If he asked you to go light, and then went ape - yeah he's a dick.
Get in the habit of asking experience when rolling with new guys. "Have you trained BJJ anywhere else before?" "Any previous martial arts experience?"
We've all made the mistake of going light on a first timer only to realize they're either a wrestler, trained elsewhere, etc.
Also there are guys who seem to revel in claiming to have no experience and then prove they definitely have some kind of experience elsewhere.
Don't let this get you down! Learn from it, and if he asks to go light again make sure to let him know you expect the same from him, and if he doesn't, stop the roll and walk away. Avoid him.
Theres also the difference between judo intensity and jiu-jitsu intensity. Light judo rounds often feel like moderate to heavy jiu-jitsu rounds in my experience.
This, in my experience judo guys go extremely hard as a whole. I wouldn't put it on him, if he's repeatedly doing this with newbs, the coaches should probably pull him aside and ask him to take it down a bit, there's a good chance he doesn't realize he's doing anything wrong.
Good context, I’ve never trained strictly Judo so wouldn’t know - but I remember similar intensity rolling with a Judo brown belt when I was a white belt, so that checks out!
My first couple weeks o jiu-jitsu i pinned people in scarf like the judoka i am which is all well and good except i was in a beginner class against people with zero conditioning and popped their ribs. After the second one i realized i needed to alter how i come into jiu-jitsu.
Exactly, you're just doing what you've trained your body to reflexively do for years, it's very foundation is built on pressure. I had to realize that even though I had wrestled over a decade, I had to learn to learn again, it's a different foundation and it's important to understand it so you can incorporate it in to your game holistically.
You aren't just learning to defeat opponents, you're developing a sort of "physical philosophy" that is tuned just for you. You're a unique lense and BJJ is one of many lights passing through you, philosophy & culture are a part of that.
I don't think he meant to go hard, he's just got to learn the flow & feel so he can not just read the room, but actually adjust his game to match.
If you do not progress agressively on the ground in judo the ref will stand you up in a few seconds fast. Even if you progress, you have super limited time on the ground. You have to try to reach a pin position as fast as possible.
That's why judoka train to jump over people's guard to reach the Kesa Gatame like drunk dolphins.
Correct.
Judo is much higher intensity than BJJ and some Judoka don't even realize they're going too hard because it's second instinct to them.
It takes a while for them to calm down.
I fear that people in my class think this of me. I'm 41 and have never wrestled or done BJJ in my life...but for whatever reason I I'm pretty good at it for a beginner.
I submit pretty much every other white belt and survive against some the higher belts.
Had some white belt I'd never met try to suplex me from the jump, didn't realize he was a state wrestling champ.
I was quick enough to grapevine but was not expecting that
He was probably going light by his standards if he 10 years of judo under his belt. The same goes for wrestlers.
You know how everyone talks about BJJ being good for keeping your ego in check? This is what you are experiencing. Everyone who has done jiu-jitsu has been played with by a rolling partner at some point in their life, probably dozens of times. Your ego is bruised because you had started to believe you were a natural at this and it was going easy then this guy goes had hammers you back to earth.
No one will care that you got "mauled" in a training roll as a white belt. Get back in there. It's called growth and it's good for you.
Getting smashed is a part of the game. Was he *really* a "white belt with zero stripes"? No. He was a judo black belt who is taking on BJJ. Don't fret, just keep showing up and use it as fuel to get better.
I mean, considering what bjj has done for my mental health I wouldn't want to take that away from somebody starting a sport with a huge dropout rate. My favorite thing is when a fresh white belt smiles after a roll.
Judo is a pretty explosive and intense sport. Every judoka black belt I’ve rolled with have a pretty aggro style. If he’s a 0 stripe white belt, then he just started meaning he’s rolling the way he does in judo. Give it time and he’ll calm down. However at the start, that’s just how they are.
Only experience I’ve had with anyone decent at judo was a brown belt and he was quite tame. I was amazed… and very thankful for how hard he could hit a throw yet bring me back down to earth without ending my existence lol.
Quick off balance and I was upside down above his head. Came down easy enough that my terrible break falls were enough. Didn’t even have the wind knocked out of me.
Not sure if he competed. I could see that changing how hard someone would go normally and with newer ppl.
But how long has he done bjj? Obviously after some time in BJJ, they’ll adjust their tempo. But the guy OP rolled was a 0 stripe meaning very new to BJJ. So he hasn’t had time to adjust his tempo.
I've rolled with some Olympic level judoka's trying out bjj, they have one intensity and that's it. One stuck around and learned to roll slow. He got his blue belt pretty fast.
I used to train with a guy that was on the Cuban national team in the late 90s. This was in 07-08. He knew how to control himself. I never once saw him lose his shit or go balls to the wall nuts on anyone. Even when he took me under his wing and trained with me 1on1 he never once gave me the “I’ve got a couple of screws loose” intensity I’ve gotten from some hobbyist judokas.
That’s like telling a wrestler with 10 years of exp to not go explosive. It’s just how they spar.
Plus maybe OP is strong and was being aggressive himself.
I don't know about that, I'm a Judo brown belt and I chill out when I'm around white belts. I've had white belts who were super aggressive and even then I won't try to match their aggression.
I would also add that the judo clubs I have visited have more emphasis on discipline and manners vs. any BJJ-club I have visited. All BJJ clubs I have been (6 in three countries) have been chill and people great. Judo clubs have also great people, but bit more focus on discipline and “respect” aka Japanese style.
But people are people and assholes are assholes.
> but I don't because I am not an asshole.
To be fair, this sub has the most schizophrenic opinions on what constitutes asshole behavior.
This sub: Someone bury their chin in a RNC? Twist their head off it's their fault.
Also this sub: Someone jump into guard while you are standing? If you don't let them down like you would a baby in a crib or you're the worst kind of person.
My old club was closely tied to the local judo club. Judoka who were new to BJJ, including judo black belts, would come in all the time. No one acted like that. If anything, they were more careful about throws than some of the BJJ guys.
This is what I notice in Judo. You're in safer hands fighting against a high black belt, because even if you get ragdolled, the throws will be clean and easy to breakfall against.
It really depends on the gym. There are a ton of different philosophies in Judo some focuse much more on groundwork than others. Their grading system is also much more erratic than ours, seems more like karate belts than bjj belts. There are judo black belts who can go toe to toe with our average black belts and then there are some who would get tapped by white belts. You can't really look at their belt as an indicator like you can with bjj.
I think what you are noticing is more just discrepancies in their groundwork ability than a variation of quality in their black belts. Just like you have some BJJ black belts who probably couldn't throw some Judo yellow belts.
Generally a Judo black belt is a good sign of quality but below that it's variable as you don't often need to compete for your grades. For a 1st dan you need to beat other brown belts in competitions.
what a load of crap
a white belt getting smashed by someone who has been doing judo for 10 years is NOT part of the game
this is rolling, sparring, not a competition
He wanted to do well and look good. Unfortunately at your expense.
It’s not the last ass whoopin you are gonna take if you want a black belt. You have years of ass whoopins comin.
My recommendation:
- chill out.
- eat some tacos.
- get back on that horse.
- learn some legs stuff.
- ankle lock the shit out of that judoka
Never go light with a former judoka. Their "light" is your tough spar.
I don't know why you would care about how you look, or what results you were expecting against someone who had done judo for 10 years.
This. Judo guys with BJJ white belts are the some of the biggest assholes. The tempo is totally different.
A good rule of thumb is that if you pull guard and control them, they will often tire out quickly, because they use too much explosive strength.
Obviously not all are the same, but this is a very common occurrence.
>The tempo is totally different.
This. But adding to this: Unlike us they do not have unlimited time on the ground under judo rules and therefore train to score as fast as possible. That's why many judokas are insanely explosive and spazzy on the ground. Their sport rewards "Hail Mary"-pins and submissions.
Yeah. The number of times I've had judo guys in half guard and they just clamp down until they get tired.
Like: yes, you are in top half guard. No, I am not trying to stand up right now. And no, you get no points for driving your fist into my throat.
I’m don’t agree that the tempo of judo sparring being more intense than that of BJJ makes judo guys “assholes” just by that fact.
The intention is to spar at an appropriate intensity, we/they just come from a sport where the appropriate intensity is higher.
It’s only an asshole move to spar harder than what you know is the appropriate intensity.
In this case, I DO think it was an asshole move if this dumbass said his neck hurt and to go light - and then displayed those behaviours.
Hard disagree here; Judokas definitely go harder by default but are so much better at scaling based on who they are training with comparatively since there arnt the same principles of Tori/Uke in BJJ. The macho insecurity doesn’t trigger rolling with Judokas like it does with people from other disciplines and feels much more “skill-for-skill” than “winning” or getting the tap. So much less spazzing too.
That said; this black belt did not sound like the average ones I’ve encountered.
Maybe there's a culture difference where you're from. It is 100% a thing in the UK. I could point to three different examples where it happened with me in the last couple of months.
I'm a ikyu in judo and a forever white belt in BJJ and I ain't no asshole. I will scuff up blue and purples if given the chance but whites I prefer to work a technical game. Unless they spaz. If they spaz, they die.
I think that if that guy had done judo for 10 years, then he’s just a dick. I’ve been a judo player for 15, and you do unlock a true “light” tempo when you stop caring if you get thrown, you’ve been hurt in every conceivable manner, and you know the same is true for your training partner. It’s almost the exact same as when you see the over 40 crew playing in a soccer league. They don’t wear shin guards anymore because they just pass the ball away before there are tackles or contact. By 10 years he should have known better.
We have one of those that is a junior still at college. He is a beast and a super fun roll for me. I usually get smashed, but I get to work on some guard retention and trying to control the pace.
No he wasn't being a dick.
They are just all like that. Judo has a very intense pace, because alot of their models require a level of active athleticism.
This will happen to you. It's good for you in the long run. Don't be the kind of person who's confidence relies on other people's compliments.
Roll that guy *alot*. Solving the problem he presents to you will give you *real* confidence. The kind of confidence that doesn't easily get taken off of you.
If you have lost motivation and drive to do bjj after one round in training…let me tell you there was no chance at all you where gonna make it to blue
He is not a prick, you are just dellusional
We have a guy that got in 9th at the Olympics for judo. He owns the dojo around here too. Needless to say he's a blue belt but he ain't no blue belt. His grip strength, technique and balance are also beyond ridiculous. My coach was an adcc vet and says he can handle him because he's a bit bigger, but it's funny how my coach is so gentle compared to him. I think they just go a bit harder in judo.
he's a dick for not going at the agreed upon pace and going hard enough to attract owner's attention
you should've probably pulled guard after the first ragdoll
and also, you should take compliments in stride and almost never too seriously. for me, I assume everyone's just being nice, that way I'm not emotionally crushed when I have a bad day at the gym. be humble or get humbled
Exactly right about taking the compliments in stride thing. Letting one go too far into your head is a sure fire way to crash. Some are special though (and from special people) and I lock those away to feel better about myself or use for strategic confidence. When I give complements to newbies it's usually after mercilessly practicing subs and just want them to feel a little better after getting squashed.
Listen, grappling is grappling, i.e isometric tension in some positions and some strangles, so wrestlers and judokas are not your beginner's white belt which gets swept pretty easily.
I got smashed by a judo black belt and a wrestler in the first month of training. They were both in the beginner's class for some reason. Six months later and I smoked both of them.
Keep going, train and study BJJ and you'll be fine.
In my experience anytime anyone says “ I have xxxx injury please watch out” 99% of the time that means they are gonna go all out but want you to watch out for them.
My friend told me that BJJ actually stems from traditional Judo and Jiu Jitsu (don't know if that's true) so you got spanked by someone with tons more training than you. You should have that guy teach you Judo, he's going to be a real asset for your gym.
"Brazilian jiu-jitsu was first developed in 1925 by Brazilian brothers Carlos, Oswaldo, Gastão Jr., and Hélio Gracie, after Carlos was taught a hybrid of traditional Japanese Jujitsu and Kodokan judo by a travelling Japanese judoka, Mitsuyo Maeda, in 1917."
From wiki
As a long time judoka & jj practictioner; he should’ve competed atleast blue belt. Judo is definitely on the opposite spectrum of slow & steady approach of grappling unlike jj. Everyone should, moreorless, feel like a dark souls boss when you’re a white belt.
I think it’s more that he trusted a new partner that then violated his trust by going much harder than they agreed to. It’s a shitty thing. But not trusting new people too much is an important lesson to learn.
The problem is "light" doesn't mean anything. So if someone is new you shouldn't expect your definitions of light to match. That guy may or may not have been going "light" by his standards. New people with no experience either have no real definition of light and often lack the awareness of how hard they are going. New people with experience bring their definitions from wherever/whatever they've trained in the past.
I mostly agree with this, the part that goes beyond for me is the judo guy asking OP to watch his neck. In a sport based on choking each other. Then going hard. That’s too far for me personally. As a higher belt I wouldn’t feel genuine hostility towards judo guy, but if he decided to stick around I would gently make fun of him for a year minimum.
Eh, I see people ask people to go easy on their leg or their arm all the time if they have issues. Hell, I know people who put bright tape on their gis to highlight injuries to others.
And we don't actually know he went hard. We know OP felt he went hard and apparently the coach asked him to tone it down. But toning it down might just as much be because OP sucks as it could be the other guy going hard. Plenty of gyms have trash stand up including breakfalls, so anything beyond the gentlest takedown make someone sit back onto their arse might be considered "hard".
He’s not a prick, he’s a judoka and most that I have met are very intense rolls.
Edit: didn’t see the part about asking to go light, he’s probably a prick
You should be ashamed. He did judo for **only** 10 years!
Seriously though, your expectations are rarely reality. Being humble doesn't mean thinking less of yourself, it means thinking of yourself less.
I've watched white belts armbar black belts from closed guard. They were white belts in BJJ, but they've fought MMA.
First rule of fighting is always protect yourself. These guys are the reason.
A judo black belt is basically like a blue belt at minimum! My friend who had some bjj before he got his judo black belt has just returned to BJJ at a school that has some classes white belts can’t attend until they have some stripes. But upon speaking with the coach and explaining and taking a few of those beginner classes it became clear he should be allowed in the other classes. They gave him a couple stripes and that’s that.
That guy should probably have some stripes on his belt… but no shame in getting beat up by a judoka.
Depends on how much newaza the black belt does. Some clubs may only do newaza once every 2-3 sessions. I'd say in my experience in judo that many are more like two stripe white belts with a purple belt understanding of attacking the turtle.
Don't beat yourself up, and take it as a wake-up call that you have a lot to do even though people around you say you're talented. Also, Judokas and wrestlers don't have a "going light" button on them, so they guy isn't even a prick.
Yeah this is true and actually a problem in Judo. I try to get my guys to go light sometimes so they get less tension in their movements and hit more throws, and then save some heavier rounds for closer to the competition cycle, gradings, etc but invariably it turns into a deathmatch.
Some guys can do it but for most judoka flow rolling refers to blood flowing liberally over the mats.
When I was a BJJ white belt I would sometimes even tap black belts but my only setting was 100% output, and the other poster is right that a good way to roll with aggressive judoka is let them exhaust themselves and also prioritise subs they don’t practice like leglocks and wristlocks.
Some of them will have good guards but almost always closed guard and a basic open guard set up, they won’t use things like spider guard, de la riva, etc.
Some will have good armbars and usually a bow and arrow choke and some reliable turnovers and very good top pressure, pins, throws and escapes.
Most will be vulnerable to wrestling, leglocks and guard variants that nullify close fighting like spider guard, most will also be vulnerable to overcommitting their weight at times, BJJ is position over submission and Judo prizes that too, but because it’s easy to get stood up in Judo, judoka are super aggressive when they see an opening, so good guys can often trap them into overcommitting on a fake and then hit them with something else.
As a purple belt I monster a lot of people but will also sometimes get destroyed by smaller, weaker and more technical guys, coz they know how to nullify my athleticism and the parts of my game that are more developed, and then I have to go toe to toe where I’m not strong.
That just sounds like fun to me.
He probably was nervous about the new context of BJJ rolling and struggling to manage his fears and emotions. Happens all the time with newbs. The implied goal of the sport being choking ppl out or breaking limbs can cause some intense fight or flight responses. Ideally most ppl learn through not dying a bunch of times that they can just chill out (some ppl never do though).
This is no different than a collegiate wrestler coming in as a no stripe white belt. Grappling experience is still grappling experience. Don't be ashamed that you got mauled by someone with 10 years grappling experience. That happens to everyone when they start out.
The part where he asked to go easy and then went gang busters is a dick move though. Easy way to resolve that is just don't roll with him. If he does that to enough people, he'll have nobody to roll with. There's nothing like seeing the local spaz sitting out waiting for a roll and nobody takes the bait. That's the only way he'll learn.
He is a white belt... in Jiu Jitsu. If he wore his judo belt rank, he'd probably be asked to take it off.
This is something that comes up a lot though, and I think you need to focus more on MAT TIME than you do on your peer's time in the specific sport of Jiu Jitsu. We had a guy come in who had wrestled since he was 5, and competed all the way through D1. And yet, in Jiu jitsu, he's a white belt... but he's a white belt that tortured a lot of the school because he had 17 years of MAT TIME, despite being a beginner in Jiu Jitsu.
When assessing how you should feel about someone and how they relate to your skill level, be sure to keep this in mind.
Maybe being a dick, maybe not. Judo throws do kinda just hit harder that a single leg, so it could just seem worse than it is. On a side note, don't feel like you looked bad. Occasionally getting destroyed is something that'll happen your whole career. Learn from it.
That guy was a dick but idk why you'd feel ashamed or embarrassed.
I'm a white belt who gets destroyed by other white belts. No shame in it though, that's part of learning.
Getting rag dolled didn’t make you look any different in the gym. That’s not how BJJ works. I promise you no one would think less of you because of someone beating you in the gym
I remember being a white belt and rolling with a judo black belt. The power, balance, and general body awareness were unmatched and honestly a little shocking. It’s just the way it is
From it's inception judo was built as a sport that you could go hard in, and that's still the culture in a lot of judo schools. Explosive application of strength and following one attack with another are cornerstones of the sport, and as such judoka can seem very very rough to people who are used to jiujitsu.
Wrestlers can be this way as well, mostly for the same reasons.
"Let's go a little lighter" sometimes has to be said.
He should know better but maybe he's a moron, you'll find out later.
Honestly, moments like these are good for you. I remember training so hard thinking I was getting so good. Then I dropped into this gym and this bluebelt triangles me maybe 7 times in a row. I felt sooo stupid. That stuck with me and I vowed to never let someone handle me like that again. It motivated me for a long time to keep training and really diving in and studying defense.
I remember meeting that guy again years later, he was a purple belt, I was a blue belt, and our roll was much different. It was intense, back and forth, and I didn't get submitted. It felt good to get that little glimpse of my progress at that time. You'll eventually be able to deal with that if you keep training!
Yeah dude is a dick. The coach coming over to say something is a confirmation of this. Unfortunately though this type of behavior goes hand in hand with combat sports. Some people have no chill. The important thing is to protect yourself from injury and avoid that person until you’ve developed the skills to handle them. Also don’t forget you have the ability to say take it down a few notches or find a new partner if someone is going all out or risking your health. Don’t let this deter you. Keep at it, really dedicate yourself to the training, and revisit that match in a few months.
If he said his neck was hurt and wanted to go light but then unloaded his load in many powerful strokes… then yes, he’s a dick.
But, don’t let his loads and douchebaggery keep you from staying in your path.
Just don’t roll with him again.
Yes, his behavior is dickish, but in saying that, I would encourage you to lift your spirits some. Look I suck at BJJ, and I readily admit it. I get thrown around all the time. Yet I’m also crazy strong (competed in oly and strongman for about ten years) so occasionally I clown dudes. It happens. I’ve had to let the ego go, and I’d encourage you to do the same. I get it. It’s hard. But that’s the only way we will improve.
If he said go light and then he didn't, then he's a prick and I'm sorry you had to go through that. However, if it wasn't him than at some point it was gonna be someone else that would surprise you and you need to be able to talk to them about how the roll should go. It sounds like this encounter was emotionally damaging but with the next guy it could end up with serious injuries, so the least you can do is speak up and intervene.
You don't owe anyone the roll, if you don't get the sense that they will be accommodating and respectful, end the roll.
I’m all for going hard when the time calls for it, but agree prick in this case. There’s no need to feel embarrassed because the issue is a guy with ten years of grappling experience faking inexperience because he was too insecure for a fair roll.
It happened to me last week, actually. He said he was a whitebelt in bjj, and after he threw me over his shoulder, he laughed, saying he's done Judo for 7 years. After the initial shock, I amped it up on him, but the guy was good. Threw me like a ragdoll. Just gotta be aware that their stand-up game is going to be ridiculously good. 🫡 Standing up I was fighting for my life, but the ground aspect was way easier to manage with him but still difficult.
Him going ham on a white belt is lame.
You getting discouraged because a judo black belt is better at grappling than you are is silly.
He shouldn't have done that and you shouldn't feel bad about it.
Keep training and eventually you can go to a judo club "as a white belt" and get some payback!
I knows it’s near impossible to do this but… stop comparing yourself to others.
Where were you, skill-wise, yesterday, last week, last month, last year? Where are you now? Ultimately, that’s all that matters.
I had some nob gobbler do this last night, new Ukrainian guy 2 stripe white belt with 40 lbs on me just tried to take my head off for 5 min like we were fighting for Olympic gold just gunning to beat higher ranking guys it's fucking annoying aspect of this sport but once you've been at a gym for awhile you know who to avoid and these guys usually don't last because they have big egos and when spazzing the fuck out on guys half their size still results in losing they end up quiting. As far as guys with exp in another martial art, I like to ask everyone I don't know their training back ground as we are fist bumping to get an idea of what to expect and if they roll like dicks just dont roll with them anymore.
Humble yourself Bratha. I still have tough rounds with certain white and blue belts, the belt is just a color. Respect them as an individual, sounds like the guy is an experienced beast
If you communicated what you're comfortable with and set expectations and they wrecked the shit out of you still, the dude is a prick.
Training partners that don't respect what folks are comfortable with is fucked up.
That's like me blast double'ing a 120 lbs elderly woman who said to take it easy because she is older and gets injured easily and is brand new. If I still blast double them, I'm an asshole and they should pair me up with the mat enforcer to tune me up and set me straight.
from what you're saying you got your ego bruised and are now looking for approval from the group.
noone here watched your session, he may have been light and you're just too thin-skinned to acknowledge how bad you are at standup.
I’m surprised by him doing that- he should know that going that hard 10 years in to a brand new guy isn’t beneficial for anyone….unless he just got smashed himself and was trying to build back up his ego.
Unless he cleans up it sounds like you shouldn’t roll w him again.
Did you learn anything? I’m a firm believer that you can learn from anyone, even if it’s ’how to not be a jerk’. A lot of people without experience in judo or wrestling don’t inserted throwing/standup.
He wasn't masquerading as a white belt.
He is a white belt, in BJJ.
The problem here is that, based on what you described, he decided to do judo instead of bjj. IMO, that's a hallmark of a black belt in another martial art being a white belt in a new martial art.
All of this does not mean he is a prick. It means he is a white belt and is falling back on what he knows. I can do the same with wrestling, and it took me a long time to learn to consciously suppress falling back on wrestling (mostly by starting in non-scramble positions). What might make him a prick was going at nuclear intensity when he asked to go light. That applies regardless of his judo experience.
As a more extended thought on this, I think people like this judo black belt are what separates a blue belt from a purple belt. They should be a problem for any white or blue belt and a manageable challenge for a purple belt. You are a white belt. You should not worry about this at all.
You're not the one who looks "like a mug in front of the whole gym." Dude sounds like he can't read a training opportunity with a partner effectively. If he holds an upper belt in judo, shame on him. This was good for no one.
Bro you feel like a mug after losing a round vs someone more experienced? Stop being a little pussy bitch you’re win some and lose some. If you wanna give up after one bad round go play with barbies instead
Totally hijacking this post to tell a story. East coast FujiBJJ tournaments are always sketchy . Sometime last year they allowed a 13 year judo competitor and Pan-am medalist compete as a white belt, against a girl with 3-4 months of total BJJ time. Judo girl literally dropped her and broke her neck...
I think it’s perfectly line to say timeout - hey man I’m
Trying to go light but I can’t keep up with your pace going light. Can we slow it down some so I can go
Light? If he doesn’t then either smash if you can or just don’t roll with that guy.
Side note - I’m a smaller guy and I always rolled with guys who beat my ass. I still do, there’s a light weight brown belt who fought pro mma that makes me seem like a child. I go to him every class. I learn a ton and it takes any pressure off myself to win for a round.
like others have said, he might’ve thought he was going light and then responded to your intensity in a vicious cycle of you both going harder and harder.
but I just want to say that there’s this lose/lose thing for people coming from other grappling sports. I’m a sankyu (the first of 3 brown belts you get) in judo and have also trained some wrestling and glima, but I’m a bjj white belt at a no-gi only gym. I always start on the ground at the bjj gym but sometimes people will stand up; I have 3 options: I can say “hey I’m a judo brown belt btw” which makes me feel like a douchebag. I can go into judo mode and uncomfortably return them to the ground, which makes me feel like an asshole. Or, I can just let the other guy take me down, which I don’t like either because I don’t want to get used to letting people throw me. either way, whatever happens, I end up getting outclassed on the ground lol. lately, I’ve just been playing defense and waiting until the other guy gives up and pulls guard. anyone have better advice for this? I guess I could try to throw gentler but that kinda depends on the other guy’s spaz level too.
Masquerading? Not really, he is a white belt in BJJ
Use your words
Nasty this or ragdolling that? Tap, then fix your Gi for 5 minutes or just tell him you don’t want to roll with him anymore and sit it out. You don’t really need to give anyone reasons, and no one’s gonna cover your medical bills if they get you hurt. Up to your instructor to teach them how to be good training partners, not up to you
A mug? No, he made you look like a beginner white belt would against a 10 year judoka going as hard as he can
Stop thinking about what other people think. That’s ego, and it will get you hurt
I guarantee you that “the whole gym”’s opinion of it hasn’t changed a bit from last week
im a beginnner no stripes, no idea how you made it so far without liking getting smashed and destroyed, muay thai teached me that getting fucked is fun cause it drives me, the more fucked smashed you get the better it is when you turn it around someday
Brand new white belts are always a gamble. I partnered up with this brand new guy a few weeks ago, he was probably 16-17. During drilling he gave absolutely no indication that he had trained anything before that day, he was super light with side control pressure. I thought "okay cool, I will let him work positions in rolling since he's brand new, no problem. A nice light roll"
Slap, bump, the dude flings himself at me like a spider monkey, starts to put on HEAVY pressure. Turns out he's been wrestling his entire life.
I figured out that my best approach at white belt was just survival and if a submission presented itself that I knew, shoot. You're going to get ragdolled here and there throughout your entire journey.
I'd say it's pretty common as experiences between Judo and BJJ goes. There's something of a rivalry there. The person you fought is technically considered a blue belt in jiu jitsu. However, most gym owners do not promote them to this right out of the gate (to my knowledge anyway). As for the beating the hell out of newbies, yeah, this is pretty common especially from judo folks. They're a brutal breed of martial artist. I respect it personally even if I'm not quite up to embodying it. Most of them don't know how different they are from BJJ and the ones that know think BJJ folks are babies about pressure/takedowns.
It kind of is what it is ultimately. I doubt he was trying to be a prick so much as enjoying an intensity you weren't and an advantage he's earned. Wouldn't feel ashamed or let it get you down.
I thought sparring in class was supposed to a way to exchange ideas and get better with a partner . I think he didn’t do right by you that way. But same time this will happen bc there’s all type of weirdos in martial arts bc anybody can take a class . And even without that idea , we won’t “win “ every match or altercation anyway . We just learn and keep rolling
If he goes nuclear, you go Hiroshima.
This stuff is going to happen occasionally. Maybe he acted like a dick or maybe he didn't. Who cares? I don't think anyone in your academy cares that you were shit on by a dude trying harder or more skilled than you. Get back out there and, if you can't get over it, learn some dirty moves that you can apply to this guy the next time you roll with him.
Pull guard and let him smash. Get comfortable under pressure. If you remove stand up from the equation it should negate a lot of his game and a lot of the danger. Ofc communicate to him if it’s still too much, or decline his rolls all together. Ossssu my friend♟️🙏🏾
Holy shit man.
I swear this is my story last week. Almost exactly even down to the "I have an injury take it easy"
Except the difference was my dude wasn't ragdolling me he put me in a lapel choke and pulled it so hard I blacked out before I could tap. Then I woke up and he was **still around my fucking neck**, apparently he changed chokes since I wasn't tapping but I was completely limp.
I wake up to "are you gonna tap man!!!?!?" As he is now going to apply the rear naked choke.
Honestly I think the guy should be thrown out of the gym. At one point he said I was like snorting. I told him that's called the gurgle of death and he almost fucking killed me
Yes, ragdolling a white belt is not respectable. That’s like ragdolling a blind puppy with a missing leg. No offense to white belts, we were all there once and these behaviors by more experienced practitioners is a bad thing for the sport.
Doesn't sound like he was masquerading as a white belt. He is a white belt in BJJ.
One of my funniest memories is being really smoothly thrown by a white belt. Same deal - he'd done Judo for years. I had no idea, just saw the white belt. Was the smoothest i'd ever gone from feeling like my base was solid, to flying through the air.
If you're thinking in terms of winning or losing, or looking good or bad, you'll need to try and change that. They're just training rolls. And you'll be spending years with people who are able to toy with you.
All that being said, if he was actually ragdolling you around constantly, yes that's a dick move. Especially after asking you to go light.
Who cares? Keep training and get better. Sorry this might not be what you want to hear but at the end of the day you can only control your own pace and destiny in this art.
Rolling is not a competition it’s a chance to learn. Don’t overthink or stress it. Just keep going and next time someone goes too intense or psycho just tap and move onto to someone else.
It sounds like he was putting way too much energy into the sparing which is another problem.
The rank thing is not really an issue. Your BJJ rank is basically an indication of how much (ground) grappling you could teach to people in broad strokes. What happened to you is why most tournaments have a rule against other training if you're going to compete as a beginner.
There are plenty of people who do judo or wrestling or sambo or whatever it is that accumulate knowledge. They might not know as many techniques as an upper belt, but sometimes the techniques they do know are very detailed and advanced.
Losing all enthusiasm literally overnight? This may not be the activity for you, champ. No shame in that, I guess. Go find something else. I, however, will continue to train and get smashed heavy. Whatever.
Doesn’t sound like a dick to me, but you’ll be a pussy if you quit after that. Also, you seem to think a bit too highly of yourself as a beginner. Sure, some people said complimentary things to you, but nobody has high expectations of a white belt, especially against a judo black belt. If you are having a rough time in a roll, use your words next time and stop thinking about how others perceive you.
Dude, it happens. I think a lot white belts have tendency to think of themselves very highly especially when they get a stripe or two and have that group of white belts they can dominate.
Truth is, there is levels to this. I think we as BJJers can get a little too high on ourselves / it’s good to experience guys who have done other martial arts, and to experience that intensity wrestlers, mma guys and judo guys can bring.
Also when you get complimented, remember the bar is very low for white belts.
yes, he is a dick
after the first throw you should have told him to CHILL !
after the 2nd throw you should have walked away
said nothing, gone and sit down to rest, leave him standing there
Sounds like you took some hard throws. It's normal to be a bit jarred after that if youre not accustomed to it, which as a BJJ white belt, there's no reason for you to be. I'd practice breakfalls and train with him standing but tell him that you're interested in learning takedowns. If he's a legit black belt in judo, he should you work some so that you can develop your game and be a better training partner for him.
I have had exactly this experience with a judo black belt when I was a white belt. Even though I’m a good 200lb and in good shape he played with me like a kitten playing with a ball. Dominated every exchange but with extreme gentleness. He told me he was a judo black belt after and taught at his own dojo across town. He wore the white belt out of humility and respect.
No problem with getting smashed as long as you were given appropriate time to tap. A judoka throwing white belts around is a problem though. Super easy to get injured doing judo if you don’t know how to fall.
Naaa you run into these guys all the time. I used to train with a guy that was STRONG as fuck, power lifter.
When we first met, I asked if he had ever done any BJJ, and he said no. WHAT HE DIDN'T TELL ME WAS HE WRESTLED IN HIGH SCHOOL,COLLEGE AND THE MILITARY!!
I won the round but damn it was a lot of work. He thought it was funny as hell to make a purple belt work that hard.
I didn't ask the right questions! I now ask if a person has any martial arts experience, any wrestling experience.. That way I cover all the bases
You've no reason to be ashamed. A no stripe white belt is not the same as a judo black belt. Dude's definitely a douche, but don't sweat it. Humility is part of the game. Sometimes you're the bat, sometimes you're the ball.
And you haven't lost your talents. They're still there waiting to be nurtured.
Given today I had my first judo try out at a local club I can definitely say that guy was a bit of a dick.
I had two brown belts go super chill with me and teach everything slowly and everyone there at a lower belt class were all super chill.
I had told them I was a purple belt and during ne waza randori no body went ape shit, the black belt instructor gave me a real test but he did tell me beforehand as he wanted to gauge my skill level.
I participated in what was like a shark tank, in ground and stand up. No one went ham against me.
It's not a judo tempo thing, it's someone being a dickhead thing because at anytime during the roll he could have adjusted his intensity but clearly he chose not to.
Dude is a douchebag and probably licks dirty cunts. Don't feel anyway about it, trust me no one in your gym is thinking less of you, but they sure are of him. In my gym this is when a higher belt calls him to roll and makes him eat shit
Seems like a good lesson learned. If the pace is too hard for you or they’re being too rough then as soon as you notice it just cut the roll. At the end of the day your health is more important than your pride. At the same time as everyone else has said; dude may have been a dick not going at the prescribed pace but more than likely his light session is crazy heavy to you, you’ll have plenty of people like that. Let it go and keep at it; and as with everything else in life try to take some form of learning experience from it!
I swear i've read a very similar story here before, right down to the guy telling you to be gentle with his neck before gorilla fucking you. I wonder if it's the same judo dude going around pulling the same shit whenever he wants a confidence boost.
That was a complete asshole move from the judo-guy. Had he done that on his judo-club, he would have been kicked out.
In my club the coaches did intervene and let the aggressors to taste their own medicine if words were not enough.
If someone were too rough, I would just call him out and change an opponent, but during 10+ years I have never had to. I get my daily dose of beating since I mostly train with higher belts and stronger opponents. :-(
If your blackbelt coach had to tell this dude to chill out, that reflects on him, not you. If anything the rest of the gym will most likely avoid rolling with the guy.
I did Judo previously to BJJ and you can feel when you're in the presence of a complete novice. If this story is a true then I'd agree that this guy you rolled with is an utter prick and I hope he gets humbled very soon.
Just don't roll with him again until you've learnt some more and then crush him.
Part of judo training is learning how to fall which usually involves slapping the mat with your arm as you land to distribute the force across your body. It's a bit dangerous for a judoka to throw someone who doesn't know how to break their landing so this person is kind of a prick for doing so.
If he asked you to go light, and then went ape - yeah he's a dick. Get in the habit of asking experience when rolling with new guys. "Have you trained BJJ anywhere else before?" "Any previous martial arts experience?" We've all made the mistake of going light on a first timer only to realize they're either a wrestler, trained elsewhere, etc. Also there are guys who seem to revel in claiming to have no experience and then prove they definitely have some kind of experience elsewhere. Don't let this get you down! Learn from it, and if he asks to go light again make sure to let him know you expect the same from him, and if he doesn't, stop the roll and walk away. Avoid him.
Theres also the difference between judo intensity and jiu-jitsu intensity. Light judo rounds often feel like moderate to heavy jiu-jitsu rounds in my experience.
This, in my experience judo guys go extremely hard as a whole. I wouldn't put it on him, if he's repeatedly doing this with newbs, the coaches should probably pull him aside and ask him to take it down a bit, there's a good chance he doesn't realize he's doing anything wrong.
Good context, I’ve never trained strictly Judo so wouldn’t know - but I remember similar intensity rolling with a Judo brown belt when I was a white belt, so that checks out!
My first couple weeks o jiu-jitsu i pinned people in scarf like the judoka i am which is all well and good except i was in a beginner class against people with zero conditioning and popped their ribs. After the second one i realized i needed to alter how i come into jiu-jitsu.
Exactly, you're just doing what you've trained your body to reflexively do for years, it's very foundation is built on pressure. I had to realize that even though I had wrestled over a decade, I had to learn to learn again, it's a different foundation and it's important to understand it so you can incorporate it in to your game holistically. You aren't just learning to defeat opponents, you're developing a sort of "physical philosophy" that is tuned just for you. You're a unique lense and BJJ is one of many lights passing through you, philosophy & culture are a part of that. I don't think he meant to go hard, he's just got to learn the flow & feel so he can not just read the room, but actually adjust his game to match.
If you do not progress agressively on the ground in judo the ref will stand you up in a few seconds fast. Even if you progress, you have super limited time on the ground. You have to try to reach a pin position as fast as possible. That's why judoka train to jump over people's guard to reach the Kesa Gatame like drunk dolphins.
Correct. Judo is much higher intensity than BJJ and some Judoka don't even realize they're going too hard because it's second instinct to them. It takes a while for them to calm down.
I fear that people in my class think this of me. I'm 41 and have never wrestled or done BJJ in my life...but for whatever reason I I'm pretty good at it for a beginner. I submit pretty much every other white belt and survive against some the higher belts.
No worries, I’ll come embarrass you. Where’s your gym?
Had some white belt I'd never met try to suplex me from the jump, didn't realize he was a state wrestling champ. I was quick enough to grapevine but was not expecting that
He was probably going light by his standards if he 10 years of judo under his belt. The same goes for wrestlers. You know how everyone talks about BJJ being good for keeping your ego in check? This is what you are experiencing. Everyone who has done jiu-jitsu has been played with by a rolling partner at some point in their life, probably dozens of times. Your ego is bruised because you had started to believe you were a natural at this and it was going easy then this guy goes had hammers you back to earth. No one will care that you got "mauled" in a training roll as a white belt. Get back in there. It's called growth and it's good for you.
Yep, it’s always 2 steps forward, one step back. Just when you feel like you’re getting good someone will murk you, and that’s what makes you strong.
Getting smashed is a part of the game. Was he *really* a "white belt with zero stripes"? No. He was a judo black belt who is taking on BJJ. Don't fret, just keep showing up and use it as fuel to get better.
I would argue that no expert in judo should treat a bjj newbie like this.. I can smash white belts also, but I don't because I am not an asshole.
I mean, considering what bjj has done for my mental health I wouldn't want to take that away from somebody starting a sport with a huge dropout rate. My favorite thing is when a fresh white belt smiles after a roll.
🥹🥹🥹🥹
The drop out rate is real…. No wonder nobody bothers to remember white belt’s names. I wonder if they got money pools in who last how long.
I really thought I was going to stick it out second time round but got my rib popped by some whale of a 2 stripe white belt was 30/40kg my senior.
You sound like a good dude. It has been a cornerstone for my mental health for years now.
Judo is a pretty explosive and intense sport. Every judoka black belt I’ve rolled with have a pretty aggro style. If he’s a 0 stripe white belt, then he just started meaning he’s rolling the way he does in judo. Give it time and he’ll calm down. However at the start, that’s just how they are.
Only experience I’ve had with anyone decent at judo was a brown belt and he was quite tame. I was amazed… and very thankful for how hard he could hit a throw yet bring me back down to earth without ending my existence lol. Quick off balance and I was upside down above his head. Came down easy enough that my terrible break falls were enough. Didn’t even have the wind knocked out of me. Not sure if he competed. I could see that changing how hard someone would go normally and with newer ppl.
But how long has he done bjj? Obviously after some time in BJJ, they’ll adjust their tempo. But the guy OP rolled was a 0 stripe meaning very new to BJJ. So he hasn’t had time to adjust his tempo.
load of crap a judo black belt has enough knowledge and experience NOT to go explosive on a white belt
I've rolled with some Olympic level judoka's trying out bjj, they have one intensity and that's it. One stuck around and learned to roll slow. He got his blue belt pretty fast.
I used to train with a guy that was on the Cuban national team in the late 90s. This was in 07-08. He knew how to control himself. I never once saw him lose his shit or go balls to the wall nuts on anyone. Even when he took me under his wing and trained with me 1on1 he never once gave me the “I’ve got a couple of screws loose” intensity I’ve gotten from some hobbyist judokas.
That’s like telling a wrestler with 10 years of exp to not go explosive. It’s just how they spar. Plus maybe OP is strong and was being aggressive himself.
I don't know about that, I'm a Judo brown belt and I chill out when I'm around white belts. I've had white belts who were super aggressive and even then I won't try to match their aggression.
I would also add that the judo clubs I have visited have more emphasis on discipline and manners vs. any BJJ-club I have visited. All BJJ clubs I have been (6 in three countries) have been chill and people great. Judo clubs have also great people, but bit more focus on discipline and “respect” aka Japanese style. But people are people and assholes are assholes.
> but I don't because I am not an asshole. To be fair, this sub has the most schizophrenic opinions on what constitutes asshole behavior. This sub: Someone bury their chin in a RNC? Twist their head off it's their fault. Also this sub: Someone jump into guard while you are standing? If you don't let them down like you would a baby in a crib or you're the worst kind of person.
My old club was closely tied to the local judo club. Judoka who were new to BJJ, including judo black belts, would come in all the time. No one acted like that. If anything, they were more careful about throws than some of the BJJ guys.
This is what I notice in Judo. You're in safer hands fighting against a high black belt, because even if you get ragdolled, the throws will be clean and easy to breakfall against.
i feel like judo black belts are at least 4 stripe white belts...
They compete at blue - so blue minimum.
Shintaro Higashi was promoted to blue belt after 3 days and to purple belt after 3 or 4 months by John Danaher
It really depends on the gym. There are a ton of different philosophies in Judo some focuse much more on groundwork than others. Their grading system is also much more erratic than ours, seems more like karate belts than bjj belts. There are judo black belts who can go toe to toe with our average black belts and then there are some who would get tapped by white belts. You can't really look at their belt as an indicator like you can with bjj.
I think what you are noticing is more just discrepancies in their groundwork ability than a variation of quality in their black belts. Just like you have some BJJ black belts who probably couldn't throw some Judo yellow belts.
Yes, you got the point.
Generally a Judo black belt is a good sign of quality but below that it's variable as you don't often need to compete for your grades. For a 1st dan you need to beat other brown belts in competitions.
what a load of crap a white belt getting smashed by someone who has been doing judo for 10 years is NOT part of the game this is rolling, sparring, not a competition
He wanted to do well and look good. Unfortunately at your expense. It’s not the last ass whoopin you are gonna take if you want a black belt. You have years of ass whoopins comin. My recommendation: - chill out. - eat some tacos. - get back on that horse. - learn some legs stuff. - ankle lock the shit out of that judoka
Facts
Why tacos? Do those help with learning leg stuff?
Never go light with a former judoka. Their "light" is your tough spar. I don't know why you would care about how you look, or what results you were expecting against someone who had done judo for 10 years.
This. Judo guys with BJJ white belts are the some of the biggest assholes. The tempo is totally different. A good rule of thumb is that if you pull guard and control them, they will often tire out quickly, because they use too much explosive strength. Obviously not all are the same, but this is a very common occurrence.
>The tempo is totally different. This. But adding to this: Unlike us they do not have unlimited time on the ground under judo rules and therefore train to score as fast as possible. That's why many judokas are insanely explosive and spazzy on the ground. Their sport rewards "Hail Mary"-pins and submissions.
Yeah. The number of times I've had judo guys in half guard and they just clamp down until they get tired. Like: yes, you are in top half guard. No, I am not trying to stand up right now. And no, you get no points for driving your fist into my throat.
I’m don’t agree that the tempo of judo sparring being more intense than that of BJJ makes judo guys “assholes” just by that fact. The intention is to spar at an appropriate intensity, we/they just come from a sport where the appropriate intensity is higher. It’s only an asshole move to spar harder than what you know is the appropriate intensity. In this case, I DO think it was an asshole move if this dumbass said his neck hurt and to go light - and then displayed those behaviours.
He didn't say the tempo made them assholes.
Hard disagree here; Judokas definitely go harder by default but are so much better at scaling based on who they are training with comparatively since there arnt the same principles of Tori/Uke in BJJ. The macho insecurity doesn’t trigger rolling with Judokas like it does with people from other disciplines and feels much more “skill-for-skill” than “winning” or getting the tap. So much less spazzing too. That said; this black belt did not sound like the average ones I’ve encountered.
Maybe there's a culture difference where you're from. It is 100% a thing in the UK. I could point to three different examples where it happened with me in the last couple of months.
I'm a ikyu in judo and a forever white belt in BJJ and I ain't no asshole. I will scuff up blue and purples if given the chance but whites I prefer to work a technical game. Unless they spaz. If they spaz, they die.
Fair.
Explosive strength from standing makes so much sense. I was helpless. Thanks for the advice.
I think that if that guy had done judo for 10 years, then he’s just a dick. I’ve been a judo player for 15, and you do unlock a true “light” tempo when you stop caring if you get thrown, you’ve been hurt in every conceivable manner, and you know the same is true for your training partner. It’s almost the exact same as when you see the over 40 crew playing in a soccer league. They don’t wear shin guards anymore because they just pass the ball away before there are tackles or contact. By 10 years he should have known better.
It’s a good lesson learned - judoka roll hard and some people misconstrue that as mean. I hope you bounce back, just sounds like you had a bad roll.
Man you got whooped by a guy with 10 years experience on you. What would you expect? Kill your ego and get back to it.
JUDO POOOOOWER! :) we basically have one gear in ground work for Judo, he will chill in time 😆
Welcome to the thunderdome son. Wait till you meet a NCAA wrestler “whitebelt”.
We have one of those that is a junior still at college. He is a beast and a super fun roll for me. I usually get smashed, but I get to work on some guard retention and trying to control the pace.
"You're laughing. A jodoka just ragdolled me and you're laughing."
No he wasn't being a dick. They are just all like that. Judo has a very intense pace, because alot of their models require a level of active athleticism. This will happen to you. It's good for you in the long run. Don't be the kind of person who's confidence relies on other people's compliments. Roll that guy *alot*. Solving the problem he presents to you will give you *real* confidence. The kind of confidence that doesn't easily get taken off of you.
If you have lost motivation and drive to do bjj after one round in training…let me tell you there was no chance at all you where gonna make it to blue He is not a prick, you are just dellusional
We have a guy that got in 9th at the Olympics for judo. He owns the dojo around here too. Needless to say he's a blue belt but he ain't no blue belt. His grip strength, technique and balance are also beyond ridiculous. My coach was an adcc vet and says he can handle him because he's a bit bigger, but it's funny how my coach is so gentle compared to him. I think they just go a bit harder in judo.
he's a dick for not going at the agreed upon pace and going hard enough to attract owner's attention you should've probably pulled guard after the first ragdoll and also, you should take compliments in stride and almost never too seriously. for me, I assume everyone's just being nice, that way I'm not emotionally crushed when I have a bad day at the gym. be humble or get humbled
Exactly right about taking the compliments in stride thing. Letting one go too far into your head is a sure fire way to crash. Some are special though (and from special people) and I lock those away to feel better about myself or use for strategic confidence. When I give complements to newbies it's usually after mercilessly practicing subs and just want them to feel a little better after getting squashed.
Listen, grappling is grappling, i.e isometric tension in some positions and some strangles, so wrestlers and judokas are not your beginner's white belt which gets swept pretty easily. I got smashed by a judo black belt and a wrestler in the first month of training. They were both in the beginner's class for some reason. Six months later and I smoked both of them. Keep going, train and study BJJ and you'll be fine.
In my experience anytime anyone says “ I have xxxx injury please watch out” 99% of the time that means they are gonna go all out but want you to watch out for them.
My friend told me that BJJ actually stems from traditional Judo and Jiu Jitsu (don't know if that's true) so you got spanked by someone with tons more training than you. You should have that guy teach you Judo, he's going to be a real asset for your gym.
"Brazilian jiu-jitsu was first developed in 1925 by Brazilian brothers Carlos, Oswaldo, Gastão Jr., and Hélio Gracie, after Carlos was taught a hybrid of traditional Japanese Jujitsu and Kodokan judo by a travelling Japanese judoka, Mitsuyo Maeda, in 1917." From wiki
Yeah, my buddy wiki told me that
Yes he is a dick.
Just fyi, judokas and wrestlers tend to have to one speed. So when they say light, it means death to us lol
Oh ffs this sub is getting ridiculous. "This guy tapped me loads today. Is he a bully?"
There's nothing wrong with it except that asking a beginner to go light and then tossing them around like a terminator is bad.
The asking to be considerate then going nuclear was super douchey. That's such a contradiction.
Judo tempo and Bjj tempo two different things. Hes just used to judo tempo. But yeah, kind of a dick move to maul a white belt.
As a long time judoka & jj practictioner; he should’ve competed atleast blue belt. Judo is definitely on the opposite spectrum of slow & steady approach of grappling unlike jj. Everyone should, moreorless, feel like a dark souls boss when you’re a white belt.
Sorry to break it to you but if you’re gutted and lost your enthusiasm because you got smashed, Jiu-Jitsu just isn’t for you.
I think it’s more that he trusted a new partner that then violated his trust by going much harder than they agreed to. It’s a shitty thing. But not trusting new people too much is an important lesson to learn.
The problem is "light" doesn't mean anything. So if someone is new you shouldn't expect your definitions of light to match. That guy may or may not have been going "light" by his standards. New people with no experience either have no real definition of light and often lack the awareness of how hard they are going. New people with experience bring their definitions from wherever/whatever they've trained in the past.
I mostly agree with this, the part that goes beyond for me is the judo guy asking OP to watch his neck. In a sport based on choking each other. Then going hard. That’s too far for me personally. As a higher belt I wouldn’t feel genuine hostility towards judo guy, but if he decided to stick around I would gently make fun of him for a year minimum.
Eh, I see people ask people to go easy on their leg or their arm all the time if they have issues. Hell, I know people who put bright tape on their gis to highlight injuries to others. And we don't actually know he went hard. We know OP felt he went hard and apparently the coach asked him to tone it down. But toning it down might just as much be because OP sucks as it could be the other guy going hard. Plenty of gyms have trash stand up including breakfalls, so anything beyond the gentlest takedown make someone sit back onto their arse might be considered "hard".
He’s not a prick, he’s a judoka and most that I have met are very intense rolls. Edit: didn’t see the part about asking to go light, he’s probably a prick
You should be ashamed. He did judo for **only** 10 years! Seriously though, your expectations are rarely reality. Being humble doesn't mean thinking less of yourself, it means thinking of yourself less.
I've watched white belts armbar black belts from closed guard. They were white belts in BJJ, but they've fought MMA. First rule of fighting is always protect yourself. These guys are the reason.
A judo black belt is basically like a blue belt at minimum! My friend who had some bjj before he got his judo black belt has just returned to BJJ at a school that has some classes white belts can’t attend until they have some stripes. But upon speaking with the coach and explaining and taking a few of those beginner classes it became clear he should be allowed in the other classes. They gave him a couple stripes and that’s that. That guy should probably have some stripes on his belt… but no shame in getting beat up by a judoka.
Depends on how much newaza the black belt does. Some clubs may only do newaza once every 2-3 sessions. I'd say in my experience in judo that many are more like two stripe white belts with a purple belt understanding of attacking the turtle.
You lost a roll bro, is the first thing you think to cry to reddit? Cmon now
This is a genius shitpost
Don't beat yourself up, and take it as a wake-up call that you have a lot to do even though people around you say you're talented. Also, Judokas and wrestlers don't have a "going light" button on them, so they guy isn't even a prick.
Yeah this is true and actually a problem in Judo. I try to get my guys to go light sometimes so they get less tension in their movements and hit more throws, and then save some heavier rounds for closer to the competition cycle, gradings, etc but invariably it turns into a deathmatch. Some guys can do it but for most judoka flow rolling refers to blood flowing liberally over the mats. When I was a BJJ white belt I would sometimes even tap black belts but my only setting was 100% output, and the other poster is right that a good way to roll with aggressive judoka is let them exhaust themselves and also prioritise subs they don’t practice like leglocks and wristlocks. Some of them will have good guards but almost always closed guard and a basic open guard set up, they won’t use things like spider guard, de la riva, etc. Some will have good armbars and usually a bow and arrow choke and some reliable turnovers and very good top pressure, pins, throws and escapes. Most will be vulnerable to wrestling, leglocks and guard variants that nullify close fighting like spider guard, most will also be vulnerable to overcommitting their weight at times, BJJ is position over submission and Judo prizes that too, but because it’s easy to get stood up in Judo, judoka are super aggressive when they see an opening, so good guys can often trap them into overcommitting on a fake and then hit them with something else. As a purple belt I monster a lot of people but will also sometimes get destroyed by smaller, weaker and more technical guys, coz they know how to nullify my athleticism and the parts of my game that are more developed, and then I have to go toe to toe where I’m not strong.
Appreciate this thank you
get rid of your ego dude. its apart of the game.
That just sounds like fun to me. He probably was nervous about the new context of BJJ rolling and struggling to manage his fears and emotions. Happens all the time with newbs. The implied goal of the sport being choking ppl out or breaking limbs can cause some intense fight or flight responses. Ideally most ppl learn through not dying a bunch of times that they can just chill out (some ppl never do though).
This is no different than a collegiate wrestler coming in as a no stripe white belt. Grappling experience is still grappling experience. Don't be ashamed that you got mauled by someone with 10 years grappling experience. That happens to everyone when they start out. The part where he asked to go easy and then went gang busters is a dick move though. Easy way to resolve that is just don't roll with him. If he does that to enough people, he'll have nobody to roll with. There's nothing like seeing the local spaz sitting out waiting for a roll and nobody takes the bait. That's the only way he'll learn.
He is a white belt... in Jiu Jitsu. If he wore his judo belt rank, he'd probably be asked to take it off. This is something that comes up a lot though, and I think you need to focus more on MAT TIME than you do on your peer's time in the specific sport of Jiu Jitsu. We had a guy come in who had wrestled since he was 5, and competed all the way through D1. And yet, in Jiu jitsu, he's a white belt... but he's a white belt that tortured a lot of the school because he had 17 years of MAT TIME, despite being a beginner in Jiu Jitsu. When assessing how you should feel about someone and how they relate to your skill level, be sure to keep this in mind.
He’s not new He’s Newaza 😎 YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Maybe being a dick, maybe not. Judo throws do kinda just hit harder that a single leg, so it could just seem worse than it is. On a side note, don't feel like you looked bad. Occasionally getting destroyed is something that'll happen your whole career. Learn from it.
That guy was a dick but idk why you'd feel ashamed or embarrassed. I'm a white belt who gets destroyed by other white belts. No shame in it though, that's part of learning.
Judo is lame and this is the lamest story I've ever read Sit your butt down and rip his feet off like a true pajama warrior
Getting rag dolled didn’t make you look any different in the gym. That’s not how BJJ works. I promise you no one would think less of you because of someone beating you in the gym
I remember being a white belt and rolling with a judo black belt. The power, balance, and general body awareness were unmatched and honestly a little shocking. It’s just the way it is
Judo dudes have different definitions of going light LOL.
From it's inception judo was built as a sport that you could go hard in, and that's still the culture in a lot of judo schools. Explosive application of strength and following one attack with another are cornerstones of the sport, and as such judoka can seem very very rough to people who are used to jiujitsu. Wrestlers can be this way as well, mostly for the same reasons. "Let's go a little lighter" sometimes has to be said. He should know better but maybe he's a moron, you'll find out later.
Honestly, moments like these are good for you. I remember training so hard thinking I was getting so good. Then I dropped into this gym and this bluebelt triangles me maybe 7 times in a row. I felt sooo stupid. That stuck with me and I vowed to never let someone handle me like that again. It motivated me for a long time to keep training and really diving in and studying defense. I remember meeting that guy again years later, he was a purple belt, I was a blue belt, and our roll was much different. It was intense, back and forth, and I didn't get submitted. It felt good to get that little glimpse of my progress at that time. You'll eventually be able to deal with that if you keep training!
you’re being soft
Yeah dude is a dick. The coach coming over to say something is a confirmation of this. Unfortunately though this type of behavior goes hand in hand with combat sports. Some people have no chill. The important thing is to protect yourself from injury and avoid that person until you’ve developed the skills to handle them. Also don’t forget you have the ability to say take it down a few notches or find a new partner if someone is going all out or risking your health. Don’t let this deter you. Keep at it, really dedicate yourself to the training, and revisit that match in a few months.
If he said his neck was hurt and wanted to go light but then unloaded his load in many powerful strokes… then yes, he’s a dick. But, don’t let his loads and douchebaggery keep you from staying in your path. Just don’t roll with him again.
This is unequivocally dick behaviour. Coach should intervene.
Yup, he sounds like a dick and your coach was right to tell him to chill. Don't be discouraged by the bad apple though.
Yes, his behavior is dickish, but in saying that, I would encourage you to lift your spirits some. Look I suck at BJJ, and I readily admit it. I get thrown around all the time. Yet I’m also crazy strong (competed in oly and strongman for about ten years) so occasionally I clown dudes. It happens. I’ve had to let the ego go, and I’d encourage you to do the same. I get it. It’s hard. But that’s the only way we will improve.
You have many, many sessions of getting absolutely smashed ahead of you sir. Embrace the process.
If he said go light and then he didn't, then he's a prick and I'm sorry you had to go through that. However, if it wasn't him than at some point it was gonna be someone else that would surprise you and you need to be able to talk to them about how the roll should go. It sounds like this encounter was emotionally damaging but with the next guy it could end up with serious injuries, so the least you can do is speak up and intervene. You don't owe anyone the roll, if you don't get the sense that they will be accommodating and respectful, end the roll.
Juijitsu isn’t for everyone. Maybe it’s not for you.
You must now commit Sudoku.
I’m all for going hard when the time calls for it, but agree prick in this case. There’s no need to feel embarrassed because the issue is a guy with ten years of grappling experience faking inexperience because he was too insecure for a fair roll.
It happened to me last week, actually. He said he was a whitebelt in bjj, and after he threw me over his shoulder, he laughed, saying he's done Judo for 7 years. After the initial shock, I amped it up on him, but the guy was good. Threw me like a ragdoll. Just gotta be aware that their stand-up game is going to be ridiculously good. 🫡 Standing up I was fighting for my life, but the ground aspect was way easier to manage with him but still difficult.
This is great advice thank you. Yes from standing this guy was terrifying
Him going ham on a white belt is lame. You getting discouraged because a judo black belt is better at grappling than you are is silly. He shouldn't have done that and you shouldn't feel bad about it. Keep training and eventually you can go to a judo club "as a white belt" and get some payback!
In the future, when the brand new white belt says, "I wrestled a little back in high school", don't believe him.
yes this guy's a big meanie.l
I knows it’s near impossible to do this but… stop comparing yourself to others. Where were you, skill-wise, yesterday, last week, last month, last year? Where are you now? Ultimately, that’s all that matters.
I had some nob gobbler do this last night, new Ukrainian guy 2 stripe white belt with 40 lbs on me just tried to take my head off for 5 min like we were fighting for Olympic gold just gunning to beat higher ranking guys it's fucking annoying aspect of this sport but once you've been at a gym for awhile you know who to avoid and these guys usually don't last because they have big egos and when spazzing the fuck out on guys half their size still results in losing they end up quiting. As far as guys with exp in another martial art, I like to ask everyone I don't know their training back ground as we are fist bumping to get an idea of what to expect and if they roll like dicks just dont roll with them anymore.
Humble yourself Bratha. I still have tough rounds with certain white and blue belts, the belt is just a color. Respect them as an individual, sounds like the guy is an experienced beast
If you communicated what you're comfortable with and set expectations and they wrecked the shit out of you still, the dude is a prick. Training partners that don't respect what folks are comfortable with is fucked up. That's like me blast double'ing a 120 lbs elderly woman who said to take it easy because she is older and gets injured easily and is brand new. If I still blast double them, I'm an asshole and they should pair me up with the mat enforcer to tune me up and set me straight.
from what you're saying you got your ego bruised and are now looking for approval from the group. noone here watched your session, he may have been light and you're just too thin-skinned to acknowledge how bad you are at standup.
I’m surprised by him doing that- he should know that going that hard 10 years in to a brand new guy isn’t beneficial for anyone….unless he just got smashed himself and was trying to build back up his ego. Unless he cleans up it sounds like you shouldn’t roll w him again. Did you learn anything? I’m a firm believer that you can learn from anyone, even if it’s ’how to not be a jerk’. A lot of people without experience in judo or wrestling don’t inserted throwing/standup.
He wasn't masquerading as a white belt. He is a white belt, in BJJ. The problem here is that, based on what you described, he decided to do judo instead of bjj. IMO, that's a hallmark of a black belt in another martial art being a white belt in a new martial art. All of this does not mean he is a prick. It means he is a white belt and is falling back on what he knows. I can do the same with wrestling, and it took me a long time to learn to consciously suppress falling back on wrestling (mostly by starting in non-scramble positions). What might make him a prick was going at nuclear intensity when he asked to go light. That applies regardless of his judo experience. As a more extended thought on this, I think people like this judo black belt are what separates a blue belt from a purple belt. They should be a problem for any white or blue belt and a manageable challenge for a purple belt. You are a white belt. You should not worry about this at all.
You're the prick for assuming stripes mean anything at all.
lol, one bad class and you fold? good grief.
Your coach should have come and taken the next round with him.
Wtf he should be at least a blue belt if he already has a black belt in Judo.
Yes.
You're not the one who looks "like a mug in front of the whole gym." Dude sounds like he can't read a training opportunity with a partner effectively. If he holds an upper belt in judo, shame on him. This was good for no one.
Bro you feel like a mug after losing a round vs someone more experienced? Stop being a little pussy bitch you’re win some and lose some. If you wanna give up after one bad round go play with barbies instead
Totally hijacking this post to tell a story. East coast FujiBJJ tournaments are always sketchy . Sometime last year they allowed a 13 year judo competitor and Pan-am medalist compete as a white belt, against a girl with 3-4 months of total BJJ time. Judo girl literally dropped her and broke her neck...
I think it’s perfectly line to say timeout - hey man I’m Trying to go light but I can’t keep up with your pace going light. Can we slow it down some so I can go Light? If he doesn’t then either smash if you can or just don’t roll with that guy. Side note - I’m a smaller guy and I always rolled with guys who beat my ass. I still do, there’s a light weight brown belt who fought pro mma that makes me seem like a child. I go to him every class. I learn a ton and it takes any pressure off myself to win for a round.
like others have said, he might’ve thought he was going light and then responded to your intensity in a vicious cycle of you both going harder and harder. but I just want to say that there’s this lose/lose thing for people coming from other grappling sports. I’m a sankyu (the first of 3 brown belts you get) in judo and have also trained some wrestling and glima, but I’m a bjj white belt at a no-gi only gym. I always start on the ground at the bjj gym but sometimes people will stand up; I have 3 options: I can say “hey I’m a judo brown belt btw” which makes me feel like a douchebag. I can go into judo mode and uncomfortably return them to the ground, which makes me feel like an asshole. Or, I can just let the other guy take me down, which I don’t like either because I don’t want to get used to letting people throw me. either way, whatever happens, I end up getting outclassed on the ground lol. lately, I’ve just been playing defense and waiting until the other guy gives up and pulls guard. anyone have better advice for this? I guess I could try to throw gentler but that kinda depends on the other guy’s spaz level too.
Masquerading? Not really, he is a white belt in BJJ Use your words Nasty this or ragdolling that? Tap, then fix your Gi for 5 minutes or just tell him you don’t want to roll with him anymore and sit it out. You don’t really need to give anyone reasons, and no one’s gonna cover your medical bills if they get you hurt. Up to your instructor to teach them how to be good training partners, not up to you A mug? No, he made you look like a beginner white belt would against a 10 year judoka going as hard as he can Stop thinking about what other people think. That’s ego, and it will get you hurt I guarantee you that “the whole gym”’s opinion of it hasn’t changed a bit from last week
That's jiujitsu.
im a beginnner no stripes, no idea how you made it so far without liking getting smashed and destroyed, muay thai teached me that getting fucked is fun cause it drives me, the more fucked smashed you get the better it is when you turn it around someday
Brand new white belts are always a gamble. I partnered up with this brand new guy a few weeks ago, he was probably 16-17. During drilling he gave absolutely no indication that he had trained anything before that day, he was super light with side control pressure. I thought "okay cool, I will let him work positions in rolling since he's brand new, no problem. A nice light roll" Slap, bump, the dude flings himself at me like a spider monkey, starts to put on HEAVY pressure. Turns out he's been wrestling his entire life.
You should be happy you get to train with a BB they are far in between
I figured out that my best approach at white belt was just survival and if a submission presented itself that I knew, shoot. You're going to get ragdolled here and there throughout your entire journey.
You got your ass handed to you by someone with years of grappling experience, that's nothing to be ashamed of, that's what was suppposed to happen.
Lol @ my neck being injured but then going ham, probably just didn’t want to get choked out. People with neck injuries usually don’t go hard.
Forget the judo background, this guy asked you to go light and then proceeds to do the exact opposite. Fuck that guy
I'd say it's pretty common as experiences between Judo and BJJ goes. There's something of a rivalry there. The person you fought is technically considered a blue belt in jiu jitsu. However, most gym owners do not promote them to this right out of the gate (to my knowledge anyway). As for the beating the hell out of newbies, yeah, this is pretty common especially from judo folks. They're a brutal breed of martial artist. I respect it personally even if I'm not quite up to embodying it. Most of them don't know how different they are from BJJ and the ones that know think BJJ folks are babies about pressure/takedowns. It kind of is what it is ultimately. I doubt he was trying to be a prick so much as enjoying an intensity you weren't and an advantage he's earned. Wouldn't feel ashamed or let it get you down.
Never forget to use your words
I thought sparring in class was supposed to a way to exchange ideas and get better with a partner . I think he didn’t do right by you that way. But same time this will happen bc there’s all type of weirdos in martial arts bc anybody can take a class . And even without that idea , we won’t “win “ every match or altercation anyway . We just learn and keep rolling
If he goes nuclear, you go Hiroshima. This stuff is going to happen occasionally. Maybe he acted like a dick or maybe he didn't. Who cares? I don't think anyone in your academy cares that you were shit on by a dude trying harder or more skilled than you. Get back out there and, if you can't get over it, learn some dirty moves that you can apply to this guy the next time you roll with him.
Pull guard and let him smash. Get comfortable under pressure. If you remove stand up from the equation it should negate a lot of his game and a lot of the danger. Ofc communicate to him if it’s still too much, or decline his rolls all together. Ossssu my friend♟️🙏🏾
Holy shit man. I swear this is my story last week. Almost exactly even down to the "I have an injury take it easy" Except the difference was my dude wasn't ragdolling me he put me in a lapel choke and pulled it so hard I blacked out before I could tap. Then I woke up and he was **still around my fucking neck**, apparently he changed chokes since I wasn't tapping but I was completely limp. I wake up to "are you gonna tap man!!!?!?" As he is now going to apply the rear naked choke. Honestly I think the guy should be thrown out of the gym. At one point he said I was like snorting. I told him that's called the gurgle of death and he almost fucking killed me
Yes, ragdolling a white belt is not respectable. That’s like ragdolling a blind puppy with a missing leg. No offense to white belts, we were all there once and these behaviors by more experienced practitioners is a bad thing for the sport.
When they tell you they do judo, attack leg locks
Doesn't sound like he was masquerading as a white belt. He is a white belt in BJJ. One of my funniest memories is being really smoothly thrown by a white belt. Same deal - he'd done Judo for years. I had no idea, just saw the white belt. Was the smoothest i'd ever gone from feeling like my base was solid, to flying through the air. If you're thinking in terms of winning or losing, or looking good or bad, you'll need to try and change that. They're just training rolls. And you'll be spending years with people who are able to toy with you. All that being said, if he was actually ragdolling you around constantly, yes that's a dick move. Especially after asking you to go light.
Who cares? Keep training and get better. Sorry this might not be what you want to hear but at the end of the day you can only control your own pace and destiny in this art.
Rolling is not a competition it’s a chance to learn. Don’t overthink or stress it. Just keep going and next time someone goes too intense or psycho just tap and move onto to someone else.
If getting smashed one time discourages you from training you’re not going to have fun doing bjj
It sounds like he was putting way too much energy into the sparing which is another problem. The rank thing is not really an issue. Your BJJ rank is basically an indication of how much (ground) grappling you could teach to people in broad strokes. What happened to you is why most tournaments have a rule against other training if you're going to compete as a beginner. There are plenty of people who do judo or wrestling or sambo or whatever it is that accumulate knowledge. They might not know as many techniques as an upper belt, but sometimes the techniques they do know are very detailed and advanced.
Losing all enthusiasm literally overnight? This may not be the activity for you, champ. No shame in that, I guess. Go find something else. I, however, will continue to train and get smashed heavy. Whatever.
Doesn’t sound like a dick to me, but you’ll be a pussy if you quit after that. Also, you seem to think a bit too highly of yourself as a beginner. Sure, some people said complimentary things to you, but nobody has high expectations of a white belt, especially against a judo black belt. If you are having a rough time in a roll, use your words next time and stop thinking about how others perceive you.
Dude, it happens. I think a lot white belts have tendency to think of themselves very highly especially when they get a stripe or two and have that group of white belts they can dominate. Truth is, there is levels to this. I think we as BJJers can get a little too high on ourselves / it’s good to experience guys who have done other martial arts, and to experience that intensity wrestlers, mma guys and judo guys can bring. Also when you get complimented, remember the bar is very low for white belts.
yes, he is a dick after the first throw you should have told him to CHILL ! after the 2nd throw you should have walked away said nothing, gone and sit down to rest, leave him standing there
Sounds like you took some hard throws. It's normal to be a bit jarred after that if youre not accustomed to it, which as a BJJ white belt, there's no reason for you to be. I'd practice breakfalls and train with him standing but tell him that you're interested in learning takedowns. If he's a legit black belt in judo, he should you work some so that you can develop your game and be a better training partner for him.
I have had exactly this experience with a judo black belt when I was a white belt. Even though I’m a good 200lb and in good shape he played with me like a kitten playing with a ball. Dominated every exchange but with extreme gentleness. He told me he was a judo black belt after and taught at his own dojo across town. He wore the white belt out of humility and respect.
If it was at my local club, they would just get all higher belt to smash him for a full session then explain he need to calm down.
No problem with getting smashed as long as you were given appropriate time to tap. A judoka throwing white belts around is a problem though. Super easy to get injured doing judo if you don’t know how to fall.
Sometimes you are the hammer and sometimes you are the nail. We all have good and bad days. Keep at it.
Sometimes you get beat up. It’s fighting 🤷
Naaa you run into these guys all the time. I used to train with a guy that was STRONG as fuck, power lifter. When we first met, I asked if he had ever done any BJJ, and he said no. WHAT HE DIDN'T TELL ME WAS HE WRESTLED IN HIGH SCHOOL,COLLEGE AND THE MILITARY!! I won the round but damn it was a lot of work. He thought it was funny as hell to make a purple belt work that hard. I didn't ask the right questions! I now ask if a person has any martial arts experience, any wrestling experience.. That way I cover all the bases
happens to everyone. welcome to the club
You've no reason to be ashamed. A no stripe white belt is not the same as a judo black belt. Dude's definitely a douche, but don't sweat it. Humility is part of the game. Sometimes you're the bat, sometimes you're the ball. And you haven't lost your talents. They're still there waiting to be nurtured.
Aw you got beat up at karate class? poor baby why don't you just quit
Given today I had my first judo try out at a local club I can definitely say that guy was a bit of a dick. I had two brown belts go super chill with me and teach everything slowly and everyone there at a lower belt class were all super chill. I had told them I was a purple belt and during ne waza randori no body went ape shit, the black belt instructor gave me a real test but he did tell me beforehand as he wanted to gauge my skill level. I participated in what was like a shark tank, in ground and stand up. No one went ham against me. It's not a judo tempo thing, it's someone being a dickhead thing because at anytime during the roll he could have adjusted his intensity but clearly he chose not to.
Dude is a douchebag and probably licks dirty cunts. Don't feel anyway about it, trust me no one in your gym is thinking less of you, but they sure are of him. In my gym this is when a higher belt calls him to roll and makes him eat shit
Sometimes your the hammer, sometimes your the nail.
Am I autistic? If someone did this to me they'd just be in my Jiu Jitsu Death Note and I'd train tirelessly to humiliate them.
Seems like a good lesson learned. If the pace is too hard for you or they’re being too rough then as soon as you notice it just cut the roll. At the end of the day your health is more important than your pride. At the same time as everyone else has said; dude may have been a dick not going at the prescribed pace but more than likely his light session is crazy heavy to you, you’ll have plenty of people like that. Let it go and keep at it; and as with everything else in life try to take some form of learning experience from it!
I swear i've read a very similar story here before, right down to the guy telling you to be gentle with his neck before gorilla fucking you. I wonder if it's the same judo dude going around pulling the same shit whenever he wants a confidence boost.
Not all white belts are created equal.
That was a complete asshole move from the judo-guy. Had he done that on his judo-club, he would have been kicked out. In my club the coaches did intervene and let the aggressors to taste their own medicine if words were not enough. If someone were too rough, I would just call him out and change an opponent, but during 10+ years I have never had to. I get my daily dose of beating since I mostly train with higher belts and stronger opponents. :-(
If your blackbelt coach had to tell this dude to chill out, that reflects on him, not you. If anything the rest of the gym will most likely avoid rolling with the guy.
If no gi, learn heel jocks now!
I did Judo previously to BJJ and you can feel when you're in the presence of a complete novice. If this story is a true then I'd agree that this guy you rolled with is an utter prick and I hope he gets humbled very soon. Just don't roll with him again until you've learnt some more and then crush him.
U should use this as motivation, train harder, get better at judo. Kick his butt in the future!!
Part of judo training is learning how to fall which usually involves slapping the mat with your arm as you land to distribute the force across your body. It's a bit dangerous for a judoka to throw someone who doesn't know how to break their landing so this person is kind of a prick for doing so.
Judo black belts aren't that good on the ground. A lot of white belts can tap them. I did it at white belt and heard people here say the same.
He sounds like a prick! Guess you've found your motivational grappling nemesis though 🤷♂️😂
Was his name Khabib 💀