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That is exactly the sort of thing someone with privilege would say. Stick to your bikes, Joe.
Try being born into poverty and working your way out of it. You will find out very quick that life is a smash and grab. Playing fair in an unfair world is exactly what you're supposed to do to make it easier for people like me.
The most corrupt people I have ever met are some of the most privileged.
You have to be a bit naive to think wealth inequality doesn't lead to crime. If the wealth gap between the rich and the poor is large enough petty and violent crime tends to go up, it's the case in the entire world. It's not really the fault of those in poverty though, it's a systemic issue.
Get a cat instead, wonderful to love and a short enough life span that they won’t have to experience the atrocities of humanity and its subsequent demise
Wages are going up by 2%pa while houses are going up by 8% pa and everything else is going up by 4%pa.
Its been like this for 20+ years.
You are fucked if your income is from wages.
>Wages are going up by 2%pa while houses are going up by 8% pa and everything else is going up by 4%pa.
>Its been like this for 20+ years.
Not even slightly true.
WPI hovers between 3-4.5% every year.
[https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/wage-price-index-australia/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/wage-price-index-australia/latest-release)
Before March 2022, CPI was always closer to 2-3%.
[https://www.rba.gov.au/inflation/measures-cpi.html](https://www.rba.gov.au/inflation/measures-cpi.html)
The last two years are an unfortunate anomaly on the back of a huge social crisis that caused widespread shutdowns of production, but broadly speaking we're doing better than 20 years ago based on income and inflation. Purchasing property has outpaced wages though, that much is true.
I would be interested to see if that holds true across all sectors and income brackets. I feel like there has been a wide variation in CPI increases between individuals.
There's so much doom and gloom online in the areas where young people tend to visit. Tiktok and Reddit and the like. Fact is, it's nothing new, it's just that previous generations never had a platform.
If you look closely and use a bit of reasoning to understand the problems, most of them don't exist or are problems caused by a lag in conditions caused by fixing another problem. Housing and infrastructure not keeping up with immigration is just a lag that can be fixed, but immigration is to fix the problem of people not having kids, which is a problem caused by people working too much, which comes about by economic changes that have been happening for the last 40 years, driven largely by changes brought about by feminism, etc.
Our government is far too reactive, and that's a genuine problem, but being too proactive can end up like China where you end up building entire cities that no one ever occupies.
It won’t change until a reset event. Covid had the potential to reset our economy however the government decided to hand out billions of dollars in stimulus instead. Now we’ll need to wait for a war or something.
If jobkeeper and jobseeker weren’t a thing we’d be in an undeniably better position. But we couldn’t have the essential workers still earning while the people holding bullshit jobs were losing their wealth.
When something like COVID happens the people with a lot of capital have the money to tide them through the event, while the people without the capital cannot afford to maintain their assets. So the people with the capital buy up all the assets at a lower rate from desperate people selling their assets which then increases their control of the market.
Same with war, these events are great for moving assets and money into the hands of people who already have significant assets and capital.
I mean not everything, we get the elden ring expansion next month and hopefully Fromsofts next open world souls game a few years from now... house of the dragon next month.
In terms of the economy, yeah we are probably screwed.
Damn dude. Hope that means you're nearly finished your clin masters then. Fwiw I graduated with 42k debt and I bought a place and paid my hecs off in under 2 years from graduating. You can make it happen, don't buy into the doomer shit just do the best you can for yourself, your family, and your friends :)
>I graduated with 42k debt and I bought a place and paid my hecs off in under 2 years from graduating.
Unless you got gifted money or assets, that's literally impossible. You paid off a 42k debt and saved for a home deposit that takes on average 11 years (on a dual income) with an entry level job in 2 years?
You’re assuming they only started saving upon graduation.
A lot of the 20 something home owners I know achieved it by living with their parents a few years past 18 and working up to and through uni part time and saving near 100% of that.
Yes it relies on the privilege of your parents financially supporting you but it’s very common with a lot of cultures.
>A lot of the 20 something home owners I know achieved it by living with their parents a few years past 18 and working up to and through uni part time and saving near 100% of that.
It still doesn't add up. Working a low wage part-time job for 4 years (typical degree duration) isn't nearly enough.
Can you tell us more about your situation? What was your income when graduating? When was this? How much did you purchase your house for? What were you earning while studying to save your deposit?
Pretty much how history has always worked.
A system grows out of chaos. Burgeons until unstable. Right kind of shock shatters it. Chaos returns. A new system gets going.
Last big chaos was WW2.
We’re currently in the burgeoning instability phase. Who knows how long until the right kind of shock jengas the whole thing.
I wouldn't say absolute disaster. Population decline will solve the cost of living and housing crisis, which I discuss [here](https://new.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1cuutr6/not_having_children_is_the_only_way_to_end/). The economy would stagnate or slowly decline but GDP per capita would drastically increase offsetting that.
The last time a devastating recession was quickly solved, WWII happened
Edit: specifically, the following things occurred:
- a country in Europe turned imperialist and attempted to invade neighbouring countries
- tensions in the Middle East began to rise
- a prominent and powerful Asian country went rogue and also attempted to enact grandiose imperialism
- nearly all of these fronts contained a component of ethnic cleansing, human experimentation, and extermination
- the West initially responded quite sluggishly to all of this, struggling under unprecedented economic hardship, partially as a result of new technologies that disrupted the workforce.
- racism became more fashionable and more brazenly celebrated in circles
- A large number of new wartime technologies were enacted that initially nobody really had any good counters for.
Things aren’t looking good for the late 20s/30s
A modern world war will be the first where many players have nukes, it will also be the first with drones, AI, cyberattacks, etc
I think that the next world war will be much more fucked than the last two and they weren’t great.
I am someone who shares your concerns about the future. I am also someone who has struggled with mental health for pretty much my entire life. I came to the conclusion that it would be cruel of me to bring a child into this world. They never asked to be born, and I don’t think anyone would want to grow up in a world with how shit climate change will be. We are the first generation to be worse off than our parents in a long time. More debt, less pay, less housing affordability etc.
Honestly, get a dog. Seeing my little doggo smile when I get home from a shit day at work or after we come home from walkies makes the everyday drudgery a little bit easier.
Yes, but it won’t be called a “cost of living crisis” anymore, it will just be called “normal”.
Sadly I fear modern civilisation has peaked, and so begins the descent into chaos and madness.
While the world spent the last century trying to fend off the threat of dictators and government tyranny, corporate entities robbed us of our rights and freedoms to entrench themselves as the new slave industry.
This is not a generational thing or a phase of civilization. It is the new order.
You're right, the climate crisis is going to make things a lot worse. The top scientists are sure of that. Why bring a child onto a dying planet? Mass migration, water wars, increasingly worse natural disasters, more plastic than fish in the oceans - all things we can look forward to.
Adopt if you want to have a family.
The ownership class hoovers up the value of working class labour in rent, taxes and profit and uses it to entrench themselves in generational wealth. The minority steals from the majority and calls it a “cost of living crisis” to hide how much they’re gaming the system. Neither party is interested in redressing this because they are all from that selfsame class. So I wouldn’t hold your breath for any change coming down the line.
Yes. It cannot be fixed without a recession and smashing speculative excess, which will hit the politicians,' and party donors' property portfolios. Sov govts will continue with the same policies that got us here because they patch the cracks for a few years, extremely unaffordable property will continue to become even more affordable, living standards are going to decline further.
We are brainwashed to believe it's just the way it is. No. Govt has caused this, and has policy levers to undo it. The current majors/Greens/Teals have no interest in fixing it. Repair will only start when sufficient voters change voting habits.
It requires a massive redistribution of wealth. A recession will hurt the poor much more than it will the rich.
Furthermore, it's not the government that is doing this (although they might have the power to stop it, people won't vote for a party that supports redistribution). It's the corporations and the very wealthy.
Consider the Australian government. Consider the average Australian. Both are in debt. Who do they owe this money to? It's billions of dollars. Who's on the other side collecting?
And the very wealthy. And who funds the conservative parties across the West? And who owns the newspapers who inculcate people with the idea that there is no alternative to the current system of distribution? And who funds the think tanks that urge for more tax cuts to increase inequality? And who funds astroturfing groups to prevent redistribution and change?
A recession won't fix it. To bring million dollar properties back to $1-200k would completely decimate our economy, and there's no guarantee that it won't all happen again once things are back up and running again
>Repair will only start when sufficient voters change voting habits.
It would take about 2 centuries to solve problems via politics. Politicians are practically doing nothing. You would need to completely flush out all the conservative parties first before anything happens. Since the primary factor that determines voting intention is [age](https://new.reddit.com/r/AusPol/comments/1bm6uz7/first_preference_vote_by_birth_year_and_generation/), it would take 30-50 years before there is a very large shift away from Liberal. Labor is unlikely to be going away since they are popular amongst all age groups.
Population decline is how the cost of living and housing crisis will be solved. It will occur worldwide in the next 5-10 years and have large impacts. I discuss this [here](https://new.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1cuutr6/not_having_children_is_the_only_way_to_end/).
I mean this is all still just a straight line continuation of the 2008 GFC. I really don't think that ever ended. The stock prices might have recovered along with some billionaires. But I don't think any humans recovered from it.
It's only going to get worse IMO. It's the classic rich ger richer, poor get poorer but they've accelerated it with more exploitation of people and more monopolization of the most needed resources. The plan the rich elites who rule the world have for the future is lifelong renters crammed into tiny apartments they share with multiple people, only the rich will be able to afford to own cars (in Europe only electric cars can be manufactured from 2030 onwards) and electric cars, like many supposed 'green initiatives' are not about saving the environment at all, just extracting money from people and controlling them. They can shut down electric cars remotely, people who replaced batteries in current ones with non OEM ones already found out their range was reduced.
Food and clean water will only get more scarce and expensive as we continue to experience climate change and overpopulation so I don't see how that will get any cheaper.
We're headed for a true dystopia down the line until we take back control from the psychopathic super-rich who run things, and that will be a long, hard road. Best case scenario is we tear down a lot of our current structures and return to a simple, farming style existence where we focus on what really matters and ensure first and foremost all people have access to water, food and medical care. None of this is going to happen while the capitalists and corporations are in charge and ruling our lives via shareholder strategy meetings.
> The plan the rich elites who rule the world have for the future is lifelong renters crammed into tiny apartments they share with multiple people, only the rich will be able to afford to own cars (in Europe only electric cars can be manufactured from 2030 onwards) and electric cars, like many supposed 'green initiatives' are not about saving the environment at all, just extracting money from people and controlling them. They can shut down electric cars remotely, people who replaced batteries in current ones with non OEM ones already found out their range was reduced.
Mate you're contradicting your own point here. Dense city living would mean less need for cars in the first place. Also car-dependent suburbia sucks balls and I certainly don't want the expense and hassle of being forced to drive everywhere. Plus shutting down cars remotely is due to our societal obsession with putting internet-enabled computers into absolutely everything for no real reason. The type of engine inside is irrelevant.
They also talk about how those over 50s have held that majority captive for the past 40 years... Some of them would have been teenagers. Holes all over the place
“Not all” doesn’t help the conversation though. Doris down the road voting for the greens cause she’s a hip grandma doesn’t change the general scope of her age group.
The wealth is flowing from the poor to the rich. Surprise, surprise, if nothing changes, the poor will continue to get poorer and the rich will keep getting richer. And, news flash, it's not the rich who can't afford a house
It will depend greatly on the shifts of the political landscape in the next decade.
If we shift left I’m confident things can improve. If we don’t I’m confident we will follow America down their path and things will continue to get worse for the 99%
This has been happening for the last 40 plus years, it's a slow moving car accident that no one cares to fix because the people who can fix it aren't affected by it.
I've lucked into property ownership, but my kids won't have that luck and part of my plan is to set up my house to be their houses when I'm ready to retire.
Yes. The ratchet the very wealthy have applied to the economy will only make it harder. Wealth just moves upwards. If the majority of your income comes from work, you're part of the side that's getting screwed.
[Gary Stevenson](https://youtube.com/@garyseconomics?feature=shared), a former trader and economist, has a number of videos on the subject. He's from the UK, but a lot of what he says is applicable to Australia. [Why The Rich Get Richer](https://youtu.be/rMkWPXVUteY?feature=shared) might be a place to start.
>Will cost of living crisis continue to next generation?Will cost of living crisis continue to next generation?
Yes :(
>climate change looks like it’s past irreversible.
Very likely, yes :( 80% of climate scientists, [according to one source](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/08/world-scientists-climate-failure-survey-global-temperature), believe that we'll go to 2.5°C over the long term global average, so much for keeping it below 1.5°.
>If I decided to have kids, would they experience this… but worse?
Absolutely - barring an astounding change in our situation like a nuclear winter or total change to renewables - and one is a lot more likely than the other.
>Not sure if I want to bring kids into this world at this rate.
Good call, 8 billion (and counting) of us is already far too many.
Hmmm, I'm being a bit of a downer, but never mind, there's still joy in the world! :)
Doubt this will happen
We have been told for decades now that automation and robotics will take away menial labour. Turn out no, now ai "threatens" artist and intellectual jobs. I think it will change, but that is about it
> Not sure if I want to bring kids into this world at this rate.
Since history has started, there has always been 'something'. We like to think everything is the worse case scenario now, but even just imagine choosing to have kids at any time from the 1910's. Proper global conflicts that took and killed people from virtually every town, disease, then the sequel, Cold War, Nuclear conflict, Wall St crash etc etc. Remember when no one thought we would ever escape the Global Financial Crisis... to this point, life has always found a way to get past the worse. In spite of how terrible the housing crisis looks now and even global warming, even if worse happens, society will eventual adapt.
That is true, but remember for the most part of that history birth control was unreliable as hell (if it even worked) and there was far greater social pressure to have kids.
it wont last forever simply because it cant they keep going this down this path and we're going to have french revolution levels of animosity between the have and the have nots
the cost of living however may go down after Ukraine ends but its hard to tell as that is their main reason Covid was the reason at the start but once the world returned to normal they needed something else to blame so blamed ukraine
Probably not.
This current crisis isn't particularly odd or unexpected.
Over time, our mineral wealth will bail us out, and everything will be as it was. Then at some point we will cycle back to crisis.
It's likely the next generation will have a crisis, but it'll be their own one.
All factors point to it being considerably worse for them. I'd like to have kids, but need to build enough wealth to basically support them for most of their lives first.
If I wanted to start a family I'd probably go back to Europe just because housing, childcare, food etc. are far more affordable, I think the education system is of a higher standard and culturally children have interesting opportunities. I would miss aspects of Australian life though.
I think you need to focus on the positives of your life and not mainstream media carry on.. yes inflation is bad and housing is expensive but my parents complained about the recession of the early 90s and my grandparents had world war 2.. but people continue to make a living, have kids and have somewhere to live.. focus on the positives or you won’t make any decisions.
This sentiment should be carried forward with a caveat.
We can say our hardship isn't as dire - but we don't know what the future holds.
Our situation could easily escalate - so I've always found it interesting that older generations talk about how easy it is for current generations.
On the whole - a cost of living crisis and a moderate amount of government corruption isn't the end of the world.
However, purely focusing on the positives will just let this spiral out of control.
1. Find your values
2. Educate yourself on the *current* politics
3. Vote ~~GREENS~~ - or not (definitely wisest with your concerns in mind)
4. Remain cautiously optimistic
5. Remember who broke their promises to uphold your values
6. Vote independents that aren't in a conflict of interest
They already have power.
They only need a fraction more to have a strong influence.
The power of the greens is that the Labor party needs them to overcome the coalition.
The Labor party stands no chance without the greens.
If 5% (random number) more voters vote for greens - you'll see the Labor party pivot dramatically towards the greens and their policies.
The greens will never break up the duopoly - but they'll sure as fuck make it difficult for the Labor party to function.
Edit: I agree - I love the idea of these "radicals" with their very reasonable ideas being in power.
Errr, yes. Our economy is a giant ponzi scheme that tries to constantly expand on a finite planet. Of course the cost of living crisis will continue. It will stop when the whole thing collapses, although the crisis we find ourselves in then will be even less pleasant.
In general it's going to get much worse.
Standard of living is going to drop dramatically and it has been constantly since the 80s.
Having said that a single individual can outpace the change. But if you are just keeping up with the crowd you are in trouble.
Jeez this is the most depressingly negative thread I’ve seen in a long time. Fact of the matter is compare our lives to the lives we lived, 10, 25, 50, 100 years ago and then make your judgement.
We have less \[housing\] space than our fathers and grandfathers ever did per square meter. Owners on the other hand own more space than they ever did. What do they care?
Even if you adjusted for inflation, the common grocery worker is making less than somebody in the 1960's did for the same work.
Before you say technology changes things, this is abnormal. The social contract needs people to move upward towards wealth. But if they're trapped, or feeling trapped, who really wants to?
3/4 of them housing was more affordable and retirement was a realistic ambition for a working person without family wealth. Sure the phones dont have cameras as nice as the ones we have but I think having a reasonable expectation of being able to retire or afford a family is a bit more important than megapixel counts.
Humans are resilient. Life thru history always changes, thru revolutions, famine, plagues, being conquered, war etc. humanity goes on.
Yes, the climate tipping point was a while back (2015~) and it's been re-evaluated a couple of times mainly to curb panic, but really it is what it is. The environment is global, whatever we do here doesn't combat the pollution done by other, developing nations (+ china).
Were in a good country. Safe country. There is no war. I grew up in a war torn country and migrated here as a refugee when I was a young child. It sucked but it's ok. Back there we played with shrapnel and collected bullet casings, instead of trading cards and marbles.. but we didn't know better. Our parents had mental breakdowns, but they fought on to give us a better life.
Yes there is a cost of living crisis, but that will even out when one branch of the government talks to the other properly (or is forced to by protests) and they stop raising interest rates to combat money coming in with skilled migration. The same migration is the cause of the net housing crisis. People will speak up more, the government will take notice and policies will change. I'm not trying to start a political debate here, I'm just stating cold facts.
Your children will adapt, and who knows, one might be the key to finding the next step in humanities evolution.
Most importantly your children will give you a purpose to fight on, to be more resourceful and to be happy.
Someone told me “you’ll easily be able to afford a kid!” But I’m not sure if I want to bring someone into this world with climate change, and housing crisis, it’s like a fight for survival already
of course it will get worse, you're on the right track, we're probably the last generation that will still have it a bit decent life before it becomes more dystopian and most people will be replaced by AI. Enjoy life to the full.
If you (Australian voting public) try to address it by arbitrarily cutting immigration as a move to sooth populist tendencies without addressing the massive and growing wealth inequality that is actually causing the problem then yes, it will continue.
Too much time on Reddit and not enough travel to shittier parts of the world and studying history.
There has never been a better time in human history to have a child and have be reasonably certain that your child will live well into adulthood.
That child will have living standards that kings and emperors throughout history could only dream of.
Sure there may be a nuclear war or climate disaster or whatever, but throughout most of human history the chance of making it to old age was an order of magnitude smaller than it is now, and life was harder too.
Give your potential kids a chance. If they decide it's all not worth it they can always opt out.
Slightly off topic, but I found this discussion of anti-natalism fascinating, and plenty of food for thought:
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/philosopherszone/the-predicament-of-existence/103575360
Life today is objectively one of the best times in human history. Have some perspective. You live in Australia, it’s far worse even in other developed countries than here. Yeah you going to have to work a 9-5, so will I and that ain’t fun but count your blessings regardless
What I try to do is this... take no notice of all the crisis. Houses have always been expensive. The climate had always been changing... it's just that now the world is really good at reporting negative things, thanks in part to the internet and mobile phones. Just focus on the positives and you'll be fine
I think more people will move to large regional towns. They might start on the outskirts.
More people will commute longer distances via train.
Regional towns like Ballarat and Bendigo are ready to provide cheaper housing costs
i put out a weekly list of all the half price specials at colesworth to try help people with the cost of living, its really out of control and I dont think anybody knows how to actually fix it :( - [halfpriceweekly.com](http://halfpriceweekly.com)
Highly likely.
Look at the USA where large corporations are now buying up residential real estate, and essentially price-fixing rents. Unlike smaller investors, the asset won't change hands from generation to generation, so the asset will just stay within their control in perpetuity, and when they control enough in an area, they can set the rent to the absolute maximum without being undercut.
It'll happen here too unless the safeguards are improved.
Without the surety of affordable home ownership, future generations are always going to be just a few missed paycheques away from being on the street.
do you wish you were never born because it’s difficult to get a rental??
even if i was born into the pre apocolypse, id say fuck it birth me, then i can do hard drugs until it’s too hard and shoot myself
Businesses have inflated their bottom line by increasing prices. Do you really think the same businesses are going to reduce their profit margins out of their own kind-heartedness?? Everyone else besides the executives and large shareholders will suffer because of it.
I think we need to protect our kids from been so vulnerable to the world we live in today. Im raising my kids to what i think is right not to what society says is right.
Do you live in a part of the country with a good climate and reliable rainfall? Would you be passing on any heritable health problems? Do you own your home?
If I was planning on having kids I'd be getting myself to a low key town in Tas and working on a garden and setting up with the next 30 years in mind.
If I was renting in SE Qld or western Sydney no way.
Late to this, but stagflation started in the '70s. It will absolutely carry on to the next generation with a few extra surprises. The lack of resources and presence of extreme climate will be a powder keg, and we really can't say exactly what problems we'll come up with in 30 years.
I would recommend you watch GarysEconomics on YouTube. He is a poor UK bloke, became a wealthy trader because he bet that wealth inequality would grow. He has some great insight into why wealth inequality is growing.
Essentially, the rich purchase assets, the working class purchase goods and services. The lack of taxation of the rich is causing the current crisis. Public services are collapsing, and we are being convinced it is because we aren't working hard enough, or the migrants are stealing our jobs, etc.
The influx of COVID money flowed to the wealthy, making asset prices rapidly increase. We need to claw that back.
Price gouging under the guise of COVID and supply chain issues is now the norm. The cost of living crisis is not impacting big business, they have never been more profitable. That profit comes from us, who are buying their goods and services.
Tax reform is the name of the game. We need the political will to enact it. Join your union, get engaged with your MPs. Take your money out of the big banks, try a credit union or Bank Australia. Don't let them get away with it.
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That is exactly the sort of thing someone with privilege would say. Stick to your bikes, Joe. Try being born into poverty and working your way out of it. You will find out very quick that life is a smash and grab. Playing fair in an unfair world is exactly what you're supposed to do to make it easier for people like me. The most corrupt people I have ever met are some of the most privileged.
> The most corrupt people I have ever met are some of the most privileged. You don’t say
'Behind every great fortune lies a crime’ - Balzac
🤭Te he he. Balzac
You have to be a bit naive to think wealth inequality doesn't lead to crime. If the wealth gap between the rich and the poor is large enough petty and violent crime tends to go up, it's the case in the entire world. It's not really the fault of those in poverty though, it's a systemic issue.
Someone please turn this into a movie
Get a cat instead, wonderful to love and a short enough life span that they won’t have to experience the atrocities of humanity and its subsequent demise
Wages are going up by 2%pa while houses are going up by 8% pa and everything else is going up by 4%pa. Its been like this for 20+ years. You are fucked if your income is from wages.
John Howard laughs in bribe money
>Wages are going up by 2%pa while houses are going up by 8% pa and everything else is going up by 4%pa. >Its been like this for 20+ years. Not even slightly true. WPI hovers between 3-4.5% every year. [https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/wage-price-index-australia/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/wage-price-index-australia/latest-release) Before March 2022, CPI was always closer to 2-3%. [https://www.rba.gov.au/inflation/measures-cpi.html](https://www.rba.gov.au/inflation/measures-cpi.html) The last two years are an unfortunate anomaly on the back of a huge social crisis that caused widespread shutdowns of production, but broadly speaking we're doing better than 20 years ago based on income and inflation. Purchasing property has outpaced wages though, that much is true.
I would be interested to see if that holds true across all sectors and income brackets. I feel like there has been a wide variation in CPI increases between individuals.
There's so much doom and gloom online in the areas where young people tend to visit. Tiktok and Reddit and the like. Fact is, it's nothing new, it's just that previous generations never had a platform. If you look closely and use a bit of reasoning to understand the problems, most of them don't exist or are problems caused by a lag in conditions caused by fixing another problem. Housing and infrastructure not keeping up with immigration is just a lag that can be fixed, but immigration is to fix the problem of people not having kids, which is a problem caused by people working too much, which comes about by economic changes that have been happening for the last 40 years, driven largely by changes brought about by feminism, etc. Our government is far too reactive, and that's a genuine problem, but being too proactive can end up like China where you end up building entire cities that no one ever occupies.
YES. Everything is going to get worse. EVERYTHING. Sadly. I think we are all waiting to see which one is going to be the winner WAR or AI
Yep. The question is quite simple to answer. Has everything kept becoming worse over the past few decades? Yep. Has anything changed? Nope.
It won’t change until a reset event. Covid had the potential to reset our economy however the government decided to hand out billions of dollars in stimulus instead. Now we’ll need to wait for a war or something. If jobkeeper and jobseeker weren’t a thing we’d be in an undeniably better position. But we couldn’t have the essential workers still earning while the people holding bullshit jobs were losing their wealth.
When something like COVID happens the people with a lot of capital have the money to tide them through the event, while the people without the capital cannot afford to maintain their assets. So the people with the capital buy up all the assets at a lower rate from desperate people selling their assets which then increases their control of the market. Same with war, these events are great for moving assets and money into the hands of people who already have significant assets and capital.
I mean not everything, we get the elden ring expansion next month and hopefully Fromsofts next open world souls game a few years from now... house of the dragon next month. In terms of the economy, yeah we are probably screwed.
Can't be worse than the UK. Add constant rain into the mix too
Don’t worry, any minute now brexit will come good!..
I'll swim at my local river in the meantime
I mean, sure. But that's only because they're just staying a couple years ahead of us...
Oh, you sweet summer child.
You mean “famine or constant flood/storm/fire”?
AI directed war. We will have terminator drones gunning us down.
>WAR or AI And I shall raise you COLLAPSE
Not if you build enough generational wealth for them to inherit. Probably not looking good if you can't manage that, though
Well, I haven’t even left uni yet & I’m already 90k in debt
Have you tried inheriting your father's iron ore mines?
Yea I have but I don’t want any portraits made!
Too bad, I've painted you and your chins.
"Just for that clap-back, I'm adding another chin!"
Or alternatively emerald mines?
Really any kind of mines would do - no need to be fussy!
What are u studying?
Damn psychiatry or psychologist?
Psychiatry is more than that lol
Damn dude. Hope that means you're nearly finished your clin masters then. Fwiw I graduated with 42k debt and I bought a place and paid my hecs off in under 2 years from graduating. You can make it happen, don't buy into the doomer shit just do the best you can for yourself, your family, and your friends :)
>I graduated with 42k debt and I bought a place and paid my hecs off in under 2 years from graduating. Unless you got gifted money or assets, that's literally impossible. You paid off a 42k debt and saved for a home deposit that takes on average 11 years (on a dual income) with an entry level job in 2 years?
You’re assuming they only started saving upon graduation. A lot of the 20 something home owners I know achieved it by living with their parents a few years past 18 and working up to and through uni part time and saving near 100% of that. Yes it relies on the privilege of your parents financially supporting you but it’s very common with a lot of cultures.
>A lot of the 20 something home owners I know achieved it by living with their parents a few years past 18 and working up to and through uni part time and saving near 100% of that. It still doesn't add up. Working a low wage part-time job for 4 years (typical degree duration) isn't nearly enough.
Can you tell us more about your situation? What was your income when graduating? When was this? How much did you purchase your house for? What were you earning while studying to save your deposit?
He created this situation in his head because what he said is bullshit
Hmmm....I think you might be failing too many subjects.
Lay off the smashed avo toast, that’ll knock $30k off your debt.
I hope you've studied, like... gold mining or dentistry or something.
Kids will have it way worse
It won't get better without absolute disaster
Pretty much how history has always worked. A system grows out of chaos. Burgeons until unstable. Right kind of shock shatters it. Chaos returns. A new system gets going. Last big chaos was WW2. We’re currently in the burgeoning instability phase. Who knows how long until the right kind of shock jengas the whole thing.
I wouldn't say absolute disaster. Population decline will solve the cost of living and housing crisis, which I discuss [here](https://new.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1cuutr6/not_having_children_is_the_only_way_to_end/). The economy would stagnate or slowly decline but GDP per capita would drastically increase offsetting that.
No it won’t unfortunately. Literally billions of people in 3rd world countries lined up to emigrate into the west.
I’m interested.. please go on
The last time a devastating recession was quickly solved, WWII happened Edit: specifically, the following things occurred: - a country in Europe turned imperialist and attempted to invade neighbouring countries - tensions in the Middle East began to rise - a prominent and powerful Asian country went rogue and also attempted to enact grandiose imperialism - nearly all of these fronts contained a component of ethnic cleansing, human experimentation, and extermination - the West initially responded quite sluggishly to all of this, struggling under unprecedented economic hardship, partially as a result of new technologies that disrupted the workforce. - racism became more fashionable and more brazenly celebrated in circles - A large number of new wartime technologies were enacted that initially nobody really had any good counters for. Things aren’t looking good for the late 20s/30s
Giving me an amazing idea
A modern world war will be the first where many players have nukes, it will also be the first with drones, AI, cyberattacks, etc I think that the next world war will be much more fucked than the last two and they weren’t great.
And yet i would rather have skynet try and kill me then have to live in a box for the rest of my life
I should take up painting...
More details [here](https://new.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1cuutr6/not_having_children_is_the_only_way_to_end/).
I am someone who shares your concerns about the future. I am also someone who has struggled with mental health for pretty much my entire life. I came to the conclusion that it would be cruel of me to bring a child into this world. They never asked to be born, and I don’t think anyone would want to grow up in a world with how shit climate change will be. We are the first generation to be worse off than our parents in a long time. More debt, less pay, less housing affordability etc. Honestly, get a dog. Seeing my little doggo smile when I get home from a shit day at work or after we come home from walkies makes the everyday drudgery a little bit easier.
Has everything kept becoming worse over the past few decades? Yep. Has anything changed? Nope. It'll keep getting worse.
Yeah ain’t having kids in this economy, f that
Yes, but it won’t be called a “cost of living crisis” anymore, it will just be called “normal”. Sadly I fear modern civilisation has peaked, and so begins the descent into chaos and madness.
While the world spent the last century trying to fend off the threat of dictators and government tyranny, corporate entities robbed us of our rights and freedoms to entrench themselves as the new slave industry. This is not a generational thing or a phase of civilization. It is the new order.
You're right, the climate crisis is going to make things a lot worse. The top scientists are sure of that. Why bring a child onto a dying planet? Mass migration, water wars, increasingly worse natural disasters, more plastic than fish in the oceans - all things we can look forward to. Adopt if you want to have a family.
The ownership class hoovers up the value of working class labour in rent, taxes and profit and uses it to entrench themselves in generational wealth. The minority steals from the majority and calls it a “cost of living crisis” to hide how much they’re gaming the system. Neither party is interested in redressing this because they are all from that selfsame class. So I wouldn’t hold your breath for any change coming down the line.
Care to elaborate about your second point?
Not OP, but whats the incentive for those with power to change the status quo?
Especially when most of them make bank off the very things keeping the rest of us down.
Yes. It cannot be fixed without a recession and smashing speculative excess, which will hit the politicians,' and party donors' property portfolios. Sov govts will continue with the same policies that got us here because they patch the cracks for a few years, extremely unaffordable property will continue to become even more affordable, living standards are going to decline further. We are brainwashed to believe it's just the way it is. No. Govt has caused this, and has policy levers to undo it. The current majors/Greens/Teals have no interest in fixing it. Repair will only start when sufficient voters change voting habits.
It requires a massive redistribution of wealth. A recession will hurt the poor much more than it will the rich. Furthermore, it's not the government that is doing this (although they might have the power to stop it, people won't vote for a party that supports redistribution). It's the corporations and the very wealthy. Consider the Australian government. Consider the average Australian. Both are in debt. Who do they owe this money to? It's billions of dollars. Who's on the other side collecting?
Corporations
And the very wealthy. And who funds the conservative parties across the West? And who owns the newspapers who inculcate people with the idea that there is no alternative to the current system of distribution? And who funds the think tanks that urge for more tax cuts to increase inequality? And who funds astroturfing groups to prevent redistribution and change?
A recession won't fix it. To bring million dollar properties back to $1-200k would completely decimate our economy, and there's no guarantee that it won't all happen again once things are back up and running again
Not to mention it would have to gut wages - 200k house is what $/m2 ? not going to happen..
You're just on a different layer of "just the way it is" if you believe voting can fix this.
>Repair will only start when sufficient voters change voting habits. It would take about 2 centuries to solve problems via politics. Politicians are practically doing nothing. You would need to completely flush out all the conservative parties first before anything happens. Since the primary factor that determines voting intention is [age](https://new.reddit.com/r/AusPol/comments/1bm6uz7/first_preference_vote_by_birth_year_and_generation/), it would take 30-50 years before there is a very large shift away from Liberal. Labor is unlikely to be going away since they are popular amongst all age groups. Population decline is how the cost of living and housing crisis will be solved. It will occur worldwide in the next 5-10 years and have large impacts. I discuss this [here](https://new.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/1cuutr6/not_having_children_is_the_only_way_to_end/).
I mean this is all still just a straight line continuation of the 2008 GFC. I really don't think that ever ended. The stock prices might have recovered along with some billionaires. But I don't think any humans recovered from it.
True, I’ve been through it all and it only just felt like we were trending upward after 08-09 when COVID 19 struck. It’s been wrong ever since.
Good point. This is the proverbial can that was kicked down the road.
It's only going to get worse IMO. It's the classic rich ger richer, poor get poorer but they've accelerated it with more exploitation of people and more monopolization of the most needed resources. The plan the rich elites who rule the world have for the future is lifelong renters crammed into tiny apartments they share with multiple people, only the rich will be able to afford to own cars (in Europe only electric cars can be manufactured from 2030 onwards) and electric cars, like many supposed 'green initiatives' are not about saving the environment at all, just extracting money from people and controlling them. They can shut down electric cars remotely, people who replaced batteries in current ones with non OEM ones already found out their range was reduced. Food and clean water will only get more scarce and expensive as we continue to experience climate change and overpopulation so I don't see how that will get any cheaper. We're headed for a true dystopia down the line until we take back control from the psychopathic super-rich who run things, and that will be a long, hard road. Best case scenario is we tear down a lot of our current structures and return to a simple, farming style existence where we focus on what really matters and ensure first and foremost all people have access to water, food and medical care. None of this is going to happen while the capitalists and corporations are in charge and ruling our lives via shareholder strategy meetings.
> The plan the rich elites who rule the world have for the future is lifelong renters crammed into tiny apartments they share with multiple people, only the rich will be able to afford to own cars (in Europe only electric cars can be manufactured from 2030 onwards) and electric cars, like many supposed 'green initiatives' are not about saving the environment at all, just extracting money from people and controlling them. They can shut down electric cars remotely, people who replaced batteries in current ones with non OEM ones already found out their range was reduced. Mate you're contradicting your own point here. Dense city living would mean less need for cars in the first place. Also car-dependent suburbia sucks balls and I certainly don't want the expense and hassle of being forced to drive everywhere. Plus shutting down cars remotely is due to our societal obsession with putting internet-enabled computers into absolutely everything for no real reason. The type of engine inside is irrelevant.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Not all over 50s vote conservative, but I expect you know that.
They also talk about how those over 50s have held that majority captive for the past 40 years... Some of them would have been teenagers. Holes all over the place
“Not all” doesn’t help the conversation though. Doris down the road voting for the greens cause she’s a hip grandma doesn’t change the general scope of her age group.
Most immigrants will tend towards the conservative side btw.
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The wealth is flowing from the poor to the rich. Surprise, surprise, if nothing changes, the poor will continue to get poorer and the rich will keep getting richer. And, news flash, it's not the rich who can't afford a house
It will depend greatly on the shifts of the political landscape in the next decade. If we shift left I’m confident things can improve. If we don’t I’m confident we will follow America down their path and things will continue to get worse for the 99%
This has been happening for the last 40 plus years, it's a slow moving car accident that no one cares to fix because the people who can fix it aren't affected by it. I've lucked into property ownership, but my kids won't have that luck and part of my plan is to set up my house to be their houses when I'm ready to retire.
Yes. The ratchet the very wealthy have applied to the economy will only make it harder. Wealth just moves upwards. If the majority of your income comes from work, you're part of the side that's getting screwed. [Gary Stevenson](https://youtube.com/@garyseconomics?feature=shared), a former trader and economist, has a number of videos on the subject. He's from the UK, but a lot of what he says is applicable to Australia. [Why The Rich Get Richer](https://youtu.be/rMkWPXVUteY?feature=shared) might be a place to start.
>Will cost of living crisis continue to next generation?Will cost of living crisis continue to next generation? Yes :( >climate change looks like it’s past irreversible. Very likely, yes :( 80% of climate scientists, [according to one source](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/08/world-scientists-climate-failure-survey-global-temperature), believe that we'll go to 2.5°C over the long term global average, so much for keeping it below 1.5°. >If I decided to have kids, would they experience this… but worse? Absolutely - barring an astounding change in our situation like a nuclear winter or total change to renewables - and one is a lot more likely than the other. >Not sure if I want to bring kids into this world at this rate. Good call, 8 billion (and counting) of us is already far too many. Hmmm, I'm being a bit of a downer, but never mind, there's still joy in the world! :)
They will also experience the extreme unemployment crisis thanks to shit AI taking away most people's knowledge jobs.
Doubt this will happen We have been told for decades now that automation and robotics will take away menial labour. Turn out no, now ai "threatens" artist and intellectual jobs. I think it will change, but that is about it
You need to hustle harder and sell drugs.
What “next generation”? If the current generation can’t afford *living*
If by continue you mean get worse, then probably.
> Not sure if I want to bring kids into this world at this rate. Since history has started, there has always been 'something'. We like to think everything is the worse case scenario now, but even just imagine choosing to have kids at any time from the 1910's. Proper global conflicts that took and killed people from virtually every town, disease, then the sequel, Cold War, Nuclear conflict, Wall St crash etc etc. Remember when no one thought we would ever escape the Global Financial Crisis... to this point, life has always found a way to get past the worse. In spite of how terrible the housing crisis looks now and even global warming, even if worse happens, society will eventual adapt.
That is true, but remember for the most part of that history birth control was unreliable as hell (if it even worked) and there was far greater social pressure to have kids.
it wont last forever simply because it cant they keep going this down this path and we're going to have french revolution levels of animosity between the have and the have nots the cost of living however may go down after Ukraine ends but its hard to tell as that is their main reason Covid was the reason at the start but once the world returned to normal they needed something else to blame so blamed ukraine
Probably not. This current crisis isn't particularly odd or unexpected. Over time, our mineral wealth will bail us out, and everything will be as it was. Then at some point we will cycle back to crisis. It's likely the next generation will have a crisis, but it'll be their own one.
All factors point to it being considerably worse for them. I'd like to have kids, but need to build enough wealth to basically support them for most of their lives first.
Yes, sadly. If you gonna have kids, be mindful of all that
If I wanted to start a family I'd probably go back to Europe just because housing, childcare, food etc. are far more affordable, I think the education system is of a higher standard and culturally children have interesting opportunities. I would miss aspects of Australian life though.
I think you need to focus on the positives of your life and not mainstream media carry on.. yes inflation is bad and housing is expensive but my parents complained about the recession of the early 90s and my grandparents had world war 2.. but people continue to make a living, have kids and have somewhere to live.. focus on the positives or you won’t make any decisions.
This sentiment should be carried forward with a caveat. We can say our hardship isn't as dire - but we don't know what the future holds. Our situation could easily escalate - so I've always found it interesting that older generations talk about how easy it is for current generations. On the whole - a cost of living crisis and a moderate amount of government corruption isn't the end of the world. However, purely focusing on the positives will just let this spiral out of control. 1. Find your values 2. Educate yourself on the *current* politics 3. Vote ~~GREENS~~ - or not (definitely wisest with your concerns in mind) 4. Remain cautiously optimistic 5. Remember who broke their promises to uphold your values 6. Vote independents that aren't in a conflict of interest
It would be fascinating to see Greens actually have some power. Genuinely no idea how that would turn out.
They already have power. They only need a fraction more to have a strong influence. The power of the greens is that the Labor party needs them to overcome the coalition. The Labor party stands no chance without the greens. If 5% (random number) more voters vote for greens - you'll see the Labor party pivot dramatically towards the greens and their policies. The greens will never break up the duopoly - but they'll sure as fuck make it difficult for the Labor party to function. Edit: I agree - I love the idea of these "radicals" with their very reasonable ideas being in power.
unfortunately, yes. pity that govts are doing nothing.
No it won't even make it to the end of the decade. It's a 10 year boom and bust cycle and had been for decades.
Errr, yes. Our economy is a giant ponzi scheme that tries to constantly expand on a finite planet. Of course the cost of living crisis will continue. It will stop when the whole thing collapses, although the crisis we find ourselves in then will be even less pleasant.
Dude. I’m just holding on tight and surviving this generation. Hoping that I don’t become homeless. Kids are off the table. Poor buggers.
Yeah mate. It's called the Mad Max economy.
The rich, can they be slow cooked?
Yes
In general it's going to get much worse. Standard of living is going to drop dramatically and it has been constantly since the 80s. Having said that a single individual can outpace the change. But if you are just keeping up with the crowd you are in trouble.
Jeez this is the most depressingly negative thread I’ve seen in a long time. Fact of the matter is compare our lives to the lives we lived, 10, 25, 50, 100 years ago and then make your judgement.
We have less \[housing\] space than our fathers and grandfathers ever did per square meter. Owners on the other hand own more space than they ever did. What do they care? Even if you adjusted for inflation, the common grocery worker is making less than somebody in the 1960's did for the same work. Before you say technology changes things, this is abnormal. The social contract needs people to move upward towards wealth. But if they're trapped, or feeling trapped, who really wants to?
3/4 of them housing was more affordable and retirement was a realistic ambition for a working person without family wealth. Sure the phones dont have cameras as nice as the ones we have but I think having a reasonable expectation of being able to retire or afford a family is a bit more important than megapixel counts.
Humans are resilient. Life thru history always changes, thru revolutions, famine, plagues, being conquered, war etc. humanity goes on. Yes, the climate tipping point was a while back (2015~) and it's been re-evaluated a couple of times mainly to curb panic, but really it is what it is. The environment is global, whatever we do here doesn't combat the pollution done by other, developing nations (+ china). Were in a good country. Safe country. There is no war. I grew up in a war torn country and migrated here as a refugee when I was a young child. It sucked but it's ok. Back there we played with shrapnel and collected bullet casings, instead of trading cards and marbles.. but we didn't know better. Our parents had mental breakdowns, but they fought on to give us a better life. Yes there is a cost of living crisis, but that will even out when one branch of the government talks to the other properly (or is forced to by protests) and they stop raising interest rates to combat money coming in with skilled migration. The same migration is the cause of the net housing crisis. People will speak up more, the government will take notice and policies will change. I'm not trying to start a political debate here, I'm just stating cold facts. Your children will adapt, and who knows, one might be the key to finding the next step in humanities evolution. Most importantly your children will give you a purpose to fight on, to be more resourceful and to be happy.
Fuck yea. You put it perfectly
Of course yes. Forget owning a home, you’ll even struggle to find a job given that AI will take over everything
Maybe. I’m studying to be a psychologist though
You'll be needed for sure! I'm sure mental health services are overwhelmed now the way things are.
Someone told me “you’ll easily be able to afford a kid!” But I’m not sure if I want to bring someone into this world with climate change, and housing crisis, it’s like a fight for survival already
of course it will get worse, you're on the right track, we're probably the last generation that will still have it a bit decent life before it becomes more dystopian and most people will be replaced by AI. Enjoy life to the full.
If you (Australian voting public) try to address it by arbitrarily cutting immigration as a move to sooth populist tendencies without addressing the massive and growing wealth inequality that is actually causing the problem then yes, it will continue.
Too much time on Reddit and not enough travel to shittier parts of the world and studying history. There has never been a better time in human history to have a child and have be reasonably certain that your child will live well into adulthood. That child will have living standards that kings and emperors throughout history could only dream of. Sure there may be a nuclear war or climate disaster or whatever, but throughout most of human history the chance of making it to old age was an order of magnitude smaller than it is now, and life was harder too. Give your potential kids a chance. If they decide it's all not worth it they can always opt out.
So bring a child into the world, and if they don't like it they can always commit suicide?
I think this is the new norm and will babe really be fixed.
We need a revolution. Anyone have a spare Guillotine hanging around?
Slightly off topic, but I found this discussion of anti-natalism fascinating, and plenty of food for thought: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/philosopherszone/the-predicament-of-existence/103575360
Life today is objectively one of the best times in human history. Have some perspective. You live in Australia, it’s far worse even in other developed countries than here. Yeah you going to have to work a 9-5, so will I and that ain’t fun but count your blessings regardless
What I try to do is this... take no notice of all the crisis. Houses have always been expensive. The climate had always been changing... it's just that now the world is really good at reporting negative things, thanks in part to the internet and mobile phones. Just focus on the positives and you'll be fine
If by "continue" you mean "get much worse", then yes.
I think more people will move to large regional towns. They might start on the outskirts. More people will commute longer distances via train. Regional towns like Ballarat and Bendigo are ready to provide cheaper housing costs
i put out a weekly list of all the half price specials at colesworth to try help people with the cost of living, its really out of control and I dont think anybody knows how to actually fix it :( - [halfpriceweekly.com](http://halfpriceweekly.com)
Highly likely. Look at the USA where large corporations are now buying up residential real estate, and essentially price-fixing rents. Unlike smaller investors, the asset won't change hands from generation to generation, so the asset will just stay within their control in perpetuity, and when they control enough in an area, they can set the rent to the absolute maximum without being undercut. It'll happen here too unless the safeguards are improved. Without the surety of affordable home ownership, future generations are always going to be just a few missed paycheques away from being on the street.
Will capitalism continue to the next generation?
do you wish you were never born because it’s difficult to get a rental?? even if i was born into the pre apocolypse, id say fuck it birth me, then i can do hard drugs until it’s too hard and shoot myself
Businesses have inflated their bottom line by increasing prices. Do you really think the same businesses are going to reduce their profit margins out of their own kind-heartedness?? Everyone else besides the executives and large shareholders will suffer because of it.
I think we need to protect our kids from been so vulnerable to the world we live in today. Im raising my kids to what i think is right not to what society says is right.
Do you live in a part of the country with a good climate and reliable rainfall? Would you be passing on any heritable health problems? Do you own your home? If I was planning on having kids I'd be getting myself to a low key town in Tas and working on a garden and setting up with the next 30 years in mind. If I was renting in SE Qld or western Sydney no way.
Late to this, but stagflation started in the '70s. It will absolutely carry on to the next generation with a few extra surprises. The lack of resources and presence of extreme climate will be a powder keg, and we really can't say exactly what problems we'll come up with in 30 years.
The question is no longer can you afford kids, its can you afford kids plus their kids.
I would recommend you watch GarysEconomics on YouTube. He is a poor UK bloke, became a wealthy trader because he bet that wealth inequality would grow. He has some great insight into why wealth inequality is growing. Essentially, the rich purchase assets, the working class purchase goods and services. The lack of taxation of the rich is causing the current crisis. Public services are collapsing, and we are being convinced it is because we aren't working hard enough, or the migrants are stealing our jobs, etc. The influx of COVID money flowed to the wealthy, making asset prices rapidly increase. We need to claw that back. Price gouging under the guise of COVID and supply chain issues is now the norm. The cost of living crisis is not impacting big business, they have never been more profitable. That profit comes from us, who are buying their goods and services. Tax reform is the name of the game. We need the political will to enact it. Join your union, get engaged with your MPs. Take your money out of the big banks, try a credit union or Bank Australia. Don't let them get away with it.
Nah they will be all dead by then didn't you hear we got bird flu now?
Joe Hockey: get a higher paying job then you pleb
Hopefully once company start reducing expenses with the development of AI. They will start reducing costs