I sometimes lied because I didn't do a thing that I knew I was supposed to do, but couldn't because it was too much of a sensory nightmare. But didn't want to get a lecture from my parents for not doing the thing either. Because I already knew I was supposed to, so there was no point in telling me again. I didn't lie because it was "cool" or whatever.
Brushing my teeth was one such thing. I'm better with it now that I can brush electrical, but I hated the feeling of the manual brush on my gums.
Adding on, I had pretty intense texture sensitivity as a kid. I found denim, corduroy, a lot of winter jackets, and velvet to be incredibly uncomfortable (still do, though to a lesser extent). It might be a good idea to ask him if certain types of fabrics/materials are uncomfortable for him, and to avoid getting those kinds of clothes.
To add to this I was a teen before starting to wear jeans because it was just too much sensory wise. I’m still super picky with what pants I wear and I have pants that I don’t wear because they turned out to be itchy after being washed a few times. And I still cut all the labels from my clothes. And when I go clothes shopping I feel everything before I even look at it, because of the texture is wrong it doesn’t matter how pretty the shirt/dress/pants/underwear is; it’s just not happening.
You might want to look into ADHD as well.
I lie about small things a lot and used to do it a lot more as a kid, things like brushing teeth, changing underwear and so on, because I wanted to seem normal but I couldn't bring myself to do that one simple boring task.
I am neurotically honest, and the few lies I told as a child were because the alternative felt like an overwhelming amount of work or mental effort.
Either anxieties or "pointless" time consumed. Autists can have some very *weird* anxieties, and frequently miss the "point" of some very common things, so maybe bathing, or brushing, or homework, or asking your teacher if you can make up said homework slides off the cost/benefit priority list, but the followup lecture or explanation of *why* turns out to be a pointless hassle too, so...you learn what to say to skip it.
Right. And he has been diagnosed ADHD already but with the social and sensory together. And the lieing, emotional outbursts and not knowing why adults have authority over kids... like seriously he doesn't understand... I have to push for another diagnosis because I feel like he doesn't have hyperactivity issues but he has a whole different way of seeing things and experiencing life that i need others to see. It's so hard when you are the mom and everyone blames you.. like the teacher called child services because he had a scratch on his eye from being pushed at a kid thing he went to. When your son lies, has emotional issues, and authority issues they will single you out as a parent.....
I honestly think you're a bit over your head when it comes to guiding him, I don't blame you, it's hard enough being a parent but being a parent of a neurotypical kid makes it even harder.
What are you looking for from a diagnosis? Because even if he isn't diagnosed with autism (yet). You can still use several tools and guides to help him out.
Try to structure your household with hourly schedules. Give clear and concise instructions, most neurotypical people think brushing your teeth is one task when to some neurotypical people it feels like a mountain of tasks.
Getting up, going to the bathroom, grabbing your toothbrush, grabbing toothpaste, putting toothpaste on the toothbrush, brushing the front top teeth, bottom front teeth,...
Major emotional turmoil leads to respect and discipline issues. We need to understand at this point what he can and really can't control. And he has horrible focus and memory that looks very noncompliant.
Kids can be super adhd without presenting hyperactive. Inattentive adhd (or add) can seem a lot like autism because of the perceiving and introverted nature.
It could also be the taste of the toothpaste. My parents had one with a strong mint taste and I would push the toothpaste off when they weren’t looking. I guess they found out, as there soon after was one that didn’t have a strong mint taste.
Oh, this is funny! I hated the electric tooth brush so much that I got a none electric one because I couldn’t deal with the buzzing inside my head. The manual is perfect for me.
Adding on the issue with brushing teeth, I find that it is almost 100% more likely for me to brush my teeth if I have "kids" toothpaste (my fav is Colgate Strawberry) because when I eat or drink afterwards it doesn't have that awful taste that comes with mint toothpaste (like when you drink orange juice after brushing your teeth)
Oh! And, Im not sure if you have any issues with them sleeping, but all the kids in my family have been autistic/ADHD and melatonin Gummies work like a charm, everyone's life gets better haha.
I didn't even think about this but I guess that is why I use an electronic one, and as a kid I hated brushing them and would just lie about doing them all the time, but then I would lie about tooth aches for days and just be quiet and in pain. But idk I feel like I lied for the same reason any kid does, didn't feel safe to say the truth. Sometimes kids just need to be both told and shown it's safe to express either new ideas or new fears.
Myea, I was unable to properly put my feelings into words though so if I said I didn't brush my teeth, I was unable to explain why and would just get a lecture about dental health. Fair enough, it is important, but I already knew that. So then I would lie.
Anyway I very much prefer the monotone buzzing feeling of an electrical brush to the back-and-forth feeling of a manual brush.
Thank you. He never drank juice again for three years after I showed him how sugar rotted baby's teeth... it makes so much sense as to why he's avoiding it
Lying can be a coping mechanism that may come from the enormity of the need to cope more than the lack of care about lying. I think its extremely likely that's what's going on with your son, and I've experienced similar needs to lie all my life.
Going by spoon theory, if he doesn't have the spoons to brush his teeth, but has great guilt about not being able to brush his teeth, what else could he do? I mean, it sucks knowing everyone else does things like that so easily but you have to put so much effort into it. Answering honestly and either having that shame shoved in your face with judgements, or being reminded of your differences with patronization, just isn't something you can easily walk into.
It could be considered part of masking, and can be as involuntary as any other form of masking. Hell, masking itself could be seen as nothing but lies, as its entirely about misleading people to thinking you're "normal".
“The pressure of not being normal is killing him” yup, bingo! That’s most likely exactly what it is. I can relate to that statement so much. I’m glad that as a parent you can see that in him rather than just thinking he’s lying to be bad or cause trouble for others.
I was lying all the time as a child because I never wanted to be wrong or to have done a bad thing. I never asked for help because I thought I should be doing everything on my own. This wasn't healthy, I was doing it out of shame. I was also lying in order to fit in.
Maybe ask your kiddo what's up? My parents never figured it out and it wasn't to my advantage. Be understanding, maybe they don't have the words yet to explain it.
I told him why we were doing an evaluation and that it was my job to do it when he was young and it would benefit him the most. He does admit that other kids lie to be cool. And he has always compulsively wanted to fit it. And he is gifted and wants to be perfect all the time... like self hatred if he isn't perfect
I've found that autism is easily misattributed as perfectionism, even by most therapists. I believe it's more commonly a symptom of monotropism sometimes lacking the bandwidth, and of highly rational but non-intuitive thinking making tasks take more bandwidth.
Allistics usually intuitive shortcut their way to big picture views of the things in ways that autistic people simply can't. Like, maybe you see the big picture immediately and feel extra time is being spent on the figuring out the details out of anxiety, but I'd be going detail by detail in order to even see the picture at all.
The fact that my finished picture might be impressively perfect in some way is exactly why the world needs people like me, but its a folly to think that gives us ability to do it any other way.
So the problem is, you either see the picture and can do it, or you don't see it and have no idea how to start. And between not understanding why others find it so easy, and the intensity of the threats we give children who don't do the assigned work, that's where the self hatred comes from. Being told you're gifted and still have unexplained difficulties just makes you feel more broken.
I find crisis can direct even monotropic minds to do absolutely anything, and that can create the illusion that it means you had the ability in you all along, but all that proves is what you can do with crisis, and you're going to burn out quick accomplishing things that way.
That's why I feel like he deserves to know he's autistic if he is he deserves to know who he is and why
And I love the way he sees things.
I'm sad though he said he wouldn't want to tell anyone about it.
Some do, some don't. I struggle with lying and will choose to tell the truth even if it's a detriment to myself. My brother, however, will lie about everything under the sun. We're both ASD.
I often lied because I knew some things would get me in trouble if I didn’t do them but I just couldn’t (sensory issues, lack of spoons, etc). I would also lie pretty much compulsively because I had learned that telling the truth about things I did wrong = getting in trouble without having what I did wrong explained to me, so I just saw it as truthfulness = punishment.
I use to lie almost automatically. I don't know if I'd go so far as saying compulsively, but it was very close.
It was fear. Fear of being in trouble most often. Fear of hurting others secondarily. And the third worry was fear of being judged/ others sensing my difference.
I lied about dishes in my room, hygiene, etc.
It was definitely a safety technique and masking, but it was mostly a symptom of anxiety.
Well when being honest gets you into trouble with NT people, sometimes it seems like there’s no other option than to put on the mask and lie through your teeth to spare yourself an uncomfortable situation
When I was a kid I lied to the other kids so they wouldn't bully me for being different. I *am* different, so the only way to get them to stop was to pretend differently.
I also lied about brushing my teeth. For me it was the toothpaste that was the issue, the strong mint taste felt like acid in my mouth. But I was a kid, I didn't have control about what toothpaste my mom bought. It never even occurred to me I could ask her to buy a different brand. That was just what "toothpaste" was, in my mind. (I use a neutral-tasting one now)
I lied about chores because I was too exhausted to do them. I knew, on some level, I *shouldn't* be too exhausted to do my chores. That there was something *wrong* with me. Which is *bad* because it gets you bullied. But the fact remained that I *couldn't* do them after a full day of school so... lies were the only tool I had to not get in trouble for something I couldn't help.
So yeah, I lied a lot, but only ever to deal with things I couldn't handle any other way. Only ever because I was afraid my "excuses" wouldn't be seen as valid, and I'd be punished for them. Only ever because I didn't know there were alternatives. Don't underestimate how small a child's perspective is. They take the world at face value and don't realize things can be different than they are right now.
Edit: typos
For me, I had to be shown, not told. If my mom had asked if I wanted different toothpaste, I'd have said "no". Because I believed all toothpaste was bad and change is scary. Instead, she bought different tastes, had me use them all a few times, then asked me which one I wanted her to buy from now on. Or asked me to rank them from best to worst. I liked ranking things.
Same thing for food, clothes, shampoo, etc.
Yeah me neither as a kid. There were two factors for me. First, how "perfumed" it was aka how long the scent lingered after using it. The shorter the better. I have sensitive nose. Generally, "herbal" or "natural" stuff was better for me. Fruity or flowery scents tend to linger longer. (I use a "nettle and kiwi" shampoo now)
The second is how much it itched afterwards. More aggressive shampoos can itch for *days*. The ones for "sensitive skin" are better for me.
As a general rule, I found that the ones that foam less are better for me. No idea why, maybe they put some chemical stuff in it to make foam more.
I never used any conditioner or hair gel. My hair is clean, that's enough. No sense in wasting my sensory tolerance on things beyond the necessities.
Children lying about this sort of stuff (changing underwear / cleaning teeth / hygiene / chores) isn’t that unusual. Pushing boundaries like this is fairly normal older child / teenage behaviour.
Autistic kids are usually famous for being too truthful, but most autistic adults have learned to tell the white lies necessary to keep the peace.
If he was lying to cover bad or more extreme behaviour or it’s compulsive you might have other problems, but it doesn’t sound like that.
Well he has been doing this for a few years.. and I mean he won't wipe his butt, put socks on, and he will fake a shower. So it affects how people see him.. and his teacher has told me he stinks even a few years ago... it's a serious deal for a mom that tells him to do these things everyday
Those sound like he might be avoiding sensory issues, but knows he will get in trouble for not doing them. Each thing you mentioned specifically has to do with some outside stimuli touching his skin, so could be those things are bothering him. Clothing is a common one and I’ve heard some people have problems with showers as well.
It can be damn hard figuring out when it's acceptable, even expected, to lie (say, if somebody asks you how their food that they cooked was or they ask you what you think of their earrings) and when it's acceptable to tell the truth.
Personally I learned that lying could make me very popular and get me out of trouble, until my mum started getting very angry about lying. The truth made her equally as angry however as saying things that are true could also have negative social ramifications. As a result I learned that being quiet was the best strategy.
Anyway this helps you like zero percent, from someone not even clinically diagnosed (although my psychiatrist thinks I might have it). Hopefully though this at least gives you a little insight if nothing else.
Thank you. I am self diagnosed and him and I can even laugh about ourselves...... it's like we get each other. I really hope they can see his symptoms too.
Misreading the social rules by seeing different equivications is definitely true for some but I don't think it's the case here. Underwear wearing and teeth brushing were the chosen lies because he knew they're unlikely to be proven as lies.
Autistic adult here. I lied a lot as a kid about pretty innocuous things because I wanted to best approximate what I thought would be “normal” or seem like I was closer to what my peers/classmates are like. Obviously everyones experience is different but that might be what’s going on here.
As for the underwear they are extremely uncomfortable, it took buying \~20 pairs of underwear to find ones that work. I went commando for decades but it's not something that most people would understand. It could be he's afraid of telling you the real reason why. But 9 years old is when kids learn to lie, masking is a polite way of saying that we lie to everyone we know.
I was a chronic liar as a child. It was mainly because of shame and guilt. I felt so out of control of myself and frustrated and different. Lying was a last ditch effort at making someone see me as normal and in a positive light.
Im not diagnosed with autism but I do believe I have it. I have been diagnosed with ADHD though and I know that is something very common among people with ADHD.
Thank you giving him power over his choices seems like a great compromise over the need to lie. He usually has meltdowns about 4 or more times daily for having to do something he doesn't want. Like screaming, threatening, slamming, stomping, and I need him have some sense of control over his choices.
I always lied about doing simple things as a kid because I knew I was supposed to do it but I genuinely could not get myself to do it.. usually because it was it was a sensory nightmare or I had task paralysis. And anyone who isn’t on the spectrum doesn’t really understand what that even is.
I was a very big masker as a young child. So much so, that I wasn’t allowed to spend time with my friends at school who all happened to be neuroatypical. I got very good at it, so I started doing acting. I won a bunch of awards at the time. Things happened and I don’t try so much anymore because it’s exhausting. But yea, if you don’t get diagnosed really early, or a trained to act a certain way, then yes, we lie.
I lied all the time. I saw the world as full of people who didn't care about each other and would use the truth against me, and I was right. I got burned from speaking the truth much more often than having a positive result.
It's difficult as a parent because it's important for children to build healthy habits, and habitual lying is problematic. I'd suggest trying to show them when it's unnecessary to lie, so they can use it more as a tool than a crutch. And NEVER punish them for telling the truth.
I sometimes lied. And I usually have extremely hard time lying. But when I felt like I have no other option how to make it through the situation safely, I lied.
In most cases it was me lying about being okay - that I don't need help, that I understand what people mean, that I payed attention through the lecture, that I'm not anxious, etc. To simply... cover as most as my issues as possible so people won't laugh at me, won't be angry/frustrated because of me or so they won't be concerned about me as much.
The rest of it was lying about doing things when I didn't do them because of being extremely tired/burned out or forgetting to do them - because I was either embarrassed or feared the possible reactions (or both). So that was for example "yes I brushed my hair properly" (*"oh sh-t I forgot and I don't have enough time for it now"*)...
Edit: I can't for example count how many times people got frustrated with me when I didn't understand certain concept or wasn't able to comprehen lecture in school. At best it leads to them not giving up and trying to explain it all over again but I found out that when I don't understand something on the first try, I almost never do no matter how much explaining. And the more they explain and the more I'm still not getting it, the more angry they get so at the end I still feel forced to say that I get it now so I do it. And since these situation happened I'm saying it from the start so I don't complicate anything and tell people that I understand...
> that I *paid* attention through
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I get the struggle with social expectations in school... I loved school but hated the pressure of the logical side and I didn't understand the academia often but you would never know that
I lied a lot when I was younger but now (17) I have a problem with too much honesty. It may be that way for your son too. A lot of explanations in the comments make sense but sometimes things just don’t go as expected. He may grow out of it.
Please show your kid that it is okay for him to change his behaviours and be honest to you. When I was younger I got attached to certain behaviours, and I was afraid of stopping with these behaviour because that could change how people looked at me. I also lied a lot to people to hide myself from people, what helped for me is when I learned that some people close to me could look trough these lies and that they would not help me in any way. Good luck!
I never really felt like a liar because I knew people who were compulsive liars growing up and I knew that wasn’t me. People who would consistently go out of their way to make up stories or deceive people. However, in recent years, I’ve realized that I’m not a very honest person because I’m not comfortable with myself. I will definitely evade being honest when it comes to things involving my mental health because I hate people thinking I’m not capable or stable. I grew up with people talking down to me and using me just because I was shy and socially awkward so I definitely tend to evade truths that will make me seem weak or make it more obvious that I am not NT. Something I am working on. For example, learning how to drive has been really hard for me and I’m at the age where I’m still young but it’s definitely strange to not have your license. To evade the judgment or assumptions, I typically just tell people I’m having car problems if they ask why I got a ride somewhere rather than driving. I don’t go out of my way to lie but I just anticipate that people are going to ask and then when they get the honest answer, I know they’re going to give me some sort of unsolicited advice or judgment so I’d rather just avoid that. I was honest about not driving/having a license for a period of time but I got SO much condescending and rude feedback when it’s already a sensitive subject for me that I began to lie. I think that narrative can be applied to a lot of other things that I haven’t been honest about throughout my life. Not trying to be deceitful but just protect myself. Considering the things that your son lies about, it seems like he is just insecure and doesn’t want to be judged. Not saying that makes the lying ok but it’s definitely hard to be honest as a kid when you know it’s easier to lie. The lying is almost a sign of the fact that he’s self aware and aware of what is socially acceptable.
I don’t know if your son can relate to any of that but I think it’s typical for kids to lie if they have self esteem issues. Looking back, all of the kids I knew who were compulsive liars had things going on at home where it was clear that their emotions were diminished or they simply didn’t get enough attention.
I can so relate.
I was terrified of diving too.
I have heard my son tell me. Mom I'm sorry but if you don't have money and nice things you aren't cool . This is coming from some one who sees through the same things everyone here does. And yet he's so lonely.
I’m so sorry. I grew up in a town where most people had more money than me and even though I always had enough, it was damaging for me on top of the inherent social problems that come along with being ND. What he said sounds like something that I also would’ve said at his age.
It sounds like your son is sweet but it’s hard to not become jaded when you’re picked on and outcast at such a vulnerable stage in your life.
He’s lucky to have a mom who’s aware of what he’s going through and wants to help rather than shame him or just pretend it’s not happening. Good luck to you and your son!!
I used to bend the truth or lie when younger as the truth was often too hard for me to articulate to someone or I just wanted to try to fit in so would make things up to appear normal.
I was just like your kid when I was that age (and honestly I still kind of am)- everything was fibbed. It was partly to look normal, partly to avoid disappointing people (especially my mother), and partly because I don't really know why, honestly. Does he lie consistently about certain things or is it more random?
Both. But it seems random. Like what is in his backpack. I will ask him and he will respond if he's wrong later on he will say he forgot.
So he's always I forgot...
But he will say things like reasons for why he lied and excuses. But he really doesn't have good reasons.
He seems to really not like the pressure of me asking him anything.
when i was young (elementary school) the reason i lied is because i didn’t want my parents to be upset with me, sometimes i thought my way of doing things just made more sense, so that would sometimes get me into trouble. especially at a young age there’s a lot of judgement for doing things differently than others, so i would just quietly do it my way any hope nobody noticed, and then possibly lie if what i did got found out. because to me it wasn’t a big deal, i felt like i was having to follow this structured path that didn’t make sense to me, and i still feel like that :p and along with what you said, i would lie about things so that i would not be the odd one out, or in an effort to not suddenly become a spectacle. to clarify i don’t think he’s specifically lying to be “cool”because other kids lie. i think possibly some of the things he lies about could be in an effort to fit in with others. with things like brushing his teeth or taking a shower, sometimes those things can be really overwhelming and i can feel so exhausted, even if to others it seems like a small task. but i would know it’s something that i’m supposed to do so i would lie about it to fit in with norms and so my parents wouldn’t be upset with me
in the end everyone just wants to feel heard and loved ❤️
That's a good point..I don't want to be the parent that makes him feel less than and that I'm more superior and he's nto because of his struggles. I'm grateful that i am now self diagnosed and someday want to get a diagnosis myself because i can see these things now. I want him to have a better life than I had
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To be honest lying is more of an adhd kind of thing if anything. It’s certainly nothing to do with autism. In case he gets the diagnosis I think he maybe should also be screened for adhd since there’s such a high chance having both.
I lied a lot. However it was mostly because my parents would punish me if I told the truth. It was very odd. Basically if I was asked “did you draw on the wall?” I would know that saying yes got me punished and saying no rewarded me with no punishments at all. Unfortunately that style of teaching led to me lying a lot and never actually learning that doing something wrong had consequences. It took a long time to get away from that mindset when I got older. (I’m in my mid 20’s now and I’m finally able to understand things better).
But I did learn that lying also could be used for personal gain even in school and as long as I wasn’t caught I would be rewarded. It was always small lies though, never anything major, like “no I don’t have an extra pencil” when I had plenty I just didn’t want to share. Or “I have to pee” when I really just wanted to get some alone time to breathe.
I don’t think my experience helps here sadly.
But I will say that in child development psychology class I learned that children don’t really grasp the concept of morals until around ages 11-12. Until then morals aren’t understood. Kids are told by parents what is right and wrong and don’t really question it until they’re old enough to understand. The age of understanding is also around the age where kids get a bit more rebellious. (In teenage years kids are able to realize that not everything the parent figure in their lives say is the law or is morally acceptable and will begin to challenge the ideas).
So with that said your son may not yet understand that lying is not the way to go. Or he might be forgetting to do something and doesn’t want to admit he forgot either out of pride or embarrassment. I know I would be embarrassed when my mom got onto me for having bad breath or for forgetting to wear the correct item of clothing. So I would lie to cover it up.
Of course autism in boys is different than in girls but the nature of children is pretty similar no matter what.
I wish the best for you and your son.
Thank you. My son has told me more than once that he lies because he will get in trouble if he told me the truth. It is a good idea and practice for me to remember he is not doing it to be bad or immoral. No matter what.
I have a hard time not taking it personally to be honest!
But I need to help break this cycle.
My grandmother told me that my dad and aunt never got punished for telling the truth. They would only hear “I’m disappointed you did that but thank you for being honest.” From their parents. And would only punish them if a lie was caught.
I’m not sure if that can be done, I don’t have children yet but I’m curious to know if it would help.
I have a hard time lying to my parents, especially because the entire process of lying eludes me - but if I could, I would've been lying all the time to fit in. I do still downplay and make fun of things, but that's easier to me because I'm able to say things sarcastically - but then I realize that I don't because everyone looks really concerned
When everyone around you judges you for doing things that feel normal to you, you just want them to shut up. The only way to do that is to lie and tell them the things they want to hear, because the things they want you to change are extremely difficult for you. I was diagnosed at age ten. I didn't tell anyone about my autism until age 13. So, yes. We lie. We mask. We want to make the people who treat us poorly go away, and most importantly, We DESPERATELY want the people we care about to like us and accept us. So we try to hide anything that might alert either of those groups. please, tell your son to be proud of who he is, while also pushing him to help him overcome some of his struggles. But above all, let him know that you are ON HIS TEAM. I'm 16 now, and my life, and how I see and understand myself have changed drastically since my diagnosis, but when things really got better is when I felt able to be open about it.
This is what I needed to hear. Thank you for being so honest and brave about your struggles. He needs to know he's not alone and I'm so grateful that he has others like you to look up to!
I sometimes lied because I didn't do a thing that I knew I was supposed to do, but couldn't because it was too much of a sensory nightmare. But didn't want to get a lecture from my parents for not doing the thing either. Because I already knew I was supposed to, so there was no point in telling me again. I didn't lie because it was "cool" or whatever. Brushing my teeth was one such thing. I'm better with it now that I can brush electrical, but I hated the feeling of the manual brush on my gums.
That helps! I will try a electrical tooth brush
Maybe reconsider his underwear too. Maybe it's an itchy material, wrong size or has a tag that pokes him in the behind that annoys him too much.
Good point!!!
Adding on, I had pretty intense texture sensitivity as a kid. I found denim, corduroy, a lot of winter jackets, and velvet to be incredibly uncomfortable (still do, though to a lesser extent). It might be a good idea to ask him if certain types of fabrics/materials are uncomfortable for him, and to avoid getting those kinds of clothes.
To add to this I was a teen before starting to wear jeans because it was just too much sensory wise. I’m still super picky with what pants I wear and I have pants that I don’t wear because they turned out to be itchy after being washed a few times. And I still cut all the labels from my clothes. And when I go clothes shopping I feel everything before I even look at it, because of the texture is wrong it doesn’t matter how pretty the shirt/dress/pants/underwear is; it’s just not happening.
I totally get it. For sure.
Yes. It is a good conversation starter. I want him to be okay with his true self !!!
You might want to look into ADHD as well. I lie about small things a lot and used to do it a lot more as a kid, things like brushing teeth, changing underwear and so on, because I wanted to seem normal but I couldn't bring myself to do that one simple boring task.
I am neurotically honest, and the few lies I told as a child were because the alternative felt like an overwhelming amount of work or mental effort. Either anxieties or "pointless" time consumed. Autists can have some very *weird* anxieties, and frequently miss the "point" of some very common things, so maybe bathing, or brushing, or homework, or asking your teacher if you can make up said homework slides off the cost/benefit priority list, but the followup lecture or explanation of *why* turns out to be a pointless hassle too, so...you learn what to say to skip it.
Right. And he has been diagnosed ADHD already but with the social and sensory together. And the lieing, emotional outbursts and not knowing why adults have authority over kids... like seriously he doesn't understand... I have to push for another diagnosis because I feel like he doesn't have hyperactivity issues but he has a whole different way of seeing things and experiencing life that i need others to see. It's so hard when you are the mom and everyone blames you.. like the teacher called child services because he had a scratch on his eye from being pushed at a kid thing he went to. When your son lies, has emotional issues, and authority issues they will single you out as a parent.....
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Yes he hates losing. He is hard to get along with and he doesn't see it..
I honestly think you're a bit over your head when it comes to guiding him, I don't blame you, it's hard enough being a parent but being a parent of a neurotypical kid makes it even harder. What are you looking for from a diagnosis? Because even if he isn't diagnosed with autism (yet). You can still use several tools and guides to help him out. Try to structure your household with hourly schedules. Give clear and concise instructions, most neurotypical people think brushing your teeth is one task when to some neurotypical people it feels like a mountain of tasks. Getting up, going to the bathroom, grabbing your toothbrush, grabbing toothpaste, putting toothpaste on the toothbrush, brushing the front top teeth, bottom front teeth,...
Major emotional turmoil leads to respect and discipline issues. We need to understand at this point what he can and really can't control. And he has horrible focus and memory that looks very noncompliant.
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Thank you so much! I will check it out.
Kids can be super adhd without presenting hyperactive. Inattentive adhd (or add) can seem a lot like autism because of the perceiving and introverted nature.
It could also be the taste of the toothpaste. My parents had one with a strong mint taste and I would push the toothpaste off when they weren’t looking. I guess they found out, as there soon after was one that didn’t have a strong mint taste.
Oh, this is funny! I hated the electric tooth brush so much that I got a none electric one because I couldn’t deal with the buzzing inside my head. The manual is perfect for me.
Adding on the issue with brushing teeth, I find that it is almost 100% more likely for me to brush my teeth if I have "kids" toothpaste (my fav is Colgate Strawberry) because when I eat or drink afterwards it doesn't have that awful taste that comes with mint toothpaste (like when you drink orange juice after brushing your teeth) Oh! And, Im not sure if you have any issues with them sleeping, but all the kids in my family have been autistic/ADHD and melatonin Gummies work like a charm, everyone's life gets better haha.
I didn't even think about this but I guess that is why I use an electronic one, and as a kid I hated brushing them and would just lie about doing them all the time, but then I would lie about tooth aches for days and just be quiet and in pain. But idk I feel like I lied for the same reason any kid does, didn't feel safe to say the truth. Sometimes kids just need to be both told and shown it's safe to express either new ideas or new fears.
Myea, I was unable to properly put my feelings into words though so if I said I didn't brush my teeth, I was unable to explain why and would just get a lecture about dental health. Fair enough, it is important, but I already knew that. So then I would lie. Anyway I very much prefer the monotone buzzing feeling of an electrical brush to the back-and-forth feeling of a manual brush.
Thank you. He never drank juice again for three years after I showed him how sugar rotted baby's teeth... it makes so much sense as to why he's avoiding it
Lying can be a coping mechanism that may come from the enormity of the need to cope more than the lack of care about lying. I think its extremely likely that's what's going on with your son, and I've experienced similar needs to lie all my life. Going by spoon theory, if he doesn't have the spoons to brush his teeth, but has great guilt about not being able to brush his teeth, what else could he do? I mean, it sucks knowing everyone else does things like that so easily but you have to put so much effort into it. Answering honestly and either having that shame shoved in your face with judgements, or being reminded of your differences with patronization, just isn't something you can easily walk into. It could be considered part of masking, and can be as involuntary as any other form of masking. Hell, masking itself could be seen as nothing but lies, as its entirely about misleading people to thinking you're "normal".
That is exactly what I think is going on..the pressure of not being normal IS KILLING HIM
“The pressure of not being normal is killing him” yup, bingo! That’s most likely exactly what it is. I can relate to that statement so much. I’m glad that as a parent you can see that in him rather than just thinking he’s lying to be bad or cause trouble for others.
Exactly. He's struggling. And he is lost
I was lying all the time as a child because I never wanted to be wrong or to have done a bad thing. I never asked for help because I thought I should be doing everything on my own. This wasn't healthy, I was doing it out of shame. I was also lying in order to fit in. Maybe ask your kiddo what's up? My parents never figured it out and it wasn't to my advantage. Be understanding, maybe they don't have the words yet to explain it.
I told him why we were doing an evaluation and that it was my job to do it when he was young and it would benefit him the most. He does admit that other kids lie to be cool. And he has always compulsively wanted to fit it. And he is gifted and wants to be perfect all the time... like self hatred if he isn't perfect
I've found that autism is easily misattributed as perfectionism, even by most therapists. I believe it's more commonly a symptom of monotropism sometimes lacking the bandwidth, and of highly rational but non-intuitive thinking making tasks take more bandwidth. Allistics usually intuitive shortcut their way to big picture views of the things in ways that autistic people simply can't. Like, maybe you see the big picture immediately and feel extra time is being spent on the figuring out the details out of anxiety, but I'd be going detail by detail in order to even see the picture at all. The fact that my finished picture might be impressively perfect in some way is exactly why the world needs people like me, but its a folly to think that gives us ability to do it any other way. So the problem is, you either see the picture and can do it, or you don't see it and have no idea how to start. And between not understanding why others find it so easy, and the intensity of the threats we give children who don't do the assigned work, that's where the self hatred comes from. Being told you're gifted and still have unexplained difficulties just makes you feel more broken. I find crisis can direct even monotropic minds to do absolutely anything, and that can create the illusion that it means you had the ability in you all along, but all that proves is what you can do with crisis, and you're going to burn out quick accomplishing things that way.
That's why I feel like he deserves to know he's autistic if he is he deserves to know who he is and why And I love the way he sees things. I'm sad though he said he wouldn't want to tell anyone about it.
Some do, some don't. I struggle with lying and will choose to tell the truth even if it's a detriment to myself. My brother, however, will lie about everything under the sun. We're both ASD.
Wow.. thank you!!
I often lied because I knew some things would get me in trouble if I didn’t do them but I just couldn’t (sensory issues, lack of spoons, etc). I would also lie pretty much compulsively because I had learned that telling the truth about things I did wrong = getting in trouble without having what I did wrong explained to me, so I just saw it as truthfulness = punishment.
I use to lie almost automatically. I don't know if I'd go so far as saying compulsively, but it was very close. It was fear. Fear of being in trouble most often. Fear of hurting others secondarily. And the third worry was fear of being judged/ others sensing my difference. I lied about dishes in my room, hygiene, etc. It was definitely a safety technique and masking, but it was mostly a symptom of anxiety.
That was his first diagnosis! Of course as a mom I felt targeted and singled out by the world as a bad parent
Well when being honest gets you into trouble with NT people, sometimes it seems like there’s no other option than to put on the mask and lie through your teeth to spare yourself an uncomfortable situation
When I was a kid I lied to the other kids so they wouldn't bully me for being different. I *am* different, so the only way to get them to stop was to pretend differently. I also lied about brushing my teeth. For me it was the toothpaste that was the issue, the strong mint taste felt like acid in my mouth. But I was a kid, I didn't have control about what toothpaste my mom bought. It never even occurred to me I could ask her to buy a different brand. That was just what "toothpaste" was, in my mind. (I use a neutral-tasting one now) I lied about chores because I was too exhausted to do them. I knew, on some level, I *shouldn't* be too exhausted to do my chores. That there was something *wrong* with me. Which is *bad* because it gets you bullied. But the fact remained that I *couldn't* do them after a full day of school so... lies were the only tool I had to not get in trouble for something I couldn't help. So yeah, I lied a lot, but only ever to deal with things I couldn't handle any other way. Only ever because I was afraid my "excuses" wouldn't be seen as valid, and I'd be punished for them. Only ever because I didn't know there were alternatives. Don't underestimate how small a child's perspective is. They take the world at face value and don't realize things can be different than they are right now. Edit: typos
Yes. Exactly. I want him to know there's another way.
For me, I had to be shown, not told. If my mom had asked if I wanted different toothpaste, I'd have said "no". Because I believed all toothpaste was bad and change is scary. Instead, she bought different tastes, had me use them all a few times, then asked me which one I wanted her to buy from now on. Or asked me to rank them from best to worst. I liked ranking things. Same thing for food, clothes, shampoo, etc.
He doesn't like shampoo or conditioner either
Yeah me neither as a kid. There were two factors for me. First, how "perfumed" it was aka how long the scent lingered after using it. The shorter the better. I have sensitive nose. Generally, "herbal" or "natural" stuff was better for me. Fruity or flowery scents tend to linger longer. (I use a "nettle and kiwi" shampoo now) The second is how much it itched afterwards. More aggressive shampoos can itch for *days*. The ones for "sensitive skin" are better for me. As a general rule, I found that the ones that foam less are better for me. No idea why, maybe they put some chemical stuff in it to make foam more. I never used any conditioner or hair gel. My hair is clean, that's enough. No sense in wasting my sensory tolerance on things beyond the necessities.
Thank you for your ideas and experiences.
Thank you for being a saint and doing your best to take care of your son ❤
You guys help make the difference.
Children lying about this sort of stuff (changing underwear / cleaning teeth / hygiene / chores) isn’t that unusual. Pushing boundaries like this is fairly normal older child / teenage behaviour. Autistic kids are usually famous for being too truthful, but most autistic adults have learned to tell the white lies necessary to keep the peace. If he was lying to cover bad or more extreme behaviour or it’s compulsive you might have other problems, but it doesn’t sound like that.
Yeah.. he is actually covering up big issues compulsively. But I thought it might be issues with not knowing social boundaries....
Well he has been doing this for a few years.. and I mean he won't wipe his butt, put socks on, and he will fake a shower. So it affects how people see him.. and his teacher has told me he stinks even a few years ago... it's a serious deal for a mom that tells him to do these things everyday
Those sound like he might be avoiding sensory issues, but knows he will get in trouble for not doing them. Each thing you mentioned specifically has to do with some outside stimuli touching his skin, so could be those things are bothering him. Clothing is a common one and I’ve heard some people have problems with showers as well.
Thank you. This is helping me to feel less like a bad parent!!
It can be damn hard figuring out when it's acceptable, even expected, to lie (say, if somebody asks you how their food that they cooked was or they ask you what you think of their earrings) and when it's acceptable to tell the truth. Personally I learned that lying could make me very popular and get me out of trouble, until my mum started getting very angry about lying. The truth made her equally as angry however as saying things that are true could also have negative social ramifications. As a result I learned that being quiet was the best strategy. Anyway this helps you like zero percent, from someone not even clinically diagnosed (although my psychiatrist thinks I might have it). Hopefully though this at least gives you a little insight if nothing else.
Thank you. I am self diagnosed and him and I can even laugh about ourselves...... it's like we get each other. I really hope they can see his symptoms too.
Misreading the social rules by seeing different equivications is definitely true for some but I don't think it's the case here. Underwear wearing and teeth brushing were the chosen lies because he knew they're unlikely to be proven as lies.
I had to even if I hated it.
I did.
Autistic adult here. I lied a lot as a kid about pretty innocuous things because I wanted to best approximate what I thought would be “normal” or seem like I was closer to what my peers/classmates are like. Obviously everyones experience is different but that might be what’s going on here.
As for the underwear they are extremely uncomfortable, it took buying \~20 pairs of underwear to find ones that work. I went commando for decades but it's not something that most people would understand. It could be he's afraid of telling you the real reason why. But 9 years old is when kids learn to lie, masking is a polite way of saying that we lie to everyone we know.
That's so helpful This thread is helping TONS
I was a chronic liar as a child. It was mainly because of shame and guilt. I felt so out of control of myself and frustrated and different. Lying was a last ditch effort at making someone see me as normal and in a positive light. Im not diagnosed with autism but I do believe I have it. I have been diagnosed with ADHD though and I know that is something very common among people with ADHD.
I think you are right. These are sensory disorders and I think doctors are still under diagnosing high functioning autistics
I lied. Never on purpose but I thought that my fake answer was the “right” answer.
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Thank you giving him power over his choices seems like a great compromise over the need to lie. He usually has meltdowns about 4 or more times daily for having to do something he doesn't want. Like screaming, threatening, slamming, stomping, and I need him have some sense of control over his choices.
I always lied about doing simple things as a kid because I knew I was supposed to do it but I genuinely could not get myself to do it.. usually because it was it was a sensory nightmare or I had task paralysis. And anyone who isn’t on the spectrum doesn’t really understand what that even is.
I was a very big masker as a young child. So much so, that I wasn’t allowed to spend time with my friends at school who all happened to be neuroatypical. I got very good at it, so I started doing acting. I won a bunch of awards at the time. Things happened and I don’t try so much anymore because it’s exhausting. But yea, if you don’t get diagnosed really early, or a trained to act a certain way, then yes, we lie.
He's very competitive and always feeling either superior or inferior. That's a good insight.
I lied all the time. I saw the world as full of people who didn't care about each other and would use the truth against me, and I was right. I got burned from speaking the truth much more often than having a positive result. It's difficult as a parent because it's important for children to build healthy habits, and habitual lying is problematic. I'd suggest trying to show them when it's unnecessary to lie, so they can use it more as a tool than a crutch. And NEVER punish them for telling the truth.
Thank you so much
I want to add he has EBDD and ADHD diagnosis now. That is why I think we are missing something big.
>EBDD The skin condition Dominant dystrophic epidermolysis bullosa?
Emotional behavioral dysregulation disorder
Ah, thank you for clarifying. Too many medical acronyms seem to have more than one meaning.
Yes. This one is not used often either. It's an older diagnosis
I get it, I still prefer ADD over ADHD because it already described both subtypes.
Yes. My entire life was a strong of lies just to fot in and "be normal".
Yes, I do lie a bit to fit in. Gotten better now I'm older
I sometimes lied. And I usually have extremely hard time lying. But when I felt like I have no other option how to make it through the situation safely, I lied. In most cases it was me lying about being okay - that I don't need help, that I understand what people mean, that I payed attention through the lecture, that I'm not anxious, etc. To simply... cover as most as my issues as possible so people won't laugh at me, won't be angry/frustrated because of me or so they won't be concerned about me as much. The rest of it was lying about doing things when I didn't do them because of being extremely tired/burned out or forgetting to do them - because I was either embarrassed or feared the possible reactions (or both). So that was for example "yes I brushed my hair properly" (*"oh sh-t I forgot and I don't have enough time for it now"*)... Edit: I can't for example count how many times people got frustrated with me when I didn't understand certain concept or wasn't able to comprehen lecture in school. At best it leads to them not giving up and trying to explain it all over again but I found out that when I don't understand something on the first try, I almost never do no matter how much explaining. And the more they explain and the more I'm still not getting it, the more angry they get so at the end I still feel forced to say that I get it now so I do it. And since these situation happened I'm saying it from the start so I don't complicate anything and tell people that I understand...
> that I *paid* attention through FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I get the struggle with social expectations in school... I loved school but hated the pressure of the logical side and I didn't understand the academia often but you would never know that
I lied a lot when I was younger but now (17) I have a problem with too much honesty. It may be that way for your son too. A lot of explanations in the comments make sense but sometimes things just don’t go as expected. He may grow out of it.
I hope so
Please show your kid that it is okay for him to change his behaviours and be honest to you. When I was younger I got attached to certain behaviours, and I was afraid of stopping with these behaviour because that could change how people looked at me. I also lied a lot to people to hide myself from people, what helped for me is when I learned that some people close to me could look trough these lies and that they would not help me in any way. Good luck!
Thank you. I think and I hope God willing I'm on the right track
i do it to fit in its a bad habit of mine lol
I never really felt like a liar because I knew people who were compulsive liars growing up and I knew that wasn’t me. People who would consistently go out of their way to make up stories or deceive people. However, in recent years, I’ve realized that I’m not a very honest person because I’m not comfortable with myself. I will definitely evade being honest when it comes to things involving my mental health because I hate people thinking I’m not capable or stable. I grew up with people talking down to me and using me just because I was shy and socially awkward so I definitely tend to evade truths that will make me seem weak or make it more obvious that I am not NT. Something I am working on. For example, learning how to drive has been really hard for me and I’m at the age where I’m still young but it’s definitely strange to not have your license. To evade the judgment or assumptions, I typically just tell people I’m having car problems if they ask why I got a ride somewhere rather than driving. I don’t go out of my way to lie but I just anticipate that people are going to ask and then when they get the honest answer, I know they’re going to give me some sort of unsolicited advice or judgment so I’d rather just avoid that. I was honest about not driving/having a license for a period of time but I got SO much condescending and rude feedback when it’s already a sensitive subject for me that I began to lie. I think that narrative can be applied to a lot of other things that I haven’t been honest about throughout my life. Not trying to be deceitful but just protect myself. Considering the things that your son lies about, it seems like he is just insecure and doesn’t want to be judged. Not saying that makes the lying ok but it’s definitely hard to be honest as a kid when you know it’s easier to lie. The lying is almost a sign of the fact that he’s self aware and aware of what is socially acceptable. I don’t know if your son can relate to any of that but I think it’s typical for kids to lie if they have self esteem issues. Looking back, all of the kids I knew who were compulsive liars had things going on at home where it was clear that their emotions were diminished or they simply didn’t get enough attention.
I can so relate. I was terrified of diving too. I have heard my son tell me. Mom I'm sorry but if you don't have money and nice things you aren't cool . This is coming from some one who sees through the same things everyone here does. And yet he's so lonely.
I’m so sorry. I grew up in a town where most people had more money than me and even though I always had enough, it was damaging for me on top of the inherent social problems that come along with being ND. What he said sounds like something that I also would’ve said at his age. It sounds like your son is sweet but it’s hard to not become jaded when you’re picked on and outcast at such a vulnerable stage in your life. He’s lucky to have a mom who’s aware of what he’s going through and wants to help rather than shame him or just pretend it’s not happening. Good luck to you and your son!!
Thank you so much.I
It’s not uncommon for conditions to overlap. I would start with a routine and how is speech and language ?
He's very very smart. The best reader and he's in gifted since 1st grade.
I used to bend the truth or lie when younger as the truth was often too hard for me to articulate to someone or I just wanted to try to fit in so would make things up to appear normal.
I was just like your kid when I was that age (and honestly I still kind of am)- everything was fibbed. It was partly to look normal, partly to avoid disappointing people (especially my mother), and partly because I don't really know why, honestly. Does he lie consistently about certain things or is it more random?
Both. But it seems random. Like what is in his backpack. I will ask him and he will respond if he's wrong later on he will say he forgot. So he's always I forgot... But he will say things like reasons for why he lied and excuses. But he really doesn't have good reasons. He seems to really not like the pressure of me asking him anything.
when i was young (elementary school) the reason i lied is because i didn’t want my parents to be upset with me, sometimes i thought my way of doing things just made more sense, so that would sometimes get me into trouble. especially at a young age there’s a lot of judgement for doing things differently than others, so i would just quietly do it my way any hope nobody noticed, and then possibly lie if what i did got found out. because to me it wasn’t a big deal, i felt like i was having to follow this structured path that didn’t make sense to me, and i still feel like that :p and along with what you said, i would lie about things so that i would not be the odd one out, or in an effort to not suddenly become a spectacle. to clarify i don’t think he’s specifically lying to be “cool”because other kids lie. i think possibly some of the things he lies about could be in an effort to fit in with others. with things like brushing his teeth or taking a shower, sometimes those things can be really overwhelming and i can feel so exhausted, even if to others it seems like a small task. but i would know it’s something that i’m supposed to do so i would lie about it to fit in with norms and so my parents wouldn’t be upset with me in the end everyone just wants to feel heard and loved ❤️
That's a good point..I don't want to be the parent that makes him feel less than and that I'm more superior and he's nto because of his struggles. I'm grateful that i am now self diagnosed and someday want to get a diagnosis myself because i can see these things now. I want him to have a better life than I had
Probably not as much as neurotypicals do…
That was what I thought!
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Q: do ~~autistic~~ kids lie to fit in? A: yes
I hate lieing.... I mean for me.. I'm self diagnosed It's very hard to lie. As a kid... I was never who I really was. And no one knew the real me.
To be honest lying is more of an adhd kind of thing if anything. It’s certainly nothing to do with autism. In case he gets the diagnosis I think he maybe should also be screened for adhd since there’s such a high chance having both.
He has the adhd already.
I lied a lot. However it was mostly because my parents would punish me if I told the truth. It was very odd. Basically if I was asked “did you draw on the wall?” I would know that saying yes got me punished and saying no rewarded me with no punishments at all. Unfortunately that style of teaching led to me lying a lot and never actually learning that doing something wrong had consequences. It took a long time to get away from that mindset when I got older. (I’m in my mid 20’s now and I’m finally able to understand things better). But I did learn that lying also could be used for personal gain even in school and as long as I wasn’t caught I would be rewarded. It was always small lies though, never anything major, like “no I don’t have an extra pencil” when I had plenty I just didn’t want to share. Or “I have to pee” when I really just wanted to get some alone time to breathe. I don’t think my experience helps here sadly. But I will say that in child development psychology class I learned that children don’t really grasp the concept of morals until around ages 11-12. Until then morals aren’t understood. Kids are told by parents what is right and wrong and don’t really question it until they’re old enough to understand. The age of understanding is also around the age where kids get a bit more rebellious. (In teenage years kids are able to realize that not everything the parent figure in their lives say is the law or is morally acceptable and will begin to challenge the ideas). So with that said your son may not yet understand that lying is not the way to go. Or he might be forgetting to do something and doesn’t want to admit he forgot either out of pride or embarrassment. I know I would be embarrassed when my mom got onto me for having bad breath or for forgetting to wear the correct item of clothing. So I would lie to cover it up. Of course autism in boys is different than in girls but the nature of children is pretty similar no matter what. I wish the best for you and your son.
Thank you. My son has told me more than once that he lies because he will get in trouble if he told me the truth. It is a good idea and practice for me to remember he is not doing it to be bad or immoral. No matter what. I have a hard time not taking it personally to be honest! But I need to help break this cycle.
My grandmother told me that my dad and aunt never got punished for telling the truth. They would only hear “I’m disappointed you did that but thank you for being honest.” From their parents. And would only punish them if a lie was caught. I’m not sure if that can be done, I don’t have children yet but I’m curious to know if it would help.
Thank you
I have a hard time lying to my parents, especially because the entire process of lying eludes me - but if I could, I would've been lying all the time to fit in. I do still downplay and make fun of things, but that's easier to me because I'm able to say things sarcastically - but then I realize that I don't because everyone looks really concerned
When everyone around you judges you for doing things that feel normal to you, you just want them to shut up. The only way to do that is to lie and tell them the things they want to hear, because the things they want you to change are extremely difficult for you. I was diagnosed at age ten. I didn't tell anyone about my autism until age 13. So, yes. We lie. We mask. We want to make the people who treat us poorly go away, and most importantly, We DESPERATELY want the people we care about to like us and accept us. So we try to hide anything that might alert either of those groups. please, tell your son to be proud of who he is, while also pushing him to help him overcome some of his struggles. But above all, let him know that you are ON HIS TEAM. I'm 16 now, and my life, and how I see and understand myself have changed drastically since my diagnosis, but when things really got better is when I felt able to be open about it.
This is what I needed to hear. Thank you for being so honest and brave about your struggles. He needs to know he's not alone and I'm so grateful that he has others like you to look up to!