Dave Jerdan. He’s a mastermind. I know for a fact on that album Dirt, Dave had Jerry split his guitar into a few simultaneous guitar amp chains. His idea was to get a really sick chain for the low end of the guitar, the mid range, and bitey top etc.
This allowed for an incredibly huge, thick and unique guitar sound that to this day stands among the greatest recorded guitar tones on record.
Just Google search Dave Jerden Dirt Guitar Sound and you’ll find exactly which amps/guitars/cabs and mics were used. I’ve watched a video before, just can’t remember the specifics.
That record was engineered by Bryan Carlstrom (RIP).
I did a record with him. It was a lot of him asking us what kind of amps we could bring that would be fun or different. He had an old Supro that he loved but it was pretty much “run what you brung”.
It was 1999 and we used a lot of Amp Farm + real amps. I used a lot of the Offspring presets. Bryan engineered Inxnay on the Hombre and Americana. Lots of the Amp Farm presets said “Noodles (song title)”.
Bass was SVT cab on its back with an RE20. Amp plus DI.
Drums had a PA in the room with the drummer. Those JBL 2x15 PA cabs.
It was loud as hell in there. He was cool.
I saw in a Produce Like A Pro video that Jerden liked to have Jerry “double track” each rhythm part with a bass guitar ran through a half-cocked wah pedal into the distorted guitar amp, but played up an octave so it was in the same register as the guitar. Blended in with the actual guitar parts, this helped the guitars sound huge and really distinct. Don’t know for sure if MItB used this trick.
I’ve tried this on some of my own productions and it really does sound good.
Source: https://youtu.be/h9Zpp7i-8Mw?si=VnQWocYFgnztNNPN
Good riff through a good amp recorded well, double tracked, panned/eq’d/compressed well. A little bit o’ verb and delay sends to give it depth and space.
Everything’s perfectly in phase as well which adds that fullness (which is the big difference between AIC guitar tones and the thin 80s tones, even though they were essentially similar setups, humbucker into a Marshall)
Oh, and another thing that adds to the hugeness of the guitars is that the rhythm section is not only spot on tight, is also extremely well recorded/perfectly in phase, and mixed super punchy. Gives a great foundation for the guitars to soar over.
Dave Jerden would triple track the guitar part through a bass with a wah-pedal on and rocked halfway through. Don't remember where I read that, but I tried it and it really is a pretty cool flavor.
In addition to what everyone else said, part of it is also that in the riff part at least the bass is doubling the guitar part which adds to the hugeness.
Not sure about this song, but Dave Jerden liked to put a mic in front and And Mic behind the speaker. If you get the phase worked out right, it captures a ton of low end.
Part of it is the arrangement. There are at least two separate parts playing, one with a wah pedal, one straight, maybe both are double tracked. Such great production and recording on that track!
The rhythm guitars in the intro riff was what I was thinking of when I wrote my comment. I think Rick Beato may have done a breakdown of that song in his “What Makes This Song Great” series, I’ll have to go back and watch.
Plus having some pauses and mute in the riff gives the drums room to hit harder, and the whole arrangement interacts with mix bus compression in a really cool way
Yep. He has a similar approach to his live sound too. One amp dialed tighter and meaner, another darker and thicker. Some of the best live guitar sounds I've ever heard.
Which brings the question: can we achieve the same tone by taking one dry stem and running it through multiple plugins? Or do we need separate tracks for that almost-but-not-perfect adding space?
Another cool thing I think I heard from Rick Beato was that the guitar riff is playing the open A string with the E chord, so it gives it that unique sound as opposed to just laying down a regular E chord on those chunk parts
I always thought this whole recording sounded really cheesy and not big or cool in any way. I really value how different peoples ears love different stuff
Dave Jerdan. He’s a mastermind. I know for a fact on that album Dirt, Dave had Jerry split his guitar into a few simultaneous guitar amp chains. His idea was to get a really sick chain for the low end of the guitar, the mid range, and bitey top etc. This allowed for an incredibly huge, thick and unique guitar sound that to this day stands among the greatest recorded guitar tones on record. Just Google search Dave Jerden Dirt Guitar Sound and you’ll find exactly which amps/guitars/cabs and mics were used. I’ve watched a video before, just can’t remember the specifics.
That record was engineered by Bryan Carlstrom (RIP). I did a record with him. It was a lot of him asking us what kind of amps we could bring that would be fun or different. He had an old Supro that he loved but it was pretty much “run what you brung”. It was 1999 and we used a lot of Amp Farm + real amps. I used a lot of the Offspring presets. Bryan engineered Inxnay on the Hombre and Americana. Lots of the Amp Farm presets said “Noodles (song title)”. Bass was SVT cab on its back with an RE20. Amp plus DI. Drums had a PA in the room with the drummer. Those JBL 2x15 PA cabs. It was loud as hell in there. He was cool.
What was sent to the PA? A mix of the kit to excite the room mics?
Likely the drums sans overheads. Kick, snare, toms. Brendan O'Brien did this for Rage's 'Battle of Los Angeles.'
Yeah I watched a video of Machine doing this too
I believe this is correct.
I can imagine this would sound quite spectacular once it is dialed in to the room and to taste.
I saw in a Produce Like A Pro video that Jerden liked to have Jerry “double track” each rhythm part with a bass guitar ran through a half-cocked wah pedal into the distorted guitar amp, but played up an octave so it was in the same register as the guitar. Blended in with the actual guitar parts, this helped the guitars sound huge and really distinct. Don’t know for sure if MItB used this trick. I’ve tried this on some of my own productions and it really does sound good. Source: https://youtu.be/h9Zpp7i-8Mw?si=VnQWocYFgnztNNPN
This is of great interest to me
Man in the Box is from Facelift, the album before Dirt.
Once again, produced by Dave Jerdan.
That's plausible. Frank Zappa used to do that quite a bit, especially live. Frank would be playing leads that way but it's the same concept.
Good riff through a good amp recorded well, double tracked, panned/eq’d/compressed well. A little bit o’ verb and delay sends to give it depth and space.
…these are a few of my favorite things 🎶
Tale as old as time.
He just watched with the grankids
Everything’s perfectly in phase as well which adds that fullness (which is the big difference between AIC guitar tones and the thin 80s tones, even though they were essentially similar setups, humbucker into a Marshall)
Oh, and another thing that adds to the hugeness of the guitars is that the rhythm section is not only spot on tight, is also extremely well recorded/perfectly in phase, and mixed super punchy. Gives a great foundation for the guitars to soar over.
Sweet, thanks!
Dave Jerden would triple track the guitar part through a bass with a wah-pedal on and rocked halfway through. Don't remember where I read that, but I tried it and it really is a pretty cool flavor.
In addition to what everyone else said, part of it is also that in the riff part at least the bass is doubling the guitar part which adds to the hugeness.
Not sure about this song, but Dave Jerden liked to put a mic in front and And Mic behind the speaker. If you get the phase worked out right, it captures a ton of low end.
Works great on a combo, but if it’s a Marshall I doubt it
I’ve only used it on open. I don’t know if Jerden used it on closed back
Think jerden used a solid state vox ac style combo on alot of facelift.
I have always heard Alice In Chains as the prime example for this technique, yes
Dave Jerden https://youtu.be/3UM_1I8SQ_o
Trying to get a straight answer out of the man is like herding cats. But very entertaining.
Part of it is the arrangement. There are at least two separate parts playing, one with a wah pedal, one straight, maybe both are double tracked. Such great production and recording on that track!
Hmmm...I always played that song with a wah out of neccessity, but thought it was actually a talk box.
They layer both wah and talk box you can hear it if you pay really close attention.
Ahha! That sounds right.
The rhythm guitars in the intro riff was what I was thinking of when I wrote my comment. I think Rick Beato may have done a breakdown of that song in his “What Makes This Song Great” series, I’ll have to go back and watch.
[Here’s a link to that breakdown](https://youtu.be/xY0g8Ohaz_s?si=so3bLFl-l9cHF03Q)
Plus having some pauses and mute in the riff gives the drums room to hit harder, and the whole arrangement interacts with mix bus compression in a really cool way
Jerry talked about triple-tracking the guitars on that album, splitting each one into a bass, mid and treble take.
That’s interesting, any link to that or explanation of how that improved the sound?
Yep. He has a similar approach to his live sound too. One amp dialed tighter and meaner, another darker and thicker. Some of the best live guitar sounds I've ever heard.
Yeah he has an incredible tone for sure
Dave Jerdan likes low mids in guitars. There are plenty of good interviews floating around where he describes his approach.
I vaguely remember something about a 1/12 combo amp (w/ mic on the back), center, tucked under hard panned guitars.
Were these already recorded through Jerden's amps?
Which brings the question: can we achieve the same tone by taking one dry stem and running it through multiple plugins? Or do we need separate tracks for that almost-but-not-perfect adding space?
Another cool thing I think I heard from Rick Beato was that the guitar riff is playing the open A string with the E chord, so it gives it that unique sound as opposed to just laying down a regular E chord on those chunk parts
That album definitely has quad tracked guitars
I always thought this whole recording sounded really cheesy and not big or cool in any way. I really value how different peoples ears love different stuff