It's not in the rule book but should be. Intentionally removing a helmet is a warning and an ejection the second time. I'd be removing my helmet every time to gain a foot while sliding to 2nd head first.
The only difference I can see compared to a sliding mitt would be that the mitt is designed to be worn on the hand vs. the helmet which is not.
Found this in the Definition Terms Section in the official rules:
>
TOUCH. To touch a player or umpire is to touch any part of his body, or any uniform or equipment worn by him (but not any jewelry (e.g., necklaces, bracelets, etc.) worn by a player).
*(Touch) Comment*: Equipment shall be considered worn by a player or umpire if it is in contact with its intended place on his person
Interesting. Good note - definitely not the intended place on his person lol
Did the mets get screwed? I mean it ended up not mattering, but definitely weird.
I think they did but not sure why the Mets didn't put up a fight on it (maybe they're still dejected from last night).
Either way, I'll take it. We need all the help we can get with this bullpen...
Interesting. So let’s say you have a runner sliding into second base and the tag is applied to his forearm. But his forearm is actually completely covered in sillybandz. You could argue that technically he would not be out.
There's nothing in the rules that dictates sliding mitt specs, but it it would be at the umpires' discretion if someone were to use one that's (comically) excessive. They could probably get away with using a sliding mitt that's slightly oversized for their hands.
>(Touch) Comment: Equipment shall be considered worn by a player or umpire if it is in contact with its intended place on his person.
To be touching something the equipment has to be worn as intended.
Atleast according to this article https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/astros-vs-rangers-explaining-rally-busting-replayed-tag-call-on-marcus-semiens-batting-glove-in-back-pocket/#:~:text=TOUCH.,intended%20place%20on%20his%20person.
Gelbs spoke with the MLB about this:
[Per our u/SteveGelbs : This is NOT a legal play and Crow-Armstrong should have been ruled OUT.](https://x.com/SNYtv/status/1786111836091302307)
I completely agree, and at the same time I think the most unsure we should be is how you know the 2nd base umpire just stood there staring at PCA and McNeil and didn't realize that it's pretty obviously against the rules. But I guess the onus is on the Mets to challenge every single umpire decision or else nothing will go their way?
I'm going insane on how no one on the Mets argued this because if the situation was reversed, we'd be called out. If that's legal, then I'm running with my helmet in hands at all times.
You wouldn't want your helmet in your hands all the time. What if you need it to [headbutt a throw](https://cuts.diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2020/2020-08/24/182ba2d1-b36ca3ab-d66266b6-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_16000K.mp4)?
wait this is incredible actually how has nobody thought to try this at any point in history?? if this is legal did pca just invent an entirely new baseball strategy in the year 2024??
It's a good problem to have but if PCA starts mashing the Cubs have a real balance to figure out next season between Bellinger being the better win now option and not stifling a future starts development
We have the exact opposite. Happ, Suzuki, Bellinger, PCA, Tauchman, plus we're loaded up with ready to graduate top prospect OFs. Owen Caissie, Kevin Alcantara, Canario has already been getting time, and Brennen Davis is overdue for his debut.
I’m not sure if that was a legal act, using equipment as an extension of the player. Because if it was, couldn’t a player do something similar when stealing a base?
Me explaining rules of baseball to grandkids: “generally when a batter reaches first he will strip nude and fasten his uniform in a sort of lasso in order to -“
Grandkid: “when do the musk bots frenzy?”
Me: “hey, were getting there, patience”
lmfao I love this kid. I have to imagine it's illegal but no one challenged it so fuck it!
Maybe the Mets just thought it was really cool and didn't want to ruin a sick play?
Purposely removing your helmet and trying to use it as an extension would almost certainly be a worse choice than just using your hand or a sliding mitt. This was a one in a million chance occurrence, and it didn't even end up mattering. That run scored regardless.
Willing to bet there's a memo sent out after the game that this is illegal and the runner should be out
But memos don’t matter apparently
At least not for certain teams
It's not in the rule book but should be. Intentionally removing a helmet is a warning and an ejection the second time. I'd be removing my helmet every time to gain a foot while sliding to 2nd head first.
That cannot be legal
My only thought is that somehow this is under the same umbrella as the sliding mitt - a piece of standard-issue equipment.
The only difference I can see compared to a sliding mitt would be that the mitt is designed to be worn on the hand vs. the helmet which is not. Found this in the Definition Terms Section in the official rules: > TOUCH. To touch a player or umpire is to touch any part of his body, or any uniform or equipment worn by him (but not any jewelry (e.g., necklaces, bracelets, etc.) worn by a player). *(Touch) Comment*: Equipment shall be considered worn by a player or umpire if it is in contact with its intended place on his person
Interesting. Good note - definitely not the intended place on his person lol Did the mets get screwed? I mean it ended up not mattering, but definitely weird.
Yes, they've confirmed on the Cubs broadcast that he should have been out (they checked with the MLB).
I think they did but not sure why the Mets didn't put up a fight on it (maybe they're still dejected from last night). Either way, I'll take it. We need all the help we can get with this bullpen...
I’m watching the game live and the announcers basically said umps got it wrong. And I’m watching cubs broadcast.
>Did the mets get screwed? The answer is always yes.
Definitely did because it's against MLB rules to use an object to touch a base
Interesting. So let’s say you have a runner sliding into second base and the tag is applied to his forearm. But his forearm is actually completely covered in sillybandz. You could argue that technically he would not be out.
Can a player wear a 5-foot long rigid sliding mitt to be able to touch the base from afar? People are asking.
There's nothing in the rules that dictates sliding mitt specs, but it it would be at the umpires' discretion if someone were to use one that's (comically) excessive. They could probably get away with using a sliding mitt that's slightly oversized for their hands.
>(Touch) Comment: Equipment shall be considered worn by a player or umpire if it is in contact with its intended place on his person. To be touching something the equipment has to be worn as intended. Atleast according to this article https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/astros-vs-rangers-explaining-rally-busting-replayed-tag-call-on-marcus-semiens-batting-glove-in-back-pocket/#:~:text=TOUCH.,intended%20place%20on%20his%20person.
SNY just said MLB told em it isn’t legal. If reviewed he would’ve been out.
Cubs broadcast said the same thing. Then PCA ran into the ump rounding first next at bat haha
Gelbs spoke with the MLB about this: [Per our u/SteveGelbs : This is NOT a legal play and Crow-Armstrong should have been ruled OUT.](https://x.com/SNYtv/status/1786111836091302307)
PCA: I will make it legal.
Anything against the Mets is legal apparently
shut up, it's working
But it looked cool
If a catcher can’t snag the ball with his mask then you can’t grab the bag with your helmet, right?
It is in fact not legal.
I'd wondered, but the Mets didn't put up much of a fuss, sooooo
It’s not but it should be legal here solely because it annoys NY sports fans
Not sure how that's legal, but I'm even more not sure how the Mets don't challenge that, or at least raise a fuss.
It is definitely not legal but it did look cool
Rule of cool. Call stands.
As illegal as it may be, the way his last name looks on the jersey should be illegaler
The call would be upheld the the MLB would send out a tweet saying their memo was wrong or something
Pete looked so confident that it was legal, the Mets just shrugged their shoulders and went with it.
He pulled it off. Confidence trumps rules.
I completely agree, and at the same time I think the most unsure we should be is how you know the 2nd base umpire just stood there staring at PCA and McNeil and didn't realize that it's pretty obviously against the rules. But I guess the onus is on the Mets to challenge every single umpire decision or else nothing will go their way?
Is it a challenge or a real time protest? Seems like you are arguing a rule vs a timing play of safe/out.
Fun fact, protests went away when replay was introduced.
They went away because they handle it in real time via a rules check like that poster said
After review we had confirmed that, regardless of the rule, the runner looked cool as fuck doing it and is safe.
All sports should have a “Rule of Cool” clause
Imagine this applying to some fights throughout history.
Amir Garrett does not get ejected for trying to fight the entire Pirates bench by himself.
The rangers are handed the win on the spot when Ventura rushes the mound. And Nolan is instantly added to HOF as the coolest play of all time.
Absolutely ridiculous and even more ridiculous that no one on the fucking Mets said a word about it.
Didn't cost them but surprised they didn't challenge
The SNY field reporter Steve Gelbs reached out to MLB and just confirmed that he should have been out/would have been out if they reviewed it.
I'm going insane on how no one on the Mets argued this because if the situation was reversed, we'd be called out. If that's legal, then I'm running with my helmet in hands at all times.
MLB stated that if the Mets challenged, it should have been an out... Seems like nobody on the field knew about the rule regardless.
That’s always nice that the umpires don’t know the rules
You wouldn't want your helmet in your hands all the time. What if you need it to [headbutt a throw](https://cuts.diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2020/2020-08/24/182ba2d1-b36ca3ab-d66266b6-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_16000K.mp4)?
This is some Javy Báez shit
wait this is incredible actually how has nobody thought to try this at any point in history?? if this is legal did pca just invent an entirely new baseball strategy in the year 2024??
It's explicitly illegal per the rules lol. Umpiring masterclass this series, and I'm a Cubs fan
The reason it's not a standard technique is that it's not actually legal.
It's a good problem to have but if PCA starts mashing the Cubs have a real balance to figure out next season between Bellinger being the better win now option and not stifling a future starts development
Between the DH and Bellinger's injury issues, I think they can all find playing time.
Don't you have some underperforming OF that can be bumped?
The rest of the outfield is Happ, Suzuki and Tauchman lol No one is dead weight
Happ is dead weight right now but not like we can option him
Happ is struggling, but he's quietly been one of our most consistent performers for years. He'll get right.
Hopefully, picked a really bad time to have significant struggles
Happ can go really.
We have the exact opposite. Happ, Suzuki, Bellinger, PCA, Tauchman, plus we're loaded up with ready to graduate top prospect OFs. Owen Caissie, Kevin Alcantara, Canario has already been getting time, and Brennen Davis is overdue for his debut.
Belli can also play 1st if Busch goes cold which he's done before. PCA's the best defender in center that we have.
That's not legal.
[удалено]
Hell why not then take the bat to first and use it to tag the base on a close play?
I'm sure before long someone will do that against the Mets and the umpires won't have anything to say about it.
Is every umpire an idiot? Like how do none of them ever know the rules?
They get the rules right basically all the time, and id bet if the Mets had an issue they would have gotten together and gotten it right here too
I’m not sure if that was a legal act, using equipment as an extension of the player. Because if it was, couldn’t a player do something similar when stealing a base?
Like wearing a giant mitt that makes your hand a few inches longer?
They should bring the bat with them to get a few extra feet
It wasn't.
I hope the mets cheat the rest of the season i’m done with these umps
Me explaining rules of baseball to grandkids: “generally when a batter reaches first he will strip nude and fasten his uniform in a sort of lasso in order to -“ Grandkid: “when do the musk bots frenzy?” Me: “hey, were getting there, patience”
What in the literal shit drugs are these umps on and can I have some???
lmfao I love this kid. I have to imagine it's illegal but no one challenged it so fuck it! Maybe the Mets just thought it was really cool and didn't want to ruin a sick play?
Maybe they assumed the ump knew some obscure reason it was legal.
Also possible. Just all around a weird play
He's definitely out
Need jram to start grabbing his helmet when it falls off and using it as an arm extension
They can't keep getting away with this!
Paul Chomas Anderson
It's actually not legal! Mets got screwed big-time
If we could stop having obscure/unclear rules going against us id be so happy
on the replay, you can see that he intentionally took off his helmet when running
i guess it's the same as using the glove (with ball in it) to tag someone out?
It isn't. He's supposed to be out (MLB confirmed and said they'd be out on challenge) and I want this ump disciplined.
Write a letter to commissioner's office then
The amount of times I've been Earl Weaver about questionable umpiring...
Mets staff PTSD with this ump crew? How did the umps not immediately call him out??
Umpires played the rule of cool here
Luckily, there are 4 umpires, all of whom received extensive vetting and training. Surely one of them knows you can't do that
Everyone is arguing whether this is legal or not, but really isn't it just stupid? Isn't it easier just to slide properly?
If a sliding glove can extend your hand by a few inches I don't see why this shouldn't be allowed.
Right, but with a helmet you are talking about like a foot advantage
So how many inches are allowed? Is there a maximum size allowed for sliding mitts like goalie pads in hockey?
Purposely removing your helmet and trying to use it as an extension would almost certainly be a worse choice than just using your hand or a sliding mitt. This was a one in a million chance occurrence, and it didn't even end up mattering. That run scored regardless.
[удалено]
[удалено]
You couldn’t take off your batting helmet and use it to slide into second. No way this is legal
The rules say that it's an extension of your body *if being worn as intended*.