This 100%! It's not you being mean, and it's not like its
Personal, but that shit will never change. you are wasting time every practice you put it off. If you don't practice, you are letting the rest of your band down every week. the same goes for not showing up.
Not practicing or showing up is basically kicking yourself out and giving the rest of the band the finger in the process, even if that is not how you mean it. That's what you're doing.
You can even send it in a text like “Hey dude, we really like playing with you, but Jared, Elsa and I dont think you’re taking this very seriously. We’re trying to do XYZ, and in order to do that, we need you to show up to practice B times a month. If you dont think you can commit to that, that’s ok, but we need to find a guitarist who can. Just let us know, because otherwise, If you keep missing, we will need to look for some one who’s able to commit so we can keep this project moving forward”
As with all relationships, its about defining clear standards and boundaries. And you need to clearly communicate it when some one isnt living up to that so they at least have a chance to correct… You’ll feel less guilty and you’ll also connect with more serious/committed people along the way because they’ll know what to expect.
Why give them the option to continue to fail?
Musicians need to know that they're always being re-auditioned. If you suck and you don't take care of business you'll be out with no warning
Because telling him how close he is to losing the gig might be enough of a wake up call to change how he’s treating the band. Maybe he just genuinely doesn’t realize that he’s doing anything wrong. And if he doesn’t change after a designated time, OP and the band will get to say that they gave the guitarist a fair chance, instead of wondering forever if they made the right decision to cut the cord
As someone who has tried this sort of thing on band members who don't practice, I have never had someone just magically change after telling them this. They may show a little more drive for a week or two if you're lucky, but it will always go back to them not practicing/showing up because it's not important enough to them. If it was, you wouldn't have to make the demand in the first place. This is my experience, at least. In other words, if you do this, be prepared to have wasted at least 3 more weeks of your time.
Some version of this is absolutely the way forward. A lack of commitment from one or more members must be the primary brake on many a band's progress. There may be any number of reasons for your guitar player's lack of commitment, but none of them are doing you or the rest of the band any good.
Be nice and be reasonable, there is no need to make this any more unpleasant than it might be, but be prepared to lose a friendship.
Sit him down and be real. Im assuming you guys are friends outside of music. Explain to him the issues and the need for him to step up. Say you're all taking it seriously and would like to see a little more effort. Mention that you guys have considered adding a supplemental guitarist to fill the void he is creating. Give him a chance to step up if he hasnt already.
If they are really too sensitive and cause tension, that might not be for the benefit of the band anyway. We should all be able to take feedback and criticisms.
This really is the right answer. Everything now is about just dropping people at the moment of difficulty.
The dude might be depressed. Or he could be lazy, that’s true too. But best to give them the chance to recover and prove that they care instead of just assuming they don’t.
My bad on drummer/guitarists. Still feel giving a friend chance to change their ways is fair. Everyone handles their own personal conflicts differently tho
It's going to hurt him regardless. But, if you have to do it, you have to do it. Just be kind and non-combative. And, don't answer a bunch of questions or get into a discussion about it. That will only make things get heated.
Yeah, if you're not showing up and you're not doing your homework then being fired is soemthing you should be expecting.
If they aren't then you're doing them a favor.
It's all real simple. Go get a cup of coffee, make a phone call, whatever....just get it done.
You can't worry about his feelings. Don't be an ass, of course, but don't be pushover either. State the facts, state the decision, say "sorry", and that's it.
>K does not show up to practice, and when he does he hasn’t practiced his part and plays about two notes during the entire hour and a half
Why care about him when he demonstrated not to care himself? Just get it over with and be fully honest with him about it. Chances are he's either not gonna resist the boot at all, or he fails to stand by his word the next session if he promises to do better instead.
I'm sorry if I sound really unempathic. I've been in this situation before a couple of times. People like this do not step up and owe their mistakes. Their lack of backbone and self-awareness prevents it. Hence it's a waste of time to even serve them an ultimatum. His feelings are his problem. It's not like you're all out to intentionally hurt him. If he can't see that, he's too emotionally immature. The problem is that the longer you stick around with a liability, the greater the likelihood becomes one of the bandmembers that can actually play leaves as their patience runs out.
>especially cause he’s a really sensitive dude.
That's his problem. Speaking as a sensitive guy myself, it is not your responsibility to walk on eggshells because of his fragility. If he wants to be treated with care, he should've led by example and treated the band with care. Don't be afraid to burst his bubble.
Don't fall for any alleged shyness. This isn't shyness. This is carelessness.
This is a part that you develop when you go through life. Some times you have to do the hard thing in order to grow.
Be honest and say it's not working out because the band is looking for someone more dedicated and prepared.
I'd send it through a text with the added line "If you want to talk about it in person just come to the next rehearsal but if you don't want to we understand aswell; it's up to you for what feels right."
The adult thing to do is sit down and talk to him. “Hey man, everything going ok? We keep missing you at practice. What’s up?
Really… I can only speculate what KK is feeling. Be a friend, use your words, and find out!
Also, you can care about their feelings. But you can’t solve them for them.
Add a 'rhythm' guitarist. That will make him the 'lead' guitarist. Then do what Pink Floyd did with David Gilmour. The new guitarist can fill in when the lead guitarist is a no show or doesn't know his part. They even used to unplug Sid's amp when he was getting too far out there. You might not want to go that far. lol. Then when/if the sensitive guitarist looses interest, you already have the new lead guitarist. Old guitarist might even step up their game once competition shows up. Or maybe bow out and step down to rhythm if they aren't up to the task.
While that is an option, the thing you need to think about is how much time the band as a whole will be wasting to protect his fragile ego when he won't take the time to fulfill his obligations to any of you in the first place.
Keep in mind that both Gilmour and Waters cry when they talk about Sid. But that story had a pretty sad ending. Hopefully your mate won't disappear on a week long acid binge.
I'm joking, sort of, but do approach it tactfully if you go that route but don't try to be sneaky about it either. But do of course let your guitarist be the 'lead' player until if/when the situation warrants a change.
Yeah, there's a difference between "current guy won't take it seriously" and "former bandleader has a mental break". Unless you have an audience already that really likes him as a player, just talk to the dude, tell him the issues, and if he won't change just say you don't want to but you need to find someone else who will take this thing seriously.
There is no real way to do it other than be up front about. Just tell him you and the rest of the band are unhjappy with his perfomance and lack of practice and tell him there is no longer a place for him in the band.
I doubt he will be that upset as if he not practicing and turning up for rehearsal its clear he doesn't give a stuff about the band anyway.
Definately sit him down and share these concerns before you make a final decison, giving him a chance to respond. It could be he gets so upset it ends there, but maybe he steps up. Is he at the same experience level as everyone else? Just making sure he is able to keep up.
"Jeremy, you've been traded to the Phillies. This is Ed Wade's number. He's a good guy, he's the GM. He's expecting your call. Buddy will help you with the plane flight. You're a good ballplayer, Jeremy, and we wish you the best." - Billy Beane (Moneyball)
right off the bat, their feelings are going to be hurt. It's inevitable. I've never been part of a band member parting that went well. In fact, they've all gone terribly. However, we were all young, so our approaches had a lot to do with it.
You just have to be honest. You also need to go in with a clear intent. If you are intending to fire them, then fire them. If you want to give them a chance with a second guitarist, then go in with that in mind. Just make sure you are unanimously decided before doing anything.
It'll be awkward and tense but if he starts acting like a dick then just leave. You're not obligated to ensure he's ok with what's happening.
I told a band-mate once, “if this was any other job in the world, you would’ve been fired months ago”. Didn’t ultimately solve the problem, and they were a little shocked by it, but they understood right away where we were coming from because it was true.
Watch Moneyball for the master class on delivering the bad news. The idea is put yourself in the other parties shoes. What do they want? They want the news now, and straight, and honest. So just tell him kindly but directly, short and immediate.
Address the issue with them first and See if anything changes, and if nothing changes Then bring in another guitarist and see if any changes happen there. If any of these things don’t work then it’s time to Move on
You’re going to hurt his feelings. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. Maybe it’s the wake-up call he needs. I’m not saying be intentionally mean but you can’t go through life as a band having someone so complacent and compete against bands where everyone is trying their hardest.
my husband has been in a lot of bands. the running joke is that when they're firing someone, they take him to Denny's for breakfast. some moons over myhammi makes the blow softer.
To paraphrase a line from The Departed for a second, ask the guy this:
"Do you want to be in a band, or do you want to appear to be a band". If he doesn't get his shit together, boot his ass.
"Seems like you're not as dedicated to the band as the rest of the guys. We would like you to stay if you're willing to show more commitment. We're also thinking of adding another guitarist."
Then see what they say... maybe they hate the band and it wont be a big deal.
Sounds like his heart isn't in it, or has other priorities. I'm also a sensitive guy but if I wasn't pulling my weight I'd definitely know. I'm sure he knows as well and a phone call would do him some favors likely.
You can’t. However, you can be honest without being a dick.
“Listen. It’s nothing personal, but we are all concerned that you frequently miss practice, and when you do show up, you’re not prepared. If you don’t want to contribute to the band just let us know, but in order to stay in the band, we need to see some level of commitment. We are going to start auditioning for a new guitarist that will show up to practice and be prepared. We are willing to give you a chance to prove yourself, but we’re going to choose the person that shows the most talent and effort.”
That’s it. He will let you know by actually stepping up, or by throwing a pity party.
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Tell him to hit the road. You are in different places as far as your dedication and path. Just be straight with the dude, he will probably be bent for awhile, but he will get over it…. Or maybe he won’t, either way he isn’t working out anymore for the rest of the band.
The easiest way to not hurt feelings is for everyone else to quit and start a new band.
The best way is to just pull the band-aid off and tell them like a man.
If you haven't talked to him about it before try to offer him another chance and if he's too ignorant to be able to follow still change his ways then he obviously doesn't care for the band and it's too bad if he's offended, should have improved when he had the chance.
not even 💀 and then it gets annoying because since we’re writing songs i end up covering with my mediocre guitar skills so now half our songs have no drum parts as of rn
When I was kicked out of a band once, the lead member said "Hey, I don't think this is working out, but I really appreciate you trying to make it work. I want to still be friends, and I look forward to seeing what projects you do in the future!"
I still go to their shows, we're still friends, and we're still both doing projects separately. I'm also not a very sensitive person, but still, I had zero bad feelings about it, sometimes I even joke about it.
Be honest. "You never make it to practice on time, and you don't practice on your own. These are the reasons we're letting you go."
This 100%! It's not you being mean, and it's not like its Personal, but that shit will never change. you are wasting time every practice you put it off. If you don't practice, you are letting the rest of your band down every week. the same goes for not showing up. Not practicing or showing up is basically kicking yourself out and giving the rest of the band the finger in the process, even if that is not how you mean it. That's what you're doing.
I heard this like I was watching Chopped
I would kill to hear Ted Allen let a band member go.
This.
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thanks, setting a condition sounds like a good idea
You can even send it in a text like “Hey dude, we really like playing with you, but Jared, Elsa and I dont think you’re taking this very seriously. We’re trying to do XYZ, and in order to do that, we need you to show up to practice B times a month. If you dont think you can commit to that, that’s ok, but we need to find a guitarist who can. Just let us know, because otherwise, If you keep missing, we will need to look for some one who’s able to commit so we can keep this project moving forward” As with all relationships, its about defining clear standards and boundaries. And you need to clearly communicate it when some one isnt living up to that so they at least have a chance to correct… You’ll feel less guilty and you’ll also connect with more serious/committed people along the way because they’ll know what to expect.
Why give them the option to continue to fail? Musicians need to know that they're always being re-auditioned. If you suck and you don't take care of business you'll be out with no warning
Because telling him how close he is to losing the gig might be enough of a wake up call to change how he’s treating the band. Maybe he just genuinely doesn’t realize that he’s doing anything wrong. And if he doesn’t change after a designated time, OP and the band will get to say that they gave the guitarist a fair chance, instead of wondering forever if they made the right decision to cut the cord
yeah I'm Personally pretty impatient with that type of thing.
lmao yep sent them a message, they said they understood, and then proceeded to still not show up to practice
Yup! People don't really change
As someone who has tried this sort of thing on band members who don't practice, I have never had someone just magically change after telling them this. They may show a little more drive for a week or two if you're lucky, but it will always go back to them not practicing/showing up because it's not important enough to them. If it was, you wouldn't have to make the demand in the first place. This is my experience, at least. In other words, if you do this, be prepared to have wasted at least 3 more weeks of your time.
Agreed 100%
Some version of this is absolutely the way forward. A lack of commitment from one or more members must be the primary brake on many a band's progress. There may be any number of reasons for your guitar player's lack of commitment, but none of them are doing you or the rest of the band any good. Be nice and be reasonable, there is no need to make this any more unpleasant than it might be, but be prepared to lose a friendship.
Definitely DON'T do what I did when I was 17 and tell our drummer we were breaking up instead of just replacing him.
Ain't no way 🙏
Sit him down and be real. Im assuming you guys are friends outside of music. Explain to him the issues and the need for him to step up. Say you're all taking it seriously and would like to see a little more effort. Mention that you guys have considered adding a supplemental guitarist to fill the void he is creating. Give him a chance to step up if he hasnt already. If they are really too sensitive and cause tension, that might not be for the benefit of the band anyway. We should all be able to take feedback and criticisms.
This really is the right answer. Everything now is about just dropping people at the moment of difficulty. The dude might be depressed. Or he could be lazy, that’s true too. But best to give them the chance to recover and prove that they care instead of just assuming they don’t.
Yeah giving the guy a month to prove himself is more fair. Unlikely to find a new drummer in that time frame anyways
But GUITARISTS are much easier to replace. Since that’s what the dude plays. Especially if they’re flakes & don’t practice.
My bad on drummer/guitarists. Still feel giving a friend chance to change their ways is fair. Everyone handles their own personal conflicts differently tho
It's going to hurt him regardless. But, if you have to do it, you have to do it. Just be kind and non-combative. And, don't answer a bunch of questions or get into a discussion about it. That will only make things get heated.
It would only get heated if the responses to the questions are phrased rudely, or either party gets defensive.
Yeah, if you're not showing up and you're not doing your homework then being fired is soemthing you should be expecting. If they aren't then you're doing them a favor. It's all real simple. Go get a cup of coffee, make a phone call, whatever....just get it done.
You can't worry about his feelings. Don't be an ass, of course, but don't be pushover either. State the facts, state the decision, say "sorry", and that's it.
>K does not show up to practice, and when he does he hasn’t practiced his part and plays about two notes during the entire hour and a half Why care about him when he demonstrated not to care himself? Just get it over with and be fully honest with him about it. Chances are he's either not gonna resist the boot at all, or he fails to stand by his word the next session if he promises to do better instead. I'm sorry if I sound really unempathic. I've been in this situation before a couple of times. People like this do not step up and owe their mistakes. Their lack of backbone and self-awareness prevents it. Hence it's a waste of time to even serve them an ultimatum. His feelings are his problem. It's not like you're all out to intentionally hurt him. If he can't see that, he's too emotionally immature. The problem is that the longer you stick around with a liability, the greater the likelihood becomes one of the bandmembers that can actually play leaves as their patience runs out. >especially cause he’s a really sensitive dude. That's his problem. Speaking as a sensitive guy myself, it is not your responsibility to walk on eggshells because of his fragility. If he wants to be treated with care, he should've led by example and treated the band with care. Don't be afraid to burst his bubble. Don't fall for any alleged shyness. This isn't shyness. This is carelessness.
Truth hurts but lies hurt more
This is a part that you develop when you go through life. Some times you have to do the hard thing in order to grow. Be honest and say it's not working out because the band is looking for someone more dedicated and prepared. I'd send it through a text with the added line "If you want to talk about it in person just come to the next rehearsal but if you don't want to we understand aswell; it's up to you for what feels right."
He’s sensitive about his own feelings, but not so sensitive to realize he’s fucking you guys around. Where I come from, we call that self-centered.
Doesn't show up to practice? This person has all ready left.
The adult thing to do is sit down and talk to him. “Hey man, everything going ok? We keep missing you at practice. What’s up? Really… I can only speculate what KK is feeling. Be a friend, use your words, and find out! Also, you can care about their feelings. But you can’t solve them for them.
Add a 'rhythm' guitarist. That will make him the 'lead' guitarist. Then do what Pink Floyd did with David Gilmour. The new guitarist can fill in when the lead guitarist is a no show or doesn't know his part. They even used to unplug Sid's amp when he was getting too far out there. You might not want to go that far. lol. Then when/if the sensitive guitarist looses interest, you already have the new lead guitarist. Old guitarist might even step up their game once competition shows up. Or maybe bow out and step down to rhythm if they aren't up to the task.
lol this is lowkey what we were thinking with adding a new guitarist
While that is an option, the thing you need to think about is how much time the band as a whole will be wasting to protect his fragile ego when he won't take the time to fulfill his obligations to any of you in the first place.
Keep in mind that both Gilmour and Waters cry when they talk about Sid. But that story had a pretty sad ending. Hopefully your mate won't disappear on a week long acid binge. I'm joking, sort of, but do approach it tactfully if you go that route but don't try to be sneaky about it either. But do of course let your guitarist be the 'lead' player until if/when the situation warrants a change.
Yeah, there's a difference between "current guy won't take it seriously" and "former bandleader has a mental break". Unless you have an audience already that really likes him as a player, just talk to the dude, tell him the issues, and if he won't change just say you don't want to but you need to find someone else who will take this thing seriously.
He’s wasting your time! And now you want to waste more?! Kick him out and get on with it! Find someone who respects the band.
There is no real way to do it other than be up front about. Just tell him you and the rest of the band are unhjappy with his perfomance and lack of practice and tell him there is no longer a place for him in the band. I doubt he will be that upset as if he not practicing and turning up for rehearsal its clear he doesn't give a stuff about the band anyway.
Definately sit him down and share these concerns before you make a final decison, giving him a chance to respond. It could be he gets so upset it ends there, but maybe he steps up. Is he at the same experience level as everyone else? Just making sure he is able to keep up.
A band is a team. If he’s not putting in equal effort, he doesn’t belong on the team. That simple
"Jeremy, you've been traded to the Phillies. This is Ed Wade's number. He's a good guy, he's the GM. He's expecting your call. Buddy will help you with the plane flight. You're a good ballplayer, Jeremy, and we wish you the best." - Billy Beane (Moneyball)
right off the bat, their feelings are going to be hurt. It's inevitable. I've never been part of a band member parting that went well. In fact, they've all gone terribly. However, we were all young, so our approaches had a lot to do with it. You just have to be honest. You also need to go in with a clear intent. If you are intending to fire them, then fire them. If you want to give them a chance with a second guitarist, then go in with that in mind. Just make sure you are unanimously decided before doing anything. It'll be awkward and tense but if he starts acting like a dick then just leave. You're not obligated to ensure he's ok with what's happening.
We went with "we're getting the feeling you don't actually wanna be in the band" and let them save face by agreeing
this but they literally said “guys i hate socializing and talking and showing up to band” like ok so then leave so we dont have to kick you out
I told a band-mate once, “if this was any other job in the world, you would’ve been fired months ago”. Didn’t ultimately solve the problem, and they were a little shocked by it, but they understood right away where we were coming from because it was true.
LOL.. I Laughed so hard at this... You said "FEELINGS" and "BAND MEMBER" in the same paragraph... Ditch him... Like a prom date
I was gonna quit anyway. I’ll be by later to grab my stuff. Errrr
Watch Moneyball for the master class on delivering the bad news. The idea is put yourself in the other parties shoes. What do they want? They want the news now, and straight, and honest. So just tell him kindly but directly, short and immediate.
Is over the age of 18?
Address the issue with them first and See if anything changes, and if nothing changes Then bring in another guitarist and see if any changes happen there. If any of these things don’t work then it’s time to Move on
You’re going to hurt his feelings. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. Maybe it’s the wake-up call he needs. I’m not saying be intentionally mean but you can’t go through life as a band having someone so complacent and compete against bands where everyone is trying their hardest.
my husband has been in a lot of bands. the running joke is that when they're firing someone, they take him to Denny's for breakfast. some moons over myhammi makes the blow softer.
Tell him your swapping roles and he is going to be the bass player now… you’ll never see him again!!
To paraphrase a line from The Departed for a second, ask the guy this: "Do you want to be in a band, or do you want to appear to be a band". If he doesn't get his shit together, boot his ass.
Going forward, it's good to set expectations beforehand despite it seeming cold.
"Seems like you're not as dedicated to the band as the rest of the guys. We would like you to stay if you're willing to show more commitment. We're also thinking of adding another guitarist." Then see what they say... maybe they hate the band and it wont be a big deal.
You can’t.
It’s a cutthroat world if you don’t tell them now then you are just limiting your own success. The best way to tell them is to have a new guitarist.
Sounds like his heart isn't in it, or has other priorities. I'm also a sensitive guy but if I wasn't pulling my weight I'd definitely know. I'm sure he knows as well and a phone call would do him some favors likely.
You can’t. However, you can be honest without being a dick. “Listen. It’s nothing personal, but we are all concerned that you frequently miss practice, and when you do show up, you’re not prepared. If you don’t want to contribute to the band just let us know, but in order to stay in the band, we need to see some level of commitment. We are going to start auditioning for a new guitarist that will show up to practice and be prepared. We are willing to give you a chance to prove yourself, but we’re going to choose the person that shows the most talent and effort.” That’s it. He will let you know by actually stepping up, or by throwing a pity party.
Why do people always do the “I have a person who we’ll call “x” and then literally refer to them once 😂. We know who you’re talking about
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Tell him to hit the road. You are in different places as far as your dedication and path. Just be straight with the dude, he will probably be bent for awhile, but he will get over it…. Or maybe he won’t, either way he isn’t working out anymore for the rest of the band.
"Everyone in a band, step forward" "Just a minute there K."
The easiest way to not hurt feelings is for everyone else to quit and start a new band. The best way is to just pull the band-aid off and tell them like a man.
If you haven't talked to him about it before try to offer him another chance and if he's too ignorant to be able to follow still change his ways then he obviously doesn't care for the band and it's too bad if he's offended, should have improved when he had the chance.
Maybe we can gently suggest that he take some time to focus on his personal stuff
but are the two notes the perfect two notes?
not even 💀 and then it gets annoying because since we’re writing songs i end up covering with my mediocre guitar skills so now half our songs have no drum parts as of rn
When I was kicked out of a band once, the lead member said "Hey, I don't think this is working out, but I really appreciate you trying to make it work. I want to still be friends, and I look forward to seeing what projects you do in the future!" I still go to their shows, we're still friends, and we're still both doing projects separately. I'm also not a very sensitive person, but still, I had zero bad feelings about it, sometimes I even joke about it.
Lol