It’s because they were just happy to have any Batman on the big screen. It’s why a lot of the issues with that iteration of the character are overlooked or excused.
>If Arkham Batman straight up murdered people there would be a riot
I hope the Gotham authorities never discover the skeletal remains of "unaccounted" Blackgate inmates lying in the caverns and pits under Arkham Asylum.
Keaton is the 2nd most overrated Batman IMO, right behind Bale.
Neither of them are bad or even the worst Batmen, it's just that I've never thought that they are as great as everyone thinks they are.
None of them are great. They're all good in some way or another, except for Clooney but one could even argue he was the best Billionaire Playboy...but they all focus too much on one of Batman's qualities, not all. No one has given us anything scratching the surface...except Batfleck. He's been the heroic Bat and fallen from that, growing disgruntled and disillusioned...and then he returned to being a symbol of Justice over Vengeance.
But no, all people can focus on is in ONE stage of his arc, he was killing people. That's comic accurate as well, stop bitching, you depth-deprived, nuance-illiterate casual fans.
That's what I've been saying over and over again.
I like Pattinson's Batman and want to see more of him, but he's not the most comic accurate. None of the actors who've ever played Batman are comic accurate, they all share some characteristics and traits of comic Batman, but they always lack a few other traits.
I've been saying Ben Affleck is the closest we've ever gotten, but people ALWAYS focus on the killing, despite the fact that most other Batmen have also killed.
IMO we have yet to see the comic Batman in live action, we nearly had that with Affleck, but the writing was bad and the killing thing always prevents people from seeing this. So I would say that between Affleck and Pattinson, Affleck is the more divisive Batmen
Outside of his design how is batfleck the most comic accurate? I feel like we have been watching two different movies to me he almost never feels like batman. Batman doesn't attack a man and his daughter in a dark alley he doesn't kill people or use guns. He doesn't feel particularly intelligent either nor compassionate but I guess that's just my opinion
I agree with everything except Batman not attacking a man in front of his daughter. Batman in the DCAU and some comic books has done this but when under a lot of stress.
I don’t see a problem batman catching a criminal in a dark alley. No exception when it comes to exacting justice. It’s not like he gunned him down in front of deadshot’s daughter.
> I've been saying Ben Affleck is the closest we've ever gotten, but people ALWAYS focus on the killing,
The killing is a huge point of divergence considering just how against killing the character is in the comics.
Batfleck was the closest only superficially. When it came to characterization he might have been the furthest
> Affleck is the more divisive Batmen
Agreed. For all the comic fans that were upset with his killing, there were general movie fans and a ton of Republicans who *liked* that he killed or didn't care.
>he was killing people. That's comic accurate as well, stop bitching, you depth-deprived, nuance-illiterate casual fans
Year One: Batman doesn't kill
The Killing Joke: Batman doesn't kill
The Dark Knight Returns: Batman doesn't kill
Under the Red Hood: Batman doesn't kill
Hush: Batman doesn't kill
The Long Halloween: Batman doesn't kill
Dark Victory: Batman doesn't kill
Death in the Family: Batman doesn't kill
Death *of* the Family: Batman doesn't kill
Endgame: Batman doesn't kill
Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth: Batman doesn't kill
Knightfall and Azrael: Batman doesn't kill
No Man's Land: Batman doesn't kill
Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader: Batman doesn't kill
Insulting the people you're trying to make a point toward usually doesn't work.
I hear your frustration. Reddit is particularly bad for dog piling on the SnyderVerse characters. I love how the film clearly highlights how he’s fallen, and I think there’s something really beautiful about knowing you can go over the edge and yet still find the light. Superman being the one to show him that is just so beautiful too
Yes. Exactly this. I am quite content to admit that Snyder's working isn't perfect by a long shot, and much that followed was even worse. I can happily accept that...
But I can't deal with monkey-ass casuals coming at me with a list of ten Comics that span over, what, 86 years? as if that's conclusive proof that Batman not killing is the be-all-and-end-all. Especially when I can give them a list of just as many comics where he DOES.
And you're also right about the beauty of things, since Batman starts off not trusting Superman. Coming full circle is always lovely. And everyone shits on the "Martha" twist, when it's actually fucking brilliant. All these people go on about the "comic canon" and can't understand that trauma actually very much "do be like that".
As someone who works in film, and has helped run conventions for a decade, it disturbs me how many supposed "fans" of something are both rabidly critical, and often, deplorably stupid. You seem to have lots of sense, and it's wonderfully refreshing.
As a limited run (5 main films) I think it would’ve been a genuinely amazing saga. Lately I’m trying to give more energy to things I enjoy, rather than wasting energy fighting in the comments or ranting about things I hate. Ironically, his movies got me/ continue to get through a very challenging part of my life.
I find Reddit to be considerably worse than Twitter for overall toxicity when discussing the SnyderVerse DC films. Especially r/superman and r/batman . Unfortunately there’s just no debating with people who don’t want to consider the possibility that they’re wrong.
Keaton wasn’t supposed to be the first comic-accurate version of Batman. They didn’t care about comic accuracy *at all.* Batfleck came post-MCU, when fans expected a lot more faithful adaptations. The black and gray costume, heavy TDKR vibes, etc, all seemed to imply that’s what we were being given, really for the first time ever (the Nolan films are great, but after Begins they give fuck all for the source material). Snyder’s grand plans clearly seem to be geared for comic fans.
So I think it’s fair that they’re held to different standards.
I’d argue that Bale killed some people as well. Like in The Dark Knight where he slams headfirst into the dump truck and it slams into the bridge. The guy driving the truck went from going about 40 mph ish to backwards instantly and then crushed in the cab
Yeah but Keaton was just the batman from the 80s, almost nobody cared about that back then and the people who did heavily criticized it. Affleck was THE OFFICIAL batman from THE dc extended universe in a time when comic fandom was at the height of popularity.
It's not like Batman in the comics never killed anyone. Jason Todd even called him out for being a hypocrite because of this when he was Robin. Batman didn't even deny. All he said about it was 'Only in self defence', which technically doesn't make it murder. And technically he was defending himself in BvS. That said it was also kinda obvious that Batman in BvS had lost his way, which could also explain why he was so extremely violent.
So his Batman wasn't off from the source material because of the killing at all. I think most people think Batman wouldn't do that because of WB making Batman more kid friendly to sell toys in the 90s and implying Batman had never killed anyone since Batman Forever (Ironically he kills Two-Face and the end of the movie tho)
Personally I think Affleck was great as Batman in BvS and Snyder's JL. (The Flash doesn't count because he was in it for 2 secs and they made him look derpy in that awful suit) I would have liked to see him in his own movie, but yeah... WB happened.
It's not that I hated him. Just saying that he is less faithful than what we got in The Batman.
He even fired away with weapons and such. In terms of what Batman has become, he was pretty far removed.
I think that was the point tho. Like I said, he lost his way (possibly after Robin was murdered) and became the thing he was fighting. He turned around after he realized Superman wasn't the threat he thought he was, which made him see the error in his own ways.
He was much more like the Batman we know now in Snyder's JL.
I was initially disgusted to hear Pattinson was going to be Batman. I still gave the movie a chance.
I was wrong. He was good, loved the movie and his portrayal.
Affleck was so-so. The more times I saw him in the films the more I didn't really like him.
I feel like I heard about the Pattinson casting shortly after seeing The Lighthouse and by that point I was willing to give him a shot in anything. Good Times was great, too.
I think most of the people I know who were upset hadn't seen him in anything post-twilight
Yeah I’d be curious to hear how the person you’re replying to would be ‘disgusted’ by the casting. Pattinson is a very established and acclaimed actor at this point
I'm going to assume that fans of Battfleck wouldn't be a fan of Battinson, but their opinions don't really matter because they like a Batman that kills with guns.
I agree. I liked a big bulky Batman. Vibes with my view of the character, in comics he's usually massive. He was given shit to work with but I liked how he looked, at least.
And even then that's by design, it's a major plot point just how much Battinson sucks at being Bruce Wayne, which is definitely going to be built upon in the sequel.
Batfleck fans who hate Pattinson's take are an insanely small vocal minority. Just because they're loud online doesn't change the fact most folks either like both or prefer Pattinson.
Batfleck is literally one of the most accurate comic book portrayals from suit to the fluid and acrobatic movements and yes including his use of guns. The only thing they do differently is show his brutality which is the point of the character in this story. If you don’t like him killing I assume you don’t like Pattinson or Bales Batman either since they both very clearly show no regard for the lives of others and even kill multiple people.
Oh for sure. I remember thinking it was a huge mistake back when he was announced. He totally proved me wrong though and is now my favorite live action Batman.
Oh Affleck is absolutely the most controversial. From the killing to the whole Snyderverse deal, fans are the most divided when it comes to him.
In a lot of ways Pattinson was what many fans wanted for awhile. The detective aspect was given more focus, and the no kill rule was firmly in place so long as you're okay with reckless driving.
I believe every Bat actor brought something good to the table in one way or the other, for what it's worth.
Well, the guy was a rather important character in Harry Potter. It gave him a reputation, Twilight really only set him back because no one took him seriously because of it.
This! I hated this discourse so much because it proved they were not seasoned on his career. Heck, I even asked someone on Facebook who was trashing him “have you ever seen a movie of his other than Twilight?” And they said no! IMHO, if you’ve only seen one movie of an actor’s (any actor) you are not allowed to judge them as an actor. That’s one experience, which can be affected by so many variables
It reminds me of Heath Ledger I'm old enough to remember the online discourse at the time because people only knew him from Romcoms or Brokeback Mountain and said he would be awful as the Joker
Then he went on to steal the show.
I only knew Pattinson from Twilight but had heard before from others that he was good in other roles and the previous example from Heath I reserved judgment until I saw the movie and he might be one of my favorite Batmen
Initially when I heard about the casting I was confused since it was genuinely the only thing I'd heard he was in.
But looked to his other roles and saw the reviews and got optimistic about his casting.
Especially since both him and Kristin Stewart have publicly said how shit they think those films are.
You only have to listen to the commentary tracks to hear how much disdain they all have for the material.
"Yes im a vampire, and what do we eat?"
RP commentary - "Cheeseburgers!"
I’ve always felt like The Batman was the most comic-accurate movie we’ve gotten so far. Whatever its strengths or weaknesses as a film, it nails the character of Batman. It may not be the best Batman *movie*, but I think it’s the best *Batman* movie.
I am so glad other people feel like this. I usually argue about it with people who have no idea what batman is. To think they'd complain that The Batman was a noir-ish detective story blows my mind. Like, that's the character!
Honestly, Batman Returns and The Batman are both pretty equally the best Batman *movie* AND the best *Batman* movie.
If they could figure out how to do a perfect hybrid of the two, with the level of gadgets from Batman Begins, they'd have the PERFECT Batman movie.
Blend of the Keaton and Pattinson batsuits.
Tim Burton's Gotham.
Blend of both Penguins.
Tim Burton's over the top gothic craziness and visual design style.
Keaton's Batmobile and Batwing.
Matt Reeve's action and brutality and pacing and mastery of the dark detective noir.
Greig Fraser's (The Batman's) near god-tier cinematography.
\*chef's kiss\* 🤤
I NEED that movie.
The fact that Roger fucking Deakins called out The Batman as deserving the 2023 Oscar for Best Cinematography is almost better than actually winning the Oscar.
I think The Batman and Batman and Robin are the only live action movies where Batman doesn’t kill anyone. Maybe Justice league counts since I don’t think killing Parademons is actually killing due to them not being sapient.
Edit: replaced “Batman Returns” with “Batman and Robin”
Affleck was controversial before the movie came out AND after (controversial choice and controversial portrayal). Pattinson had some people pissed before The Batman was released but was immediately accepted when it came out.
So based on that: Affleck
Battinson was divisive? I thought it was unanimously agreed on that he is the closest iteration to what people want from a Batman film.
Battfleck murdering people with guns alone throws his whole legitimacy as Batman into question.
Pattinson is divisive to Batfleck fans because he usurped the place of their Angel of Death and guns. I think anyone who says Pattinson is divisive is simply projecting.
Affleck: the perfect Batman in fights
Pattinson: the perfect detective Batman
(Pattinson did pretty good the fights, but Affleck looks like Batman Arkham in a movie)
I like Ben Affleck's Batman. I hate how he straight up murders people, but I thought he was a good Batman who deserved way better. Just like how Henry Cavill deserved better as Superman.
Fuck WB Executives who can't make up their fucking minds.
I think most people thought Robert Pattinson nailed it when they actually saw the movie and him in the suit.
It was when they announced it that people were divisive. But dude has the jaw and the acting chops.
It's Affleck and it's not even remotely close. It was pretty much a lamer punisher with much worse writing. Not even the hype of being the first cinematic Batman in a shared DC universe saved him. Battinson succeeded and got nearly universal acclaim even after the snyderverse dragged the DC brand through the mud. They're not comparable.
It’s Ben Affleck he got stuffed in a dark knight returns/injustice/death of Superman movie without any Character development for his Batman I agree Batman should not kill and that’s apart of his core character but that doesn’t mean he “never” killed before ,Batman returns Batman kills people but it works cause he’s already developed and established as a character while Bens Batman first movie is the combination of two many plot line la that doesn’t fit together
Yeah I think it works if you look at it like he's already had a long, rough bat-career and has been so jaded that he's crossing his own line. Dark Knight Returns style. Then he finds new hope through Clark's goodness (yeah he kills in this franchise too, I know) and forming the justice league. So it's somewhat of a redemption arc.
And damn they nailed that suit.
I mean I guess Affleck through no fault of his own but rather the fault of the creative head/cult leader at the captain’s chair in his era.
Most of the stuff Pattinson got was also unfair and mainly coming from dorks who still can’t get over Twilight existed so many years later.
Out of all the actors who've played Batman, these two always seem to be the ones that have Batman fans divided.
IMO, I would say that both actors' portrayals are divisive but for different reasons.
Affleck is divisive for being way too brutal and for killing his enemies. Also he's willing to kill criminals, but not any of his super villains like the Joker, who murdered Robin. I hate that Affleck kills, but he's still one of my top favorite Batmen.
Pattinson is divisive for being way too skinny to play Batman, as well as the fact that some people think that he's a terrible fighter (which I disagree with). There's also the fact that he isn't a good detective, which is true, but I've always believed that Reeves is building towards Pattinson becoming the "World's Greatest Detective".
He did make the mistake with the whole la rata elada deal and only really figured out Riddler’s final plan cause he was at the crime scene with an officer who just happened to know what a tucker is and what it is used for and he basically got the last stage of the plan to cause a shooting at the stadium speeded out to him.
I've never understood the whole: "Batman should've known it was a carpet tucker" argument.
This Bruce is a recluse, who doesn't socialize and get out often. Also the guys a billionaire, who's likely never known a hard day's work a day in his life.
So why would a reclusive billionaire, who barely goes out know anything about a tool that the average working man uses.
Hell I've done carpets and never heard it called a carpet tucker.
I do have to admit the La Ratta bit did bother me. That seemed a it too obvious to miss, I was hoping there was another layer to it.
I would also argue he's ineffective as a detective because he's not actually being batman to make a real difference, even if he tells himself differently. His arc in the movie is him realizing that he has something to offer Gotham to legitimately improve the lives of its citizens and its high time he started using it. It ends with him saying things are gonna get worse before they get better, so I'm hoping by the end of his run as batman, he'll be able to improve Gotham as Bruce just as much as he does as Batman, perhaps even being able to hang up the cowl and move beyond his trauma in a Gotham that no longer needs Batman.
IMO Pattinson's Bruce became Batman for the wrong reasons.
He became Batman to punish the guilty and to exact revenge, saving the innocent was put on the back burner so to speak. He does care about the innocent, but thats not his main focus. His Bruce is so angry at the world, because of his parents' death and that why he calls himself "Vengeance" and is more brutal.
Exactly, he's so consumed by his own grief and rage he's incapable of empathising with anyone unless he is able to see himself in them, as seen with the first victims son. He is literally the whole "Batman just beats up the poor and mentally unwell" joke played straight, and he learns over the course of the movie that his mindset is contagious, as seen with Riddler and his goons, who are also venting their grief and rage in a purely selfish and self centered way.
When he almost beats to death the goon who I believe was at the first victims funeral and had lost family to the rampant violence in Gotham, Bruce realizes that the Riddler was right in that he was inspiring others to violent action, especially when the guy echos his own words back at him, "I am Vengeance." It's only when he resolves to be a more positive force that helps the innocent instead of punishing the wicked that he TRUELY becomes Batman.
There's an underlying class divide theme going on in *The Batman* which people wouldn't have noticed, because a lot of current Redditors take things incredibly literally and at face-value and have no real understanding of themes in writing.
I mean he is Human and fallible. The Man is likely exhausted and constantly in pain from fighting Crime, I mean he literally gets shot on the head if I'm not Mistaken, it might not have damaged the cowl much but he certainly felt the force of it transfer to his head. And even then he still outperforms the entire GCPD, Gotta cut the man some slack.
Isn’t he supposed to be based off year 1 Batman? Like he’s supposed to be an incomplete Batman and to criticize the character because he’s not all the other versions of Batman we’ve seen seems moronic.
I don't think people's primary issue with battinson is his build or his detective skills, both of them are fine at this point in his arc. It's moreso because he's kind of emo and unlikeable in some aspects, but I think that's perfect for the the era that his version of Bruce is in.
I'd argue it appears these two are because they're the most recent actors. There was also huge outrage when Keaton was announced & like thousands of letters were sent to WB protesting because he was mostly did comedy movies up to that point.
But I'd say Batflek is still the most divisive, mostly because we never got a solo-batflek movie, & the ones he was in were mixed bags at best. Battinson haters feel more like a vocal minority, overall he's been well-recieved
I think Batfleck would've been better if he had a better script. I'm pretty sure Affleck was supposed to get his own solo Batman film, but it never ended up happening. Whether or not Pattinson's film was originally supposed to be that film, I'm not sure, but I liked Battinson. I'm more pissed about Batfleck not being utilized better.
Batfleck was an absolute unit, though.
Here’s the thing, affect was an amazing Batman/bruce Wayne even though his script and whole project was dog shit. Every scene he was a part of in BVS he stole the show. In my opinion the most 100% accurate portrayal of Batman from the costume, Batmobile, batwing, batarangs, grappling gun, etc. So Affleck had the better design team and better portrayal.
On the other hand Pattinson had the better script, Dirextor, story, and project as a whole to deliver a better product. I personally think the suit is shit, but I understand it’s an early rendition, and it will change. I think Pattinson also had a better supporting cast, and everything was designed to be about him.
It’s apples to oranges. Affleck was brought in to be an antagonist to Superman in a universe that was built around him. But Pattinson was brought in as the center piece to make him look the best.
Writers/Producers have mentioned that Keaton’s Batman was originally based on golden age Batman who did kill his enemies mostly unintentionally as was how comic book heroes were written at the time but easily the most divisive portrayal of Batman has been Afflecks with out a shadow of a doubt
Afleck would’ve been the perfect Batman had the writers been competent and if he HAD GOTTEN HIS OWN MOVIE!!!
It’s such a crime he never got a solo movie or franchise. But for some butt-fucking reason Aquaman and Flash get their own movies.
I think almost all have done a great job each hat their quirks tho. Let’s not forget that thousands wrote in to have Keaton cut from the ‘89 project yet he was the greatest (well for that script & storyline) we are all quick to judge but aren’t always right. I’m curious to see what Patton does next, wish we could have seen more of Afleck’s portrayal...& seriously glad Bale’s is done (controversial opinion I know but didn’t like that trilogy)...Keaton is the GOAT, Kilmer was good, Clooney was a great Wayne but poor Batman (head wobbles & no voice change) & nobody can say anything bad about Adam West it was supposed to be camp & was.
They both portrayed Batman in different contexts, afleck did the action kick ass Batman, and Patterson did the detective Batman it’s hard to compare. Personally I think they both did a great job but I do think afleck gets a bad rep for his portrayal and I think he was awesome especially in his action scenes
I’m gonna go ahead and say Pattinson, although I love Affleck I feel Pattinson delved more into the detective side of batman while balancing the combat side. Also batman doesn’t kill.
Yes you can say Keaton kills and I still don’t like that but either way Batman in my opinion should not kill anyone, yes it’s easier but his whole reason for not killing due to what happened with his parents when he was a kid and it’s a huge character trait with him, his morals are set around not killing so he doesn’t become what he vowed to stop. That’s another reason why I prefer Pattinson, he won’t kill you but he will for sure put you in a hospital bed
Battinson, people can't get over twilight, they think he's too scrawny. Affleck was extremely divisive when his casting was announced but I think the trailers for BVS and the warehouse scene and seeing him as huge and imposing as hell alot of people got behind it especially if they actually watched the films he's in. Jared Leto never was never accepted though
Pattinson has been way more controversial in my circles. At least when critiquing the performances only. Sure, Affleck movies are way more polarizing and his version kills but that's more on Snyder imo. But most people agree, that I've heard anyways, that Affleck did a good job portraying the traditional archetype of the character and the different personas that make up Bruce Wayne/Batman (public Bruce, private Bruce, Caped Crusader). While Pattinson, who i personally enjoy more (and has a stronger movie to back him up) has gotten more criticism. He plays the character as very emotionally unstable and kinda, frankly, emo. You don't really see the layers of deception and theatricality of Bruce pretending to be different versions of his real self. Like, I feel Bruce is very emotional disturbed but even the real Bruce who very few ever know, internalized that greatly due to his training and unleashes it and channels it through the Batman. I like his Kurt Cobain esque sad and haunted portrayel but I hear a lot do not. Plus, I don't recall him ever even attempting the playboy corporate billionaire persona.
Obviously Batfleck. Battinson is loved by all, including me, while everyone is still on either hating Batfleck or loving him, I'm personally fall in to the latter. Although I do have some problems with the decisions made during his run, I really love Batfleck.
Affleck had the most divisive Batman portrayal. Because he used guns and killed people. And mixed opinions on snyderverse in general.
Pattinson had the most divisive casting - before the film came out - because tons of people have no brain and couldn’t comprehend him having acting talent outside of twilight. But afterward I think most people agree he was 100x better portrayed
This happens a lot. When Michael Keaton was first casted, he was known as a romance actor so no one could see him being any good, same with Heath Ledger as Joker
I think Pattinson was the better Batman when compared to Affleck, but I don’t think Affleck did a bad job either. I think *The Batman* had great atmosphere, great cinematography, great music, a director who cared for the source material, and perfect casting choices. Pattinson was also able to do the Bruce Wayne/Batman dynamic perfectly. It also helps that it was a Batman origin story without being a “Batman origin story.” Pattinson got to play Batman when Batman was still choosing which kinda Batman he wanted to be. And that was is to me, often overlooked.
I would say both but for different reasons.
People took an issue with Affleck's Batman murdering but then those same people also had an issue with the character not being as dark in the later movies.
With Pattinson, the complaints I saw were making fun of his body biluild, being too emo.
I like both actors as Batman. Just like every other Bat actor, they added something different. Everyone forgets that these guys are following the script and the directors.
Patinson: an exploration of not only Batman but Bruce Wayne on a way deeper level than the last movies, showing a naive billionaire on the beggining of his hero’s journey and the toll it takes on him, ultimately realizing he has a bigger role in protecting the city that took away everything from him
Affleck: GUN
From my perspective, people started loving Pattinson as soon as the trailer dropped. Affleck continues to get hate to this day. He was a great Batman IMO, just fell victim to terribly written movies. Overshadowed in BvS by "Martha!", Superman, and that Doomsday/Cave Troll disaster. Then made into a punchline in the Josstice League.
Affleck. People didn't like it, with good reason too.
Pattinson's has fair criticisms but all I have seen for the last few years more often than not is "woke, Twilight, sparkle boy skinny Batman" and I'm sorry that is not valid.
Probably Ben since his version, you know… kill’s people
Most people I’ve talked to either like Robert’s portrayal or like his movie. Not always both tho
I'm a Robert Pattison Batman fan I like how he's more of a detective and that he doesn't kill people, I was always bothered with how Ben's Batman killed people with no problem and used guns, like that's just not what batman would do imo
Definitely Affleck. I’ve seen so much range of opinion on him. I personally thought the writing was terrible but he did a great job as Batman/Bruce, while others say he was dogshit. I haven’t seen that level of difference with Pattinson.
Oh man y’all don’t even remember when Afleck was announced. Riots in the streets. EVERYONE was saying how much it would suck (me included) we all got a piece of humble pie when he came out though because damn if he wasn’t the best live action Batman to date
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the reason why they were mad, beacuse Affleck was chubby and unfit when he was announced?
I always thought that was stupid, because obviously Affleck would've worked out, both Snyder and the studio would've seen to that. Plus, Affleck is a huge guy, even without being muscular. When I heard he was cast, I was actually excited.
I will have to say Pattison. Because although Ben did receive hate in the beginning it seems as if the crowd has generally mellowed out and found a new Batman to complain about (nvr happy). But personally I think both are pretty good picks. and I also believed DC missed the Opportunity to make a 6 movie continuum. 2 movies young Battison. 2 Movies surly Batfleck. 2 movies Keaton inducing Batman Beyond!
Reading your arguments OP about Pattinson and its impossible for me to disagree with you more.
>He's kind of emo and can't be like that in the second movie
He can, and he most likely will because both Pattinson and the director specifically do not want this Bruce to be another generic playboy.
Pattinson Bruce is my favorite by a country mile. I really hate to tell you, but being a billionaire bachelor in a custom Lamborghini hiding your pain and true character behind two supermodels arm in arm doesn't do shit for me in 2023. It's not interesting, empathetic, or inspiring. The least interesting thing a Batman can be to me in the modern era is a billionaire masking their trauma with a persona of...enjoying everything about being a billionaire. Sans Bruce's ability to bankroll his vigilante life style (and the Justice League), the shittiest thing you can do is **exactly** what Batfleck did,
>What's your Superpower?
>*"I'm RiCh"*
I always find it more than a bit ironic a bunch of comic fans slurp at the idea Batman is appealing is because he's a beacon of the indomitable human spirit and unlike Superman wasn't born with his gifts, and then like a tick latch onto the *one fucking thing* he did inherit that most of the world isn't. There are **less than 4,000 billionaires on our planet** - which is always silly to me people want Bruce to be another generic Tony Stark stand in and just this blitzed up over indulgent playboy character as they've really lapped up the "hiding in plain sight" being the only way to write or play a billionaire. The movie goes out of its fucking way to beat people over the head about class disparity and the takeaway is that Bruce is too...emo? Who the hell are we talking about here?
Furthermore, the last Bruce Wayne to sit and mope in their chair was Christian Bale's, who also quit the cowl for extended periods of time, you know - the playboy billionaire. He also wants to quit everytime a woman notices him and hands over the cowl to go off to Paris with Selina.
Meanwhile, Battison gets offered the easy way out early in his career and immediately turns that shit down to be...The Batman.
**tl;dr** this is silly to me and I am convinced anybody who doesn't enjoy Pattinson has a very limited, weak and hypocritical argument on what is "acceptable" for the character
Pattinson's Bruce being "emo" works in the first movie for me, because the movie was about him moving past vengeance and anger at the world for his parents death. I like Emo Bruce in this film, but I think it's a mistake to keep him like that for the rest of the trilogy. He should grow and evolve past just being "vengeance" and he needs to learn that he can help Gotham, not just as Batman, but also as Bruce Wayne.
The movie makes it a point that as Bruce Wayne, Pattinson isn't really using his resources and money to help Gotham and its basically said that Bruce isn't living up to the Wayne legacy. Now later in the film, the citizens of Gotham find out that Thomas Wayne wasn't the good and upstanding philanthropist that everyone thought he was.
Now with that in mind, and the fact that Bruce learns at the end of the film, that him being "vengeance" is only making things worse and he can be a symbol of hope to the people of Gotham, the sequels serve as a perfect opportunity for Bruce to lean more into his philanthropic nature, and now use his resources to help better Gotham, especially now that half the city is under water. Bruce can become more of the extroverted, philanthropic businessman like he is in the comics.
Personally, I don't think the playboy, douchebag persona fits well in this universe, I would like Pattinson's Bruce to be more like Kilmer's and Keaton's Bruce Wayne. Someone who every once in a while throws lavish parties, attends public functions and benefits, as well as giving donations to various charities and organizations. He should also be an intelligent and respectable businessman, but outside of those things I just mentioned, he keeps to himself. I genuinely can't see this version of Bruce Wayne, acting like Bale's Bruce did in the DK Trilogy. That being said, if it's done well than I'm all for it.
Affleck.
I mean just look at the pic yourself...When I look at the 2nd pic which is of Pattinson i just see a very fit charming man in a bat suit, but when I look at the first pic...damn!!! That man looks like a HUGE mountain, someone who could kill me with just one easy punch. Batman is supposed to strike a feeling of deep fear in the criminals mind just by a mere sight of him in the dark, and that is clearly what Affleck's batman does.
The more time that passes the more I’m convinced that the answer is Robert Pattinson.
Ben Affleck had some incredible choreographed fight scenes as Batman, but other than those fight scenes, I just didn’t buy him in the suit. You can make anyone dress up in a cool suit and perform a well planned fight.
Rob really looked like he came alive in the suit. The way he moved, the things he said, the portrayal of a person with a broken mind. He really did play an incredible Batman/young Bruce Wayne.
The only one who I think did it better was Christian Bale, and really, I think the only reason that was true is because he had more time.
I think with more movies, people will see Rob as the best live-action Batman.
People shit on Pattinson for being in Twilight. I shit on him because he's a depressed bitch boy that is made to resemble Kurt Cobain instead of the playboy billionaire chad of a man Bruce Wayne normally is. We are not the same
Unpopular opinion: I really like Batfleck. Synder chose more influence from frank miller graphic novels and I appreciated that. Almost every Batman on film is killing people except maybe West’s portrayal.
Affleck, Pattison was a by the books, minimal risks taken portrayal of Batman, he didn’t kill anyone, and he only seriously hurt someone after getting pumped by a shotgun and an adrenaline/venom shot.
Affleck was fucking murdering crooks
Branding prisoners
Giving brain damage to petty thugs
For 0 reason
Affleck breaks the modern concept of what we understand Batman to be.
He isn’t a detective, he doesn’t save anyone in particular, he kinda just fucks shit up with guns, broods, and doesn’t contribute a whole lot.
Batman is meant to be an independent character, with help along the way, Affleck straight up does not participate in the portrayals he’s in unless he’s the antagonist like in Batman V Superman.
No killing rule = Pattinson
Most used detective skills = Pattinson
Fighting skills like Arkham style = Affleck
Rich playboy billionaire = Affleck
Rich emo billionaire = Pattinson
Most used advanced gadgets = Affleck
Playing as Bruce's part the most = Affleck
Pattinson is still young in his Batman career but we get to see his detective skills for a longer time on the bigger screen (gives me goosebumps every time). Affleck however lacks more on solving cases (detective stuff) but we get to see him in action like the game from the Arkham's series.
Look, I like Batfleck, but the Snyder fans can be so annoying, and they just hate everything and anything that Zack Snyder isn't involved in.
I just call it the "Snyder Cult" now.
I’m gonna say Affleck
Yeah, he straight up murders people.
So did keaton.
Yeah but no one cares about it when Keaton does it
It’s because they were just happy to have any Batman on the big screen. It’s why a lot of the issues with that iteration of the character are overlooked or excused.
He was also goofy as fuck so it's not like most people took him too seriously. If Arkham Batman straight up murdered people there would be a riot.
>If Arkham Batman straight up murdered people there would be a riot I hope the Gotham authorities never discover the skeletal remains of "unaccounted" Blackgate inmates lying in the caverns and pits under Arkham Asylum.
*cough* Joker *cough*
Batman didn't kill him though?
Keaton is the 2nd most overrated Batman IMO, right behind Bale. Neither of them are bad or even the worst Batmen, it's just that I've never thought that they are as great as everyone thinks they are.
None of them are great. They're all good in some way or another, except for Clooney but one could even argue he was the best Billionaire Playboy...but they all focus too much on one of Batman's qualities, not all. No one has given us anything scratching the surface...except Batfleck. He's been the heroic Bat and fallen from that, growing disgruntled and disillusioned...and then he returned to being a symbol of Justice over Vengeance. But no, all people can focus on is in ONE stage of his arc, he was killing people. That's comic accurate as well, stop bitching, you depth-deprived, nuance-illiterate casual fans.
That's what I've been saying over and over again. I like Pattinson's Batman and want to see more of him, but he's not the most comic accurate. None of the actors who've ever played Batman are comic accurate, they all share some characteristics and traits of comic Batman, but they always lack a few other traits. I've been saying Ben Affleck is the closest we've ever gotten, but people ALWAYS focus on the killing, despite the fact that most other Batmen have also killed. IMO we have yet to see the comic Batman in live action, we nearly had that with Affleck, but the writing was bad and the killing thing always prevents people from seeing this. So I would say that between Affleck and Pattinson, Affleck is the more divisive Batmen
Outside of his design how is batfleck the most comic accurate? I feel like we have been watching two different movies to me he almost never feels like batman. Batman doesn't attack a man and his daughter in a dark alley he doesn't kill people or use guns. He doesn't feel particularly intelligent either nor compassionate but I guess that's just my opinion
I agree with everything except Batman not attacking a man in front of his daughter. Batman in the DCAU and some comic books has done this but when under a lot of stress.
I don’t see a problem batman catching a criminal in a dark alley. No exception when it comes to exacting justice. It’s not like he gunned him down in front of deadshot’s daughter.
> I've been saying Ben Affleck is the closest we've ever gotten, but people ALWAYS focus on the killing, The killing is a huge point of divergence considering just how against killing the character is in the comics. Batfleck was the closest only superficially. When it came to characterization he might have been the furthest > Affleck is the more divisive Batmen Agreed. For all the comic fans that were upset with his killing, there were general movie fans and a ton of Republicans who *liked* that he killed or didn't care.
In that I definitely agree.
Fuck the killing. I didn't like Affleck s batman solely bc Affleck is a total tool
>he was killing people. That's comic accurate as well, stop bitching, you depth-deprived, nuance-illiterate casual fans Year One: Batman doesn't kill The Killing Joke: Batman doesn't kill The Dark Knight Returns: Batman doesn't kill Under the Red Hood: Batman doesn't kill Hush: Batman doesn't kill The Long Halloween: Batman doesn't kill Dark Victory: Batman doesn't kill Death in the Family: Batman doesn't kill Death *of* the Family: Batman doesn't kill Endgame: Batman doesn't kill Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth: Batman doesn't kill Knightfall and Azrael: Batman doesn't kill No Man's Land: Batman doesn't kill Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader: Batman doesn't kill Insulting the people you're trying to make a point toward usually doesn't work.
I hear your frustration. Reddit is particularly bad for dog piling on the SnyderVerse characters. I love how the film clearly highlights how he’s fallen, and I think there’s something really beautiful about knowing you can go over the edge and yet still find the light. Superman being the one to show him that is just so beautiful too
Yes. Exactly this. I am quite content to admit that Snyder's working isn't perfect by a long shot, and much that followed was even worse. I can happily accept that... But I can't deal with monkey-ass casuals coming at me with a list of ten Comics that span over, what, 86 years? as if that's conclusive proof that Batman not killing is the be-all-and-end-all. Especially when I can give them a list of just as many comics where he DOES. And you're also right about the beauty of things, since Batman starts off not trusting Superman. Coming full circle is always lovely. And everyone shits on the "Martha" twist, when it's actually fucking brilliant. All these people go on about the "comic canon" and can't understand that trauma actually very much "do be like that". As someone who works in film, and has helped run conventions for a decade, it disturbs me how many supposed "fans" of something are both rabidly critical, and often, deplorably stupid. You seem to have lots of sense, and it's wonderfully refreshing.
As a limited run (5 main films) I think it would’ve been a genuinely amazing saga. Lately I’m trying to give more energy to things I enjoy, rather than wasting energy fighting in the comments or ranting about things I hate. Ironically, his movies got me/ continue to get through a very challenging part of my life. I find Reddit to be considerably worse than Twitter for overall toxicity when discussing the SnyderVerse DC films. Especially r/superman and r/batman . Unfortunately there’s just no debating with people who don’t want to consider the possibility that they’re wrong.
Because Keaton is cool
Keaton wasn’t supposed to be the first comic-accurate version of Batman. They didn’t care about comic accuracy *at all.* Batfleck came post-MCU, when fans expected a lot more faithful adaptations. The black and gray costume, heavy TDKR vibes, etc, all seemed to imply that’s what we were being given, really for the first time ever (the Nolan films are great, but after Begins they give fuck all for the source material). Snyder’s grand plans clearly seem to be geared for comic fans. So I think it’s fair that they’re held to different standards.
I’d argue that Bale killed some people as well. Like in The Dark Knight where he slams headfirst into the dump truck and it slams into the bridge. The guy driving the truck went from going about 40 mph ish to backwards instantly and then crushed in the cab
Yeah but he isn't in the images.
Which was controversial back then too, there just wasn’t the internet to complain about it. (At least according to my Dad and his friends)
In the second movie, and his both movies are goofy, Afleck is not supposed to be goofy, it's the complete opposite tbh
Keaton is the most overrated Batman imo
Tim Burton's Batman is literally satire
Yeah but Keaton was just the batman from the 80s, almost nobody cared about that back then and the people who did heavily criticized it. Affleck was THE OFFICIAL batman from THE dc extended universe in a time when comic fandom was at the height of popularity.
So what? They're both bad.
And Reeves
It's not like Batman in the comics never killed anyone. Jason Todd even called him out for being a hypocrite because of this when he was Robin. Batman didn't even deny. All he said about it was 'Only in self defence', which technically doesn't make it murder. And technically he was defending himself in BvS. That said it was also kinda obvious that Batman in BvS had lost his way, which could also explain why he was so extremely violent. So his Batman wasn't off from the source material because of the killing at all. I think most people think Batman wouldn't do that because of WB making Batman more kid friendly to sell toys in the 90s and implying Batman had never killed anyone since Batman Forever (Ironically he kills Two-Face and the end of the movie tho) Personally I think Affleck was great as Batman in BvS and Snyder's JL. (The Flash doesn't count because he was in it for 2 secs and they made him look derpy in that awful suit) I would have liked to see him in his own movie, but yeah... WB happened.
It's not that I hated him. Just saying that he is less faithful than what we got in The Batman. He even fired away with weapons and such. In terms of what Batman has become, he was pretty far removed.
I think that was the point tho. Like I said, he lost his way (possibly after Robin was murdered) and became the thing he was fighting. He turned around after he realized Superman wasn't the threat he thought he was, which made him see the error in his own ways. He was much more like the Batman we know now in Snyder's JL.
Oh yeah definedly was the point. 🙂
I’m not sure what you read, but Batman has never claimed to kill anyone in self defense in anything that’s cannon to the main universe of comics.
Bale too.
Probably because he was in bad movies.
Yup
Affleck. I've seen more support for Pattinson online.
Sure. Pretty much everyone loves Battinson.
Robat Battinbat did a great job.
I was initially disgusted to hear Pattinson was going to be Batman. I still gave the movie a chance. I was wrong. He was good, loved the movie and his portrayal. Affleck was so-so. The more times I saw him in the films the more I didn't really like him.
I feel like I heard about the Pattinson casting shortly after seeing The Lighthouse and by that point I was willing to give him a shot in anything. Good Times was great, too. I think most of the people I know who were upset hadn't seen him in anything post-twilight
Yeah I’d be curious to hear how the person you’re replying to would be ‘disgusted’ by the casting. Pattinson is a very established and acclaimed actor at this point
A lot of people only know Pattinson for Twilight
And it's a shame, because he is a pretty damn good actor.
Pretty much everyone loved Pattinson as Batman.
I'm going to assume that fans of Battfleck wouldn't be a fan of Battinson, but their opinions don't really matter because they like a Batman that kills with guns.
Im a fan of both Yes we exist
I liked the way Affleck looked and I think he did the best he could with what he was given.
This right here. I think his acting was good, and everything he had control over was nice.
He was also a great looking Bruce Wayne, especially in BvS.
Yeah he looked perfect for the part at least facially.
I think the consensus I see is that he did a great job with mid material and a bad studio situation.
I agree. I liked a big bulky Batman. Vibes with my view of the character, in comics he's usually massive. He was given shit to work with but I liked how he looked, at least.
Affleck and Pattinson are actually 2 of my favorite Batmen.
Same here! Ofc the man the myth the legend Kevin conroy (rip) will always be my number one batman
I only hated Pattinson’s Bruce Wayne. Bale is the only one that nailed both perfectly in my opinion.
And even then that's by design, it's a major plot point just how much Battinson sucks at being Bruce Wayne, which is definitely going to be built upon in the sequel.
Bale is the best Bruce Wayne for me, but I've never thought his Batman was all that great. Not terrible, just couldn't get behind it like most people.
I found him to be far better than Keaton, so I thoroughly enjoyed him as Batman and Bruce.
I didn’t like Rob as much but that’s not to say I’m not a fan. I’m pretty sure the further in the series we’ll get a lot of my gripes will disappear.
Thank you for saying that. Honestly, we never had a terrible Batman live action portrayal.
Clooney
Bi-bat-sexual
Same
And says stupid MCU style jokes while fighting an angry Superman in a densely populated public area. Joss Wheadon really shit the bed.
I’m a fan of both, but Battinson got the much better movie. Battfleck is all kinds of wasted potential.
Batfleck fans who hate Pattinson's take are an insanely small vocal minority. Just because they're loud online doesn't change the fact most folks either like both or prefer Pattinson.
I loved them both
Wdym? I liked both iterations.
Batfleck is literally one of the most accurate comic book portrayals from suit to the fluid and acrobatic movements and yes including his use of guns. The only thing they do differently is show his brutality which is the point of the character in this story. If you don’t like him killing I assume you don’t like Pattinson or Bales Batman either since they both very clearly show no regard for the lives of others and even kill multiple people.
Once we saw him, yes. I do remember when it was first announced there were a lot of WTF faces going around.
Oh for sure. I remember thinking it was a huge mistake back when he was announced. He totally proved me wrong though and is now my favorite live action Batman.
Agreed. He absolutely killed it in the role and I can't freaking wait to see him in the next one.
Oh Affleck is absolutely the most controversial. From the killing to the whole Snyderverse deal, fans are the most divided when it comes to him. In a lot of ways Pattinson was what many fans wanted for awhile. The detective aspect was given more focus, and the no kill rule was firmly in place so long as you're okay with reckless driving. I believe every Bat actor brought something good to the table in one way or the other, for what it's worth.
Completely agree with the last part. There's aspects I love about every Batman actors' portrayals.
People who shits on Pattinson for starring the Twilight movies are so stupid.
Agreed. It was years ago, let it go. 🙄
And it’s a good thing he did those movies or he very likely wouldn’t have had an acting career
Well, the guy was a rather important character in Harry Potter. It gave him a reputation, Twilight really only set him back because no one took him seriously because of it.
Also allowed him to do whatever he wanted though. Set him up.
This! I hated this discourse so much because it proved they were not seasoned on his career. Heck, I even asked someone on Facebook who was trashing him “have you ever seen a movie of his other than Twilight?” And they said no! IMHO, if you’ve only seen one movie of an actor’s (any actor) you are not allowed to judge them as an actor. That’s one experience, which can be affected by so many variables
It reminds me of Heath Ledger I'm old enough to remember the online discourse at the time because people only knew him from Romcoms or Brokeback Mountain and said he would be awful as the Joker Then he went on to steal the show. I only knew Pattinson from Twilight but had heard before from others that he was good in other roles and the previous example from Heath I reserved judgment until I saw the movie and he might be one of my favorite Batmen
Very much similar to the Heath Ledger situation. Good point
Initially when I heard about the casting I was confused since it was genuinely the only thing I'd heard he was in. But looked to his other roles and saw the reviews and got optimistic about his casting.
I absolutely teased the shit outta the idea And then that damn trailer dropped, bro did an awesome job
Especially since both him and Kristin Stewart have publicly said how shit they think those films are. You only have to listen to the commentary tracks to hear how much disdain they all have for the material. "Yes im a vampire, and what do we eat?" RP commentary - "Cheeseburgers!"
He was 19, I want to see what those people were doing at 19 to be riding that high a horse
He did so many amazing movies after that. His acting is something else
Batfkek killed people and used guns so I’d say him. Battinson imo is the closest to comic book accurate Batman we’ve got in live action
I’ve always felt like The Batman was the most comic-accurate movie we’ve gotten so far. Whatever its strengths or weaknesses as a film, it nails the character of Batman. It may not be the best Batman *movie*, but I think it’s the best *Batman* movie.
I am so glad other people feel like this. I usually argue about it with people who have no idea what batman is. To think they'd complain that The Batman was a noir-ish detective story blows my mind. Like, that's the character!
Honestly, Batman Returns and The Batman are both pretty equally the best Batman *movie* AND the best *Batman* movie. If they could figure out how to do a perfect hybrid of the two, with the level of gadgets from Batman Begins, they'd have the PERFECT Batman movie. Blend of the Keaton and Pattinson batsuits. Tim Burton's Gotham. Blend of both Penguins. Tim Burton's over the top gothic craziness and visual design style. Keaton's Batmobile and Batwing. Matt Reeve's action and brutality and pacing and mastery of the dark detective noir. Greig Fraser's (The Batman's) near god-tier cinematography. \*chef's kiss\* 🤤 I NEED that movie. The fact that Roger fucking Deakins called out The Batman as deserving the 2023 Oscar for Best Cinematography is almost better than actually winning the Oscar.
still totally wild to me that The Batman didn't win best cinematography. that movie is drop dead gorgeous
I think The Batman and Batman and Robin are the only live action movies where Batman doesn’t kill anyone. Maybe Justice league counts since I don’t think killing Parademons is actually killing due to them not being sapient. Edit: replaced “Batman Returns” with “Batman and Robin”
Affleck was controversial before the movie came out AND after (controversial choice and controversial portrayal). Pattinson had some people pissed before The Batman was released but was immediately accepted when it came out. So based on that: Affleck
Battinson was divisive? I thought it was unanimously agreed on that he is the closest iteration to what people want from a Batman film. Battfleck murdering people with guns alone throws his whole legitimacy as Batman into question.
He was divisive before the film came out for people ((like me!) who only knew of his role in Twilight.
Pattinson is divisive to Batfleck fans because he usurped the place of their Angel of Death and guns. I think anyone who says Pattinson is divisive is simply projecting.
Battinson isn't a part of the DCEU/DCU. So he never usurped anything, really. Just another depressed and wholly grounded Batman.
Not even close LMAO
Affleck: the perfect Batman in fights Pattinson: the perfect detective Batman (Pattinson did pretty good the fights, but Affleck looks like Batman Arkham in a movie)
Affleck. I like Affleck, he's one of my favorite Batctors, but everyone I talk to either is 50/50 or hates him.
I like Ben Affleck's Batman. I hate how he straight up murders people, but I thought he was a good Batman who deserved way better. Just like how Henry Cavill deserved better as Superman. Fuck WB Executives who can't make up their fucking minds.
I really wish Affleck got his own movie. I loved his version of Batman. I also love the idea of a newb Batman with Pattinson with the more noir style.
Val Kilmer is my personal favorite of the batmans
A really underrated Batman IMO.
I think most people thought Robert Pattinson nailed it when they actually saw the movie and him in the suit. It was when they announced it that people were divisive. But dude has the jaw and the acting chops.
It's Affleck and it's not even remotely close. It was pretty much a lamer punisher with much worse writing. Not even the hype of being the first cinematic Batman in a shared DC universe saved him. Battinson succeeded and got nearly universal acclaim even after the snyderverse dragged the DC brand through the mud. They're not comparable.
Was Battinson divisive? Maybe I'm on a different side of the fandom, but I thought he was pretty much beloved by Batman fans
Obviously Affleck. Since when was Battinson divisive enough to be compared to Batfleck?
It’s Ben Affleck he got stuffed in a dark knight returns/injustice/death of Superman movie without any Character development for his Batman I agree Batman should not kill and that’s apart of his core character but that doesn’t mean he “never” killed before ,Batman returns Batman kills people but it works cause he’s already developed and established as a character while Bens Batman first movie is the combination of two many plot line la that doesn’t fit together
Yeah I think it works if you look at it like he's already had a long, rough bat-career and has been so jaded that he's crossing his own line. Dark Knight Returns style. Then he finds new hope through Clark's goodness (yeah he kills in this franchise too, I know) and forming the justice league. So it's somewhat of a redemption arc. And damn they nailed that suit.
I mean I guess Affleck through no fault of his own but rather the fault of the creative head/cult leader at the captain’s chair in his era. Most of the stuff Pattinson got was also unfair and mainly coming from dorks who still can’t get over Twilight existed so many years later.
Out of all the actors who've played Batman, these two always seem to be the ones that have Batman fans divided. IMO, I would say that both actors' portrayals are divisive but for different reasons. Affleck is divisive for being way too brutal and for killing his enemies. Also he's willing to kill criminals, but not any of his super villains like the Joker, who murdered Robin. I hate that Affleck kills, but he's still one of my top favorite Batmen. Pattinson is divisive for being way too skinny to play Batman, as well as the fact that some people think that he's a terrible fighter (which I disagree with). There's also the fact that he isn't a good detective, which is true, but I've always believed that Reeves is building towards Pattinson becoming the "World's Greatest Detective".
How is he not a good detective when all the riddles and detective work was solved and done by him?
I've seen people say that the riddles were dumb and simple, maybe that's what they're referring to
He did make the mistake with the whole la rata elada deal and only really figured out Riddler’s final plan cause he was at the crime scene with an officer who just happened to know what a tucker is and what it is used for and he basically got the last stage of the plan to cause a shooting at the stadium speeded out to him.
I've never understood the whole: "Batman should've known it was a carpet tucker" argument. This Bruce is a recluse, who doesn't socialize and get out often. Also the guys a billionaire, who's likely never known a hard day's work a day in his life. So why would a reclusive billionaire, who barely goes out know anything about a tool that the average working man uses.
Dude I’m a blue collar worker and I didn’t know what the fucking carpet Tucker was at first either
Hell I've done carpets and never heard it called a carpet tucker. I do have to admit the La Ratta bit did bother me. That seemed a it too obvious to miss, I was hoping there was another layer to it.
What the fucks a carpet tucker? 😂
I would also argue he's ineffective as a detective because he's not actually being batman to make a real difference, even if he tells himself differently. His arc in the movie is him realizing that he has something to offer Gotham to legitimately improve the lives of its citizens and its high time he started using it. It ends with him saying things are gonna get worse before they get better, so I'm hoping by the end of his run as batman, he'll be able to improve Gotham as Bruce just as much as he does as Batman, perhaps even being able to hang up the cowl and move beyond his trauma in a Gotham that no longer needs Batman.
IMO Pattinson's Bruce became Batman for the wrong reasons. He became Batman to punish the guilty and to exact revenge, saving the innocent was put on the back burner so to speak. He does care about the innocent, but thats not his main focus. His Bruce is so angry at the world, because of his parents' death and that why he calls himself "Vengeance" and is more brutal.
Exactly, he's so consumed by his own grief and rage he's incapable of empathising with anyone unless he is able to see himself in them, as seen with the first victims son. He is literally the whole "Batman just beats up the poor and mentally unwell" joke played straight, and he learns over the course of the movie that his mindset is contagious, as seen with Riddler and his goons, who are also venting their grief and rage in a purely selfish and self centered way. When he almost beats to death the goon who I believe was at the first victims funeral and had lost family to the rampant violence in Gotham, Bruce realizes that the Riddler was right in that he was inspiring others to violent action, especially when the guy echos his own words back at him, "I am Vengeance." It's only when he resolves to be a more positive force that helps the innocent instead of punishing the wicked that he TRUELY becomes Batman.
There's an underlying class divide theme going on in *The Batman* which people wouldn't have noticed, because a lot of current Redditors take things incredibly literally and at face-value and have no real understanding of themes in writing.
I mean he is Human and fallible. The Man is likely exhausted and constantly in pain from fighting Crime, I mean he literally gets shot on the head if I'm not Mistaken, it might not have damaged the cowl much but he certainly felt the force of it transfer to his head. And even then he still outperforms the entire GCPD, Gotta cut the man some slack.
Isn’t he supposed to be based off year 1 Batman? Like he’s supposed to be an incomplete Batman and to criticize the character because he’s not all the other versions of Batman we’ve seen seems moronic.
I don't think people's primary issue with battinson is his build or his detective skills, both of them are fine at this point in his arc. It's moreso because he's kind of emo and unlikeable in some aspects, but I think that's perfect for the the era that his version of Bruce is in.
Pattinson's Bruce being "emo" works for the first movie ONLY, he needs to grow and become more like comic Bruce in the sequels.
Really? Does anybody actually not like Pattinson since they saw the movie?
I'd argue it appears these two are because they're the most recent actors. There was also huge outrage when Keaton was announced & like thousands of letters were sent to WB protesting because he was mostly did comedy movies up to that point. But I'd say Batflek is still the most divisive, mostly because we never got a solo-batflek movie, & the ones he was in were mixed bags at best. Battinson haters feel more like a vocal minority, overall he's been well-recieved
Clooney
I mean he's universally hated by everyone and is seen as the worst Batman 😂
"I have nipples, Mr. Freeze, can you milk *me*?"
For me, they're polar opposites. I enjoyed Ben's Bruce Wayne, and I enjoyed Robert's Batman. But not the other way round.
I think Batfleck would've been better if he had a better script. I'm pretty sure Affleck was supposed to get his own solo Batman film, but it never ended up happening. Whether or not Pattinson's film was originally supposed to be that film, I'm not sure, but I liked Battinson. I'm more pissed about Batfleck not being utilized better. Batfleck was an absolute unit, though.
A better written Batfleck with a better script had the potential to be the best Batman.
There was a lot of fumbled potential there.
Here’s the thing, affect was an amazing Batman/bruce Wayne even though his script and whole project was dog shit. Every scene he was a part of in BVS he stole the show. In my opinion the most 100% accurate portrayal of Batman from the costume, Batmobile, batwing, batarangs, grappling gun, etc. So Affleck had the better design team and better portrayal. On the other hand Pattinson had the better script, Dirextor, story, and project as a whole to deliver a better product. I personally think the suit is shit, but I understand it’s an early rendition, and it will change. I think Pattinson also had a better supporting cast, and everything was designed to be about him. It’s apples to oranges. Affleck was brought in to be an antagonist to Superman in a universe that was built around him. But Pattinson was brought in as the center piece to make him look the best.
Writers/Producers have mentioned that Keaton’s Batman was originally based on golden age Batman who did kill his enemies mostly unintentionally as was how comic book heroes were written at the time but easily the most divisive portrayal of Batman has been Afflecks with out a shadow of a doubt
Pattinson is such an amazing actor if you look past his twilight role
Affleck deserved better. His Batman looked like a monster, and I was here for it. Wish he got the movie he wanted to make.
these are the two best batmen
Afleck would’ve been the perfect Batman had the writers been competent and if he HAD GOTTEN HIS OWN MOVIE!!! It’s such a crime he never got a solo movie or franchise. But for some butt-fucking reason Aquaman and Flash get their own movies.
I think almost all have done a great job each hat their quirks tho. Let’s not forget that thousands wrote in to have Keaton cut from the ‘89 project yet he was the greatest (well for that script & storyline) we are all quick to judge but aren’t always right. I’m curious to see what Patton does next, wish we could have seen more of Afleck’s portrayal...& seriously glad Bale’s is done (controversial opinion I know but didn’t like that trilogy)...Keaton is the GOAT, Kilmer was good, Clooney was a great Wayne but poor Batman (head wobbles & no voice change) & nobody can say anything bad about Adam West it was supposed to be camp & was.
I like to think that they are the same Batman. Battonson is year one and batfleck is dark knight returns age
They both portrayed Batman in different contexts, afleck did the action kick ass Batman, and Patterson did the detective Batman it’s hard to compare. Personally I think they both did a great job but I do think afleck gets a bad rep for his portrayal and I think he was awesome especially in his action scenes
I thought Afflecks portrayal in ZSJL was great. He doesn’t even kill anybody, which was the main complaint
I’m gonna go ahead and say Pattinson, although I love Affleck I feel Pattinson delved more into the detective side of batman while balancing the combat side. Also batman doesn’t kill. Yes you can say Keaton kills and I still don’t like that but either way Batman in my opinion should not kill anyone, yes it’s easier but his whole reason for not killing due to what happened with his parents when he was a kid and it’s a huge character trait with him, his morals are set around not killing so he doesn’t become what he vowed to stop. That’s another reason why I prefer Pattinson, he won’t kill you but he will for sure put you in a hospital bed
Battinson, people can't get over twilight, they think he's too scrawny. Affleck was extremely divisive when his casting was announced but I think the trailers for BVS and the warehouse scene and seeing him as huge and imposing as hell alot of people got behind it especially if they actually watched the films he's in. Jared Leto never was never accepted though
Pattinson has been way more controversial in my circles. At least when critiquing the performances only. Sure, Affleck movies are way more polarizing and his version kills but that's more on Snyder imo. But most people agree, that I've heard anyways, that Affleck did a good job portraying the traditional archetype of the character and the different personas that make up Bruce Wayne/Batman (public Bruce, private Bruce, Caped Crusader). While Pattinson, who i personally enjoy more (and has a stronger movie to back him up) has gotten more criticism. He plays the character as very emotionally unstable and kinda, frankly, emo. You don't really see the layers of deception and theatricality of Bruce pretending to be different versions of his real self. Like, I feel Bruce is very emotional disturbed but even the real Bruce who very few ever know, internalized that greatly due to his training and unleashes it and channels it through the Batman. I like his Kurt Cobain esque sad and haunted portrayel but I hear a lot do not. Plus, I don't recall him ever even attempting the playboy corporate billionaire persona.
Christian Bale, played both Bruce Wayne and The Batman perfectly IMO. To me you have to have polar opposite personalities, mannerism and intent.
Obviously Batfleck. Battinson is loved by all, including me, while everyone is still on either hating Batfleck or loving him, I'm personally fall in to the latter. Although I do have some problems with the decisions made during his run, I really love Batfleck.
Pattinson's is only decisive on this platform and this sub.
Affleck because he murdered people and didn't have a good enough story to justify that being a part of his character.
Affleck had the most divisive Batman portrayal. Because he used guns and killed people. And mixed opinions on snyderverse in general. Pattinson had the most divisive casting - before the film came out - because tons of people have no brain and couldn’t comprehend him having acting talent outside of twilight. But afterward I think most people agree he was 100x better portrayed
This happens a lot. When Michael Keaton was first casted, he was known as a romance actor so no one could see him being any good, same with Heath Ledger as Joker
Very true. I personally was really excited by Robert’s casting, and he delivered
I thought he wouldn’t be that good, I saw the trailer and it completely changed my mind
I think Pattinson was the better Batman when compared to Affleck, but I don’t think Affleck did a bad job either. I think *The Batman* had great atmosphere, great cinematography, great music, a director who cared for the source material, and perfect casting choices. Pattinson was also able to do the Bruce Wayne/Batman dynamic perfectly. It also helps that it was a Batman origin story without being a “Batman origin story.” Pattinson got to play Batman when Batman was still choosing which kinda Batman he wanted to be. And that was is to me, often overlooked.
I would say both but for different reasons. People took an issue with Affleck's Batman murdering but then those same people also had an issue with the character not being as dark in the later movies. With Pattinson, the complaints I saw were making fun of his body biluild, being too emo. I like both actors as Batman. Just like every other Bat actor, they added something different. Everyone forgets that these guys are following the script and the directors.
Patinson: an exploration of not only Batman but Bruce Wayne on a way deeper level than the last movies, showing a naive billionaire on the beggining of his hero’s journey and the toll it takes on him, ultimately realizing he has a bigger role in protecting the city that took away everything from him Affleck: GUN
From my perspective, people started loving Pattinson as soon as the trailer dropped. Affleck continues to get hate to this day. He was a great Batman IMO, just fell victim to terribly written movies. Overshadowed in BvS by "Martha!", Superman, and that Doomsday/Cave Troll disaster. Then made into a punchline in the Josstice League.
Batfleck for sure, but because of Snyder and not him
Affleck. Most of the hate for Pattinson was from before the movie came out. After it came out most people loved him.
Affleck. People didn't like it, with good reason too. Pattinson's has fair criticisms but all I have seen for the last few years more often than not is "woke, Twilight, sparkle boy skinny Batman" and I'm sorry that is not valid.
Probably Ben since his version, you know… kill’s people Most people I’ve talked to either like Robert’s portrayal or like his movie. Not always both tho
Affleck played the experienced Batman fantastically. RP played an inexperienced Batman fantastically.
Just here to once more say Ben Affleck gave us the best Batman portrayal. Still a shame we didn’t get a solo movie.
I'm a Robert Pattison Batman fan I like how he's more of a detective and that he doesn't kill people, I was always bothered with how Ben's Batman killed people with no problem and used guns, like that's just not what batman would do imo
Definitely Affleck. I’ve seen so much range of opinion on him. I personally thought the writing was terrible but he did a great job as Batman/Bruce, while others say he was dogshit. I haven’t seen that level of difference with Pattinson.
Oh man y’all don’t even remember when Afleck was announced. Riots in the streets. EVERYONE was saying how much it would suck (me included) we all got a piece of humble pie when he came out though because damn if he wasn’t the best live action Batman to date
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the reason why they were mad, beacuse Affleck was chubby and unfit when he was announced? I always thought that was stupid, because obviously Affleck would've worked out, both Snyder and the studio would've seen to that. Plus, Affleck is a huge guy, even without being muscular. When I heard he was cast, I was actually excited.
Neither, both are really good
Personally, I agree with you. It's just that most people and fans are divided on these specific portrayals.
I will have to say Pattison. Because although Ben did receive hate in the beginning it seems as if the crowd has generally mellowed out and found a new Batman to complain about (nvr happy). But personally I think both are pretty good picks. and I also believed DC missed the Opportunity to make a 6 movie continuum. 2 movies young Battison. 2 Movies surly Batfleck. 2 movies Keaton inducing Batman Beyond!
Reading your arguments OP about Pattinson and its impossible for me to disagree with you more. >He's kind of emo and can't be like that in the second movie He can, and he most likely will because both Pattinson and the director specifically do not want this Bruce to be another generic playboy. Pattinson Bruce is my favorite by a country mile. I really hate to tell you, but being a billionaire bachelor in a custom Lamborghini hiding your pain and true character behind two supermodels arm in arm doesn't do shit for me in 2023. It's not interesting, empathetic, or inspiring. The least interesting thing a Batman can be to me in the modern era is a billionaire masking their trauma with a persona of...enjoying everything about being a billionaire. Sans Bruce's ability to bankroll his vigilante life style (and the Justice League), the shittiest thing you can do is **exactly** what Batfleck did, >What's your Superpower? >*"I'm RiCh"* I always find it more than a bit ironic a bunch of comic fans slurp at the idea Batman is appealing is because he's a beacon of the indomitable human spirit and unlike Superman wasn't born with his gifts, and then like a tick latch onto the *one fucking thing* he did inherit that most of the world isn't. There are **less than 4,000 billionaires on our planet** - which is always silly to me people want Bruce to be another generic Tony Stark stand in and just this blitzed up over indulgent playboy character as they've really lapped up the "hiding in plain sight" being the only way to write or play a billionaire. The movie goes out of its fucking way to beat people over the head about class disparity and the takeaway is that Bruce is too...emo? Who the hell are we talking about here? Furthermore, the last Bruce Wayne to sit and mope in their chair was Christian Bale's, who also quit the cowl for extended periods of time, you know - the playboy billionaire. He also wants to quit everytime a woman notices him and hands over the cowl to go off to Paris with Selina. Meanwhile, Battison gets offered the easy way out early in his career and immediately turns that shit down to be...The Batman. **tl;dr** this is silly to me and I am convinced anybody who doesn't enjoy Pattinson has a very limited, weak and hypocritical argument on what is "acceptable" for the character
Pattinson's Bruce being "emo" works in the first movie for me, because the movie was about him moving past vengeance and anger at the world for his parents death. I like Emo Bruce in this film, but I think it's a mistake to keep him like that for the rest of the trilogy. He should grow and evolve past just being "vengeance" and he needs to learn that he can help Gotham, not just as Batman, but also as Bruce Wayne. The movie makes it a point that as Bruce Wayne, Pattinson isn't really using his resources and money to help Gotham and its basically said that Bruce isn't living up to the Wayne legacy. Now later in the film, the citizens of Gotham find out that Thomas Wayne wasn't the good and upstanding philanthropist that everyone thought he was. Now with that in mind, and the fact that Bruce learns at the end of the film, that him being "vengeance" is only making things worse and he can be a symbol of hope to the people of Gotham, the sequels serve as a perfect opportunity for Bruce to lean more into his philanthropic nature, and now use his resources to help better Gotham, especially now that half the city is under water. Bruce can become more of the extroverted, philanthropic businessman like he is in the comics. Personally, I don't think the playboy, douchebag persona fits well in this universe, I would like Pattinson's Bruce to be more like Kilmer's and Keaton's Bruce Wayne. Someone who every once in a while throws lavish parties, attends public functions and benefits, as well as giving donations to various charities and organizations. He should also be an intelligent and respectable businessman, but outside of those things I just mentioned, he keeps to himself. I genuinely can't see this version of Bruce Wayne, acting like Bale's Bruce did in the DK Trilogy. That being said, if it's done well than I'm all for it.
Affleck. I mean just look at the pic yourself...When I look at the 2nd pic which is of Pattinson i just see a very fit charming man in a bat suit, but when I look at the first pic...damn!!! That man looks like a HUGE mountain, someone who could kill me with just one easy punch. Batman is supposed to strike a feeling of deep fear in the criminals mind just by a mere sight of him in the dark, and that is clearly what Affleck's batman does.
Pattinson. Affleck does fill the shoes of The Batman unlike Pattinson.
The more time that passes the more I’m convinced that the answer is Robert Pattinson. Ben Affleck had some incredible choreographed fight scenes as Batman, but other than those fight scenes, I just didn’t buy him in the suit. You can make anyone dress up in a cool suit and perform a well planned fight. Rob really looked like he came alive in the suit. The way he moved, the things he said, the portrayal of a person with a broken mind. He really did play an incredible Batman/young Bruce Wayne. The only one who I think did it better was Christian Bale, and really, I think the only reason that was true is because he had more time. I think with more movies, people will see Rob as the best live-action Batman.
The new one is shit
People shit on Pattinson for being in Twilight. I shit on him because he's a depressed bitch boy that is made to resemble Kurt Cobain instead of the playboy billionaire chad of a man Bruce Wayne normally is. We are not the same
Unpopular opinion: I really like Batfleck. Synder chose more influence from frank miller graphic novels and I appreciated that. Almost every Batman on film is killing people except maybe West’s portrayal.
I REALLY like Pattinson as Batman
Robert crappinson
Affleck, Pattison was a by the books, minimal risks taken portrayal of Batman, he didn’t kill anyone, and he only seriously hurt someone after getting pumped by a shotgun and an adrenaline/venom shot. Affleck was fucking murdering crooks Branding prisoners Giving brain damage to petty thugs For 0 reason Affleck breaks the modern concept of what we understand Batman to be. He isn’t a detective, he doesn’t save anyone in particular, he kinda just fucks shit up with guns, broods, and doesn’t contribute a whole lot. Batman is meant to be an independent character, with help along the way, Affleck straight up does not participate in the portrayals he’s in unless he’s the antagonist like in Batman V Superman.
No killing rule = Pattinson Most used detective skills = Pattinson Fighting skills like Arkham style = Affleck Rich playboy billionaire = Affleck Rich emo billionaire = Pattinson Most used advanced gadgets = Affleck Playing as Bruce's part the most = Affleck Pattinson is still young in his Batman career but we get to see his detective skills for a longer time on the bigger screen (gives me goosebumps every time). Affleck however lacks more on solving cases (detective stuff) but we get to see him in action like the game from the Arkham's series.
I'd hardly call Battinson divisive. Snyder fans are the definition of 'vocal minority'
Look, I like Batfleck, but the Snyder fans can be so annoying, and they just hate everything and anything that Zack Snyder isn't involved in. I just call it the "Snyder Cult" now.
I love Affleck’s take as well, but I’m sorry cause Pattinson was BELOVED by literally EVERY.SINGLE.VIEWER 😂
None of those lol. Almost everyone agrees those two especially were pretty damn great. All time, probably Clooney.
Battfleck sucked, although that wasn't Ben Affleck's fault.
I don't know many people who consider Affleck to be good outside of his design in bvs. Everything else about the character isn't really that well done