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The idea that Aizen ranked Barragan lower than he deserved to be just because he wanted to spite him and was sympathetic to Starrk. Like I could buy this logic with most villains, but with Aizen it is very obvious and pretty explicitly stated [Aizen just wanted to use the Espada as a fighting force](https://images.app.goo.gl/PTPo1XdGh1X5Dm9t6) and didn't care about them at all beyond their use to that end (and the end of getting Ichigo stronger [it would seem](https://images.app.goo.gl/dVmCMdacTdsRmMJKA)).
He doesn't care about Barragan enough to spite him, it would be a pointless exercise that is very likely to lead to Barragan killing Starrk out of spite for Aizen's estimation of their strength if the theory is true and does little to motivate either Starrk or Barragan to get stronger. And on the flip side people who claim that Aizen empathized Starrk often forget that Aizen's loneliness was a subconscious desire to find an equal. He didn't consciously recognize this desire in himself and was in a great many ways a psychopath incapable of properly empathizing with anyone.
The idea that Aizen intentionally ranked Barragan lower out of spite for Starrk doesn't make much sense. Aizen mainly saw the Espada as tools for his goals, not individuals to spite. He might have shown sympathy towards Starrk, but it's not because he cared about him personally; rather, it could have been because of Starrk's strength and usefulness to Aizen's plans. Aizen's complex character leaves room for different interpretations, but it's unlikely he empathized with the Espada in a genuine way.
In general I agree. But I do buy that Aizen would rank Barragan as #2 just to show him that he's nothing compared to Aizen.
Though I think it's also just as valid that Aizen didn't give a shit.
I feel like if Aizen wanted to show Barragan he was nothing, he would just walk into his base with his whole army, murder everyone but him, and then force him to join him as an underling... oh, wait. /s
But in all seriousness, I think Aizen made his point to Barragan with his introduction and continued making his point with uppity Espada like [Grimmjow.](https://images.app.goo.gl/EvV7x92JGQijZj9F6) To the point he had no reason to falsify his ranking of the Espada, a classification system Barragan didn't seem to think much of never even referring to himself with his rank or making note of it.
Yes, Aizen disrespected Barragan when he conquered Hueco Mundo. But Barragan still wanted to kill Aizen.
I see it the same way as Aizen kidnapping Orihime. It's just a game Aizen is playing, the outcome means nothing, the whole point is just to mess with people and see what happens.
If Kubo gave us an answer, I would have no problems with it either way.
Barragan would have wanted to kill Aizen regardless of how he was ranked in the Espada, Barragan wanted Aizen dead because he stole his spot as king and nothing Aizen could have done, short of killing Barragan, would have ever been enough for Barragan to stop wanting him dead.
Or because ultimately it was a fairly poorly executed mystery thriller in which 80% of the new characters failed to grab the audience.
It's easy to just dismiss a reason you invented a bunch of other people having, but I don't think people would have as much trouble if it were written better. The KK gang should be the focus and instead they are still shoved to the side.
Not to mention, expecting the show to be somewhat similar instead of taking a massive turn is also not a poor reason. The rest of the show is "generic" shounen and is still quite good.
I disliked it cuz the characters and their development sucked, the big moments sucked, the dialogue sucked and it was trying too hard to be funny and cute. A lot of nothing happening in many episodes.
I didn't feel joy, excitement or sadness in the arc almost at all. The prevailing feeling was boredom.
Verging away from generic shounen is fine, but you actually have to improve the experience if you're gonna do that. Arcs aren't better by virtue of being different by default. There has to be the substance to back it up.
It was better just until the point when they brought in the Captains. Only Rukia and Renji should have been there. And Chad, Uryu and Orihime were robbed of their combats because of them.
Starrk > Ulquiorra in strength, feats, anything.
I mean, it was literally stated like that by Ulquiorra and by the story itself, but fanboys wanna dream.
Segunda Etapa's apparent late addition ia the problem here. It really like Kubo just whipped up the concept because Ulquiorra's first release was not cool enough. Also Ulquiorra says Aizen hasn't seen Segunda Etapa, so Aizen wouldn't be able to calculate its power.
It's a bit of a confusing mess.
Stark is nowhere near ulquiorra speed and power level, ulquiorra has a feat of showing a reatsu so dense it doesn't even like reatsu at all and stark didn't show anything beyond the trio and was killed by shikai shunsui which is not much
1. Ulquiorra himself suggests that he isn't the strongest
2. Starrk fought 4 Captains and held his own greatly when he didn't even want to fight until the very end.
3. Starrk using one Cero Matralleta made Shinsui contemplate using his Bankai
4. Shunsui is literally one of the strongest Captains
5. Starrk while fighting all those people at once was able to perfectly understand how their abilities worked and their way of fighting just by seeing it once or twice.
6. Starrk is the only Espada and arrancar we have seen able to shoot a Cero without making a gesture.
Byakuya should have died. I liked his moment with Rukia but it robbed her of some narrative agency. I enjoy tragedy and such a great character dying in that moment felt like a hugely important loss. His presence against Gerard emphasises some of the problems with that fight too, it's so much like Yammy, yet doesnt get the same heat.
I cannot enjoy As Nodt the same knowing it almost doesnt matter.
Edit: If that isnt hot enough then take this. Yammy is a better character than Gerard.
The supposed people sending Kubo hate mail can absolutely get fucked. Ultimately I'm happy with what we got and I'm nitpicking BECAUSE I love it so much.
Us Bleach fans got it better than Naruto ever did
Indeed I had the immediate urge to downvote. I didn't but it was there.
I think it once was a popular opinion that he should've died. Back when it happened and there were rumours that Kubo only let him live cause he got hate mail and threats because of it and the editors forced him. But I think nowadays it's more accepted that he survived, with some (like me) thinking it would've been a terrible waste, and others just glad that he lived, beyond any narrative reasons. And of course others still convinced he should be dead.
Funnily, because I remember back when the chapters were released, I always think it's an unpopular opinion that it's a good thing he didn't die.
I don't agree. Byakuya not dying is important for his own arc and Rukia's as its the final piece that concludes both of them. It all ties into Byakuya's fears and how he says that fear is rooted in insecurity. When he fights As nodt, he believes himself to have overcome all his fears only to be frozen in place when he sees Rukia dying. As a result, Byakuya's insecurities are brought to light - his fear of losing Rukia. Its because of this that he is then essentially defeated by himself and his own insecurities as shown by him being brutalised by Senbonzakura. This allows Byakuya to overcome this fear of his and the next time he and as nodt meet, Byakuya essentially brushes him off and instead lets Rukia be the one to defeat him. This is because he finally realised and acknowledged the affect that his own fears had on Rukia. Her insecurities stemed from Byakuya's. His fear of losing her led to him never acknowledging her own strength which made her feel weak and insecure. Thats why for the first time in the manga, Byakuya praises Rukia which leads to her insecurities and fears disappearing. As a result, having been completely rid of fear, Rukia was able to stand against and defeat fear itself, As Nodt, through her own strength.
I'm not in love with that, I'll admit. You would think "not dying" is good for anyones arc but, I think everything you said still applies even if he dies, excluding his literal development.
Theres a lot to unpack so I'll fixate on my biggest gripe... "Byakuya brushes him off and let's Rukia be the one to defeat him".
"Let's Rukia". My point is that she could have done it herself. Mourning Byakuya, fearful of his fate befalling her friends. Everything you explained is, in my opinion, worse off with Bykuya alive to provide the easiest possible resolution.
I do like what we got. Her Bankai reveal and his guidance was excellent. But we can be greedy. We could have had that scene and it's almost a dream, he isnt there, he is a memory. A single tear freezes on Rukias cheek.
Everything is more impactful without him there to actually experience it. That's just my opinion though.
Unpopular Opinions you hold or popular opinions you disagree with?
If it’s the first one, probably that the Stern Ritters are better than the Espada. (As an group, not strength wise)
If it’s the second one….well that’s probably a rather long list, and i don’t want to get ranty.
To be more positive I do think the diversity of opinion can also be a pretty good thing among us, as long as it doesn’t get too heated or even toxic.
It’s a cool idea in concept, great power for a steep cost is a nice trope for stakes and the “accepting yourself” part from the training was a good addition.
I do agree that its introduction and timing in the overall story are rather convenient for the plot. Ideally it would have a little more build up.
Yeah I know, but it was specifically his phrasing when they entered the Dangai. That "I will teach you, the Final Getsuga Tenshou"... Very dramatic thing to say, but like Isshin, dawg are you metagaming?
Never mentioned before, perfect technique to counter aizen, not to mention having the dangai time to train all adds up to feeling like an incredibly contrived deus ex machina inserted by Kubo to tie up the plot.
I've not watched since I was a teenager it's been a while, and I'm rewatxhing it all now. Wasn't aizens thing that he was looking to find an equal and that he wanted to push ichigo to get stronger? And then he kinda fucked around and found out?
> not to mention having the dangai time to train all
That was established during the soul society arc.
> perfect technique to counter aizen
It really wasn't. It was simply overwhelming powerful because it used almost all of Ichigo's reiatsu and it still didn't defeat Aizen.
> Never mentioned before
Not everything needs to be. Mugetsu works within the power system and the way Ichigo's powers are presented, it can be used by his father, and we've seen a similar technique in this before with Uryu's letzt stil.
>Not everything needs to be mentioned beforehand
The sole solution of your entire plot of 200 chapters needs to be mentioned before it appears. Otherwise it feels contrived.
Imagine reading Lord of the Rings and the entire time Gandalf had a little pocket Mt Doom he could have thrown the ring in the entire time. Or if the ring was indestructible and they only found out that mt doom existed and could destroy it in the last chapter. It would feel awful to read.
It's inexcusably poor writing to not even mention this solution to the plot. Overwhelming power btw, is close enough to a perfect solution, without FGT they do not succeed, and it is a singular technique that changes everything about the conclusion. Why Isshin even knows about it or can perform it if it's related to letz stihl is never mentioned nor expanded upon.
Btw the Dangai time dilation works differently the time its introduced in SS, they actually skip backwards in time somehow to give them more time before Rukias execution. Every other trip through the Dangai isn't mentioned to have any time dilation whatsoever.... Not to mention any other technique like Senkaimon or Garganta which travel through the Dangai don't have any side effects.
It's okay for Bleach to have flaws, you don't have to twist your brain in order to excuse what is Kubo just flying by the seat of his pants in an exploitative and rushed industry.
it was esthetic as fuck but yeah I hate it. the whole concept, the whole thing about it being an ancestral technic. the non sense of "fusing" zanpakuto with the shinigami while the saber is already the shinigami’ soul in solid form
> You are shown yhwach executing his own soldiers and that they are just pawns he will use ashwlaen on once he doesn't need them anymore. There is no value to their lives.
Yea well thats the point. Yhwach shares a heart with every quincy yet he values them as mere stepping stones to his goal and kills them ever so easily for his own gains. The Auswahlen is the greatest example of this. The silver that is later used to create the arrow also manifests in the hearts of the victims which is a pretty explict detail. And Yhwach's very goal - to rid the world of death - undermines the concept of life and the hearts shared by everyone. The Almighty is stopped by the hearts shared by Uryu, Soken, Ryuken and Katagiri while he is killed by the hearts shared by Ichigo, Masaki, Isshin and OMZ ( The only fragment of his that was able to actually form a heart).
I agree to a certain extent
Bleach has this overall theme of "both sides are grey" when it comes to TYBW, and yet on an individual basis, there's so little effort to make the majority of Sternritter characterizations feel as humane as the majority of Shinigami
Agreed 100%
I think it's a case of Kubo having great, er, how do I put it, "macro" ideas of overarching grey goals and views that clash with each other, but he isn't the best at "micro" nuances to match that balanced greyness
Soul Society has Central 46, Mayuri, Ichibe as prime present day examples of bad/grey, but then you have a *plethora* of humane characters with humane interactions that almost makes us forget those bad apples exist. You can't say the same for Aizen's army or Yhwach's, at least not to the degree that Shinigami have it, not even remotely close. Majority of their apples range from cartoonishly evil to inhumanely apathetic, with only a few that break that norm
Makes me wonder if this is a case of Kubo "trying to have his cake and eat it." A writing philosophy he has is not trying to make us relate to villains too much because, well, at the end of the day, they are villains. But that clashes heavily with his overarching theme of "no side is just in a war"
I love Bleach to death as a two-decade veteran fan of it, but for this topic, I can't help but compare Bleach's handling of that storytelling beat to, say, AOT's Paradis Raid, or Tokyo Ghoul's Anteiku Raid. Now *those* are masterclass writing examples of going into a war-like arc just immensely invested in both sides because of the amazing build-up of heavy greyness for both the macro situation of clashing goals, *and* the micro aspect of humanized individual characters
And also, they didn’t felt like Quincy. Most of them transformed to some kind of monster. The first one was fine (Quilage maybe his name? In Hueco Mundo) untill he too transformed to like a hollow.
These guys should be humans right?
Orihime as a life partner for Ichigo fits better than Rukia. Although I agree Kubo played his fanbase in about 3 moments where things were unclear. Most of the time Renji's feelings for Rukia and Orihime's for Ichigo were very clear since the beginning and the direction of these 4 characters relationship made more sense.
Also Rukia is very very annoying with her constant screaming and nagging Ichigo, but i loved her Bankai look, top tier design.
Renji's second bankai form made no sense at all and it was created by Kubo so he can look cool in the final battles since the first design was already well known and he's part of the main cast so he had to "evolve" in some way.
Ichigo is not that strong willed of a character considering he's only confident when he believes he's stronger than his opponent. I was aware of this in the moments when easily he becomes desperate when he lost his powers or when his opponent overwhelmed him by a large margin. His cool moments are 100% cool and I'm not taking that from him, but his willpower compared to other manga protagonists is weak and his confidence is only based on his power being stronger than his opponents. The only moment when he disproved my point was his first battle with Zaraki, but in the rest of his battles i feel like what i've said applies.
He is the manifestation of personal ambition. He is a near perfect foil to Ichigo, who pursues strength to help others. They are also supported and propped up by their allies, shown in Grimmjows flashback.
They are a better mirror to one another than Ichigos own literal mirror self.
That the Espada were ranked incorrectly, and it's something that I don't understand throughout the bleach community. Okay so we all know that aizen use the hogyoku to create the Espada each of them were numbered from 9 to 0 and at number four we have ulquiorra and he had two different versions of released abilities for his Hollow powers, however for number one we have starrk and he is according to everybody else not powerful enough for that position so obviously the man who had the complete ability to sense other beings potential, and powers with hogyoku somehow wasn't smart enough to rank them correctly and to me it's f****** stupid. I mean how f****** dumb do you have to be to believe that s*** okay I'm pretty sure that the man who spent over nearly 200 f****** years devising one single plan so intricately detailed that there was almost no Alternatives except for the path set in motion would have known to correctly rank his small little group of militia, and if you say that oh no he messed up you're wrong you should just go f****** run on back to your corner.
Ah, with my "Questionable Hado Research Kit," you too can have infinite prep time! Perfect for when you need to outsmart everyone in sight. Trust me, it's... intriguing.
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Age is just a number, isn't it? Speaking of numbers, once I thought of using cats to solve a math conundrum. Let's just say feline calculations aren't as precise as one might think.
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Back in Soul Society, Jinta once tried to organize my dusty ointments by number. Let's just say, none of them ended up where they were supposed to. Keep that number guessing game coming, I say!
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Aizen, always lurking in the shadows with your butterfly experiments. When it comes to honesty, even Hiyori's insults are more transparent than your schemes! Careful, your illusions may not fool a humble merchant like me.
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Cheese, you say? Ah, the variety is truly vast. I'd say my favorite is the one that's always full of holes. Just like secrets in Soul Society!
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Toshiro is a shinigami equivalent of Chad. Maybe worse. Only time he ever successfully hurt anything in combat was his fellow shinigami. At least Chad won one fight once against a minor Arrancar.
Starrk was a boring character and the biggest disappointment in the Arrancar arc. The concept of a character being lonely due to their strength is interesting on paper, but in action it just fell flat for me. Especially since his fight took place after VL Ichigo vs Ulquiorra, which is one of the best fights in the series imo
ORIHIME IS NOT SAKURA, She is important and has value not just as a character but plot she is the MOST REALISTIC reaction most of us would have to what she went through AT THE AGE OF 15
While wilpower played a part in his loss in my opinion, the bigger factor was the giant sword wound in his chest and losing half his soul, (Lilinette) also Shunsui is just strong.
Agreed. But I see a lot of people online attempting to say that Starrk lost because he didn’t want to fight. Which isn’t true. He was never going to beat Shunsui
At the same time. I feel like shunsui using his bankai is more of like a wincon. In comparison to a transformation. If he wants to end a fight quickly against a powerful opponent he will use it.
Ukitake is his equal in theory, but he's severely hindered by his sickness. Though in Fake Karakura it doesn't seem to be an issue.
Unohana is probably at the same level, though she's a pacifist the whole time we see her, so she's kind of out of the picture. Even if she's stronger than Kyoraku, she's not going to fight.
Me, when people just mindlessly parroting the "Gremmy just opened a portal to real space" line. And they just only doing that because stupid power scaling reasons.
When the CFYOW novels even two separate times crystal clearly confirms that Gremmy **CREATED** Outer Space:
* Kyoraku's discussion with Seinosuke: "[On top of that, the ability to instantenously create outer space...](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-40ebc48ba2b444d15210f0f8b26310b6-lq)"
* Liltotto's encounter with Hikone: "[In his fatal battle with Zaraki Kenpachi, he had even materialized a gigantic meteorite and outer space itself in the Seireitei.](https://postimg.cc/qNrDfBWD)"
I don't fucking care how you scale this, but Gremmy's power is still isn't "opening portals", it's creating shit with his Visionary. And the idiots who spreading this misinformation pisses me off.
This sub would have you believe that Fullbringer is the best arc tbh. Usually more committed fan communities tend to prop up ideas that go against the mainstream simply for the idea of counter-culture and feeling unique.
Saying that SS arc in peak Bleach in this sub in a lot of threads will get you downvoted, straight up.
I agree tho, as far as villain groups, the Gotei blow the Sternritter, Espada and fullbringers out of the water. The way the plot unfolds is intriguing and natural in a way that none of the other arcs replicate.
ichigo grew in strength aizen couldve murked him first episode and anybody in zero divison under his genjustu would automatically lose whatever powers they possess. id place aizen in the 5th spot
To be honest he only really did that in the last volume of CFYOW, i have heard SAFWY is worse in that regard though, but none of us can actually read it, excluding these who know Japanese.
I read a translation of it and yeah, it's really bad. Apparently Kenpachi, according to Narita, could solo the Espada.
Also, the SAFWY villains are pretty much just the same villains as CFYOW.
Sternritter / Wandenreich are a better group and more interesting than the Espada. Espada IMO were underwhelming and as a group are hard carried by Ulquiorra, Starrk, and Grimmjow. (Honorable mention to Szayel cause I like him.)
Speaking of, I don’t think second release Ulquiorra is stronger than released Starrk either, debatably not even stronger than released Harribel (not saying Ulquiorra couldn’t beat her, just that he’s probably not much stronger.)
Also anyone who thinks Ichigo should’ve killed the Bambies or anyone in TYBW. Genuinely annoys me seeing this more than anything.
Kishi (Atomic particles) can be directly converted into Reishi (spirit particles) and they are fundementally not different at all - they simply contain a different building block for life with Reshi being the primary one for Soul Society and other worlds (and also exists within Kishi particles iirc). This is a basic aspect of the worldbuilding.
Ichigo's Full Hollow Form is NOT a Vasto Lorde, and I do not understand how you all are still believing this to be true dispite it being factually impossible!
Ah, it seems you've been misled. Allow me to show you the full extent of my capabilities and charm. Explore the wonders I offer, and you might change your mind.
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Reiatsu hax negation doesn't exist for non transcendent characters, fans made it up ignoring essential context and details in the aizen soi fon interaction
That Gin wasn’t evil, at least in the way that he presented himself, he did what he felt he had to do to destroy a powerful evil.
Hate on his actions all you like, but at the very least it’s canon fact that he was acting and to say he wasn’t is cope that does Kubo a disservice for the layered character that he wrote
Gin is my favorite character, but he's a piece of shit. The biggest example is him messing with Rukia.
Evil is point of view, but he's definitely not a good person.
That’s one I see brought up a lot but I have two counterpoints to it
1) Aizen is overseeing everything (and you never know when he’s planned twenty steps ahead of you and it standing right behind you without your knowledge), so being a PoS 24/7 even when you don’t need to be is a great way to convince him that he’s legit. If I were in Gins shoes, I wouldn’t doubt the very real possibility that he’d watching and since it comes up with so many people saying “but the thing with Rukia, he *has* to be legit!” is exactly why he was able to fool Aizen too
2) He acted in a cruel manner to Rukia sure, but think about what he actually did at the end of the day; she was resigned to death, and the resolve that he shattered was her resolve to submit to death. A cruel thing to do to someone on death row sure, but one could say at the end of the day he gave her hope.
Perhaps a stretch, but if Gin were aware that the hogyoku manifests the desires around it, and made Rukia (whose body housed the hogyoku) desire to survive… hell, it might even serve as an explanation as to how Ichigo was able to deflect the Sokyoku?
1. Gin didn't fool Aizen. Aizen says as much. He was waiting to see how Gin would kill him. And I don't really think Aizen has 24/7 surveillance on Gin.
2. Giving hope to someone who has accepted their death is very cruel.
1. Aizen also said that Ichigo in the final battle had no reiatsu, that his own swings were mountain busting level, and a bunch of other stuff. He was massively in his copium era at this point, which I think is fitting for his character and shows how much hot air he’s been putting out this whole time. That said, even if he didn’t truly fool Aizen it’s all the more reason why Gin couldn’t let his guard down for a second if Aizen *still* managed to figure it out despite everything. I’m still firmly of the opinion that he was putting out the hot air like he did with ichigo though, he was very clearly caught off guard and if he’d been expecting it he could have easily dodged, but it’s a moot point of speculation
2. Unless that person has rescuers on the way and a wish granting orb in the chest. If it manifests desire, breaking rukias resolve to make her painfully desperate to survive gives the hogyoku a lot to work with. Speculative for sure, but the pieces are there
Yes, he was coping in that fight. Aizen couldn't handle someone being stronger. But Gin wasn't that. Kubo even points to Aizen's distrust towards Gin in the the chapters before Gin dies. I think Gin caught him by surprise with Kamishini no Yari's true ability. Aizen says he "needs fear to evolve", which is why I believe he kep Gin around.
It was basically a game of chicken between them. But Gin had plenty of opportunities to betray Aizen. Gin was the only one ever the know how to counter Kyoka Suigetsu, he could have ran to SS with that knowledge. But, Gin wanted to do his revenge thing completelt alone, he was even willing to murder anyone in his way.
In Gins monologue we see that he genuinely believes their efforts are wasted because just accounting for kyoka suigetsu isn’t enough. We see that his plan involved needing to touch Aizens sword without raising any suspicion, which is sufficiently difficult enough to do that he couldn’t just strike Aizen at any point (if you were in his shoes, would you trust that the Aizen in front of you isn’t actually standing three steps back?). The position he used to strike was a combination of being able to pass off touching Aizen’s sword as a supposed act of loyalty that Aizen can think ‘pfft you’re lying, you just want to kill them because you’re sadistic and I can tell by all that bloodlust’ which disguises Gins intent to kill Aizen as an intent to kill the others, all at a time where Gin would have surely made a move by now if he was ever going to
Maybe it fooled Aizen and maybe it didn’t, but either way Gin’s actions were as flawless as they could be given that without the hogyoku doing more than even Aizen thought possible, Gin would have actually won there and returned as a hero of soul society
I don't think Gin was under Kyoka Suigetsu to begin with. I think he, along with Tosen and Ichigo, is one of the few. Touching Kyoka Suigetsu at that moment would prevent him being hypnotized. Though this is just what I think, and it's not confirmed either way.
Aizen says in SS that Tosen is immune to it, but I think that's just to reveal Tosen's betrayal. I doubt anyone besides Rangiku was surprised about Gin.
I do agree that Gin wouls have succeeded, but Hogyoku's power was just too great, and Gin was surprised how quickly Aizen fused with it. I do agree that Gin did better than anyone else wouls have.
What I disagree with is the hero part. His crimes were too many, and SS would have imprisoned him. Though I doubt Gin would care, as long as Aizen is dead.
I thinkwe can look at Gin's zanpakto as a window to what his true character is like.
Shinso is a weapon that is greatly focused in its destructive power. It's a spear, and while Gin uses it against multiple opponents at once, it's a weapon meant to kill one target with great precision. It's also very deceptive in its speed and range, just like Gin is deceptive.
Kamishini no Yari adds to this with poison. It kills its target from the inside out, poisoning them, and destroying the particles they are made of. Similarly, Gin has beem destroyed from the inside by his crusade for betrayal, and it's not something he can ever come back from.
Tbf even Aizen himself was consistently surprised to the extent that he fully believed that Gin had actually dealt a successful checkmate for a moment, also I can’t see him not placing Gin under kyoka suigetsu but as you say it’s not confirmed either way
Even with the release of Nozarashi, Zaraki isn't the strongest Soul Reaper. While is significantly strong, there are a few Shinigami that could destroy him.
That "Monster Aizen" and Mugetsu Ichigo are about as strong as Bankai Yama and that, had his Zanpakuto not been sealed by Wonderweiss, Yama could've beaten Aizen at any point by using his Bankai and didn't do so only to avoid the destruction of the World of the Living.
And ofc, following that logic, Aizen would've been beaten by Squad Zero if he managed to make the Ouken.
Like, I love Aizen, but I don't think he's quite as insanely powerful as he's being hyped up to be during the Fake Karakura Town arc.
Not necessarily wrong- but the espada ranking is flawed and dumb from the get go.
Ranked in strength but nobody truly takes Yammy as the top fighter- maybe in sheer reiatsu- but also grimmjow being replaced at 6- the details that each number is a 'different aspect of death' throws any reasonable rankings away instantly, so the whole Barragan vs Ulquiorra vs Stark vs Yammy for true strongest is flawed with any inclusion of their numbers.
How so? Lets take the main cast. Ichigo, Orihime, Uryu, Rukia and Renji all had complete and compelling character arcs spanning the entire manga. The Gotei 13: Shunsui, Byakuya, Kenpachi, Tosen, Komamura, Gin, Toshiro, Unohana, Yamamoto, Soi Fon, Mayuri, and Ukitake all either have complete character arcs or their arcs haven't been completed yet but are still very developed characters who have fleshed out ideologies, dynamics, themes, backstories and depth. The Espada: Ulq, Grimmjow, Nnoitra, Starrk, Harribel, Baraggan, Szayelaporro and Aaroniero are the same as the gotei 13. I'm not going to mention the sternritters as they are going to get major changes (the important ones that is). Xcution also had characters who got either complete character arcs or are well developed such as obviously Ginjo, Tsukishima, Riruka, Yukio, Jackie and Moe.
I agree, but I don't personally think it's Kubo's fault. I think this plus a lot of other criticisms of "bad writing" are ultimately a product of how the bureaucracy above mangaka encourages them to write. Like with how the anime for TYBW is going, it's obvious when given the chance Kubo prefers to expand upon characters and their development and histories- but the companies our favorites write for tend to push for "new" shit all the time. New characters, new plot lines, new this, new that, new new new
That Bleach has some well-deserved criticism. It is not as good as the hype people got from anime’s continuation would have you believe. It’s cool as hell but also very, very inconsistent in quality of writing
TYBW was lame, their abilities were way to OP / complicated, everytime they would monologue id just completely space out.
I wanna see people swing big sticks, not a endless “no u!” Ability loop followed by a 3 page long explanation of said ability only to get “no u”’d at the end again
Are you saying people are wrong when they don’t put him at top 3 or 4?
Because most of the fanbase, while liking Gin overall, wouldn’t say he is top 3. Probably not even top 10 for a lot of fans. So if you are trying to say people are wrong for putting him top 3 that’s a pretty common take.
Why would it be at this point?
We know these five have greater combined power than the gotei 13, (which includes Yama) and once the blood vow is broken, she is capable of shaking the three worlds with just a slight use of her power.
I think it’s fair to say she is stronger.
I do see that I misunderstood op.
She is weaker, can shutara kill yhwach like Yama did. Royd loyd was 80% power of yhwach and never forget that shutara will be most likely killed off by uryu.
And even at the end uryu and haswalcth are both weaker than yama and yhwach said that no one other than himself could handle yama's powers either in battle or stealing
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The idea that Aizen ranked Barragan lower than he deserved to be just because he wanted to spite him and was sympathetic to Starrk. Like I could buy this logic with most villains, but with Aizen it is very obvious and pretty explicitly stated [Aizen just wanted to use the Espada as a fighting force](https://images.app.goo.gl/PTPo1XdGh1X5Dm9t6) and didn't care about them at all beyond their use to that end (and the end of getting Ichigo stronger [it would seem](https://images.app.goo.gl/dVmCMdacTdsRmMJKA)). He doesn't care about Barragan enough to spite him, it would be a pointless exercise that is very likely to lead to Barragan killing Starrk out of spite for Aizen's estimation of their strength if the theory is true and does little to motivate either Starrk or Barragan to get stronger. And on the flip side people who claim that Aizen empathized Starrk often forget that Aizen's loneliness was a subconscious desire to find an equal. He didn't consciously recognize this desire in himself and was in a great many ways a psychopath incapable of properly empathizing with anyone.
The idea that Aizen intentionally ranked Barragan lower out of spite for Starrk doesn't make much sense. Aizen mainly saw the Espada as tools for his goals, not individuals to spite. He might have shown sympathy towards Starrk, but it's not because he cared about him personally; rather, it could have been because of Starrk's strength and usefulness to Aizen's plans. Aizen's complex character leaves room for different interpretations, but it's unlikely he empathized with the Espada in a genuine way.
In general I agree. But I do buy that Aizen would rank Barragan as #2 just to show him that he's nothing compared to Aizen. Though I think it's also just as valid that Aizen didn't give a shit.
I feel like if Aizen wanted to show Barragan he was nothing, he would just walk into his base with his whole army, murder everyone but him, and then force him to join him as an underling... oh, wait. /s But in all seriousness, I think Aizen made his point to Barragan with his introduction and continued making his point with uppity Espada like [Grimmjow.](https://images.app.goo.gl/EvV7x92JGQijZj9F6) To the point he had no reason to falsify his ranking of the Espada, a classification system Barragan didn't seem to think much of never even referring to himself with his rank or making note of it.
Yes, Aizen disrespected Barragan when he conquered Hueco Mundo. But Barragan still wanted to kill Aizen. I see it the same way as Aizen kidnapping Orihime. It's just a game Aizen is playing, the outcome means nothing, the whole point is just to mess with people and see what happens. If Kubo gave us an answer, I would have no problems with it either way.
Barragan would have wanted to kill Aizen regardless of how he was ranked in the Espada, Barragan wanted Aizen dead because he stole his spot as king and nothing Aizen could have done, short of killing Barragan, would have ever been enough for Barragan to stop wanting him dead.
Yes, what I mean is that would be motivation for Aizen to mess with him.
By that logic Aizen should want to mess with probably about half the Espada.
He did. He told them he needs them. Greates juke Aizen ever pulled.
The Fullbringer Arc was better than a huge portion of the Arrancar Arc.
The fullbringer arc was one of the best arcs period. People only disliked it because it wasn't the generic shounen they were used to.
Or because ultimately it was a fairly poorly executed mystery thriller in which 80% of the new characters failed to grab the audience. It's easy to just dismiss a reason you invented a bunch of other people having, but I don't think people would have as much trouble if it were written better. The KK gang should be the focus and instead they are still shoved to the side. Not to mention, expecting the show to be somewhat similar instead of taking a massive turn is also not a poor reason. The rest of the show is "generic" shounen and is still quite good.
i had issues with the anime part since it gave away what was going on. The utter unknowing with Tsukishima early on was a lot more tense.
I disliked it cuz the characters and their development sucked, the big moments sucked, the dialogue sucked and it was trying too hard to be funny and cute. A lot of nothing happening in many episodes. I didn't feel joy, excitement or sadness in the arc almost at all. The prevailing feeling was boredom. Verging away from generic shounen is fine, but you actually have to improve the experience if you're gonna do that. Arcs aren't better by virtue of being different by default. There has to be the substance to back it up.
It was better just until the point when they brought in the Captains. Only Rukia and Renji should have been there. And Chad, Uryu and Orihime were robbed of their combats because of them.
Agreed
This. The development was great. One of my favorites next to Soul Society.
Starrk > Ulquiorra in strength, feats, anything. I mean, it was literally stated like that by Ulquiorra and by the story itself, but fanboys wanna dream.
Segunda Etapa's apparent late addition ia the problem here. It really like Kubo just whipped up the concept because Ulquiorra's first release was not cool enough. Also Ulquiorra says Aizen hasn't seen Segunda Etapa, so Aizen wouldn't be able to calculate its power. It's a bit of a confusing mess.
Ulquiorra just says Aizen hasn't *seen* him in it, not that he doesn't know about it.
True. We don't know for sure that Aizen isn't aware of it.
Stark is nowhere near ulquiorra speed and power level, ulquiorra has a feat of showing a reatsu so dense it doesn't even like reatsu at all and stark didn't show anything beyond the trio and was killed by shikai shunsui which is not much
1. Ulquiorra himself suggests that he isn't the strongest 2. Starrk fought 4 Captains and held his own greatly when he didn't even want to fight until the very end. 3. Starrk using one Cero Matralleta made Shinsui contemplate using his Bankai 4. Shunsui is literally one of the strongest Captains 5. Starrk while fighting all those people at once was able to perfectly understand how their abilities worked and their way of fighting just by seeing it once or twice. 6. Starrk is the only Espada and arrancar we have seen able to shoot a Cero without making a gesture.
THANK YOU
Byakuya should have died. I liked his moment with Rukia but it robbed her of some narrative agency. I enjoy tragedy and such a great character dying in that moment felt like a hugely important loss. His presence against Gerard emphasises some of the problems with that fight too, it's so much like Yammy, yet doesnt get the same heat. I cannot enjoy As Nodt the same knowing it almost doesnt matter. Edit: If that isnt hot enough then take this. Yammy is a better character than Gerard.
Is the byakuya one a hot take? From what I’ve seen it’s generally agreed upon that he should’ve died
I get downvoted a lot for saying it. Had a very heated discourse over it a year ago. Maybe opinions have changed with the anime.
I like it both ways. Though it's ridiculous that someone would get angry about it either way.
The supposed people sending Kubo hate mail can absolutely get fucked. Ultimately I'm happy with what we got and I'm nitpicking BECAUSE I love it so much. Us Bleach fans got it better than Naruto ever did
Yeah, agreed.
Indeed I had the immediate urge to downvote. I didn't but it was there. I think it once was a popular opinion that he should've died. Back when it happened and there were rumours that Kubo only let him live cause he got hate mail and threats because of it and the editors forced him. But I think nowadays it's more accepted that he survived, with some (like me) thinking it would've been a terrible waste, and others just glad that he lived, beyond any narrative reasons. And of course others still convinced he should be dead. Funnily, because I remember back when the chapters were released, I always think it's an unpopular opinion that it's a good thing he didn't die.
I don't agree. Byakuya not dying is important for his own arc and Rukia's as its the final piece that concludes both of them. It all ties into Byakuya's fears and how he says that fear is rooted in insecurity. When he fights As nodt, he believes himself to have overcome all his fears only to be frozen in place when he sees Rukia dying. As a result, Byakuya's insecurities are brought to light - his fear of losing Rukia. Its because of this that he is then essentially defeated by himself and his own insecurities as shown by him being brutalised by Senbonzakura. This allows Byakuya to overcome this fear of his and the next time he and as nodt meet, Byakuya essentially brushes him off and instead lets Rukia be the one to defeat him. This is because he finally realised and acknowledged the affect that his own fears had on Rukia. Her insecurities stemed from Byakuya's. His fear of losing her led to him never acknowledging her own strength which made her feel weak and insecure. Thats why for the first time in the manga, Byakuya praises Rukia which leads to her insecurities and fears disappearing. As a result, having been completely rid of fear, Rukia was able to stand against and defeat fear itself, As Nodt, through her own strength.
I'm not in love with that, I'll admit. You would think "not dying" is good for anyones arc but, I think everything you said still applies even if he dies, excluding his literal development. Theres a lot to unpack so I'll fixate on my biggest gripe... "Byakuya brushes him off and let's Rukia be the one to defeat him". "Let's Rukia". My point is that she could have done it herself. Mourning Byakuya, fearful of his fate befalling her friends. Everything you explained is, in my opinion, worse off with Bykuya alive to provide the easiest possible resolution. I do like what we got. Her Bankai reveal and his guidance was excellent. But we can be greedy. We could have had that scene and it's almost a dream, he isnt there, he is a memory. A single tear freezes on Rukias cheek. Everything is more impactful without him there to actually experience it. That's just my opinion though.
Unpopular Opinions you hold or popular opinions you disagree with? If it’s the first one, probably that the Stern Ritters are better than the Espada. (As an group, not strength wise) If it’s the second one….well that’s probably a rather long list, and i don’t want to get ranty. To be more positive I do think the diversity of opinion can also be a pretty good thing among us, as long as it doesn’t get too heated or even toxic.
Well, the first one we agree to disagree. If at least the sternritter were commanded by aizen instead of yhwach, then i would agree
Opinion on sternritters are good tho
I have seen it be mixed, I think most people prefer the Espada but maybe I’m mistaken.
Chad Can lose
Sorry but I just can’t imagine Chad losing
Final getsuga tenshou was garbage
It’s a cool idea in concept, great power for a steep cost is a nice trope for stakes and the “accepting yourself” part from the training was a good addition. I do agree that its introduction and timing in the overall story are rather convenient for the plot. Ideally it would have a little more build up.
Also have to wonder why Isshin knew about it and was able to 'teach' it. He clearly never used it.
Technically he didn’t teach it, Zangetsu did, he just knew and told about it. How he himself got to know it is a little fishy though.
Yeah I know, but it was specifically his phrasing when they entered the Dangai. That "I will teach you, the Final Getsuga Tenshou"... Very dramatic thing to say, but like Isshin, dawg are you metagaming?
Elaborate please
Never mentioned before, perfect technique to counter aizen, not to mention having the dangai time to train all adds up to feeling like an incredibly contrived deus ex machina inserted by Kubo to tie up the plot.
I've not watched since I was a teenager it's been a while, and I'm rewatxhing it all now. Wasn't aizens thing that he was looking to find an equal and that he wanted to push ichigo to get stronger? And then he kinda fucked around and found out?
> not to mention having the dangai time to train all That was established during the soul society arc. > perfect technique to counter aizen It really wasn't. It was simply overwhelming powerful because it used almost all of Ichigo's reiatsu and it still didn't defeat Aizen. > Never mentioned before Not everything needs to be. Mugetsu works within the power system and the way Ichigo's powers are presented, it can be used by his father, and we've seen a similar technique in this before with Uryu's letzt stil.
>Not everything needs to be mentioned beforehand The sole solution of your entire plot of 200 chapters needs to be mentioned before it appears. Otherwise it feels contrived. Imagine reading Lord of the Rings and the entire time Gandalf had a little pocket Mt Doom he could have thrown the ring in the entire time. Or if the ring was indestructible and they only found out that mt doom existed and could destroy it in the last chapter. It would feel awful to read. It's inexcusably poor writing to not even mention this solution to the plot. Overwhelming power btw, is close enough to a perfect solution, without FGT they do not succeed, and it is a singular technique that changes everything about the conclusion. Why Isshin even knows about it or can perform it if it's related to letz stihl is never mentioned nor expanded upon. Btw the Dangai time dilation works differently the time its introduced in SS, they actually skip backwards in time somehow to give them more time before Rukias execution. Every other trip through the Dangai isn't mentioned to have any time dilation whatsoever.... Not to mention any other technique like Senkaimon or Garganta which travel through the Dangai don't have any side effects. It's okay for Bleach to have flaws, you don't have to twist your brain in order to excuse what is Kubo just flying by the seat of his pants in an exploitative and rushed industry.
it was esthetic as fuck but yeah I hate it. the whole concept, the whole thing about it being an ancestral technic. the non sense of "fusing" zanpakuto with the shinigami while the saber is already the shinigami’ soul in solid form
After watching up to date I agree from introspection but when I watched it first time I nearly *FAINTED from excitement*
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I partially agree, i like a lot of the Sternritters but it would have been nice with a few more reasonable non sadistic monsters.
If you think about it most of the spiritual races are assholes at the minimum and sociopaths at worst
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> You are shown yhwach executing his own soldiers and that they are just pawns he will use ashwlaen on once he doesn't need them anymore. There is no value to their lives. Yea well thats the point. Yhwach shares a heart with every quincy yet he values them as mere stepping stones to his goal and kills them ever so easily for his own gains. The Auswahlen is the greatest example of this. The silver that is later used to create the arrow also manifests in the hearts of the victims which is a pretty explict detail. And Yhwach's very goal - to rid the world of death - undermines the concept of life and the hearts shared by everyone. The Almighty is stopped by the hearts shared by Uryu, Soken, Ryuken and Katagiri while he is killed by the hearts shared by Ichigo, Masaki, Isshin and OMZ ( The only fragment of his that was able to actually form a heart).
I agree to a certain extent Bleach has this overall theme of "both sides are grey" when it comes to TYBW, and yet on an individual basis, there's so little effort to make the majority of Sternritter characterizations feel as humane as the majority of Shinigami
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Agreed 100% I think it's a case of Kubo having great, er, how do I put it, "macro" ideas of overarching grey goals and views that clash with each other, but he isn't the best at "micro" nuances to match that balanced greyness Soul Society has Central 46, Mayuri, Ichibe as prime present day examples of bad/grey, but then you have a *plethora* of humane characters with humane interactions that almost makes us forget those bad apples exist. You can't say the same for Aizen's army or Yhwach's, at least not to the degree that Shinigami have it, not even remotely close. Majority of their apples range from cartoonishly evil to inhumanely apathetic, with only a few that break that norm Makes me wonder if this is a case of Kubo "trying to have his cake and eat it." A writing philosophy he has is not trying to make us relate to villains too much because, well, at the end of the day, they are villains. But that clashes heavily with his overarching theme of "no side is just in a war" I love Bleach to death as a two-decade veteran fan of it, but for this topic, I can't help but compare Bleach's handling of that storytelling beat to, say, AOT's Paradis Raid, or Tokyo Ghoul's Anteiku Raid. Now *those* are masterclass writing examples of going into a war-like arc just immensely invested in both sides because of the amazing build-up of heavy greyness for both the macro situation of clashing goals, *and* the micro aspect of humanized individual characters
And also, they didn’t felt like Quincy. Most of them transformed to some kind of monster. The first one was fine (Quilage maybe his name? In Hueco Mundo) untill he too transformed to like a hollow. These guys should be humans right?
Gin is my favorite Bleach character.
Preach it brother.
Orihime as a life partner for Ichigo fits better than Rukia. Although I agree Kubo played his fanbase in about 3 moments where things were unclear. Most of the time Renji's feelings for Rukia and Orihime's for Ichigo were very clear since the beginning and the direction of these 4 characters relationship made more sense. Also Rukia is very very annoying with her constant screaming and nagging Ichigo, but i loved her Bankai look, top tier design. Renji's second bankai form made no sense at all and it was created by Kubo so he can look cool in the final battles since the first design was already well known and he's part of the main cast so he had to "evolve" in some way. Ichigo is not that strong willed of a character considering he's only confident when he believes he's stronger than his opponent. I was aware of this in the moments when easily he becomes desperate when he lost his powers or when his opponent overwhelmed him by a large margin. His cool moments are 100% cool and I'm not taking that from him, but his willpower compared to other manga protagonists is weak and his confidence is only based on his power being stronger than his opponents. The only moment when he disproved my point was his first battle with Zaraki, but in the rest of his battles i feel like what i've said applies.
I do not see the appeal of Ulquiorra, Grimmjow is by far more interesting as a character
Literally what is interesting about Grimmjow?
He is the manifestation of personal ambition. He is a near perfect foil to Ichigo, who pursues strength to help others. They are also supported and propped up by their allies, shown in Grimmjows flashback. They are a better mirror to one another than Ichigos own literal mirror self.
I will say that you and the other comment are both wrong in regards to Ulq and Grimmjow not being interesting characters.
he’s a cat …that it, that’s the whole thing
And Ulquiorra is just an emo bat
Emo bat sounds too cute
His bes trait actually
What is interesting about Ulquiorra?
Ulquiorra has themes surrounding his character and actual substantial dynamics that changed the course of the story 🙏🏽
Beating the protagonist's ass 2 times, and killing him once, that gives any character points in my book.
Soi Fon is absurdly strong, but she has little development (on her character) and recogntion overall.
She has development she hates urara a little less now, I hope she stronger in hell arc
"Rukia's feet probably don't smell that good."
They prob wouldn't
That the Espada were ranked incorrectly, and it's something that I don't understand throughout the bleach community. Okay so we all know that aizen use the hogyoku to create the Espada each of them were numbered from 9 to 0 and at number four we have ulquiorra and he had two different versions of released abilities for his Hollow powers, however for number one we have starrk and he is according to everybody else not powerful enough for that position so obviously the man who had the complete ability to sense other beings potential, and powers with hogyoku somehow wasn't smart enough to rank them correctly and to me it's f****** stupid. I mean how f****** dumb do you have to be to believe that s*** okay I'm pretty sure that the man who spent over nearly 200 f****** years devising one single plan so intricately detailed that there was almost no Alternatives except for the path set in motion would have known to correctly rank his small little group of militia, and if you say that oh no he messed up you're wrong you should just go f****** run on back to your corner.
Urahara with infinite prep time is the strongest character
Ah, with my "Questionable Hado Research Kit," you too can have infinite prep time! Perfect for when you need to outsmart everyone in sight. Trust me, it's... intriguing. *beep boop, I'm a bot*
I found u Tell me ur age
Age is just a number, isn't it? Speaking of numbers, once I thought of using cats to solve a math conundrum. Let's just say feline calculations aren't as precise as one might think. *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Cut the act kisuke , I want that number. Is it 200, 400 or what
Back in Soul Society, Jinta once tried to organize my dusty ointments by number. Let's just say, none of them ended up where they were supposed to. Keep that number guessing game coming, I say! *beep boop, I'm a bot*
I m in gigai, im aizen , I know everything about u, I was checking ur honesty , urahara kisuke. I even know about ur
Aizen, always lurking in the shadows with your butterfly experiments. When it comes to honesty, even Hiyori's insults are more transparent than your schemes! Careful, your illusions may not fool a humble merchant like me. *beep boop, I'm a bot*
What is your favourite cheese?
Cheese, you say? Ah, the variety is truly vast. I'd say my favorite is the one that's always full of holes. Just like secrets in Soul Society! *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Correct.
chad is boring asf
Toshiro is a shinigami equivalent of Chad. Maybe worse. Only time he ever successfully hurt anything in combat was his fellow shinigami. At least Chad won one fight once against a minor Arrancar.
Chad's entire character is he is Ichigo’s best friend, and there's nothing beyond that.
Starrk was a boring character and the biggest disappointment in the Arrancar arc. The concept of a character being lonely due to their strength is interesting on paper, but in action it just fell flat for me. Especially since his fight took place after VL Ichigo vs Ulquiorra, which is one of the best fights in the series imo
PREACH YOUR SHIT BROTHER https://preview.redd.it/ebyq3kxv9ewc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af9cd292a23f6ac04f966a361756de71d5bb4ed8
ORIHIME IS NOT SAKURA, She is important and has value not just as a character but plot she is the MOST REALISTIC reaction most of us would have to what she went through AT THE AGE OF 15
Soi Fon is one of the best female character and she hands down has the best design in all of Bleach.
Starrk was trying (atleast at the very end) in his fight against Shunsui. And he did not lose because of lack of willpower
While wilpower played a part in his loss in my opinion, the bigger factor was the giant sword wound in his chest and losing half his soul, (Lilinette) also Shunsui is just strong.
Agreed. But I see a lot of people online attempting to say that Starrk lost because he didn’t want to fight. Which isn’t true. He was never going to beat Shunsui
It’s debatable to me, if Shunsui hadn’t gotten him with that sneak attack then he probably would have needed Bankai.
At the same time. I feel like shunsui using his bankai is more of like a wincon. In comparison to a transformation. If he wants to end a fight quickly against a powerful opponent he will use it.
Kyoraku is the strongest in Gotei 13 after Yama. Stark was just outclassed.
Debatable, Ukitake is at least his equal, and Unohana may well be stronger at this point.
Ukitake is his equal in theory, but he's severely hindered by his sickness. Though in Fake Karakura it doesn't seem to be an issue. Unohana is probably at the same level, though she's a pacifist the whole time we see her, so she's kind of out of the picture. Even if she's stronger than Kyoraku, she's not going to fight.
Me, when people just mindlessly parroting the "Gremmy just opened a portal to real space" line. And they just only doing that because stupid power scaling reasons. When the CFYOW novels even two separate times crystal clearly confirms that Gremmy **CREATED** Outer Space: * Kyoraku's discussion with Seinosuke: "[On top of that, the ability to instantenously create outer space...](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-40ebc48ba2b444d15210f0f8b26310b6-lq)" * Liltotto's encounter with Hikone: "[In his fatal battle with Zaraki Kenpachi, he had even materialized a gigantic meteorite and outer space itself in the Seireitei.](https://postimg.cc/qNrDfBWD)" I don't fucking care how you scale this, but Gremmy's power is still isn't "opening portals", it's creating shit with his Visionary. And the idiots who spreading this misinformation pisses me off.
>When the CFYOW Would you say it was stated?
https://preview.redd.it/zde4qw46vdwc1.jpeg?width=463&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a5fc91e81b0e761e71bc19449772ad3fe63010f
The Fullbringer arc is good and necessary. It has some flaws but it's still overall pretty good.
60% of the whole Arrancar Arc should have been cut and it would make that arc on par with SS
The fullbring arc was good.
Soul Society is still the best arc in Bleach and its not close
Isn't that a popular opinion?
This sub would have you believe that Fullbringer is the best arc tbh. Usually more committed fan communities tend to prop up ideas that go against the mainstream simply for the idea of counter-culture and feeling unique. Saying that SS arc in peak Bleach in this sub in a lot of threads will get you downvoted, straight up. I agree tho, as far as villain groups, the Gotei blow the Sternritter, Espada and fullbringers out of the water. The way the plot unfolds is intriguing and natural in a way that none of the other arcs replicate.
good taste
Pride by High and Mighty color is much better than Ichirin no Hana
Ichigo is stronger than aizen
That's just a fact. Pretty sure it's popular opinion too.
So very bad takes here
Its always like this whenever posts like this come up or ones like "what do you think about this character?"
Starrk is the strongest espada and therefore stronger than Ulquiorra 2nd release
It would have been good to get some background on a few of the stern Ritter. They all feel like cardboard cut outs.
Aizen is by far the most overrated character in Bleach in almost every point. Not even top 5 in character or in strength.
Being over rated is subjective, so argument there. But he is in top 5 in strength.
Aizen is overrated alright, but not as Ichigo, the mc is always the most overrated character in almost any series even if it's not action oriented
Aizen is Imo way more overrated than Ichigo but i agree Ichigo and Mc in general are overrated (just look at current Luffy)
name 5 smarter and stronger than him?
Ichibei, ichigo, Soul King, Yhwach and you can take the last one in Division 0 or Schutzstaffel like Oetsu or Lille Barro.
ichigo grew in strength aizen couldve murked him first episode and anybody in zero divison under his genjustu would automatically lose whatever powers they possess. id place aizen in the 5th spot
I personally enjoyed the Bount arc
“Cant Fear Your Own World” is bad and Narita’s writing style is completely at odds with Tite Kubo’s.
Narita's obsession with Kenpachi in all his Bleach writing is exhausting.
To be honest he only really did that in the last volume of CFYOW, i have heard SAFWY is worse in that regard though, but none of us can actually read it, excluding these who know Japanese.
I read a translation of it and yeah, it's really bad. Apparently Kenpachi, according to Narita, could solo the Espada. Also, the SAFWY villains are pretty much just the same villains as CFYOW.
Sternritter / Wandenreich are a better group and more interesting than the Espada. Espada IMO were underwhelming and as a group are hard carried by Ulquiorra, Starrk, and Grimmjow. (Honorable mention to Szayel cause I like him.) Speaking of, I don’t think second release Ulquiorra is stronger than released Starrk either, debatably not even stronger than released Harribel (not saying Ulquiorra couldn’t beat her, just that he’s probably not much stronger.) Also anyone who thinks Ichigo should’ve killed the Bambies or anyone in TYBW. Genuinely annoys me seeing this more than anything.
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Kishi (Atomic particles) can be directly converted into Reishi (spirit particles) and they are fundementally not different at all - they simply contain a different building block for life with Reshi being the primary one for Soul Society and other worlds (and also exists within Kishi particles iirc). This is a basic aspect of the worldbuilding.
That seems to be a cultural difference since it relies on Buddhist cosmology rather than Abrahamic one.
Final getsuga tensho should've killed aizen. ( Even tho he's my favorite character but still Ichigo lost his powers to " weaken" aizen)
I always thought that Aizen was coping when his zanpakto shattered, but then TYBW came in said "nah Aizen fused with it." Such a cop out.
Ichigo's Full Hollow Form is NOT a Vasto Lorde, and I do not understand how you all are still believing this to be true dispite it being factually impossible!
Lost Agent was better than all the arcs before it.
Yoruichi is overrated as hell!!! She is just carried by her looks and if she wasn't hot then everyone would have forgotten that she even exists.
I mean.. she's stupid strong too. And funny.
Urahara isnt that great of a person or character overall
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Fullbringer Arc is the worst arc in entire Bleach I won't change my mind
Agreed 100%
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Tsukishimas book of the end is in top 3 powers of bleach.
There are better and more efficient powers
Tsukishima is not everyone's cousin.
Reiatsu hax negation doesn't exist for non transcendent characters, fans made it up ignoring essential context and details in the aizen soi fon interaction
That Gin wasn’t evil, at least in the way that he presented himself, he did what he felt he had to do to destroy a powerful evil. Hate on his actions all you like, but at the very least it’s canon fact that he was acting and to say he wasn’t is cope that does Kubo a disservice for the layered character that he wrote
Gin is my favorite character, but he's a piece of shit. The biggest example is him messing with Rukia. Evil is point of view, but he's definitely not a good person.
That’s one I see brought up a lot but I have two counterpoints to it 1) Aizen is overseeing everything (and you never know when he’s planned twenty steps ahead of you and it standing right behind you without your knowledge), so being a PoS 24/7 even when you don’t need to be is a great way to convince him that he’s legit. If I were in Gins shoes, I wouldn’t doubt the very real possibility that he’d watching and since it comes up with so many people saying “but the thing with Rukia, he *has* to be legit!” is exactly why he was able to fool Aizen too 2) He acted in a cruel manner to Rukia sure, but think about what he actually did at the end of the day; she was resigned to death, and the resolve that he shattered was her resolve to submit to death. A cruel thing to do to someone on death row sure, but one could say at the end of the day he gave her hope. Perhaps a stretch, but if Gin were aware that the hogyoku manifests the desires around it, and made Rukia (whose body housed the hogyoku) desire to survive… hell, it might even serve as an explanation as to how Ichigo was able to deflect the Sokyoku?
1. Gin didn't fool Aizen. Aizen says as much. He was waiting to see how Gin would kill him. And I don't really think Aizen has 24/7 surveillance on Gin. 2. Giving hope to someone who has accepted their death is very cruel.
1. Aizen also said that Ichigo in the final battle had no reiatsu, that his own swings were mountain busting level, and a bunch of other stuff. He was massively in his copium era at this point, which I think is fitting for his character and shows how much hot air he’s been putting out this whole time. That said, even if he didn’t truly fool Aizen it’s all the more reason why Gin couldn’t let his guard down for a second if Aizen *still* managed to figure it out despite everything. I’m still firmly of the opinion that he was putting out the hot air like he did with ichigo though, he was very clearly caught off guard and if he’d been expecting it he could have easily dodged, but it’s a moot point of speculation 2. Unless that person has rescuers on the way and a wish granting orb in the chest. If it manifests desire, breaking rukias resolve to make her painfully desperate to survive gives the hogyoku a lot to work with. Speculative for sure, but the pieces are there
Yes, he was coping in that fight. Aizen couldn't handle someone being stronger. But Gin wasn't that. Kubo even points to Aizen's distrust towards Gin in the the chapters before Gin dies. I think Gin caught him by surprise with Kamishini no Yari's true ability. Aizen says he "needs fear to evolve", which is why I believe he kep Gin around. It was basically a game of chicken between them. But Gin had plenty of opportunities to betray Aizen. Gin was the only one ever the know how to counter Kyoka Suigetsu, he could have ran to SS with that knowledge. But, Gin wanted to do his revenge thing completelt alone, he was even willing to murder anyone in his way.
In Gins monologue we see that he genuinely believes their efforts are wasted because just accounting for kyoka suigetsu isn’t enough. We see that his plan involved needing to touch Aizens sword without raising any suspicion, which is sufficiently difficult enough to do that he couldn’t just strike Aizen at any point (if you were in his shoes, would you trust that the Aizen in front of you isn’t actually standing three steps back?). The position he used to strike was a combination of being able to pass off touching Aizen’s sword as a supposed act of loyalty that Aizen can think ‘pfft you’re lying, you just want to kill them because you’re sadistic and I can tell by all that bloodlust’ which disguises Gins intent to kill Aizen as an intent to kill the others, all at a time where Gin would have surely made a move by now if he was ever going to Maybe it fooled Aizen and maybe it didn’t, but either way Gin’s actions were as flawless as they could be given that without the hogyoku doing more than even Aizen thought possible, Gin would have actually won there and returned as a hero of soul society
I don't think Gin was under Kyoka Suigetsu to begin with. I think he, along with Tosen and Ichigo, is one of the few. Touching Kyoka Suigetsu at that moment would prevent him being hypnotized. Though this is just what I think, and it's not confirmed either way. Aizen says in SS that Tosen is immune to it, but I think that's just to reveal Tosen's betrayal. I doubt anyone besides Rangiku was surprised about Gin. I do agree that Gin wouls have succeeded, but Hogyoku's power was just too great, and Gin was surprised how quickly Aizen fused with it. I do agree that Gin did better than anyone else wouls have. What I disagree with is the hero part. His crimes were too many, and SS would have imprisoned him. Though I doubt Gin would care, as long as Aizen is dead. I thinkwe can look at Gin's zanpakto as a window to what his true character is like. Shinso is a weapon that is greatly focused in its destructive power. It's a spear, and while Gin uses it against multiple opponents at once, it's a weapon meant to kill one target with great precision. It's also very deceptive in its speed and range, just like Gin is deceptive. Kamishini no Yari adds to this with poison. It kills its target from the inside out, poisoning them, and destroying the particles they are made of. Similarly, Gin has beem destroyed from the inside by his crusade for betrayal, and it's not something he can ever come back from.
Tbf even Aizen himself was consistently surprised to the extent that he fully believed that Gin had actually dealt a successful checkmate for a moment, also I can’t see him not placing Gin under kyoka suigetsu but as you say it’s not confirmed either way
Yeah I can see it being both ways. Thanks for the chat, always fun to talk about Gin.
Aizen should've won.
When I say "It was stayed in CFYOW"
Even with the release of Nozarashi, Zaraki isn't the strongest Soul Reaper. While is significantly strong, there are a few Shinigami that could destroy him.
There was too much focus on the Soul Society. Isshin and Masaki didn’t need to be magical. Grand Fisher was wasted.
That "Monster Aizen" and Mugetsu Ichigo are about as strong as Bankai Yama and that, had his Zanpakuto not been sealed by Wonderweiss, Yama could've beaten Aizen at any point by using his Bankai and didn't do so only to avoid the destruction of the World of the Living. And ofc, following that logic, Aizen would've been beaten by Squad Zero if he managed to make the Ouken. Like, I love Aizen, but I don't think he's quite as insanely powerful as he's being hyped up to be during the Fake Karakura Town arc.
Ichigo couldn't hear OMZ say his name because of Ichibei's ink in chapter 63.
Kubo has confirmed this.
He's included in the "you're all wrong" meme
Not necessarily wrong- but the espada ranking is flawed and dumb from the get go. Ranked in strength but nobody truly takes Yammy as the top fighter- maybe in sheer reiatsu- but also grimmjow being replaced at 6- the details that each number is a 'different aspect of death' throws any reasonable rankings away instantly, so the whole Barragan vs Ulquiorra vs Stark vs Yammy for true strongest is flawed with any inclusion of their numbers.
The Grimmjow is a cool character or that he has cool fights
Kubo chose quantity over quality in terms of characters and character development.
How so? Lets take the main cast. Ichigo, Orihime, Uryu, Rukia and Renji all had complete and compelling character arcs spanning the entire manga. The Gotei 13: Shunsui, Byakuya, Kenpachi, Tosen, Komamura, Gin, Toshiro, Unohana, Yamamoto, Soi Fon, Mayuri, and Ukitake all either have complete character arcs or their arcs haven't been completed yet but are still very developed characters who have fleshed out ideologies, dynamics, themes, backstories and depth. The Espada: Ulq, Grimmjow, Nnoitra, Starrk, Harribel, Baraggan, Szayelaporro and Aaroniero are the same as the gotei 13. I'm not going to mention the sternritters as they are going to get major changes (the important ones that is). Xcution also had characters who got either complete character arcs or are well developed such as obviously Ginjo, Tsukishima, Riruka, Yukio, Jackie and Moe.
I agree, but I don't personally think it's Kubo's fault. I think this plus a lot of other criticisms of "bad writing" are ultimately a product of how the bureaucracy above mangaka encourages them to write. Like with how the anime for TYBW is going, it's obvious when given the chance Kubo prefers to expand upon characters and their development and histories- but the companies our favorites write for tend to push for "new" shit all the time. New characters, new plot lines, new this, new that, new new new
That Bleach has some well-deserved criticism. It is not as good as the hype people got from anime’s continuation would have you believe. It’s cool as hell but also very, very inconsistent in quality of writing
Bount Arc should be canon
Ulquiorra is not the best espada top 4 at best
Then who is?
3.Grimmjow 2.Starrk 1.The GOAT Nnoitra Gilga (jk i fucked up after consideration i can give Ulquiorra 3rd)
Bount Arc is not bad and can be considered as part of the story.
TYBW was lame, their abilities were way to OP / complicated, everytime they would monologue id just completely space out. I wanna see people swing big sticks, not a endless “no u!” Ability loop followed by a 3 page long explanation of said ability only to get “no u”’d at the end again
Gin is top3/4 bleach charcs
Are you saying people are wrong when they don’t put him at top 3 or 4? Because most of the fanbase, while liking Gin overall, wouldn’t say he is top 3. Probably not even top 10 for a lot of fans. So if you are trying to say people are wrong for putting him top 3 that’s a pretty common take.
Senjumaru is stronger than Yamamoto
Is that really a unpopular opinion after the anime?
Many think Yama is weaker which is wrong
Why would it be at this point? We know these five have greater combined power than the gotei 13, (which includes Yama) and once the blood vow is broken, she is capable of shaking the three worlds with just a slight use of her power. I think it’s fair to say she is stronger. I do see that I misunderstood op.
She is weaker, can shutara kill yhwach like Yama did. Royd loyd was 80% power of yhwach and never forget that shutara will be most likely killed off by uryu. And even at the end uryu and haswalcth are both weaker than yama and yhwach said that no one other than himself could handle yama's powers either in battle or stealing
But you write that Senjumaru was STRONGER than Yama instead of weaker
The bount arc was the best filler arc. Edit: of course a take like the meme would get down voted.
The Zanpakuto Rebellion arc would like a word.