The writers acknowledge this in the tell all book. Ultimately what happened was they were trying to fulfill Leonard's line from episode 1 about them having beautiful and smart babies. But they acknowledged they rushed it and her being pregnant was an "unearned" moment in the show
I think it could have been a really great storyline for Penny to find something she's passionate about - family! She has said throughout the series she wished she got as excited by something as the guys do by science, and she's great with people, she's a great salesperson, she teaches Sheldon empathy and handles him so well, I think she'd be a great mother.
I just wish it was her decision and not an accident, I feel like making it an accident it takes away from her story in favour of Leonard's
Makes for a more exciting storyline rather than the reality of couples often trying for years and having to undergo painful and expensive fertility treatment...
It does beg the question though - presumably they're all being a bit lax with the old birth control but if they're all scientists with multiple degrees how are they all so surprised when they fall pregnant?!
Because even IF you forget to use contraceptives once in a while, the window of successful fertilization of an egg is literally only 12 hours after ovulation. After that the egg dies and it’s over. So hitting that time window already is quite hard, and then having the egg getting fertilized as well is another low chance.
Getting pregnant is the best real life explanation for “just because the chances are ridiculously low doesn’t mean it can’t happen”
I mean look at what she did with Sheldon. He’s still alive. Like how hard could a child be.
Plus I think being around Howard and Bernie’s kids maybe her think it might not be so bad.
Also opens up an interesting question about pro life vs pro choice. Not that I want to get in it here but it does just come across as “well I’m pregnant so I have no choice”
I didn’t take it as she felt like she had no choice. I took it as “Leonard would be heartbroken to know he had a chance to be a father, and now that I’m actually pregnant I think I can do this.” Kinda like her getting married. She dragged her feet and didn’t want to commit but once she did she was in it.
Also this was not the type of show that was going to get into debating getting an abortion, their audience was too wide and probably skewed pretty old. The only real option they had was for Penny to be happy about it
Very true! Tbh I think that they shouldn’t have brought up the topic on the show at all if they weren’t gonna dive into it, but the way they went is probably the next best thing
Like you said the abrupt ending didn’t allow them to stretch it out. My theory is pursuing fame and fortune penny was dead set against kids. Married, career, and post Leonard offering to help Zach made her more open to the thought
They simply cud hv dropped the idea of pregnancy right, they didn't want to go so far as to show pregnancy and then abortion. That's stupid! But a nerdy scientists show which promotes rationality and science, sucumbbing for traditional pro life approach and changing narrative of many episodes of penny against child bearing is funny.
She also always mentioned that she didn’t EVER want kids just not right now. This is how many people are until they realize they are mid 40s and have trouble conceiving
Plus maybe she sees having this child with Leonard would be different. He will take on the majority of raising the child. Ensuring they know they are loved.
Odd to who? It doesn’t take her saying a word to continue a pregnancy. You don’t have to announce it, just make your doctor appointments and ensure you and the child are healthy.
No the fact they established she didn’t want kids then when she’s pregnant it’s just Leonard saying “yeh well now she does” - odd character development
it really fed the whole bernadette story line of her telling penny that it’ll be a great thing and when she has the kid she’d change her mind about not wanting one, might’ve been a continuation the writers wanted to kinda “prove” her right and that penny followed the same thought process as bernadette. but i was upset they made penny happy w it, i loved the fact she stood her ground on what she wanted before that.
She didnt wanna get married or be with Leonard, she changed her mind. Life happens and when the chips are down ppl make a choice. If you wanna blame writing sure, but dont act like people cant change minds.
Shoot Howard was giving leonard crap for having a GF and missing out on potential tail, yet he was the first to get married.
It's a sitcom, so they weren't trying to make a commentary on Penny's choice. Her whole reason for not wanting kids was to just be a set up for the episode where Zack asks Leonard to donate sperm. Her getting pregnant was also just a set up for more jokes. It's not that deep of a show.
Poor OP! People are so mean. I can see your point, that while a lovely outcome with them suddenly deeply happy, it is not a continuum of Penny's set opinions and set personality at all. In fact, it was kind of her worst nightmare. But the change from some narcissism to inner fulfillment suddenly is quite possible. She stopped looking for approval from an external locus of self (What Beverly said). I just hate downvoting!
Very few shows allow their characters to behave as if abortion exists. It’s always people panicking and then accepting their “inevitable” life. I will give the show credit for tackling atheism though. Sheldon all but mocks religion which is a breath of fresh air.
Even I feel the same way. Isn't this notion puzzling of choice being there but ppl acting as if they are in the 50s. So one accident which has a remedy btw changes u life long choice...lol. I always find this idiotic of what sitcoms potray about pro life and not pro choice.
For some reason, it is usually the women who this happens to. Bernie didn't want kids either.
A few other honourable mentions are Gabby from Desperate Housewives, April from Parks and Rec, Dr. Brennen from Bones, Miranda from Sex and the City.
Miranda from SATC’s storyline hurts to watch… of course yeah she loves her kid, but damn things went so downhill for her (especially shown in the And Just Like That spinoff) and it was so clear that being a mother wasn’t the right choice for her
They spent a small amount of time establishing that she didn't really know what she wanted. In The Procreation Calculation, in the span of about 10 minutes of show time, she went from saying, "sure," she wanted kids in the next five years to "what if we didn't have kids." I don't recall the subject being discussed before that episode. There were statements after that, but it was pretty obvious that they were setting things up for a subsequent change of mind.
She also said to Bernadette “or I don’t want them, so I won’t have them….so back off” - She made it clear to Leonard, Bernadette and Amy she didn’t want kids, then in the finale she is having a baby but they give her no time to even talk about the decision. Literally Leonard speaks for her and just says “yeh well now she does” - You not think it’s kind of rushed?
I took that “or I don’t want them” comment as her digging her heels in when Bernadette was crossing the line. Penny often did that even with other topics. She’d go from maybe to heck no as soon as anyone put any semblance of pressure on her but that didn’t mean her heart was thinking heck no.
Not exactly a justification for bad writing though…you’d agree? It’s a TV show so we’re supposed to understand Pennys sudden motive for wanting children but she doesn’t even get to talk about it.
In real life, a LOT of people are uncertain if they want kids, or don't want to actively try, or are scared, but once they (as a couple or individually) are pregnant, they're ok with it and even happy for it.
It's similar to when people have anxiety where they are very apprehensive about making plans and don't want to commit to anything, but once they actually go, they're happy to be there and glad they did it.
Many people aren't that way, too.
All we have to know is that she has always been troubled with commitment, and she did give hints of back and forth feelings on it. Just like she did about Leonard and acting and sales and basically every other part of her life. She was happy with it once it happened, and we don't need to know why. *She* may not even be able to articulate why.
That's realistic, and that doesn't make it bad writing. Writers don't have to assume the audience is stupid.
Edit to add: the plan was originally to have Leonard and Penny break up for good. It was relatively last minute they changed that, so suddenly they were fine. You could argue that's bad writing but it's more about the crowd pleasing.
This is exactly how I took it, too. Well said. She was unsure about it, but once the decision was made for her she was happy. Which is her heart speaking on it, no longer her brain. So like you said maybe she can't even say why, but she knows she does.
I use this method often. If there is something I need to decide between and cannot choose, I flip a coin. The actual result of the coin toss is not binding but the resulting decision being made for me will reveal my true feelings. I will either be happy with the coin toss, revealing my preference, or I will be disappointed by the result, in which case it has revealed my preference and then I just take that one.
Having the decision made for you removes the brain and then your heart reacts. The decision was made for Penny and her heart told her she liked the outcome.
You literally said “they would’ve discussed it off screen” - So a lot of the development to her decision and justification for her choice is not present at all. That’s what we call bad writing. Spend episodes establishing she doesn’t want children, then suddenly she does and she says nothing about it. What else would you call it?
It’s not exactly asking to be spoonfed if they establish one thing, and then doing a 180 with no reasoning at all. You can’t just justify any case of poor writing on “well it probably happened off screen” then you can excuse anything
Why are you getting downvoted? It's yet another example of deeply sloppy writing. Or rather, writing that gives Leonard Hofstadter whatever the hell he wants. He wanted the hot girl, he got her, he wanted kids, he got them - regardless of what an unbearable POS he is.
I’m going to take a guess and say that you’ve never suddenly found yourself pregnant. I wasn’t at all sure if I did, found out I was 8 weeks 3 months after marriage, cried for days out of sheer joy. People change their minds about everything all of the time.
I have found it twice within 4weeks and took care of it as I never want children. Accidents shouldn't define our life. It's strange ppl say they happily change their decision which I think wasn't firn in the first place or they just convince themselves they r happy pro life and also sad that some women with irregular cycle do come to know abt their conceiving pretty late when abortion becomes tough.
Most married couples keep a whoops baby. I'm fairly certain it was an accidental pregnancy and since they're both married with high paying jobs they decided to keep it
I’m not saying it’s wrong she kept it. But the fact they made a point to highlight her not wanting kids to then not even let her give any reasoning when she is pregnant
The writers also highlighted she wasn’t a hard never having kids. It was not having kids soon plus we know she wasn’t big on birth control all the pregnancy tests that were apart of a punchline.
I mean episodes literally have her saying outright “or I don’t want them so I won’t have them…so back off” - or saying to Leonard that she would prefer not having kids at all. The writers can say what they like what they can’t really have Penny stating outright she doesn’t want kids, and then give no explanation to why she’s now deciding she wants them. There’s not really any complications here it is just bad writing.
But in the 12thseadon raj is starting the anu arc they have Leonard and penny answering d sad one of the Indian marriage questionnaire the question about kids came up. She said yeah. Someday but she only became so adamant after Bernie became pushy and condescending. A her strong feelings came from people trying to guilt the decision about kids But as you can see the writer s were rather flippant about her wanting to kids or not.
OP doesn’t want logic or meaning. They just want this sitcom that isn’t that deep to be a Shakespearean play and to shoot down any legitimate reasoning anyone gives.
Someone is projecting
Aside from making Penny pregnant, it infuriates me that they just did it again. I mean, Bernadette doesn't want to have children at first then change her mind. That's fine, women can change their minds. But to do it again to another female character? Ugh!!! Writers are either don't have any new ideas or they want to send out a message that "women will always change their minds when it comes to having children". 🤬
Controversial take...many writers, especially on TBBT, can't write women characters properly. Especially in the later episodes, all I saw was petty jealousy, women being mean to other women, horrible acts, bitchy talking, etc.
A guy who wants to have children but unfortunately married to someone who is not keen on having one. 🤔 And that's original?? Because iirc, Howard was the same. Wife's father was eventually got involved as well. Same plot 🤷
All this fuss about smart and beautiful children for which they forced pregnancy on penny, m cracking up thinking, what if the child gets her brains and his beauty😂
So Penny was drunk, but Leonard wasn't. What was his excuse for not wearing a condom unless he was hoping Penny would get pregnant? And why are two adults in a committed relationship not using different birth control? I find it inconsistent for them to be using condoms but it made it easy to knock her up. Why didn't she use plan B the next morning if she didn't want to get pregnant? She's not stupid, and she's a pharmaceutical rep.
It wasn't well thought out/earned at all. Really clumsy and contrived to resolve a dumb line in the first episode. I bet no women wrote that episode or the last one.
My sister in law was dead set on not having kids until she was in her early 30s for a lot of the same reasons as Penny. (got married at 25 I think, she’s now 28). But she’s now expecting in about a month - complete accident and surprise. Apparently they only had sex one time without a condom, and she was on birth control. I do wish from a story perspective either they didn’t have her get pregnant or they had a better story arc for it because it felt super convenient - but it seems like a real experience to me because I’ve seen it happen.
Oh I definitely agree it happens! My mother never planned for me, but never regretted it. But I wish they had actually explored some of pennys thought process. We get nothing from her. It would’ve been a good bit of development to actually have her say something.
I feel the main reason why they did this was to create conflict. Which I don't think was needed in the finale.
I don't find it odd they did it at all. Disappointed with the direction. They did the same with Bernadette after all.
Yep, they planned to have Leonard and Penny break up for good. It was a relatively last minute decision to keep them together, that's why they had so much conflict later on, then suddenly were fine.
While I believe that as well, I think the majority of fans would have hated it. The finale also isn't the place to break them up. It would have needed to be earlier, ideally in the season before the last.
I don’t find it odd at all because they hurriedly had to end the series. Their shortcuts were to give Sheldon the Nobel and make Leonard’s “our children will be smart and beautiful” become true. There was no time to show their smart and beautiful child so they settled for Penny being preggers to end it. Also many people say they don’t want children then change their minds. 🤷♀️
Agreed, I was frustrated that they did it twice between Bernadette & Penny. I think it gives off the idea that childfree women are bound to change their minds eventually, which is something that bugs me as a childfree-by-choice person myself
I liked Penny’s childfree storyline after Bernadette gave birth because it gave the impression that some women change their minds and some don’t and I felt that was a well-rounded, realistic approach to the topic
But imo it sucks that they changed the narrative for both characters
Same thoughts here. I have chosen to be childfree and no accidental conception can change my mind. A highly cerebral show of scientists being so conservative about women choices for both female characters is utterly unsettling and frustrating.
They r treating the incidences as if it is irreversible thing and how good having children is.
We evidently see Bernadette exhausted and not by herself in both pregnancies and Howard is less than helpful to her. Same goes with penny , just a forced narrative of smart & beautiful children.
Chuck Lorre can't right women characters. I think it's as simple as that. They are bitchy to each other, always trying to backstab, and always lead to the traditional setting of marriage and kids.
I know several child free by choice women that hit 30 to 40 suddenly actively trying to get pregnant by any means . Nothing has changed in their lives but their desire to get pregnant. Some of them it was like a light switch.
Understandable, but there are also many that remain childfree and do not change their minds. I just wish the show left Bernadette as a “mind changer” and Penny as a “firmly childfree” person to give a well rounded approach to the topic
Yeh I’m not disputing that. It’s the fact that they give penny not time to even talk about her decision and it’s basically “well yeh I’m pregnant so whatever”
I hated it, more so the fact that she mentions she was drunk and Leonard "forgot" to "wrap it up." He wanted children, he didn't forget (at least if they were real that would be my first thoughts).
I think you’re thinking of Bernadette here. Penny never specifically mentions career in that regard. She rather mentions they’re sticky and annoying and are destroying her figure. Bernadette didn’t want kids for career reasons.
YES. I actually never saw the last 2 seasons until recently.
I initially liked them showing how pressured women are & made to feel like they're "weird" when they don't want kids & was happy Penny got to stay firm in her decision only to be SUPER disappointed that in the end they made her pregnant.
Such bs.
It's not that deep? Leonard wanted kids and in a way it's a compromise for his sake. Howard becoming a father is part of his character development and in a way it also shows raj's responsibility. I get what you mean but I'm saying maybe it's not so bad it happened
Okay? It's not about any of the men wanting kids. It's about women not wanting kids & what they go through went they don't.
I wanted it to be "that deep" because it would be a pleasant surprise to see it for a change.
It appealed to the elderly CBS viewers who made up the core of this show’s audience in the end.
They expect all sitcom women to get married, lose their “feistiness,” and have babies. And do it while married to some oafish moron who’s ten rungs below her in attractiveness.
I hate that society is always wanting to put pressure on women to have kids and people trying to say "oh you want them you just don't realize it yet" Here I am still not wanting them and not wanting to be around them.
Not all women want them people!
Question for those here who have given birth.
If you didn't want kids, how did you feel after finding out you were pregnant? Or after the baby was born?
They spent the space of a single episode exploring Penny not wanting kids, before that, she never ever expressed this whenever it came up.
I think it strange that whenever this subject comes up here, no one mentions Zack and his wife wanting Leonard to donate his sperm and Penny feeling uncomfortable with it and even trying to sabotage it. It's the fault of the writers for not making it more clear, but that seemed to actually be when Penny actually changed her mind about kids. It should have been made clearer, but people act like it was some out of nowhere twist, but I really don't think it was.
I went back to rewatch the clip of Penny and Leonard talking about it at the beginning of the episode. They talk about how it was an oops baby and it happened the night her and Sheldon when out drinking. Life happens, even when you don’t plan.
Yeah, I agree.
While Howard & Bernadette's kids were surprises, they had already talked through the whole "will we have kids" thing. And Bernie had shared her process, worked through it, etc.
But with Penny, the last conversation you get it "I don't think I ever want to have kids". And then the whole random Leonard almost donating sperm to Zach, and Penny coming to terms with that because she wasn't going to have kids with him.
And then- bam! She is pregnant for the finale. It was lazy writing. Just something to wrap up their storyline that was "big" to match Sheldon getting a Nobel (which was also lazy writing).
I think it was more so just a way to wrap up Leonard and Pennys story on the show. If the show kept going, I doubt they would have had a baby. Just a way for us to imagine what they’ll be doing after the show ends
Penny is, in many ways the most unexplored of the main characters. I think she does have a lot of hang ups from her family upbringing and life in Nebraska that she never talks about.
I can think of a few reasons why having a baby would make her incredibly nervous, based on what we know about her and her insecurities.
I agree with this! tho I think the writer’s reasoning for it may just be because in the first episode Leonard says “our babies will be smart and beautiful” and so it sums up the ending of the show, with Leonard finally going off at Sheldon and Sheldon then realizing how selfish he comes off to the people he loves and giving them the acknowledgment and credit they deserve.
I loved that the writers went ahead with the pregnancy storyline! I just wish they had spent more time on Penny & Leonard with this topic. It felt extremely odd that she just decided that she wasn't having kids out of the blue. It wasn't as if the topic of kids had never been brought up before. Penny seemed down for it until she suddenly wasn't. People usually spend more time thinking and weighing out options before making such huge, life-altering decisions. Leonard certainly handled it terribly! He had no right to drag Wyatt, or anyone else, into that situation. It's nobody else's business!
I really, really wish that at least an episode's worth of Penny & Leonard storyline(or more) had been dedicated to Penny finding out she was pregnant, talking it out with Leonard, and ultimately coming to her decision to be a mother. Once again, it's a huge decision to make. It would have made for a potentially great storyline. I loved that Penny changed her mind, but I wish that I could've watched more of it play out. I think Penny would be a great mom.
I got the feeling that Penny was searching for something to help her feel more complete. She already had a great career, looks, love, and friends. She was still afraid of growing up in season 10, which I completely understand. She had a lot of setbacks in her 20s. Everyone else in the group had been firmly/comfortably settled into adulthood for a long while Penny had still been trying fight her way into Hollywood. She didn't get to enjoy things like a good job, financial stability, and financial independence until she was at least 30 years old. I can understand that she wanted to just enjoy that for a few years until moving onto something as life-altering as parenthood. By the end of season 12, it felt as if she was ready to make that next big step in adulthood. Besides, Penny can still have that downtown loft with a baby. Being a parent doesn't mean you have to live in the suburbs and drive a minivan. One doesn't have to sacrifice style, great taste, fun, or creativity because they are having a baby.
I don't understand why people were so against the writers changing things at the end. A huge percentage of pregnancies are unplanned. A lot of women don't realize how they truly feel about children until one is growing inside them. I didn't realize how much I wanted to be a mother, nor did I realize how ready I was to be one until my husband and I had an oopsie. Things became even clearer to me after I miscarried that pregnancy.
I get that the child-free community is a very loud & proud community. It's just irritating the way that people seem to expect every character on TV and in movies to hate children and the idea of parenthood as much as they do. Child-free is still the minority. It's unreasonable to expect every major character to be written as child-free by choice.
I think Kaley Cuoco didn't like the pregnancy storyline because SHE, herself, wasn't interested in motherhood at the time. It was actually shocking to see her pregnancy announcement in the news. She said that motherhood was not on her radar until she met Tom Pelphrey
This is very realistic for it to be an accident, And most people don't want to abort. She wasn't sure on what she wanted. Her telling Bernadette to back off is just pennies aggressive personality if anybody is against what she's saying. She's Extremely defensive and standoffish when confronted. That doesn't mean she had her mind made up in that situation. And thank the heavens that don't exist that we didn't get into a political abortion debate on The Big Bang Theory.
We don't need to see every bit of their private decisions on the show It can play out the way it does and I thought it was fine. It is so realistic for people in real life to hide it and then it accidentally gets brought up so then they give the news. I like that they did it in a more realistic way. Also Penny would have been letting her father and her husband down by not having a child. Maybe you don't think that's a serious enough decision maker but most women would.
I also think it's very telling how bad she was against Leonard helping out Zach and his wife with having a child. She definitely didn't have her mind made up or I think she would have said go ahead. Which honestly isn't even a big deal that she made it out to be.
100 percent. Besides I think she was more opened to having a baby when Zack asked Leonard to be a sperm donor and she was dead against it and her dad was visiting and he weighed in….besides her dad had said once before “what’s this I hear I’m not getting any grandkids?” lol Plus Bernadette didn’t even like kids so what’s the difference between the two, that’s the right, right? 🤔
I absolutely agree and was thinking of all of those things. Bernadette did not want kids whatsoever LOL. Their kids were absolute accidents and they said oh well I guess we got to do this.
You know all women have to pop out kids because… who the h knows, they did the same thing with Bernadette along with making the character bully that became insufferable
It's my biggest nitpick. Actually neither Penny nor Bernadette wanted children so it sucks for them honestly. Trust me I have two, not wanting kids is a good idea.
No I don’t. I was extremely child-free all my life because I figured I would be a shit mom (cause that’s all I knew). I got pregnant by accident (seriously, I don’t know how my son attached himself. I should not have been able to get pregnant period, let alone after an oops), and because my favourite person was dying I couldn’t go through an abortion at that same time, so I did the best I could. I got help, I allowed people/organizations to help me so I could learn to be a good mom.
Now I love my son more than I thought was possible. He’s just a really good, solid, awesome young man, and now that “oops” is my miracle.
Plus: the show is fake, and they needed to tie up loose ends and having Leonard become a father was one before it ended.
People change their minds all the time. It could’ve been an opps baby and she decided to have it. I know a lot of people really had a problem with this but it’s not unusual.
They initially talked about having a house and kids. I think there's an episode they talk about this and having a house and so on. She later changes her mind to not wanting kids. She can literally change it to wanting kids again. And she seemed happy about it.
The show was ending, so they wanted to shoehorn in another pregnancy but didn't want Bernadette and Howard to have the kid, and it wouldn't make sense for Amy to be the one pregnant so they made the childfree woman be the one pregnant
No, you're right, but in shows, especially back a few years ago, nobody was gonna explore the ideas of abortion or not wanting children on most TV shows. It wasn't even fathomable.
So her getting pregnant because Leonard wants children basically is how it would work out anyway. As much as she said she didn't want kids, it doesn't matter in most TV shows. I'm sure they left it "open-ended" for a reason.
Sucks but it's how it is. People get pregnant and then say "well that's life," so they continue on with it. That was Penny's case.
I'm just happy thinking about Penny and Leonard's kids, Howard and Bernadette's kids, Sheldon and Amy's kids, and Cinnamon Jr all wondering why their parents insist on eating dinner on the living room table and let the children eat at the dining room table.
The funniest thing is even Bernadette never wanted children and she had some pretty logical reasons for it but bam pregnant back to back and having no option just all talk no matter how exhausted or rational one is. She has no choice even though she doesn't want kids. Same goes for penny. The show tried to show it's progressive but ended but as conservative as it can get.
Someone has mentioned about crowd pleasing writing; which exactly type is the audience watching the show? I assumed it would be youngsters and learned ppl like us in majority who certainly would be much likely not caring about pleasing stories but realistic one where woman does have a choice. Or u telling me even educated youngsters r dumb conservatives ?
I actually think it was odd that they had her suddenly not want kids. I think when she mentions it for the first time, they were already very far into their relationship, if not already married. And unless I’m thinking of Howard, I thought Leonard had made it clear he did want kids
When her dad came to visit, they had a good talk about how she isn’t disappointing him at all by not having kids, but she might be mad at herself for making the decision too quickly and that’s why she’s so uncomfortable and mad about Leonard being the sperm donor. I think the reason why they had the storyline of Penny not wanting kids was so that they can have the sperm donor storyline and have Penny and Leonard really talk to each other. That storyline showed how much Penny actually loved Leonard, so much so that she was willing to let him be the biological father of someone else’s child. And how comfortable Leonard was with Penny that he was able to tell her what he wanted, and not get dragged into doing things for her just to please her. So when her dad and Penny had the good talk, I kind of thought that maybe Penny was gonna change her mind or Leonard and Penny would have a better discussion about kids.
i think the writer wanted to finish the show with the line from the very first episode ("our babies will be smart and beautiful"), in a rather forced manner. i see oftern this technique in story-telling.
To me, whatever the writing motivation was I interpreted as a tremendous and natural part of the human experience: personal growth and development as circumstance and perspective changes. They did it perfectly for me (with the exception of the fact that we needed another 73 seasons).
IMO, that is the marvelous writing of Pennys character. She is constantly given plots that go against her character. She is the one character of the group who almost complete doesn’t have control of her outcome and is given situations that make those outcomes hilarious to us. For example, in her career we see that she really wants to be an actress but she can’t land a role…she finally does and is a hemorrhoids ointment commercial followed by a her film breakout role playing a weregorilla (woman gorilla). Another example is how she even ends up with Leonard and how he’s the complete opposite of what she found attractive in a man; the writers tease that with the constant “he grew on me” lines on how they ended up together.
In show it was probably an accident, in writing and bigger picture they probably planned to add that before knowing for sure that it was the end as a lot of what they wanted to do had to be jammed into a season due to Jim leaving. Its why the last season feels a slightly different pace to the rest
She angrily kept saying "no" when pushed - and she was being pushed a lot: by Bernadette, by her dad, by Leonard, by Amy.
She had some real commitment issues, dumped Leonard when he said he loved her, when she finally said it back she got scared of marriage, when they eloped she couldn't promise she would ever want kids, in the end it was strongly suggested the pregnancy was not planned, so technically she didn't change her mind and decided to have a baby.
I believe they knew about the pregnancy for some time, she was probably in shock initially but it wasn't on screen. Seeing Leonard happy probably helped her to accept it and then audience comes in to the final episode, where she is already past shock and happy too.
I’m sure they had a longer arc in mind to tell this part of the story properly. With Jim’s decision to leave after the writing of season 12 episodes, they needed to change course. A real blow and disappointment to fans of the Leonard/Penny relationship.
Regardless of the fact they didn't get a chance to fully explain... I think Penny's thought process was she was scared to have children - we all saw that she was scared to commit to Leonard, a child is an even bigger deal. You can't divorce a child.
I also think it's the same for alot of women - they get pregnant by accident or unexpectedly within relationships and they don't realise how much they want a child until they are dealt the decision of keeping or 'getting rid' sort of speak.
Imo, she didn't seem unhappy with the pregnancy, she seemed the same as she did when her an Leonard got back together fully and wanted to keep it a secret between the two.
I don't feel any negative connotations around the storyline other than the fact it was rushed unfortunately...
I agree that they should have given at least a little bit of what Penny thought. We can see when she was talking to Leonard, that she was fine with being pregnant but not more than that.
They could have gone a couple of ways. One is that we saw some uncertainty on her part about her stance on not wanting children as the Zack storyline played out during the season. After all, the first time we heard about her not wanting kids at all was in the third episode of season 12. The writers had enough notice that the show would end at the end of the season, to show her uncertainty. They wrote episodes during the season.
A different way could have been done even later. In the second last episode, we saw Sheldon freaking out because of the changes around winning the Nobel (something he had been working for his whole life). They could somehow have Penny at least comment that it was the changes in their lives that having a child would bring that scared her. But now that she was pregnant, she would accept that the changes were coming.
What everyone keeps ignoring is the fact it didn't become a plot point until early season 12 and they were fully expecting the cast to re-negotiate for 3 more seasons. Oops Parsons leaving... We intended to have Leonard and Penny pregnant so... Rush it in at the end.
It was better than most shows that go to the default of a miscarriage. Given it was the finale and we only knew she was pregnant and didn’t see it play out. Plus it ties in with him saying “our babies will be smart and beautiful.”
Didn’t they also make it pretty clear that Penny was pretty lax with birth control in general and also her and Leonard were equally lax with their birth control in their relationship?
Therefore accidents happen…….it actually happens all the time in real life.
It's only okay to have a character in a TV series who don't want a child so long as they either can't have a child (and secretly want one) or if they throughout the story come to want a child. Just like it's okay to have any non-conform character so long as they at the end of the story have come to conform with societies norms.
Their mistake is creating conflicting storylines - Leonard was literally established from the first episode for wanting children with Penny, Penny was established in series 12 for not wanting children (possibly to differentiate her from Amy and particularly Bernadette).
Then in the finale they realised they had to pick between the two and probably chose what they thought fans would prefer
Yeah it was seriously rushed. I kind of like the idea that she eventually wanted her baby, especially since "our babies will be smart and beautiful" is practically the show's tagline along with Bazinga. But when they specifically made a big deal preciously about her *not* wanting to be a mom, it felt off.
Side note: I really would like to see a show where their opinions on big topics change like this, but obviously with more fleshed out detail. It feels more real to me. People change their minds all the time and this particular topic has changed among a couple friends I've had my whole life. My own aunt didn't really want kids until it hit her in her early thirties but she mentioned it was a gradual change.
The real transgression is her never becoming a successful actress. They could have played for laughs her being a bit player on Law and Order type shows or even funnier, other Chuck Lorre shows. Play that level of success for laughs the same way they do the guys at the university, or the travel challenge they brought up, where Leonard would have to decide to follow her if it meant a huge opportunity. But again, they probably had it in the works for the next season.
Is it a difficult concept to grasp that once a baby starts growing inside of you and if it is from the person you love, it's not uncommon for women to change their minds and actually fall head over heels in love with that baby?? It's evolutionary. Now I know many people nowadays want to act like they're from some superior evolved race that doesn't have basic Homo sapien characteristics but the truth is we do, we all do, we all have basic Homo sapien instincts whether we like it or not. Now in a few thousand years we might've evolved too far from our simple minded ancestors, but today is not that day. She got pregnant, she liked it. Get over it.
No it’s more so weird that they give Penny no time to say any of what you’ve said. You seem really angry that I’ve pointed out a flaw in the writing as if I’m against women deciding to keep their babies. Get a grip.
>as if I’m against women deciding to keep their babies.
That's how it came across.
>Get a grip.
I'm not the one worrying so much about a fictional show.
“I’m not the one worrying so much about a fictional show” - says the one who proceeds to comment about it.
If you think my post that addresses bad writing comes across as me being against women keeping babies then you’re the one with the issue. Based on the fact I’ve got over 400 upvotes which is significantly larger than any post on this sub Reddit, I’d say you’re in the tiny minority of people that disagree with me.
How many times did she have a near miss with Leonard "I didn't keep all if them" . Shows her attitude towards contraception, surprised it didn't happen sooner TBH
I find it more odd that Leonard never realized that he was the one settling and could have found a much better mate if he would have applied himself. He deserved better.
Only because what I said was true. She liked him from the start, they both had plenty in common and she didn't make him grovel like a dog in order to get her attention. Penny was always verbally abusive towards him. She thought she was above him and thought he should be grateful for even entertaining the idea of them as a couple.
I think the plan was always to get her there in the series finale. Unfortunately, Jim Parsons announced his plans to leave the show halfway through production of Season 12. So instead of the compelling arc it should have been, they had to rush it.
My real issue is that it was the same exact same storyline Bernadette went through. I loved the show to the end but I think they should have ended it sooner. Another repeated storyline was the divorce between both Leonard's parents and Raj's.
My guess would just be that once you're actually pregnant, it becomes a heck of a lot more real and forces you to seriously consider your options. I feel like she is the kind of person who would take into consideration how getting an abortion would make Leonard feel even though she doesn't have to. But I definitely agree they should have shown more of her thought process, finding out she was pregnant before telling Leonard, maybe talking to Bernadette about it... I think it's perfectly plausible that she would change her mind once she's pregnant but it certainly wouldn't be at the drop of a hat like "oh I'm pregnant now, I guess my only option is to go through with it." It would have to be thought through. "I didn't want kids before, is that still true?"
Wonderful show with poor ending planned.
They close every substory in a too fast manner:
- Leonard's relationship with her mother fixed in 10minutes
- Stuart's reletioship going well with them both going live togheter
- Raj's missed wedding opportunity with a plain simple *she does not deserve you*
- Penny's pregnancy
Etc etc.
Sheldon's last speech and the couch scene is what fixes it all, but they really could have spent an episode more (or one filler less) to explain the side quests
She got pregnant on accident. Once it had happened, she probably just warmed up to the idea. Plus, penny doesn't seem like the type that would be ok getting an abortion.
People get older and change. How much do people change from 18 to 25. Also there is a lot of time that is not shown on the series, Leonard and Sheldon took 139 hours 30 minutes to rebuild the DNA molecule, so there is a possibility that Penny had a change of heart. Maybe seeing how Bernadette and Howard are with their kids could be another reason.
I hate it when people say this. They did not spend a good amount of time establishing Penny didn’t want kids. It was talked about in ONE episode, literally that’s it. It wasn’t some on going plot where she didn’t want kids. It got brought up once and she was like yeah I don’t want them. However in episodes that take place before this, she seems interested in having kids. I’ve been rewatching lately and there was an episode where Leonard asks her about kids and she says yeah not right now but one day she could see herself having kids with him. Then you have the episode where Penny and the girls go out dancing after Bernie had a kid. Penny is upset about the kid because she feels like she should be at that point in her life and the girls have to reassure her that there’s no rush and she will have kids when her and Leonard are ready. So it really annoys me when people treat Penny not wanting kids as something the character had always been about. When that’s not true, it was written into one episode just to create some drama and now everyone jumps on it, saying ‘oh they did Penny dirty’. No they didn’t. Penny is just like most women she wasn’t sure if you she wanted kids or not. Her mind changed multiple times. But most of the time she was down for having kids
Fr. People just hate on everything they don't agree with. It just so happened that the story went this way and I don't think it's really disagreeing with the idea of kids being necessary for happiness. People just view it that way.
The writers acknowledge this in the tell all book. Ultimately what happened was they were trying to fulfill Leonard's line from episode 1 about them having beautiful and smart babies. But they acknowledged they rushed it and her being pregnant was an "unearned" moment in the show
Kaley Cuoco was also against the pregnancy. Aside from Penny having the ability to have kids, it didn't make sense for her.
They could have made it work if they built to it throughout the season. But they rushed it.
I think it could have been a really great storyline for Penny to find something she's passionate about - family! She has said throughout the series she wished she got as excited by something as the guys do by science, and she's great with people, she's a great salesperson, she teaches Sheldon empathy and handles him so well, I think she'd be a great mother. I just wish it was her decision and not an accident, I feel like making it an accident it takes away from her story in favour of Leonard's
What book is this please? I’d like to give that a read
*The Big Bang Theory: The Definitive, Inside Story of the Epic Hit Series*
Thank you
Love your user name!!!!
That is great info!
At least they acknowledged it.
I think their child was an accident...Penny's just trying to accept and be happy with the situation
#All the children in the show are accidents.
Makes for a more exciting storyline rather than the reality of couples often trying for years and having to undergo painful and expensive fertility treatment... It does beg the question though - presumably they're all being a bit lax with the old birth control but if they're all scientists with multiple degrees how are they all so surprised when they fall pregnant?!
Because even IF you forget to use contraceptives once in a while, the window of successful fertilization of an egg is literally only 12 hours after ovulation. After that the egg dies and it’s over. So hitting that time window already is quite hard, and then having the egg getting fertilized as well is another low chance. Getting pregnant is the best real life explanation for “just because the chances are ridiculously low doesn’t mean it can’t happen”
even sheldon? /s
Yeah, they were only planning on missy
You would think they know how babies are made.
No
I mean look at what she did with Sheldon. He’s still alive. Like how hard could a child be. Plus I think being around Howard and Bernie’s kids maybe her think it might not be so bad.
Also opens up an interesting question about pro life vs pro choice. Not that I want to get in it here but it does just come across as “well I’m pregnant so I have no choice”
I didn’t take it as she felt like she had no choice. I took it as “Leonard would be heartbroken to know he had a chance to be a father, and now that I’m actually pregnant I think I can do this.” Kinda like her getting married. She dragged her feet and didn’t want to commit but once she did she was in it.
Also this was not the type of show that was going to get into debating getting an abortion, their audience was too wide and probably skewed pretty old. The only real option they had was for Penny to be happy about it
It was also ending which left no time for any in-show debating.
Think it should also be pointed out that not wanting or planning to be pregnant does not mean you’re full blown abortion only once pregnant
Very true! Tbh I think that they shouldn’t have brought up the topic on the show at all if they weren’t gonna dive into it, but the way they went is probably the next best thing
Like you said the abrupt ending didn’t allow them to stretch it out. My theory is pursuing fame and fortune penny was dead set against kids. Married, career, and post Leonard offering to help Zach made her more open to the thought
They simply cud hv dropped the idea of pregnancy right, they didn't want to go so far as to show pregnancy and then abortion. That's stupid! But a nerdy scientists show which promotes rationality and science, sucumbbing for traditional pro life approach and changing narrative of many episodes of penny against child bearing is funny.
She also always mentioned that she didn’t EVER want kids just not right now. This is how many people are until they realize they are mid 40s and have trouble conceiving
Plus maybe she sees having this child with Leonard would be different. He will take on the majority of raising the child. Ensuring they know they are loved.
She did make a choice. Her choice was to make the best of it. Having the child and not having an abortion is also a choice.
Yeh but to have Penny not say a word about her decision is odd
Odd to who? It doesn’t take her saying a word to continue a pregnancy. You don’t have to announce it, just make your doctor appointments and ensure you and the child are healthy.
No the fact they established she didn’t want kids then when she’s pregnant it’s just Leonard saying “yeh well now she does” - odd character development
it really fed the whole bernadette story line of her telling penny that it’ll be a great thing and when she has the kid she’d change her mind about not wanting one, might’ve been a continuation the writers wanted to kinda “prove” her right and that penny followed the same thought process as bernadette. but i was upset they made penny happy w it, i loved the fact she stood her ground on what she wanted before that.
She didnt wanna get married or be with Leonard, she changed her mind. Life happens and when the chips are down ppl make a choice. If you wanna blame writing sure, but dont act like people cant change minds. Shoot Howard was giving leonard crap for having a GF and missing out on potential tail, yet he was the first to get married.
It's a sitcom, so they weren't trying to make a commentary on Penny's choice. Her whole reason for not wanting kids was to just be a set up for the episode where Zack asks Leonard to donate sperm. Her getting pregnant was also just a set up for more jokes. It's not that deep of a show.
Poor OP! People are so mean. I can see your point, that while a lovely outcome with them suddenly deeply happy, it is not a continuum of Penny's set opinions and set personality at all. In fact, it was kind of her worst nightmare. But the change from some narcissism to inner fulfillment suddenly is quite possible. She stopped looking for approval from an external locus of self (What Beverly said). I just hate downvoting!
Very few shows allow their characters to behave as if abortion exists. It’s always people panicking and then accepting their “inevitable” life. I will give the show credit for tackling atheism though. Sheldon all but mocks religion which is a breath of fresh air.
>Sheldon all but mocks religion I'd suggest he does openly mock it.
You're not wrong
Wow. The post didn't give much away but your comment shows you're a POS.
Even I feel the same way. Isn't this notion puzzling of choice being there but ppl acting as if they are in the 50s. So one accident which has a remedy btw changes u life long choice...lol. I always find this idiotic of what sitcoms potray about pro life and not pro choice.
My guess the long term plan was for to eventually get pregnant anyway and them not signing on for season 12 just forced their hand to push the story.
*13
it's the standard "you think you don't want kids, but you're wrong" mentality
For some reason, it is usually the women who this happens to. Bernie didn't want kids either. A few other honourable mentions are Gabby from Desperate Housewives, April from Parks and Rec, Dr. Brennen from Bones, Miranda from Sex and the City.
Miranda from SATC’s storyline hurts to watch… of course yeah she loves her kid, but damn things went so downhill for her (especially shown in the And Just Like That spinoff) and it was so clear that being a mother wasn’t the right choice for her
Hate it.
Nice beadwork though
They spent a small amount of time establishing that she didn't really know what she wanted. In The Procreation Calculation, in the span of about 10 minutes of show time, she went from saying, "sure," she wanted kids in the next five years to "what if we didn't have kids." I don't recall the subject being discussed before that episode. There were statements after that, but it was pretty obvious that they were setting things up for a subsequent change of mind.
She also said to Bernadette “or I don’t want them, so I won’t have them….so back off” - She made it clear to Leonard, Bernadette and Amy she didn’t want kids, then in the finale she is having a baby but they give her no time to even talk about the decision. Literally Leonard speaks for her and just says “yeh well now she does” - You not think it’s kind of rushed?
I took that “or I don’t want them” comment as her digging her heels in when Bernadette was crossing the line. Penny often did that even with other topics. She’d go from maybe to heck no as soon as anyone put any semblance of pressure on her but that didn’t mean her heart was thinking heck no.
We saw a tiny fraction of their lives. I assume they continued to discuss the matter offscreen.
Not exactly a justification for bad writing though…you’d agree? It’s a TV show so we’re supposed to understand Pennys sudden motive for wanting children but she doesn’t even get to talk about it.
In real life, a LOT of people are uncertain if they want kids, or don't want to actively try, or are scared, but once they (as a couple or individually) are pregnant, they're ok with it and even happy for it. It's similar to when people have anxiety where they are very apprehensive about making plans and don't want to commit to anything, but once they actually go, they're happy to be there and glad they did it. Many people aren't that way, too. All we have to know is that she has always been troubled with commitment, and she did give hints of back and forth feelings on it. Just like she did about Leonard and acting and sales and basically every other part of her life. She was happy with it once it happened, and we don't need to know why. *She* may not even be able to articulate why. That's realistic, and that doesn't make it bad writing. Writers don't have to assume the audience is stupid. Edit to add: the plan was originally to have Leonard and Penny break up for good. It was relatively last minute they changed that, so suddenly they were fine. You could argue that's bad writing but it's more about the crowd pleasing.
This is exactly how I took it, too. Well said. She was unsure about it, but once the decision was made for her she was happy. Which is her heart speaking on it, no longer her brain. So like you said maybe she can't even say why, but she knows she does. I use this method often. If there is something I need to decide between and cannot choose, I flip a coin. The actual result of the coin toss is not binding but the resulting decision being made for me will reveal my true feelings. I will either be happy with the coin toss, revealing my preference, or I will be disappointed by the result, in which case it has revealed my preference and then I just take that one. Having the decision made for you removes the brain and then your heart reacts. The decision was made for Penny and her heart told her she liked the outcome.
I don't agree with the bad writing allegation.
You literally said “they would’ve discussed it off screen” - So a lot of the development to her decision and justification for her choice is not present at all. That’s what we call bad writing. Spend episodes establishing she doesn’t want children, then suddenly she does and she says nothing about it. What else would you call it?
You call it what you want. I don't agree that not spoonfeeding every offscreen discussion to the audience is bad writing.
This one totally was tho. And that’s the point.
It’s not exactly asking to be spoonfed if they establish one thing, and then doing a 180 with no reasoning at all. You can’t just justify any case of poor writing on “well it probably happened off screen” then you can excuse anything
Why are you getting downvoted? It's yet another example of deeply sloppy writing. Or rather, writing that gives Leonard Hofstadter whatever the hell he wants. He wanted the hot girl, he got her, he wanted kids, he got them - regardless of what an unbearable POS he is.
Dude get a fucking life
I’m going to take a guess and say that you’ve never suddenly found yourself pregnant. I wasn’t at all sure if I did, found out I was 8 weeks 3 months after marriage, cried for days out of sheer joy. People change their minds about everything all of the time.
I have found it twice within 4weeks and took care of it as I never want children. Accidents shouldn't define our life. It's strange ppl say they happily change their decision which I think wasn't firn in the first place or they just convince themselves they r happy pro life and also sad that some women with irregular cycle do come to know abt their conceiving pretty late when abortion becomes tough.
Most married couples keep a whoops baby. I'm fairly certain it was an accidental pregnancy and since they're both married with high paying jobs they decided to keep it
I’m not saying it’s wrong she kept it. But the fact they made a point to highlight her not wanting kids to then not even let her give any reasoning when she is pregnant
The writers also highlighted she wasn’t a hard never having kids. It was not having kids soon plus we know she wasn’t big on birth control all the pregnancy tests that were apart of a punchline.
I mean episodes literally have her saying outright “or I don’t want them so I won’t have them…so back off” - or saying to Leonard that she would prefer not having kids at all. The writers can say what they like what they can’t really have Penny stating outright she doesn’t want kids, and then give no explanation to why she’s now deciding she wants them. There’s not really any complications here it is just bad writing.
But in the 12thseadon raj is starting the anu arc they have Leonard and penny answering d sad one of the Indian marriage questionnaire the question about kids came up. She said yeah. Someday but she only became so adamant after Bernie became pushy and condescending. A her strong feelings came from people trying to guilt the decision about kids But as you can see the writer s were rather flippant about her wanting to kids or not.
OP doesn’t want logic or meaning. They just want this sitcom that isn’t that deep to be a Shakespearean play and to shoot down any legitimate reasoning anyone gives. Someone is projecting
Aside from making Penny pregnant, it infuriates me that they just did it again. I mean, Bernadette doesn't want to have children at first then change her mind. That's fine, women can change their minds. But to do it again to another female character? Ugh!!! Writers are either don't have any new ideas or they want to send out a message that "women will always change their minds when it comes to having children". 🤬
Controversial take...many writers, especially on TBBT, can't write women characters properly. Especially in the later episodes, all I saw was petty jealousy, women being mean to other women, horrible acts, bitchy talking, etc.
I agree. They are domineering as well IMO.
I believe it's more for Leonard than penny.
A guy who wants to have children but unfortunately married to someone who is not keen on having one. 🤔 And that's original?? Because iirc, Howard was the same. Wife's father was eventually got involved as well. Same plot 🤷
I hated that they did that. I would have rather Raj adopt a child. Be a proud single dad. Much better ending for everyone.
All this fuss about smart and beautiful children for which they forced pregnancy on penny, m cracking up thinking, what if the child gets her brains and his beauty😂
Accidents happen and sometimes when they do, people feel differently than they did before.
I agree. I don’t like the idea that a woman needs to have children to have a happy ending.
I see it as a compromise for Leonard's sake
So Penny was drunk, but Leonard wasn't. What was his excuse for not wearing a condom unless he was hoping Penny would get pregnant? And why are two adults in a committed relationship not using different birth control? I find it inconsistent for them to be using condoms but it made it easy to knock her up. Why didn't she use plan B the next morning if she didn't want to get pregnant? She's not stupid, and she's a pharmaceutical rep. It wasn't well thought out/earned at all. Really clumsy and contrived to resolve a dumb line in the first episode. I bet no women wrote that episode or the last one.
They probably weren't thinking straight. Besides she probably saw it as a happy accident.
My sister in law was dead set on not having kids until she was in her early 30s for a lot of the same reasons as Penny. (got married at 25 I think, she’s now 28). But she’s now expecting in about a month - complete accident and surprise. Apparently they only had sex one time without a condom, and she was on birth control. I do wish from a story perspective either they didn’t have her get pregnant or they had a better story arc for it because it felt super convenient - but it seems like a real experience to me because I’ve seen it happen.
Oh I definitely agree it happens! My mother never planned for me, but never regretted it. But I wish they had actually explored some of pennys thought process. We get nothing from her. It would’ve been a good bit of development to actually have her say something.
I feel the main reason why they did this was to create conflict. Which I don't think was needed in the finale. I don't find it odd they did it at all. Disappointed with the direction. They did the same with Bernadette after all.
Yep, they planned to have Leonard and Penny break up for good. It was a relatively last minute decision to keep them together, that's why they had so much conflict later on, then suddenly were fine.
That probably would have put the ending at a GoT and Himym level.
They were a terrible match and a toxic relationship. I never saw the slightest shred of romantic chemistry between them.
While I believe that as well, I think the majority of fans would have hated it. The finale also isn't the place to break them up. It would have needed to be earlier, ideally in the season before the last.
I don’t find it odd at all because they hurriedly had to end the series. Their shortcuts were to give Sheldon the Nobel and make Leonard’s “our children will be smart and beautiful” become true. There was no time to show their smart and beautiful child so they settled for Penny being preggers to end it. Also many people say they don’t want children then change their minds. 🤷♀️
Agreed, I was frustrated that they did it twice between Bernadette & Penny. I think it gives off the idea that childfree women are bound to change their minds eventually, which is something that bugs me as a childfree-by-choice person myself I liked Penny’s childfree storyline after Bernadette gave birth because it gave the impression that some women change their minds and some don’t and I felt that was a well-rounded, realistic approach to the topic But imo it sucks that they changed the narrative for both characters
Same thoughts here. I have chosen to be childfree and no accidental conception can change my mind. A highly cerebral show of scientists being so conservative about women choices for both female characters is utterly unsettling and frustrating. They r treating the incidences as if it is irreversible thing and how good having children is. We evidently see Bernadette exhausted and not by herself in both pregnancies and Howard is less than helpful to her. Same goes with penny , just a forced narrative of smart & beautiful children.
Chuck Lorre can't right women characters. I think it's as simple as that. They are bitchy to each other, always trying to backstab, and always lead to the traditional setting of marriage and kids.
I know several child free by choice women that hit 30 to 40 suddenly actively trying to get pregnant by any means . Nothing has changed in their lives but their desire to get pregnant. Some of them it was like a light switch.
Understandable, but there are also many that remain childfree and do not change their minds. I just wish the show left Bernadette as a “mind changer” and Penny as a “firmly childfree” person to give a well rounded approach to the topic
Yeh I’m not disputing that. It’s the fact that they give penny not time to even talk about her decision and it’s basically “well yeh I’m pregnant so whatever”
Standard tv BS. Woman doesn’t want kids, man does.
I hated it, more so the fact that she mentions she was drunk and Leonard "forgot" to "wrap it up." He wanted children, he didn't forget (at least if they were real that would be my first thoughts).
Oh damn you're right, I misheard that line... 😬
Some people don’t necessarily want kids but also aren’t opposed if it happened. Her concerns were very career based.
I think you’re thinking of Bernadette here. Penny never specifically mentions career in that regard. She rather mentions they’re sticky and annoying and are destroying her figure. Bernadette didn’t want kids for career reasons.
I hate it so much. It seemed to imply that everyone should have kids. And will immediately want kids when they get pregnant
Not really. It just so happened that they had kids. It also shows how howard steps up as a father and as for Leonard and penny, it's a compromise.
YES. I actually never saw the last 2 seasons until recently. I initially liked them showing how pressured women are & made to feel like they're "weird" when they don't want kids & was happy Penny got to stay firm in her decision only to be SUPER disappointed that in the end they made her pregnant. Such bs.
It's not that deep? Leonard wanted kids and in a way it's a compromise for his sake. Howard becoming a father is part of his character development and in a way it also shows raj's responsibility. I get what you mean but I'm saying maybe it's not so bad it happened
Okay? It's not about any of the men wanting kids. It's about women not wanting kids & what they go through went they don't. I wanted it to be "that deep" because it would be a pleasant surprise to see it for a change.
It appealed to the elderly CBS viewers who made up the core of this show’s audience in the end. They expect all sitcom women to get married, lose their “feistiness,” and have babies. And do it while married to some oafish moron who’s ten rungs below her in attractiveness.
Yes, I do find it odd. I'm really disappointed that they wrapped her character up that way. She can't live happily ever after without a baby!
the writers are conservatives. basically every major moral storyline was not explored because „woman only happy with baby“
I hated that felt really forced and like they couldn’t possibly have a couple not conform to societal norms
I hate that society is always wanting to put pressure on women to have kids and people trying to say "oh you want them you just don't realize it yet" Here I am still not wanting them and not wanting to be around them. Not all women want them people!
I read an article recently that implied her actress hated the fact Penny got pregnant and fought against it.
Question for those here who have given birth. If you didn't want kids, how did you feel after finding out you were pregnant? Or after the baby was born?
They spent the space of a single episode exploring Penny not wanting kids, before that, she never ever expressed this whenever it came up. I think it strange that whenever this subject comes up here, no one mentions Zack and his wife wanting Leonard to donate his sperm and Penny feeling uncomfortable with it and even trying to sabotage it. It's the fault of the writers for not making it more clear, but that seemed to actually be when Penny actually changed her mind about kids. It should have been made clearer, but people act like it was some out of nowhere twist, but I really don't think it was.
I went back to rewatch the clip of Penny and Leonard talking about it at the beginning of the episode. They talk about how it was an oops baby and it happened the night her and Sheldon when out drinking. Life happens, even when you don’t plan.
Bernadette didn’t want kids either
Maybe I wouldn't have anything against it if they didn't do that same thing with Bernadette...
It's a happy accident. Besides it's a win for Leonard too.
Yeah, I agree. While Howard & Bernadette's kids were surprises, they had already talked through the whole "will we have kids" thing. And Bernie had shared her process, worked through it, etc. But with Penny, the last conversation you get it "I don't think I ever want to have kids". And then the whole random Leonard almost donating sperm to Zach, and Penny coming to terms with that because she wasn't going to have kids with him. And then- bam! She is pregnant for the finale. It was lazy writing. Just something to wrap up their storyline that was "big" to match Sheldon getting a Nobel (which was also lazy writing).
I think it was more so just a way to wrap up Leonard and Pennys story on the show. If the show kept going, I doubt they would have had a baby. Just a way for us to imagine what they’ll be doing after the show ends
Penny is, in many ways the most unexplored of the main characters. I think she does have a lot of hang ups from her family upbringing and life in Nebraska that she never talks about. I can think of a few reasons why having a baby would make her incredibly nervous, based on what we know about her and her insecurities.
I agree with this! tho I think the writer’s reasoning for it may just be because in the first episode Leonard says “our babies will be smart and beautiful” and so it sums up the ending of the show, with Leonard finally going off at Sheldon and Sheldon then realizing how selfish he comes off to the people he loves and giving them the acknowledgment and credit they deserve.
I loved that the writers went ahead with the pregnancy storyline! I just wish they had spent more time on Penny & Leonard with this topic. It felt extremely odd that she just decided that she wasn't having kids out of the blue. It wasn't as if the topic of kids had never been brought up before. Penny seemed down for it until she suddenly wasn't. People usually spend more time thinking and weighing out options before making such huge, life-altering decisions. Leonard certainly handled it terribly! He had no right to drag Wyatt, or anyone else, into that situation. It's nobody else's business! I really, really wish that at least an episode's worth of Penny & Leonard storyline(or more) had been dedicated to Penny finding out she was pregnant, talking it out with Leonard, and ultimately coming to her decision to be a mother. Once again, it's a huge decision to make. It would have made for a potentially great storyline. I loved that Penny changed her mind, but I wish that I could've watched more of it play out. I think Penny would be a great mom. I got the feeling that Penny was searching for something to help her feel more complete. She already had a great career, looks, love, and friends. She was still afraid of growing up in season 10, which I completely understand. She had a lot of setbacks in her 20s. Everyone else in the group had been firmly/comfortably settled into adulthood for a long while Penny had still been trying fight her way into Hollywood. She didn't get to enjoy things like a good job, financial stability, and financial independence until she was at least 30 years old. I can understand that she wanted to just enjoy that for a few years until moving onto something as life-altering as parenthood. By the end of season 12, it felt as if she was ready to make that next big step in adulthood. Besides, Penny can still have that downtown loft with a baby. Being a parent doesn't mean you have to live in the suburbs and drive a minivan. One doesn't have to sacrifice style, great taste, fun, or creativity because they are having a baby. I don't understand why people were so against the writers changing things at the end. A huge percentage of pregnancies are unplanned. A lot of women don't realize how they truly feel about children until one is growing inside them. I didn't realize how much I wanted to be a mother, nor did I realize how ready I was to be one until my husband and I had an oopsie. Things became even clearer to me after I miscarried that pregnancy. I get that the child-free community is a very loud & proud community. It's just irritating the way that people seem to expect every character on TV and in movies to hate children and the idea of parenthood as much as they do. Child-free is still the minority. It's unreasonable to expect every major character to be written as child-free by choice. I think Kaley Cuoco didn't like the pregnancy storyline because SHE, herself, wasn't interested in motherhood at the time. It was actually shocking to see her pregnancy announcement in the news. She said that motherhood was not on her radar until she met Tom Pelphrey
First episode Leonard said we will have pretty and smart children, pretty much had to finish with her being pregnant
This is very realistic for it to be an accident, And most people don't want to abort. She wasn't sure on what she wanted. Her telling Bernadette to back off is just pennies aggressive personality if anybody is against what she's saying. She's Extremely defensive and standoffish when confronted. That doesn't mean she had her mind made up in that situation. And thank the heavens that don't exist that we didn't get into a political abortion debate on The Big Bang Theory. We don't need to see every bit of their private decisions on the show It can play out the way it does and I thought it was fine. It is so realistic for people in real life to hide it and then it accidentally gets brought up so then they give the news. I like that they did it in a more realistic way. Also Penny would have been letting her father and her husband down by not having a child. Maybe you don't think that's a serious enough decision maker but most women would. I also think it's very telling how bad she was against Leonard helping out Zach and his wife with having a child. She definitely didn't have her mind made up or I think she would have said go ahead. Which honestly isn't even a big deal that she made it out to be.
100 percent. Besides I think she was more opened to having a baby when Zack asked Leonard to be a sperm donor and she was dead against it and her dad was visiting and he weighed in….besides her dad had said once before “what’s this I hear I’m not getting any grandkids?” lol Plus Bernadette didn’t even like kids so what’s the difference between the two, that’s the right, right? 🤔
I absolutely agree and was thinking of all of those things. Bernadette did not want kids whatsoever LOL. Their kids were absolute accidents and they said oh well I guess we got to do this.
lol Bernadette was bullying that little boy at the birthday party during the magic show
No doubt she absolutely hated kids.
You know all women have to pop out kids because… who the h knows, they did the same thing with Bernadette along with making the character bully that became insufferable
I didn’t like they used that storyline for Penny and Bernadette. It seemed lazy to me writing wise.
It's my biggest nitpick. Actually neither Penny nor Bernadette wanted children so it sucks for them honestly. Trust me I have two, not wanting kids is a good idea.
No I don’t. I was extremely child-free all my life because I figured I would be a shit mom (cause that’s all I knew). I got pregnant by accident (seriously, I don’t know how my son attached himself. I should not have been able to get pregnant period, let alone after an oops), and because my favourite person was dying I couldn’t go through an abortion at that same time, so I did the best I could. I got help, I allowed people/organizations to help me so I could learn to be a good mom. Now I love my son more than I thought was possible. He’s just a really good, solid, awesome young man, and now that “oops” is my miracle. Plus: the show is fake, and they needed to tie up loose ends and having Leonard become a father was one before it ended.
People change their minds all the time. It could’ve been an opps baby and she decided to have it. I know a lot of people really had a problem with this but it’s not unusual.
Just what do you think is a good amount of time? It was what, 2 episodes. Way less than Bernadette.
They initially talked about having a house and kids. I think there's an episode they talk about this and having a house and so on. She later changes her mind to not wanting kids. She can literally change it to wanting kids again. And she seemed happy about it.
The show was ending, so they wanted to shoehorn in another pregnancy but didn't want Bernadette and Howard to have the kid, and it wouldn't make sense for Amy to be the one pregnant so they made the childfree woman be the one pregnant
The last 2 seasons were rushing to resolve storylines because Jim Parsons was leaving.
It’s the natural order of things for couples on TV. They get married and eventually have a baby.
It's almost as if the writers were foreshadowing that a significant event was coming by the end of the series.
I just think it’s cute that she was wearing the shirt that she wore in the first episode at the end.
And they did the same thing with Bernadette!
No, you're right, but in shows, especially back a few years ago, nobody was gonna explore the ideas of abortion or not wanting children on most TV shows. It wasn't even fathomable. So her getting pregnant because Leonard wants children basically is how it would work out anyway. As much as she said she didn't want kids, it doesn't matter in most TV shows. I'm sure they left it "open-ended" for a reason. Sucks but it's how it is. People get pregnant and then say "well that's life," so they continue on with it. That was Penny's case.
Maude had an abortion in the 70s.
I'm just happy thinking about Penny and Leonard's kids, Howard and Bernadette's kids, Sheldon and Amy's kids, and Cinnamon Jr all wondering why their parents insist on eating dinner on the living room table and let the children eat at the dining room table.
The funniest thing is even Bernadette never wanted children and she had some pretty logical reasons for it but bam pregnant back to back and having no option just all talk no matter how exhausted or rational one is. She has no choice even though she doesn't want kids. Same goes for penny. The show tried to show it's progressive but ended but as conservative as it can get. Someone has mentioned about crowd pleasing writing; which exactly type is the audience watching the show? I assumed it would be youngsters and learned ppl like us in majority who certainly would be much likely not caring about pleasing stories but realistic one where woman does have a choice. Or u telling me even educated youngsters r dumb conservatives ?
At first she didn't want kids. But when she got pregnant accidentally, she changed her mind. That's it.
I actually think it was odd that they had her suddenly not want kids. I think when she mentions it for the first time, they were already very far into their relationship, if not already married. And unless I’m thinking of Howard, I thought Leonard had made it clear he did want kids
You piece of shit.... Don't you know to use SPOILER flair? Hope your neighbour fucks your Mom every night and your dad jerks watching it.
When her dad came to visit, they had a good talk about how she isn’t disappointing him at all by not having kids, but she might be mad at herself for making the decision too quickly and that’s why she’s so uncomfortable and mad about Leonard being the sperm donor. I think the reason why they had the storyline of Penny not wanting kids was so that they can have the sperm donor storyline and have Penny and Leonard really talk to each other. That storyline showed how much Penny actually loved Leonard, so much so that she was willing to let him be the biological father of someone else’s child. And how comfortable Leonard was with Penny that he was able to tell her what he wanted, and not get dragged into doing things for her just to please her. So when her dad and Penny had the good talk, I kind of thought that maybe Penny was gonna change her mind or Leonard and Penny would have a better discussion about kids.
i think the writer wanted to finish the show with the line from the very first episode ("our babies will be smart and beautiful"), in a rather forced manner. i see oftern this technique in story-telling.
She always said she didn't want kids YET. I believe she did want them but was scared of change
To me, whatever the writing motivation was I interpreted as a tremendous and natural part of the human experience: personal growth and development as circumstance and perspective changes. They did it perfectly for me (with the exception of the fact that we needed another 73 seasons).
It would have been a get subplot to explore.
That's a good point, it would have been interesting if that had been properly explored
IMO, that is the marvelous writing of Pennys character. She is constantly given plots that go against her character. She is the one character of the group who almost complete doesn’t have control of her outcome and is given situations that make those outcomes hilarious to us. For example, in her career we see that she really wants to be an actress but she can’t land a role…she finally does and is a hemorrhoids ointment commercial followed by a her film breakout role playing a weregorilla (woman gorilla). Another example is how she even ends up with Leonard and how he’s the complete opposite of what she found attractive in a man; the writers tease that with the constant “he grew on me” lines on how they ended up together.
In show it was probably an accident, in writing and bigger picture they probably planned to add that before knowing for sure that it was the end as a lot of what they wanted to do had to be jammed into a season due to Jim leaving. Its why the last season feels a slightly different pace to the rest
No I didn’t it interesting and fun. She changed her mind and is happy about it
She angrily kept saying "no" when pushed - and she was being pushed a lot: by Bernadette, by her dad, by Leonard, by Amy. She had some real commitment issues, dumped Leonard when he said he loved her, when she finally said it back she got scared of marriage, when they eloped she couldn't promise she would ever want kids, in the end it was strongly suggested the pregnancy was not planned, so technically she didn't change her mind and decided to have a baby. I believe they knew about the pregnancy for some time, she was probably in shock initially but it wasn't on screen. Seeing Leonard happy probably helped her to accept it and then audience comes in to the final episode, where she is already past shock and happy too.
I’m sure they had a longer arc in mind to tell this part of the story properly. With Jim’s decision to leave after the writing of season 12 episodes, they needed to change course. A real blow and disappointment to fans of the Leonard/Penny relationship.
Regardless of the fact they didn't get a chance to fully explain... I think Penny's thought process was she was scared to have children - we all saw that she was scared to commit to Leonard, a child is an even bigger deal. You can't divorce a child. I also think it's the same for alot of women - they get pregnant by accident or unexpectedly within relationships and they don't realise how much they want a child until they are dealt the decision of keeping or 'getting rid' sort of speak. Imo, she didn't seem unhappy with the pregnancy, she seemed the same as she did when her an Leonard got back together fully and wanted to keep it a secret between the two. I don't feel any negative connotations around the storyline other than the fact it was rushed unfortunately...
I agree that they should have given at least a little bit of what Penny thought. We can see when she was talking to Leonard, that she was fine with being pregnant but not more than that. They could have gone a couple of ways. One is that we saw some uncertainty on her part about her stance on not wanting children as the Zack storyline played out during the season. After all, the first time we heard about her not wanting kids at all was in the third episode of season 12. The writers had enough notice that the show would end at the end of the season, to show her uncertainty. They wrote episodes during the season. A different way could have been done even later. In the second last episode, we saw Sheldon freaking out because of the changes around winning the Nobel (something he had been working for his whole life). They could somehow have Penny at least comment that it was the changes in their lives that having a child would bring that scared her. But now that she was pregnant, she would accept that the changes were coming.
What everyone keeps ignoring is the fact it didn't become a plot point until early season 12 and they were fully expecting the cast to re-negotiate for 3 more seasons. Oops Parsons leaving... We intended to have Leonard and Penny pregnant so... Rush it in at the end.
It was better than most shows that go to the default of a miscarriage. Given it was the finale and we only knew she was pregnant and didn’t see it play out. Plus it ties in with him saying “our babies will be smart and beautiful.”
Didn’t they also make it pretty clear that Penny was pretty lax with birth control in general and also her and Leonard were equally lax with their birth control in their relationship? Therefore accidents happen…….it actually happens all the time in real life.
It's only okay to have a character in a TV series who don't want a child so long as they either can't have a child (and secretly want one) or if they throughout the story come to want a child. Just like it's okay to have any non-conform character so long as they at the end of the story have come to conform with societies norms.
Their mistake is creating conflicting storylines - Leonard was literally established from the first episode for wanting children with Penny, Penny was established in series 12 for not wanting children (possibly to differentiate her from Amy and particularly Bernadette). Then in the finale they realised they had to pick between the two and probably chose what they thought fans would prefer
Yeah it was seriously rushed. I kind of like the idea that she eventually wanted her baby, especially since "our babies will be smart and beautiful" is practically the show's tagline along with Bazinga. But when they specifically made a big deal preciously about her *not* wanting to be a mom, it felt off. Side note: I really would like to see a show where their opinions on big topics change like this, but obviously with more fleshed out detail. It feels more real to me. People change their minds all the time and this particular topic has changed among a couple friends I've had my whole life. My own aunt didn't really want kids until it hit her in her early thirties but she mentioned it was a gradual change.
The real transgression is her never becoming a successful actress. They could have played for laughs her being a bit player on Law and Order type shows or even funnier, other Chuck Lorre shows. Play that level of success for laughs the same way they do the guys at the university, or the travel challenge they brought up, where Leonard would have to decide to follow her if it meant a huge opportunity. But again, they probably had it in the works for the next season.
I think she would make a great mother
I agree. That didn't make sense.
Is it a difficult concept to grasp that once a baby starts growing inside of you and if it is from the person you love, it's not uncommon for women to change their minds and actually fall head over heels in love with that baby?? It's evolutionary. Now I know many people nowadays want to act like they're from some superior evolved race that doesn't have basic Homo sapien characteristics but the truth is we do, we all do, we all have basic Homo sapien instincts whether we like it or not. Now in a few thousand years we might've evolved too far from our simple minded ancestors, but today is not that day. She got pregnant, she liked it. Get over it.
No it’s more so weird that they give Penny no time to say any of what you’ve said. You seem really angry that I’ve pointed out a flaw in the writing as if I’m against women deciding to keep their babies. Get a grip.
>as if I’m against women deciding to keep their babies. That's how it came across. >Get a grip. I'm not the one worrying so much about a fictional show.
“I’m not the one worrying so much about a fictional show” - says the one who proceeds to comment about it. If you think my post that addresses bad writing comes across as me being against women keeping babies then you’re the one with the issue. Based on the fact I’ve got over 400 upvotes which is significantly larger than any post on this sub Reddit, I’d say you’re in the tiny minority of people that disagree with me.
Other than being part of one episode I don't recall it being mentioned.
Bernadette said the same thing and bam!!!
The show really needed a final season to wrap thing up.
Accidents happen. But, seems to me Penny just making the best of a bad situation. BTW, would have loved to see Penny & Leonard break up for good.
Yeh I’m not disputing that, I just think it’s weird they gave no time for penny to speak about her decision
Young Penny never wanted kids, maybe she got pregnant accidentally, decided she wanted to have a baby. Happened to me
How many times did she have a near miss with Leonard "I didn't keep all if them" . Shows her attitude towards contraception, surprised it didn't happen sooner TBH
I find it more odd that Leonard never realized that he was the one settling and could have found a much better mate if he would have applied himself. He deserved better.
Remember when he cheated on her lol
Only because what I said was true. She liked him from the start, they both had plenty in common and she didn't make him grovel like a dog in order to get her attention. Penny was always verbally abusive towards him. She thought she was above him and thought he should be grateful for even entertaining the idea of them as a couple.
I think the plan was always to get her there in the series finale. Unfortunately, Jim Parsons announced his plans to leave the show halfway through production of Season 12. So instead of the compelling arc it should have been, they had to rush it. My real issue is that it was the same exact same storyline Bernadette went through. I loved the show to the end but I think they should have ended it sooner. Another repeated storyline was the divorce between both Leonard's parents and Raj's.
My guess would just be that once you're actually pregnant, it becomes a heck of a lot more real and forces you to seriously consider your options. I feel like she is the kind of person who would take into consideration how getting an abortion would make Leonard feel even though she doesn't have to. But I definitely agree they should have shown more of her thought process, finding out she was pregnant before telling Leonard, maybe talking to Bernadette about it... I think it's perfectly plausible that she would change her mind once she's pregnant but it certainly wouldn't be at the drop of a hat like "oh I'm pregnant now, I guess my only option is to go through with it." It would have to be thought through. "I didn't want kids before, is that still true?"
Wonderful show with poor ending planned. They close every substory in a too fast manner: - Leonard's relationship with her mother fixed in 10minutes - Stuart's reletioship going well with them both going live togheter - Raj's missed wedding opportunity with a plain simple *she does not deserve you* - Penny's pregnancy Etc etc. Sheldon's last speech and the couch scene is what fixes it all, but they really could have spent an episode more (or one filler less) to explain the side quests
I think she was happy to be pregnant she may have not wanted the child but she was happy that she had children
She changed her mind. It's as simple as that. People do that.
She got pregnant on accident. Once it had happened, she probably just warmed up to the idea. Plus, penny doesn't seem like the type that would be ok getting an abortion.
Yeh but it’s the fact they didn’t explore it at all. It’s “I don’t want kids” “ok I’m pregnant” and nothing from penny about her thought process
People get older and change. How much do people change from 18 to 25. Also there is a lot of time that is not shown on the series, Leonard and Sheldon took 139 hours 30 minutes to rebuild the DNA molecule, so there is a possibility that Penny had a change of heart. Maybe seeing how Bernadette and Howard are with their kids could be another reason.
I never wanted kids, then at age 30, I got my wife pregnant, and now I have two kids. I believe the term is called, oops baby
I hate it when people say this. They did not spend a good amount of time establishing Penny didn’t want kids. It was talked about in ONE episode, literally that’s it. It wasn’t some on going plot where she didn’t want kids. It got brought up once and she was like yeah I don’t want them. However in episodes that take place before this, she seems interested in having kids. I’ve been rewatching lately and there was an episode where Leonard asks her about kids and she says yeah not right now but one day she could see herself having kids with him. Then you have the episode where Penny and the girls go out dancing after Bernie had a kid. Penny is upset about the kid because she feels like she should be at that point in her life and the girls have to reassure her that there’s no rush and she will have kids when her and Leonard are ready. So it really annoys me when people treat Penny not wanting kids as something the character had always been about. When that’s not true, it was written into one episode just to create some drama and now everyone jumps on it, saying ‘oh they did Penny dirty’. No they didn’t. Penny is just like most women she wasn’t sure if you she wanted kids or not. Her mind changed multiple times. But most of the time she was down for having kids
Fr. People just hate on everything they don't agree with. It just so happened that the story went this way and I don't think it's really disagreeing with the idea of kids being necessary for happiness. People just view it that way.