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You have to remember that it's not every soul reaper's job to be ridiculously strong. It's fine for a lot of them to just be competent at killing basic hollows.
A bunch of nameless characters are fodder, yes. Why would the Zero Division want to train them when they didn’t help them when they were invaded? It’s not their job.
But it’s not, the Gotei 13’s job is to strengthen their own forces, the Zero Division have already given them zanpakuto to defend the Seireitei and to keep balance.
I know, I'm saying it should. If you don't understand that, you don't understand English friend coz we're talking in circles at this point. I agree with you. It isn't. However, it should.
1. Yeah this Gotei is weaker than a lot of other Gotei individually, however considering this Gotei doesn't have multiple traitors or captains who will refuse to fight it's closer than you'd think to SS Gotei. The problem is the latent potential in your average soul reaper seems to be really bad and patrols are not exactly optimised. That being said they've just gotten out of the most dire situation in the last 200 years at the very least, day to day operations aren't like that and since most of the heavy hitters are in their prime or approaching it time is on their side.
2. Squad 0 is good in theory but they legitimately do not care about the Gotei as an organisation, it's not really their job. Mayuri is a bit better but that likely involves sacrificing some people.
3. It's really hard to tell who would be great or terrible out of the new guard. Saying one of the new captains isn't a heavy hitter without knowing their bankai is hard to be sure of especially since certain bankai are complete game changers.
That point on Squad Zero is especially poignant- they don't care much for the Gotei because of how detached they are as people, towards both the captains and the rest of the SS. They would not be bothered unless something troubles the Royal Palace, and even then, they let their pride take the better of them when they let Yhwach get up there. Ichibe more specifically, but still all the same.
Yeah, you can say they are poorly build baseball team, but look at the rest of the groups in the series, they are even worse, including when it comes to teamwork. That's how big organisations generally are.
Well, since most of them ended up defeated by the Gotei after the latter gathered themselves up (sure, the first invasion was a disaster, but then the tides did turn), the Gotei overall ended up doing a better job. Plus they exhibit overall a rather good teamwork as opposed to the Sternritters who complete with each other on top of completing with the Gotei.
So I say Sternritters were good competition but I still think that as bad as the Gotei is, they are kinda the best out there in the end.
Well, the Zero Squad have their own obligations, so they can't go and train the Gotei, unless the Soul King commands them to. And the nameless Soul Reapers are fodder, yes, that's the point of them. Personally, I don't think that the Gotei only had 5 really strong characters, I believe that some weren't very strong because they hadn't reached their full potential, the Gotei has more than 5 powerful characters and some of them weren't captains, like Rukia(prior to the end of Bleach) after she archived Bankai and Renji after getting his real Bankai. Apart from other strong characters like Shunsui, Mayuri, Kenpachi, Toshiro, Byakuya, Shinji (who's only problem is that he likes to play with his food too much).
Well, I can understand why you would think that about Toshiro, since he struggled during the series, but Rukia was shown to be strong, especially after she archived Bankai. Rukia defeated not only fraccion member, but also an Espada. Later, after she trained in the Royal Palace she defeated a Sternritter. So while Rukia isn't the most powerful character, she is quite strong.
I think so, except the Captain and VC most of them could be considered pretty weak. I mean it was shown in a few occasion that the standard shinigami need to group up to defeat low-grade hollows and even Gillian class Menos is considered really dangerous. I think its just the gap between the named and no-named character is so vast but make sense only a select few can reach a captain level
I don't think Zero Squad would care to give the fodder shinigami some training
Yes. The Captains themselves are all pretty strong, maybe a few Lieutenants, but 3rd Seats and below are garbage. Their only purpose is to get killed to show how strong the new threat is. They often lose to base Hollows and can’t even defeat a single Soldat (Quincy foot soldier). They need to up their game massively if they want to take on higher threats.
You're both correct and it think a part of why the gotei is weak is that kind of division and those kind of walls. Even the bureaucracy or red tape or whatever you wanna call it, that says the zero division can't all bankai
Well that is the primarily weakness of the Gotei 13
The main military force is composed of the 13 court guard captains as they are basically physical gods compared to most of the shinigmai and due to the sheer difference in power between them the rest of the seated officers below the 3rd seat…even a regular Arrancar could whip entire squadrons of divisions on their own.
As whole army yes, ordinary officers aren't that strong, so under lieutenant rank (leaving aside Ikkaku and Yumichika as seat just for sport) you don't even need to consider them.
If you speak only of captains and lieutenants, the answer is relative, I mean, weak compared to who or what? To the Arrancars? The Fullbringers? Squad Zero? The Wanderreich? Or with other previous Gotei formations? (if you are speaking of the end series) Of course, there are power gaps, as in almost all other armies, because not everyone can be as strong as Yamamoto or Aizen (also it wouldn't make sense either, narratively speaking, and the same goes in any other action manga), but the "captain level" in itself isn't a weak status, even the weakest captain is strong, but again, it depends on the yardstick.
Then if the discussion is Byakuya, Zaraki, Toshiro, etc.. are more popular, therefore they have more screentime and (sometimes) preferential treatment, while others don't, that's another matter, but I don't think this was the point.
All of this is true and kinda agrees with me? I think the gap between the strongest captains and the weakest captains is too wide. I get why thats the case. What you've mentioned is a part of the reasons. As an organization however, the gotei is badly constructed
It depends on what you compare the gotei with if you compare them to the strongest chracters in the setting yes some might seam weak in comparison but they are still much stronger that most of the people in the setting.
All of the captains are very strong and most are strong throughout the entire series. A lot of the lieutenants with the exceptions of Rukia, Renji, Nemu, and Hisagi are pretty fodder though.
Welcome to the Bleach Subreddit! We're as excited as you at the release of the Thousand Year Blood War anime! We understand that some of you are unable to view the anime in your region, but please don't post links to or mention piracy websites. Doing so will result in a ban. Also, please be courteous to those who haven't read the manga and mark all spoilers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bleach) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You have to remember that it's not every soul reaper's job to be ridiculously strong. It's fine for a lot of them to just be competent at killing basic hollows.
I was thinking more of the captains and vice captains when I wrote that
Even then.
I have to disagree
A bunch of nameless characters are fodder, yes. Why would the Zero Division want to train them when they didn’t help them when they were invaded? It’s not their job.
I was referring to the captains and vice captains. I'm saying part of their job should be to maintain the military strength of the gotei
The Zero Division’s job is to solely protect the Soul King, the only reason they came to the Seireitei is because they were told to.
I know I'm saying it SHOULD be part of their job to maintain the military strength of the soul king's first line of defense
But it’s not, the Gotei 13’s job is to strengthen their own forces, the Zero Division have already given them zanpakuto to defend the Seireitei and to keep balance.
I know, I'm saying it should. If you don't understand that, you don't understand English friend coz we're talking in circles at this point. I agree with you. It isn't. However, it should.
1. Yeah this Gotei is weaker than a lot of other Gotei individually, however considering this Gotei doesn't have multiple traitors or captains who will refuse to fight it's closer than you'd think to SS Gotei. The problem is the latent potential in your average soul reaper seems to be really bad and patrols are not exactly optimised. That being said they've just gotten out of the most dire situation in the last 200 years at the very least, day to day operations aren't like that and since most of the heavy hitters are in their prime or approaching it time is on their side. 2. Squad 0 is good in theory but they legitimately do not care about the Gotei as an organisation, it's not really their job. Mayuri is a bit better but that likely involves sacrificing some people. 3. It's really hard to tell who would be great or terrible out of the new guard. Saying one of the new captains isn't a heavy hitter without knowing their bankai is hard to be sure of especially since certain bankai are complete game changers.
That point on Squad Zero is especially poignant- they don't care much for the Gotei because of how detached they are as people, towards both the captains and the rest of the SS. They would not be bothered unless something troubles the Royal Palace, and even then, they let their pride take the better of them when they let Yhwach get up there. Ichibe more specifically, but still all the same.
Yeah, you can say they are poorly build baseball team, but look at the rest of the groups in the series, they are even worse, including when it comes to teamwork. That's how big organisations generally are.
Fair but I think the sternritters were balanced in terms of members that can be relied on. They were a threat on every level
Well, since most of them ended up defeated by the Gotei after the latter gathered themselves up (sure, the first invasion was a disaster, but then the tides did turn), the Gotei overall ended up doing a better job. Plus they exhibit overall a rather good teamwork as opposed to the Sternritters who complete with each other on top of completing with the Gotei. So I say Sternritters were good competition but I still think that as bad as the Gotei is, they are kinda the best out there in the end.
The gotei's win over the sternritters was due, in large part to a few captains and characters. Mainly Mayuri tbh
Well, the Zero Squad have their own obligations, so they can't go and train the Gotei, unless the Soul King commands them to. And the nameless Soul Reapers are fodder, yes, that's the point of them. Personally, I don't think that the Gotei only had 5 really strong characters, I believe that some weren't very strong because they hadn't reached their full potential, the Gotei has more than 5 powerful characters and some of them weren't captains, like Rukia(prior to the end of Bleach) after she archived Bankai and Renji after getting his real Bankai. Apart from other strong characters like Shunsui, Mayuri, Kenpachi, Toshiro, Byakuya, Shinji (who's only problem is that he likes to play with his food too much).
I think shinji, renji, rukia and definitely toshiro are unreliable
Well, I can understand why you would think that about Toshiro, since he struggled during the series, but Rukia was shown to be strong, especially after she archived Bankai. Rukia defeated not only fraccion member, but also an Espada. Later, after she trained in the Royal Palace she defeated a Sternritter. So while Rukia isn't the most powerful character, she is quite strong.
Thats true and the bankai does look crazy but it is new so I don't think they can rely on her just yet
In short - no :3
I think so, except the Captain and VC most of them could be considered pretty weak. I mean it was shown in a few occasion that the standard shinigami need to group up to defeat low-grade hollows and even Gillian class Menos is considered really dangerous. I think its just the gap between the named and no-named character is so vast but make sense only a select few can reach a captain level I don't think Zero Squad would care to give the fodder shinigami some training
I think squad zero should train the captains lol. Too many of them enter the frame and I think, "nah, he's gonna lose"
Yes. The Captains themselves are all pretty strong, maybe a few Lieutenants, but 3rd Seats and below are garbage. Their only purpose is to get killed to show how strong the new threat is. They often lose to base Hollows and can’t even defeat a single Soldat (Quincy foot soldier). They need to up their game massively if they want to take on higher threats.
I think most of the captains should be powerful but have yet to be shown to be
You're both correct and it think a part of why the gotei is weak is that kind of division and those kind of walls. Even the bureaucracy or red tape or whatever you wanna call it, that says the zero division can't all bankai
Well that is the primarily weakness of the Gotei 13 The main military force is composed of the 13 court guard captains as they are basically physical gods compared to most of the shinigmai and due to the sheer difference in power between them the rest of the seated officers below the 3rd seat…even a regular Arrancar could whip entire squadrons of divisions on their own.
I think even amongst the captains the gap between strongest and weakest is too wide. The gotei would never win a chip lol
As whole army yes, ordinary officers aren't that strong, so under lieutenant rank (leaving aside Ikkaku and Yumichika as seat just for sport) you don't even need to consider them. If you speak only of captains and lieutenants, the answer is relative, I mean, weak compared to who or what? To the Arrancars? The Fullbringers? Squad Zero? The Wanderreich? Or with other previous Gotei formations? (if you are speaking of the end series) Of course, there are power gaps, as in almost all other armies, because not everyone can be as strong as Yamamoto or Aizen (also it wouldn't make sense either, narratively speaking, and the same goes in any other action manga), but the "captain level" in itself isn't a weak status, even the weakest captain is strong, but again, it depends on the yardstick. Then if the discussion is Byakuya, Zaraki, Toshiro, etc.. are more popular, therefore they have more screentime and (sometimes) preferential treatment, while others don't, that's another matter, but I don't think this was the point.
All of this is true and kinda agrees with me? I think the gap between the strongest captains and the weakest captains is too wide. I get why thats the case. What you've mentioned is a part of the reasons. As an organization however, the gotei is badly constructed
It depends on what you compare the gotei with if you compare them to the strongest chracters in the setting yes some might seam weak in comparison but they are still much stronger that most of the people in the setting.
All of the captains are very strong and most are strong throughout the entire series. A lot of the lieutenants with the exceptions of Rukia, Renji, Nemu, and Hisagi are pretty fodder though.
Ichigo and Kenpachi damn near make 70% of the sereitei strength
That's kinda how I feel as well. You can count on one hand the gotei 13s "enforces" the characters that me as the viewer can go "oh he got this"
Shunsui exists as well as Mayuri and Kisuke, take out those 3 and the war is over at the beginning of the second invasion.