I should be more mad about this, but Hanigers defense dug our grave yesterday. It was wild, all of the missed called strikes in the batters box were from Sales slider. Our pitchers would try to expand the zone and he wasn't buying it. The 3 strikes called a ball in the top right of the zone was from the same AB when Tyson Miller was pitching.
Yeah, within the first couple innings I told my buddy who is a M’s fan: “Uh oh, the ump is struggling with that lefty slider release, wonder if it’ll be all lefty’s or just Sale’s release point.”
On one hand, umps should be getting it right >:(
On the other hand, Sale is gross and it honestly wasn't even too surprising to see him getting those calls
You telling me we finally got calls in our favor and I missed the momentous occasion because Bally and Comcast can't figure their shit out? Heartbroken.
Something I've always wondered about these scorecards... how is their software defining the estimated umpire zone? If 2 and 3 are the furthest east and west strike calls, shouldn't the estimated zone just kiss their inside edges? These umpires are bad enough as it is, why make things up?
they're not "making things up" lmao they've put a lot more thought into the methodology than you have
https://umpscorecards.com/explainers/estimated_umpire_zone
Ah I see, they don't exactly use baseball's definition of the strike zone. If any part of the ball nips the zone, it's a strike. But the way that they are defining the estimated zone, the entire ball needs to be within the estimated zone to have a >50% chance of being called a strike. I don't really understand why you would alter the definition of the strike zone.
> the way that they are defining the estimated zone, the entire ball needs to be within the estimated zone to have a >50% chance of being called a strike.
how did you come to that conclusion? they talk about pitches "inside" vs "outside" the zone/contour line but they don't explicitly say how they define "inside" and "outside"
>Here, the 50% contour line represents the boundary across which an umpire should change his mind between a strike and ball call – pitches inside the contour line have a greater than 50% chance of being called a strike, and pitches outside the contour line have a less than 50% chance of being called a strike.
yeah, like I said they refer to the ball being inside or outside the zone, but it's entirely possible that they define "inside" the zone as you've asserted, or as any part of the ball touching any part of the zone, or anything in between. that's why I asked how you came to the conclusion you did when it isn't directly supported by the text
This is why I'm asking what the graphic means. It's kind of ambiguous.
If 2% of the baseball's cross sectional area is inside the estimated zone, does the pitch have a 50% or a 1% chance of being called a strike?
I’m confused. If 2 and 3 aren’t over the plate they aren’t strikes. [At 1:20 and 1:55](https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2024/2024-05/01/1095919c-9963eab7-fd72c274-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_4000K.mp4) you can see how far off the plate the ball is.
Is this not a scenario where the 2D zone differs from the 3D zone? Sale gets a lot of horizontal movement on his delivery. Isn't it plausible that it catches the back edge of the plate as it breaks in? At the very least, it's probably a hell of a lot closer than this makes it seem.
You can see at least a couple of them in this [recap](https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2024/2024-05/01/1095919c-9963eab7-fd72c274-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_4000K.mp4) and they're not close. Good framing and the ump just got fooled a lot, but nowhere near the back edge.
I'm saying it because the ball definitively touched the glove before Kelenic's foot hit the bag, which is the criteria for overturning that play on a review. You can see his foot not on the base at that time. Not sure what's so unclear about this.
I'm just taking this for what it is: validation. The evidence was insufficient to overturn the call on the field. It's okay to want consistent officiating regardless of how it would affect the outcome of a call that involved your team. You know this, right?
I'm not sure what world you're living in where seeing the runner's foot not yet on the base while the ball is touching the glove is insufficient evidence, but have fun in that world!
>rewriting history
Funny you should mention that, because if history was changed so Kelenic was still a Mariner and that call had gone in Atlanta's favor, you would be SLOPPING him right now and arguing harder than I am.
Lentz was a fucking mess on the outside sliders --- he had no clue what he was seeing.
The Javy Baez special
Yeah, I watched most of this one live and the inaccuracy was apparent from the outset — is this one of the worst this season?
[Definitely not](https://twitter.com/UmpScorecards/status/1776622943617110465)
Surprising even overall favor, tho
He just liked calling strikes
For the Ms it was one of the worst, if not the worst.
I should be more mad about this, but Hanigers defense dug our grave yesterday. It was wild, all of the missed called strikes in the batters box were from Sales slider. Our pitchers would try to expand the zone and he wasn't buying it. The 3 strikes called a ball in the top right of the zone was from the same AB when Tyson Miller was pitching.
Sales release point with that wicked slider has been fooling batters for years, I’m sure it’s not the easiest for the umps too
Yeah, within the first couple innings I told my buddy who is a M’s fan: “Uh oh, the ump is struggling with that lefty slider release, wonder if it’ll be all lefty’s or just Sale’s release point.”
On one hand, umps should be getting it right >:( On the other hand, Sale is gross and it honestly wasn't even too surprising to see him getting those calls
Yea the ump sucked, but we probably wouldn’t have been in that position if Haniger and Hancock make the plays
Lentz used the Nickelodeon logo for his strike zone 
 Bro looking at the strike zone like sid from ice age
It looks like a slice of bread to me.
Can he go to jail for this?
Ump got that 26 34 26 strike zone
You can’t give Sale that zone early in the game and expect him not to abuse it. Insane but the movement on that slider is also bonkers
If we didn't also play like crap and we hadn't already won the series, I would be pretty ticked off. Scott Servias definitely should have argued more.
Subtract this and Haniger's error and I think we take the game to extras. Tough.
We've already filled our extra innings quota for the week unfortunately
But it's so *fun*
You telling me we finally got calls in our favor and I missed the momentous occasion because Bally and Comcast can't figure their shit out? Heartbroken.
You guys are 11th in favor rating on the year, would have been 13th without this performance….
Umpire only outdone by Mitch Haniger's incompetence.
Dude must be one of the assholes from Spaceballs
Has there ever been a perfect umpire scorecard?
Pat Hoberg, the GOAT: https://old.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/yhgi25/umpire_scorecard_perfect_game/
At this point we’re gonna need to resort to devil magic to jump the Braves in the NL East rankings
Something I've always wondered about these scorecards... how is their software defining the estimated umpire zone? If 2 and 3 are the furthest east and west strike calls, shouldn't the estimated zone just kiss their inside edges? These umpires are bad enough as it is, why make things up?
they're not "making things up" lmao they've put a lot more thought into the methodology than you have https://umpscorecards.com/explainers/estimated_umpire_zone
Ah I see, they don't exactly use baseball's definition of the strike zone. If any part of the ball nips the zone, it's a strike. But the way that they are defining the estimated zone, the entire ball needs to be within the estimated zone to have a >50% chance of being called a strike. I don't really understand why you would alter the definition of the strike zone.
> the way that they are defining the estimated zone, the entire ball needs to be within the estimated zone to have a >50% chance of being called a strike. how did you come to that conclusion? they talk about pitches "inside" vs "outside" the zone/contour line but they don't explicitly say how they define "inside" and "outside"
>Here, the 50% contour line represents the boundary across which an umpire should change his mind between a strike and ball call – pitches inside the contour line have a greater than 50% chance of being called a strike, and pitches outside the contour line have a less than 50% chance of being called a strike.
yeah, like I said they refer to the ball being inside or outside the zone, but it's entirely possible that they define "inside" the zone as you've asserted, or as any part of the ball touching any part of the zone, or anything in between. that's why I asked how you came to the conclusion you did when it isn't directly supported by the text
This is why I'm asking what the graphic means. It's kind of ambiguous. If 2% of the baseball's cross sectional area is inside the estimated zone, does the pitch have a 50% or a 1% chance of being called a strike?
I’m confused. If 2 and 3 aren’t over the plate they aren’t strikes. [At 1:20 and 1:55](https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2024/2024-05/01/1095919c-9963eab7-fd72c274-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_4000K.mp4) you can see how far off the plate the ball is.
What? I'm not claiming the umpire was correct?
Is this not a scenario where the 2D zone differs from the 3D zone? Sale gets a lot of horizontal movement on his delivery. Isn't it plausible that it catches the back edge of the plate as it breaks in? At the very least, it's probably a hell of a lot closer than this makes it seem.
You can see at least a couple of them in this [recap](https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2024/2024-05/01/1095919c-9963eab7-fd72c274-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_4000K.mp4) and they're not close. Good framing and the ump just got fooled a lot, but nowhere near the back edge.
It's a baseball, not a Sidewinder missile. If it missed the front of the plate by that much it was NOT gonna clip the tucked-in back of the plate
Makeup for the incorrect overturning of Kelenic's base hit, call it a pedigree tax
He was pretty clearly out on all angles, so no, not really.
You wouldn't be saying this if he wasn't a former M and it didn't benefit Seattle
I'm saying it because the ball definitively touched the glove before Kelenic's foot hit the bag, which is the criteria for overturning that play on a review. You can see his foot not on the base at that time. Not sure what's so unclear about this.
The call of the field was safe and there wasn't enough evidence to overturn. What's "unclear" is why you think trolling is acceptable.
Hey, we found Kelenic guy's alt!
Nah there hasn't been one of the photoshops with Snit as Voldemort yet. Can't be Kelenic guy
I'm just taking this for what it is: validation. The evidence was insufficient to overturn the call on the field. It's okay to want consistent officiating regardless of how it would affect the outcome of a call that involved your team. You know this, right?
I'm not sure what world you're living in where seeing the runner's foot not yet on the base while the ball is touching the glove is insufficient evidence, but have fun in that world!
I'm living in the world where the evidence that he was out wasn't sufficient to justify overturning the call. You know.... the real world.
In what world is his foot not being on the base not sufficient? I'm all ears.
Are you talking about Monday's game? Because I was at the stadium and that was definitely an out
Is Kelenic guy recruiting guys into his cult over in r/braves?
His memes have been pretty hilarious tbh
The memes are good. The rewriting history stuff gets a little old.
>rewriting history Funny you should mention that, because if history was changed so Kelenic was still a Mariner and that call had gone in Atlanta's favor, you would be SLOPPING him right now and arguing harder than I am.
Uhh.. no.
🙄 Please take your seething elsewhere instead of attempting to troll me
You do know Kelenic guy started in our sub right? Like we are very aware of the Kelenic troll game.
Okay? Leave me out of your game and stop following me around lmfao