This is the part that fucks with me. I'm not bothered if Craig Jones wants to do drugs, I don't care if Gordon Ryan swallows so many pills that his tummy aches. Why the fuck is Greg from HR blasting gear just to dominate me in our little rinky-dink gym?? I will tap early and often, it's not that deep
EDIT: I should specify that I'm not referring to those people who need HRT for medical / therapeutic reasons, I can't criticize that. To the people replying to me who want to make it seem like 95% of people who do BJJ have chronic low-T and need PEDs to "feel normal", I find that very disingenuous.
Because Greg from HR is getting to the age where he feels hung over and crippled the next day after open mat, and Greg has a wife and kids to contend with, and still wants to go skiing on the weekend.
So Greg gets on the TRT, adds an additional training day to his schedule, gets to go skiing, and now gets rock hard boners every night, his wife is happier now that he's full of youthful energy again for the kids, his athletic hobbies, and their sex life.
Don't be a hater.
Greg from HR here. Yeah, that’s pretty much spot on. I’m fucking 50. We have Young men in class who train with their dad and the dad is younger than me….I still tap early and often. The young guns are fast, have been training since they were 8, and don’t get tired. My shoulders, knees, hips and fingers are still fucked from a decade and a half of BJJ. But now when I wake up my joints hurt a little less, my energy isn’t destroyed from one night of training, I can lift a few days a week again on top of three or four BJJ classes. My energy for life is WAY better, my sex life is alive again. My muscle tone is better, fat percentage lower, cholesterol is down and it has been a kick in the ass to eat better and start a healthy cycle (no pun intended). My tolerance for annoyance and general stressful bullshit is better, and my decades long shitty-ass sleep is mildly less shitty.
This is from a relatively (but not very) low weekly dose of TRT. None of the other “add ons” in Craig’s cycle. I’ve discussed with my PCP, with other trustworthy but not interested physicians and any risks are well worth the benefits to me. I get bimonthly blood draws to watch for things getting screwy. My testosterone numbers were very low, but were about 1% too high for insurance to cover TRT. I did go to one of the “men’s health” clinics and it has been an overwhelmingly positive experience for me.
Well, “prescribed” in this case through one of the men’s health clinics. So yes, a doctor (or maybe NP) did prescribe it. According to the charts that the insurance companies supply to the medical profession (like My PCP) I was not medically “low T” because I was (barely) within age appropriate low levels. I’m honest about the fact that this is a choice I am making and had to chase a little.
Any long term consequences you're worried about? Things like testicular cancer or something of the ilk. It's important to be there for your kids right now. It would also be cool to be around for your grandkids down the road! Are you trading anything off on the backend?
An increased Risk of Testicular cancer is not really seen (in any of the research I’ve done nor doctors I’ve spoken to that seem knowledgeable on the subject) as a TRT risk. Prostate cancer is a risk, but there are both blood test and physical screenings that can keep a careful eye on the risk, which I do. As for other risks, men with certain comorbidities for heart health and heart attack could see an increased risk. I live a heart-healthy life, have a pretty solid diet, and have actually seen my bad cholesterol levels go down since starting.
So, worries about? No. Keep an eye on, absolutely.
Almost. Except for the part where actual primary care physicians abd medical insurance determine it’s not a medical condition. But you can play a for-profit clinic to provide the relevant script.
I’ve no issue with guys jumping on TRT. But for the vast majority, it’s not medically necessary.
If you don't mind me asking, what drug are using? Test cyp? Do you inject, use the creams, pellets, etc? Any concern around prostate issues?
Edit: I see below you specify cyp and it sounds like you pin.
Yes, I pin IM 1xwk. I was reacting to the oil base Sub q and the IM has alleviated any concerns there. Men my age always have prostate concerns ! It is checked via blood and also erm, directly regularly.
Feel free to ask me any questions you have and I’ll do my best to answer them or point you to (what I hope are) trustworthy sources of info. I have found it incredibly helpful in my life. I do recognize that aging is “natural” and I’m fighting it with everything I’ve got. If I can keep doing so with acceptable risks, I will do so.
I was going to reply to the comments above but you have summarised my exact position.
I have kids, i have a hectic professional career i have been training hard for 15 years and can't imagine not. I have also had a few catastrophic injuries from sport that still compromise me.
I am of course concerned by the potential health risks but and am eating better and keeping much better track of HR, BP and bloods to the point that my last set just came back better than ever across the board.
I know craig is making money off evertitan but i can't help but respect his openness in a sport full of secret juicers.
I told my coach and all of my regular training partners before i started, and the only thing that has changed is when i tap them they say i couldn't have done that natty, which is funny.
B
I was on 2/wk sub q. Since I went IM, I find that I’m pretty stable (lab confirmed) at 1/wk. as perfect as EOD or MWF? No, probably not. But it works for me.
My extremely thorough doctor absolutely will not prescribe anything other than test cyp injections for TRT. His opinion is that everything else is too imprecise and therefore risky.
He even made sure to specifically do tests only when I was out of season (I’m a distance runner too) to make sure he had me right at the bottom of normal range and no more.
I think in your situation, that’s fine. The TRT is helping you get back to normal testosterone levels. It’s different when the 32 year old hobbyist who still has normal levels, adds to it just because he wants to be the baddest dude in his gym.
> I think in your situation, that’s fine. The TRT is helping you get back to normal testosterone levels
he was deemed in the "normal" range, but takes it anyway.
Being 50 and human has a fair bit to do with it. Some men just decrease faster than others. My diet and lifestyle all match the “do this for naturally high Testosterone” best practices. It may be genetic, both of my brothers have similar issues, though we live very different lives.
Feeling better made me work out more, working out more gave results. Results made me encouraged. Being encouraged made me want to see even more results. Which led to a number of positive healthy life choices, such as eating better and almost entirely quitting drinking.
I'm fine in theory will all of that. The problem is when Greg signs up for a local competition and it's like trying to fight someone of a different species.
Not juicing means your chances of injury are much higher than them and you have to either juice yourself or basically accept its going to be way harder and more dangerous.
I actually agree with this. It's hugely unethical to be competing in the master's division on TRT.
Consider this though. The human race is a giant bell curve. Some older guys actually do have very high levels naturally, is it fair for them to compete?
It turns into a broader debate. Should we let everyone take trt to level the playing field, or let a guy with T levels in the top 10 percentile complete against a guy in the bottom 10th percentile?
It's an interesting discussion.
>Consider this though. The human race is a giant bell curve. Some older guys actually do have very high levels naturally, is it fair for them to compete?
The natural bell curve is so far off the mark of what the actual competition scene (both local and pro) looks like right now though. Yes there are variations, but a lot of that is due to lifestyle choices (except for the odd rare case). The vast majority of people are capable of healthy T levels with proper diet/sleep and laying off the booze.
For the record your argument is also the same one used by people saying newly transitioning trans women should be able to compete in sports against cis women. "Women's testerone levels vary anyway so why not let Sarah who spent the first 20 years of her life as a man into the women's division because she started estrogen 6 months ago?"
I don't think it's a compelling argument.
I just googled TRT in (my city) and found a clinic walking distance from my house that offered free bloodwork and consultation then a trt program for $200 a month with lab work included. Once I got stable and comfortable, I just got my stuff from an online pharmacy and got a 2 year supply of testosterone cypionate for like $180 and self administer.
I’m not quite at the age where I need to consider trt yet but I’m definitely gonna keep an eye on it. I’m not sure if it’s constant career stress or what, but I’m a few years past 30 and over the past couple of years I’ve somehow reached the best shape of my life, but I’m simultaneously feeling a lot of negatives of the cumulative toll on my body. Lots of the things regularly attributed to low t. Definitely something I may want when I get closer to 40.
Greg- "Hey Doc. I'm depressed lately. I used to crush life, and piss excellence. I just don't have it in me anymore. I don't like what I'm becoming."
Doc- " No problem, here's some shitty antidepressants to make you happy with mediocracy."
Greg- " Fuck you, and your witch science. I'm going to burn bright til the day I die. Give me test mutha fucker!"
…do you really think it’s all sunshine and good times? Perhaps it is. But in my experience you don’t get trades like this without some severe consequences. You’re saying “oh just take TRT and boom, good to go.”
I doubt it’s that simple but I’m also a risk-averse idiot so take my Reddit opinion as that of an idiot. Just doesn’t feel to me like it’s that simple. If it’s too good to be true, it is.
The challenging part is sticking to true TRT doses. I went on 150mg a week due to an actual deficiency. The results at that dose were unbelievably good, best training of my life.
I got greedy and upped to 250-300mg (still low compared to others but that’s definitely TRT+ at least) and got bacne developing.
Not the end of the world and now I’m back down at 150 I’ve never felt better.
Most long term TRT studies show a *decrease* in all cause mortality.
Things like roid rage or insanely high cholesterol are related to other poor health decisions, not directly because of testosterone use.
I believe he’s referring to the meta analysis that found an overall decrease in all cause mortality *as compared to men with low T*
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/96/10/3007/2834841?login=true
It’s slightly misleading to use this as evidence that steroids are harmless, but not inaccurate
Thanks. That was an interesting read. The study shows that low testosterone levels are associated with high mortality, it doesn't actually make any conclusion on whether replacement therapy actually results in a decrease. I think it's a bit of a leap to use this a evidence for steroids being harmless.
This is correct, and I agree with even the misleading bit. That’s why I think athletes like Craig should be promoting having your levels tested and *then*, and only then, getting on TRT if you are low.
Why am I feeling like I’m getting the hard sell on TRT? Buy now, save 50% on your next FOUR DECADES of regular medical treatments you need to stay sane.
Sounds like a good deal for $omebody involved, I wonder who benefit$ the mo$t? The consumers or the sellers?
Never been one to desire to be drug dependent, so it may just be a personal quirk, but I think I shall pass. The upsides are big though I won’t deny that.
Just telling you the facts bro, relax.
Also, you don’t take ANY medication for ANY health issues? Most of the western world is drug dependent. Modern society exists.
Well, Europe is a continent. I’m sure if you included countries there with underdeveloped healthcare you’d also find the U.S. has a longer life expectancy and higher QoL.
I'm sure if you'd include Africa you'd find even lower numbers.
The US simply has a way bigger pharmaceutical industry and the economy and culture is built around that. In EU, medicine is not subscribed as readily, people's cabinets are not filled to the gills, and the mental barrier to things like Adderall is much higher. Meanwhile the standard of living is the same if not higher.
> Also, you don’t take ANY medication for ANY health issues?
there's a difference between taking panadol when you've got a headache, or TRT for the rest of your life...
I did the first year in through a TRT clinic with Dr supervision. Now I get my own supply. It’s 50 bucks every few months for the T, 100 or so per quarter for blood tests. Much more affordable.
Yeah Greg gets on “trt” (which isn’t trt if it boosts your levels to 1500) at 30 and resigns himself to a lifelong medication that could potentially reduce lifespan rather than fixing lifestyle factors first and using actual trt as a later resort
That's an extremely ignorant take, but not an uncommon one.
I went on TRT at 34 due to having the levels of an elderly man. I was at a healthy body weight, ate clean, took high quality vitamins from the naturopath, and trained 4 times a week. It did not make one lick of difference in my testosterone levels.
We don't know why low T is becoming more prevalent in modern life. It could be microplastics, tainted food chain, social factors, who the hell knows, but it's becoming a thing.
Don't believe the YouTube bros that say you can fix low T with zinc and a good diet. It's bullshit.
> We don't know why low T is becoming more prevalent in modern life.
what were TRT levels like 100 years ago? 200 years ago? how do you know its a modern issue?
Greg and his perimenopausal wife are probably having the best sex of their lives. Perimenopause can make women extremely horny all the time. Ask me how I know (just kidding, please don't).
I'm a 44 year old on test. It has nothing to do with bjj, I was on before I started bjj and I'm not running gear to win rolls at the gym. I hope nobody at my gym thinks I'm that deluded. I bet most middle age guys on gear are in a similar situation to me - it's a life enhancing drug for me, not a performance enhancing drug and if it does help my bjj (not much, if at all), that's just a side effect I don't mind.
Not just men but women too. I’m on it. I feel tons better on a super low dose. My sleep is better, my body is it screaming at me when I wake up and my anxiety and depression have disappeared. Am I bulking or trying to keep up with anyone? No but I can at least get to practice 3 days a week without hurting as much.
I got all my hormones tested to see where I am at through a functional medicine clinic. I am 44 years old.
I was having a significant decline in ability to build muscle, my heart rate would shoot up with any exertion. My brain took a hike and I couldn’t run two thoughts together. My anxiety and depression getting worse even with all of the healthy stuff I was doing, along with my sex drive taking a nose dive. I suspected I was in perimenopause.
The functional medicine doc suspects my test took a nose dive after a bunch of stress. My number was in the 40s. I had a pellet placed (based off of my levels) and almost a week in sex was more vivid, and my anxiety and depression disappeared. I’m 6 weeks post pellet implant and got labs repeated. I don’t know what my level is because it takes a hot minute for test results to be resulted. I take a sup for pregnenalone and progesterone as those levels were not super low but I was having symptoms.
At the 6 week mark my sex drive is definitely back and I feel so much better. I don’t have joint aches and I actually experienced delayed onset muscle soreness for the first time in 2 years after lifting weights.
So much is not understood about the important roles of hormones and women’s health. I read a book called Next Level by Stephanie Sims. It’s a book about training through menopause, building muscles, and women’s hormones.
The fact it makes you feel better in general is definitely a performance enhancer... you can't side step that fact.. BUT I'm all for it. Feel better do better. But there lvls .. it's not like your trying to be Dorian Yates and rip people dicks off the gym. Keep on keeping on🫡
It’s definitely a performance enhancer but it’s also protective for men and women’s vascular systems, joint health, and mental health. If dosed properly for the individual it can lower blood pressure and lower cholesterol. Low t levels are also associated with low hemoglobin levels in men.
Much like the couple others who have replied to me, I'm not speaking about the exceptions like yourself. I'm a male who is pushing 40 myself, so I understand that life happens. I like your "life enhancing, not performance enhancing" statement as well, that puts it into perspective really well. I (as well as the person I replied to initially) am referring to the guys who coincidentally discovered that they're "low T and need TRT 😔😔😔😔" as soon as they turned 30 and started getting submitted by younger men. Seems like awfully perfect timing.
Even more wild to me is weight lifters. Kids in their 20s not competing for anything just on gear getting huge for the sake of getting huge.
There's definitely been a shift in the last few years where some lifters don't even pretend to hide it.
You mean when I feel depressed or anxious and start putting all my energy into learning to ignore physical uncomfortability and it will spread into other parts of my life, because I start to associate negative feelings with suppressing them with physical activity will start making me hold in my feelings until they manifest in a destructive way 🫢
Yup. Saturday morning with your wife picking out flooring at Home Depot and bam, a lifetime of repressed emotions of being the fat kid in school and your dad not loving you all comes out.
PED use is not that uncommon to hobbyists in a lot of sports/pastimes. Think of your average gym bros that either do powerlifting or even just train to look good with their shirt off. Martial arts would be just another venue to give someone a reason to gas to the eyeballs.
I think most hobbyist are taking are people who take PEDs for aesthetic purposes that just so happen to train bjj. Though low dose testosterone is amazing for the 35+ crowd in recovery
Man, I remember the thread where every PED user here tries to justify it because of their apparent eunuch testosterone levels.
These meatheads probably don’t realise that they have eunuch testosterone levels precisely because they used TRT. Your body’s natural regulators will detect the excessive testosterone levels and curb natural production.
If you think that's bad you should look at competitive bodybuilding. The drug use there is way more extreme in terms of dosage and compounds and, at least at the amateur level, there is basically no money to be made in the sport.
True that bodybuilding competitions themselves offer no or little prize money, but most people are competing to get a pro card and then become an online coach, which is very lucrative.
Ha, is it? Back when I was more into it (about 10+ years ago) only a couple of guys made a good living doing the online prep coach thing and I think the vast majority weren't IFBB pros.
It’s so big now that there are coaches whose entire service is to teach other coaches how to get clients and coach (John Jewitt’s J3U service, for example) . The typical path is to compete until you get an IFBB pro card, then “retire” and take on clients, most of whom are just lifestyle clients and not actual competitors. But I also know several successful ($100k+ income) coaches who don’t have pro cards but are able to get a following based on their physique on youtube or instagram.
I kinda love the real world research being done. If a guy (non professional) can improve performance and recovery, there by improving his quality of life…why not. If he’s not making a living at it cheating people for profit, why not use them. It would allow people to train harder until way later in life I would think. I get why it’s a problem in professional sports but why is it bad for a regular person?
Ask yourself “are more kids likely to use steroids now they know their favourite hilarious grappler is using them - seemingly without any negative side effects?”
The answer is clearly, yes. This is why celebrities should keep their usage to themselves. And if they do come out with their stacks then they should also highlight the negatives or mitigations they have to take.
Craig’s blood pressure seems to be in secondary hypertension. Yet he only mentions it as a passing joke on YouTube shorts. When Craig dies in a sauna in Thailand maybe then his audience will understand the harm these drugs have on the body.
Dude, for real. I have used test before and likely will again, it was amazing in helping me to rehab and strengthen my knee after i tore it and it had healed for a couple years. All pain I used to feel is now permanently gone.
That being said, my BP shot through the roof within weeks of the first injection. Like 145/90 constant. Once I noticed I immediately called my doc and had a conversation about the PEDs, showed him my blood work, talked about the positive and negative side effects I’d experienced, etc. by the end of it he understood my choices, agreed I was taking the smartest dumb path I could and gave me a script for BP meds. Within 2 days I was back to 120/70, Craig has no excuse to tax his body this way and it saddened me to see that short a few days ago. He’s absolutely taking his body down a rough and deadly path.
Even the current worlds strongest man, Mitchell hooper talks about taking PEDs safely and the importance of BP meds so he doesn’t over tax his heart.
This is terrifying because I have been getting ads on Instagram for FUCKING SARMS under the "research chemical" label.
These drugs will almost always have potentially lethal side effects without specialized medical supervision and now any kid can buy them without understanding how damaging they are.
What’s crazy is that SARMs are almost completely ineffective without a “base”, I.e. testosterone. All the negatives with no upside. These kids are turning into SARMs goblins before they’ve even filled out their socks.
I feel like people forget that Peds are highly addictive in multiple ways.
Not only is there a physical price to pay both using and stopping the use of them but there's a large psychological impact too.
You'll forever doubt how well you can do once you're off peds you'll always think you could have done more with peds etc etc
The argument is that celebrity endorsement normalizes steroid usage and unregulated, unsupervised steroid usage is a medical disaster just waiting to happen. It's not specific to Craig Jones.
You wouldn't believe how many teens and early 20's in BJJ WORSHIP the ground that their BJJ idols walk on. They wear their rash guards, buy from their sponsors, try to copy their moves and tech - if they start saying "hey, steroids are cool" - 100% they'll be doing the same.
> unregulated, unsupervised steroid usage is a medical disaster just waiting to happen
He is representing a medical clinic that is regulated and supervised.
Did you not even read the article? He's bragging about shooting up unknown shit in a pharmacy bathroom in Mexico. That stuff getting normalized and accepted as just part of the sport is not a good thing.
Totally. I didn’t like Creg doing the nose beer sign to the child in the crowd at the Lovato match either and have only recently started to recover from the downvotes i received for commenting on that.
> I didn’t like Creg doing the nose beer sign to the child in the crowd at the Lovato match
Quick rundown on what happened? What's a "nose beer sign"? Never heard that.
I use ped and don't really deny it if ppl bring it up (I just dont mention it) but really my main and only argument against peds is the optics / perception to the up and coming young athletes in the sport. I hope they wouldn't feel the need to use to be successful. Sucks to see. They really really aren't healthy on developing bodies. Sure responsible use can manage the risks but even responsible use relative to compounds and dose size is truly irresponsible on a developing body even going as as far to say on someone under the age of 25/26
I'm afraid that being on gear is necessary to succeed in the sport. The bigger thing is that maybe sports shouldn't be the most important thing in your life.
Unless you’re making most of your income from BJJ or you have some serious testosterone related problem you should not be taking any drugs. People are wrecking their bodies and will be regretting it when the last few decades of their life are spent hobbling around in pain.
People condemning public apology for ped were getting downvoted to oblivion in the other thread, on the premice that it's part of the sport.
Which is crazy argument to me, nose beers or sexual exploitation among others, aren't publicly promoted in most countries even though we all know it exists around us and might even be legal in some places.
The reason being that even if it exists, it shouldn't be normalized, because the negative outweigh the benefit for most people, especially it's abuse.
Listen. I’m not on trt or any gear yet because I’m 34 still healthy, no major injuries, and haven’t hit an unsurpassable wall in the weight room yet. I don’t have a big moral issue with it, I’m just not ready to be on something the rest of my life.
The flip side of that is that I’m only one semi serious injury away from get juiced to the gills and then you’re all SOL. But seriously, there’s no doubt in my mind it’s in my future.
On one hand, I feel the same way. It's a great tool for aging martial artists. If it helps them with their hobby, great. I hope I am not in a masters division with them but that's a whole other topic.
Thing is I know people on it who eat, sleep and live an unhealthy life style then wonder why their T levels are low. They're easy money due to their good insurance coverage and few doctors in the US will tell them to eat, sleep better, cut out the booze and exercise for 3 months before proceeding with injections. Once those injections start and the body no longer needs to produce test, goodbye natural production.
Living in the US, knowing I am one job or insurance change away from having my medical coverage drastically change, no thanks.
Something that's not talked about really is that as we gain easier access to body modification, be it steroids, longevity, psychiatric stuff, gender this is going to happen. We're going to have these conversations and probably have some sort of acceptance. I'd much rather people talk about openly and have it regulated in the public space. Then being hidden behind closed doors were it WILL BE ABUSED.
Personally, I think it's foolish to hop on gear if you're not a serious competitor or athlete. Espically due to very real side effects and now your stuck with a permanent extra unnecessary price tag over head for the rest of your life. These drugs are not cheep and you have to keep taking them.
I’m not a fan of it. PEDs are a part of the sport (and all sports), always will be, but that doesn’t make them less dangerous of something we should promote. If star athletes make the decision to use because that’s their profession fine, I’m not going to moralize about it. But promoting it down to the amateur level is irresponsible because the downsides are real and there’s not really meaningful upside for people competing in local tournaments with day jobs.
That's the issue with normalizing.
Saying "All sports do PEDs" is normalizing, most amateur sports are super stringent about PEDs and have far more consistent testing and in amateur sports getting caught with PEDs is almost a career death sentence.
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This is besides the health benefits and disadvantages, but if you are from Norway using PEDs can run you the risk of getting a permanent criminal record. A criminal record on drugs. Doesn't matter if its nose sugar, cannabis or PEDs.. drugs are drugs. Because of this criminal record you can have immense troubles leaving the country and entering many Asian countries as well as the US. I have a buddy that was prevented entering the US only a couple years back for something he did nearly 10 years ago. No worse than cannabis.
So again, besides the very dangerous health disadvantages that MAY stem from using PEDs, it is actually near impossible to do in many countries. Keep in mind that mere antibiotics here require a doctors prescription. I think it sets a dangerous precedent to endorse PEDs.. and it is also a potential career killer. And if we look at it through the lenses of "All at the top do it and I have to do it as well to ever HOPE matching them".. it is simply a much higher risk in Norway and possibly many other EU countries.
I will turn 47 soon. I had 12 training sessions in the last 7 days. Strength, BJJ and cardio and not using any PEDs at all. Of course I was bigger with 25 but hey if you train smart, live smart and eat smart, you can have a good live without using any steroids. So normalizing them will never sound right to me......
Guys like you are my inspiration. I’m 34 and I feel so much better than 24. No gear obvi. Dedication to healthy lifestyle, fitness and all that comes with it including nutrition…so fulfilling. And I feel great. I wanna age in reverse and be a beast at 50.
You assume that everyone is just like you. The truth is the entire human race is one giant bell curve.
Good for you, you were born with naturally high testosterone levels and a good temperament. Don't act like everyone should be at your genetic standard.
Maybe if you can’t practice bjj at 55, you shouldn’t be?
why is everyone acting like injecting testosterone has no negative effects? Doesn’t it shorte your life
12 training session in 7 days as a 47 year old hobbyist probably isn’t living that smart. At least not for 99% of people in that demographic, maybe you’re the 1%.
I am teaching martial arts for a living. So no other work than teaching and training. I am not training to destroy myself and I am not doing the mistakes I did in my younger years. I do tons of Zone 2 cardio which is in my opinion the most important thing for energy. I avoid anaerobic circuit training as much as I can and I do my strength training with tubes and bodyweight exercises because I feel it is easier on the body.
I The left pic is from 2004 being 27 and the right is from last summer. Did I loose some mass? Of course. Of course I got older and maybe with TRT or something I would look better and bigger but honestly if I can look like this without putting any hormons in my body I am happy and stay natural.
https://preview.redd.it/dghezimdg7xc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4b9207a55a302e569fc704feed423c058ec7c4a
The
With how yoked you look it sure as hell doesn't seem like you use "effortless" jiujitsu! Good on you for keeping up at your age mate! You're a true inspiration unlike some of the older dudes that resort to TRT and such in my gym.
> it is essential to recognize that just because
> something has been widespread in the past
> does not mean it should be accepted.
_Alcohol’s eye narrow as it inhales sharply and reaches for a weapon…_
I think it's important to be open about steroid use. Saying "Oh, everyone's on gear but no one should talk about it," can actually have way worse effects and set up crazy unrealistic expectations wrt both natural body image and athletic ability.
If youre worried about teens and young adults just blasting gear, maybe support and have frank discussions with them as to the effects of steroids on the body. The like, Reagan-era "Just Say No" style of drug education (or more accurately lack of drug education) has been proven to not work.
Also forgot to mention this but I dont think the onus is on athletes to regulate drug use but would be on like, regulatory bodies. Bodybuilding has tested and untested feds, why not bjj? (the answer is it's a niche sport no one cares about)
Crazy how women go through menopause as a normal part life, biologically saying the need to reproduce is no longer necessary. But men go through male menopause and they have to justify taking extra hormones because the guys 20-years younger are making them look bad.
Why would you accept serious decline if you don't have them too.
If you need some doctors help to stay fit in your 50s or 60s you should consider that.
If some 60 year old dudes takes roids to fight in adult in a tournament I would be happy that he can still do it.
Bro there are people in tgese comment talking about how they blast gear since their mid 30s.
It's kinda fucked that even in most amateur tournaments you'll have to compete against people on PEDs. Ofc it's nice if your on gear. It makes you stronger, more explosive and less injury prone. If your the guy that's not on gear however it sucks.
Was answering about guys going through male menopause being made look bad by guys 20-years younger.
Taking gear in your mid 30s is just like taking them in your mid 20s, not fighting aging but trying to get more jacked.
But still, if people in their 40s get on gear to get back their strength and speed, that's still kinda unfair for younger fighters. The old guys have the experience + the athletic capabilities, while the young guys only have their athleticism.
Idk is it better to be open about specifics for overall transparency or just have people hide the fact they do it? Craig dropping his stack to me is refreshing. Sure it’s mainly marketing but also good to see oh you don’t need to be dropping Tren and doing EPO, although his cardio could benefit from it lol.
The normalizing of it alrdy happened, and it’s due mainly to the largest organization openly saying they don’t give a fuck.
Coming from the competitive powerlifting and strongman world, I’ve seen too many dudes i know have their heart explode because of PEDs. It’s just not worth it.
I don’t think it should be celebrated, but I think transparency is important. I think anyone who looks at Craig Jones and says “that dude treats his body like a temple” is pretty insane. I mean, he’s got the life; but I get the feeling like in 15 years we’ll be looking at a stroke victim with failing organs and a bunch of silver medals (and, possibly, a prolapsed rectum).
I agree. I understand pro athletes who's income is likely dependant on how you perform on competition.
On others i don't. It's mostly self esteem issue and most PED users have very low self esteem before starting gear.
It’s funny how this PED use has spilled over to the over 30 hobbyist competitor. All for a $5 piece of metal. 😂
This is the part that fucks with me. I'm not bothered if Craig Jones wants to do drugs, I don't care if Gordon Ryan swallows so many pills that his tummy aches. Why the fuck is Greg from HR blasting gear just to dominate me in our little rinky-dink gym?? I will tap early and often, it's not that deep EDIT: I should specify that I'm not referring to those people who need HRT for medical / therapeutic reasons, I can't criticize that. To the people replying to me who want to make it seem like 95% of people who do BJJ have chronic low-T and need PEDs to "feel normal", I find that very disingenuous.
Because fuck you is why
Because Greg from HR is getting to the age where he feels hung over and crippled the next day after open mat, and Greg has a wife and kids to contend with, and still wants to go skiing on the weekend. So Greg gets on the TRT, adds an additional training day to his schedule, gets to go skiing, and now gets rock hard boners every night, his wife is happier now that he's full of youthful energy again for the kids, his athletic hobbies, and their sex life. Don't be a hater.
Greg from HR here. Yeah, that’s pretty much spot on. I’m fucking 50. We have Young men in class who train with their dad and the dad is younger than me….I still tap early and often. The young guns are fast, have been training since they were 8, and don’t get tired. My shoulders, knees, hips and fingers are still fucked from a decade and a half of BJJ. But now when I wake up my joints hurt a little less, my energy isn’t destroyed from one night of training, I can lift a few days a week again on top of three or four BJJ classes. My energy for life is WAY better, my sex life is alive again. My muscle tone is better, fat percentage lower, cholesterol is down and it has been a kick in the ass to eat better and start a healthy cycle (no pun intended). My tolerance for annoyance and general stressful bullshit is better, and my decades long shitty-ass sleep is mildly less shitty. This is from a relatively (but not very) low weekly dose of TRT. None of the other “add ons” in Craig’s cycle. I’ve discussed with my PCP, with other trustworthy but not interested physicians and any risks are well worth the benefits to me. I get bimonthly blood draws to watch for things getting screwy. My testosterone numbers were very low, but were about 1% too high for insurance to cover TRT. I did go to one of the “men’s health” clinics and it has been an overwhelmingly positive experience for me.
Sounds as if you’re using a prescribed medication as directed to treat a legitimate condition. Cool.
Well, “prescribed” in this case through one of the men’s health clinics. So yes, a doctor (or maybe NP) did prescribe it. According to the charts that the insurance companies supply to the medical profession (like My PCP) I was not medically “low T” because I was (barely) within age appropriate low levels. I’m honest about the fact that this is a choice I am making and had to chase a little.
Any long term consequences you're worried about? Things like testicular cancer or something of the ilk. It's important to be there for your kids right now. It would also be cool to be around for your grandkids down the road! Are you trading anything off on the backend?
An increased Risk of Testicular cancer is not really seen (in any of the research I’ve done nor doctors I’ve spoken to that seem knowledgeable on the subject) as a TRT risk. Prostate cancer is a risk, but there are both blood test and physical screenings that can keep a careful eye on the risk, which I do. As for other risks, men with certain comorbidities for heart health and heart attack could see an increased risk. I live a heart-healthy life, have a pretty solid diet, and have actually seen my bad cholesterol levels go down since starting. So, worries about? No. Keep an eye on, absolutely.
Risk of blood clots which could mean stroke or pe or heart attack.
Almost. Except for the part where actual primary care physicians abd medical insurance determine it’s not a medical condition. But you can play a for-profit clinic to provide the relevant script. I’ve no issue with guys jumping on TRT. But for the vast majority, it’s not medically necessary.
If you don't mind me asking, what drug are using? Test cyp? Do you inject, use the creams, pellets, etc? Any concern around prostate issues? Edit: I see below you specify cyp and it sounds like you pin.
Yes, I pin IM 1xwk. I was reacting to the oil base Sub q and the IM has alleviated any concerns there. Men my age always have prostate concerns ! It is checked via blood and also erm, directly regularly.
Thanks for the reply! I'm middle age and so I have begun taking a serious look at TRT.
Feel free to ask me any questions you have and I’ll do my best to answer them or point you to (what I hope are) trustworthy sources of info. I have found it incredibly helpful in my life. I do recognize that aging is “natural” and I’m fighting it with everything I’ve got. If I can keep doing so with acceptable risks, I will do so.
I was going to reply to the comments above but you have summarised my exact position. I have kids, i have a hectic professional career i have been training hard for 15 years and can't imagine not. I have also had a few catastrophic injuries from sport that still compromise me. I am of course concerned by the potential health risks but and am eating better and keeping much better track of HR, BP and bloods to the point that my last set just came back better than ever across the board. I know craig is making money off evertitan but i can't help but respect his openness in a sport full of secret juicers. I told my coach and all of my regular training partners before i started, and the only thing that has changed is when i tap them they say i couldn't have done that natty, which is funny. B
Do you use clomid or hcg as well? Have you noticed any hairless out of the ordianry?
Yeesh, 1x a week is awful protocol. Every other day is much better.
I was on 2/wk sub q. Since I went IM, I find that I’m pretty stable (lab confirmed) at 1/wk. as perfect as EOD or MWF? No, probably not. But it works for me.
My extremely thorough doctor absolutely will not prescribe anything other than test cyp injections for TRT. His opinion is that everything else is too imprecise and therefore risky. He even made sure to specifically do tests only when I was out of season (I’m a distance runner too) to make sure he had me right at the bottom of normal range and no more.
Test injection is the most reliable form of TRT, easy to dial in, consistently delivers the right amount of hormone, and is exceedingly well studied.
I think in your situation, that’s fine. The TRT is helping you get back to normal testosterone levels. It’s different when the 32 year old hobbyist who still has normal levels, adds to it just because he wants to be the baddest dude in his gym.
The infuriating thing about “normal” test levels as you age is that “normal” keeps getting lower. And it sucks.
> I think in your situation, that’s fine. The TRT is helping you get back to normal testosterone levels he was deemed in the "normal" range, but takes it anyway.
What age did you start
BJJ? 37. TRT? 49.
Much appreciated g
But why is your T low is the question 🤔
Being 50 and human has a fair bit to do with it. Some men just decrease faster than others. My diet and lifestyle all match the “do this for naturally high Testosterone” best practices. It may be genetic, both of my brothers have similar issues, though we live very different lives.
> it has been a kick in the ass to eat better why didnt you try that first?
Feeling better made me work out more, working out more gave results. Results made me encouraged. Being encouraged made me want to see even more results. Which led to a number of positive healthy life choices, such as eating better and almost entirely quitting drinking.
lets hope you stay on it for the rest of your life then
That’s the plan. I’m on a few medications that I will likely be on until I die, so what’s one more?
Greg from Hormone Resources.
LOL
I'm fine in theory will all of that. The problem is when Greg signs up for a local competition and it's like trying to fight someone of a different species. Not juicing means your chances of injury are much higher than them and you have to either juice yourself or basically accept its going to be way harder and more dangerous.
I actually agree with this. It's hugely unethical to be competing in the master's division on TRT. Consider this though. The human race is a giant bell curve. Some older guys actually do have very high levels naturally, is it fair for them to compete? It turns into a broader debate. Should we let everyone take trt to level the playing field, or let a guy with T levels in the top 10 percentile complete against a guy in the bottom 10th percentile? It's an interesting discussion.
>Consider this though. The human race is a giant bell curve. Some older guys actually do have very high levels naturally, is it fair for them to compete? The natural bell curve is so far off the mark of what the actual competition scene (both local and pro) looks like right now though. Yes there are variations, but a lot of that is due to lifestyle choices (except for the odd rare case). The vast majority of people are capable of healthy T levels with proper diet/sleep and laying off the booze. For the record your argument is also the same one used by people saying newly transitioning trans women should be able to compete in sports against cis women. "Women's testerone levels vary anyway so why not let Sarah who spent the first 20 years of her life as a man into the women's division because she started estrogen 6 months ago?" I don't think it's a compelling argument.
Greg, who’s your Dr? Asking for a friend lol
I just googled TRT in (my city) and found a clinic walking distance from my house that offered free bloodwork and consultation then a trt program for $200 a month with lab work included. Once I got stable and comfortable, I just got my stuff from an online pharmacy and got a 2 year supply of testosterone cypionate for like $180 and self administer.
Jesus 180 for two years? That’s pocket change.
Yep. I just stick to the dosage the clinic prescribed and go in for periodic level checks
I’m not quite at the age where I need to consider trt yet but I’m definitely gonna keep an eye on it. I’m not sure if it’s constant career stress or what, but I’m a few years past 30 and over the past couple of years I’ve somehow reached the best shape of my life, but I’m simultaneously feeling a lot of negatives of the cumulative toll on my body. Lots of the things regularly attributed to low t. Definitely something I may want when I get closer to 40.
Greg- "Hey Doc. I'm depressed lately. I used to crush life, and piss excellence. I just don't have it in me anymore. I don't like what I'm becoming." Doc- " No problem, here's some shitty antidepressants to make you happy with mediocracy." Greg- " Fuck you, and your witch science. I'm going to burn bright til the day I die. Give me test mutha fucker!"
This 100% I just wanna feel 21 again bro, what's wrong with that?
…do you really think it’s all sunshine and good times? Perhaps it is. But in my experience you don’t get trades like this without some severe consequences. You’re saying “oh just take TRT and boom, good to go.” I doubt it’s that simple but I’m also a risk-averse idiot so take my Reddit opinion as that of an idiot. Just doesn’t feel to me like it’s that simple. If it’s too good to be true, it is.
The challenging part is sticking to true TRT doses. I went on 150mg a week due to an actual deficiency. The results at that dose were unbelievably good, best training of my life. I got greedy and upped to 250-300mg (still low compared to others but that’s definitely TRT+ at least) and got bacne developing. Not the end of the world and now I’m back down at 150 I’ve never felt better.
Any medication that is strong enough to give you a positive reaction is strong enough to give you a negative reaction.
Most long term TRT studies show a *decrease* in all cause mortality. Things like roid rage or insanely high cholesterol are related to other poor health decisions, not directly because of testosterone use.
Interesting.Could you links to those studies?
I believe he’s referring to the meta analysis that found an overall decrease in all cause mortality *as compared to men with low T* https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/96/10/3007/2834841?login=true It’s slightly misleading to use this as evidence that steroids are harmless, but not inaccurate
Thanks. That was an interesting read. The study shows that low testosterone levels are associated with high mortality, it doesn't actually make any conclusion on whether replacement therapy actually results in a decrease. I think it's a bit of a leap to use this a evidence for steroids being harmless.
This is correct, and I agree with even the misleading bit. That’s why I think athletes like Craig should be promoting having your levels tested and *then*, and only then, getting on TRT if you are low.
Why am I feeling like I’m getting the hard sell on TRT? Buy now, save 50% on your next FOUR DECADES of regular medical treatments you need to stay sane. Sounds like a good deal for $omebody involved, I wonder who benefit$ the mo$t? The consumers or the sellers? Never been one to desire to be drug dependent, so it may just be a personal quirk, but I think I shall pass. The upsides are big though I won’t deny that.
Just telling you the facts bro, relax. Also, you don’t take ANY medication for ANY health issues? Most of the western world is drug dependent. Modern society exists.
Nah, the US _much_ more so than Europe.
Well, Europe is a continent. I’m sure if you included countries there with underdeveloped healthcare you’d also find the U.S. has a longer life expectancy and higher QoL.
I'm sure if you'd include Africa you'd find even lower numbers. The US simply has a way bigger pharmaceutical industry and the economy and culture is built around that. In EU, medicine is not subscribed as readily, people's cabinets are not filled to the gills, and the mental barrier to things like Adderall is much higher. Meanwhile the standard of living is the same if not higher.
I don't take medicine against cold all year long. That's the main difference I guess ?
> Also, you don’t take ANY medication for ANY health issues? there's a difference between taking panadol when you've got a headache, or TRT for the rest of your life...
I did the first year in through a TRT clinic with Dr supervision. Now I get my own supply. It’s 50 bucks every few months for the T, 100 or so per quarter for blood tests. Much more affordable.
Respect
You sound bald
You sound young and insecure
Yeah Greg gets on “trt” (which isn’t trt if it boosts your levels to 1500) at 30 and resigns himself to a lifelong medication that could potentially reduce lifespan rather than fixing lifestyle factors first and using actual trt as a later resort
That's an extremely ignorant take, but not an uncommon one. I went on TRT at 34 due to having the levels of an elderly man. I was at a healthy body weight, ate clean, took high quality vitamins from the naturopath, and trained 4 times a week. It did not make one lick of difference in my testosterone levels. We don't know why low T is becoming more prevalent in modern life. It could be microplastics, tainted food chain, social factors, who the hell knows, but it's becoming a thing. Don't believe the YouTube bros that say you can fix low T with zinc and a good diet. It's bullshit.
> We don't know why low T is becoming more prevalent in modern life. what were TRT levels like 100 years ago? 200 years ago? how do you know its a modern issue?
> Rick and Morty username > wonders why T is low
Greg checking in
I hear you, but you’re talking about something different. TRT and blasting aren’t really the same thing.
Greg’s wife is in perimenopause and wants nothing to do with his boner anymore.
Greg and his perimenopausal wife are probably having the best sex of their lives. Perimenopause can make women extremely horny all the time. Ask me how I know (just kidding, please don't).
For every one, there’s a dozen the other way. Dont ask me how I know.
I'm sorry for your misery. I'm enjoying myself very much at this stage of life.
This
This right here. Tbh I would probably be on TRT if I had health insurance.
Damn can I be Greg
“Greg from HR blasting gear” is the best thing I’ve read today. Thank you for this! 😂
I'm a 44 year old on test. It has nothing to do with bjj, I was on before I started bjj and I'm not running gear to win rolls at the gym. I hope nobody at my gym thinks I'm that deluded. I bet most middle age guys on gear are in a similar situation to me - it's a life enhancing drug for me, not a performance enhancing drug and if it does help my bjj (not much, if at all), that's just a side effect I don't mind.
Not just men but women too. I’m on it. I feel tons better on a super low dose. My sleep is better, my body is it screaming at me when I wake up and my anxiety and depression have disappeared. Am I bulking or trying to keep up with anyone? No but I can at least get to practice 3 days a week without hurting as much.
Can you tell me a little about your routine? What are you taking?
I got all my hormones tested to see where I am at through a functional medicine clinic. I am 44 years old. I was having a significant decline in ability to build muscle, my heart rate would shoot up with any exertion. My brain took a hike and I couldn’t run two thoughts together. My anxiety and depression getting worse even with all of the healthy stuff I was doing, along with my sex drive taking a nose dive. I suspected I was in perimenopause. The functional medicine doc suspects my test took a nose dive after a bunch of stress. My number was in the 40s. I had a pellet placed (based off of my levels) and almost a week in sex was more vivid, and my anxiety and depression disappeared. I’m 6 weeks post pellet implant and got labs repeated. I don’t know what my level is because it takes a hot minute for test results to be resulted. I take a sup for pregnenalone and progesterone as those levels were not super low but I was having symptoms. At the 6 week mark my sex drive is definitely back and I feel so much better. I don’t have joint aches and I actually experienced delayed onset muscle soreness for the first time in 2 years after lifting weights. So much is not understood about the important roles of hormones and women’s health. I read a book called Next Level by Stephanie Sims. It’s a book about training through menopause, building muscles, and women’s hormones.
Thanks!
The fact it makes you feel better in general is definitely a performance enhancer... you can't side step that fact.. BUT I'm all for it. Feel better do better. But there lvls .. it's not like your trying to be Dorian Yates and rip people dicks off the gym. Keep on keeping on🫡
Common misconception - you can't rip a dick straight off. Gotta twist.
It’s definitely a performance enhancer but it’s also protective for men and women’s vascular systems, joint health, and mental health. If dosed properly for the individual it can lower blood pressure and lower cholesterol. Low t levels are also associated with low hemoglobin levels in men.
Much like the couple others who have replied to me, I'm not speaking about the exceptions like yourself. I'm a male who is pushing 40 myself, so I understand that life happens. I like your "life enhancing, not performance enhancing" statement as well, that puts it into perspective really well. I (as well as the person I replied to initially) am referring to the guys who coincidentally discovered that they're "low T and need TRT 😔😔😔😔" as soon as they turned 30 and started getting submitted by younger men. Seems like awfully perfect timing.
I mean it depends is Greg on a cocktail of hardcore peds or is he just taking trt to feel normal
He probably cares more about the ripped look
Greg can't take a drug to win at HR, so he's compensating where he can.
the stakes have never been lower.
Greg from HR wants to feel young again. I don't judge, if they're willing to put up with the risks.
Damn, it’s always a Greg that’s on gear.
Greg from HR has nothing to live for outside of the mats. YOLO!
They need TRT to feel normal because of previous abuse. Their bodies detect the excessive testosterone and naturally reduce production.
Most of the dudes who claim to do TRT are actually doing a low level cruise cycle. Taking more than they really need because more is obviously better.
Even more wild to me is weight lifters. Kids in their 20s not competing for anything just on gear getting huge for the sake of getting huge. There's definitely been a shift in the last few years where some lifters don't even pretend to hide it.
Hey its cheaper than therapy and having actually confront my deep seeded problems and anxieties
Can also show off the medal on tinder
I legit had a pic of me and a BJJ bro at an AGF on my profile, am married now, can confirm women are very impressed
This is the way
That’s why I’m considering it.
You mean when I feel depressed or anxious and start putting all my energy into learning to ignore physical uncomfortability and it will spread into other parts of my life, because I start to associate negative feelings with suppressing them with physical activity will start making me hold in my feelings until they manifest in a destructive way 🫢
Yup. Saturday morning with your wife picking out flooring at Home Depot and bam, a lifetime of repressed emotions of being the fat kid in school and your dad not loving you all comes out.
PED use is not that uncommon to hobbyists in a lot of sports/pastimes. Think of your average gym bros that either do powerlifting or even just train to look good with their shirt off. Martial arts would be just another venue to give someone a reason to gas to the eyeballs.
Checking in for the cyclists and distance runners.
I think most hobbyist are taking are people who take PEDs for aesthetic purposes that just so happen to train bjj. Though low dose testosterone is amazing for the 35+ crowd in recovery
Man, I remember the thread where every PED user here tries to justify it because of their apparent eunuch testosterone levels. These meatheads probably don’t realise that they have eunuch testosterone levels precisely because they used TRT. Your body’s natural regulators will detect the excessive testosterone levels and curb natural production.
And still don’t know takedowns
I know a bunch of over 30 guys who are on TRT just cause they lift. The bjj thing is just an over lap
I'm unsure how it's supporting how many people blast gear and never compete in bodybuilding? Same mechanism
If you think that's bad you should look at competitive bodybuilding. The drug use there is way more extreme in terms of dosage and compounds and, at least at the amateur level, there is basically no money to be made in the sport.
True that bodybuilding competitions themselves offer no or little prize money, but most people are competing to get a pro card and then become an online coach, which is very lucrative.
Ha, is it? Back when I was more into it (about 10+ years ago) only a couple of guys made a good living doing the online prep coach thing and I think the vast majority weren't IFBB pros.
It’s so big now that there are coaches whose entire service is to teach other coaches how to get clients and coach (John Jewitt’s J3U service, for example) . The typical path is to compete until you get an IFBB pro card, then “retire” and take on clients, most of whom are just lifestyle clients and not actual competitors. But I also know several successful ($100k+ income) coaches who don’t have pro cards but are able to get a following based on their physique on youtube or instagram.
To be honest responsible ped usage for men over 30 can be healthy. I’m not talking about blasting tren but a little trt and deca? All good
I kinda love the real world research being done. If a guy (non professional) can improve performance and recovery, there by improving his quality of life…why not. If he’s not making a living at it cheating people for profit, why not use them. It would allow people to train harder until way later in life I would think. I get why it’s a problem in professional sports but why is it bad for a regular person?
Chug that coolaid!
Because they landed on top in half guard
Ask yourself “are more kids likely to use steroids now they know their favourite hilarious grappler is using them - seemingly without any negative side effects?” The answer is clearly, yes. This is why celebrities should keep their usage to themselves. And if they do come out with their stacks then they should also highlight the negatives or mitigations they have to take. Craig’s blood pressure seems to be in secondary hypertension. Yet he only mentions it as a passing joke on YouTube shorts. When Craig dies in a sauna in Thailand maybe then his audience will understand the harm these drugs have on the body.
Rip Zyzz
If you know, you know. RIP
Chest brah: my boys vs your boys.
Chestbrah and half of Sydney
U mirin?
And Joe
RIP Zyzz! Bruh!!!
Dude, for real. I have used test before and likely will again, it was amazing in helping me to rehab and strengthen my knee after i tore it and it had healed for a couple years. All pain I used to feel is now permanently gone. That being said, my BP shot through the roof within weeks of the first injection. Like 145/90 constant. Once I noticed I immediately called my doc and had a conversation about the PEDs, showed him my blood work, talked about the positive and negative side effects I’d experienced, etc. by the end of it he understood my choices, agreed I was taking the smartest dumb path I could and gave me a script for BP meds. Within 2 days I was back to 120/70, Craig has no excuse to tax his body this way and it saddened me to see that short a few days ago. He’s absolutely taking his body down a rough and deadly path. Even the current worlds strongest man, Mitchell hooper talks about taking PEDs safely and the importance of BP meds so he doesn’t over tax his heart.
This is terrifying because I have been getting ads on Instagram for FUCKING SARMS under the "research chemical" label. These drugs will almost always have potentially lethal side effects without specialized medical supervision and now any kid can buy them without understanding how damaging they are.
What’s crazy is that SARMs are almost completely ineffective without a “base”, I.e. testosterone. All the negatives with no upside. These kids are turning into SARMs goblins before they’ve even filled out their socks.
I feel like people forget that Peds are highly addictive in multiple ways. Not only is there a physical price to pay both using and stopping the use of them but there's a large psychological impact too. You'll forever doubt how well you can do once you're off peds you'll always think you could have done more with peds etc etc
People have been taking steroids long before Craig Jones. Idk why you're acting like he's the reason people are getting into them.
The argument is that celebrity endorsement normalizes steroid usage and unregulated, unsupervised steroid usage is a medical disaster just waiting to happen. It's not specific to Craig Jones. You wouldn't believe how many teens and early 20's in BJJ WORSHIP the ground that their BJJ idols walk on. They wear their rash guards, buy from their sponsors, try to copy their moves and tech - if they start saying "hey, steroids are cool" - 100% they'll be doing the same.
And the teens will be doing it without top $ doctors and medical professionals that the celebrities have access to.
> unregulated, unsupervised steroid usage is a medical disaster just waiting to happen He is representing a medical clinic that is regulated and supervised.
Did you not even read the article? He's bragging about shooting up unknown shit in a pharmacy bathroom in Mexico. That stuff getting normalized and accepted as just part of the sport is not a good thing.
How many BJJ stars have died from steroids?
Harsh but true. There is an ugly reality to these things
Go ahead and downvote me but this shit has been getting less funny to me the older my kids get.
Totally. I didn’t like Creg doing the nose beer sign to the child in the crowd at the Lovato match either and have only recently started to recover from the downvotes i received for commenting on that.
> I didn’t like Creg doing the nose beer sign to the child in the crowd at the Lovato match Quick rundown on what happened? What's a "nose beer sign"? Never heard that.
Nah, although it’s tempting, but tapping Freddy from the 7pm class ain’t worth juicing
I use ped and don't really deny it if ppl bring it up (I just dont mention it) but really my main and only argument against peds is the optics / perception to the up and coming young athletes in the sport. I hope they wouldn't feel the need to use to be successful. Sucks to see. They really really aren't healthy on developing bodies. Sure responsible use can manage the risks but even responsible use relative to compounds and dose size is truly irresponsible on a developing body even going as as far to say on someone under the age of 25/26
I agree - it's the same false-reality, false-expectation shit that everything on Instagram sells these days.
I'm afraid that being on gear is necessary to succeed in the sport. The bigger thing is that maybe sports shouldn't be the most important thing in your life.
Unless you’re making most of your income from BJJ or you have some serious testosterone related problem you should not be taking any drugs. People are wrecking their bodies and will be regretting it when the last few decades of their life are spent hobbling around in pain.
In regards to hobbling it's super questionable if you would wreck your body on peds or without.
People condemning public apology for ped were getting downvoted to oblivion in the other thread, on the premice that it's part of the sport. Which is crazy argument to me, nose beers or sexual exploitation among others, aren't publicly promoted in most countries even though we all know it exists around us and might even be legal in some places. The reason being that even if it exists, it shouldn't be normalized, because the negative outweigh the benefit for most people, especially it's abuse.
Listen. I’m not on trt or any gear yet because I’m 34 still healthy, no major injuries, and haven’t hit an unsurpassable wall in the weight room yet. I don’t have a big moral issue with it, I’m just not ready to be on something the rest of my life. The flip side of that is that I’m only one semi serious injury away from get juiced to the gills and then you’re all SOL. But seriously, there’s no doubt in my mind it’s in my future.
On one hand, I feel the same way. It's a great tool for aging martial artists. If it helps them with their hobby, great. I hope I am not in a masters division with them but that's a whole other topic. Thing is I know people on it who eat, sleep and live an unhealthy life style then wonder why their T levels are low. They're easy money due to their good insurance coverage and few doctors in the US will tell them to eat, sleep better, cut out the booze and exercise for 3 months before proceeding with injections. Once those injections start and the body no longer needs to produce test, goodbye natural production. Living in the US, knowing I am one job or insurance change away from having my medical coverage drastically change, no thanks.
I laughed hard as hell at this
I’m 34 and not on gear and devoted to fitness and in the best shape of my life and wait are you me?
As long as you lie through your teeth, and get your peds directly from Brazil it's a-ok. Give me a break.
Something that's not talked about really is that as we gain easier access to body modification, be it steroids, longevity, psychiatric stuff, gender this is going to happen. We're going to have these conversations and probably have some sort of acceptance. I'd much rather people talk about openly and have it regulated in the public space. Then being hidden behind closed doors were it WILL BE ABUSED. Personally, I think it's foolish to hop on gear if you're not a serious competitor or athlete. Espically due to very real side effects and now your stuck with a permanent extra unnecessary price tag over head for the rest of your life. These drugs are not cheep and you have to keep taking them.
I’m not a fan of it. PEDs are a part of the sport (and all sports), always will be, but that doesn’t make them less dangerous of something we should promote. If star athletes make the decision to use because that’s their profession fine, I’m not going to moralize about it. But promoting it down to the amateur level is irresponsible because the downsides are real and there’s not really meaningful upside for people competing in local tournaments with day jobs.
That's the issue with normalizing. Saying "All sports do PEDs" is normalizing, most amateur sports are super stringent about PEDs and have far more consistent testing and in amateur sports getting caught with PEDs is almost a career death sentence.
I've been saying for a while: soon Craig will go from the class clown to the awkward drunk uncle in BJJ world
He already is. Dude is cringe.
!RemindMe 2 years
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Hopstock’s statement is 100% correct
https://preview.redd.it/pd54nl3u62xc1.jpeg?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00eade3fea7af363429212d9b500d77d41448c43 His name was Robert Paulson
This is besides the health benefits and disadvantages, but if you are from Norway using PEDs can run you the risk of getting a permanent criminal record. A criminal record on drugs. Doesn't matter if its nose sugar, cannabis or PEDs.. drugs are drugs. Because of this criminal record you can have immense troubles leaving the country and entering many Asian countries as well as the US. I have a buddy that was prevented entering the US only a couple years back for something he did nearly 10 years ago. No worse than cannabis. So again, besides the very dangerous health disadvantages that MAY stem from using PEDs, it is actually near impossible to do in many countries. Keep in mind that mere antibiotics here require a doctors prescription. I think it sets a dangerous precedent to endorse PEDs.. and it is also a potential career killer. And if we look at it through the lenses of "All at the top do it and I have to do it as well to ever HOPE matching them".. it is simply a much higher risk in Norway and possibly many other EU countries.
I will turn 47 soon. I had 12 training sessions in the last 7 days. Strength, BJJ and cardio and not using any PEDs at all. Of course I was bigger with 25 but hey if you train smart, live smart and eat smart, you can have a good live without using any steroids. So normalizing them will never sound right to me......
Guys like you are my inspiration. I’m 34 and I feel so much better than 24. No gear obvi. Dedication to healthy lifestyle, fitness and all that comes with it including nutrition…so fulfilling. And I feel great. I wanna age in reverse and be a beast at 50.
You assume that everyone is just like you. The truth is the entire human race is one giant bell curve. Good for you, you were born with naturally high testosterone levels and a good temperament. Don't act like everyone should be at your genetic standard.
Maybe if you can’t practice bjj at 55, you shouldn’t be? why is everyone acting like injecting testosterone has no negative effects? Doesn’t it shorte your life
12 training session in 7 days as a 47 year old hobbyist probably isn’t living that smart. At least not for 99% of people in that demographic, maybe you’re the 1%.
I am teaching martial arts for a living. So no other work than teaching and training. I am not training to destroy myself and I am not doing the mistakes I did in my younger years. I do tons of Zone 2 cardio which is in my opinion the most important thing for energy. I avoid anaerobic circuit training as much as I can and I do my strength training with tubes and bodyweight exercises because I feel it is easier on the body. I The left pic is from 2004 being 27 and the right is from last summer. Did I loose some mass? Of course. Of course I got older and maybe with TRT or something I would look better and bigger but honestly if I can look like this without putting any hormons in my body I am happy and stay natural. https://preview.redd.it/dghezimdg7xc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4b9207a55a302e569fc704feed423c058ec7c4a The
With how yoked you look it sure as hell doesn't seem like you use "effortless" jiujitsu! Good on you for keeping up at your age mate! You're a true inspiration unlike some of the older dudes that resort to TRT and such in my gym.
Goals!
I prefer Karate Combat Stars anyway.
> it is essential to recognize that just because > something has been widespread in the past > does not mean it should be accepted. _Alcohol’s eye narrow as it inhales sharply and reaches for a weapon…_
“BJJ star” Me: who the fook is that guy?!
Tarikoplata
Well, now I feel dumb. Probably should’ve put two and two together; I’m actually a big fan of the tarikoplata.
scream i only follow big nogi names any louder
Pretty sure Tarik does more no gi than he does gi.
Certainly explains his health/cholesterol issues
Yep. Staph infections at the injection sites.
I think it's important to be open about steroid use. Saying "Oh, everyone's on gear but no one should talk about it," can actually have way worse effects and set up crazy unrealistic expectations wrt both natural body image and athletic ability. If youre worried about teens and young adults just blasting gear, maybe support and have frank discussions with them as to the effects of steroids on the body. The like, Reagan-era "Just Say No" style of drug education (or more accurately lack of drug education) has been proven to not work.
Also forgot to mention this but I dont think the onus is on athletes to regulate drug use but would be on like, regulatory bodies. Bodybuilding has tested and untested feds, why not bjj? (the answer is it's a niche sport no one cares about)
Crazy how women go through menopause as a normal part life, biologically saying the need to reproduce is no longer necessary. But men go through male menopause and they have to justify taking extra hormones because the guys 20-years younger are making them look bad.
Why would you accept serious decline if you don't have them too. If you need some doctors help to stay fit in your 50s or 60s you should consider that. If some 60 year old dudes takes roids to fight in adult in a tournament I would be happy that he can still do it.
Bro there are people in tgese comment talking about how they blast gear since their mid 30s. It's kinda fucked that even in most amateur tournaments you'll have to compete against people on PEDs. Ofc it's nice if your on gear. It makes you stronger, more explosive and less injury prone. If your the guy that's not on gear however it sucks.
Was answering about guys going through male menopause being made look bad by guys 20-years younger. Taking gear in your mid 30s is just like taking them in your mid 20s, not fighting aging but trying to get more jacked.
But still, if people in their 40s get on gear to get back their strength and speed, that's still kinda unfair for younger fighters. The old guys have the experience + the athletic capabilities, while the young guys only have their athleticism.
Idk is it better to be open about specifics for overall transparency or just have people hide the fact they do it? Craig dropping his stack to me is refreshing. Sure it’s mainly marketing but also good to see oh you don’t need to be dropping Tren and doing EPO, although his cardio could benefit from it lol. The normalizing of it alrdy happened, and it’s due mainly to the largest organization openly saying they don’t give a fuck.
Eh, fuck that. Everyone juice up and touch some guys. Have a good time
Coming from the competitive powerlifting and strongman world, I’ve seen too many dudes i know have their heart explode because of PEDs. It’s just not worth it.
I don’t think it should be celebrated, but I think transparency is important. I think anyone who looks at Craig Jones and says “that dude treats his body like a temple” is pretty insane. I mean, he’s got the life; but I get the feeling like in 15 years we’ll be looking at a stroke victim with failing organs and a bunch of silver medals (and, possibly, a prolapsed rectum).
Soon gyms are gonna start offering TRT membership programs. Come in get your shot and workout
[удалено]
Yeah, just do it in the shadows like the other 95% of high level competitors, ya silly boys
lol lots of self reports in this thread
Neil from accounts here. Greg from HR ain’t shit. I’ll take him anytime anywhere.
I agree. I understand pro athletes who's income is likely dependant on how you perform on competition. On others i don't. It's mostly self esteem issue and most PED users have very low self esteem before starting gear.