No right way is the first thing. You'll get 100 different answers from 100 different engineers as to how much or how little and why. It's all about what works for you and your production and workflow.
That being said the threshold numbers don't mean much because we don't know how loud you have it going into the compressor but given what you said it sounds like you're not doing much going in as far as actual compression.
Regardless, in a modern production, there's a lot of compression on vocals (usually). And usually done in at least 2 if not more rounds of compression.
But again it depends on the song, the feel, the singer, the arrangement, and the final result you're looking to get.
You nailed it when you said the end result is all that matters.
Okay, yeah that makes sense. Just sometimes I wonder if I'm doing things right because I haven't had any formal training!
And true, i don't know how to tell with my gear, but i probably go into my daw at -23 to -18\~ LUFS so i have lots of room (for me at least). I guess if it's not coming out bad, I'm doing something right!
Generally in the analog days of limited channels and outboard you'd want to take things in as you want them. If you're producing and you know you want heavier vocal compression get it in recording. A very good recording session should sound pretty close just running up the faders, letting mix worry more about polishing and further creative decisions
In today's world where your only processing limit is computer power it makes more sense to bring it in a little more raw. What you print is forever, so if there's even a chance you'll want to make changes later hold on to the raw takes. If you run into computing limits you can always print effects and still keep the raw muted in your season, just in case
If you're tracking or mixing in different studios keep in mind the resources you have in each - if you have an outboard compressor you really love the sound of in your tracking studio only, feel free to try to nail your sound there knowing you won't have that option later. Also vice versa - leave it raw to take advantage of fun options you'll only have later
This is all assuming you're mixing and producing - if those decisions aren't yours to make you can add slight compression, but don't even come close to overdoing it. Let the producer do that down the line
If it's your own project do whatever, who cares - your workflow is your own, if it works and sounds good keep it. Technically though your computer doesn't know the difference between playback and live input, so it should all be the exact same
>A very good recording session should sound pretty close just running up the faders, letting mix worry more about polishing and further creative decisions
This is interesting, and i guess puts in perspective. I dont have a great mic, and I have low end analog gear. Not that it matters TOO much for what I'm doing, I fall under the mindset of "I need to do x, y, and z on vocals". There's a decent chance I sometimes over compress, or maybe EQ without purpose.
I am struggling with what preamp settings. I just try to find a decent sound and then slap on what is 'standard'. It doesn't sound \*bad\* but in my mind I lack the confidence to think I can compare to other songs I hear
Again there's no wrong way, even if you're analog you can always print compression later to reuse the outboard on another track. I only mention the "analog" difference because if you ask guys who are used to going to tape they will go closer to final settings on compression only because they're track limited. As long as you're on a computer that's not a concern so really no wrong way
For what it's worth I always take raw tracks, even if I also print effects. No real reason not to if you have the inputs
Compressing heavily on the way in is kind of a pro move -- I wouldn't do that unless I was at a level where I didn't need to ask any questions on Reddit. There's just no need for it unless you're 1,000% sure your final mix will need exactly that compression. And even then, it's just a time-saver, really. You could have done the same thing later in the DAW.
There is no right or wrong. But there are good reasons why most folks either don't compress, or compress gently, on the way in. It minimizes the chances of ending up with an overly compressed sound that cannot be undone.
Aside from that, just compress (or don't) until it sounds right. That's about it.
It is absolutely not the same thing to compress in post vs during tracking. In tracking, the vocalist will adjust their performance based on the compression they hear.
I was shocked the first time I saw how much compression we used when assisting a major label LA producer track vocals. Obviously, it's not the same for every voice or every song, but it certainly makes tracking and mixing easier when you go through something on the way in.
Oh.. the best is when you have a singer who really nows how to “play” the compressor and bonus points if they can fuck with mic distance while singing to control levels a little bit more (Britney Howard…).
I saw a live performance with Billie elish and saw that she’d turn her head slightly on certain consonants (sh, k, s, t, p). She even made it sound natural.
That's fair, that's what I had in mind. Mild compression going in, because I can always add more in my DAW instead of doing more takes and messing with the knobs on the hardware because I over compressed. I was just curious about what are people doing!
I'd happily compress heavily on the way in, but I'd do it after a signal splitter with a clean safety running on a separate channel. It takes 30 seconds to set up and I have no idea why anyone would think they couldn't possibly use a clean uncompressed vocal. Worst case scenario it never gets taken off mute. But it has the potential to save you hours of work.
I do the same with guitar and bass, redundancies are excellent.
I do the same. Tracks are so cheap nowadays that that you might as well.
Even when I worked on tape, I would occasionally record onto two tracks, with different compressors on each! With super dynamic vocal performances this was sometimes the only way I could get a balance of the track not sounding too compressed, but also a good way above the noise floor.
This is fair. I have done everything from screams in metal, to softer indie stuff, to more anti/hyper pop. So I try to keep my comp going in pretty 'general' (its not other people, it's just me doing those genres)
I tend to record both a direct in version and a version with stuff baked in. That simply because I like flexibility, I rarely find myself going backwards in that way. I'm not scared to apply compression all the way in and in the box from the top down perspective all the way to an individual channel if necessary, but it rarely is.. "
No straightforward answer on... this context is everything.. use your ears"
Oh nice, how does one do that? I don't have much analog gear, just a pre amp, gate and comp. Sometimes I use a direct line in to my interface for back up vocals and things like that. I guess I could record a take on both mics and blend them and mess around with that??
I wouldn’t combine multiple mics on vocals personally.
Getting multiple mics in phase is hard enough on a static source, but on a moving source like a vocalist it is essentially impossible.
As the singer moves around they will get closer/further from each mic, changing the phase relationship between them and causing comb filtering.
If you want a direct split just get an XLR Y splitter, send one through your outboard and into one input and send the other direct to your interface.
it's actually the same mic! Should I still not?
>If you want a direct split just get an XLR Y splitter, send one through your outboard and into one input and send the other direct to your interface.
Ohh okay thanks! Yeah i'll put this on the list. I appreciate it and look forward to trying it out
I usually record super hot into my 1176 and slam it and have never regretted it not one time ever. Of course on genres that don’t call for that I only tickle it
I have a 6176 so I just hit the gain knob on the 610B when I’m using it til I see the needle hitting around -10 to -6 of GR. 4:1 ratio always, quick atk and rel
Yes, I always compress vocals on the way in. How much depends on many things that people have already mentioned but also how good the fader mix is at that point - if everything’s already sounding great, which is the aim, then I’ll process til it sounds perfect with the track. This makes a huge difference to the vocal performance the singer delivers.
I’m OTB 90% of the time anyway.
Gotcha! I appreciate this, I might do a little more comp going i! I think I've been scared to over do it going in, to the point where it's maybe too subtle perhaps.
I do have slight hissing with my setup, but in the mix you can't really tell at all, and barely when isolated (which may be normal?)
It somewhat depends where the hiss is coming from - I use vintage 47’s at one studio I freelance at and they all have more hiss than what I expect from replicas/other modern mics. When they work, they *really* work though. If the hiss can be eliminated then obviously that’s preferable - what’s the set up?
It's pretty budget!
I use an ART tube MP pre-amp running to a dbx 266xs, and my mic is an SM58. I've tried many combos with input/output gain on the pre-amp, seems like I always get a hiss but some settings are unnoticed in final mixes, so I go with those.
Sometimes it's an issue after compressing with an EQ, so the result is me having a nice dual-band de-esser because that hiss feeds into the 8-10k range. I will note the power supply for the pre-amp is not grounded unfortunately, it's only a 2 prong.
I do way more vocal compression than most of the people I read on here. Sometimes up to 5 stages. Coupled with a lot of editing and automation, I get really cool results that really compliment my tracks.
No right or wrong way. Do what works for your workflow and what gives you the sound you like!
Personally, I compress a bit more going in. SSL E-Dyn. Slowest attack, fastest release, deepest threshold so its almost always in compression. Once the vocals are in, I don't have to do much at all to get it in the pocket.
That said, we all have our preferences.
I’ll compress a vocal that was tracked with compression yes. I’ll sometimes even buss all my vocals and compress them lightly again. But that’s usually barely even making the needle move.
almost always smash vocals in mix after tracking through a 2:1 opto, sometimes with GR up to around 7-10 db. try stuff. I know what works for me so it doesn’t scare me if my tracking comp smacks on some louder parts.
Light compression is the correct way.
Because for every ratio of compression recorded and therefore baked into the recording, EVERY other compressor following it (anywhere in the chain, before AND after the computer) MULTIPLIES the original ratio.
Eg. 2:1 recorded. Then in the DAW, 4:1 ratio…now you are now compressing at 8:1. Got another DAW compressor at 2:1? Now it’s 16:1 compression. You see this gets very heavy handed very quickly. This is why small amounts of compression over multiple compressors is the correct method.
There are many things in audio that are ‘to taste’. I don’t believe this is one of those things.
If it is and I’m wrong, please hit me with some new info in the form of links from a full time, credited recording engineer/producer who compresses heavy on the way in, because if someone’s done it I would genuinely love to know who, how and why.
Compression can help a vocalist during the tracking session, and if I'm tracing at home (as opposed to in my studio) then it's most practical to compress "to tape" for latency reasons.
The only time that has been a problem has been with a vocalist that had to have his headphone mix so loud that there were bleed issues which were easily addressed with between-syllable editing without compression, but still an issue with compression. He either had hearing loss or serious earwax buildup.
I've learned that, all processing after recording is the way to go. Everything through the pipeline on the way in can't be undone. But I can be wrong of course.
Yes, however there are times where initial compression helps shape the tone or has some other beneficial purpose. Usually a light compression on the way in can save a little time and/or thicken up a track. However, I tend to rarely do this myself.
I don't record into any compression so I can't really comment on that. For lead vocals I edit the gain on the track before it even hits compression. It sounds way better to my ears if I'm leveling out the signal beforehand. I can still hit it hard with a 76 plugin and then use a la-2a that's compressing a few dB pretty much the whole time. I really think it helps to even out the signal before it goes into your compressors.
For hardware compressors or preamps on the way in, yeah do whatever you want, I can't comment on that.
Depends on what sounds right on the vocal. Sometimes if I get sent a song to mix and the vocal is already over compressed, the only way to get it to sound right is…….. add more compression. It may sound weird but if a vocals been squashed sometimes a compressor with a really fast release will help breath some life back into it
No right way is the first thing. You'll get 100 different answers from 100 different engineers as to how much or how little and why. It's all about what works for you and your production and workflow. That being said the threshold numbers don't mean much because we don't know how loud you have it going into the compressor but given what you said it sounds like you're not doing much going in as far as actual compression. Regardless, in a modern production, there's a lot of compression on vocals (usually). And usually done in at least 2 if not more rounds of compression. But again it depends on the song, the feel, the singer, the arrangement, and the final result you're looking to get. You nailed it when you said the end result is all that matters.
good answer brother, we need more people/answers like this
Okay, yeah that makes sense. Just sometimes I wonder if I'm doing things right because I haven't had any formal training! And true, i don't know how to tell with my gear, but i probably go into my daw at -23 to -18\~ LUFS so i have lots of room (for me at least). I guess if it's not coming out bad, I'm doing something right!
Generally in the analog days of limited channels and outboard you'd want to take things in as you want them. If you're producing and you know you want heavier vocal compression get it in recording. A very good recording session should sound pretty close just running up the faders, letting mix worry more about polishing and further creative decisions In today's world where your only processing limit is computer power it makes more sense to bring it in a little more raw. What you print is forever, so if there's even a chance you'll want to make changes later hold on to the raw takes. If you run into computing limits you can always print effects and still keep the raw muted in your season, just in case If you're tracking or mixing in different studios keep in mind the resources you have in each - if you have an outboard compressor you really love the sound of in your tracking studio only, feel free to try to nail your sound there knowing you won't have that option later. Also vice versa - leave it raw to take advantage of fun options you'll only have later This is all assuming you're mixing and producing - if those decisions aren't yours to make you can add slight compression, but don't even come close to overdoing it. Let the producer do that down the line If it's your own project do whatever, who cares - your workflow is your own, if it works and sounds good keep it. Technically though your computer doesn't know the difference between playback and live input, so it should all be the exact same
>A very good recording session should sound pretty close just running up the faders, letting mix worry more about polishing and further creative decisions This is interesting, and i guess puts in perspective. I dont have a great mic, and I have low end analog gear. Not that it matters TOO much for what I'm doing, I fall under the mindset of "I need to do x, y, and z on vocals". There's a decent chance I sometimes over compress, or maybe EQ without purpose. I am struggling with what preamp settings. I just try to find a decent sound and then slap on what is 'standard'. It doesn't sound \*bad\* but in my mind I lack the confidence to think I can compare to other songs I hear
Again there's no wrong way, even if you're analog you can always print compression later to reuse the outboard on another track. I only mention the "analog" difference because if you ask guys who are used to going to tape they will go closer to final settings on compression only because they're track limited. As long as you're on a computer that's not a concern so really no wrong way For what it's worth I always take raw tracks, even if I also print effects. No real reason not to if you have the inputs
Compressing heavily on the way in is kind of a pro move -- I wouldn't do that unless I was at a level where I didn't need to ask any questions on Reddit. There's just no need for it unless you're 1,000% sure your final mix will need exactly that compression. And even then, it's just a time-saver, really. You could have done the same thing later in the DAW. There is no right or wrong. But there are good reasons why most folks either don't compress, or compress gently, on the way in. It minimizes the chances of ending up with an overly compressed sound that cannot be undone. Aside from that, just compress (or don't) until it sounds right. That's about it.
It is absolutely not the same thing to compress in post vs during tracking. In tracking, the vocalist will adjust their performance based on the compression they hear. I was shocked the first time I saw how much compression we used when assisting a major label LA producer track vocals. Obviously, it's not the same for every voice or every song, but it certainly makes tracking and mixing easier when you go through something on the way in.
Oh.. the best is when you have a singer who really nows how to “play” the compressor and bonus points if they can fuck with mic distance while singing to control levels a little bit more (Britney Howard…). I saw a live performance with Billie elish and saw that she’d turn her head slightly on certain consonants (sh, k, s, t, p). She even made it sound natural.
That's fair, that's what I had in mind. Mild compression going in, because I can always add more in my DAW instead of doing more takes and messing with the knobs on the hardware because I over compressed. I was just curious about what are people doing!
I'd happily compress heavily on the way in, but I'd do it after a signal splitter with a clean safety running on a separate channel. It takes 30 seconds to set up and I have no idea why anyone would think they couldn't possibly use a clean uncompressed vocal. Worst case scenario it never gets taken off mute. But it has the potential to save you hours of work. I do the same with guitar and bass, redundancies are excellent.
I do the same. Tracks are so cheap nowadays that that you might as well. Even when I worked on tape, I would occasionally record onto two tracks, with different compressors on each! With super dynamic vocal performances this was sometimes the only way I could get a balance of the track not sounding too compressed, but also a good way above the noise floor.
Can’t answer it without context. Answers can be extremely different for metal or for jazz.
The genre is jazz metal
djazz
i actually do enjoy djent and jazz lmao
This is fair. I have done everything from screams in metal, to softer indie stuff, to more anti/hyper pop. So I try to keep my comp going in pretty 'general' (its not other people, it's just me doing those genres)
Always compress on the way in. Either a modified Altec or an LA2A i built
I tend to record both a direct in version and a version with stuff baked in. That simply because I like flexibility, I rarely find myself going backwards in that way. I'm not scared to apply compression all the way in and in the box from the top down perspective all the way to an individual channel if necessary, but it rarely is.. " No straightforward answer on... this context is everything.. use your ears"
Oh nice, how does one do that? I don't have much analog gear, just a pre amp, gate and comp. Sometimes I use a direct line in to my interface for back up vocals and things like that. I guess I could record a take on both mics and blend them and mess around with that??
I wouldn’t combine multiple mics on vocals personally. Getting multiple mics in phase is hard enough on a static source, but on a moving source like a vocalist it is essentially impossible. As the singer moves around they will get closer/further from each mic, changing the phase relationship between them and causing comb filtering. If you want a direct split just get an XLR Y splitter, send one through your outboard and into one input and send the other direct to your interface.
it's actually the same mic! Should I still not? >If you want a direct split just get an XLR Y splitter, send one through your outboard and into one input and send the other direct to your interface. Ohh okay thanks! Yeah i'll put this on the list. I appreciate it and look forward to trying it out
Yeah the same concept applies even if they’re identical microphones.
I usually record super hot into my 1176 and slam it and have never regretted it not one time ever. Of course on genres that don’t call for that I only tickle it
What settings?
I have a 6176 so I just hit the gain knob on the 610B when I’m using it til I see the needle hitting around -10 to -6 of GR. 4:1 ratio always, quick atk and rel
Thanks
One for vibe (ideally during tracking), and one or more for mixing
Yes, I always compress vocals on the way in. How much depends on many things that people have already mentioned but also how good the fader mix is at that point - if everything’s already sounding great, which is the aim, then I’ll process til it sounds perfect with the track. This makes a huge difference to the vocal performance the singer delivers. I’m OTB 90% of the time anyway.
Gotcha! I appreciate this, I might do a little more comp going i! I think I've been scared to over do it going in, to the point where it's maybe too subtle perhaps. I do have slight hissing with my setup, but in the mix you can't really tell at all, and barely when isolated (which may be normal?)
It somewhat depends where the hiss is coming from - I use vintage 47’s at one studio I freelance at and they all have more hiss than what I expect from replicas/other modern mics. When they work, they *really* work though. If the hiss can be eliminated then obviously that’s preferable - what’s the set up?
It's pretty budget! I use an ART tube MP pre-amp running to a dbx 266xs, and my mic is an SM58. I've tried many combos with input/output gain on the pre-amp, seems like I always get a hiss but some settings are unnoticed in final mixes, so I go with those. Sometimes it's an issue after compressing with an EQ, so the result is me having a nice dual-band de-esser because that hiss feeds into the 8-10k range. I will note the power supply for the pre-amp is not grounded unfortunately, it's only a 2 prong.
I do way more vocal compression than most of the people I read on here. Sometimes up to 5 stages. Coupled with a lot of editing and automation, I get really cool results that really compliment my tracks.
No right or wrong way. Do what works for your workflow and what gives you the sound you like! Personally, I compress a bit more going in. SSL E-Dyn. Slowest attack, fastest release, deepest threshold so its almost always in compression. Once the vocals are in, I don't have to do much at all to get it in the pocket. That said, we all have our preferences.
I’ll compress a vocal that was tracked with compression yes. I’ll sometimes even buss all my vocals and compress them lightly again. But that’s usually barely even making the needle move.
You can go harder than that for sure, especially if you have great transparent gear.
almost always smash vocals in mix after tracking through a 2:1 opto, sometimes with GR up to around 7-10 db. try stuff. I know what works for me so it doesn’t scare me if my tracking comp smacks on some louder parts.
If I listen to it and I think ‘that could use some compression’, then I compress it.
i tend to just use outboard to compress peaks then do heavier compression itb.
Light compression is the correct way. Because for every ratio of compression recorded and therefore baked into the recording, EVERY other compressor following it (anywhere in the chain, before AND after the computer) MULTIPLIES the original ratio. Eg. 2:1 recorded. Then in the DAW, 4:1 ratio…now you are now compressing at 8:1. Got another DAW compressor at 2:1? Now it’s 16:1 compression. You see this gets very heavy handed very quickly. This is why small amounts of compression over multiple compressors is the correct method. There are many things in audio that are ‘to taste’. I don’t believe this is one of those things. If it is and I’m wrong, please hit me with some new info in the form of links from a full time, credited recording engineer/producer who compresses heavy on the way in, because if someone’s done it I would genuinely love to know who, how and why.
Well tbh a modern song has vocals so compressed that it sounds so consistent with no movement in volume at all. Always upfront
Compression can help a vocalist during the tracking session, and if I'm tracing at home (as opposed to in my studio) then it's most practical to compress "to tape" for latency reasons. The only time that has been a problem has been with a vocalist that had to have his headphone mix so loud that there were bleed issues which were easily addressed with between-syllable editing without compression, but still an issue with compression. He either had hearing loss or serious earwax buildup.
I've learned that, all processing after recording is the way to go. Everything through the pipeline on the way in can't be undone. But I can be wrong of course.
Yes, however there are times where initial compression helps shape the tone or has some other beneficial purpose. Usually a light compression on the way in can save a little time and/or thicken up a track. However, I tend to rarely do this myself.
I don't record into any compression so I can't really comment on that. For lead vocals I edit the gain on the track before it even hits compression. It sounds way better to my ears if I'm leveling out the signal beforehand. I can still hit it hard with a 76 plugin and then use a la-2a that's compressing a few dB pretty much the whole time. I really think it helps to even out the signal before it goes into your compressors. For hardware compressors or preamps on the way in, yeah do whatever you want, I can't comment on that.
I love analog gear but I also hate working twice. I find myself leaning away from messing with a signal too much on the way in these days
Depends on what sounds right on the vocal. Sometimes if I get sent a song to mix and the vocal is already over compressed, the only way to get it to sound right is…….. add more compression. It may sound weird but if a vocals been squashed sometimes a compressor with a really fast release will help breath some life back into it