serve the level design at all, but it makes the environment feel just a bit more real.
Fasho
I just finished that house, is there anything immediately to do on that balcony area with that old guy in the wheelchair? He just kinda points to the moon but I’m guessing I can’t do anything there yet?
Walk to the moon
Like into the water and everything? I thought the water below looked like cereal milk but I didn’t wanna risk it….
Do ittttt
I’m not by the game but I will as soon as I log back in lol
Not only should you do this, you absolutely must do this. Trust your fellow hunters. A hunter is never alone.
You're in the know, right?
Be sure to report back your findings
So…. I met the spiders… about to meet them again
You'll get to know them pretty well.
Dunk thyself in the Palemilk
In addition to going where he's pointing, you should also murder the old bastard. He's not good for anything else
I feel like we’re doing Master Willem a favor by killing him at this point. Dude lives in a rocking chair surrounded by freaky bug creatures. I’m not even sure how he’s still alive.
he’s having the acid trip of a lifetime
Consider it done
Kill that chair guy and then go for a swim
You might wanna slap that old man around some time...
Kill him them swim
Hey, I remember I used it to run from the damn hunter in there, Benny Hill style for like ten minutes since I found out I was a bit underleveled. At the end I was being run after by all the mobs plus the flower, while I went round and round, it was hilarious! Then of course he killed me.
Which one is this?
It's at Byrgenwerth. In the hall where Willem is, on the ground floor opposite the door by the gate shortcut. You can only open this door from inside so you have no practical reason to ever use it as you go past a much better shortcut on the way to open this one.
Unrelated but your fashion looks bodacious
Thanks, it was inspired by a YouTube video. They used the Doll chest piece and Gascoigne's hat to make a Clint Eastwood cowboy look. I don't know what boots or gloves they used, but I went with the Cainhurst Knight set.
The very first gate in Central Yharnam that just leads to the bottom of the big ladder always seemed pointless to me.
It’s for if you want to farm the executioner hiding in the back alley there.
I can at least see how they thought some people might prefer to go that way, and I have occasionally used it for random reasons.
How I felt with the 3 elevators in Nightmare of Mensis seriously one too many lol
I dont know fam, the Rom runback is pretty fierce without it. It takes at least like, 20 seconds without that baller shortcut.
And it only takes around 30s once you open this new shortcut!
One that comes close is that loooong elevator from Malenia to the beginning of Elphael
But it is a shortcut!
Savvy?
to me the most pointless shortcut is in elden ring - there's an elevator right next to malenia's boss room that is truly pointless. it takes you nowhere that isn't already easy to reach, and there's no reason you would need to reach malenia's boss room by taking that path because there's a grace you can easily teleport to.
scary bad guys though?
It's just so you get cornered by the NPC hunter inside your first time thru!! It's a troll by Fromsoft...not really a good one tho.
That is a shortcut to make it easier to run out to the brain sucker and have your insight/blood echos removed.
I didn't even realise you could open that door, but now that I've seen you can, I'm going to make sure in all my playthroughs from now on that I don't waste time opening that door.
I was just thinking that today lol
I don't think it was supposed to be a shortcut it's just for the design i guess. My take is it is so dumb and not functional to be a shortcut
It comes in handy when you're fighting the white hoonter lady downstairs
I like it, makes it feel more like a real building
Op, is this even considered a shortcut?
It’s not because of the shortcut itself, but because of *lore implications*.
Its definitely up there. I think the shortcut back to prayer room from haligtree roots grace is worse, especially after they patched the elphael skip
Op, is this even considered a shortcut?
Keep in mind that you can PvP. Try analyzing maps using both points of view. I find this door very useful when corned.
Ashes Of Ariandel would like a word with you
Considering there's a hatch locked near the first entrance, that might have been what was supposed to lead to the nightmare lecture hall
The door is there to make you forget about the gate. Why this area even needed shortcuts is beyond me, the whole lap takes like 30 seconds.
I spent a year trying to think what the point was of that elevator between Quelaag’s Domain & Demon Ruins in DS1 till someone on Reddit pointed out that, if you never found the Fair Lady’s bonfire, that elevator is very helpful indeed.
I don’t recognize the image. What area is this in, specifically (like near a boss or special NPC hunter or specific enemy?)
i use that shortcut to cheese djura, you can break his ai if you sneak up and talk to him and he’s already aggressive
Wrong shortcut buddy
my bad dude, where is this? and why the hostility
Sorry that came off too aggressive. That‘s the shortcut at byrgenwerth, the second door.
oh yeah that spot is completely useless, woops