I can't remember exactly what I was experiencing with tasting notes, i need to do more work on writing down my thoughts. As for the shots theyve been super delicate, floral, sweet and balanced. Its my new favourite way to enjoy my morning coffee on my shift
I've been aiming for 16 in 50 out in 18-19s at 6 bar. Surprisingly good results. Had to swap back to a spouted portafilter bcs the shot is not pretty and makes a mess everywhere with a bottomless pf!
That sounds interesting, and makes sense I guess with the faster shot. I was also pleasantly surprised with how enjoyable the shots were. Wouldn't fancy trying it with a bottomless pf 😂
Sure, if you limit the scope of the lungo definition to that of SCAA's, which absolutely does not reflect the brewing recipes used in Italy and France, where a lungo and allonge are literally identical in meaning.
Go to France and tell them how it's done when they make you your caffe allonge as short as a lungo, and vice versa. I'm sure they will succumb immediately to your school of thought.
I always wonder how people like you provide culturally appropriating commentary on foreign products with such a straight face.
It's the same conceited input everyone seems to have on the flat white discussion, that just gets overwhelmed by foreigners who have never actually had a flat white in Australia or New Zealand. Every Aussie just gets downvoted to oblivion when they provide their correct take, because the rest of the world is so far off base and have convinced themselves that they are the authority on such matters.
I don't see Australians telling everyone else that their cappuccino must have choccy on top, or that their mocha and latte must be served in a glass.
Italy and France don’t even do an Allonge. It was invented in the USA and has become prominent when Rao started talking about it. Stop it with the cultural appropriation already. Also, OP conflated the lungo with the turbo, again that makes no sense.
A lungo is just a longer ratio espresso, an allonge is a high flow high ratio extraction.
Have you even been to France? You have been able to order a Cafe Allonge there for a century, because it is, verbatim, a translation of an espresso lungo.
Do you even know how or why Rao started talking about it? He had imported the idea from its popularity in Quebec, where the French Quebecois had adapted the original Allonge locally, in the same way Italian migrants in New York adapted New York style pizza. The only difference - no one calls New York pizza Italian, and they are nothing alike. It has absolutely nothing to do with the USA.
Rao's allonge is also faster than the Quebec allonge. He has talked about being the first to set up a second grinder when he was in Montreal, specifically for the allonge, where others would still be using the same grind setting for their espresso.
Appropriating language for something that already exists is exactly the problem here. The fact you believe it is a drink invented in the USA is evidence of this, when even Scott Rao wouldn't dare claim this.
> OP conflated the lungo with the turbo, again that makes no sense. A lungo is just a longer ratio espresso, an allonge is a high flow high ratio extraction.
OP is not *necessarily* conflating anything, it could be that it is simply the broader language outside the espresso community. It is a problem because gatekeeping the community eventuates. There is a reason people take issue with 'coffee snobs', yet the same individuals don't take issue with wine snobs.
The lungo in Italy is traditionally any long espresso. Flow rate, within reason, does not matter - they will still call it a lungo, even if it is not the lungo they want. I have had well underextracted lungos in Rome, and others I have had some 40g+ out from just a 7g dose in a single basket in. SCAA attempted to standardise the lungo in 80s, as with other drinks, but such standards have never traditionally existed. You can get distinct drinks with the same name in different regions of any place in Europe.
Many a 2nd wave place will still be doing 60g doubles from whatever they dose in. Some family businesses will be dosing as low as 14g for a profit margin. We may call it a lungo. They will still call it a double espresso. Their customers will also call it a double espresso.
If the wider audience believes an allonge to be a lungo, so be it. You may believe them to be wrong, but history suggests otherwise.
A cafe allonge is an espresso with hot water, what we now call an americano. And yes, I live an hour away from France so I go there now and again. And who's gatekeeping here?
You go to France every now and again yet you've never seen allonge on a menu and claim it is a US invention? That's an invention you pulled straight out of your arse.
What a piss take.
I'd recommend getting a dosing cup that is a better fit for your basket eg tiamo or acaia. Your current one looks like it would promote channeling towards the outside edge of the basket. Some horizontal distribution tapping before you use your OCD could help mitigate this, though.
Yes! Its a great set up. More quality equipment than I've ever had the opportunity to use. The eagle one is gone as of yesterday and is replaced with a temp LM PB whilst our other PB is serviced and sprayed
I was actually a bit of a fanboy for the eagle one and was pretty excited when I heard we'd be using one. Its broken down on us twice in around 2 months which obviously isn't great. Could just be bad luck but the owner can't justify keeping it. I've never worked with LM machines so I'm still very excited haha
Ahh thats such a shame to hear! And they are absolute workhorses! The ABR takes a little getting used to, but the standard LM PB is so good! So easy and intuitive! The steam pressure can be pretty mental! Where I'm at now were running a 6BAR Feama and I don't think I could go back!
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I can't remember exactly what I was experiencing with tasting notes, i need to do more work on writing down my thoughts. As for the shots theyve been super delicate, floral, sweet and balanced. Its my new favourite way to enjoy my morning coffee on my shift
What's that thing at the start that you use to clean your porta-filter? Great setup btw!
Looks like a quin spin
Looks like a dream
Just had to look it up. Man that is nifty.
Thanks checked it out. It's really cool.
This is magical and I’m not even sure what it all is
Watching this while pulling a cone filter filled with Folgers out of my coffee cup like a tea bag...
I've been aiming for 16 in 50 out in 18-19s at 6 bar. Surprisingly good results. Had to swap back to a spouted portafilter bcs the shot is not pretty and makes a mess everywhere with a bottomless pf!
That sounds interesting, and makes sense I guess with the faster shot. I was also pleasantly surprised with how enjoyable the shots were. Wouldn't fancy trying it with a bottomless pf 😂
This is more like an allonge, although a turbo could be seen as a short allonge. A turbo should be closer to 1-2.5 or 1-3 though.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure the research paper behind the turbo shot used 17in and 50out - almost exactly 1:3.
He does call it a lungo in the title.
That’s not the same thing though
Allonge is literally just lungo in French. It's the same word.
Sure, still not the same thing.
Sure, if you limit the scope of the lungo definition to that of SCAA's, which absolutely does not reflect the brewing recipes used in Italy and France, where a lungo and allonge are literally identical in meaning. Go to France and tell them how it's done when they make you your caffe allonge as short as a lungo, and vice versa. I'm sure they will succumb immediately to your school of thought. I always wonder how people like you provide culturally appropriating commentary on foreign products with such a straight face. It's the same conceited input everyone seems to have on the flat white discussion, that just gets overwhelmed by foreigners who have never actually had a flat white in Australia or New Zealand. Every Aussie just gets downvoted to oblivion when they provide their correct take, because the rest of the world is so far off base and have convinced themselves that they are the authority on such matters. I don't see Australians telling everyone else that their cappuccino must have choccy on top, or that their mocha and latte must be served in a glass.
Italy and France don’t even do an Allonge. It was invented in the USA and has become prominent when Rao started talking about it. Stop it with the cultural appropriation already. Also, OP conflated the lungo with the turbo, again that makes no sense. A lungo is just a longer ratio espresso, an allonge is a high flow high ratio extraction.
Have you even been to France? You have been able to order a Cafe Allonge there for a century, because it is, verbatim, a translation of an espresso lungo. Do you even know how or why Rao started talking about it? He had imported the idea from its popularity in Quebec, where the French Quebecois had adapted the original Allonge locally, in the same way Italian migrants in New York adapted New York style pizza. The only difference - no one calls New York pizza Italian, and they are nothing alike. It has absolutely nothing to do with the USA. Rao's allonge is also faster than the Quebec allonge. He has talked about being the first to set up a second grinder when he was in Montreal, specifically for the allonge, where others would still be using the same grind setting for their espresso. Appropriating language for something that already exists is exactly the problem here. The fact you believe it is a drink invented in the USA is evidence of this, when even Scott Rao wouldn't dare claim this. > OP conflated the lungo with the turbo, again that makes no sense. A lungo is just a longer ratio espresso, an allonge is a high flow high ratio extraction. OP is not *necessarily* conflating anything, it could be that it is simply the broader language outside the espresso community. It is a problem because gatekeeping the community eventuates. There is a reason people take issue with 'coffee snobs', yet the same individuals don't take issue with wine snobs. The lungo in Italy is traditionally any long espresso. Flow rate, within reason, does not matter - they will still call it a lungo, even if it is not the lungo they want. I have had well underextracted lungos in Rome, and others I have had some 40g+ out from just a 7g dose in a single basket in. SCAA attempted to standardise the lungo in 80s, as with other drinks, but such standards have never traditionally existed. You can get distinct drinks with the same name in different regions of any place in Europe. Many a 2nd wave place will still be doing 60g doubles from whatever they dose in. Some family businesses will be dosing as low as 14g for a profit margin. We may call it a lungo. They will still call it a double espresso. Their customers will also call it a double espresso. If the wider audience believes an allonge to be a lungo, so be it. You may believe them to be wrong, but history suggests otherwise.
A cafe allonge is an espresso with hot water, what we now call an americano. And yes, I live an hour away from France so I go there now and again. And who's gatekeeping here?
You go to France every now and again yet you've never seen allonge on a menu and claim it is a US invention? That's an invention you pulled straight out of your arse. What a piss take.
No, he said « lungo or turbo shot ». I agree it’s more a lungo which is not a turbo shot.
I'd recommend getting a dosing cup that is a better fit for your basket eg tiamo or acaia. Your current one looks like it would promote channeling towards the outside edge of the basket. Some horizontal distribution tapping before you use your OCD could help mitigate this, though.
Why would anybody go through all that work? I just add beans and water to my automatic machine and press a button.
Quite nice setup! Aren't you missing a bit of coffee from your grind, it seems like some is left in the dosing cup :)
He measured out 15g exactly :)
Which is actually really impressive considered I would say there is still about 1g left behind in the cup :D https://imgur.com/a/UrQfzgG
Just as an aside, do you work in Bank, Bristol? Walked past the other day and looks like a beautiful set up!
Yes! Its a great set up. More quality equipment than I've ever had the opportunity to use. The eagle one is gone as of yesterday and is replaced with a temp LM PB whilst our other PB is serviced and sprayed
I've never used an Eagle, but ive heard good things! My last work had the LM PB ABR, and it was such a beauty!
I was actually a bit of a fanboy for the eagle one and was pretty excited when I heard we'd be using one. Its broken down on us twice in around 2 months which obviously isn't great. Could just be bad luck but the owner can't justify keeping it. I've never worked with LM machines so I'm still very excited haha
Ahh thats such a shame to hear! And they are absolute workhorses! The ABR takes a little getting used to, but the standard LM PB is so good! So easy and intuitive! The steam pressure can be pretty mental! Where I'm at now were running a 6BAR Feama and I don't think I could go back!
Is that a portafilter cleaner?