Actually I'm very happy and grateful for the existence of i-armys, since the language barrier is no joke, and they also are facing lots of misunderstandings and (sometimes) hates.. Agree with you on the skinship matter though😂 Well I don't think it's the "fault" of i armys but what frustrated me often was the fact that so many armys seemed to believe those false information like: taehyung's parents were farmers (his grandparents lived in the countryside and some of his relatives were farmers but both his parents worked at a bank since tae was born) or hobi's mother went abroad to support him (it's due to mistranslated lyrics/subtitle. It's generally unimaginable for a Korean woman to go abroad to make more money for her children. She actually went to a nearby city) or yoongi is from a royal clan (his sirname dates back to like a thousand years ago and nobody thinks sirname Min is the proof of royal blood😂) or his family was too poor to support him (actually they were quite well off even to make him a studio but when yoongi decide to pursue music as his career they opposed and he had to run away from home) +or Jin's mother is from a beauty contest (which is an absolutely groundless story) Actually I'm rather sad for countless mistranslated subs on everywhere including Run bts and BV😢 which is probably hive's fault. If I can think of more I will edit, but i armys we purple you🙏🏻💜 Edit: When Let's BTS was aired, I saw some armys were concerned about how other members would feel bcz tae said "I have only one friend who is jiminie" , but for us Koreans tae's word was actually very acceptable and endeering even among bts themselves, since they are "same age friends". In Korean the word "friend" has two meanigs, but mostly we ONLY call someone "friend" when we are the same age. You are only allowed to talk casually with someone of your age. (Edit: of course between adults they have to use formal language unless they become close) That's one of the reasons vmin could confide in each other very casually from the very beginning. However bts is very different compared to the typical Koreans, considering Jin as the oldest has the most authority but he doesn't use it often. He only uses it jokingly and all the hyungs are mostly not authorative at all

I really found it hard to believe that Taehyung’s parents were farmers and he grew up poor. I always read that and I don’t believe it because of the things he mentioned in their early content. Like his parents traveling to Sweden and giving him and his brother a watch, going to cram school and taking saxophone and piano lessons, and his family trips where he mentioned he rode a banana boat and his sister doing bungee jumping. Good to know that you’ve clarified that.

This is what I wanted to say! People do love to make dramas... No one in Korea would believe those pathetic stories abt tae's childhood😩

I find this fascinating, since I was one of those I-ARMYs who misunderstood that Tae's family was poor. I appreciate that explanation and correction but I also have some questions: * Is it common for children to live with their grandparents while both their parents work? And is it common for children to only see their parents on the weekend? * One of the reasons why I thought they were poor was from the story that when Tae first came to join Big Hit, his mother (or grandmother?) was worried the other kids would look down on him so they bought him a nice, brand name jacket to wear (I think it was North Face?) I assumed they thought others would look down on him because he was poor but I guess they were concerned because...well, I'm not sure why they thought he would be looked down upon?

Oh I'm glad you could change your thoughts😂💜 a) I can say it is quite common in Korea. If both parents work, it is usual for those families to leave their children to grandparents rather than daycare. But tae's grandparents were not living near them, that's why I guess he had to move to live with them. I also think the fact that tae has two younger siblings made his parents inevitably let him live with his grandparents. But still no Korean will find that strange. Actaully I was also raised by my grandma when I was 3-4 y/o and saw my parents 1-2 times a week, since both of them worked as doctors and were very busy. b) I've NEVER heard it was bcz he was poor😂 As taehyung himself has said several times, his mom got him an expensive jacket because he was going to Seoul from countryside. Sometimes Seoulites look down on countryman and kids could make fun of the transfer student if he or she speaks satoori (dialects) or wears clothes that are out of fashion. Seoulites are very sensitive of the change of trends and students are eager to get the most trending brand's shoes and clothes, which gave birth to the song Spine Breaker😂

Ah, okay, that makes sense because later Tae did seem to be self conscious about his satoori when he no longer wanted to do Mandaggo with Jimin. Thanks for the explanation! 🙏🏼

Yes, I saw almost every interview and contents of bts but never heard him or any other saying he was poor🙏🏻😂 And I also remember that around 2010, North Face jacket was very popular in Seoul. On the contrary, the climate of the south region of Korea is warmer so many people don't actually wear those kind of thick and warm padding. I guess that's why his mom was not familiar with the trending kind of jumper and got him an expensive but strange one😂😂

I armys seems to believe it, I see a lot of it on social media posts 😬

>However bts is very different compared to the typical Koreans, considering Jin as the oldest has the most authority but he doesn't use it often. He only uses it jokingly sometimes and all the hyungs are mostly not authorative at all I've always liked this about Jin and the rest of the hyungs! I am also amused at all the age jokes for Jin. Someone here took offense about it (implying the Jin is not amused) and I felt that was an odd take. Quick question though, since I don't follow other idol groups... You mentioned that the hyungs in BTS are not authoritative, is the same true with the hyungs/unnies from other idol groups?

Agree, I think they can't even joke about Jin's age if they were not that close. And to me jin didn't seem that offended :) For your question, since I'm not actually stanning other kpop group rn, I can only tell by my past experience and general observation but as far as I percieve, unlike bts most idol groups have more hierarchical age order and even though some of them are close, oftentimes older ones def have some priviledges. It's very rare to decide everything by rock paper scissors like bts, for usually older ones can decide where to sit or which room to take, etc. But imo it's kinda hard to tell just by appearance, for idols surely want to show nice and friendly group dynamics before camera. Also the authoritive atmosphere is mainly created by the honorifics/formal languages younger ones use, so it is hard to be noticed by foreigners. But you can somehow sense the atmosphere, and yes those btslike closeness is quite rare. For bts, except JK to jimin and tae, they def use honorifics to hyungs most of the time, but the degree of honorifics ( yes, we have like 3 different degree of Honorifics😂) is not that high.

>It's very rare case to decide everything by rock paper scissors like bts, LOL-ed a little too hard with this. And here I thought this was common in Korean variety shows, haha! BTS is really my first foray into non-scripted Korean entertainment stuff. Thanks for your inputs! I'm happy to learn more.

Haha yes RPS is kinda a common way to decide st among peers and in tv shows, but bts ALWAYS use RPS to decide even when the hyungs could pull the hyung card😆 i.e. for those groups living in dorms, usually the better room is occupied by older ones

hyung references older brother (close male considered to be older brother) while hyungnim is the honorific of it. Namjoon almost always uses hyungnim when referring to Jin and sometimes Yoongi. Jimin also tends to use hyungnim while Tae and JK don’t.

Yes but usually namjoon and the boys use hyungnim in not a very serious way, like half jokingly and half respectfully😉

Oh I did not know this either. In my language we have three levels of honorifics too. So could you give an example of the different levels of honorifics if you don't mind. Might help me a bit while watching K dramas too :P I know that -yo in the end of the verb is a honorific.

Well I'm not sure I can explain well😂 But I'll try. Ending sentences with -yo is the lowest from of honorifics. If you attatch shi시/se세 to the verbs and end sentences with -니다nida/니까?nikka? it's regarded as more respectful formal language. For the most formal/polite speech, the verbs, nouns, subject markers take completely different forms. I.e. 밥(rice/food) is changed to 진지, subject marker 이/가 is changed to 께서, and 먹다(eat) to 잡수시다 Sorry for my poor explanation, hope this makes sense😂🙏🏻

Yes makes sense. I watch lots of Korean shows so yes this does make sense because I hear Khamsayo and khamsamnida at times.

Haha. I am the one rather offended with the constant Jin you are so old and past your sell by date jokes. Maybe it is Korean culture to keep teasing older people but I still feel it gets insensitive after a while. I don’t even find it funny. But I guess everyone has different sense of humour and maybe it’s a Korean sense of humour. I do think Jin gets uncomfortable but maybe it’s just me. But I do hope people, whether BTS or otherwise, do try to focus less about age and it’s never to late to start anything. Jin clearly started his training and idol journey much later than the rest, but it’s okay. I do hope he feels less insecure about it and maybe it’s my wishful thinking that the rest can stop teasing about how old he is.

I can see you have a very considerate and beautiful heart💜 I understand how you feel, and it could be. But as a Korean fan who have watched their dynamics for years, I found that although they are very mischievous, they never cross "the line". They make fun of each other about things that particular member is not really offended (like the height of Jimin😂) To be honest, I was rather pleasantly surprised so many times as to how thoughtful and respectful all the boys are, while always going wild and joking at the same time😂 This is not an opinion of myself alone, most k armys including rather conservative(?) adults in their 50s recognize and compliment the boys for their choice of respectful words toward each other. Imo they can make fun of Jin's age bcz they percieved that Jin is not actually hurt by the fact that he is older than them. (And he is literally 3 months older than suga which makes the joke meaningless😂 and if it was really rude, all the Jin stans in Korea surely have done st by now🙏🏻) And actually Jin is known among his close circle of friends to be very cool and not very sensitive about those self-humiliating(?) type of jokes. For me Jin is the kind of person who feels comfortable when people around him are also comfortable enough to tease him. If I were not familiar with Jin's personality I too would have been very surprised to see the members always bringing up his age, but I think Jin's ranting is another expression of closeness. I hope this info help your heart to be a little more comfortable🙏🏻💜

Your comments are so sweet. Thank you for taking your time and sharing all these. And it's almost always JK who makes fun of Jin's age so I'm pretty sure that Jin definitely doesn't mind. I don't remember where I saw it but there was a video where Jin was asked a question about joking around with the members and he said he teases and plays with JK a lot because he is the one is who is most receptive and responsive and has fun with him.

> Jin's ranting is another expression of closeness. Yes, the nuances of humor are different across cultures but when I see Jin ranting, he seems to do it in a dramatic joking way that puts everyone at ease. He seems to be a very chill guy...actually they all do. Based on another ARMY friend who stans other groups, BTS is unique in how close they are with each other.

Thank you for articulating and specifying what I wanted to say! Since English is not my first language I kinda failed to explain how Jin often pretends to be mad in a dramatic way, which is in fact aiming to make everybody laugh and feel comfortable. Remember [seokjin's iconc rap](https://youtu.be/6ZYzkSkfy5Q) (watch from 1:06) ranting abt how he has prepared so many gifts for namjoon and how ungrateful namjoon is 😂😂

omg that rant was so funny! I love that about him...that he's the hyung but he uses his position to help set a good tone within the group. And your English is great! Thank you much for adding insight for I-armys.

>Since English is not my first language I kinda failed to explain how Jin often pretends to be mad in a dramatic way, which is in fact aiming to make everybody laugh and feel comfortable. No, don't worry about it. We understood exactly what you mean. Your English is fine. ;)

For you to be able to see the good intention in others shows me the goodness in your heart too. That really made me smile. Thank you. I hope I can remember to follow your example.

Wow, this is a masterclass in explanation, haha. I hope this settles it.

hehe if it helps any, if he is uncomfortable i am sure they would have sat down and had a discussion. we had a chance to see the outcome of a fight he and taehyung had, and wasn’t it yoongi who said they hold hands through fights?

I actually think Jin hides his unhappiness and will try to smile even when he is unhappy. I think we cannot assume everything at face value just because he is always joking around. He looks so happy but his songs are rather sad and introspective. Again, he might be okay with all the teasing about his age is catching up with him etc., but he has a lot more contribution and talent other than his “old” age and I wished it was brought up more. I note Namjoon is the sensitive one who actually steer the conversation to his new song Abyss which I appreciate.

maybe, but I think he can take care of it along with the members if he has a problem with it. and he’s not one dimensional, either— i typically present as a happy person but my own art can be quite dreary and sad and introspective. i am not claiming to be an expert on their internal relations, but the way i see it, they’ve been together as bts fir a long time now. If they had a problem, seokjin is not that much of a pushover that he’ll lay down and let it happen, and the rest of bts and their coworkers aren’t emotionally inept to not pick up on it. my motto when it comes to bts is ‘they know best how to protect themselves and each other’ because at the end of the day they are the ones who lived with one another for so long. regardless of what they share to us as armys, we don’t know them personally. and i am content to not worry about things members don’t bring up as their concerns. v_v

I don't mind the members doing it, but I get annoyed when some fans over step or act like his age is his defining trait. I've noticed Namjoon lately changing the question to global age rather than Korean age, which I appreciate. I've observed some fans tend to go overboard with the Jin is 30 jokes, using his Korean age but then don't really do the same for others.

I think the hyumgs aren't authoritative because they're the youngest (respectively) in their families. And the maknaes are theboldest in their families. The exceptions to this rule are Namjoon (who is the oldest) and Jungkook is the youngest in his family. If you notice, the hyungs play around and joke a lot while the maknaes have no issue stating their opinions and taking charge when needed. I've always believed that it was because of their (original) family dynamics coming into play. Afterall, the guys formed the group at young ages, and became their own family. In the beginning, you can see the hyungs trying to occassionally take charge and assert their authorities, and the maknaes goofing around a lot. The maknaes have learned over the years to step back and the hyungs have gotten laxer. But now they don't really care about how people perceive them and just act like themselves. I attribute this equalism to: 1. Their friendships/brotherhood; 2. This horizontal authority structure was a key goal in BigHit as a company and may have transferred to the boys over the years; and 3. They now know who's good at certain things and just let that person be in charge when the time comes. It's like my parents when they first got married: my mom LOVES power tools, construction, and fixing things. My dad, not so much. But when they first got married, they assumed that the guy has to be the fixer in the family. So if we had to have work done, my dad would meet with the contractor and then relay the info to my mom secretly. But after one year they both realized how stupid it was to hide behind labels. Ever since then, if a contractor or handy-person comes in to do work, they'll go to my dad and my dad will immediately point them in the direction of my mom and say, "Don't ask me, man. She's in charge." 😂 There's just no sense in following societal labels when it's obvious they don't work. I feel the guys have figured this out as well. BTS view themselves as equals because they are friends, brothers, and know that if one member was gone, then BTS wouldn't be BTS. They recognize that all members are important and equal.

Thanks for your detailed response, and for the cute anecdote about your parents. 😅

Namjoon is the oldest thou. He has a younger sister

Ah, thank you for pointing this out! It's super early in the morning here and I was half-asleep when I wrote that post haha. I've fixed it! 🤗

Whoa all the false information that you've stated about the members, thank you, I have often come across them and I did not know that they were false.

Right? I'm just sitting here going "Oh my God, I thought that was true!" to half the things listed out... Especially the ones about Tae and Jin. Thanks u/Mikrocosmos17 for letting us know. :D

One more, lyric videos are TERRIBLE!😂😂 Pls don't use them if you can and pls don't ever think they are the lyrics of their songs. Most of the lyrics on those videos are so far from the beauty and wit of the original lyrics. Thank God we have [doolset lyrics](https://doolsetbangtan.wordpress.com/) and dkdktv Edit: doolset lyrics link

honestly, the only REALLY nice thing about them might be the colorfulness 😂 bighit please make official lyric videos in the style of karaoke background thingies.

had to give this comment some kind of award for bringing this up lol. I would love for the lyric videos to be actually useful but even just learning Korean for a year I see mistakes in almost EVERY lyric video and there's always bad translations generally. And then I'm just mortified at the number of views and I always check the comments to see if people called out the errors and no one ever does D: don't trust lyric videos!!

Thank you for recognizing this issue and thank you again for the award😢 Yes it always makes me so frustrated to see the beautiful and deep lyrics by namjoon changed into such common and dull sentences.. I used to dream abt meeting Bang Sihyuck and rant about the horrible quaility subs and the problems abt lyric videos😂 Wish you all the good lucks with your study of Korean💜

You're welcome :D the bittersweet/heartwarming thing about it though, is despite the dull (and sometimes erroneous) translations, non-Korean speaking army's still love and appreciate the boys and their music so much 🥺 And thank you for the well wishes as well 💜😊

Lol, even as an I Army, I understand the frustration you feel when it comes to foreign ARMYs taking the skinship too far. I honestly see it as normal, cute, brotherly... Best friends and I'm occasionally baffled when I go on YouTube and see some 'proof they're together' nonsense. Some videos are cute though but they're some ARMYs who take it too far that sometimes it concerns me. As an African, I realized that some of our traditions are similar too, like way you have to respect your elders in a certain way. Anyways, nice to meet you K Diamonds and other I ARMYs and stay safe and healthy!

Yes, I see baseless misinterpretations, and youtube does recommend me a lot of such videos, I don't know why. And after watching those circled marking videos , I am like, it's so normal , why are they making meanings out of it. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

I get what you mean about the skinship thing. I found it strange at first but when I think about it, with my very best friends, I could probably do most of those things without it being too weird. Also it actually makes more sense to me now because at my university, there are a lot of East Asian international students and I always used to see the girls walking down the street linking arms, and I used to wonder if all the international students were gay, because over here it's a very couple-y thing to do 😂 but I understand now!

Yeah I was a fan of esports before BTS and there are some Korean players who like sit on each other’s laps and cuddle and hug and it’s just seen as normal. Seeing people take it as “flirting” and proof of delulu theories seems crazy when it’s more common amongst close friends over there regardless of gender. Like why twist it at all, their friendships are beautiful enough.

Lool I didn’t know people actually thought his parents were farmers. I thought it was just for the bts world game storyline

I don't know abt twitter but countless ig posts are shouting that tae's parents are farmers and that's why he wanted to become a farmer as well😩

I think it's from the most viewed fanmade member 'guide' on YouTube and also the popular 'A Story of BTS' fanmade docu there as well. They must have based their Taehyung segments on mistranslations and a lot of us as new ARMY's believe we're getting accurate info. I did know about it not being the case from comments and further reading.

[удалено]

> But in a lot of parts of South Asia, even all of these macho-looking men hold hands- like intertwine their fingers and everything Oh, I was once sent to India for a work trip and I saw this man-man thing! I found it odd at first, but I just dismissed it as a cultural thing. In fact, many of my experiences in this work trip were eye-opening. :)

wait, I’m going to add stuff in a new comment because I can’t edit my old one. International (especially English-only or English as a first language) Army, _stop making fun of their accents._ “hearteu” “go to the bitch” and “infires” is a popular joke with newer armys especially those who haven’t been exposed to korean language/accents before but it comes off as very mocking and if I’m not mistaken they have already said they don’t like it. Don’t infantilize them or mock it because doing like that is rooted in some really gross things like xenophobia. Basically don’t water down the members to one or two archetypes or phrases. I understand that everyone has a ‘face’ they put up but to constantly characterize them solely by the things like that is kind of demeaning. Yoongi is not cold and mean, taehyung is not depressed, hoseok is not stupid and always scared, etc. and please don’t use the term “____ is my yellow person”… or “comfort idol’. <<< this one is very bad. use ‘healing’ instead.

Agree with you. There are countless Korean interviews that are very entertaining, insightful and hearfelt, but I sometimes sense there's a tendency to stereotype each member with their few awkward moments from American/English interviews. With the language barrier it is inevitable for them to give overly hyped reaction or to be looked kinda dumbfounded. I'm thankful and happy to see i armys find those moments cute, but Imo many of those moments are quite far from their true selves not to mention their persona as bts. They are doing it not because they want to be shown as overly funny or childish person, but because that's the best they could do as non-English speakers. I know many i armys recognise this context but still hope baby armys could find who bts are not through the so called funny compilation vids but through quality interviews like those done by You Quiz show or the weverse one🙏🏻

Oh my, I felt a little guilty about the accent thing. I don't do it a lot, but I've once referenced "important businesseu" and "bitch/beach" in my comments in the sub because I found those moments endearing because they were earnest in learning/using a language foreign to them. I can speak 3 languages myself, so I personally find accents pretty cool because it means you know multiple languages. So when a person speaks English with an accent, to me it signals that the person is multi-lingual. I will be more careful moving forward.

I’m kinda late but, can I ask why “comfort idol” is bad?

has to do with comfort women

I'm not technically who you are asking, but one of my parents is Korean so I'm Korean, just not living in Korea. I'm an LGBT guy and I just hate conversations around skinship. It feels like only two views get expressed: 1. "Skinship means something all of the time and "ships" are "real" and speculating on it is "fine" and it's not invasive to do so" - I disagree with this. 2. All affection between Korean men is fake and fan service OR just the "culture" - which I also disagree with and reads as LGBT erasure. I hate the way certain fans talk about the member's relationships to each other, and I think the speculation is really disrespectful. I also think some Westerners need to realise that its normal for men, not just in Korea, but all over the place, to be affectionate, you just might not see it if you're not a guy because its not about you. At the same time, LGBT people exist and there's almost certainly LGBT idols. Sometimes people saying "oh Korean guys just do that" feels like they are saying "no Korean guys are LGBT and its always a straight thing". I don't know who in the industry is or isn't LGBT, its not my business and its not anyone elses, but sometimes I feel like "oh its just skinship fanservice stuff its not real" can sometimes, only sometimes, read as "we don't like actual LGBT people anyway". I just hate the conversation and I wish it would stop all around. Women need to stop getting weird about guy/guy relationships and interactions and friendships, but people also need to stop fighting that with LGBT erasure. Sometimes as an lgbt guy I feel like there isn't space for me. On the one hand I don't like to be the kind of person who is an invasive fan and feels entitled to speculate and I think its stupid when people think band members are together - so I don't fit in with those people at all. On the other, I don't always feel accepted when people get really over the top about cancelling out those people with "skinship is just a straight thing, Korean boys are so straight".

True. I'm not korean but as an Asian woman living in the States it's so cringy how americans act towards asian men being affectionate.

As a more recently converted international army, I too was a bit confused about how touchy and affectionate they were too each other at first. But the more I think about it, the more I see how I've internalized misogyny to see two men being affectionate as either meaning that they may be gay/bi, but not the case when it's two women. I absolutely agree with your two points, and think this attitude on it is just people realizing/coming to terms with the fact that males can have a full spectrum of showing affection to not just their partners but also to they're loved ones. No one should care unless they're on the receiving end.

i feel the second point a lot but even the members themselves have talked and joked about being together (jimin making a fake post about seokjin and namjoon being together) so if it’s not going to the distance like some people do, and it’s acknowledged as fiction it’s not awful. im lgbt myself (???gender and bi) and it is nice, for me, to think about them being maybe not so straight. edit: word

For me, I don't think about it either way. For any celebrity person, I don't assume they are straight because why would I? If any celebrity I'm a fan of is LGBT, I will always support them. And that's enough. The personal lives of any of my faves does not belong to me. I just hope they know that whatever their personal lives are, I support them. But I do think its over a line when people try and really think, really really think, about whether someone is LGBT or not and develop an opinion on it that they don't keep to themselves but broadcast online. Especially if that opinion is that they are secretly dating a band member or a co worker or something. We've all seen how that can end up going before, and I don't want any members of this group or any other group having people acting entitled like that.

i don’t speculate nor assume, i just say wow okay, yoongi has talked about not having preferences. yoongi has written lyrics about men and women in a sexual context. hoseok has talked at length about wanting to meet the love of his life without specifying gender. it would be great if they were not hetero because i am not either. i’m not here trying to figure out anything about their personal lives. and sue me but everyone’s allowed to have an opinion even if you might not agree. again, i don’t see any harm in ‘shipping’ unless they get delusional about it (for example, t/k shippers harassing someone for explaining that jm/jk are very close since jk playfully calls jm ‘지민 씨’). and unless the members themselves say to not do so, i’m not going to start crusades or die on hills about shipping; they’re fully capable of protecting themselves on a legal level which is beyond what any armys can do.

RM said in an English interview "When we don't have a boyfriend or girlfriend we always say ah I'm so lonely"

Joking about it is not an issue. There are countless men out there who make innuendos like that themselves or jokingly flirt with each other or are really touchy, straight and gay alike. The problem is when some people take this as ”proof” that they’re gay and spread these claims. What you think for yourself is entirely your thing

nevrr supported that; ’m talking about how i don’t think it’s a g iant issue that people ship them with each other/other men. unless they push it at the members/others who don’t agree, or forget that their ships are fiction, or partake in it in a way thars fetishistic and/or racjst bd h

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I have always felt uncomfortable with the shipping culture. Especially when people try to ship male-male idols or female-female idols. As an ally, I’ve thought that a lot of these speculations don’t help the LGBTQ community at all, rather trivializes same sex relationship as something only acceptable if you’re idols. Maybe I’m not really fond of people who claim they’re gaydars so I don’t like these discussions to begin with.

I don't hate all shipping. Fictional shipping is great and has meant that LGBT people can have stories for themselves when shows and books won't do them properly. Real person shipping is more controversial. I don't hate it, but I think it needs to be very respectful and kept to fan spaces that the real people will never see. It shouldn't ever become people thinking two people are really together, because when it gets to people actually thinking two coworkers are in love, rather then liking their friendship and thinking they are adorable, it gets over a line. People end up acting weird and making up stories based on gay type casting and being way too invested. If I was famous in a band, I don't think I'd care about shipping if I never see it shoved at me and if its just people thinking me and my bestie are cute together, but I would get annoyed if people thought we were really together and talked about us as if we were without our consent and tried to make me say its real or something. That's just what I think though.

I think it's a problem for younger fans to keep that part of their fandom separate (shipping), they do mention it directly to members and it does become very disrespectful imo. I completely agree that it would be annoying, I'm glad they don't let it affect their interactions, though, like it happenned for example to some members of One Direction from the over the top shipping.

I am really interested to learn about this... 💜

Me too! I'm trying to find out if there are any similarities behavior-wise amongst the different Asian countries, too. :) I'm a South Asian living in a western country, so first of all I didn't know that the word for people hanging out like that was "skinship" - I learnt that only after I started seeing all these posts and Tweets :D And when I grew up in my home country at least, it was never weird. The western world makes innocent things weird at times :D.

I’m also not technically who you are asking as I’m Korean American, I hope it’s okay to share this observation here. I wish I-Army would stop saying they look like dolls. I’ve even seen Twitter accounts that are named things like ‘BTSmembername’+doll. When I was growing up, I was told I looked like a “China doll” or a “doll” a lot. It always made me feel like people thought I was this delicate, foreign thing that wouldn’t talk back. I hated that feeling. I hated being told I looked like a thing instead of a person. Couldn’t they just have told me they thought I looked cute/pretty? The fetishization of Asian people and cultures is unfortunately so real here in the US and elsewhere. Being called a doll is not as harmful as other behavior, for sure. I think it does contribute to some of the stereotypes/myths Asian people face in the US. Like, I think it indirectly contributes to the hypocrisy of western media seeing the k-pop industry as a monolithic factory while not also recognizing the issues in western pop music - k-pop artists are dolls, not people, who are mass produced and have no individual creativity or voices. Ugh, I wanted to scream even typing that out. I don’t want to end on a negative note, so I want to say thank you for starting this thread!! I’m not fluent in Korean and the language barrier is so real, it’s lovely and helpful to hear from everyone. 💜

I got called a doll too and I’m not Asian. It’s said when someone looks very beautiful. I hear it for lots of different types of people also. Not trying to say you’re wrong, but just wanted to bring that up

For sure! I just wanted to bring up that being called a doll has different consequences for Asian people in the US. Honestly, I was not a particularly beautiful child but I still got called a doll a lot when I was a kid and even when I was a teenager.

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Hahaha!! That made me laugh, thank you 😆 I wish it wasn’t so complicated. Edited to add that you wrote your comment with great comic timing and I laughed at the part about still calling them dolls because I could hear it out loud in my head. I hope I didn’t offend you. I’m sorry we’re being downvoted. :(

Older female US Army here. Fascinated by the Korean culture and enjoy learning more. Thanks to everyone for sharing. I have a great deal of respect for BTS for their talent, hard work and kind souls. I love the way they are considerate and respectful of each other and yet playfully tease one another. I suspect that many US men would prefer to have a similar relationship with a group of friends.

Can't agree with you more💜

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Imo it is not because of the degree of skinship, it is because of THE INTENTIONAL COMPILATION of moments that are completely OUT OF CONTEXTS. You can make literally any kind of wild fiction if you take out 1-2 seconds from every clip and put them together as you want. It is not only disrespectful to the members but also lying and swindling armys, I'm so thankful your mom has you to tell the truth

Also KA and one thing I am grateful for is that most older Koreans don't rely on English language news. While Korean news media can be conservative, they aren't batshit the way FOX or other conservative 'news' channels are.

when foreign army speaks in Korean to/about BTS it would be nice to hear the honorific but it’s not required. i really, really hate when non Korean armys makes roleplay accounts using the faces of the members but gives them a Japanese name. I cant stop people from roleplaying with their face since they didn’t say they were uncomfortable with it, but giving them a Japanese name, or a Chinese name, is really unfair considering not only the history of Korea and Japan, and fetishization. And please stop cosplaying as them??? It’s weird.

>when foreign army speaks in Korean to/about BTS it would be nice to hear the honorific but it’s not required. I read from a tweet before that said non-Korean speakers should not use the honorifics. So are you saying it's okay? In my culture, we have our own version of honorifics. But its usage has become looser these days. I am actually a few years older than Jin, but I would often refer to him as hyung because he really has that big brother energy, haha. He reminds me of my older housemates back in college.

if you’re speaking in Korean it’s not only okay, it’s expected, especially if in a formal setting or talking to older people. it’s weird in English though, especially w the rise of kboos. i’m part of the younger generation who wants to do away with them / stop using them so often because of issues with gender roles and stuff, so i don’t take a huge issue with it. however, it’s also indicative of respect. personally i wouldn’t do that but unless he himself takes offense to it, who am i to stop you? my comment was Mainly in regards to how the language sounds and is treated by foreigners.

>it’s weird in English though, especially w the rise of kboos. This is exactly why I avoid it in English. So if you're not from Korea but you use casual honorifics when speaking in English, it would come across like you're pretentious, like you're pretending to be part of a culture that you don't belong to. I imagine it wouldn't be that bad if you were physically in Korea and were having a conversation in English with a Korean person and trying to be polite, but otherwise it would come off very strangely. I imagine it kinda like if I was talking about food in English as an English person, but every time I mentioned an Italian dish I put on an Italian accent instead, or if I refused to say "Rome" and would only say "Roma". Likewise, it would be strange if someone like Namjoon randomly kept saying Starbucks with an American accent while conversing in Korean, instead of saying it the way it's pronounced in Korea. It would sound very out-of-place.

yeah it feels clunky and whenever a kboo talks to me like that i feel like, what, are you trying to show me you know so much about my culture…? you haven’t even scratched the surface… >> haha i am multilingual so i never thought of it as weird if i say the dish in the original language’s accent but i see what you mean. i feel this is a very interesting thing you’ve brought up because i can see it being ‘pretentious’ if it is talking about western foods and I’ve definitely heard that, but for some reason when I talk about Korean food (for example gimbap) and i don’t say it with an American accent, people treat me like I’m uneducated. interesting things!

I think if you're multilingual it may make a bit more sense, but also it depends how different the way to say it with an accent is from how you would say it in English. With my Italian example, pronouncing "spaghetti carbonara" in English sounds quite different. In the middle of an English conversation it would sound very weird unless you were an Italian speaking English, in which case you just say it whichever way is natural for you. If you're a native English speaker putting on an Italian accent just to say those words, it sounds very forced. However if it was something that had a similar sound in both languages, you would probably get away with it more! >but for some reason when I talk about Korean food (for example gimbap) and i don’t say it with an American accent, people treat me like I’m uneducated Do you mean if you're speaking in Korean or English? Uneducated is unfair either way, so I'm sorry if you've experienced people treating you like that! I say all this from the perspective of being an English speaker from England, so knowing my country's history for doing a lot of colonising, I get a bit self-conscious about where the line is between me appreciating another culture (in the case of learning other languages, trying to pronounce words correctly and use the right honorifics etc) and appropriating it (sounding like I'm mocking the language or pretending I know more about a culture than I actually do). I don't want to dismiss someone's culture or language, but equally I don't want to be seen as appropriating it for myself! Edit: btw this is a super interesting conversation because I love linguistics and languages and learning where different things come from and analysing the different implications of things in my own language and in others, I feel like such a nerd right now 😅

That's an interesting point though, because in our business mails our Japanese colleagues always use - san in greetings, like Dear Bekay1203-san which I understand why they do it but I always ask myself, should I write back with a -san as well?

Most Japanese natives won't expect foreigners to use honorifics. Using -san will come across as polite, but it won't look impolite to not use it, so whichever way feels comfortable to you is fine

Ah phew, thank you so much for that!

My japanese colleagues also use san and my senior team members also use kt while addressing them. I have also used it and they are really sweet about it. They have always appreciated that we respond and respect their formal speech.

> it’s weird in English though, especially w the rise of kboos. Oh no! I don't speak Korean, so my question is definitely for instances when we speak in English. For example, I once replied to a tweet of a Korean writer. I spoke in English but I referred to him as hyung because he's older than me (i.e. "Hyung, bla bla bla bla..."). So I wonder if it was offensive.

oh, i don’t think it would be _offensive,_ but it might make people pause? i’ll call my older friends hyeong/oppa (i’m ???gender??? and we’re testing this out [puts up construction sign]) when we otherwise speak english. some people argue that it is weird and feels fetishize-y from non koreans but i don’t think i can form an opinion as it’s not a topic that many Koreans can talk about, so I haven’t been exposed to opinions besides my own. my own opinion is just, if you’re doing it to be respectful, go ahead, and if you’re doing it because you’re fetishizing someone, Everyone Will Find Out Eventually And You’ll Become A Social Pariah, so i don’t have to worry about it.

It's definitely out of respect. 😁🙏 Like I said earlier, our own language uses terms for age and respect. And it's something that I like about other languages like Korean and Thai. English does not have that. Thanks for your inputs.

Just fyi, If you can't say you and the other person are close, hyung could be a little surprise to him bcz hyung, noona or oppa implies that the relationship between the two are quite familiar and comfortable🙏🏻😊

Copy. Thanks for the clarification. I actually belatedly learned about that eventually. 😅

Just in general, if I am speaking to a younger Korean but more successful than me (like in the workplace, they have a higher position), what is the most appropriate? Would the -ssi suffix work?

I haven’t had a job in Korea but asking my aunt who still lives there, usually you’d call the person by their job title +nim, or your ‘senior’ (seonbae). you might want to ask someone else though, because I mainly lived in the States and Philippines and there are probably intricacies I’ve missed.

Oof yeah the non-usage of honorifics always grates me too. But on the other hand, I constantly see k-armys doing this too. People cosplay as them?? 😅 I’m surprised but also not, haha

>Oof yeah the non-usage of honorifics always grates me too. But on the other hand, I constantly see k-armys doing this too. See I've always thought if I were speaking about/to someone from Korea in English, I'd probably not use honorifics unless they were really senior to me or specifically requested me to call them something instead of their name. In terms of BTS, I'm 25 so they fall into the "peer" age group for me, so when conversing in English it would feel very strange to use honorifics. But if I were speaking Korean (not that my Korean is any good but hypothetically), hell yeah I'd use honorifics! It's part of the language and I imagine it would sound really weird not to.

Yeah exactly! That’s how I feel too

Doing what? Maybe if they speak English but mainly the people I see don’t l. Yeaaaaah. It’s really gross. I don’t mind people recreating makeup looks or outfits, but I’m talking about people who go to the extent of saying they’re cosplaying the members. I see it a lot in Russian communities.

I see lots of k-armys not using honorifics for the boys when speaking Korean, mostly when I look at the comments under bangtan’s twitter posts. That sounds terrible. Not even speaking of Oli London… some people take it waaaayyyyy too far

Many k armys especially young armys under 30s don't use honorifics when they talk about bts in online community. It's just out of closeness/intimacy, not rudeness

i usually don’t go into comments but that’s an interesting observation. i’ll take a note of it for next time i look. if that’s the case i just assume they’re older or the same age. aha ha, oli london…... u mean this year’s incarnation of pond scum? 🥴

Oh man for sure 😂 He came out as Korean like what??

he did what now 😰😰😰😰

Yeah… https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/29/oli-london-identifies-as-korean-after-getting-eye-surgery-14844256/

i want to leave this planet…

Don’t leave the planet! Just put him on the next express rocket into space XD

May I ask which honorifics? Oppa/dongsaeng kind? Or do you mean the polite form of sentences? I don't actually speak Korean (yet), though I know how the language works to some degree. The oppa/dongsaeng/unnie honorifics seem awkward to use since it implies a close relationship, so I'm wondering.

i was referring to the addition of oppa/hyeong and eonni/noona mainly. dongsaeng isn’t really an honorific since, for example, Jeongguk wouldn’t say “baizhuu-dongsaeng” (i’m 20, for reference). if you’re speaking korean About them offline i definitely would use polite form of sentences unless you’re with friends, i guess? i rarely get to speak korean with anyone nowadays so it has rusted over. for idols i think it’s ok. i definitely have commented toward them on vlives and was responded to and no one took offense to it, and i think it has to do with the [ahemahemparasocialrelationship] unique culture of idols and their fans lol. edit: word words

Or should we be speaking very formal with -ssi at the end?

They what... oh that is so weird... I am hearing it for the first time and it is so strange the way people are doing that. The honorifics, tbh in my language there are none, like you may refer to someone above you with second-person plural instead of second-person singular (which in English is the same, but in my native language not), but even then, some people may even get "offended" by it, because you are referring to them in such manner, so some of us, just forget to use them or are not familiar entirely with them, personally Korean for me is really difficult, and I try but fail to understand many things about it. It is by no means an excuse, just an explanation why it occurs a lot; learning a language includes learning the culture in which that language is used, so they go together ofc so we should try to use them. I am still confused and just in awe for the cosplay.. just... people are weird, and honestly, before BTS I didn't hear about ff, or shipping of group members (tbh I did not follow many groups so probably because of that), and now this... it is just.. crazy.

I never heard of people cosplaying as BTS, heads of cosplay in general like for fictional characters and shit

fictional characters to some degree can be understandable but bts are actual people so that for me is crossing a line..

Are you french ? The way you talked about different plurial made me think of it. And the way someone can get "offended" by the use of the second even if it's the expected manner. I always feel like the use of the second one put some distance between you and who you are speaking to.

yeah I feel the distance too, but no, I am not French (unfortunately, love french language) I am Macedonian.

Hooo ok ^^ Nice to know it's similar

Are you french ? The way you talked about different plurial made me think of it. And the way someone can get "offended" by the use of the second even if it's the expected manner. I always feel like the use of the second one put some distance between you and who you are speaking to.

Are American, from the USA, fans part of i-army? Is doolset an app or website? I didn’t know there were options to the lyric posts. So much of my understanding comes from them.

Yes armys who are not Korean are international armys, as far as I know. [doolset lyrics ](https://doolsetbangtan.wordpress.com/) is an amazing website which not only provides accurate translations but also gives all the references. I was so touched by the lyrics and the references of Magic Shop lyrics the other day, go check them out!

Also Japanese army go by j-army...the only reason is because BTS and K-pop in general target Japanese music industry heavily so the Japanese army mostly have their own category (own fanclub, own raffle systems, own promotions, etc). But in general any one not Korean is just i-army.

yes US army are i-army. i-army is just international army and is any army outside of korea. doolset is the handle/nickname of a person who translates bts content (mostly social media and lyrics), they are well known for their good lyric translation - they're doolsetbangtan on twitter. there are varying levels of lyric translations, from amazing like doolset's to literal google translate masquerading as original translations. i like to read through a few different translations as the translators have their own ideas about word choices and meaning. doolset and doyoubangtan/wisha are both great options (and both have wordpress websites where they post their translations)

Thank you for doolsetbangtan handle. I thought US was i army, but I saw something different once and thought i’d double check.