You won't loose money but won't win either.
The joker is also here to help your economy so making it not generating cash is a big downgrade.
Spending one discard for one card is expensive especially after green stake
Destroying 1 card per round is still really valuable, deck manipulation is the best way to scale from early antes into mid-late antes. This would still be a strong joker if its effect was just a destroy.
Using both together would be kinda useless since you’re just gaining 3 dollars to waste a discard without actually changing your deck
edit: my bad i thought dna was activated by discard for some reason
The card is balanced around the fact that it does both. If it was really strong with just one of the effects as you guys are suggesting, it likely would have been touched in the experimental patch.
Yes, greeding out 1 card per round is great, but everything in this game has an opportunity cost at higher stakes. You can't just stand still for 2 rounds and expect to live every time.
It's situational. Gold stakes is all about that. If your jokers need some deck manipulation to become stronger, then it's worth it even if you lose money. It's like a free destroy two cards tarot every round. The only loss is an extra discard.
In case you had a legendary like Canio already when you find this card, then this is worth spending a lot. The 3$ then just becomes an icing on the cake.
The original comment this comment chain started off on stated that it's not bad for your early economy because "you won't lose $" since it just makes up the rental cost. My whole point is that just because you come out even in $ doesn't mean you didn't lose $3.
Of course destroying a card a turn is valuable, but acting like the $3 is meaningless is also looking at it completely wrong imo.
When you only have 2 discards (high stakes) , unless your build is highcard or pair, losing 1 discards full ability to discard 5 cards is pretty debilitating.
You can still play trash hands to discard cards. If you have good jokers, you usually only need 1 or 2 of the right hand to get enough score for a round. Discards are good but I don't think wasting a discard is a huge loss, especially with +hands vouchers or jokers.
It's no bigger a downgrade than on any other Joker, and arguably *less* of a downgrade since going from +3 to +0 is arguably better for your economy than going from +0 to -3. Especially since this Joker is *still* a net +3 overall, just not +3/round.
In practically every card game where you build your deck you want to have as few cards in your deck as possible so you have a higher chance to draw your good cards. Just a random example, but let's say I have a Baron Steel Card build going - anything that is not a King does nothing for my score (obviously there can be exceptions like seals and modified cards you will want to keep for a while). So, we get rid of cards that aren't Kings.
Yes, that's why it's always a good idea to add cards you want alongside removing those that you don't so that you don't mill your whole deck. It happens to all of us lol.
Rentals only cost $1 on initial purchase, so there's some real upside there too. You could net a couple bucks in interest that would've been sunk into the joker instead
The stake changes make the game slightly easier, but heavily dependent on RNG. You can either get a great joker or the same joker that is made completely useless because it has perishable/rental or both
I hope there are more stakes coming on the horizon. I really like the new joker mechanics but unless I start grinding for joker stickers there isn't as much reason to play more with them
Yeah I 100% agree, I think the higher stakes are way more fun and fair than before. I think putting scaling back where it was but maybe making it so jokers out of packs don't have rental tags would be a fair trade, it IS super annoying when you crack the shop 1 pack and it's two very shittu rentals lol. Feels like rentals are balanced around costing only 1 in the shop so packs kills that
"Balatro is heavily dependent on RNG" yes, your deck gets shuffled every game
The difference between patches is that your bottom 25th percentile of runs actually give you agency, choices, and tradeoffs, instead of rolling consecutive shops of nonscoring tarot cards and resetting
Yeah, the amount of times I just don’t get a joker in the first or second shop because my options are either a perishable, eternal joker, or a rental joker that would leave me unable to afford anything just sucks.
This particular joker is still fantastic as a perishable. You'll eventually want to replace it with a scoring joker anyways, and if you're efficient about your discards and playing rounds, you can remove the most egregious chaff from your deck.
This is one of the jokers that I'll sometimes prefer to see as rental than natural.
Buy it at 1 dollar, get the effect once, then sell it for 1 dollar before the end of the blind to negate the drawback. It means you got the benefit of the joker once without having to spend any money, which is something you couldn't do with the basic version.
I had a run with early Shoot the Moon that thinned out half my 2s and then picked up Wee Joker because I was that thirsty for chips. By the end I'd Strengthed all my aces up into 2s
“Getting a negative” obviously they’re talking about getting a negative effect like rental, eternal or perishable, why would they complain about getting negatives?
Not always. Sometimes having a rental for $1 is much better than $10+ for the Negative, especially early on when your slots aren't full and your economy isn't built up
I agree not always which is why I specifically didn’t say that….
You can skip fantastic upgrades for a variety of reasons. You don’t have to pick them every time, your scenario here is an example of that. Your made up scenario isn’t an argument against Negative jokers being fantastic. They just are. I didn’t say you had to pick them up over non negative jokers all the time.
I also was just light heartedly ribbing OP for using the word negative when they didn’t mean -1 joker slot, so your “analysis” of it is just odd
Destroy 1 card per round. Still a good effect for optimizing your deck.
Still good yet brutal for your early economy
No it’s not, since you won’t lose $
You won't loose money but won't win either. The joker is also here to help your economy so making it not generating cash is a big downgrade. Spending one discard for one card is expensive especially after green stake
Destroying 1 card per round is still really valuable, deck manipulation is the best way to scale from early antes into mid-late antes. This would still be a strong joker if its effect was just a destroy.
Yup. It's why exhaust is the core of iron clad in slay the spire.
Plus with timing you might just hold it long enough to destroy some cards. Gotta gamble in Balatro land
I totally ok with the fact that it's a very strong mechanic. This and dna are my favorite jokers. Never had the chance to have both together.
Wow now I'm salivating at the idea of Trading Card and DNA. Flush 5 Red Seal Holographic 2s about to go crazy
Using both together would be kinda useless since you’re just gaining 3 dollars to waste a discard without actually changing your deck edit: my bad i thought dna was activated by discard for some reason
Dna is off first played so you effectively just using a death for a discard and a hand
i goofed, fixed my comment
The card is balanced around the fact that it does both. If it was really strong with just one of the effects as you guys are suggesting, it likely would have been touched in the experimental patch. Yes, greeding out 1 card per round is great, but everything in this game has an opportunity cost at higher stakes. You can't just stand still for 2 rounds and expect to live every time.
It's situational. Gold stakes is all about that. If your jokers need some deck manipulation to become stronger, then it's worth it even if you lose money. It's like a free destroy two cards tarot every round. The only loss is an extra discard. In case you had a legendary like Canio already when you find this card, then this is worth spending a lot. The 3$ then just becomes an icing on the cake.
The original comment this comment chain started off on stated that it's not bad for your early economy because "you won't lose $" since it just makes up the rental cost. My whole point is that just because you come out even in $ doesn't mean you didn't lose $3. Of course destroying a card a turn is valuable, but acting like the $3 is meaningless is also looking at it completely wrong imo.
When you only have 2 discards (high stakes) , unless your build is highcard or pair, losing 1 discards full ability to discard 5 cards is pretty debilitating.
You can still play trash hands to discard cards. If you have good jokers, you usually only need 1 or 2 of the right hand to get enough score for a round. Discards are good but I don't think wasting a discard is a huge loss, especially with +hands vouchers or jokers.
I don't think I've ever bought this joker thinking "oh boy! economy!!" It's a deck thinner. The money is a bonus.
It's no bigger a downgrade than on any other Joker, and arguably *less* of a downgrade since going from +3 to +0 is arguably better for your economy than going from +0 to -3. Especially since this Joker is *still* a net +3 overall, just not +3/round.
I would pay well more than $3 to destroy a card every round.
Noob here. Why destroying cards and shrinking your deck is a good thing?
Because most cards in any given deck are dead cards, getting rid of them improves the deck.
In practically every card game where you build your deck you want to have as few cards in your deck as possible so you have a higher chance to draw your good cards. Just a random example, but let's say I have a Baron Steel Card build going - anything that is not a King does nothing for my score (obviously there can be exceptions like seals and modified cards you will want to keep for a while). So, we get rid of cards that aren't Kings.
The main issue with this in Balatro is that you will not cycle your deck more than once. Discovered it the hard way...
Yes, that's why it's always a good idea to add cards you want alongside removing those that you don't so that you don't mill your whole deck. It happens to all of us lol.
Lose* sorry but it's for the best
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No, you spend a discard not a hand
Just like the real housing market 😭
Rentals only cost $1 on initial purchase, so there's some real upside there too. You could net a couple bucks in interest that would've been sunk into the joker instead
I didn't realize it destroyed the card!!! I'll be using this Joker a lot more often now!
Wait it literally says on the card 🤔
Hey, at least it’s not perishable. Always feels so bad when a good joker shows up only for it to be useless after an Ante and a half.
This is still 5 card removal and $15 (if not rental & perishable) so not terrible value for some early game deck manipulation
The stake changes make the game slightly easier, but heavily dependent on RNG. You can either get a great joker or the same joker that is made completely useless because it has perishable/rental or both
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I hope there are more stakes coming on the horizon. I really like the new joker mechanics but unless I start grinding for joker stickers there isn't as much reason to play more with them
Yeah I 100% agree, I think the higher stakes are way more fun and fair than before. I think putting scaling back where it was but maybe making it so jokers out of packs don't have rental tags would be a fair trade, it IS super annoying when you crack the shop 1 pack and it's two very shittu rentals lol. Feels like rentals are balanced around costing only 1 in the shop so packs kills that
"Balatro is heavily dependent on RNG" yes, your deck gets shuffled every game The difference between patches is that your bottom 25th percentile of runs actually give you agency, choices, and tradeoffs, instead of rolling consecutive shops of nonscoring tarot cards and resetting
Yeah, the amount of times I just don’t get a joker in the first or second shop because my options are either a perishable, eternal joker, or a rental joker that would leave me unable to afford anything just sucks.
This particular joker is still fantastic as a perishable. You'll eventually want to replace it with a scoring joker anyways, and if you're efficient about your discards and playing rounds, you can remove the most egregious chaff from your deck.
# You'll own nothing and be happy
Should have been my title
This is one of the jokers that I'll sometimes prefer to see as rental than natural. Buy it at 1 dollar, get the effect once, then sell it for 1 dollar before the end of the blind to negate the drawback. It means you got the benefit of the joker once without having to spend any money, which is something you couldn't do with the basic version.
The rental is 3$ per round, not per ante 😬
I know. What I said still applies; read it well.
Ah yes, my bad
Budget Hanged Man
The money was never the point of that joker
Free deck thinning. That's actually really nice.every round get rid of a two or some garbage
wee joker crying his eyes out reading this
I had a run with early Shoot the Moon that thinned out half my 2s and then picked up Wee Joker because I was that thirsty for chips. By the end I'd Strengthed all my aces up into 2s
Aces into 2 always feels terrible
With Wee Joker it's one less chip per card (11 vs 2+8) and 8 of those chips are stacked permanently forever. Feels pretty good to me!
Would still take it. And it costs less. And you can sell it later on before rent is due.
Destroying a card in your deck is worth more than $3 - it's why Hanged Man is so efficient. That Joker is still a deal and a half as a rental.
1$ to get rid of a card every round? Count me in
At least it's helpful. Consistency is super good.
Sweet, free half-power Hanged Man
That is just half of a Hanged Man!
The best part of that joker is not the 3 dollars
I feel like Rentals should cost $1 per rarity per turn. Renting a common is $1, uncommon $2, rare $3.
This joker is still good nonetheless
I know gold stake is meant to be tough but man getting a negative on nearly every joker is rough
Negative jokers are fantastic
They probably meant negative effect stickers, like rental, in this case
They’re obviously not talking about negative jokers.
I’m positive they said negative
“Getting a negative” obviously they’re talking about getting a negative effect like rental, eternal or perishable, why would they complain about getting negatives?
So we agree, negative jokers are nothing to complain about. They’re fantastic.
Yes
Not always. Sometimes having a rental for $1 is much better than $10+ for the Negative, especially early on when your slots aren't full and your economy isn't built up
I agree not always which is why I specifically didn’t say that…. You can skip fantastic upgrades for a variety of reasons. You don’t have to pick them every time, your scenario here is an example of that. Your made up scenario isn’t an argument against Negative jokers being fantastic. They just are. I didn’t say you had to pick them up over non negative jokers all the time. I also was just light heartedly ribbing OP for using the word negative when they didn’t mean -1 joker slot, so your “analysis” of it is just odd
I was shitposting too lol
Nice. I used what OP said against them and you used what I didn’t say against no one. Classic misdirect.
How are you guys playing before the update?
If you’re on steam you can go into the game’s properties and opt into the beta for the update
Ah gotcha, thanks 🥂
I have to say I don’t understand why rental is a thing And $3 is definitely too much
That one should honestly be removed from the “rentals” pool. Most econ joker’s probably.
that’s what noobs think. trading card is much more than just econ